#also i want to mention villains i want to see redeemed/i wanted to see redeemed

[kathrahender]

Some people always get angry when a villain is redeemed. They say things like "Stop redeeming the villain" "Villain redemption is such a terrible trope" "Not all villains deserve redemption" "Villains redemption are ruining media" "You are afraid of villanous characters because you can't bear people making mistakes" "Villain redemption is toxic/unhealthy" "You shouldn't try to fix someone!" and- Well- I have to talk about this because I seriously don't understand why people don't want to accept villains redemption.

"Villain redemption is such a terrible trope" "Villains redemption are ruining media". No, it's not a bad trope. Is not ruining media. It's an awesome trope, a wholesome trope, and I'm gonna say why. A villain redemption means nothing more than a person realizing they did bad things. It means a villain becoming a better person, a villain leaving the Dark Side because humanity and honor were more important than evilness and cruelty for them. And that's a beautiful concept. A villain becoming good? A villain who stops being bad because after all, they have a good side, because they are human? Where's the bad thing there? Where's the bad thing in realizing how much pain you've caused, and changing your morals for good? Seriously, people who hate villains redemption, where's the problem in this trope?

"Not all villains deserve redemption". