#armand & daniel's relationship is so so important to me

[devourcr]

my armand will always love daniel. i still have faith that the show will give us more, but my characterization of him and the way he engages with daniel is not of someone who would turn him lightly.

he will only turn him to save his life.

it's my headcanon that hes been thinking about it bc of the parkinson's ( and i still believe they had more of a past than what we've seen ). tbh i'd say one of the reasons he finally agreed to the interview was to see him. ( as much as he might deny it )

daniel is never an afterthought. daniel is not made on a whim. armand only makes one fledgling in all his 500 years and that is daniel. someone he can't bear the thought of dying. and equally can't bear the thought of giving him the dark gift, but does, when there's no other choice.

[camellia-thea]

initially this post had some commentary about interests right now. and then it turned into a ramble about personal healing in the tags. so the interest post is going separately.

[asthedeathoflight]

I do think 70s devils minion adds a whole layer to Daniel and Armand's relationship that we're not really taking into account enough bc while it does kind of technically happen in canon (that they break up and then get back together) we never actually get to SEE them when they're back together and so its not really taken into consideration for their dynamic.

But like Armand is someone who has for his entire life been another person's possession, who has defined himself as a person that people Have instead of Love. And what the Queen of the Damned chapter shows is Daniel Molloy as someone who Armand wanted to possess and who wanted to be possessed by Armand. Armand has never owned anything in his entire 500 year life and so he NEEDS to own Daniel, he needs to have just this ONE THING to himself after all this time. And Daniel for his part is very into being so consumed by another person. For a time, Daniel is exactly what Armand needs. Here is a person who cannot hurt him, who wants to belong to him, who he can finally assert authority over and in doing so assert his own independence. Nobody in Armand's life has ever been truly HIS in the way that Daniel is.

But the longer theyre together the less urgent the need to possess and control is, and the more Armand is able to love Daniel selflessly, the more they come into conflict because Daniel still WANTS that level of obsession. Their breakup in the books is inevitable because their relationship was built on impulses that, while important stages in their growth, over time became unhealthy. Daniel needs to get out of his cycle of addiction and Armand needs to grow past needing to possess people to believing they'll stay of their own free will. So they need to break up.

BUT unlike in the books where Armand's resolve ultimately fails him and he turns Daniel anyways, cementing the both of them into both of their unhealthiest habits, show Armand manages to work through his issues to the next stage of his growth: that he needs to let Daniel go. And he does! He lets Daniel go and he bears the burden of their relationship alone for 50 years so that Daniel could not only have a human life but also develop as a person in a way he never could have if he stayed with Armand. Show Daniel is a different man from 70s/book Daniel. He knows who he is. Even though he's falling back into old patterns now that he's a vampire he's still been through this cycle a few times and hes stronger now than he would have been if he was turned when he was 30.

I think, assuming devils minion did happen in the 70s, the present Daniel/Armand dynamic will be different from what we're expecting because they've finally grown enough as people so that they can come together on equal footing which is really important bc Armand has never been someone's equal in a relationship before! This is new territory for him! So I think their relationship has potential for development of both of them as characters to places they never got to go in the books. Please note that this is NOT me saying they will have a perfectly well adjusted healthy relationship I just think that this is the next step past their old dynamic and probably will be more dangerous for other people than it is for them which is always a win.

[vaperarmand]

my friend rashid: a fic rec list

welcome back to iwtv fanfic friday! this week's theme was born out of my love for rashidmand, but of course i couldn't stop there, so i've included some featuring real rashid as well. on that note, if you're looking for a sign to write a fic featuring real rashid or rashidmand, THIS IS IT.

drawing in a subject by nestorius (e, 1.7k words)

Armand interrupts. (immediately post season one reveal, teensy bit character study, daniel's "inexplicable" desire for rashid. made for me in a lab)

a memo from human resources by nestorius (not rated, 2.5k words)

The pitfalls of having a vampire boss. (the real rashid prelude to above. his relationship with louis in this drives me wild. i still believe this is rashid's lore and you can't stop me.)

Live your role by Thunder__Puss (e, 1.5k words)

Louis and Armand bed down in the penthouse. Rashid overhears a bit more than he'd care to. (ARMAND PLAYING RASHID IN BED WITH LOUIS ... THIS IS WHAT DREAMS ARE MADE OF)

honey and pineapple by duri (e, 3.5k words)

Rashid pays Daniel a visit. (hey girls did you know that uhmmmmm... armand wants daniel so bad. like OH MY GOD)

I like your getup, if you know what I mean by cannibalenthusiast (aka yours truly) (e, 1.7k words)

His brain conjures the image of Rashid standing primly with a plush towel draped over his slim wrist. “For your jizz, Mister Molloy,” he says. Daniel snorts and spits onto his hand. (sorry to be reccing my own work but it was my first one for the pairing and i'm proud of it ok? daniel jerks off thinking of rashidmand and rashidmand sort of unknowingly provides a helping hand. it's important to me)

Taking All That A Person Can Give by anonymous (e, 6k words)

Daniel fantasizes about "Rashid". Set during and after 1x05. (mind the tags on this one! daniel and armand both get tortured. sexually. awesome crazy work.)

honeysuckle sips from your rolling hips by ultraviolet_glow aka @lesbians4armand (m, 1.4k words)

It was the viscosity that got to him, Daniel thought. Something deeply obscene, sensual about the viscosity of honey compared to the viscosity of blood. Both were natural, bodily fluids, if you thought too hard about it. Thick and dripping and sweet. (YAAAAY more wet dreams for daniel!!! this is just one of many awesome rashidmand fics violet has written <3)

honey and pineapple by softestbutch aka @softest-butch (e, 1.8k words)

He’s thinking of you, Rashid. Louis felt Armand’s body flush at the use of the name. He ran the flat of his tongue over the wound in his neck, continuing to drink. Our boy. He wants you. (awesomeeee take on the 1.5 scene with a little bit of loumand as well. i can never get enough)

[nightcolorz]

Could you tell me your interpretation of why the Devil's minion split up after qotd? I only read up to that book and i've been learning through spoilers

omg I love this question! I personally think it was sort of an inevitability. Armand and Daniel were super unstable, on and off again-y while Daniel was human, and the binding factor that kept them together was that Armand was a vampire and Daniel was a human. Daniel can’t stay away from Armand for long because he’s obsessed and enthralled with everything monstrous and other about him (he’s also quite literally addicted to his blood). Daniel is so attached to Armand partly I think because he desperately wants to experience vampirism and after the affair with Louis he can’t see a reality for himself without vampirism in his life—whenever he tries to live normally he has that nagging reminder that their r supernatural wonderful things he will never be a part of and it drives him crazy.

