#anti-zerith

[elegantwoes]

I don’t get why certain people desperately want Aerith to be forever beholden to her teenage boyfriend and not move after being separated for five years. Not only is it extremely unrealistic to expect her to love only him but also puts another iconic final fantasy romantic couple to question. It’s like saying Rinoa love for Squall doesn’t exist simply because she loved Seifer before. Just like she moved Aerith moved on too.

[roeyliteratiforever]

For all the Zerith lovers that are sad about Zack and Aerith's story in rebirth and how angsty it was, don't lose hope! I really do still think there's a strong chance we will see their reunion and most likely official endgame along with Cloti! For sure we will see a Cloti end game, but I still think we will get Zerith too that will just be a bonus! The fact that so many Clerith fans were saying "oh the theme song is for Cloud/Aerith" but it was debunked and it was said that the song was for everyone Aerith loves! They aren't going to show Aerith still pining over Zack in Remake projecting her relationship with him onto Cloud and have Zack all of rebirth taking care of his woman, and show him madly in love with her to ruin that for Cloud who has been actively pursuing Tifa the entire game! When Cloud and Aerith are having their final date the whole date is a reenactment of her date with Zack and her calling the church "our" place I don't think she was even meaning her and Cloud's place because it wasn't it was her and Zack's place they spent so much time there, Cloud fell into the church but he didn't meet Aerith there, and they barely spent time there. Also it really felt like they both came to an understanding of how they felt about each other and they loved each other in a platonic way! I also think Marlene telling Zack about Aerith's feelings for Cloud and how well Zack handled is a testament to his character and how genuine he is and how he just wants her to be happy, and an even bigger testament to how much he loves her! Even when Zack is sitting in the church and says who's to say they can't unite again! I really genuinely believe they will reunite in the third game but they were saving them for last and giving Clerith's an inch to keep them interested but I strongly feel we will see both a Cloti and Zerith official endgame in the final installment! Don't lose hope my lovely Zerith lovers, I really think it will happen!

[ships-n-bats]

Yeah, the more I really look at Zerith’s whole relationship, the more skeevy it feels to me. 

Not skeevy in a “Zack’s a predator” kind of way, but more in a “Zack doesn’t respect Aerith as a person or partner” kind of way. Regardless of whether or not the two were officially dating or not, him having other women on the side still looks bad and shows a lack of respect towards Aerith and her feelings.

Even if one were to try and argue that “Aerith was Zack’s favorite” like it suggests when he says, “Out of all the girls I’ve gotten along with, you truly are the best.” it still doesn’t change the fact that he still flirted with other girls even when he and Aerith were involved together.

Especially since this kind of line is something a player/womanizer would use when trying to make a girl feel special. It gives off major “You’re not like the other girls. You’re better. You’re special.” It’s meant to flatter the girl and make her feel like he’ll drop all the other girls just for her… even though he was considering other girls at the time.

And that single interaction where Aerith calls him out for his behavior and is lowkey rejecting his advances just solidifies his skeeviness to me. He still tries to rizz her up and play into their past interactions in the hopes of convincing her they can “try again” and downplays his past flirty nature with a, “I’m nice to everyone.”

Yeah, and you’re especially nice to the ladies, Zack. 🙄

Even when she now loves another and only has eyes for Cloud, not him, he still says, “But whenever you feel lonely, call me Aerith.” Which, I’m assuming is supposed to be read as a sweet gesture with him offering a shoulder or ear if she needs one, but feels more like a guy telling a lonely girl to come to him because then she’ll be more desperate and vulnerable around him. Another typical player tactic.

Her response only solidifies this to me, as Aerith cooly responds with a, “Only if I get really lonely.”which just sounds like she’s telling him, “Yeah right, only if I’m desperate enough.”

Aerith is very introspective on her and Zack’s past “thing” and has come to the mature conclusion that not only does she no longer have feelings for him, but that certain traits of his are to be avoided (which is why she compares him to Cloud). She knows what she wants in a relationship and the traits she values in her partner, and Zack does not fit into them. Even when told to his face that she doesn’t like that aspect about him and that she has concerns over it, Zack tries to play it off and deflect, while still leaving the door open for any future possibility of them rekindling what little they had.

Even when it’s glaringly obvious the girl ain’t interested and has moved onto another guy entirely. One of whom she’s said she’s grown to love even more than she initially did towards Zack.

Aerith “liked” Zack, but they weren’t ever actually “dating”. They never kissed or anything like that. It was just a one-sided crush from Aerith.

[protemporescitor]

"But she ded tho" (a.k.a. the dumbest argument against Clerith) - A rant

To expand on my previous post, in which I posited the crazy, far-fetched theory that in a fantasy setting mayhap death is not the relationship brick wall that it would be in a more grounded, realistic one*, I just want to bring up a few points to further buttress this off-the-wall notion.

"Cloud can't be with Aerith. She's dead!"

We've all heard it a thousand times. It is the argument most commonly levelled against Clerith. It is also the worst (and laziest) one.

It's often delivered in a declamatory and glib fashion, as though it were some sort of obvious conversation ender. Q.E.D. End of debate. The ultimate gotcha. "Checkmate, Clerith fans!" the haters think to themselves, chortling and patting themselves on their backs for this profound insight. (Insert tasteless and juvenile comments about Aerith being "shish kebab-ed" by Sephiroth as desired.)

And all I can think is "That's it? That's your best argument? That's some weak tea, man."

Despite its myriad flaws, this idea continues to radiate throughout the fandom a good quarter century after the original title's release, as though it had never once been challenged. It is a feeble and untenable position, a house built on sand, and one that deserves to be thoroughly demolished. With Rebirth on the horizon, and all the shipping wars nonsense rising from the grave once more as a result, it is high time, if you'll forgive the expression, that we laid this cliché to rest once and for all.

