#beta troll opinions

[sorrelpaws]

a fully completed troll lineup where all the trolls are fully rendered and drawn all together

[cautionszz]

favorite gouys! idk why i never posted this

[yew-yew]

at first i’m like “woaaah, i love alpha Dave so much”, and then i’m like “WoAHhhh, i love idea of Dave good parent figure(or big bro, idk) for Dirk”, and then i’m like “WOAAAHH, i love ancestors vers of beta trolls so fcking mush”, and here we are, another wierdo au

dave talks about dirk like…a lot.

and, Sollux, i love this man. he stuck with little strider-lalond nerds. o7 for my man

i my opinion he’s fashion diva (change my mind, his vibe is Fashion-Lady Gaga)

i think u’ve already noticed, i really like REALLY TALL ADULT TROLLS, THO-

just imagine how short dave look when stay near sollux. and he 6’3 in my head. (karkat 7’2, sollux 8’0, dirk 5’3(just kiddo😔))

p.s. i can’t take pictures for shit

p.p.s. i have more in my head. 🤨.

[relaxxattack]

Jade content?? 👀

obligatory This Is Just My Personal Opinion Warning (i love hiveswap and its writers so much and anyone who gives me any alternian lore) 📢

it’s partially the fact that there is a lot of jade content, but it’s also mostly the fact that i don’t particularly like how hiveswap portrays the jade caste in general. i’ve posted about it before but i don’t personally agree with the idea that jades would be tasked to “take care” of grubs, or that jadebloods such as bronya would be promoted to leaderly positions, when the in-comic lore about that caste dictates that motherly instincts are actually incredibly rare for them, and that trolls who attempt to “take care” of grubs the way bronya was — aka the dolorosa — were kicked out of the caverns.

honestly though this is just my personal opinion, because in-comic they never really go super in depth to what living in the caverns is truly like (because kanaya is unique and weird) (kanaya being unique and weird is also a reason i really think most jades would not be motherly but i digress) but i tend to be of the opinion that the beta trolls are actually strange and outcasts for their society, much like the beta kids.

i also usually tend to be of the opinion that jadebloods need to be much more apathetic than motherly, considering they’re the ones that are committing all of the eugenics, culling the mutants, and putting the babies through the trials so that they can potentially be accepted by their lusii?? again that’s just me though

ALSO. jades are supposed to be rare as fuck and mostly trapped in the caverns? so like it’s crazy that we met not only one Entire cloister in hiveswap act 2, but were apparently going to see more background jades at the mall and stuff? like i get that they probably Snuck Out but like holy shit. thats so fucking many jades we have met SO many jades compared to the other castes when they are supposed to be not only the least populous caste but LOCKED UNDERGROUND…

generally hiveswap tends to go with the notion that all of the beta trolls are fully representative of the roles of their caste rather than the idea that they are funny little weirdos, and i like to take the opposite approach so yeah :]

[nekropsii]

Today's Hot Take: Calling the Alpha Trolls "The Dancestors" is fundamentally the same thing as calling Wayward Vagabond "The Mayor".

You are theoretically referring to the same characters, except you really aren't, actually. It signals to people that actually really care about those characters that you're operating under a heavily lacking understanding of them, which is most likely deeply entrenched in fanon, or otherwise informed by a very skewed, tainted lens- such as getting all your opinions uncritically from other people, or judging the worth of characters by their proximity to the Beta Kids, Beta Trolls, and Alpha Kids. It's a red flag.

Also, almost every main character in Homestuck is someone's Dancestor, that's the fucking point of the term. The Beta Trolls are the Dancestors of the Alpha Trolls. The Kids are each other's Dancestors. It's one of the most clearly defined things in the comic- it just means "Someone who is simultaneously your Descendant and Ancestor by means of a Scratch". Dirk is Dave's Dancestor and vice versa. Kanaya is Porrim's Dancestor and vice versa. This is not difficult to understand, the exact definition is explained in the Openbound... Which is why I'll take everyone who calls the Alpha Trolls "The Dancestors" as people who haven't actually read the damn Openbounds and am henceforth discounting their opinion.