Armand is in love with Daniel because he’s fascinated by all the things that make Daniel human. He considers him his link to the “modern age” and the thing that connects him to what he craves the most (humanity). Armand finds it very difficult to connect with people and by extension the world after how isolated he’s been for a good chunk of his immortality, and connection is very important to him. Daniel is how he experiences that. Armand also I think very much envies humans and wishes in a way to return to his humanity, and in this he finds experiencing humanity through daniel and seeing it in him very enthralling and special. Also Armand considers Daniel a mirror to how he was as a human (immature, lustful, brave, obsessed with the supernatural, doomed to failure), and Armand is very very frightened of seeing someone who he considers an embodiment of all he loves about humanity and a representative of the naivety he once had fall down his same path and loose it all to madness and immortal hell.

and obviously this is a huge issue!! Because Daniel loves Armand for his vampirism and Armand loves Daniel for his humanity, and both of them fundamentally want to abandon the thing the other prizes them for. But the tragedy there is that it’s not so superficial!! They also just love each other in a simpler, more personal sense. Daniel feels free with Armand, he feels like he can be the insane person he rlly is when they’re together. Armand gives Daniel access to the type of unhinged freedom and intense connection that he wants from life. He’s a walking subject Daniel can study, someone who never stops being fascinating (perfect for a journalist). And he loves his layers and his complexity, all the gross and horrible parts of him. Daniel first falls for Armand when he hears him genuinely laugh. <3, For armand, Daniel basically the only person who’s rlly ever seen him for who he is and loved him for it. Armand has a pattern of being shaped by people into something else, or misperceived and loved for that false image, and Daniel is in love with all the worst parts of armand. He loves him for everything he is, Daniel even says he’s an Armand expert lol. He sees it all and he loves it. And Armand is experiencing this type of unconditionality for the first time. There’s real connection there! The issue is that despite this so much of their relationship is built upon the vampire and human dynamic and it’s super hard to move past that.

The choice that Armand makes when he turns Daniel is “do I value Daniel more then I value his humanity and what that represents” and of course, Armand chooses Daniel, even tho it breaks him to do what he considers to be unforgivable to this person he loves so deeply. Armand vowed very early on that he would never turn a person into a vampire. And it’s cuz Armand rlly doesn’t like being a vampire 😭 He knows he wasn’t supposed to be a vampire, his maker goes around talking all the time about how armand was a mistake he should have never made and he’s fucked up bcus of how vampirism has affected him. And Armand knows that bcus of this he is a distortion of whatever person he could have been, and he’s always longing to understand part of what he’s missing. it’s rlly pretty sad. And so it makes sense that Armand would hate to take on the responsibility of, as he sees it, potentially ruining someone he loves. But he’d rather have Daniel alive than dead, so he turns him. Already this is hard on Armand bcus he considers it a selfish defeat to turn Daniel, choosing his own feelings over what he knows would be best for him. Daniel meanwhile is thrilled. Not off to a great start already

so Daniel was turned under insane circumstances and Armand and him have very little time to process any of it. Daniel is afraid to take life which isn’t abnormal in itself, but it freaks them both out. Once the insanity of queen of the damned settles down and Daniel and Armand r living together as a vampire x vampire couple at night island the issues begin to set in. There’s a huge disconnect now, Daniel is thrilled to be experiencing vampirism as he’s always wanted, Armand is grieving daniels humanity, neither of them r talking about it. Also, Daniel still has his addictive personality and his mental health issues which r exasperated by being a new vampire, so ofc he’s kind of loopy and kind of unstable. And Armand is realizing this and he’s thinking oh my god I’ve ruined Daniel I’ve destroyed the person I love the most, I’ve taken this person who I consider just like myself when I was a human and I’ve repeated the cycle of destruction, I destroy everything I touch oh my god. And I imagine this thought pattern led to Armand distancing himself from Daniel and being agitated and off putting, and I can say that being rlly excited about a change that ur partner is passive aggressively hostile about is like actual hell.

And the kicker!!! Armand’s primary mode of communication with his loved ones is the mind gift. It’s basically his safety net, in tvl it’s explained that Armand rarely ever talks out loud because he finds speaking through his mind much more comfortable. He uses the mind gift to express his feelings when he can’t with words, which is a pretty handy tool in a relationship when ur someone who struggles with verbal communication. But when Armand turns Daniel!! He can not communicate through the mind gift with him anymore!! So basically all these issues Armand is having and all this grief and stress and resentment is being left unsaid, and therefore unresolved. A couple can nottt get over an issue they aren’t talking about.

I imagine Armand felt like daniels vampirism was a huge barrier blocking him from ever connecting with him as he did ever again. Which!! Obviously Daniel will notice that Armand is giving up on him, and old patterns begin to resurface. They don’t have the “Daniel wants to be a vampire but Armand doesn’t want to turn him” argument anymore, but they do have a tension that is being left both unresolved and not understood by either party. All they know is the spark is fading and there’s resentment and there’s pain. And that tension, with these crazies, results in big blow out yelling matches and crying and “I’m leaving u for good this time I mean it!!”

so in conclusion, what I think happened with Daniel and Armand after qotd is that combined with his preexisting issues and his vampirism inflicted overstimulation, Armand’s bitterness and his distance drives Daniel to a mental break, and after some fight or another he leaves night island and vows to never return. Daniel is in a very vulnerable mental state as an already mentally ill new vampire. Vampirism has a very overwhelming effect on some people where the change to sensory processing makes it hard for some vampires to function fully on their on because of how difficult it is for them to process information. And daniels got that. I feel like he could have possibly made it through well with a strong support system, open communication, and guidance on how to navigate this new life, but obviously he didn’t have that.

When Daniel was a human he’d do this often, leaving, but then he’d realize he couldn’t live without Armand and come back. But when Daniel is so out of his mind he gets distracted by a light bulb or smth, he doesn’t come back. Maybe he would have if he was in his right mind, but he’s lost it and there’s not the safety net of Armand’s mind gift to come and locate him. So Marius finds him, decides that Armand is too broken and immature to ever care for his own fledgling, and he takes him in. And I figure that Armand’s guilt becomes unbearable after this, and he internalizes the assumption that he isn’t fit to have his own functioning relationships bcus of his issues, and he gives up on Daniel completely. Of course until the pl trilogy when they r able to re connect!

so yeah!! That’s my interpretation, loved this ask thank u for letting me yap. I hope this was coherent lol. Thank u sm!

[frigidwife]

i would like to ask ur opinion on this bc u are one of maybe 5-6 iwtv blogs that i trust and i don't know if i am simply biased but i think u are very thoughtful and fair in ur analysis of iwtv. because even among self-proclaimed louis lovers/understanders, i have seen the idea that louis "could not and would not" save claudia from the fire, or choose her over armand, or that louis was also abusive to claudia if not the Most abusive, or that he "let" lestat/armand destroy her. and i agree that louis failed claudia in some ways (though saying that feels much too vague at this point) and that liking characters doesn't mean apologizing for their flaws and i understand the reflex to spotlight claudia's mistreatment as many fans are so quick to dismiss her importance. but i think people get so caught up in emphasizing claudia's tragedy that they end up falling into victim-blaming rhetoric and ironically de-legitimizing really important aspects of her character and impact. so i wanted to ask though, how do you think louis actually did fail claudia? and should we call claudia's death louis' failure?

