#asoiaf fans are sometimes annoying

[pricklypear1997]

Y’all gotta stop shipping Arya with Jon and like half of Westeros… seriously. She’s a 12 year old child, and shows no interest in anyone except Gendry and even she’s unaware of that feeling lmao. The only other possible choices would probably be Edric Dayne, or maybe even Elmar Frey xD but she shows no interest in either… her love for Jon is purely platonic, I’m NOT sorry. Maybe in GRRM’s original outline it was different, but ngl, his original outline was TERRIBLE. No way I would’ve read that if that had been the story. I am so, so, so, tired of people mischaracterizing Arya… she’s a traumatized and depressed child who lost her parents.

Unlike Sansa, (I’m sorry Sansa stans, but I gotta compare the two), arya is not some cheesy hopeless romantic. As for her sexuality, well idk, she’s a freaking 12 year old, but you know what I’m certain of? She’s a young girl growing into a woman that lives in a society that’s constantly pressuring her to marry. She’s constantly threatened and harassed by men, but unlike some of the other female characters (cersei, Asha Greyjoy, etc) Arya isn’t the kind of person who’d use her body like that. She’s not gonna suddenly grow up and want to use what’s between her legs to control men, and she’s certainly not going to thirst for dick or she might die a virgin (GoT season 8, ep 2), and she’s literally traumatized out of her fucking mind while also being constantly dismissed as a woman. She ain’t gonna fuck some random dude and be like “Jk I don’t actually love you” or suddenly feel hot for her brother or whoever as soon as she returns to Westeros. Just because she befriended a group of prostitutes absolutely does NOT mean that she supports such an evil industry that uses women regardless, nor does she support certain attitudes regarding to sex that are NOT healthy. There is ample proof, that just because she’s friends to anyone who treats her with kindness, it does not mean she supports their life style. She got really angry when Ned Dayne alluded that her father might’ve slept with Ashara Dayne. Arya took great personal offense to that. She’s not just a Stark, nor just a Tully, she EMBODIES their beliefs. That includes honor. There is no honor in cheating, there is no honor in promiscuity, there is no honor in turning to purely sexual behavior without there being love. GRRM based Arya off of first and second wave feminists specifically. I genuinely believe that by today’s standards, Arya would be considered a “radical” feminist, simply because she is in strong opposition of “sexual positivity”. I think as a child, with deep trauma she’s most likely sex negative, which is why some fans of the series type her as asexual, but she’s a young and traumatized child. An issue that doesn’t seem to ever be addressed in the fandom is that literally most the female “sexuality” that’s displayed in the books, is actually exploitive in one way or another. GRRM was trying to point out how bad it was for women in the olden days, although the show misconstrued that and turned it into some kind of fetish… back to the books, what cersei does, she learned. She learned that by being a woman and a woman with a ton of influence, she can use her body as a way to control men… she herself was repeatedly raped by her own husband, but she realized that she can use her body to use men in any way she wants. She learned that men are weak and will do anything for a “crumb of pussy” basically. Asha, has been “promiscuous” and slept around with many men since she was 16 (or something like that according to AFFC), and she has no regard for other women and has that sick ironborn mentality that men should be allowed to rape women as they see fit. Arianne Martell literally wooed and used her sexuality to get Arys Oakheart to do her bidding and what it do in the end? It costed him his life. She cries and convinces herself that he actually loved her and that it wasn’t because of her sexual manipulation. The prostitutes that Arya befriends in Braavos… do you ever wonder why or how they do what they do? Most likely they’ve been trafficked or perhaps they figured out that they can get money and live a better life rather in slumming it out, because men will literally pay to use them… do you think Arya is genuinely supportive of pro sexual “feminism” and believes that women are somehow empowered by being sexualized by men? Absolutely NOT. So idk, maybe stop portraying Arya as some kind of bimbo. Maybe stop sexualizing her relationship with her freaking brother… IDC if he’s her biological cousin, there is nothing sexual about the relationship. And Arya ain’t going to rush back to Westeros just to dick ride some guy. That just isn’t Arya (neither is the complete asexual).

Ran out of writing space for that first block, but anyways, the only sensical and in character way that I could see Arya being in a relationship with someone else, that involves sexual intimacy, is if she is an adult (NOT A TEENAGER) who’s finally started to realize her feelings for someone (hopefully Gendry), and the relationship can finally start to grow, slowly. I think the other person would have to show his love for Arya too in a way where she feels honored and respected by this person. This person would have to tell Arya first that loves her. Arya is way too shut in when it comes to feelings revolving those things to even admit she likes someone in a romantic way. The other person should probably profess his love to her without being overly smothering about it, and without pressuring her. None of this out of the blue “oh yeah let’s fuck right now, especially from returning from Braavos” bullshit. 🙄 give Arya the time and the worthy love she deserves!

On another note; I forgot to mention that one of the other reason Cersei uses her sexuality against other men is to feel power and control, due to being raped, she wants that power back. Sometimes rape victims do choose promiscuity to reclaim their sexuality, some don’t. I doubt Arya would be in support of something like that either. It’s clearly unhealthy. No person whether healthy or wanting to be healthy, would support such a mindset.

Another argument to make;

Arya still fights to live. Arya doesn’t give up, and Arya surrenders to nobody. Even if she has to pretend to be obedient as Roose Bolton’s cupbearer, Arya, would never surrender to any circumstance. Arya fights what she believes in. She fights for herself, and her honor, she fights for her family and the common people, and last but NOT LEAST, WOMEN!! Arya does not hate women or womanhood in any shape or form! The show completely made that up. The media (television, Hollywood) has a hobby of showing “empowered females” by making them act like men and hate women… it’s everywhere. GoT did that with Arya, while of course making her all of a sudden a dominatrix who likes to use men for her own sexual pleasure too, completely opposite to book Arya and a mockery of Arya, women and female sexuality altogether in my opinion.

So enough with your stupid theories that arya will die, or lose herself and become some kind of emotionless assassin, or that she’ll return to Westeros and be the biggest slut in town (seriously wtf lmao), and enough with drawing Arya to make her look more like Catelyn and Sansa. She shares absolutely NO physical features to them.

STOP CHANGING ARYA STARK.