(*Note: Even in a more "realistic" setting lacking any kind of fictional afterlife, this would still be a gross oversimplification of the story's themes of loss, regret, and yearning, as well as entirely ignoring the idea of love transcending death, but we'll set those concerns aside for the time being.)

Lastly, before we begin: This is not an anti-Zerith / CloTi screed. Those pairings both have an undeniable canonical basis. My aim here is simply to demonstrate that the notion that Cloud and Aerith are forever separated by death is rendered invalid by virtue of the type of setting that their story takes place in. (Something that, frankly, one would reasonably assume to be perfectly obvious. Alas, such is not the case. And so I find myself yet again pointing out the glaringly obvious.)

Now, without further ado, let's begin:

Part 1. Before (the Compilation) Crisis

In the beginning, there was the year 1997, and Squaresoft had just released their latest title. And lo, it was good. We spent days and weeks following our favorite polygon people around their embattled little globe. We fought, laughed, cried, and struggled up until the Meteor Crisis reached its crescendo, and the credits rolled. Gosh, what an ending! But what did it all mean? How did things REALLY turn out? Did we get a happy ending at all?

According to some, Cloud lived happily ever after with his childhood sweetheart, Tifa. According to others, he continued to roam the earth in search of his Promised Land to be reunited with his tragic lost love, Aerith. Yuffie swiped everyone's materia (again). Cid finally went to the moon. Red XIII opened a haberdashery in Costa del Sol, or something. No-one really knows for sure.

And so, the fandom began to spread to every corner of the internet in search of answers. Thus began the age of dissension. Opinions clashed across fanzines, blogs, and fanfic country alike. Wild fan theories abounded pertaining to special codes, methods, and blood rituals capable of bringing back our erstwhile flower girl. The fan-made media bubble surrounding the game turned into a lawless land of misinformation and vicious disagreement. None were spared.

A brief digression on why said rumours persisted for as long as they did (CAUTION: Massive spoilers for Chrono Trigger).

One side proposed a simple solution. A way to cut the proverbial Gordian Knot of our fandom. It was quite obvious, really. Just staring everyone in the face. The flower girl was dead, and that was that. Thus, there was only one possible conclusion to our narrative. Cloud's feelings on the matter were, of course, irrelevant. With Aerith out of the picture, the only logical choice left to him was to settle down with Tifa, and that was that. Never mind the themes of doomed, tragic love and the possibility, strongly hinted at throughout the game and outright confirmed during its ending, of existence after death.

Overall, direct evidence for said afterlife was scant, but not entirely absent from the story. As an example, at one point during her childhood, Aerith speaks to Elmyra, trying to comfort her, saying that the spirit of her husband wanted to come visit her, confirming that an afterlife presence did indeed exist. But for some, this simply wasn't evidence enough. And so the war raged on. Which brings us to…

Part 2. Advent Children: The smoking gun

Remember back when a certain portion of the fan base insisted that Gaia erased all the humans at the end of the story, on the flimsy basis that we don't see any during the game's brief post-credit scene? Well, that little theory was neatly undone by subsequent releases in the Compilation, showing regular ol' humans still roaming around Gaia in all their everyday human-ness. Hence, it is rarely brought up these days. Would that the pernicious notion of "but she ded tho" could follow in its footsteps, given that the same film roundly contradicts it in every way possible.

For starters, the film inexplicably bring two characters, Rufus and Tseng, hitherto assumed to be dead, back to life, probably in an effort by Square to shoehorn as many recognizable members of the cast into their animated feature as they could. But that's not all. Next we have three characters that everyone agreed were deader than doornails ALSO making appearances, first in flashbacks, and then directly influencing the world of the living. Zack speaks to and encourages Cloud during his struggle. Aerith reaches out to him (quite literally) from beyond the grave and assists him in defeating Bahamut. And of course Sephiroth pops back into existence just in time for his contractually-obligated boss fight near the end of the film. All three demonstrate quite clearly and definitively that death is not the impenetrable barrier to continuing interactions between the living and the dead in the world of Final Fantasy VII, as a certain segment of the fan base would have everyone believe it is.

To be blunt, I don't know what level of dense you'd have to be to keep up this so-called "argument" in light of this information. Advent Children reiterates what most of us already knew, that our story takes place in a fantasy setting* with a confirmed afterlife existence.

(*You'd think that the name of the series would clue people in.)

The notion that death represents, within the context of said setting, the ultimate end was already softly contradicted by the original game's narrative, and then (because that was apparently too subtle for some people) flat-out annihilated by the existence and events of Advent Children. It should have long since ended this nonsense. But somehow, it didn't. These revelations, obvious though they are, remain ignored for some reason. And so, the cycle of willful ignorance continues.

But we're not done yet. We now move on to more tangential, but still relevant arguments against this line of "reasoning".

Part 3. Stop Hitting Yourself: Why "but she ded tho" is insulting to everyone

And I do mean everyone. Let's examine this, shall we?

It's insulting to Cloud.

To suggest that he loses interest in Aerith the moment she sinks beneath the waters, or that he is obligated to move on simply because she is no longer among the living, with no mourning period, no time to work through his guilt and grief, is to portray him as shallow and uncaring, something that goes against virtually all the characterization that he's been given throughout the story. The line of thinking apparently goes "Well, she's gone. That sucks. She was cute, too. Better move on to the next available piece of meat."

Sounds pretty gross when you write the quiet part out loud, doesn't it?

It's insulting to Aerith.