ty for valuing my opinion 🥹 i agree w you completely people emphasize claudia's tragedy at total expense of her personality...which sucks bc i love her personality...i think louis actually primarily failed claudia in the exact way that every single parent fails their child. if you've read frankenstein it's about the inherent monstrosity of creation--inherent hubris of creating something whether it's a creature, a work of art (the novel itself!), or a child (shelley's miscarriages and her relationship with her parents haunt the novel). you create something that is a part of you and a mirror of you, you confer your expectations as naturally as breathing, even with the best of intentions, but now the creature/novel/child exists outside of you, outside of your body and your imagination, autonomous, with desires and effects you couldn't have dreamt of, and there is something terrifying and painful in that chasm even in the best of conditions. and this is more broadly true of loving anyone. and in that sense i don't think louis's turning of claudia is really more selfish than having a child ever is. it's not an aberrant or evil desire. so that's one layer.

and then the next layer is the conditions. louis cannot stop seeing claudia as his daughter, even if he calls her sister. she'll always be his daughter. and again this is an almost fundamental condition of being a parent. even if ur parents make an effort--and louis is making an effort--to see you as equals, that foundation is underlying it and can't come undone. the problem is that normally, even if maybe you're always a baby to your mom deep down, you're also functionally an adult in the real world. but claudia is an adult who is constantly belittled and condescended to and treated as a child from all corners. so she goes from louis who can't see her as her own person because he cant stop being her parent to an outside world that can't see her as her own person bc it's structured to deny children's autonomy, and girls' in particular, and especially black girls'. AND THEN the abuse. “you chose lestat over her again and again” i think people take daniel as word of god a lot even when the show has demonstrated that daniel is less than careful talking and thinking about abuse, when it comes to both louis and claudia. Louis chooses to take lestat back, can’t kill him for good, chooses to commit to armand, tells her to put up with the coven’s abuse. those are choices that hurt claudia terribly. but they also exist in the context of abuse. over two decades of debilitating destroying violence and then a new man who tracks him down and dangles his and claudia’s life over him as penalty from the jump. louis is constantly calculating risk based on what they’ve experienced and the same way claudia’s trauma drives her into the waiting arms of a cult, louis’s means he sees enduring as his strongest means of survival . and even from before that from keeping his family afloat under jim crow —performance, self sacrifice at the expense of closeness with grace and paul; using “weakness to rise”. so when louis tells claudia to endure its bc he cannot imagine a way out. which is a failure sure and something claudia can and does resent him deeply for but is entirely and categorically different from what lestat and armand inflict on her . his “choosing armand” is never really about him liking armand particularly it’s him deciding he knows what’s best for both of them—again seeing claudia as his child—to the extent that he won’t even tell her about armand knowing their secret.

this isn’t selfless it’s foolish it’s prideful but the story very clearly is not Louis picking a man over his daughter. (claudia calls out what he wants in a companion in 2.01—“if he can’t call you pretty and take you ballroom dancing” Armand won’t even light his cigarette). i think people have constructed this narrative which funnily enough is the exact same one armand uses to gaslight louis with in 2.05 ("you threw around her name for cover, but you always went back to talking about him" or something like that). Which is really obviously a victim blaming narrative lol like the amount of joke posts that r essentially saying Maybe if louis wasn’t so cock hungry his daughter wouldn’t be dead. Okay?? i think its absolutely fucking insane to call her death louis's particular failure when she was lynched. by armand

and you can tell by episode 6 claudia has realized louis isn’t picking armand over her. her frustration with him is with this martyrdom that she never asked for or wanted, that clearly isn’t “you and me” either. Like you cannot tell me she believes “imagine me without the burden of her” means louis is happy and relieved to see her go Bc she’s not stupid and she’s seen him happy before. If she really thought he meant something like that she wouldn’t behave towards him as she does in the rest of ep 6 and doing the trial. completely ignoring her personality

there is also a hopefully really small subset of people who think pointing out how patriarchy works Is gender essentialism who posit louis as the primary perpetrator of misogynoir in order to justify their fundamental queer human right to call lestat femme . and then expect pats on the back for acknowledging #intersectionality . which is. absurd.

[saintundying]

IIRC you also think DM happened in the past. Do you have a theory as to why Daniel's memory's were erased?

Are you ready for something insane???

I think it has to do with Marius de Romanus.

The epicenter of Armand is Marius. He is in every crack and corner of how Armand exists. His shadow falls over the dynamic of Louis and Armand in the show and Armand and Daniel in the QotD chapter. In the book, once Armand realizes Daniel truly loves him in Pompeii, what does he do? He resorts himself back into the role he knows, except he casts Daniel as Amadeo and himself as Marius. Daniel becomes fully dependent on Armand because isn't that what love is? Armand understands his love properly right when Daniel is dying so he turns him. Armand can't stomach turning Daniel (sounds like s2 finale babes) and Daniel loses his mind and ends up isolated in Marius' care.

1940s AMC Armand believes Marius dead. Does 2022 Armand? Timelines can change easily. He spent time with Lestat for the trial, it could have been revealed. Lestat would hold it over his head for making him do this. Or maybe, reveal it through a relationship with Daniel.

Armand makes sure the SF edit of memories allows him to flaunt he saved Daniel's life. This is important to him. Except, he didn't save Daniel's life at all in that apartment. Why is it important to Armand that Daniel (and Louis) believe this? Why is it important Armand can hold onto that? I think he really believes he saves Daniel's life, just not in SF.

In the books, Bianca, Daniel, Benji, Sybelle all become objects Marius takes from Armand. So if Marius did come to check up on Armand unseen (funnily enough he does so in Paris and it's in Paris that Daniel's memories start to form a coherent timeline again) and finds him in a relationship with a human boy? Oh no, Armand is Marius'.

Oh Amadeo, I've come to you again. You have a human companion? He is addicted to you, you hurt him, give him the Gift! Turn him or free him! You cannot love properly because that is your nature. Let me take care of this one for you, Amadeo.

There is a glaring neon sign stating the love has already happened because Armand turns Daniel in the show. He has no other reason to do so. Armand doesn't punish this way. Okay so past relationship, but Armand doesn't want Daniel in Dubai, except he is and he allows it. Why? The entire thing reeks of "I don't want this interview happening. I don't want you here, but I am weak and selfish and I wanted to see you again. I want you to remember me."

I think he believes he saved Daniel from a life of damnation and Armand by allowing Marius (or himself, but I don't think he is that strong in the Mind Gift) to remove the memories of their time. I free you from me and you can go onto live a life. I won't let you be cursed.

So yea, Marius. Show wise look at who is about to get the scoop on Armand and Marius through Lestat. You set up Armand as this false villain, Daniel starts realizing there is more memories missing, anger at Armand for taking more. Look at what you did to Nicki, look at what you did to Claudia and Louis, look at what you did to me. Drop the twist that Armand truly thought he was saving Daniel, start Armand's backstory/redemption arc, and you build them reuniting.

Devil's minion break up and reunite in the books, but that is never shown beyond a few lines. No way, this show wouldn't want a deep exploration of a human/vampire relationship. They're dramatists. Rolin Jones and co. have such a sandbox to play in with these two during the time Anne Rice doesn't write for them and that's why I think their timeline appears all over the place.

OH! Daniel sits by Marius' portrait in the dining room every time by the way. Also, crazy first name drop of a major character in a line from the episode titled "...after the phantoms of your former self" where only Armand is present in the scene.

Yea, I bet you never heard of him

[cbrownjc]

My thoughts about Devil's Minion right now after Rolin Jones' comments (spoilers):

A meta so thorough, that I first wrote in a post/reply elsewhere, I'm putting it into a separate post, (with some more added to it), just because. And especially since I know I've gotten a lot of followers over the course of Season 2 because of my Devil's Minion posts as well, and I want this all in a separate, individual post for quick reference, just in case.

Fair warning: if you are totally happy and fine about what happened -- i.e. how Armand turned Daniel -- then yeah, what I am going to say here isn't for you. I'm not trying to harsh anyone's vibe, especially if you are just happy that Daniel is a vampire now, okay? This is just about how I feel and see things about it at the moment (particularly regarding RJs comments about it). So if you're not up for criticism, critique, as well as speculation about Devil's Minion right now, then yeah. IMO, just skip this post, please.

Okay. So. Rolin Jones just gave an interview with The Hollywood Reporter and this is what he said about Daniel's turning by Armand:

Jones confirms that, just like in Rice’s books, Armand is the one who turns Daniel into a vampire. “Will we see that moment of turning? No, but Armand finally made a vampire and clearly made him out of spite,” he says with a laugh. “It looks like it was really not a great moment [between him and Daniel], but that connects those two characters. They will have scenes going forward, obviously.”

-- Rolin Jones, Hollywood Reporter, 06/30/24

Okay so, to start. For me, someone who has been waiting since 1995 (when I was 17) for Devil's Minion, for Armand and Daniel's relationship to finally be adapted in some way, I'll be honest. There are only two ways this can go now that I can see at the moment: either Rolin is lying/trolling to hide the truth about all of this, or he is telling the truth and this is truly the way they are going with this.

If Rolin is lying/trolling to hide something about all of this, then I'll forgive that lying/trolling instantly once it's revealed that he was. (Put a pin in this.) Having to flat-out lie or troll is sometimes par for the course when it comes to running a show and not wanting to spoil anything about what might be coming up in it. So honestly, if that's what's going on with what he said here? Meh. No skin off my nose.

If he is telling the truth, however? Then I'll have zero desire to watch the show anymore, once I see it 100% confirmed in some way with my own two eyes in some way on screen somehow. (Again, pin in this.) Because I have very much learned my lesson when it comes to TV shows and lazy writing/bad adaptations after Game of Thrones.

Because Armand turning Daniel out of spite is the antithesis of what Devil's Minion is supposed to be for both characters. It is an utter and complete misunderstanding of both characters and their relationship together. It's an utter downgrade of their relationship from the books, and I am not here for it. I literally do not care what "romance" they might later have planned for them if this is how Daniel was turned.

Look. If you are someone who only ever cared about Daniel just being a vampire, then this is all likely fine for you, and that's okay. But not me. Because Daniel being a vampire never was, or has been, the important part of Armand and Daniel's relationship. Not in my eyes and, frankly, not when it comes to the original story. Daniel becoming a vampire is not the important part of the Devil's Minion story. The actual love and romance before Daniel is turned is because it is during that part of it that the actual character development and growth both of them go through from it takes place. Especially for Armand's character.

And that only has any depth when Daniel is human and Armand is forever refusing to turn him because of his hangups about making another vampire.

And Armand finally turning Daniel out of love was a huge step that showed Armand beginning to move forward and heal -- from not only his time in the Children of Darkness cult, but begin his healing when it comes to his Marius issues as well.

Armand turning Daniel out of spite undercuts all of that. It undercuts the whole story. And flat-out guts some of the major depth of the relationship and Armand's character development overall.

Not to mention it makes Daniel no better than someone like Claudia wrt Armand turning him now. Maybe even less than her since at least Claudia got turned out of Lestat's love for someone else. Daniel doesn't even get that? The person who is supposed to be his eternal companion doesn't even get turned by him out of love, an important point to the bond between such Maker and Fledgling eternal companions, but out of hate and spite instead?

Yeah, no thank you.

This is not what I've waited since 1995 to see with these two and the fact their relationship may have gotten treated like this -- if this is true -- utterly astounds me how this show could get Loustat so right (and even upgrade them so beautifully in so many ways such as with Louis' turning) and utterly fail Devil's Minion so badly. Because yes, it's failing them. It's a terrible and, moreover, just a shallow adaptation of Devil's Minion if this is how it really all goes down.

Because there is way more to Armand and Daniel than them just Daniel being a vampire and them finally "getting together." Or at least there is supposed to be. And this ain't it.

(Pin!) Now, with that all said? The fact that Rolin flat out says that we'll never see Armand turning Daniel? Yeah okay, I'm sus on that one. Because really. The only reason not to show Armand turning Daniel next season -- and visually confirm that Armand did it -- is if because . . . Armand never actually turned Daniel in the first damn place.

Or, if he did, it maybe was not fully Daniel.

I mean, you're not going to ever actually show Armand turning his first-ever fledgling (who he's supposed to go on to have a romantic relationship with at some point) after making a big ass deal out of the fact that Armand has never turned anyone before? Ever?

See I know damn well that Armand is being framed as a villain right now. He very much has to be given how the end of the book IWTV and how the upcoming book The Vampire Lestat, goes. Armand is the main villain/antagonist in it. Even in the present day, it is clear Armand hasn't gone yet gone through all of the growth that he does from Queen of the Damned on. So he's still back in his villain-era mode right now. And his post-breakup with Louis mode in the present day. Which is fine, it's how his story -- and the story where it is right now -- goes. I am thoroughly okay with that.

And the very idea that Armand turned Daniel out of spite? Very much plays into that framing-him-as-a-villian state where Armand's character is right now. And will be for the majority of Season 3, which I've already before now suspected and said.

So here is where the speculation on my end of things comes in. Because yeah, not only can I not help myself but because -- until I see this play out with my own eyes -- I'm willing to be reasonable and look at the various ways this all could still play out that doesn't completely gut out the very heart of Armand and Daniel -- as characters and their relationship together. (Or at least not have it be so damn shallow by the end when they inevitably get and stay together.)

So as @nalyra-dreaming can confirm, I gave her a few scenarios that could be behind Daniel's turning weeks ago, when I first suspected it was going to happen (before the screener leaks about it started). In one of the scenarios, I said that if Daniel's vampire eyes are any color other than violet, then that is NOT Daniel's spirit/soul/consciousness in Daniel's body that has been made a vampire.

As the saying goes, "The eyes are the window into the soul." And am I really supposed to think this show got Lestat and Louis' eye color dead on correct but just missed Daniel's iconic eye color? Really? (Because no, I do not find it romantic that Daniel has his Maker's eye color, or whatever. Besides, vampire eye color doesn't even work like that -- the show didn't even do that with Louis and Lestat who are the main, grand romantic couple of the damn show.)

As I said here in this reblog, I stand by my opinion/theory that no way this show gets Daniel's iconic violet eye color wrong, even on accident. I said so weeks ago, before even seeing Daniel's eyes in that final shot in the season finale, and just predicting that he was going to get turned.

No way this show got Daniel's iconic eye color wrong when he became a vampire, not when they went to all the damn trouble creating those vampire contacts and gave Jacob's Louis green eyes to match book-Louis.

And yes I damn well know they could just have Daniel pop up with violet vampire eyes in the Season 3 premiere and there goes all of that, and it really was all just laziness, incompetence, and a mistake when it came to the color of Daniel's eyes in the finale. But right now? I'm treating Daniel's eye color as the equivalent of Rolin saying "Lelio is so boring!" as to the question of why Sam's Lestat was playing Harlequin and not Lelio in the Season 2 theater flashbacks. Something the show changed on purpose and for a reason.

Because we all damn well know that we are going to see Sam's Lestat as Lelio in Season 3, correct? Because we are.

And yes. I know some people really hate the idea of a body swap scenario regarding Daniel, but I'm sorry. At this point, it really is the only scenario out of this whole storyline that I can see right now, that will keep it anywhere close to retaining the heart of the Devil's Minion storyline, especially if Armand really did turn Daniel out of spite here (even though, again, we'll apparently never see that turning to confirm that in full. Uh-huh, okay.).

And two things that I think do set up the possibility are:

1.) Louis says Daniel was turned after he left Armand alone with him. But Louis actually wouldn't know something like that unless he was told since he wasn't there. All we can really assume at the moment is that Daniel told Louis what happened after Louis left the room. And as RJ and Assad said, we'll never see the actual turning. So who knows when the hell it happened.

2.) Raglan James, via those direct messages asking Daniel for "reciprocation" for getting him a copy of the script, with Armand's handwritten notes, of the trial-play. Between that request and the Talamasca publishing Daniel's book, that loops Daniel into the James orbit very much. And ties Daniel very close to any Talamasca going on even more.

And, quite frankly, I've thought since Season 1 that David Talbot's character was out and would be merged with both Louis and Daniel on the show. And Sam pretty much confirmed in his interview with Autumn Brown that some characters from the books will be merged together with others in the show. So, yeah. David's character is very much a character I always thought they were doing that with, and I know I'm not the only one who's thought it before now as well.

And honestly, I can much better deal with some type of scenario in which Armand maybe ends up turning two versions of "Daniel" -- and therefore technically having two fledglings, even though they are kind of the same person -- over what is being put forth about this right now. One turning -- in spite -- of Daniel's body without his true spirit/soul/consciousness in it, and the other turning -- out of love -- of Daniel's spirit/soul/consciousness inside a different body of some kind. (Which I won't go into now, as that is a whole separate long meta if I did.)

Because at least with that scenario then, in a weird way, Daniel being Armand's only fledgling would still hold. 🤷🏾‍♀️ Along with a few other things that can happen regarding Armand's character growth in between each turning.

But that is it. Because there is no way they can have Armand turn Daniel (as fully Daniel) out of spite -- as Rolin directly says he does in this interview -- and actually keep the heart of the Devil's Minion story and romance now. Not even if the Devil's Minion chase and parts of the relationship happened in the past IMO . . . another thing they are clearly avoiding talking about, btw. Which, at least right now, just tells me that, if we're lucky, we'll only -- once again -- get one episode that flashes back to that time in Season 3. Can't really be helped, since Season 3's primary focus will be regarding Lestat and Lestat's backstory. (As I've said before Daniel isn't even in that book. So whatever we get with him in Season 3 really will just be extra, added stuff.)

Oh, and something else I very much recognize is that Loustat shippers -- particularly book ones -- have gone through it these past two seasons, but now seem to be coming out of that darkness. Maybe now it's time for Devil's Minion shippers like me and others to face the same damn thing now. Because of something Assad let slip a few weeks ago about not getting Armand's full story until Season 4, I think that is how long we're going to have to wait to see the full of this play out.

But I advise right now that if some of you think you can't handle that and would just rather quit the show and binge things later, I totally get it. Waiting two seasons -- basically 4 years minimum -- is going to be a pain in the ass. I already know right now that there are some things I'm not going to have the patience for during the hiatus times in between, particularly this one. (One thing I can already say, at least right now, is that I'm not inspired to write any show-based Devil's Minion fanfic this hiatus like I did during the last hiatus).

But quitting the show altogether? No, I'm not there yet. Because yes Rolin does like to troll. Plus Hannah's tweet. Plus what was said about Devil's Minion at ATX Festival. Plus my thinking, long before now, that David Talbot was always out wrt the show, and the fact that Raglan James is here and Daniel's character has been heavily tied into The Talamasca plotline of the show.

And given everything I've seen this show do wrt it's writing up until now, I just can't fully believe they would really make Devil's Minion this damn shallow and devoid of its depth and heart. And just have Armand turn his one and only canon fledgling and immortal companion out of nothing but spite. When Armand loving Daniel and finally having to trust in Daniel's love for him, as well as his own love for Daniel over his own fear was a major point and culmination of the Devil's Minion storyline.

After everything I've seen these first two seasons wrt this show, I can't think these writers would miss such an important heart and point of the Devil's Minion storyline and romance so completely.

Not yet at any rate.

[cyranonic]

Louis de Pointe du Lac is the most important vampire in the world and let me explain to you why.

I find it incredibly fascinating that Louis is pretty unique among vampires for both his identification with and his connection to mortal humans. This trait is generally pretty inconvenient to him at first, as he struggles to break his connection to his mortal family and to justify killing humans for sustenance. However, we later see that Louis' fascination with human art and culture makes him more appealing, more life-like to other vampires. Armand in particular seems drawn to Louis because of his continuing interest in the world around him, whereas the rest of the coven has "turned inward" and thus stopped sustaining his emotional needs.

In the books, Marius gives Lestat pretty much the same advice--stay invested in the contemporary world around you in order to keep yourself sane. Lestat passes that wisdom on to Armand and his coven, dragging them out of their medieval worldview and bringing them into the ideological world of Enlightenment rationality.

However, where I think Louis does something different, something special, something radically unique, is in his relationship to Daniel Molloy and the interview. Louis goes a step further than Lestat or Marius. He does not simply draw upon humans as a source of artistic inspiration; he engages with Daniel Molloy on his own terms. He is a vampire who wants to tell his story, not to other vampires, but to the human world. He does not want to understand the contemporary human psyche, he wants them to understand him too.

Louis' desire to tell his story to Daniel seems to be based on his desire to find out what was true, to renegotiate the gaps in his own memory, but I think the other key component of what he is doing rhetorically is asking Daniel to perceive him as a human. He reclaims that lost humanity that he has been seeking by telling the tale of his life on human terms, to a human listener. He takes care to show Daniel the ways that he is inhuman, feeding in front of him, but then his story effectively reverses those feelings of alienation. Ultimately, the judgement he is asking Daniel to make is not just "is this real" but also "do I still count as one of you?" And by the end of season 2, as they sit side by side in the rock garden, Daniel seems to be answering affirmatively.

No other vampire wants anything of the kind. In fact, the whole concept is expressly forbidden by vampire laws. Claudia comes the closest, but her lifestory is a diary, a tale told ostensibly only to herself. She narrates her vampiric existence with a lot of "humanity", but her audience remains solipsistic. Lestat derives a certain amount of glee from tricking mortals into believing he is one of them, then pulling the rug out from under their feet. Even Marius does not bother with writing down his life story or telling any of his secrets to anyone other than another vampire. And Armand clearly does not want Daniel or honestly anyone to get close to perceiving the truth about him.