Also, I’ve noticed that a lot of you really do not respect GRRM’s work at all, so you try to change the characters and insert your funny politics into it… like some of y’all are seriously mad because Westeros is based off medieval European society??? GRRM is of European origin… like he’s gonna have better knowledge and a better understanding of that than any other group. Like for real, some of y’all are trying to turn this into LoTR: ROP (it’s not good let me tell you) instead of just making a mockery out of a series you clearly have no respect for, why not just create your own fantasy series where you can insert whatever kind of people and politics that you want. Idk. Why not, just represent yourself and your people instead of demanding it from others? Some of y’all are great writers and have potential, so maybe stop leaning on people who don’t even have the same life experience as you to speak for you. They’re not obligated too. They don’t owe you anything. GRRM doesn’t owe you or me anything. So just appreciate his crazy but amazing series or leave I guess. Antis are gonna anti, but there’s no point in even calling yourself a “fan” or saying that you’re interested in a series that you clearly don’t respect.

Anyway I’m getting off tangent here.

But TLDR; stop changing Arya Stark. STOP CHANGING HER. I see you 👀

[arellabella]

One thing that use to really annoy me about ASOIAF fandom was the insistence that Theon was the one who sacked Winterfell and this was and still is something that many believe.

It was absolutely astonishing to me because we know who sacked Winterfell, it is shown to us in Theon's last ACOK chapter. So why do many believe that Theon was the one who sacked Winterfell and not Ramsay?

It's not until recently I've figured out the answer, mostly because I'm older and wiser. There's a saying if you repeat a narrative long enough it becomes the "truth".

We might have seen what happened in ACOK and who is actually responsible for the sacking but we spend every book after that with the narrative that Theon was the one who sacked Winterfell and it's a narrative either believed and accepted by everyone or a narrative that has yet to be corrected. The only brief time we see it corrected was during Davos' chapters with Wex but not even Theon has yet to correct it. He has corrected the fact he didn't kill Bran and Rickon, though mostly to himself but not on the sacking.

To make the narrative even more believable from a reader's stand point is that no one that thinks to ask questions espeically those who knew Theon.

Jon doesn't think Theon would kill Bran or Rickon but he has no doubts about Theon burning Winterfell to the ground. The idea that might not be true has never crossed his mind like it does with the deaths of Bran and Rickon.

Robb doesn't question either and nor does Catelyn.

And I think this plays into the narrative being believed rather than the truth even if we have seen the truth with our own eyes. Because if even those who know Theon have no doubts about his guilt in the Sack of Winterfell then it must be true. Right? Afterall Robb, Jon and Catelyn are quite good judges of character and on top of that Theon has lived with them for 10 years so if they believe it then we have to believe it. Right?

Add on another layer that not everyone will read Theon's chapters twice either because they don't know his character, because they don't those chapters as important to the overarching story or even with Theon fans I know some will skip his ACOK chapters because they don't like him in those chapters but do his ADWD chapters.

So the real culprits who was behind the sacking are forgotten about through this constant false narrative that is repeating constantly in ASOS, AFFC and ADWD.

Repeating narratives can twist the truth and make people doubt what they saw with their own eyes or what they remember.

I really don't know if this was something GRRM has done on purpose but if he has it's absolute genius on his part because sometimes a narrative can become the "truth" if it's repeated.

[wander-wren]

sometimes i wonder about what fandom is going to look like in 5 or 10 years. i think we might have already started to see a shift.

because, look, most of the oldest, biggest fandoms are from tv shows and movies, in particular ones that go on for years and scores of episodes. star trek, star wars, stargate (is everything star?), doctor who, supernatural…even sherlock really got its biggest popularity boosts in the modern day from tv adaptations. marvel and dc were comics first, too, but movies made them more accessible; their “cinematic universe” tags are the biggest on ao3 by far.

but what tv shows are we getting now? short, 8-episode things that get canceled two or three seasons in, that are usually less-than-faithful adaptations of other media anyway.

what movies are we getting? well, marvel turns more to slop every day, and everything else is remakes and sequels no one asked for. the general populace will still go see them and find some good movies that they like, but there’s not much really for fandom to grasp onto.

the best shows for fandom that we’ve had recently, that i can think of, are stranger things, game of thrones, and maybe our flag means death. stranger things is dying off, especially since they’re looking at a 3-4 YEAR gap between s4 and s5. game of thrones’s popularity plummeted after its final season, we all know that. our flag means death is still chugging fairly okay, but after that second season a lot of the fandom dropped it, and with it now being cancelled, i don’t see it sticking around.

yes, we can chalk part of this up to a new generation to of fans having this growing idea that fandom is super temporary, to be abandoned as soon as its not on trend. but media used to be on trend for a whole lot longer than it is now. seasons were longer, we had filler episodes, things were lower quality sometimes but at least they came out on a consistent schedule. i don’t mind if supernatural isn’t an artistic masterpiece, but if i was a stranger things fan waiting until 2026 for the final season, i would be annoyed if it wasn’t damn near perfect. that’s assuming i watched it at all—we’re all so used to not getting endings and moving on, so why would i bother?

i think there are two types of shows doing sort of okay about this. one is procedurals—9-1-1 is a popular one i’ve run into, and it started in 2018, around the beginning of the decline, but it’s managed 7 seasons in those six years, most of them with 18 episodes. the other is, honestly, anime—though we can and SHOULD talk about the terrible working conditions that make the fast turnarounds there possible. look at how big some anime fandoms are.

judging by the relative fandom popularity of other procedural dramas (grey’s anatomy, law & order, criminal minds), i think that’s going to remain sort of niche. fandom likes fantasy and scifi best, and they just don’t tend to have as strong of an overarching arc to dig into. at least, that’s why i wouldn’t watch them. i think there’s also a good chance these will start to die out in the coming years as well.

anime could also die out a little bit. better working conditions would necessitate less/slower content, and it’s true that most of the popular anime fandoms have been around for years, even decades.

so, what, no new, lasting tv show or movie fandoms anymore?

what will the biggest fandoms be in 5-10 years?

podcast fandoms have a shot. the magnus archives is still going strong, and i’ve been seeing a lot about dungeons and daddies. i think we’re kind of almost past the golden age for podcasts, but i am an outsider, so maybe that will change.

book fandoms seem like a kind of obvious choice, but they just don’t get as big without, you guessed it, a movie or show adaptation. and the downsizing has hit them, too—can you think of anything from the last 5 or 10 years that rivals harry potter, percy jackson, warriors, lord of the rings, hunger games, acotar…even game of thrones (asoiaf) again? i can’t. the collapse of the publishing industry is another post entirely.