"Didn't even toss the b@#h a Phoenix Down, just dumped'er in the water LAWL"

I'm sure you've all come across comments like that at some point, usually originating from some errant redditor or blogger. Thinking themselves fine fellows and enlightened, above-it-all gadflies, they provide us at length with this and other prime specimens of 14 year-old internet edgelord "humour" that carries about as much edge as a perfect sphere. Remarks like these serve little purpose beyond confirming my suspicion that our fandom is indeed plagued with illiterates who can't tell the difference between the terms "revive" and "resurrect", and insist on conflating game mechanics with storytelling. And you wonder why some people are confounded by words like "flammable" and "inflammable".

(All right, I'll put the salt down. For now.)

"The party's designated white mage dies, oh no, that's so sad, boo-hoo, life goes on," I hear you say.

But boiling Aerith's role down to one of merely that of a temporary party member who kicks the bucket halfway through the story, never to be heard from again, both cheapens her purpose within the larger narrative and denies the clear effect that she continues to exert, directly and indirectly, on it and the other characters after her passing.

Though Aerith may have departed the world of the living, the story makes it abundantly clear that her influence on it has not ended. There are hints here and there that she still tries to assist her friends from the afterlife. As an example, when the party rediscovers Cloud in Mideel after assuming that he might be lost for good, a villager sums it up best with the following remark: "That boy must have one hell of a guardian angel."

It's only mentioned as a vague hint in the original story, but it is clear that some beneficent force is acting on Cloud and Tifa's behalf, aiding them in their survival and uniting them in the Lifestream in order to help Cloud recover his memories. Later supplemental material confirms that to have been Aerith's doing. If that's not enough to convince you, though, the original game's ending leaves little room for ambiguity as to Aerith's continuing influence. When Holy sputters and fails, she coaxes the Lifestream itself to intervene, burning away the calamitous meteorite, helping her friends put an end to the planetary crisis long after her own demise. I suppose the lesson here for silver-haired godhead wannabe villains is this: Strike her down, and she shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

So the idea that Aerith's participation in the story immediately comes grinding to a halt upon her death is both puerile and easily demonstrated to be false. But even if that were the case, downplaying her lingering influence on Cloud and the other characters in this manner would still be ignoring the creators' intent. Whether one interprets Cloud and Aerith's relationship as romantic or merely platonic, it is clear that her death, the loss of one of his closest allies, is something that wounds him deeply, and scars him forever. Two years on, he still pines for her company and desires her forgiveness for his perceived failures. She clearly occupies a special place in his heart, and her memory and legacy live on within him, spurring him on as he wanders the planet, searching for some way to meet her again, defying the impossible. (Which, as we all know, isn't going to happen. This is, after all, Final Gritty Reality we're talking about here.)

Ah, but all of this is a moot point, you say? Even if he did wish to be with her, preferring the company of the last Cetra over that of his childhood friend… well, too bad. That's no longer an option. We can spout all of this verbiage about "soul pain" this and "star-crossed lovers" that, but at the end of the day, Aerith is still dead, and that's that. At least, that's what ardent CloTi fans will insist, no matter what. So, what is Tifa to Cloud, then, by their own logic?

Which brings us to perhaps our most salient, and most overlooked point, at least as far as CloTi shippers are concerned. If all that wasn't enough for you, you may want to consider that it's deeply insulting to Tifa, as well. Grievously so, in fact. Quite possibly more so than any other character in this whole equation. And the reason why should be plain as day if you stop to think about it for a fraction of a second.

Here's the thing… if you can't articulate why you think Cloud would prefer to be with Tifa in spite of Aerith being alive, then you are essentially declaring her the "winner" by default on no other merits than the fact that she's still sucking down air. Stating "but she ded bro" means relegating Tifa to the role of a consolation prize. I don't think I could ever hurl such a staggering insult towards her as her biggest fans keep doing, without even realizing they're doing it.

Ask yourselves, is that really what you want for your supposed favourite character? To frame her as being doomed to eternally play second fiddle to her fallen friend? Cloud's "plan B"? The "side piece"? Someone who only stands a chance if her rival in love is literally six feet under? I'm sure she'd be thrilled by the high regard in which her own fans seem to hold her. (Hey, you said it, not me. It's not my fault if you don't take the time to actually consider the ramifications of what rolls off your keyboard. But by all means, keep insulting your own favorite character just to put down a ship you don't like.)

In closing, if we unearth the subtext and reframe it to highlight what people are, in essence, saying, it's this: "It's a good thing that she-who-shall-not-be-named bit the dust, because otherwise our beloved Best Girl Tifa (tm) wouldn't stand a chance."

It's a simple enough question: Why do you think that Cloud and Tifa belong together? What, in your mind, makes them a good fit for each other?

"Well, the competish is dead." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for your best girl, now is it?

Part 4. "Heads, I Win. Tails, You Lose": A brief word on hypocrisy

In fandom, it's often the loudest and most obnoxious voices who tend to drown out the more reasonable ones, those of fans who are just minding their own business and grooving on the thing that they like. Which, unfortunately, renders this next part a necessary component of the greater argument that I'm trying to make. Multishippers and sane, reasonable CloTi and Zerith fans may consider themselves exempted from the following harangue.

The rest of y'all, buckle up.

The too-oft repeated refrain of "but she ded tho" entails a twofold hypocrisy. The first part is:

Case of Tifa: Fan hypocrisy regarding death.

Strident anti-Clerith fans, with their usual level of maturity, will often bring up Aerith's demise in a gleeful, mocking tone that can best be summed up as "ding dong, the witch is dead!" And if the shoe were on the other foot? If their Best Girl Tifa (tm) were the one pushing up daisies instead of Miz Gainsborough? Would they be quite so cavalier in their attitudes?

Who wants to bet that these fans wouldn't be making this "argument" so loudly if it was their ship that was in question? Consider this scenario: Suppose that the remake trilogy does the unthinkable and has Tifa die in Aerith's place. What then? Would they accept that "but she ded tho" is, at best, a double-edged sword, one that applies equally to their own favourite ship were their fortunes to be reversed?

Something tells me that's not the case.

But if you think that's hypocritical, you ain't seen nothing yet. This first point pales in comparison to…

The Zerith Exemption: Fan hypocrisy regarding the afterlife.

You know what my favourite thing about this whole debacle is? When people inform me that because they are separated by death, Cloud and Aerith have no hope of ever being together again. They will then unironically pivot to shipping Zack and Aerith, two characters who are together in the MOTHERFUCKING AFTERLIFE.

It's wild. How do you even compress that much cognitive dissonance into one skull? We're talking about mind-melting, Olympic medal-worthy levels of mental gymnastics here.

Now, before someone accuses me of being morose, I'm not suggesting that Cloud hop off the nearest cliff just to be with his beloved (Aerith would not approve of him throwing his life away, for one), just that when he reaches the end of his natural life (which may not be too long, given the cells eating away at his body), he can finally be reunited with her in the afterlife.

Many ardent CloTi shippers see themselves as bound by law to uphold Zerith as a shield against the dreaded Clerith plague. But to proclaim, implicitly or explicitly, that the afterlife encompasses one but not the other is not an idea that can be taken seriously. It remains an utterly bizarre blind spot, one that beggars belief.

On a related note, there is the infamous misconception that is…

Part 5. The ZaCloud Fallacy

While this is not directly related to my main point, I nonetheless find myself compelled to address this issue. There is a long-standing confusion that bedevils our fandom, one that has its roots in the Shipping Wars (tm). I am, of course, referring to the ZaCloud Fallacy.

We owe this particular misapprehension to Crisis Core, a prequel/gaiden game that was released ten years after the original FFVII. Already, its existence can mess up the timeline, so to speak, as, strangely, people tend to treat it as a sequel rather than a prequel, and as though it were adding new and vital building blocks to the world of FFVII instead of merely distorting the original story while retreading it with a far less interesting cast of characters. It also retcons major elements of the original story that it shouldn't have (such as the events taking place in Nibelheim five years prior to the main narrative), lazily steals Clerith scenes only to rehash them with Zack and Aerith, and forces players to endure, at length, crimes against literature, courtesy of Genesis.

It's an odd prequel, to say the least, given how heavily it relies on the original story for context. Sequentially, it may take place before FFVII, but it can only be fully appreciated with the original in mind; it cannot be treated as a stand-alone story. The worst thing about Crisis Core existing is that playing it first can outright ruin people's perception of the original narrative by spoiling several major plot elements and even lessening them in the process. Crisis Core's writers are especially guilty of cheapening dramatic moments like Zack's last stand by transforming it from a quiet, tragic, harrowing scene about sacrifice to an utterly over-the-top and emotionally overwrought trainwreck. It all merely serves to add to the confusion, especially for gamers who started with this title instead of the original.

But if that were not enough, Crisis Core's reckless meddling with the story combined with the acrimonious and all-consuming nature of the shipping wars has resulted in one of the most nonsensical misconceptions in the entire fandom. During Crisis Core's ending, Zack implores Cloud to carry on his legacy, thus giving rise to the erroneous assumption that Cloud's behaviour in disc 1 is merely that of him "being Zack". Clerith-hating fans, in particular, pounced on this idea as a way to put a safe distance between him and Aerith, characterizing their interactions, whether platonic or romantic, as merely a case of Cloud utilizing Zack's memories and personality around her (Never mind that Zack and Cloud's personalities are as different as night and day).

It is a fundamental and willful misreading of the story, a gross oversimplification of a more complex and granular truth in service of a fan-originated meta-narrative, one that has been assembled in order to reach the conclusion that Cloud and Aerith's relationship is null and void, and that therefore the romance between him and Tifa remains unchallenged. (Never mind that the story is intended as more than just some playground tug-of-war romance). To maintain this lie is to do violence to the story by destroying Cloud's character arc and reducing him to a virtual non-entity until the very end of the game.

Having already been rebuked in regards to this pervasive delusion, certain fans have tried to hedge their bets by suggesting a second, more advanced version of this idea. ZaCloud Fallacy 2.0, if you will, which states that Cloud is only in Zack Mode (tm) when he's around Aerith. I don't even know what to say about that sort of nonsense. To paraphrase Charles Babbage, I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such an assertion.

I'd go into this in more detail, but YouTube creator LinkOnTheBrink has already covered this topic extensively in their superlative video essay "How Shipping Can Ruin a Narrative".

It may seem like I'm trashing Zack or Zerith here, but I'm really not. That was never my intent. So let me be clear about this: I like Zack. I just hate Crisis Core and what it's done to this fandom. If you prefer CloTi and Zerith to everything else, I don't much mind. Ultimately, this isn't about shipping wars nonsense, but protecting the narrative from such nonsense.

And that leads us to…

Part 6. I Against I: Where the fandom went wrong

We all know that the infamous FFVII Shipping Wars (tm) are as stupid as they are inescapable. Anyone who's spent any time at all within this fandom has inevitably run afoul of them and their detritus at some point, whether they've chosen to participate in them or abstain from the whole debacle. But there's a reason why this acrimonious dispute has raged on for as long as it has. Much like Blade Runner fans would argue until they were blue in the face about whether or not Deckard was a replicant, fans of this story have been squabbling about CloTi versus Clerith for ages for similar reasons. (Zerith got roped in as a "political wedge", I would argue, as much as a pairing in its own right.)

