#anyways. listen to the vengeance saga

[friedmagazinebouquet]

My original reaction to Poseidon's bit where he says "I'll take your son and gouge his eyes" etc etc was along the lines of "that seems a bit unnecessary, what did Telemachus do" and then I went wait, that was exactly what Odysseus did

It took me a bit too long to realize that that line was essentially implying Poseidon returning the favour, an eye for an eye

[scyllas-dogs]

well anniflamma may have too much dignity to draw poseidon getting backshots but I sure dont. here we go

EDIT: my pizza hands got slapped so now its up on blusky thank u

[mythology-void]

love watching odysseus fluctuate violently between suicidal depression and all-consuming homicidal fury like look at him go

[baambastic]

NOT THE EMPTY PAUSE IN DANGEROUS’S REPRISE OF FULL SPEED AHEAD WHERE HIS CREW ORIGINALLY SANG

[logicallyblind]

my favourite thing about odysseus’ story is that it’s so easy to go “he should have just killed the cyclops and none of this would have happened, he was too prideful in his existence!”

but it’s also so easy to forget, at least while listening to the musical, that he just went through ten years of a brutal and bloody war.

it’s easy to forget in the face of all he went through during his journey, that even at the beginning of his story as we see it, he was already a heavily traumatised general who just participated in one of the most bloody wars of their history and he just, wanted to stop using his hands to cause pain. he wanted to stop killing, to stop hurting others, to just even begin to merge back into the man he was when he left Penelope.

and he was punished so heavily for that, that it hurts my soul

yes he was also had an ego problem amongst other things but shhh rn

[sugargliderowl]

I just realized that the “Dangerous” theme in the background is the same run as the one in “God Games” that they use to introduce the gods in the beginning right as Aphrodite is introduced or when Zeus starts getting angry

[brainrotcharacters]

"You didn't stop when I begged you!"

[ladysqueakinpip]

not me lying wide awake at 5:30am on a sunday on my day off bc after almost a full year I finally FINALLY realized the implication of the end of remember them from the cyclops saga

[shinedoitsulikeabright]

Oh, you just KNOW he prepared that little monologue of his weeks in advance... That's why he didn't attack immediately after Ody blinded Polyphemus.

Dude Poseidon waited 7 straight years for Odysseus that kind of obsession

He really wants him all by himself and amiphitrite is going to be piss

Amphitrite is just pissed he won't shut it she doesn't give a shit about ody

@t4m3-simp

[epicthemusicalstuff]

My Thoughts On The Vengeance Saga!

I’m Not Sorry For Loving You: I feel we pretty much had the full song before hand? So it’s not too much new? But the vocals were so pretty!! Definitely the most grounded song in the saga!

Dangerous: First of all- the little Full Speed Ahead? With the 600 men bit? That had me so emotional already- the fact that there was no response when he said ‘with one goal in mind’ and there was a silence where they normally would have said ‘make it back alive to our homeland’. THEN HERMES IS BACK! WITH THE WINIONS???? AND THEY HAVE THE BAG AGAIN FOR HIM??? I went crazy over that- did they get Aeolus’ help? Did the winions go rogue and since they liked Odysseus they trapped it themselves??? Anyways. RUTHLESSNESS MENTION.

Charybdis: I love the overall vibe of this song! Again- very much like the snippets we heard- but that doesn’t make it less awesome! (I will also say I loved durning the animatic when he started getting all blurred with his speed). HE SAW ITHACA AND IT WAS SO TOUCHING THEN HE DIDNT GET TO GET THERE YET!!!

Get In The Water: I LOVE THE OPENING INSTRUMENTAL PART. CHILLS. I was screaming- I still am screaming as I relisten to it! POLITES, EURYLOCHUS, AND ANYICLEA JUMPSCARE! One of the songs that I feel so much better about listening to this morning, with just the music and none of the chaos of last night or the stream.

Six Hundred Strike: Okay- lots of thoughts on this one folks- the Six Hundred Men being chanted part? Amazing- does that count as when I said the vocals of his crew would be back? HE WILL GET BACK TO HIS SON. AND HE WILL GET BACK TO HIS WIFE. He avenged his comrades!!!!