However, I think that Louis and Daniel's published book changes things. Lestat in particular adopts Louis' perspective pretty quickly. The entire opening of The Vampire Lestat is a justification of himself to a human reader, framing the whole book as a message not just to other vampires, but as a correction to the mortals who Louis addressed. Eventually, almost every major character gets a book wherein they have the chance to tell their story, inevitably humanizing them in the process. Even the pretty villainous characters like Armand become more comprehensible through the process of self-narration, transforming the monster back into something closer to a person again.

So in conclusion, while in the books Lestat will eventually take the lead as a the character who is leading vampires into a new era, all of this is only possible because of the revolutionary thought that comes from Louis. And I am so excited to see where the show takes Louis next, as he declares his intention to go up against his own kind.

[heliza24]

No Children, etc in ep 2.6 of IWTV

This episode is all about children and women, isn’t it? And how difficult and painful having a child as a vampire is.

Misogyny is big theme in the episode: way the plot moves around Claudia and Madeline, Madeline’s almost rape, her abuse at the hands of the mob. The women are cut out of waiting for Godot; if Godot is hope, and never arrived for the pair on stage, it never arrives for Claudia and Madeline either.

It also makes Armand exposed because it lets the coven plot around him. His kind of feminized role and his trauma leaves him exposed too, torn between Louis and the coven. Armand is the wife being asked to reproduce here. The way he reacts to Louis asking him to turn Madeline is so interesting. He doesn’t even want to watch Madeline’s turning, and the only way he would have conceded to that was if Louis had stepped into the dom role (the “masculine” role, if you will indulge outdated gender roles in order for me to make thematic point) to make him. This is likely based on his own trauma of his turning and his relationship with Marius, but maybe also because he’s already torn between loyalties to the coven and Louis by then.

The way his refusal to turn someone plays in Dubai is so fascinating. In some ways Daniel reacts to Armand like some people react to women without kids. He’s just totally shocked about how it could be possible that Armand has never made a fledgling. (of course this whole interaction is complicated and given layers by any history Armand and Daniel had together, including times that Daniel may have asked to be turned. I am sure that is playing on Armand’s mind; he’s delivering everything in that scene directly to Daniel. Daniel used to know, extremely intimately, all of Armand’s hang ups about creating a fledgling. And there’s still grief and bitterness tied up in that conversation for Armand.)

The fact that the magnolia tree in the Dubai penthouse could have been propagated from a cutting taken by Armand in Paris is so interesting. I think that can symbolize a lot of things: the hope that Louis feels in their relationship, the intertwining of New Orleans and Paris, Armand’s own sentimental attachments (to Louis and the world) that he rarely lets himself vocalize. It’s even in some ways a painful reminder of Armand’s betrayal of Louis and Claudia, a monument to his false promises. There’s also the fact that he was intentionally growing the tree in Paris, giving it new life in a way he won’t give a fledgling life, and that if the tree in Dubai is related it was propagated, artificially replicated, and not grown from a seed. But I also think it’s fascinating that we find this out in the same episode that Armand is inserted into a scene that has strong Adam and Eve symbolism. In his interaction with Madeline, Armand is the unwilling serpent, trying to scare Eve out of eating the apple she’s taken from the sacred tree of knowledge. So his connection to the tree feels important! And here’s that theme of misogyny again. Even though the roles are somewhat inverted here, Eve still gets punished for her acceptance of vampirism and of Claudia.

I do love that Madeline is the first person to make Armand question- even just for a second- his certainty that he knows exactly how Claudia will end. Nothing is prewritten according to her, and of course she’s right. But it’s not enough to shake Armand out of his other biblical role this episode. He still plays Judas, and self fulfills the prophecy he created for Claudia, and all child vampires, in the process.

I think it’s so fascinating that Louis’s one fledgling is not his child, but a partner for his child. Turning Madeline is like walking Claudia down the aisle at her wedding. It simultaneously reinforces how distant he is from Claudia (they didn’t have this turning experience together) and how much he would do for her. And there’s something so painful about how deadened he is to everything afterwards. Something about seeing the true love between the women and of letting go of Claudia takes the last pieces of feeling out of him. It’s what makes it so uncomfortable for him when Madeline still senses the love he has for Armand/Lestat (I do think she was feeling both in that scene, in a complicated way).

In this episode that’s all about children and the characters’ complicated relationship to them, it feels significant that Claudia is seen, really and truly, as an adult for the first time. As much as Louis has claimed to be thinking of her as a sister, he can never really let go of her as a daughter. I think it’s really beautiful the way that Madeline sees her. Claudia’s younger body isn’t a forbidden subject between them; they discuss it in one of the earlier episodes. But Madeline sees her agency and her joy and her hard won wisdom before anything else. I’m so glad we got to see Claudia through Madeline’s eyes, as she would like to be seen, at least once before next weeks’s episode.

@bluedalahorse and I have talked a lot about the queer phenomenon that sometimes happens, when someone’s lover also becomes their mentor and maybe even parental figure, guiding them into queer culture and making up for nuclear family that may have rejected them. I think this is hard coded into the concept of makers and fledglings, and is a big part of why vampirism works so well as a metaphor for queerness, amongst other things. I think this episode did a really good job of exploring the complications of those type of relationships.

[shesnake]

I wanted to know your thoughts on this but do you think it's fair to say either Louis or Armand are abusive in their relationship? Idek if this is a valid angle to view the characters from because I guess they're all monsters or whatever but a part of me thinks that it's kinda lukewarm to refuse to engage with the complicated themes of the show, which abuse is featured heavily and pretty clearly imo. This isn't aimed at you btw. Something I noticed is people tend to use some of Louis's less favorable moments to justify the violence he experiences. Like that post about Armand just matching Louis energy in ep 5, most of the notes are taking the stance that Louis is a cold, unempathic pimp who doesn't care about sa victims, that Armand genuinely is completely right when he says he is always cleaning up after Louis that he was only worried and tenderhearted and Louis escalated in the worst way and that after Louis said that he deserved everything that happened after. And I may be biased but to me that is so fucking crazy. To me it seems like fans, specially nonblack fans, have zero empathy for black abuse victims, actively enacting abuse culture even. But idk if that is a too reactive view. I don't want to say Louis isn't flawed because he is. But I mean we are watching the season about Armand getting Claudia killed on purpose and somehow people are still like Maybe Armand didn't do it, maybe it was all Louis, maybe Louis really asked for it. All of it. I think there's a problem there but idk I kinda feel a little crazy too. Btw disclaimer I fuckin hate Lestat this is not about comparing Loumand/Loustat lol

hi! and wow there is so much to discuss here...

I think it is fair to describe the actions of both Louis and Armand towards each other as abusive by definition but it's always important to remember that it is Armand in the position of greater power over him. Armand is older, stronger, owns dominion. He can walk in the sun, manipulate memories, and live without constant debilitating hunger for blood - all of which are things that impede Louis from being his own person outside of Armand.

Louis also faced this same predicament when he was with Lestat, but unlike Armand who uses his own innate powers against Louis, Lestat mostly used his social advantages of whiteness, wealth etc in addition to withholding key knowledge about vampirism to keep himself in control and Louis dependent on him.

and sure Louis can lash out all he wants! He can mock Armand's sexual trauma (trauma which Armand himself already gets them both to fetishise... but that's a whole different conversation...) he can hit back when Lestat hits him but when he's with either of those guys he is always going to be the victim. Nothing shitty he does to his partners, or to Claudia, or to Daniel, justifies what is being done to him by these men.

There absolutely has to be anti-blackness involved in any argument that says Louis deserves any of this. (Of course Armand as a brown South Asian man is not immune from fandom racism but his treatment is racialised in a different way that is also a different conversation). Any negative behaviour from a Black man is going to be seen by racists as exponentially more aggressive than it is, especially the cross-section with those you mentioned who aren't engaging with the complicated themes of this show exploring abuse.

They can see that Louis yelling at Armand is bad, but don't notice that Armand is being manipulative. They can see that Louis stabbing Lestat that one time during sex is bad (and still sexualise it), but don't notice that Louis is disassociating in every sex scene he has with Lestat afterwards (because they're too busy sexualising it). They can see that Louis making Daniel upset is bad, but don't notice that Daniel has been leveling dozens of racist and homophobic micro-aggressions at him since episode 1.

Armand got a few minutes to tell his tragic backstory in Louvre, Lestat had 2 or 3 different scenes in season 1 to recall his own. It's just been words. Meanwhile racists erase Louis' experiences with trauma because they never had enough fucking empathy for him to begin with to even register it happening to him! on screen! in real time! right in front of us!

And yeah Louis and Armand and Loumand are incredibly complex and compelling, and I do enjoy seeing Louis' moments of cruelty towards Armand! But he's never going to win against him in the game Armand built for him.

And in terms of Claudia, I do think that Louis failed her, as he has always failed her. And is responsible for her death in that regard. But that failure involved letting those other two fucking sharks eat her!!! I personally haven't seen anyone pushing the blame completely off Armand and onto Louis but I wouldn't be surprised. This week I've more pissed off about people levelling it all on Armand and think of Lestat as an unwilling participant.... this is of course the blonde white vampire show....

anyways sorry this is so long! thanks for the message this was really interesting to think about.

[arielthedaydreamer]

Thinking about the vampire chronicles

How the vampires canonically become asexual when they're turned, and lose sexual desire. And yet they remain as passionate as ever.

Still, they never say things like "bf" "gf" "husband" "wife" "he cheated on me" "we broke up". They never explicitly date, get engaged or marry. Instead they vaguely call each other "lover" and "companion". And the word "love" is used so loosely to encompass their centuries old companion as well as the mortal woman Lestat met two days ago.

How Lestat is fascinated by humans. How he describes even strangers so passionately and poetically. No matter the age or level of attractiveness, Lestat finds beauty in them.

How Lestat and Louis partner up in a non sexual relationship, raise a child, and then Louis goes his separate way and how fascinated he becomes by Armand and then they become "companions" and once the passion fades they go separate ways and Armand finds Daniel and turns him and they go separate ways and every relationship is allowed to be temporary yet still poetic and passionate. And the sparkling moment in which teenage aroace me, before I even found out my sexuality, dreamed of a future full of similar relationships. Each exciting, unique, passionate, lasting as long as they need to last, like a flowing river of loving connections.

And no relationship among the vampires is more important than the other. They love and are loved without limiting labels, and they always meet again. Lestat calls everyone his "lover" and is unafraid of expressing his most intense feelings.

I've read Loveless, I watched Heartstopper, but when it comes to making me feel represented, somehow the vampire chronicles still takes the cake, despite not even being intended as aroace representation. It is close to my heart with all drama and weirdness and intensity.

[canonicallysoulmates]

Armand needs Daniel.

Hear me out. Armand desperately wants to be loved and wanted, he also has a lot of trauma and issues due to that trauma, and he is a manipulative little bitch (affectionate).

He needs someone who will call him out on his bullshit while also being willing to listen when he wants to talk about his past. He needs someone who will help him process things and realize the shit that happened to him was not okay and was not his fault. He needs someone who will make him feel confident in a relationship and I mean genuine confidence cause let's be real this man is insecure, he needs that person who will make him feel wanted, important, like a priority.

Daniel knows how to spot his lies. Even as a human, he was not afraid to call him out and talk back to him. He has the emotional maturity that comes with human experience and age.

Also, Armand is a ball of chaos, he needs someone that will help quiet that chaos. He needs someone that will provide some sort of stability to his life.

And, I think not so deep down he wants to be the center of someone's world. Daniel Molloy is the man for that job.

[nightcolorz]

thoughts on the presence of marius’ painting in dubai in the show? ive been thinking about this since episode 7 aired because louis threw a bowl of blood at a painting in one scene which wasn’t marius’, yet made me think it should have been. but its interesting that its there at all? of course they’re art collectors and dealers in 2022 but god. i feel like the painting might end up being a chekov’s gun. it cant be there for nothing, right?

(also the scene of “rashid” armand in s1 telling daniel about it keeps coming back. how did he FEEL about that especially if daniel is indeed someone he loves and has loved for years)

AHHH OMG!!! LOVE THIS QUESTION!! I’ve been thinking about this constantly since s1, which believe it or not spurned some theories about Armand’s relationship with Louis that ended up being surprisingly accurate 😭. I can’t tell u how many times I rewatched the Rashid-mand tells Daniel about marius’s painting scene before s2 aired (definitely more than any other scene in the first season 💀💀). Ughhh!! omg!! U r so right 😭😭 the painting Louis threw the blood at should have been Marius’s. The thematic implications!!! The impact!! The way Armand would feel!! It’s making me crazy thinking about it

I speculate that Armand is trying to seek out and reclaim as many of Marius’s painting as possible. I imagine that Armand acquired the painting in the dining room by searching intently for any paintings of Marius’s that survived the fire. Part of him likely feels entitled to them. Legally he’s just Marius’s slave, but the way he sees it it’s so much deeper than that. Marius is his father, his husband. He should be given his possessions, his works of art, after he’s died. And I think the fact that Armand, by both historical records, and by anyone he knows, will always be viewed as Marius’s slave, his victim, before he is Marius’s closest loved one, feels disempowering and invalidating. Technically, if they weren’t vampires and legal consideration was given to who Marius’s possessions should be given to after his death, as a slave Armand likely wouldn’t be considered. But, Armand believes that because of the role Marius had in his life, he is rightfully owed that inheritance. And the symbolic value of that fact is important to him.