It's more than just a war over shipping, it's a war over canonization, over character motivation and psychology. Of how we ultimately interpret the story and its characters. Given the vagueness of the story's ending, one can't help but wonder and speculate as to how everyone ended up afterwards. (Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus may have offered some answers, but they still largely sidestep these questions in a noncommittal, to-be-continued manner.)

The problem is that, for many fans, it isn't possible to simply say "It's my preference" and be done with the matter. Unlike most rarepairs and bananas pairings like Cait x Jenova, CloTi and Clerith remain hotly contested because they go beyond mere shipping, or even aesthetic preference, or which characters one most identifies with; they lie at the core of how we perceive the story and its inhabitants. In that sense, I don't consider it to be an entirely frivolous debate, just an unsolvable one.

So, what's the answer?

There's this long-standing piece of received wisdom about JRPGs vs. WRPGs, where the latter involves more freedom at the expense of focused storytelling, and vice versa. This idea might hold true to some extent, but it is not some iron law that must be obeyed without question. For a game like FFVII, choices that radically affect the narrative structure would be considered an aberration and not the norm. And yet, it might represent the only way out of this quagmire that doesn't involve throwing half the fandom under the bus in the process.

For me, Mass Effect and similar titles (e.g., Quest for Glory) have already presented an obvious solution: Let the players choose. (There is already some precedent in the form of the Gold Saucer scene, although it ultimately doesn't change the outcome of the story all that much.) It may not be a perfect solution, but I'd argue that it's far better than leaving one side out in the cold. At least this way, everyone gets something.

"Ah, but this is not feasible," I hear you respond. "Not for an Eastern-style RPG, at least. Only one of these pairings can be correct, and one must, above all, respect the creator's vision."

Yeah, look where that got us.

Part 7. As You Like It: Ship whatever you please (just stop this nonsense)

I realize that this little essay of mine has been digressive, rudimentary, rambling, extemporaneous, and scattershot. So let me try to reach some kind of meaningful conclusion here.

Much of this anti-Clerith rhetoric we've seen over the years seems to stem from a place of insecurity, whether it's murmuring "but she ded tho", claiming that Cloud was only ever Zack in disc 1, inventing a fictional sex scene underneath the Highwind from whole cloth, and so on… The thing is, there is no need for it. Clerith and CloTi both exist canonically. Even the game manual says as much, describing Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith's relationship as a love triangle. In other words, the love triangle is what's canon, and the rest is by and large up for interpretation. (Zerith also canonically exists, and we've known this since the OG.)

The true reason why this whole disagreement has gone on for eternity, I suspect, has less to do with any debate over canonicity alone than it does the sheer enmity and pettiness that it has continued to spark for so long. It has metastasized over the years, going from being a mere squabble over which pair is canon to an exercise in holding the other side in contempt. That endless cycle of disrespect and reprisals is undoubtedly where it all went wrong in the first place. (If I had a nickel for every time someone commented "but she ded tho" or "wHy iS zAcK bLoNd iN tHiS pIc?" when someone posts a piece of Clerith fan art, I'd have a pretty nice collection of coins by now.)

Obviously, we should all try to just click off when we encounter content that we dislike, but it's not always easy, especially when something we harbour a strong aversion to is so deeply enmeshed within something that we do enjoy. And so, our fight-or-flight instinct kicks in. Before you ask, yes, I'm as guilty of that as anyone else.

Still, I firmly believe that the occasional olive branch can go a long way. So let me simply say that I have the utmost respect for Tifa and Zack. They are worthy characters in their own right. So create and share all the CloTi/Zerith fan works your little hearts desire. Hire a fleet of skywriters to declare Zerith your favourite couple. Throw a giant CloTi parade through the middle of Times Square. We don't mind. Honestly.

As stated above, whether it's CloTi, Clerith, or Zerith, you can stop fretting over which one is canon; they all are. The other three permutations (Zakkura, Zifa, AerTi) don't get much in the way of canon acknowledgement, but they probably should at this point.

In the end, this is about saving the narrative from the shipping wars, as much as anything else. To say that you prefer CloTi or something else to Clerith is fine. To assert that Clerith doesn't exist in any form, however, is where I begin to take exception.

Ultimately, I say ship what you like. All I ask is that you retire this sort of narrative-wasting nonsense. It's time we threw it into the garbage can of gaming history where it belongs. As for questions of motives, character interpretation, canonization, and so forth… if we cannot reach an accord, then let us at least try for a more amicable disagreement.

As for my fellow Clerith supporters, the next time you see the withered old canard that is "but she ded tho" being bandied about in the wild, feel free to laugh and treat it with the derision and contempt that it so richly deserves.

[suzdalcatz]

Quick intro

Baz <3

They/Them, 19, White

Interests:

Revue Starlight, Glee, Genshin Impact, Chappell Roan, the Legend of Zelda (and Linked Universe), Final Fantasy VII, Batfamily (Stephanie Brown), Dungeon Meshi, JJK, Gravity Falls, Gorillaz, etc.

Favorite ships rn:

Futakao, Timsteph, Zelink, Satosugu, Kavetham, Brittana, Billford, Ravioli, Zerith, Fiddauthor, Farcille, 2doc, Shokohime.

DNI:

All the basic DNI criteria, proshippers, Taylor Swift haters, batcest, stancest, or linkcest shippers, timsteph antis, etc.

[confusedpandabear]

Here is the Russian artist I was talking about. I commissioned a zerith art from her a few years ago shortly before the Ukraine war broke out. I think she is very brave for her anti-war stance while still living in Russia🫡. I would commission her again but for security reasons I'm not comfortable using any service that's not PayPal for transactions: x(.)com/AutumnSacura/status/1480920937218252800

Wow that Zerith art is gorgeous! 😍

Glad to also see that she has been recently active and seems to be safe. I hope things get better and we can support her art again soon.