Speaking from a position of just listening to the song instead of the provided visuals- I visualize something different happening. Like in terms of the wind bag, I like the idea it is used to blow away the layers of Poseidons water shell- to leave just him in the middle. And then the 600 Strike bit- perhaps the ghosts of all his crew appear and each get their own strike at Poseidon, with Odysseus dealing the last one before Poseidon starts singing again?

YOU IDIOT got me. THE ODYSSEUS’ WENT ABSOLUTELY FERAL? STABBING POSEIDON??? LIKE WHAT? I WAS SCREAMING- the raw vocals were amazing too-

NEXT TO MY WIFE

[tapwater-made-everyone-gay]

!!!SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN’T LISTENED TO THE VENGEANCE SAGA OF EPIC THE MUSICAL!!!

I find it really interesting that people are so upset about the Poseidon loss, using “it’s weird that a mortal beat a god” when the whole thing with gods in Greek mythology is that they’re parallels to humans. That’s why they have emotions, human anatomy, feel pain, and bleed (even if it is ichor that comes out). There are multiple cases of gods being beaten by humans, primarily demigods, but still humans—MORTALS. What makes them so powerful is their domain. Take that away? They’re practically powerless.

Poseidon is shown to be arrogant, claiming that the only reason he’s still hunting Odysseus (DESPITE killing his men, teaching his lesson, and even likely knowing about the brutal siren deaths) is because “the top dog can’t be seen letting his prey go. How else can I send the message that I’m a big dog? It’ll ruin my reputation!” He’s a cocky bastard, playing with his prey, telling Odysseus to get in the water because it’s more entertaining to him than just getting his revenge and killing him then and there. He talks like he’s never felt pain in his life and doesn’t think he ever will because “the top dog is untouchable”.

But he forgets that he needs his domain, needs his range to keep himself from losing. When Odysseus pulls the same trick with the wind bag (which he should’ve seen coming), he isn’t ready, because he’s never had to fight that fight. Odysseus has, and he has the anger to push himself farther. The god gets downed (which has happened many times with many gods as discussed earlier), and he still acts cocky. Odysseus opened the bag. He can’t leave. But that knowledge—knowledge that he’s stuck here and will eventually die anyway—allows Odysseus to make his decision. He can hurt Poseidon for as long as he’s capable of, make him suffer just as much because, hey, he’s going to die anyway, right?

Now, Poseidon has an out. He can get rid of the storm before Odysseus even lays a hand on him, let him go home, and flood Ithaca like planned. But he doesn’t, because he’s so in his own head that he doesn’t realize the position he’s in. And then Odysseus makes the first stab, and then the other. It hurts, even more because, like I said, Poseidon has probably never felt this pain before. And Odysseus doesn’t plan on stopping, not until Poseidon calls off the storm. He’ll go until his arms stop working, and if Poseidon hadn’t given in, he probably would’ve.

Poseidon can’t stop him either because the wounds are made before the others can heal. Does this punishment seem familiar? It should, because it’s the exact same one given to Prometheus by Zeus. Truthfully, it’s a punishment made for a god.

I should probably stop here because this has gone on way too long, but I do understand why some people might think it’s weird. We’re raised to believe that any god is untouchable, that they’re all-powerful and incapable of harm, especially at human hands. But that’s not Greek mythology. Gods aren’t capable of death, but they are capable of suffering, and a lot of them do. Just because the one suffering this time is one of the “big three” doesn’t mean it’s unrealistic.

Epic’s message isn’t the same as the original, and it never has been. It’s about what you’re willing to sacrifice, how far you’re willing to go for your own gain, and what the repercussions are when you do. Poseidon really kick started that message hard, and I think it’s poetic that it ends with him facing the outcome of that message himself.

Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves, but it’s not the same being on the receiving end, is it?

[rosesandashs-blog]

I didn’t expect so many people to be caught up on the realism of Odysseus defeating Poseidon LMAO I just thought it was cool.

I thought maybe the rushed complaints had some merit behind them but I relistened this morning and it feels like a full and complete saga. Even Charybdis, which I thought felt too short, sounded much better with a second listen. I think the listening party kinda rushed through songs but maybe I’m just crazy? Anyways I really love the vengeance saga. It was solid and it makes me really excited for Ithaca because now we know Odysseus has gone completely off the deep end.

The part where Odysseus is just torturing the hell outta Poseidon had some amazing vocals and I’m not sorry for loving you was so good and so very sad (and hopefully will prevent further Epic!Calypso mischaracterization holy moly!) dangerous was a very solid fun song to offset the rest of the vibe.

However, I think I’m basically with every other hive mind. 600 strike was my favorite. The second parts was equally sad and ruthless because I think you can tell Odysseus really doesn’t want to torture Poseidon imo. (“Look what you turned me into” “haven’t I suffered enough?”)

All I know is that I’m excited to see the different interpretations from my favorite artists. A lot of good action scenes.

[saixria]

I’m not usually opposed to hcs but this “Ares used dark quick thought to help Odysseus in 600 strike” and other divine intervention theories are getting OUT OF HAND ITS THE BANE OF MY EXISTENCE (TLDR at the end)

To start, Vengeance saga hit as hard as it did because Odysseus is all alone. Just listen to the intro of dangerous, the pause where the crew should’ve sung in response like in Full Speed Ahead. Because of all the choices he’s made, he’s fully alone now, and this is the first time he’s ever had to fight without his crew. Charybdis being a mortal facing up against a huge unsurvivable monster AND WINNING is what makes it so POWERFUL, and same goes with GITW/ 600 Strike. It’s the most impactful as a 1v1, Odysseus facing the cause of all his grief throughout the musical, he himself delivering every blow onto Poseidon on behalf of his dead crew. It’s CATHARTIC for him, and for us as the audience, because it’s a perfect ending to what Poseidon started in Ruthlessness when he taught Odysseus to be ruthless.

Dark Quick Thought also just kinda. Cheapens his character development. Dark quick thought inherently causes rage according to Jorge, basically making them more ruthless. If we relegate the reason Odysseus was so enraged and ruthless in straight up torturing Poseidon to Ares’ Dark Quick Thought, that just makes all the build up of Odysseus learning to use ruthlessness and to be a monster worthless. Dark QT isn’t why he’s acting so cold and ruthless; it’s all that he’s endured, forcing him to transform into a monster that disregards all morals just to get home, just to survive. It was Odysseus’ own decision to become a monster, like he literally said “I’m gonna use ruthlessness” in the song Dangerous, not because of any Dark QT influence. The fact that all his rage is coming only from himself, from his grief and exhaustion, and not Dark QT makes this moment all the more haunting.

The fact that this is the climax of his transformation is, and I’m not joking when I say this, illustrated by the line “next to my wife”. The whole musical “sleeplessness” (lol) has always been an indicator of guilt. E.g. “until it is said I cannot rest” “I no longer dream only nightmares of those who died” “I could sleep at night” etc. Even in LiP he was still haunted by guilt, since he’s trapped in Ogygia it feels like all he’s sacrificed has been completely worthless — he killed his whole crew for nothing. His response to Poseidon asking him how he’d sleep at night was “next to my wife”, showing he’s truly “thrown his guilt away” all to get home to see his wife — the only thing he cares about now.

Last thing, the gods just don’t like directly interfering in each others business. Hermes gave Odysseus a windbag and advice but that was it, hes still on his own at the end of the day. There’s a reason for why Athena didn’t ask Zeus to tell Poseidon to chill, why Hermes didn’t directly beat Zeus up for Odysseus. That helps make God Games MORE IMPACTFUL, because here are the gods, stubborn and set in their ways against directly helping mortals, and here’s Athena going through the trouble to request divine intervention ANYWAY, all for her friend. It makes no sense for any other god to randomly come and help Odysseus when they don’t even know the man.

I have no problem with people having fun imagining what would happen if the gods had helped Odysseus fight Poseidon, I’m just really frustrated bc I see so many people say this is “what actually happened” or “what should’ve happened” instead of being a fun hypothetical. There is no proof at all that any other gods came to help Odysseus in 600 Strike; the red eyes in the animatic is literally just symbolic and acts as contrast to Poseidon’s blue glowing gills on his shirt during the darkened torture scene.

TLDR: Direct divine intervention in 600 strike makes Odysseus’ isolation less impactful, cheapens his transformation into a ruthless monster and is just not realistic for the gods to do since they don’t interfere with each others business much.

