#anti-regina-mills

[mccallhero]

okay so i just finished ouat for the first time ever (watched it years ago but stopped in s5b) and i just wanted to ask one question about the finale lmao

(discussions of r*pe, the r*pists on the show, the erasure of graham, and regina's crimes)

first. some context. i absolutely hate what happened to graham's character (being r*ped and then murdered by his r*pist and then the crime never ever ever ever being acknowledged) and it's really really hard for me to like regina's character after that. for the longest time i always told myself it was the writers that didn't actually understand what they were writing, and then once they did, they tried to ignore it and sweep it under the rug because that wasn't their intention for regina's character

for example, with the other two r*pists on the show (there's arguments for a lot more, but these ones are confirmed in the canon), zelena and mother gothel are both treated as villains (regina actually calls zelena out for the r*pe, telling her she 'deceived robin in the most vile way possible,' which is another reason i thought the writers were trying to kinda retcon what regina did to graham once they realized what they had actually written). zelena eventually does get her 'redemption' (kinda. the only person who ever treats her well is regina. we just stop seeing zelena with other characters. the only exceptions really in s7 are wish!killian, robyn, and chad and they all don't know about her true crimes), which is something i hate, but again, zelena and mother gothel (for the majority of their characters) are treated as villains, which is genuinely why i thought for over a decade now that the writers realized they made an oopsie with regina and graham and just ignored it

however. then i watch the season 7 finale

and regina's getting crowned the good queen which. okay. interesting take i guess (love or hate regina's character, she burned down entire villages, who the hell is voting for her???). and then regina, the good queen, supposedly forgiven and redeemed for all her past evil deeds, gets to give a speech. in fact, the last speech that's ever given on ouat, the last words ever spoken on the show is this speech

she starts off by saying: 'i thought my story came to an end a long time ago, and then new people came into my life... people who gave me a second chance. i can't wait to see what's in store for me next. well, for everyone'

and then with this speech, as it continues, there's a lovely little montage to give us a reminder of the journey that was ouat and all of the characters along the way

regina says: 'i refuse to believe there won't be more adventures' and we see the jolly roger, charming on horseback, rumple in the heroes and villains au on horseback (interesting choice), grumpy being hatched, jiminy cricket, pinnochio and gepetto being swallowed by a whale, regina casting the dark curse over snow and charming's dying body (.......), emma freeing merlin from the tree, elsa using magic, ursula and maleficent tussling, monkey!walsh, rumple being bitch slapped by a bear, belle being attacked by fire-doggie!phillip, snow hitting charming with a rock, and cruella's stank breath

these are all, so far, decent choices. some are a little iffy but, for the most part, just moments reminding us of everything that's happened

and then regina says 'more love' and we see outlaw queen, snowing, swan believer, phillip and aurora, rumbelle, henry and violet, cinderella and her guy (shawn?), jasmine and aladdin, snowing again

this one's a little more questionable (just like. where is captain swan? and why is swan believer here when everything else is romantic love? did someone mix it up? idk. not the point but still)

'more family' and we see snowing and baby emma, emma and baby henry, the heroes in s2 walking together, snowing and neal, gepetto and pinnochio, henry smiling, and the last supper ouat version

this one's fine. i think including gepetto and pinnochio there is kinda funny when it could be replaced by any other scene of the actual main family (regina and henry maybe???????????????)

and then. finally. why i am making this textpost

regina says 'and yes, there will be more loss'

and. okay. we see robin dying, robin's funeral, regina at her father's grave, and then ???????????????????????????? for SOME REASON they show GRAHAM DYING????????????????????????????????

and at this point i don't care what else they show because regina's then saying 'because that's just a part of life' and i am just wondering. HOW. after SEVEN SEASON. did ouat think that was a good idea

and it genuinely makes me feel nauseous because yes, he is a forgotten victim, he was controlled and r*ped and murdered and nobody ever found out about it and, in fact, he is rarely ever even remembered (emma wearing his shoelace was such a fucking blessing to know at least ONE PERSON cared about him after he had died. that he at least wasn't forgotten by her) but for YEARS i thought it was just ouat being ouat and trying to ignore their mistakes because addressing them would make regina truly unforgiveable

but then. regina. in her final act of being truly redeemed, switched completely from the evil queen to the good queen, her crimes being forgiven by her victims and everyone electing her to be queen (WERE THERE NO OTHER CANDIDATES?), regina reminds us of the crime that she never ever told anyone about, the crime that she will be taking to her grave, and we see graham dying (because she r*ped and then murdered him)

and it just feels so so so wrong. ESPECIALLY. especially. ESPECIALLY after season seven, where we're forced to watch rogers be taunted by his r*pist, the knowledge of her crime being unknown to him (she taunts wish!killian too when he does know), and that entire plot is sickening and heartbreaking but that's what it's supposed to be. like one of the biggest plots of the season was about a r*pist taunting her victim and destroying his life and making him miserable and being the cause of his death (gothel poisoned wish!killian's heart, regina crushed graham's, wow ouat sure does love their parallels). never once are we expected to be on gothel's side and literally everyone on the show hates her besides characters she is also manipulating (ivy and anastasia). so how are they going to have that be one of the main plots of the season (if not the main plot, considering it's why rumple dies and killian/alice/gothel have the most backstory eps out of any other plotline) and then do this?

how are they going to give regina her redemption and then remind us of graham's death, arguably one of her worst crimes that is kept secret from everyone on the show? she took his heart and then commanded him to her bed chamber and then created a curse where they had a sexual relationship despite graham being miserable every single day and never wanting or feeling anything because oh yeah she stole his heart and controls him. and then she killed him when she couldn't control him any longer

and now she's the good queen, getting her second chance? ('second' chance. okay ouat. sure)

how are they going to forgive regina for her crimes while reminding us, the audience, that nobody even knows about graham?

[kathrahender]

Some people always get angry when a villain is redeemed. They say things like "Stop redeeming the villain" "Villain redemption is such a terrible trope" "Not all villains deserve redemption" "Villains redemption are ruining media" "You are afraid of villanous characters because you can't bear people making mistakes" "Villain redemption is toxic/unhealthy" "You shouldn't try to fix someone!" and- Well- I have to talk about this because I seriously don't understand why people don't want to accept villains redemption.

"Villain redemption is such a terrible trope" "Villains redemption are ruining media". No, it's not a bad trope. Is not ruining media. It's an awesome trope, a wholesome trope, and I'm gonna say why. A villain redemption means nothing more than a person realizing they did bad things. It means a villain becoming a better person, a villain leaving the Dark Side because humanity and honor were more important than evilness and cruelty for them. And that's a beautiful concept. A villain becoming good? A villain who stops being bad because after all, they have a good side, because they are human? Where's the bad thing there? Where's the bad thing in realizing how much pain you've caused, and changing your morals for good? Seriously, people who hate villains redemption, where's the problem in this trope?

"Not all villains deserve redemption". Again with this tiring argument. When will you understand it? A villain redemption is not based on if they deserve it or not. It's based on the villain himself. It's based on their thoughts, on their morals. It's based on them changing from "I want to hurt/kill everyone who is against me" to "Oh God I'm a monster, what have I done?". Villains don't "deserve" redemption. They just redeem, or they don't, and it has nothing to do with "deserving" it. Some of you could think "Not all villains should be redeemed then!". I will talk about that argument in the last paragraph.

"You are afraid of villanous characters because you can't bear people making mistakes". That's definitely not true. That's bullshit. We're not afraid of people making mistakes. If that was true, we would be afraid of a hero making mistakes. And we aren't afraid of heroes who make mistakes. Because making mistakes makes you human. But- realizing you made a mistake also makes you human. That's what we like about this trope. A bad person, a villain or an anti-villain being actually human deep down.

"Villain redemption is toxic/unhealthy!" Actually- you know what's actually toxic? Hate. Hate is actually toxic. Hating someone is unhealthy. Of all the things you can do in your life, hating someone is the worst thing you can do. Why losing time hating when you can do better things for your heart and for your soul? Because the only thing you will get with hate is your heart/soul corrupted. A villain redeemed is not toxic nor unhealthy. Why a person changing for the better would be toxic or unhealthy?

"You shouldn't try to fix someone". Why? Why shouldn't I try to fix someone? Why shouldn't I want a bad person to turn good? Why shouldn't I want a villain becoming a hero? Why should I want the hate in this world to grow? Why should I want evilness to win? What you're saying doesn't make any sense. I want to fix villains because I believe in goodness! Because I want the good side to win! I want people having a happy ending, and the only way a villain can get a happy ending is being redeemed. And I want the villains to have a happy ending too because dying or getting tortured/being imprisioned after being suffering in your past is horrible. Yeah, I know villains hurt people, but some of them also were hurt, and although I don't justify them, I still want their pain to end and I want them to live, not just survive. I want them to change for the good, why is that so bad?

And even if they were "born evil" (what I doubt because for me villains are made not born) and "didn't suffered"- I want them to have a happy ending after redeeming because I want to believe in their goodness, in their humanity, and I don't want them to die because I think they also deserve a second chance in life and a chance to be happy (because if you can't be happy in this life, what's even the point?).

"But why would you want a villain having a happy ending after all they did????" Because I don't want them to suffer. "They made other people suffer, why would you want them to have a happy ending?" Because I believe no one deserves to have a bad ending in life. "So you defend the monsters in real life??? You support the real killers?? You are a murder apologist!!" Now hold on a fucking second. There's a fucking difference between liking a villain in fiction and want them to have a happy ending and want the real life villains to have a happy ending. Fiction is not fucking reality and you should know that. I want villains in fiction to redeem because I want to believe in their goodness, because I want to believe everyone is capable of being good, because I want to believe love and goodness can conquer all. Because I want to believe that no matter what, the good side will always win. Besides, most of the villains live in magic worlds, where sometimes death is not permanent, where you can see your loved ones even if it's not for a long time. And in fiction time-travel also exist. None of these things happen in reality. There's no magic, there's no time turner who can help you travel back in time to erase the villain's actions, there aren't Force Ghosts of your family or friends. Real life villains' actions are irrevocable and unforgivable. You can't bring back the dead because in this world once a person dies, that's the end of the line. But that doesn't happen in fiction. So stop comparing a real life villain actions with a fictional villain actions. They're not the same.

To end this post I want to say that the ones who like villains redemption (I'm a part of those people, of course) don't want all villains to be redeemed. There are villains we hate with all our heart, villains who are pure evil who doesn't deserve anything good. Villains like Gerard Argent, Dolores Umbridge, Sheev Palpatine, Captain Turner, Sebastian Shaw and Azulon. And more villains like those. So yeah, we do not want to see every villain redeemed.

[thedisdainfullysilentvisitor]

Friendly lil reminder that just because a show tells you a main character or recurring is a good person, that doesn't mean they necessarily are. Think for yourself.

[hitchell-mope]

Emma: Oh, by the way, if you ever speak disrespectfully again about my husband, I’ll kill you. Sorry, that sounded like a joke. I will ACTUALLY kill you.

[sapphic-agent]

In case you were wondering where I stood with any of these characters.

(Yes, Catra is in the middle. She gets her own category because I have complicated feelings about her)

[vasfasan]

Dark!Hook would be amazing at Cinemasins

All the Dark Ones 🤝 fucking finally putting Regina in her place

He's got a point, he's an icon, he's a legend, and he is the moment

[camelotroses]

I could watch this all day.

Regina had no right. Killian knew that. Killian stopped her cruelty against Emma.

He'd been against using the dagger to control her from the start. He believed in her enough to help her without using force.

"Are you all right?"

I love that Killian puts the dagger down before asking. He's been in a hurry to get rid of the darkness but since they got there he's been all about "Emma's choice". He's livid at Regina & he knows being controlled by the dagger hurts Emma.

That is true love.

[astridthevalkyrie]

the fact that once upon a time made regina so evil and awful that the only way to redeem her was tragic backstory+henry does a 180 and loves her now+snow is a murderer which makes her just as bad+snow and charming stole a baby+snow and charming could have went to emma when she was like 6 but they didn't+emma will talk about how they could've been together if they didn't send her through but regina would have either be with someone else or would have literally fucking killed her+zelena and every other villain is worse somehow+emma is evil now+the author WROTE regina to be evil+she SPLITS THE EVIL FROM HER LIKE IT WAS A SEPARATE PERSON AND NOT HER+and everyone who doesn't want to forgive her for killing hundreds and abusing her son because her mom killed her boyfriend is the scum of the earth and will either be portrayed as a villain or will just do a complete 180 like henry

[rumbelle-scream]

i've probably ranted about it a hundred times already...

but BUT the way regina stole belle's heart? the scenes don't make sense. the characters don't make sense.

i liked the rumple&will team up to steal belle's heart, but on belle's side, it's not making sense! regina asked belle for her heart, and yet she's clueless when it was returned? regina's not supposed to pull hearts and order people against their wills either! there was no need! she overstepped! and did i mention how it never got brought up again!?

the subplot ends with belle looking at rumple longingly, like she remembered that "oh! i love him." then follows the apparent breakup between belle and will. (oh, and his place in this show also doesn't make sense!)

ergo, this is my most hated plotline. above all the s5-s7 weirdness, this is one where i don't even consider it canon. there's always a better, alternate version of the situation in my head. my headcanon pieces this stupid stupid situation together.

[shewhotellsstories]

This reminds me a bit of my Regina Mills problem with Once Upon a Time. In OUAT they wanted to redeem Regina, but they spent three seasons showing her being an unrepentant child abuser, mass murderer, and rapist. They couldn't make the audience unsee her reign of terror (although there were way too many Regina apologists), so they relied on making her victims disregard their valid distrust and anger or lowering characters she'd been at odds with to make her look better.

The Bridgerton and Once Upon a Time writers couldn't make Penelope and Regina's actions less egregious. Hence, they had no choice but to invalidate everyone's feelings and vilify them to make their pets look better.