2020 is really what cemented these changes, though they were starting in the late 2010s, at least. with actual industries shutting down, there was room for indie creators making things alone in their houses to pop up, and people had more time on their hands to try new things out and get into them.

the two things that have really been on the rise since 2020 is rpf and video game fic—often both combined. we’ve got genshin impact, call of duty, minecraft of course being huge, rpf of various youtubers, and k-pop rpf. now, i think rpf is contentious enough that it won’t really become the main fandom, but video game fic…might be it.

even video blogging rpf can often be a blurred enough line that people are more comfortable with it. and the thing is…youtube creators are actually more reliable than mainstream television these days. they need to be, to maintain their platforms. they need to not cancel series and to live up to their own hype as best they can and to not abandon the channel for 3 or 4 years at a time. and again, you can talk about burnout and unrealistic expectations and all of those things, but it’s still true.

maybe i’m completely wrong. maybe in 10 years the film and publishing industries will all sort themselves out and we’ll go back to the status quo. but i think this position fandom is finding itself in is interesting, and i wouldn’t necessarily be surprised if what’s most popular (both in the specific source material sense and the medium/genre sense) is different some time down the road.

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Hi, fairly new fan of asoiaf here. What does the valyrianscrolls tag mean?

It's a tag that @joannalannister and I suggested some years ago that the ASOIAF fandom use as a whitelist to distinguish posts with book-only content. Because the #asoiaf and #a song of ice and fire tags regularly get flooded with show-related posts (which at the time -- between GOT S7 & S8 -- was incredibly annoying and getting worse every damn day), and because even #asoiafedit -- a tag meant for book-only edits, if sometimes using show footage -- also just became just another tag for show-only edits, sigh.

Mind you, with tumblr introducing their own tag blacklist system (which is very good) leading to a dramatic decrease in the use of blackist addons like Tumblr Savior (which has its own issues since its dev makes really bizarre options standard) and the deprecated New Xkit (Xkit Rewritten doesn't even have a blacklist feature), the use of whitelists has also decreased dramatically. But the ASOIAF fandom community on tumblr keeps on using the #valyrianscrolls tag for book-only content, which warms my heart every day.

[horizon-verizon]

So confused about how Dany fans are always the ones getting accused of being "deranged" when they're the only ones to consistently respond with actual book quotes and a level of analysis about reddit-brain. Look at the quotes/replies arguing with any anti-Dany or anti-Targ take and it's just people annoyed that the book is literally being ignored for headcanon, and backing up their arguments with evidence. But if you look at the opposite end... it often IS actually "deranged." And I don't get how the opposite has become almost a common understanding.

Part of it is the "tantrum-throwing", "hysterical" woman/femmes immediately slapped over the situation as:

it's almost always expected/obvious it's a woman/girl defending Dany vigorously, or bringing in quotes for why they absolutely/mostly disagree with what the other person is attempting to say abt the series/Dany/the Targs; then they will throw out anything you say bc you, to them, display irrationality from how "hot" and insistent you are being; sometimes it's vigorous and passionate; other times it is vitriolic -- any sort of passion from women/femmes CAN & OFTEN be distorted or misconstrued as them looking for a fight

for years, sexist ideas of Dany buoyed a lot of people's identities in online discourses and several forums (one of them, the ASoIaF wiki's forums, I've looked up some and sometimes come across stupid shit when I come across one of the wiki's "calculations") and will do a lot to not be publicly shamed into being confronted by said quotes; so they'll resist, avoid, and/or try to tunr the ish on Dany stans with the wider public's already generated disdain for Dany through GoT

Misogyny is rooted in derangement of the literal senses.

[pricklypear1997]

People shouldn’t even be making racebent characters to begin with… they’re just trying to insert themselves, and for some reason can’t seem to accept the fact that they might relate to a White character??? I also just find it disrespectful to try to change the canon material to your own liking. That doesn’t seem very respectful to the creator’s original intent. There’s literally no excuse or argument to make for race swapped characters. It’s over all just racist and stupid to one group or another. Why can’t people just create their own stories??? A lot of these people who do race bending think asoiaf is racist because it has “too many white people”… ummm it’s based off of medieval Europe… not 21st century USA. Martin is also white. It’s not his job to cater to anyone else in his stories. He can write about whatever race he wants, but it makes perfect sense that he’d write about white characters because he’s white, and his experience is that of a European American, therefore it would be easier for him to write about other white characters… do you just expect every other racial group to think about you, cater to you and write about you??? I think not… that would be weirdly obsessive, then again, most of the ASOIAF “fans” on tumblr are American and non white and just feel the need to shove their silly American race politics into everything. Granted there’s a lot of white fans too, who want to “please” every non white on tumblr by drawing non white characters, while also making it all the more racist. 🤦🏻‍♀️. Look, not every story has to have a diverse cast. It’s never been like that. If you want to feel represented, then go to your own culture and find those stories that you want. Make your own adaptation from said fairy tales and stories, stop trying to take away from another group (in this case white people) and honestly, just stop ruining the integrity of another person’s work. If you honestly feel the compulsion to change the race of a character, and to change major plots and entire character personalities (*ahem*: Arya stark) and plots, then this isn’t the right series for you. You clearly don’t respect it, nor like it. So just stop. Move on to something else. Better yet, find one of your more “contemporary” shows that’s full of all the American diversity you could possibly want… this is no different from Lord of the Rings; Rings of power. The people claim to be “fans” but literally claim how much of a sexist and a racist JRR Tolkien was, while completely altering the story and changing character personalities completely. It doesn’t even look like lord of the rings… looks like some messed up post apocalypse neo-feudalist reset of New York… like wtf??? It’s kinda funny too, because middle earth is based off of Europe and European folklore… that is the focus of the story… but there’s other countries and continents in the world of LotR, it’s just not the main focus. It’s the same with ASOIAF. I think there are some legitimate things that can be criticized when it comes to ASOIAF, but race is NOT it. Neither is sexism, but the show is incredibly sexist 100%. There’s another huge controversy besides race bending, and that’s giving characters gender identities and sex changes. :/ like that too needs to stop. Once again, you want a character that’s lgbt? Make your own stories. Besides ASOIAF has some lgbt in it already, not a lot, but that’s literally because WE ARE THE MINORITY. my fave gets race bent as some ambiguously dark skinned Asian/Native American , she gets misgendered as “they/them” or even as a trans boy, is written off as asexual or maybe bisexual, gets her personality and story arc completely rewritten by the fandom, gets shipped with like 12 other characters, despite showing zero interest (bro she’s 9-12 in the story), except maybe just a little for one particular character, is made to look a bit more like her older sister but with a darker complexion too despite looking NOTHING alike, is said to hate women, blah blah blah… I swear, most of the fans of this series, saw the show and loved everything about it.

But would literally change one thing, and that’s make all the characters “PoC”. As someone who is bisexual, and “mixed race” (3/4ths white Eastern European/Balkan and 1/4th Asian) I still relate to Arya 100% and I don’t feel the need to change her. I don’t want to change her. Just like I don’t want people to try to change me, or force their false perceptions onto me, which is something I’ve dealt with most of my life lol. I’ve dealt with the same kind of bullying and ostracizing that Arya went through. I suffer from PTSD and depression, same as Arya. This series has helped me accept myself as I am, through a character like Arya. So why would I want to change her? If you actually love this series, then stop trying to change it and it’s characters. Stop inserting your stupid racist and sexist obsessions and fetishizes into this story. I’m sooooo tired of it.

If Jon and Arya are POC compared to whites Catelyn, Sansa, Robb, Bran and Rickon as depicted in all the fanart, then Sansa is not only classist but really racist as well:

Why couldn’t Arya be sweet and delicate and kind, like Princess Myrcella? She would have liked a sister like that. It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard, like their half brother Jon. She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon’s mother had been common, or so people whispered. - Sansa, AGoT

Notice Sansa including Arya’s ‘coloring’ for why she dislikes Arya as her sister and instead wants Arya to be a low born bastard like Jon Snow? If you take this to mean Arya’s skin color and not hair color, then Sansa really is a racist bigot.

Keep that in mind when drawing your racist fanart.

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

You and @aifsaath hold a certain aversion to the Starks during the Dance from what I could understand in a previous post of yours, ( i’m so happy to find likeminded people!) and I’d really like to know your opinion! Cregan’s of no interest to me and the Starks as a whole annoy and bore me 😅

@aifsaath and I are certainly are not subtle about our thoughts on Cregan! I don't actually mind the Starks as a whole in the main series. They're not my favorites, but generally they're fine. I think the fanbase is too reductive about that house though, and people treat Cregan as another Ned when in fact they're very different characters. This might get long!

Ned is extremely reluctant to get involved with anything in the capital. It's one of his most redeeming qualities, to me, the lengths he goes to keep his family out of royal politics. Bobby B. has to show up on his doorstep and practically drag him out of the North, and he's doomed the moment he becomes Hand. His honor is also sometimes too rigid, and GRRM invites us to really think about how inflexible moral codes sometimes stand in the way of the greater good. There is also a whole through line in ASOIAF about oaths and the impossibility of upholding all oaths and simultaneously acting according to one's conscience. This all gets tossed out the window when it comes to how large swaths of this fandom view Cregan, however! Cregan sits out nearly the entire war, but gets willingly and gleefully involved at the end when the dragons are gone and the armies on both sides are pretty spent. Okay, he's harvesting or whatever, fair enough, but because he and Jeyne Arryn have sat out the entire war while the two sides were obliterating each other, doing sweet fuck all while their queen and her whole family died, they have fresh armies while everyone else is pretty much spent. Then they decide to roll up when the fighting is already done, bully and threaten all of these people who have lost their entire families in this war, all for the sake of putting a highly traumatized ten year old on the throne. Cregan made an oath by golly, and he's going to stick to it. And speaking of traumatized kids, "the Lads" are often read as being cool and badass but Benjicot Blackwood had been fighting in this war since he was eleven, and we know GRRM is not generally trying to glorify child soldiers in his work, so what's up? The Lads lost their fathers in this war, they're ready to make peace, then Cregan shows up and tells them they're pussies if they don't want to keep fighting (even after Aegon II is dead and Aegon III is king) because now he's got to invade the Reach for some fucking reason. Apparently the only person in the entire realm who hasn't had enough of war is Cregan and so everyone else should just go along with that (and I've seen the suggestion that he needed to cull his population but that's sounds like a Cregan problem not a realm problem). It's only Black Aly's promise to marry him if he stops that gets him to back off. This is not Nedlike behavior and it irritates me to no end that Cregan is considered another Ned, and that being a Stark means his actions automatically get painted with a patina of honor. That's not even getting into how he handles the poisoning of Aegon II (often held up as a sign of his honor), how Aegon III has to beg for the life of his sister's grandfather, how Cregan's interference creates a power vacuum that allows Aegon III to be isolated under a regency that should have, by rights, included at least one of his sisters, but instead, beyond Corlys (who is 80 at this point), is full of strangers who don't give a toss about him (one of whom is responsible for the murder of his wife), and completely ignore his wishes until he comes of age. So yeah, not a Cregan fan!

[pricklypear1997]

I have a genuine question for some of the people that make ASOIAF art, why do some of you draw Arya with features that resemble mixed Stark and Tully, despite the fact that she’s literally describe as having zero physical resemblance to her mother? Like, part of the reason she’s so self conscious is because she doesn’t have red hair, not even red-brown. It’s literally brown, a dark brown according to art that GRRM approved of officially. She doesn’t have freckles, and her eyes are dark grey, like Jon, and like Lyanna. Why do people wanna draw some future Arya being taller than sansa also? Why can’t Arya just be short? Is there something wrong with being short? Is Arya just not allowed to be herself? Why does it feel like everyone is trying to change Arya from who she really is and what she actually looks like? Even the show runners completely obliterated her personality since episode 1. Like wtf? Arya is 4’0” by age 10, she has dark brown hair, sad grey eyes and grim stark face. A 4’0” 10 year old isn’t going to grow up to be 5’7��-5-9” later on. That’s just unrealistic. She’s short. It’s part of what makes her, so distinctly Arya! Part of the reason she’s so self conscious is because of her appearance and the fact that she has zero resemblance to Sansa. I want Arya to grow as a character and to learn to love herself as who she is! Short and stark as ever! I want her to accept herself as she is, and I feel like the people who try to change her, to the point that she’s not even recognizable anymore, just do not appreciate as her as a character. At most she’d probably be 5’3”. Even 5’5” is a stretch. She’s like a tiny angry kitten with messy fur lol. I think it’s adorable and idk why some of y’all wanna change that so badly 😭

“She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face, or her coloring”.

As a 5’3” woman with 2 older sisters, and one younger, and a mother who are all taller than me ranging from 5’5” to 5’7”, I love the fact that I have a character I can relate to that looks different from her mom and sister and is also the short one of the family. It’s just so nice to have that lol, so yeah it’s definitely personal, and some people might find it silly, but yeah, I get mad when people try to draw Arya in a way that doesn’t even fit her description, physically wise, and personality wise. Like people do not respect her. It makes me sad honestly. Just like in the books, where people like her sister wishing Arya was different lol. Some of you are irl Sansas and it shows lmao. Let Arya be her short skinny little tomboy self who likes picking flowers and can make friends with literally anyone who’ll show her basic decency.

[darklinaforever]

So... something I absolutely need to talk about ; It's all the “ASOIAF” / “Fire and Blood” fans complaining about misogyny (especially for Laena, Nettles, or even Sansa, or Alicent from what I saw), but conveniently calling Rhaenyra by her nickname “Maegor with teats”, in the first degree.

A name, which I remind you, was given to it by the people, solely because it increased taxes. And why did she increase taxes ? Because the Greens have emptied all the coffers, leaving nothing behind. And being in the middle of a war, Rhaenyra had to find a solution to have money.

You're not telling me that this is comparable to all the atrocities that Maegor has committed ? If ?!

Even in terms of war crimes, the Greens did worse than the Blacks team. There was no equality between the two during that war !

This nickname simply reflects the fact that people will naturally be quicker to judge a sovereign woman, much more severely, than a male counterpart. So the existence of this nickname itself stems from misogyny.

So by using / endorsing this nickname, you are validating the misogyny done to the character of Rhaenyra. Quite simply.

Which is hypocritical, and that irritates me.

Even more so when these same people try to make people believe that the war / story of the dance is about Rhaenyra and Aegon II being two people who are not worthy of the throne and made a mess to still get it...

But no.

It's about Rhaenyra having her throne stolen, something plotted against her as soon as she was named heir as a child of 7 / 8 years old, simply because she is a woman !

I'm tired of people spitting on my queen for saying stupid things.

Obviously there are imbeciles who attack the characters of the books that I cited with misogynistic remarks, but Rhaenyra is also, sometimes moreover by the fans of these same characters who ironically complain of misogyny. And that's what annoys me.

You can't complain about misogyny towards the female characters you like, then denigrate a female character you don't like with misogynistic remarks or call her by a nickname that refers to the misogyny that this character is a victim of.

[thesandsofelsweyr]

20 Questions for Fic Writers!

TY for tagging me @zeroducks-2 😘 Passing to torch along to @blahwesome, @baesonjason, @niphredil-14, @scaryscarecrows, @mrsd-writes, @igotanidea, @artzysyam, @thejasonandsladeagenda (no pressure ofc!)

How many works do you have on AO3? 11 on SandsOfElsweyr, 2 on my other top secret account 👀

What’s your total A03 word count? 47,475

What fandoms do you write for? I've written fic for Dragon Age and Skyrim, but my only published fics are in the Jason Peter Todd fandom 😉

What are your top five fics by kudos? (Only including my SandsOfElsweyr fics)

✧ The Sus Boy Next Door (ao3) 229 Kudos ✧

After coming back from a terrible blind date your asshole neighbor is the last person you want to see right now. He doesn’t have his signature scowl for you tonight, however. Tonight he seems terrified.

✧ Hollowed Out (ao3) 194 Kudos ✧

When Jason saw that photo of Batman and his new Robin, the thin cord of hope holding him together had snapped and he had broken into a million pieces. No one was coming for him. Not one single person on the planet cared whether he lived or died, or how much he suffered, or how loud he screamed. No one except the Clown. He was Joker’s now, and he would say or do anything to get a reprieve from the torment and the pain, even if it meant letting himself be reduced to something less than human.

✧ Remember Jason Todd? (ao3) 114 Kudos ✧

Joker reminisces to Batman about one of the happiest years of his life: the year he spent breaking Jason Todd.

✧ The Wrong Cell (ao3) 96 Kudos ✧

When Harley comes to fetch Batman’s annoying little sidekick from his cell in Arkham Asylum she finds someone unexpected in his place.

✧ His (ao3) 82 Kudos ✧

Jason has been beaten half to death with a crowbar, shredded by barbed wire, strung up for so long his shoulders ripped from their sockets, shocked, starved, branded… It's only a wooden paddle, it can’t hurt more than any of the Clown’s other toys… right?

Do you respond to comments? Why or why not? I get behind sometimes but I try to reply to every comment I get. If you take the time to leave me a comment, I'll take the time to give you a reply! Fun fact: I love replying with reaction gifs, hehehe

What’s the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending? lol. Almost every fic I write has an angsty ending 😂 I suppose Hollowed Out (ao3) is the angstiest so far.

What’s the fic you wrote with the happiest ending? Touch (ao3) or Cocoon (ao3)

Do you get hate on your fic? I'm sure I do but I've thankfully never seen it!

Do you write smut? Yes. Badly 😂 But I'm learning! Practice makes perfect~

Do you write crossovers? Personally not a fan of crossovers 🙃

Have you ever had a fic stolen? Not that I know of

Have you ever had a fic translated? Nope

Have you ever co-written a fic? Nope

What‘s your all-time favourite ship? Probably SanSan (ASoIaF). Then there's Shakarian (Mass Effect), Surana x Alistair (Dragon Age), and AK Jay x my OC 💕 Also can't forget AK JokerJay and Thramsay (ASoIaF), muwahaha 😈

What’s the WIP you want to finish but doubt you ever will? I don't want to answer this and jinx myself!

What’s your writing strengths? Putting men through the ringer.

What’s your writing weaknesses? Overcoming my perfectionism 😪

Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language for a fic? I have to phone a friend!

First fandom you wrote for? Probably Mario? I've been writing for a looooooooong ass time, heh.

Favourite fic you’ve ever written? Hollowed Out (ao3) ❤️❤️❤️

[electricprincess96]

Apparently I am a "new" "fake" ASOIAF fan who "lacks media literacy" because I don't like Daemon's plotline this Season on HOTD.