[ozuzo]

Ultimate Homestuck ask game! (100 questions)

1. When did you start reading Homestuck?

2. What made you want to check it out?

3. Had you heard about Homestuck prior to reading it?

4. What does Homestuck mean to you?

5. Has Homestuck influenced you in any way?

6. What's your fondest Homestuck memory?

7. Have you meet friends through Homestuck?

8. How long did it take you to read Homestuck? Have you read it in its entirety?

9. Fave character? (overall)

10. Least fave character? (overall)

11. Fave "problematic" character?

12.  Fave beta kid?

13. Fave alpha kid?

14. Fave beta troll?

15. Fave dancestor?

16. Fave ancestor?

17. Fave guardian?

18. Fave carapacian?

19. Fave cherub?

20. Fave sprite?

21. A character you'd be friends with?

22. A character you wouldn't be friends with?

23. Fave quirk?

24. Least fave quirk?

25. Fave pesterlog?

26. Fave flash?

27. Fave song/songs?

28. Fave fan song?

29. Fave Broadway Homestuck song?

30. Fave lyricstuck?

31. Fave Homestuck AU?

32. Are there any non Homestuck songs that make you think about Homestuck?

33. Fave fanfic?

34. Fave Homestuck writer/fan artist?

35. Fave ship? (alternatively: fave ship in each quadrant?)

36. Have you read any fan adventures?

37. Have you watched any Homestuck video essays?

38. Who's your patron troll? And do you identify with them in any way?

39. What characters are most like you?

40. If you do cosplay, which Homestuck characters have you done or would like to do?

41. Prospit or Derse?

42. Meat or Candy?

43.  The Felt or The Midnight Crew?

44. Beta kids or alpha kids?

45. Red team or Blue team?

46. Canon or fanon?

47. What's your classpect?

48. Do you like your god tier or would you modify it to better suit your taste?

49. If you were in Homestuck, what would your color and typing quirk be?

50. Your strife specibus?

51. If you have one, what's your chumhandle?

52. What character interactions would you have liked to see/see more of?

53. Do you have a kidsona or trollsona?

54. Have you ever made fan kids or fan trolls?

55. Do you have any Homestuck OCs?

56. What's THE Homestuck reference for you?

57. Quick! You gotta prototype your kernel sprite, what are you dropping in there?

58. Would you play SBURB?

59. Do you think you'd win SBURB?

60. Have you read The Epilogues?

61. Have you read/are you reading Homestuck^2?

62. Have you played Pesterquest?

63. Have you played Hiveswap?

64. Have you played Friendsim?

65. Have you read the Intermission?

66. Have you read Problem Sleuth?

67. Have you read Jailbreak?

68. Have you read Paradox Space?

69. Have you read any of Hussie's other works?

70. What's an aspect of Homestuck you feel you know more about than the average Homestuck fan?

71. What's an aspect of Homestuck you'd like to know more about?

72. What's something you like about the fandom?

73. What's something you dislike about the fandom?

74.  Would you recommend Homestuck to new readers/friends?

75. Do you have any Homestuck memorabilia/merch? (official or not?)

76. A hot take or hill you'd gladly die on?

77. What are your popular opinions?

78. What are your unpopular opinions?

79. If you could canonize one thing and one thing only, what would it be?

80. If you could uncanonize one thing and one thing only, what would it be?

81. Are there any panels you particularly remember or enjoy?

82. Is there any character you like aesthetically, but not personality wise?

83. Is there any character who's grown on you over time?

84. Is there a ship you don't particularly like/straight up hate?

85. Do you have any crackships or rare ships?

86. Any headcanons you'd like to share?

87. Do you have any voice claims for the cast?

88. Did you find any part of Homestuck boring?

89. If you're a creative, do you have any Homestuck related projects?

90. Do you celebrate 413?

91. Do you remember the characters' birthdays?

92. What's your favourite art style within Homestuck?

93.  Karkalicious definition?

94.  Has Homestuck influenced what you look for in fiction?

95. What's a non Homestuck thing that you think has strong Homestuck vibes?

96. Others could clock you as Homestuck fan because [blank].

97. You recognise fellow Homestuck fans because [blank].

98. What's your extended zodiac sign?

99. How normal are you about Homestuck?

100. Will Homestuck stay somewhere inside you forever and ever wherever you go?

[propheticclown]

HOMESTUCK CHARACTERS AS D&D CLASSES

I've wanted to do something like this for a while. Please let me know if you agree with my takes, and if you think differently, let me know! I love discussion! This is only going to cover the human characters for now. Let me know if you want to me to do the trolls too! BETA KIDS

John Egbert: I feel like John, as a Heir of Breath would be a Sorcerer with the Storm Sorcery bloodline.