[eclipsewxtch]

unpopular opinion: i actually don’t hate emma swan in seasons 1-3 regarding her inserting herself as a mom-figure to henry. “but she was inserting herself after she gave him up! she didn’t raise him! she’s not his real mother! she pushed regina out of the way!”

like. i hate that everyone acts like emma didn’t have incredibly valid reasons to distrust/dislike regina (post-season 1) AND to not trust regina around henry AND to “act like his mom” considering henry, a child barely older than 10, traveled from maine to boston (4 hr bus ride) to ESCAPE regina n convince emma to COME BACK to “save the town” and to stop regina??Henry ranted and raved at every opportunity (even to regina’s face!!) that he thought she was EVIL and DARK, literally to ANYBODY WHO LISTENED; Henry, himself, made it VERY CLEAR that he viewed emma as more of a mother when she wasn’t even present in his life for a decade and he was aware that she GAVE HIM UP even if he didn’t know the reason... (which he eventually did when regina put it in the local newspaper that emma gave him up when she was in prison which was lowkey sick omg???)

like i think it’s more of a green flag that emma stepped up in what was obviously an unhealthy situation because henry was suffering (being treated like he was crazy; unfairly put in therapy/ostracized by regina) and with regina obviously exerting control over henry the way cora did to her all those years ago… like from a non-magical, “let’s assume henry WAS crazy” stand-point; regina had a point. emma wasn’t his mom, she gave him up, she signed an agreement. legally she had no rights. BUT henry wasn’t crazy, there is magic, n regina atp WAS evil. so. emma was right.

does that mean that i think henry didn’t love regina in some way? no, he clearly does care for regina—but are u saying that if some kid traveled four hours by himself at ten yrs old to meet u, his parent who gave him up, talking on and on abt how EVIL his adopted mother is — even if u did assume henry was delusional, wouldn’t it be concerning? wouldn’t u want to get him away from her too? n considering emma was in foster care ofc she had reservations abt regina…

like. regina ended up POISONING henry (even if she didn’t mean it, n henry bit the apple pastry for emma to prove magic was real) her actions had consequences and i see so much emma slander as if she wasn’t in the right??? ts genuinely confused me.

i love regina, i do, she is one of my favorite characters. her character development, her backstory, her personality—all wonderful things. i adore her. but that woman had several screws all lefty loosey up in there n everybody just casually forgets it???

that being said, i think that makes it even more impressive that regina managed (eventually) to gain emma’s trust and friendship after all that bs😭 but re-watching s1 is not for the weak bro

[couragehopelovefaith]

During every single OUAT-rewatch I hope I would understand why Regina has such a huge fan-base, but nope. Lana did a good job playing her and I couldn't see anyone else in that role. But the character herself has ruined so many people's lives by her actions - that she constantly and absurdly kept blaming other people for - and her redemption-arc is basically so non-existent that I just can't root for her or any ships or other relationships she's involved in.

[ebdaydreamer]

Regina: I was written as a villain!

girl please take some accountability for your actions. just once. please

[thedisdainfullysilentvisitor]

Here's your reminder that Swanqueen was never canon. It would be unfortunate if the ship wasn't incredibly toxic.

[sprnklersplashes]

me: now it is interesting that emma swan and lorelai gilmore got incredibly similar treatment in their respective fandoms; they were both teen parents, and working-class ones at that, who struggled to make ends meet and made difficult decisions to give their child the best life they could. despite this though, their fandoms can only focus on and exaggerate their shortcomings; in emma's case it was giving henry away and in lorelai's it was being too friendly and immature around rory. still me: by contrast, regina mills and emily gilmore-who are in many ways emma and lorelai's counterparts in regard to motherhood-are hailed as "icons" and also the best mothers on their respective shows despite having significantly more shortcomings than emma and lorelai did. henry is painted as an ungrateful brat despite clear evidence that regina was an unfit if not abusive parent, which in turn demonises emma for "turning" henry against regina. moreover, we see throughout the show that emily is an overbearing and toxic influence on lorelai, criticising every movement she does, and yet lorelai is still called ungrateful. what unites emily and regina is their wealth, as this is used as proof that they gave their children good lives despite their canon actions. still me: in summary, although these are two different shows, their fanbases show the same bias towards upper-class motherhood and a belief that providing for a child's basic needs is somehow a grand gesture, and in turn demonises and belittles the very struggles lorelai and emma had gone through as mothers. take-away delivery guy: ma'am please just take your food.

[killiansprincss]

I just don’t think I’ll ever understand people that say Emma and Regina is their favourite friendship. In what world is that a friendship when Regina literally barely tolerates Emma because she’s Henry’s mother and belittles her at any given moment, tried to kill her when Emma is simply existing - need I go on ????