God I hate the idea that if you don't like something that somehow makes you stupid.

I have read Fire and Blood, I loved Season 1, if anything I felt S1 was a bit rushed and would have given the younger actors all 1 season and then 1 season with the older actors before kicking off the actual war but HBO was never gonna do that cause that would have been 2 seasons of minimal actions due to there being no justifiable reason for there to be battles.

S2 has had more action sure but it's been as a result of some of the dumbest character decisions I've seen. Everyone is suddenly stupid in this world. Rhaenyra sneaking into King's Landing? Dumb as fuck. Daemon being peak paranoid but trusting Alys Rivers a clearly very sketchy woman who told him he was going to die here? No sorry that ain't how human interactions work.

We do not need a whole season of Daemon seeing ghosts just for him to realise he never wanted the Throne when I THOUGHT THAT WAS OBVIOUS LAST SEASON WHEN HE ON TWO SEPERATE OCCASIONS DELIBERATELY PLACED THE CROWN ON OTHER PEOPLES HEADS. And Daemon realising his guilt and regrets surrounding his treatment of Rhaenyra, Laena and Viserys could be interesting if it wasn't so clearly just filler. Like that's what it is. Also his guilt over him being a bad family man is annoying cause that only exists before they cut all of his good scenes last season with his kids so it's "character development" built on character regression THEY, THE WRITERS, did.

The plotline hasn't been engaging, it's been confusing cause sometimes it's obvious when its fake (ie. He wakes up from a dream) but other times it isnt and I now assume the scene with the Riverlords complaining to him was real the issue is he has completely ignored them since that episode so like..... i feel like thats a prettt important thing he should be dealing with but instead hes got to have his therapy session with Alys Rivers. If your "character development" scenes are making the plot seem unnatural or in some cases down right stupid, scrap it and start again cause there is literally a war going on and Daemon hasn't actually done something productive to the plot since Ep1.

And OK, yes, he'll fix it all in the next episode, he'll realise he doesn't want to he King, he'll rally the Riverlords and he'll fly back to Rhaenyra but ONE episode of actual plot progression does not justify the whole season of filler especially when the character development they're trying to justify it with does not make sense when I do not believe the Daemon we ended Season 1 with is the same one who entered Harrenhal this season and they had to deliberate regress his character to try and justify this plotline because they couldn't have Daemon's plot get too far ahead of the rest... Just have him in less episodes, you're allowed to do that.

The plotline is bad. Like if you're enjoying it great. I actually really like Alys Rivers, her actress is fantastic and she's got chemistry with Matt Smith (although not hard he can have chemistry with a mop and bucket) but the plot is just not good, and I'm allowed to say that without being called names for fuck sake.

[brydeswhale]

My Giant Anti-Jonsa Hate Post, AKA why a person might not ship Jonsa other than hating Sansa :P

I'm warning you ahead of time, this is mostly me rambling. I'm not smart. Lots of smart people you can read, go read them.

So, I've noticed this tendency amongst some Jonsa shippers to sort of dismiss any criticism as Sansa-hate. Sometimes they are actually correct, some people only read ASOIAF in order to see Jon as a typical hero and any female character as simply the reward Jon gets for being a hero, which is so weird. There is a similar feeling that the biggest reward a female character can get is Jon's dick, so, um, yeah.

Having said that, I have a lot of reasons not to ship Sansa with Jon outside of how my ego feeds into my reading. I have read pics with them as the pairing, tbh, if you're a Sansa fan you kind of get pulled into it just because it's so hard to find ANY fics where Sansa gets treated decently that I just treat Jon in those fics as an original character.

I will now list my non-jonsa feels, in no particular order.

I do not believe the text supports it.

A lot of smart people have dug through the text and pointed to what they believe are clues. I'm not going to go through all of these because some of them are, IMO, a reach so far that the proponents have hired a gibbon to do the reaching.

One of those that kind of makes me super perplexed is the whole Jonnel/Sansa thing. Shippers will point to that as some kind of sign that their ship will sail, but honestly, I do not think so. Or at least, I hope it's not a portent of Jonsa.

Jonnel Stark and his plot line with the original Sansa seem to have more in common with the modern story of Alys Karstark and her flight from her uncle and cousin, who attempted to usurp her claim to Karhold by forcibly marrying her.

That is to say, it's a dark, sad story, made all the worse by the fact that Sansa eventually died, and she and Jonnel never had issue. In fact, Jonnel didn't have kids with his second wife, either. Possibly divine punishment for usurping and marrying his niece, IMO.

Most of the other "Jonsa" foreshadowing, I'm sorry to say, seems similar to that, basically. Either it's a sort of retelling of a completely different event happening in the present, or it's a sort of a weird, long reach. Like the idea that the comet is meant to foreshadow Jonsa, which is, honestly, so weird it's laughable, or pointing to times that Jon has complimented Sansa's looks. Some people even try to fit the Bael the Bard story to Jonsa.

It doesn't seem to fit with the how the text treats incest, in my opinion.

Much is made of the show's revelation that Jon and Sansa, despite being raised as and considering each other siblings, are biologically cousins, what with the revelation that Rhaegar kidnapped a teenaged Lyanna Stark and murdered her through reproductive abuse. For a lot of people this makes the incestuous aspect of the text "not count"(which is annoying for other reasons I will discuss later).

I just don't think "they're actually cousins" really works here, either, though.

GRRM sort of seems to use incest as kind of a shorthand for corruption. The Targaryens are the main example, their inbreeding a symbol of their incapacity as humans, and Craster is a giant screaming red flag but there are other incestuous marriages that seem to operate as symbols for the people involved, most notably the elder Lannister and Stark marriages.

The marriage of Tywin Lannister is an interesting sort of backdrop for the Lannister family as a whole. Joanna is often regarded, in both fandom and the series itself, as a sort of softening influence, a better version of Cersei, the true queen of Casterly Rocks, whose relationship with Tywin was very normal and healthy.

However, when examining Tywin Lannister's serious case of narcissism, I find it very unlikely that he would be capable of anything resembling normal in a marriage. It seems likely to me that his love of Joanna was more likely based on the same thing Cersei and Jaime's relationship was based on, AKA a damaged, narcissistic monstrosity. The marriage, IMO, was based on the fact that Tywin was attempting to emulate the elitist principles of the Targaryens. Only a Lannister could match a Lannister, in other words.