Rose Lalonde: Rose, in my opinion, would be a Wizard. A Divination Wizard to exact, maybe Necromancer when she goes Grimdark.

Dave Strider: Dave would most likely be an Echo Knight Fighter. That was really the best thing I could find for a Knight of Time like Dave.

Jade Harley: Jade is kind of a weird case, despite being a Witch of Space, I don't think she'd be a Wizard. I think the best-suited class for her would be a Sorcerer with Lunar Sorcery. ALPHA KIDS

Jane Crocker: Jane is undeniably a Life Cleric. I feel like that just perfectly fits.

Jake English: Jake, as a Page of Hope, fits an Oath of Ancients Paladin the best.

Roxy Lalonde: Now Roxy actually took me a while to try and figure out. It was in between Wizard and Rogue, but in the end, Rogue won out. Specifically speaking, I believe Roxy would be an Arcane Trickster, however, if you think Roxy would be a Wizard, she'd most likely be the Illusionist subclass.

Dirk Strider: Like with Roxy, Dirk took me a while. Even now, I'm not entirely sure if my take is the best for Dirk. But I think an Oath of Vengeance Paladin would suit him quite well. Other classes I considered were College of Blades Bard and Phantom Rogue. Thank you for reading, once again, if you'd like me to do the trolls, let me know!

[cgtg]

Do you have an opinion on all the beta trolls? Or dancestorssss

hmm, i havent gotten 2 the dancestors yet on my reread (srry 2 da other person that asked abt them, i was saving the ask til i got there but ive been slow reading lately...)

this is probably all stuff other ppl have said before but its my opinion & im just living my reality here ok

thank u for asking :J

i think the dancestors r a perfect example of how hussie's character-creating method of "lampoon on an annoying/weird internet archetype" can fall completely flat. i really do not like any of them, and the ones i don't actively dislike i feel nothing about.

i think part of its jusdt that i always got the sense that hussie also did'nt give a shit about any of them beyond making the jokes he wanted to make (aside from meenah and aranea, who i also just really didnt care about anyways haha). pretty much every homestuck character is about making a joke, but the best characters all get the breathing room to develop *actual* personalities and value beyond watever theyre icons of yk?

so incidentally the worst of the beta trolls tend to be the ones where hussie just didnt, for watevr reason they had, explore them in a meaningful or earnest way.

its fine to have charzcters that are just made to do a bit, & its beyond fine that not every character is as fleshed out as the others, i think that woul;dve officially caused hussie 2 go off da deep end. hahah. but yeah i just couldnt get myself 2 give a shit about them if i tried at all. & im not even getting into the shit they're actually harping on & how that affects my view of them (read: badly)

these opinions will prbly change/develop whenever i get to that point in the story again, but i rly doubt ill feel more than "nothing" abt any of those dancestors

[lolliepops-rox]

It's very interesting to me, as a newer Homestuck fan, to see all the extensions for the offical-unoffical archives that 'fix'/remove 'problems' or 'problematic' parts of Homestuck. I was on Tumblr when Homestuck was at its peak and reblogged all the cute ship art, follow the outrageous ask blogs, my best friend did read it as it was still coming out¹. But I never actually read the comic itself, just kind waves from the sidelines. But I wasn't there to experience the big controversies in real time (i.e. 'peachy'). Hussie is not above critique, but I don't think he's a bigot or even a bad person. What he is, is a troll. A classic 2006 'I said something fucked up not because I believed it, but to get a reaction.' Which, I can see to someone who missed that time of the internet, and only knows now. In which people say those fucked up things, to get a reaction and cause they believe it.

And so to see people younger than me, but have joined the fandom at the same time as me, not understand this context, it feels wrong. The things people are willing to sweep under the rug cause it conflicts with their morals vs the things they condemn and blame Hussie for.

Homestuck is a very long, very complicated, but very important piece of art. To not consider every facet of it does it a disservice.