[rednether]

RikuNami shippers: “Oh boy we sure do love staying in our lane and not invading SoNami posts to post RikuNami fanart where it doesn’t belong like a certain group of ship fans or two.”

Cloti and Zerith shippers: “CLOTI AND ZERITH FOREVER! AERITH SHOULD BE DIMNISHED INTO NOTHING MORE THAN AN EXTENSION OF ZACK AND CLOUD IS ACTUALLY IN LOVE WITH TIFA! NOW LET US POST FANART OF THE TWO AFOREMENTIONED PAIRINGS ON CLERITH POSTS BECAUSE SCREW RESPECTING CLERITH FANS!” 

[fairykery]

Imagine Cloud goes to promised land after being happy with Tifa, and they accidentally see Zerith shagging 😭✋🏼

[clerithraven]

Seriously?

I was pissed off by someone from a page on FB.

So, this FB page posted this:

Had to blur the rest of the pic. You may recognize it, you may not. Anyway, it’s pro-z/erith. Mainly fanfiction implying how Aerith was still not over Zack during the OG, saying that talking about him still hurt, that it hurt her to think he found someone else hence why he never replied to her letters--that kinda thing.

Nothing against fanfiction that’s pro-z/erith. What irked me was this guy:

This dude must have missed the moment Zack flirted with Cissnei. He must have also missed the proof of Zack’s lack of any devotion to Aerith in an official quote from the Ultimania.

“Zack loves women, a real lady’s man” Like what Aerith recalled in FF7, Zack is very good at hitting on girls, and is skilled at flirting. In BC, he used to compliment a female member of Turks during a mission; in CC, he also invited Cissnei, a member from Turks, to dine together. Since “one who steals an egg will steal an ox”, Zack’s girlfriend, Aerith, maybe felt impatient about this….?

[ screencap captions ]

CLOUD & ZACK IN THE TRUCK: “On the way of escape to Midgar,WHICH GIRLFRIEND did he plan to ask help for?”

Zack in the ice cave with the female turk: “In chap.8 of BC, during the mission in Iceburg, Zack praised a female member of Turk.”

~Zack’s info in FFVII Ultimania, p.83

Source: astoryofalove’s post

Wow, some devotion that was from Z/ack.

NOT.

I would have just ignored the first statement he made, but then he had to go and insult Aerith for speaking the truth. This dude clearly hero-worships Zack that he completely dismissed the fact that Zack was a playboy and a cheater, as proven by official sources and the game Crisis Core itself.

All of these Zack fans should not dismiss the truth that Zack was not loyal, devoted or faithful to Aerith. If they like shipping z/erith, fine. Go ahead and ship it. But they shouldn’t claim that Zack was loyal or devoted or faithful when official sources say otherwise.

[iaintyourbro]

As much as I ship Cloud and Tifa, I personally think that if Cloud didn't love Aerith, he wouldn't have beat himself up constantly about her death in Advent Children. I don't think it was just about guilt for being unable to protect her because he frets around so badly about Aerith to the point that he's unwilling to even LIVE anymore. Tifa loves Cloud, but I don't think that Cloud loves her back, and that sort of disappoints me.

Canon resources say otherwise.

Nothing ever confirms Cloud loves Aerith. Nothing. The closest you’ve got is her loving him - stated in Lifestream White - but nothing confirms he loves her. People can twist, erase, and ignore whatever they want, but it’s not there. The most I’ll give you is maybe he had a crush on her in the OG during his SOLDIER!Cloud time. Aerith tells us that any feelings he may THINKS he has AREN’T REAL in Remake. These are all part of the compilation. You can’t pick and choose lines, parts of scenes, and sentences to prove something as canon. It’s the whole picture. 

I think you missed the entire guilt thing that they’ve tried to clarify. The guy also has geostigma. He knows a lot about it. He’s spent a ton of time researching it. Tons. He knows there’s no cure. So on top of EVERYTHING ELSE he’s going to die now too. He doesn’t want to die. 

And look, even if he did - his BEST FRIEND and his BEST FRIEND’S GIRLFRIEND are there... sounds like he wouldn’t get too far. He also calls her Mom. Zack and Aerith also act like he’s a child that’s too big to adopt. I feel like they really tried to drive some of these themes home. 

Also - I’ve said this before. You all always forget about Zack. He’s got a lot of guilt and sadness over Zack. You all also forget that Zack and Aerith treat Cloud like a child that is too big to adopt. My husband immediately said during that scene that people must ignore this because clearly it isn’t romantic in the way they portray it.

Hell, I’d say his reaction not only to Zack’s death, but his reaction to Zack’s appearance in AC are FAR more emotional than anything regarding Aerith. 

Rationally, what you say makes no sense. Cloud tells us his feelings in the OG. In CoT he’s clearly happy and then goes down the path of guilt. People close themselves off in cases like this - not everybody talks about it and, yeah, that makes it worse. Top it off with a sick kid that - because you think you’ll get forgiveness - you really want to cure, then YOU get it, so in your mind, nothing can be done because the research you’ve done shows you this - it sucks. 

This isn’t romantic. Nothing about his relationship with Aerith in AC is romantic. If it is, then you need to say his relationship with Zack is too. Period. 

But you won’t, because for some reason, it’s only opposite sex people that get this treatment. Because I guess a guy and girl can never just be friends. 

And in that case, Clack wins. There’s more history and more of a relationship built between the two. I know people just hate to hear that, but it’s true. He knew Zack for longer and he knew him better than Aerith. 