Then we examine the children of this incestuous union. I don't think its a coincidence that Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion are as fucked up as they are. The example they have of a relationship is fucked up and incestuous, so it wasn't surprising that the twins emulated it. And Tyrion being Tyrion is also not shocking. Joanna may have demanded a place for him, but how much of that was motivated by love, and how much by a similar narcissism to Tywin and Cersei's, the idea of the child as the extension of the self.

But, @brydeswhale , I hear you say, because I have audio processing disorder, what about the Starks?

Well, tbh, I'm pretty sure the Lyarra/Rickard thing being incestuous was an afterthought, another way to mirror the Lannisters, but I do not think they're intended to be an example of incest done right. Rickard had some pretty weird obsessions of his own, if certain people are to be believed, and Lyarra is a near non-entity.

And while their kids seem to be, well, less fucked up than the Lannisters, it's still worth noting that two of the four are dead, of the two survivors, one dedicated himself to ensuring his family's full isolation from the rest of the country and the other joined a penal colony full of slave soldiers dedicated to what amounts to a border patrol that, whatever its origins, seems intent on enforcing an economic and cultural barrier to a random set of ethnic groups beyond the Wall, so good job there.

And even when Brandon and Lyanna were alive, well, no fault to Lyanna, she seems like a good kid, but Brandon was apparently an antagonistic dick and, well, he doesn't seem to have been very respectful of women.

Incest almost seems like a code in GRRM for "something is very wrong here and it won't end well, even for the innocents" and I just don't see him choosing to go against that.

As an incest survivor, the lightness with which the Jonsa fandom treats that aspect of it is messed up.

I don't tend to talk too much about my past as a CSA survivor, but yeah, there is it is. It kind of weirds me out, DOESN'T trigger me, just weirds me out, how casually the ASOIAF fandom treats incest bc, um, yeah, its not really casual. I feel like GRRM treats it with a great deal of gravitas, but fandom kind of skips over it, which is weird.

The "Real" siblings stance is obnoxious

There exists, within fandom, a tendency to devalue families outside the biological family.

It's not specific to ASOIAF, don't get me wrong. It's the same thing that had people giggling over Thor's defensive "he's adopted" or talking about which Robin is "the real son". It also lends itself to pairing in those fandoms based on those same ideas. It's not incest, after all, if they're not really related?

This might seem like small potatoes to some people, but the problem with this is that it's also a problem outside fandom, and it's something I've dealt with my entire life.

See, my family also isn't "real" according to this rule.

I have foster siblings, step siblings, half siblings, so on and so forth. I have siblings I'm almost completely alienated from, siblings I love more than life itself, and siblings who are ex-siblings, pining for the fjords, kicked the bucket, bought the farm, blah, blah, blah.

So to hear people talk about how Jon and Sansa aren't real siblings because of the complexity of how their relationship came to be, how close they are, whether or not the moon was full when they met, is actually kind of hurtful.

It tells me something about the people using this trope and what they subconsciously think of my family. How "real" we are to them, and how much we matter. It kind of makes me think we don't really matter, that because we don't share DNA, we don't count.

Also:

Jon is one of my least favourite characters and Sansa can do better.

To Be VERY VERY clear:

I'm not saying don't ship them, don't read it, etc, etc. If you want to, it's up to you. Like I said, I read it sometimes, just because it's so ubiquitous. I have plenty of pairings that other people might hate, or think are immoral, etc. These are just my feelings, tbh.

I just think dismissing all criticism or even plain distaste for this ship down to not liking one character or another, or whatever, is kind of messed up. There are lots of valid reasons not to like a ship, and it's worth considering all of them.

[thephantomcasebook]

I just watched the latest episode of Frida night tights on YouTube because they had a good commentary on Hollywood creating bad shows and movies. But it shocked me that nerdotic said that when episode 2 of hotd season 2 comes on air, people will complain and "pussy out" with the violence of a mere innocent child's demise. I am really disappointed that he didn't rephrase it like saying, it will be a hard scene to watch. I feel like the normal audience will be very disturbed and have a empathetic understanding towards the Greens and especially towards Heleana. It's Like Nerdotic is looking forward to that scene. In the wrong way. Thooughts?

I was listening to the episode as I was playing Total War: Atilla

Gary and Ryan are Team Black Fanboys who are big Daemon/Matt Smith simps. Shad and Mauler are more Team Green, they both love Aemond and Mauler is really into Otto.

But yeah, I wasn't too big on their blood lust for "Blood & Cheese" but I also know that they - like a lot of people - are getting annoyed with the "Blacks are good and Greens are bad" stuff, and some hardcore fans are relishing for a ASoIaF style shock to the system that makes the normies and activists realize that this isn't a clean cut narrative.

As a veteran of the fandom for nearly 14 years now, the one thing to keep in mind is not to take any of it too personally, that is just the way that a lot of old school ASoIaF fans are, we all kinda relish in the dark and fucked up stuff sometimes.

Just remember that its a show, these are fictional characters, and when people give you shit you give it right back to them. Go to battle on the keyboard with a smirk and jovial manner and remember we all like the same thing in the end and arguing over stupid shit is what bonds us as big fucking nerds.

Just hold to this tenant:

Team Black is for the consumer mouth breathers

Team Green is for true Caballeros of intellect and culture.

[melrosing]

This fandom’s conflict driven approach to all kinds of discourse really ruins what could be so many thoughtful discussions. I think it is completely ok that people disagree a lot, but it’s hard to have meaningful discussions about those disagreements if people are always ready to insult you or raise the stakes of the argument to something beyond just books. Appreciate you not doing that so thank you.

Ya I completely agree… I mean it’s not just asoiaf fandom that struggles with this, god knows kids’ cartoons fandoms are notorious for it, but I do think everyone on an individual basis could maybe rethink what they’re truly in fandom for and whether it’s always worth bringing a gun to a blorbo fight.

like sometimes it’s funny with hindsight but I do find it genuinely so frustrating sometimes the inability of others to have good faith discussion over a fucking fantasy series. Like the times I’ve said something and utter randomers have jumped on it making anything from mild insults to pretty vile accusations because it misaligns with what they think about their fave…. it’s exhausting :) and I just don’t understand where they have the energy to act like that over a basic discussion of a book series on tumblr. lol.