For something made by a 2006 troll, it put a lot of queer characters worth caring about in it. The alpha kids & trolls both exist to be parodies of their beta counterparts. This is partly why Dirk is queer, and that Dirk refuses a label. But is still allowed to opening like, then date, then break up with a boy. It's a response to how the fandom wrote & treated Dave. For those who know it, compare the S19Ep6 of South Park, Tweek X Craig. Matt & Trey, who in my opinion embody the same sort of troll sense of humour Hussie has, handle fandom making their characters being gay quite differently. Tweek & Craig in this EP aren't treated as genuinely queer characters, but the kids trapped in what the town has decided are wacky hijinks of this week. It's not necessarily bad, but compared to Dirk it feels way less genuine.

There's topics I can't talk on fully like the way Hussie's racial biases appear in various characters, as I'm from a completely different country. But in my very non-american opinion, it reads more as 'someone who has never thought to question the stereotypes they were raised with', than as someone who is genuinely and actively racist. There is a difference, and as a mixed kid that's important to me.

I'm not really sure how physically disabled people feel about the way Hussie wrote their physically disabled characters (but if people have written about this I'd love to read and linked to me) but he definitely uses mental disabilities/illnesses as a substitute for the word 'quirky' without thinking much about it (i.e. Nepeta is off-handedly called autistic) it's not really great, but the bar is so low when it comes to these things that my tourettic ass cling to Mituna like a lifeline.

Maybe I had a further point here. Maybe my point was just antis in the Homestuck fandom is still weird to me when there's canon incest. Maybe I've drunk a fair bit of vodka while writing this. I have work in the morning. Good night beloved tumblrinas.

¹she gave me classpect and everything, and it's the one I use to this day, despite having a completely different theory on how classpects work. I also joined a cosplay ask blog despite never reading Homestuck (at the time) cos she asked me to (simp) and bought black lipstick to do AMom.

[lesboygamzee]

who’s the most normal dancestor iyo (in your opinion)

obligatory nerd emoji esque Dancestor refers to all trolls and was first coined in the comic as a word for the beta trolls . however i understand what you mean

porrim is literally just some girl good for her . shes very cool but like shes normal . shes on tumblr shes at your coffee shop shes the tescos cashier that clearly had to take her piercings out 2 hpurs ago you can go and find her walking down the street i wouldnt be surprised . outside of being a vampire of course . shes very down to earth i think thats why im very attached to her shes just a cool lady i could probably meet irl shes lirerally normal

rufioh is also ' normal ' in the way that theres thousands of men who are horrible to their girlfriends and then start yapping about theur crazy ex and hitting on teenagers but i dont like to think about that . + i dont like to think of that as normalcy even if its very common

[what-is-your-plan-today]

Just so you know, if you’re subscribing to the whole “publicity” thing, going out there to troll or trash Alba, or just generally being a bit of an idiot about him or her, then I’m blocking and unfollowing.

Not because I care, but I DON’T.

I don’t believe it’s publicity. I really don’t. And I think anyone who does is just delusional and desperately wishing for some strange reason he was still single. But that’s my opinion. You are, of course, entitled to yours. Just as I am entitled to not want to read or see it.

And FYI, whilst we’re at it, writing untruths whilst they’re presented as facts (such as things about no leaves being green this time of year- news flash, THEY ARE… or comments about how she Alba possibly be in the country/state due to Visas. Again, BULLSHIT, trust me, I’ve had enough experience with visas for the US to last me a lifetime) is really fucking sad and dangerous.

You parasocial fucks are the reason the majority of us normal guys are now not seeing much of him at all. He said his break from SM was for the summer, I’ll be surprised if he ever comes back at all. So yeah, nice work, morons.

I find it all gross and just a bit strange to be honest. But what I find more gross is how now these people are going for him and her and their looks and how they’re both “gross” and “ugly”, how he’s “losing his looks”, “looks haggard,” “ageing rapidly,” and that she’s a “plain Jane…” bla bla bla. That’s disgusting. And I hope when you finally grow the fuck up, you really understand how shameful that is.

The marriage might last. It might not. But I really think you all need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

This fandom is toxic. And I want nothing to do with that shit. My writing blog is going on indefinite hiatus. The only stuff you’ll see coming from me will be what I’m beta reading or contributing too with my writing partner. I’m out, and need well away from this crazy.