Also, do you really think Cloud intentionally is going to shut off the woman who pretty much saved his life? Is he going to try and motivate her to keep going (early in Case of Tifa) if he really didn’t care for her? Would he freak out and stomp all over the flowers to get to her? Would he find out from Reno and Rude that the kids are missing and refuse to leave her side? 

The OG told us who he loves. 

I feel like a broken record here. I’m sure this is coming off as brutal, and I try very hard to keep my tone calm in some of these posts, but I’ve gotten WAY too many of these questions in the last few days and they’re all similar. 

Cloud is 21 years old. He is mentally 16 years old. Cloud has major trauma. He has amnesia and other shit going on in his head. He knew Aerith for a month. His focus was not just Aerith for that month. I know people for some reason think that’s the case, but I think they IGNORE everything else in the game. 

On top of it: ZACK WAS CLOUD’S BEST FRIEND.... I cannot in a million years think that once he remembers Zack and Aerith finds out he knew Zack that they’d be okay with getting together. I just don’t. 

They’re clearing up all this shit in remake. They’ve already made it clear that SOLDIER!Cloud also has a thing for Tifa. If you play Chapters 1-7 and 10-18, you’ll see a lot of that interaction. 

The devs have also said the characters are being portrayed as they were in OG. We just have the added features of voice acting and body language to make things even more clear. 

Please, next time you think about this undying love that he supposedly has... Ask yourself:

Would you be okay if your 21 year old son gave up on their life for a girl they knew for a month? When they were mentally unstable? Let’s just ignore anything past her death. Nobody would be okay with their kid doing that. Most people WOULDN’T do this on their own. Even Cloud I can say wouldn’t do it. Once he gets his mind back, it’s TIFA TIFA TIFA. There’s NOTHING that will change that. 

I’m not answering anymore of these questions that say Cloud doesn’t love or care for Tifa or that Cloud doesn’t deserve Tifa. I’ve answered enough. My answer will not change. You can believe whatever the hell you want, but going forward I will delete and block any of these types of ask. 

I didn’t write the story. If you don’t like it, don’t play it. It’s simple. 

[callmederok]

I FINISHED FF7 ORIGINAL GAME

BLOODY HELL! 

NOW I TRULY UNDERSTAND WHY EVERYONE SAYS IT’S THE BEST FINAL FANTASY EVER MADE!

i did everything! Golden Chocobo, all the limits, Ultimate, Emerald and Ruby Weapons. Knights of Round Materia, got all the possible materias, level 99 with every character(but Aerith but she dies in CD1...good luck levelling her up at that point without exp plus or without save editors), got the cool submarine, dated Tifa, got all the huge materias at the first try which means that i did Cid’s and Barret’s character arcs, then i did everyone’s character arc, got a huge affection with Tifa so at the end of CD2 i get the most romantic dialogue with Cloud(yeah there are two: if you have less than 50 affection points Tifa is a bit colder, but i had her over 50 so she was so nice and cute) i did bloody everything perfectly!

Okay now that i bragged let’s get serious:

I loved the plot...like seriously i love pretty much every Final Fantasy before FF10 with a few nitpicky exceptions 

But Final Fantasy 7? i love everything of it...i hate the minigames but at the same time love them!

I loved the characters...i can’t really say much bc i enjoyed them at their max...although my party was constantly Cloud + Tifa + Barret(aside from when i was levelling up the characters) only once i had Cloud + Tifa + Aerith willingly: Cosmo Canyon @silver-wield​ i swear Bugehangen(Red’s step-grandfather) makes a long monologue about the lifestream and Aerith doesn’t even speak once! I mean she is the Ancient along with Red/Nanaki but not even a word!

The plot goes as it should but really in the fandom(thanks to FF7R’s fans) the old Clerith vs Cloti shippers is more alive than ever...and i don’t understand the Clerith’s fans...like really Aerith (in the Original Game) is important only in CD1 Cloud met her in Midgar, she goes with him then..she is a background character until Gongaga and it’s only for like 3-4 lines of dialogue...because Zack is her boyfriend then the next important Aerith's scene is in the Ancient Temple close to Mideel, where she translates the ancients’ language inside the Temple, then Sephiroth controls Cloud like a puppet who beats the living hell out of her, Cloud gives the black materia to Sephiroth, she runs away to the Forgotten City(the city of the Ancients/Cetras) she charges the White Materia...and then she dies... 

Then we have a comatose/catatonic Cloud in Mideel, the entire CD2 until like the last ten minutes where only then Aerith is mentioned to be one of the reasons why everyone is fighting (i mean that every single character has a personal reason + avenging Aerith) and this thing is mentioned a couple of times in CD3 and she appears in the ending of the game(post-Final Battle) the same way she appears at the beginning of the game...that’s it.

I don’t hate Aerith, i’m okay with her character and personality...i’m not into her, but i like her in general but really, her death is iconic but not so emotional...she barely has any screen time in the game, i didn’t manage to develop a full emotional connection with her(you know, that thing when you love a fictional character and you feel bad when they’re unhappy or they die), visually speaking that scene is awesome and powerful, but emotionally? Meh! I couldn’t care less i was more concerned for the materias i left on her, if i cried it was because i didn’t know if i would lose all the materias i gave her XDXD

Now we talk about Cloud and Tifa...god, they’ve tons of moments together, they share a past together, they even shared a mental connection together(because they fall in the Lifestream under Mideel and Tifa fixes Cloud’s mind) they shared everything together, same town, many moments in tons of flashbacks, in Crisis Core we really see Cloud all shy and concerned because he feels bad for not being SOLDIER...they share that moments under the Highwind and they spends a day together(somewhere i even read that it’s implied that they do lewd things together at that point, i don’t believe it...probably a few kisses but nothing really lewd...just some hand-holding without gloves...maybe XD)

I’m not saying Aerith is bad for Cloud or else...just they met and spent very little time together and for half of that time Cloud felt guilty and ashamed because he beat her and then almost killed her with the Buster Sword(canonically Cloud never changed weapon in FF7) so imagine the shock of almost killing your best friend's girlfriend with his sword(yeah the sword is Angeal’s but Cloud doesn’t know about that part) after you punched her multiple times, yeah he can excuse himself by saying “Sorry but i was controlled by Sephiroth there is nothing i could do back then so...i moved on” <-- do you really think Cloud is that superficial? Enough to leave Nibelheim promising everything to the girl he likes only to live tons of dramas, almost dying while he saves her. I mean even with his memories mixed up Tifa is the only person in his mind that it’s not changed...like the common thing between Cloud’s persona and the actual events and real memories of Cloud. In the lifestreams(but even in Kalm Town during the first flashback of Nibelheim, and in the flashback about the promise) Tifa is the only thing that never changed inside Cloud’s mind, he has a meltdown(and becomes catatonic) when at the end of CD1 Tifa hesitates about what happened (for real) in Nibelheim...literally Tifa holds so much power over Cloud to literally destroy his mind with some hesitations...it’s scary as hell but in this situation is also nice and cute because it really shows how much Cloud trusts her and takes her in consideration...

i’m dismantling Clerith but guys seriously, Zerith is so much better than Clerith, Zack and Aerith actually spend time together in Crisis Core, Aerith wrote 89 letters over the arc of 4-5 years, still waiting for him, that’s the nice thing, the cute things i love(and i’m about to play Crisis Core soon enough u.u i wanna try it) but seriously, leave Cloud alone...(possibly with Tifa or Barret if you dated him at the Golden Saucer or you like Rabtoon’s parody XDXD) 

Ps: Cloti for me can also be just a friendly relationship...but Advent Children shake its head like “Nope Derok, they’re a couple, don’t try to sugarcoat it for the sake of Clerith’s fans!”

In all honesty, there is not much else to talk about because the rest of the game is so damn good that there are no opinions, interpretations or doubts...the facts around the game are so clear that i don’t think can be verbal wars about stuff...only comments about facts and unchangeable things...XD

[roeyliteratiforever]

(Rebirth Spoilers) I am so tired of shippers in the fandom trying to cheapen Cloud and Tifa's kiss, and say "Cloud only kissed Tifa because he was rebounding." Rebounding from what?! Cloud has known Tifa almost his whole life and has had feelings for her for such a long time at this point! He knew Aerith for what a couple of weeks?! I'm not saying that Cloud and Aerith don't have a cute bond, but I'm tired of people trying to to cheapen Cloud's feelings for Tifa or acting like she is some rebound. If she was such a rebound for him why didn't he kiss Aerith?? Someone was trying to tell me that the almost kiss between Cloud and Tifa in Gongaga was also him rebounding "because he was so hurt because he though Aerith still has feelings for Zack" (which yes she does she will always love Zack but that's not the point) Cloud and Tifa had a moment in Gongaga after he thought he nearly lost her and stayed up all night watching over her to make sure she was okay and then they have a heart to heart where Cloud opens up to her and gets vulnerable for the first time ever with anyone! Cloud has never opened up his feelings to anyone else, and in that moment he wanted to kiss Tifa because that's how he felt not because he was rebounding! Look it's fine if you ship Clerith that's valid, but it's so annoying when shippers try to gaslight us into thinking Cloud doesn't really have feelings for Tifa or she is just a rebound when clearly that is not true! Cloud kissed Tifa because he loves her and always has! If you really think Cloud is the type of person to use someone that has always loved him like that then I really don't understand why you would want him with Aerith anyways.

[kizumika-blog-blog]

This is ridiculous. Ever since Cloud and Aerith were shown together twice in a row for the remake, people have been attacking cleriths non stop. It's really gotten to some troll literally wishing death on all of us. This is not even ship war, this is just cleriths getting jumped. Because we're outnumbered anyway (western wise). Now there is a post on tumblr (from yet another fake clerith account most likely "@astoryofthelove" who only has this one post, also has it tagged as clerith) that is dedicated to attacking or "exposing" a well known clerith blog @astoryofalove and cleriths all around the web for responding (with repetative opinions and/or quotes) to cloti or zerith (who are just also giving repetative opinions). Sure they were wrong for being that aggressive (although I dont see anyone else being apologetic), but why is the rest of us, from everywhere else being thrown in?? This mess looks like an attack on the entire clerith fandom.

I just followed a popular, cloti dedicated blog, attempting to get on the double ship, and then this happens. It just gets worse. I've been silent for most of it but this Is some other level sh!t. Honestly, I dont know what they're trying to achieve with this. Is it going to change the story line in the remake? Is attacking us is going to change the developers minds? Are they trying to make sure that new fans will not support clerith? Is it really even that serious? I'm gonna assume that they're (with probably 10% of them minding their business) going to try and kill and/or completely silence the clerith fandom before 2020.

[astoryofalove]

antis: “omg aerith’s so weak for asking cloud to protect her, i hate it so much”

also antis: “zack buys all of aerith’s stuff, and i love this”

[confusedpandabear]

Beautiful anti war folk song. The lyrics reminds me of the tragic destiny of zerith too😢: youtu(.)be/bI3QVsW30j0?si=wEON0Rk5sTEndMTy

Ah, this is so beautiful it makes my soul ache 🥺

[sephirothcrescent-blog1]