I will say the kinds of fans who particularly annoy me are the ones who make conflict their entire output, because they’re basically just feeding off of everyone else to keep their weird hobby going. Like sometimes you see a post where they’re acting like they’re just throwing some thoughts out there but it’s like, I know you’re angling for drama here. because apparently you are fully fucking bored of these books and arguing over them is the only thing that gets the adrenaline going for you. Talking about these characters isn’t enough unless you feel like in doing so you can adequately upset someone else. And I’m not talking about anyone specific here, y’all can think of at least a dozen such accounts by urselves

but whatever for the most part I do love asoiaf fandom, I think the people who do want to just enjoy the series and share it with others make up most of us and I love u all xoxo

[navree]

Hey, hope you're doing well!

I wanted to ask what you think of Criston's death? I know he's disliked by the majority even though if you were to rank from most to least "problematic" he's towards the very bottom - only the babies and Helaena have him beat.

I've seen people hope he's given a disgraceful death which....from what we've seen of him so far, could probably happen, which would be very disappointing.

Maybe I'm being too harsh but some of the messaging given the show's theme(s) confuses me. I agree with you when you said that Viserys got a tragic and sympathetic death despite his unacknowledged awfulness. We obviously don't know how the other deaths will go down but bookwise, Daemon (who is the Problematic King) gets a cool duel at the end. And if Criston, who's nowhere near as bad as others and is underprivileged socially and politically, gets a send-off that narratively paints him as the main instigator or a disgraced knight, I really do think I would side-eye this show.

Not saying he's the best, but there's something pretty tragic about a knight who has no choice (because otherwise he's stuck in the marches or something) but to protect the most corrupt system in the show choosing to swear himself first and foremost to a child-bride who also has no choice but to serve the crown lest her family dies. They're both working within the system to protect themselves and their loved ones, not seeking power, compared to the opposition who believe they're entitled to the throne and have more power.

Thanks!

Thanks so much anon for the well wishes anon! I'm doing good, my birthday's next week so I'm having a banner time being my parents' precious little girl in the build up to that, my mom gets very affectionate around birthdays and likes to show that affection by buying me food.

I think Criston's death kinda depends on what you're looking for from the narrative, because, as I've mentioned many times, F&B is meant to be read as a history. And in history, sometimes people have these ignominious deaths. Mark Antony had a moment quite like Criston's where he attempted to challenge Augustus/Octavian to some sort of single combat, and Octavian said no because he was on the winning side and it wouldn't make any sense for him to give up his advantages in military combat when he clearly would lose in one-on-one. Sometimes that's just how life works. You can try to organize a grand and glorious death for yourself but if the other side doesn't see any profit in it for them, they're not going to acquiesce, and in war they're going to try and get rid of you as soon as possible. And in a world like ASOIAF, which prides itself on the fact that there are real consequences to actions and that it doesn't lean into certain clichés (which one-on-one single combat for the fate of the war would be), Criston dying because he was outgunned, outmanned, outnumbered, outplanned and the people he was fighting against decided to just get him out of the way makes sense. That doesn't necessarily make it a bad sendoff. I actually find Criston's death, as it was written in the book, as quite noble. He tries to negotiate, literally says he'll surrender without a fight as long as his men aren't harmed, and he's the one who was refused, and even if you look at it from a neutral eye Longleaf comes off as a bastard in his ordering of Criston's death. I'm also not a fan of those takes that, if a character checks a certain number of boxes on the Disprivileged Checklist, they cannot have anything bad happen to them ever because It Sends A Bad Message because it can feel infantalizing and also people who tend to view fiction like that range from boring to annoying half the time because their reasoning doesn't go any further beyond just that sort of YA book type of view without any thought to history or context or just how fiction works and how trends work and why certain things exist. So while it may be a bit of a letdown from a story perspective, it does make sense for the rules of the world as well as how we're meant to be looking at the tale, and it does still give Criston something of a sendoff, in my opinion.

(daemon's death is just dumb tho, this man is pushing fifty and he's somehow making these anime moves and flying off of dragons to land on another dragon and stab someone in the middle of the air while the dragons are fighting? no, he's not, it's just there because george likes daemon and wanted him to have a cool sendoff, no shade to grrm i've done my fair share of twisting the narrative for my faves but that's what happened here)

We'll see what the show does with Criston, because that's like a couple seasons off (if the show really is going for four seasons, I think this'll be a season 3 thing) and the circumstances have changed. Criston gets a sendoff where he's taunted for starting this war and being a "Kingmaker" in the book, but in the show he's not. He's not the Kingmaker, and had much less of a role in putting Aegon on the throne than in the book, both publicly and privately. So they can't do that, and the show might do something to counterbalance any narrative that they're disproportionately punishing someone societally disadvantaged (especially when a lot of Criston's disadvantaged background, being an out and out commoner and being an ethnic minority in Westeros due to being Dornish, etc, are literally from the show as the book just says he was the son of a steward), since they decided to avoid any "bury your gays" backlash or anger at only killing off characters of color by faking Laenor's death (while still not doing great by the rest of the black characters and also creating a mountain of plotholes and still killing off some poor random black dude anyway for it to work but since he's not named it's fine I guess?). It really depends on what they want to do with Criston throughout the rest of the show, what else they'll give him to do, and how they'll build up his relationships and the circumstances behind things like the Butcher's Ball. Hopefully he gets a good goodbye scene with Alicent before he and Aemond leave King's Landing, at least, for all of our fragile hearts.

[maironsbigboobs]

3, 4, 6, 7, 8

screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr

I no longer have the screenshot but there was a take in the Thingol tag that was just so, so bad and disingenuous despite claiming to be "fair". -_-

what was the last straw that made you finally block that annoying person?

See above. ALSO I blocked so many people off that homophobic poll from the other day.

which ship fans are the most annoying?

I don't really get annoyed by ship stuff, I don't even have any ship tags blocked lmao

Obviously individuals can be annoying and sometimes characters can get extremely woobified/flattened which is annoying but I think everyone likes to woobify their faves a little. It's fun. I'm probably guilty of it. So I don't really get worked up about it.

what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

Rogue ASOIAF opinion but Tyrion Lannister. Why are people making him a funnyman nice guy character that's not who he is!!!! Stop making him one of the heads of the dragon that has fuck all to do with him!!!

common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

My brain has gone blank, I can't think of anything I would call a fandom wide opinion...