[ryunumber]

Possible correction on Joey Claire (and generally anything that goes through Homestuck): One of the flash games, don't remember which, has an Earthbound character cameo if you press Ctrl+T, which gets to Ryu in one less link

Hair-splitting over using a free yet official work when a route with a commercial work exists aside (see Owata for more), all routes for Homestuck characters go through Terezi or Jane via Namco High, who both already have a 2, and since Alterniabound only has the beta trolls (and John?), it doesn't actually shorten any existing route except one.

I'm currently of the opinion that it reads slightly better as an alternate route rather than an outright replacement, but regardless, thank you for the correction!

[trademarkblue]

any advice for people starting to write fanfics?

Don't overthink it! x

My first posted TMBlue fic was in Harry Potter fandom (Ron/Hermione), and it was flat out rejected by the website that hosted fic for that particular couple at the time (Checkmated). A beta for that site contacted me after the rejection, and they wanted to change 75% of my words, so I ghosted them and bailed on that site, and I ended up posting on fanfiction.net instead.

The thing is... we need to have our own voices. I love reading what people have to say from all different corners of the universe when I'm trying to immerse myself in fanfiction. Your voice is important and beautiful! Embrace that you might feel like "you could have done better" if you go back and read what you've written in 5 years. That's okay! I guarantee you that you still brought joy to the people who read it at the time (and to the people who are just discovering their fandom), and you grew as a person and as a writer while doing so.

In my limited opinion, posting fic for strangers to read online has been a more personally fulfilling thing than a college writing degree could hope to achieve. Interacting with a community of (mostly) enthusiastic, supportive people is just magical.

The only negative is that you will almost certainly encounter trolls at some point in time who want to tear you down. They might criticize your phrasing, your characterization, or any number of other things without actually caring about you as a person. It's shitty and honestly deflating. And I'm not someone who doesn't welcome constructive comments from caring people who actually know me and want to promote positivity. But you can start to clock that distinction, and it's best to just ignore them and keep doing you. I promise you that the support will be worth it.

And if you're writing in Osblaine fandom, I would be beyond thrilled to read anything you're working on before you post it to encourage you further.

You've got this!! xx

[nekropsii]

🔥 <- Beta trolls as a friendgroup

[For the Unpopular Opinion Ask Game!!]

Okay, this isn't an opinion, this is a cry for help. No one talks about the Beta Trolls as a friend group and it makes me mad. Forcing everyone to stop talking about 13 year old children kissing for five seconds. Think about the friendships. No, Meowrails does not count, that's a Romantic Relationship. Think about Vriska and Equius. Think about Kanaya and Feferi. Think about Karkat and Eridan. Do not romantically entangle them when thinking about these friendships, I swear to god. Just consider the relationships they have with each other in canon. Think about friendship. Please. It is not lesser to romance. For the love of god.

The friendships are literally what make Homestuck Homestuck, and yet they're so deeply, deeply neglected by the fandom. Just stab me in the eye already.

[davekat-sucks]

why did you reblog aussievriskas post with her horrible fucking opinion? shes being sarcastic and making fun of you. also im fucking tired of seeing those sexist dave fangirls dickriders on my dash

i will say this though i do find it interesting how all we said is that dave should have shown some BARE MINIMUM EMPATHY to his SISTER ROSE and GIRLFRIEND TEREZI, and these fucking idiots just instead assumed we were expecting him to have a phd in psychology. shows these bitches dont get along with their families if they dont know whats basic sibling behavior.

Sorry about that. Yeah, didn't realize it. Is it not just common sense or just being human to show a bit of concern for someone? Especially one that was your closest friend from over online and the two were able to finally meet and face each other for the first time? Sure they have met as Dream Selves on Derse, but there is more weight when the two finally executed the plan to reach God Tier and can travel together on that meteor. And a consort troll who was willing to help despite her plan was to originally doomed the Beta Kids in the first place. Who actually gave the kids a chance to play the game and got to know Dave better as a person?

[555-95472]

so two different people have asked me about #18. Favorite Beta troll? and it was already getting long, so. here we go 🎉

i won't sugarcoat my garbage opinions here: its eridan fuckin' ampora. welcome to my ted talk on why i love this terrible idiot.

so for context. i read homestuck when i was 14 and it like 6-12 months before my egg would crack. i was starting to be drawn toward male characters in a way i had never before. and my favorite types of characters were (still are?) under-discussed secondary characters with big "i can fix him" energy. so, naturally, eridan really caught my eye.

i liked the contrast between his tactical skill and his interpersonal ineptitude. b/t being kinda badass and being truly pathetic. b/t his attitude of supremacy and his endlessly deep self-loathing. and, yes, i definitely woobified him Big Time back then.

now coming back to the fandom like 13 years later, i see something more? those contrasts still draw me, but now i think about him in terms 1. what it means to be Villain in homestuck (both in his actions and his beliefs), and 2. erisolsprite

since this became an Essay, im putting the rest below the cut

tldr: examining eridan as a villain shows that some Really interesting choices were made in his creation and show how effectively he fills his narrative role. while erisolsprite forcibly hands someone else's perspective to an endlessly self-centered character.

with regards to villainy, in 2011 we had a totally different perspective on timelines and doom and free will and shit? looking back. and its so clear that eridan Had to be what he was, both narratively and meta-narratively?

what got me thinking about it was actually kanaya's sylladex releasing the matriorb? her fetch modus only releases objects when its The Right Time. and The Right Time was for eridan to fucking destroy it. and i realized that shit would've probably been pretty fucked if they got to the condesce with the matriob (something she wants Badly) and feferi (the heiress she was meant to kill).

narratively, eridan was predestined to destroy the matriob, and had he done anything differently, it would have doomed them. and i know this is the case for literally every decision, but idk something about that perspective hits different for eridan, who acts on his worst impulses and almost never has a positive impact on anything

like, goddamn, his classpect is prince of hope, and his planet is wrath and angels. people talk about whether or not he fulfilled his mythical arc or whatever? but it seems like LOWAA was meant to push him to that place of furious tension and volatile fear. it needed to happen and his planet made it so.

(plus i think there's some really interesting post-canon au stuff to explore with eridan learning to redefine prince of hope from "i destroy with my conviction" (meaning "i kill with magic/science") to "i destroy my conviction" (meaning "i deconstruct the things i once considered my core beliefs"))

and meta-narratively, eridan is Useful and also pretty interesting? imo there needed to be some representation of what the expected hemocaste beliefs of alternia were like. specifically someone representing the intersection of hyperviolence and bigotry that forms that backbone of their culture. eridan, as a war-tactic-obsessed seadweller, does a really good job of that.

but what twists him into something more is his role as an orphaner. in homestuck, eridan is the voice of his society's most violent and genocidal beliefs, and he is uniquely placed in a position to enact them. but he doesn't.

if eridan's bigotry is thought about as a narrative necessity for the arcs of other trolls (♋, ♉, ♐, etc.), it becomes more clear that some really clever choices were made to show a complex version of that (while still not overshadowing how Terrible he is). eridan is meta-narratively given infinite opportunities to do unspeakable violence that he Does Not Take. which serves to both undermine how dangerous he is, and to call into question the depth of those beliefs.

and with all that in mind: holy shit erisolsprite. eridan joined in mind and memory with sollux, a powerfully psionic goldblood who grew up in the shadow of helmsmanship. erisolsprite is so united in their self-loathing that they find unshakable common ground (as opposed to sprite-sploding like others do). its arguably The most stable relationship we see eridan have and the most stable sprite made of 2 trolls, and thats so wonderfully fucked up.

for eridan specifically, who is almost defined by being self-centered, he suddenly has the full memory of growing as sollux, who lived his life in the shadow of his own doom and was endlessly willing to sacrifice himself for others. eridan is literally is shoved into sollux's shoes and given memories of every previous step, all while sollux is still wearing those same shoes.

and while being erisolsprite definitely Sucks Ass, i can't stop thinking about how much that would affect eridan (Positively) if he ever got out of the sprite. tbh im also curious what sollux would walk away from erisolsprite with, but thats a post for a different time. i could go on, but it would probably just turn into a fanfic about it

ok my eridan rant is over. i hope this made sense. thank you for coming. here's a little bonus lowres eridan 💚

(also i havent played pesterquest yet so idk anything about that. ive been meaning to but its dubiously canon so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)