I think sometimes the show fandom doesn’t realize how attached to Marius Armand actually is 😭. If they’re going by the books, Armand is longing for Marius and for Venice. Marius is the love of his life the same way Lestat is the love of Louis’s life (maybe even more so considering he’s not just his lover but his father 😭 Marius played every major role in Armand’s life, he was his father, his lover, his maker and his god). Armand is stuck on him, he is always longing for him, never able to move on. So I think for Armand owning paintings of Marius’s is partly an assertion and a reclamation of the way he perceives his relationship with him. By owning them and displaying them on his wall, not only is he allowing himself to live with a comforting reminder of Venice (which I’ll get to), but hes also asserting that Marius loved him, and he was important to Marius, and he deserves to and is entitled to owning his paintings after Marius has died because he is the person who these things should go to, he is displaying that he is the most important person to Marius, that he is the person who would be in his will.

on the Venice note, Armand is also indulging in a small little fantasy by putting Marius’s paintings on his wall. He lived with those paintings, his father likely painted them while he was in the room. He saw them in the halls in the palazzo, maybe even in his lavish old dining room. In the books Venice was and continues to be Armand’s perceived “best part of his life”. Venice was his childhood, the only time in his life he remembers being taken care of, well fed, spoiled, loved. And from our perspective it was horrible, he was being sexually abused and beaten regularly, literally pimped out and enslaved. But think about how Armand told his story to Louis, he was smiling wistfully, longing despite it all. And I think even in Dubai Armand misses Venice, feels comforted by the memory of it. So it makes sense that he would hang Marius’s painting on the wall, as a small comfort, so that maybe sometimes he can stare at it and picture he is back there, in his master’s studio, basking in the sunlight, loved.

The scene where Armand as Rashid shows the painting to Daniel is so so loaded. Daniel initiates the conversation, but Armand definitely indulges in it more than he needs to. That scene is the first time we rlly see Armand using his Rashid persona to tap into his past. He says, “I serve a God, it’s my honor to serve” which is fucking weird 😭 and no one but Armand would say that (real rashid wouldn’t💀 he definitely sees the vampires in a way that is more grounded and empathy based then god like). He’s clearly tapping into how he felt as Amadeo, a servant to Marius, rather than playing his part. It seems like Daniels interest in the painting and him talking about + bringing attention to it brought Armand back to that Venice mindset in a way. Even with this, he’s definitely pushing Daniel away, trying to change the topic as quickly as possible while remaining in character. Which makes me think that Armand wasn’t happy at the prospect of being so vulnerable with Daniel so soon. The impression I get (especially from season one) is that despite his past and current love for him, Armand sees a different person in old Daniel, and is very hesitant to open himself up to him. Considering how different (and mean) he is, and how painful and loaded their past was, it’s a very hard thing for Armand to approach, and it doesn’t seem currently on his agenda.

What I rlly am curious about is how Louis feels about Armand keeping Marius’s paintings in their home, displaying them on their wall. I imagine it would be uncomfortable for him, if not upsetting, in a similar way to how Armand feels about the presence of ghost Lestat, if not more complicated with the layer of how extremely abusive Marius was. But how can Louis judge? Who is he to give push back on smth like this when he is still actively hallucinating his dead, abusive ex husband 😭🙏there’s a lot going on there.

I rlly hope this painting thing gets explored in depth bcus omg I can not stop thinking about it either. Thank u SO MUCH for the ask I love this topic so much omg!!! Hope my response scratches the painting itch in ur brain<3

[nalyra-dreaming]

daniel got the journalist dream in a full archive of information about his subjects. made me giggle when he stopped listening to loumand’s love story to get a look at the files.

since 2x01 i’ve been thinking about who is buying the Bacon triptych, thought it would come back into play and it did. now i can’t shake the feeling an important character will make an introduction in present day through that acquisition, and clearly they’re not alone.

could this be lestat or marius? who knows, but i got this inkling the past coming for loumand.

my heart breaks for claudia. everyone, including louis, is withholding information from her.

she has done so much for louis, helping him survive and now even telling him what happened with bruce and he hasn’t told her about dreamstat. that’s the painful, if not also abusive(?) side of their relationship. he takes but doesn’t give back in equal measure. he loves her but not enough to save her.

The lawyer in the video call says "the buyer wants it for her husband, she probably googled what questions she should ask".

That could, of course, be a deflection.

If it isn't I do wonder who that buyer will turn out to be, because I agree it will be important.

I do not agree with your assessment of Louis and Claudia.

Claudia can literally see Lestat in Louis' mind if she so chooses, and her behavior (and remarks) towards him make me believe that she can. He does not need to tell her.

And she only told him about Bruce when she was using that experience (and, oh damn, the parallels!!) to form an origin story for the two of them. That was no opening up for them to get closer, she was using what she had experienced (which is her good right, no shade here, but it was not for Louis).

Also... she may have helped him survive, but she also dragged him onto that quest he did not want to go on, he wanted to go home (and back to Lestat). He did not want to kill Lestat in the first place.

And as per your last comment - did we watch the same show? Rewatch the sewer scene and then that kiss and the discussion after.

Because Louis is literally throwing himself into that relationship as a bargaining chip on her behalf there (and his own), because Armand almost killed him there (and he even pulled out the promise Armand had made!!) and has said quite plainly that Claudia would not be around for long.

Look at his face there before

and after the kiss

Enthusiasm is something else. And then that little exchange:

"You wanna come upstairs" "Are you inviting me in?" "Depends… are you gonna kill me?"

And then him waiting for Armand:

Look at his face (unfortunately the image itself is very small there).

Look at him. The way he holds his body. Lips pressed together, jaw clenched.

He's sooooooooooo hApPy - not. 💀

It's no wonder AMC did not promote Loumand, honestly, though I had not expected them to go this dark, this soon. Holy shit.

And, btw, this takes another spin onto the "Judas Kiss" painting and actual kiss later - because it ties it with this one, and the promise inherent in it.

Because I think when that little kiss onto Louis' cheek happens Claudia's protection... will be revoked.

[icystorm76]

I’m stuck in this intense cycle of “Oh my god Interview is going to be on Netflix I hope I blows up.” And “Oh my god if this show blows up then the fandom is going to get SO BAD”

I love this fandom as it is. There is some drama and discourse (looking at you Marius) but for the most people at least respect that the books and show are complicated and people can come away with different takes. There are a few bad apples but not so much that you can’t block them. People seem to respect that even if you don’t ship the same things those ships are still valid. My worst nightmare is a giant fandom and the black and white picture that comes with it.

The larger the fandom the more discourse there is and OH MAN does Interview have room for discourse. The nuance of Loustat and Loumand and Devils minion (to a lesser extent) are so important and the generally gray morality of most characters leads to a situation where things can turn very ugly very fast.

A list of my worst case scenario predictions:

- Lestat and/or Armand are deemed extremely problematic and shipping them with Louis is seen as a major red flag.

- Claudia and Madeline’s relationship is bashed, likely due to age difference.

-Armand is written off as a completely unredeemable monster (and subsequently Devils minion is written off as abusive and toxic)

- Daniel is either lauded as a perfect beacon of truth or a random old guy with very little importance or a pervert.

- FUCKING RACISM. This is my main sticking point. Large fandoms can get really fucking racist and with 3/5 main characters being POC things could get really shitty.

Those are just my worst case scenarios, but I think it’s worth thinking about. I don’t endorse gatekeeping and I absolutely love new people getting into the show (at this point I’ve forced 3 people to watch it with me), but we need to let people know that that shit, ESPECIALLY racism, sexism and homophobia is absolutely not something we will tolerate.