[fantasy-nerdddd]

SPOILERS FOR THE VENGEANCE HERMES SAGA

What I find remarkable about 600 Strike, specifically the torture scene, is that it had no parallels.

Okay, let me explain. It isn't that there weren't any parallels, but other than the Different Beast instrumental (edit: it's a theme actually) at the beginning of that scene and whatever is said specifically to hurt the other, there are no parallels. Think about it - Ody has been absolutely traumatised and broken by everything, that's a main point of the song. One would expect that while acting as ruthlessly as he did, he'd have a flashback to something. Just A Man? Open Arms? My Goodbye? Ruthlessness? No Longer You? Monster? No matter what song, something would be on the song normally, probably in Love In Paradise or Monster type. You'd expect the finale to have a lot of parallels.

It could definitely be due to pure coldness. But I don't like that idea. So...

If you listen to the song, you'll notice that he mentions a ton of friends. But none appear. I'm thinking it's because he's either lashing out or straight up keeping himself from remembering.

He doesn't want to remember the dead. He keeps himself from thinking too much about them. That way, he might not be as pained. Not as shamed. Bottling everything up is normal for traumatised people, even to the point you convince yourself.

The second theory is the opposite. He's lashing out. All of his pain, grief, guilt, anger and fear were directed into Poseidon's chest. He didn't have to think about things that saddened him for relief. For a little. He's letting out some of the bad feelings by torturing the second most responsible man for his crew's lives - right after himself

Anyway, that is just my thoughts. What do you think?

EDIT: Ok Jorge you did not just prove me wrong like that. Go to 2:48 on the song and listen really closely. Or I guess you could go to an instrumental. When "You didn't stop when I begged you" starts playing, around the "begged", there's Tiresias' theme. It ends with Poseidon's "Alright", I believe. OKAY BUT TIRESIAS OUT OF ALL PEOPLE. Did he see this on his vision? If so, how in the world did he not spoil anything? I would never manage I'd break out laughing while singing. Did he not see this and the instrumental defines the very moment Odysseus finally changes into a total monster? Is it just a reminder at the back of his mind that he's proven the prophecy right? Or, the more promising, everything in the prophecy that doesn't include being at Ithaca has happened. He's finally getting home. I'm not even sad to be proven wrong because that's genius.

[room-temperature-orange-juice]

Okay…I’m Not Sorry For Loving You is out…

[superkooku]

Have you listened/watched epic? And if you have what’s your thoughts?

Personally I think it’s a good thing to show to a friend new to Greek mythology. I just finished watching the last saga and I have to say I loved it, beautiful. Sad it ended tho :(

It might not be very accurate but I love the hardwork the cast put into it and so I love it very much

My thoughts on Epic the musical

So yes, I know about Epic. I even participated in the secret santa thing and am what we may call 'a winion'.

I just finished watching the livestream too ! I especially loved seeing the cast members were reacting to the sagas (Luke Holt was so funny in this 🤣. Also, Jorge carrying Mico like a baby in 'Just a man' and Mason being extra the whole time... so many gems in that livestream)

Since Epic is finished AND I have animatics of the Ithaca saga, I'll use this opportunity to make a more in-depth review of the musical. Instead of separating it in "good" or "bad", I'm reviewing it criteria per criteria.

The cast

Like I previously said, I LOVE the cast chemistry. They're all so fun and lively. I follow some of them separately, like Janani or Troy Doherty, and they're just delightful. Especially Troy as Hermes, he always manages to make me laugh. Every single time 😂.

Also, he gives me a bit of Mettaton vibes since he's extravagant, always over the top and a bit self-absorbed (the Hermes persona, I mean, not Troy Doherty himself). Maybe that's why I like him so much :3

And of course, there's Jorge, mr. Jalapeño, the man with the plan. I love how both passionate and humble he is, how he takes the time to thank everyone and just how much of a bundle of positive energy he is. I know it's an internet persona, but what I can see from him is some hopefully really nice guy in real life too.

Anyways, awesome cast chemistry, everyone made me laugh and they're all having a good time.

The music

This music is so beautiful 🥰. All the motifs, the emotions, the instruments, the voices ! If I had to rate Epic from the music alone, it would be 5 stars. I'm not saying this in a professional angle or anything, it's my personal feeling.

Seriously, I don't really have that much to say about the music because, to me, it's just that good. I love the variety, how different instruments synch themselves and, yeah.

The characters

Annnnd that's where the blind positive praise stops, unfortunately 😂.

Don't get me wrong, it's not awful either and there are good points. My favorite Epic characters are Hermes and Athena.

The rest ? It's mixed. In order not to make this too long, I'll focus on only some of them.

The story is very character-driven so I won't really delve into it in detail.

Odysseus : he's a good protagonist, especially in the first act. His dilemma is interesting, he has a strong personality and I like that he is just a broken man and not some mighty overlord... except in the Thunder and Vengeance sagas. I feel Jorge exaggerated the monster message a bit too much, imo. Odysseus is supposed to be a witty liar, a warrior of the mind. Not someone like Achilles who solves problems by fighting or fights gods like Heracles, much less freaking Poseidon.

Poseidon : okay ! I liked him in the first act, because FINALLY Poseidon isn't a surfer dude. He's a terrifying force of nature that was angered by mortal hubris (though the hubris thing isn't explained by Epic). In Get in the water, he kept his intimidating side. Because he's, yk, the king of the oceans, one of the most powerful Olympian gods. But his defeat partially ruined him for me 😂. It just doesn't make sense. Why is Odysseus afraid of Scylla and even tip-toes around Hermes, who is friendly, when he can stabby-stab Poseidon ? Why didn't Poseidon counterattack? So many questions.

Zeus : my problem with Zeus is easier to explain. Again, he was awesome in the first act, less so in the second. What I loved initially is how regal he was. Powerful, intimidating, kingly, but not evil either. He warns Odysseus of the gods' will and of fate, which always realizes itself in mythology. In Thunder Bringer, he's fine. His lustful and flighty side is shown, but we could interpret his intervention as avenging Helios and punishing the ones who ate the cows, instead of "Zeus is evil". But in God Games ? He's so pettyyyyy and childish. Where is the kingly attitude ? This "Beast Zeus" should come against Kronos or Typhon, or maybe when Athena and the others threatened his position. Not after a freaking game ! He just strikes Athena with thunder because she won fair and square. At LEAST Luke Holt absolutely killed it, so it's cool to listen to.

Penelope : she's underdeveloped :( . Okay, her bond with Odysseus was respected, they're adorable together. On her own ? Eh, she's fine. Which is a shame because she simply didn't have enough room to exist outside of Odysseus. Also, the fact that she doesn't interact once with her son is criminal imo.

I do have some other issues with characters like Circe and Calypso (basically they're declawed compared to the Odyssey), whereas I'm completely fine with others like Eurylochus, Telemachus or every god except Zeus and Poseidon. Though they're not perfectly accurate either but I don't have problems with them.

The crew in general is also underdeveloped, so I didn't feel much for them (until discovering the scrapped Elpenor and Perimedes songs/lh). They played their roles correctly.

I hated the suitors (that's a positive in Epic) and laughed when Antinous died. Though I wished they were more pathetic and less threatening. Musically it'd be worse but story-wise more fitting.

The story

Overall, it's fine. Most of the best points come from the Odyssey itself, the one change I liked the most was having Odysseus and Poseidon meet (not the way it ended though).

Also, story-wise, I prefer act 1 over act 2, because it's less over the place and more grounded.

But emotion-wise and music-wise, forgetting about the Odyssey, act 2 wins the cake.

Those were my thoughts on Epic :3

I tried not to judge it too much according to the Odyssey and some of my friends are more demanding on that plan (for perfectly legitimate reasons btw). But it's hard to separate Epic from the wonderful work of Homer and it's lacking in some areas.

Still, this journey was very fun, I love all the passion Jorge, the singers and the animatic artists put in, there are a lot of good things about it (I can't mention everything). I don't want to rate it because it's too rigid of a system. I listen to the songs on loop and, ultimately, I'm thankful Epic exists :)

I may come back to this post and reblog stuff if I have new relevant thoughts to add. I'll probably rank the sagas in another post.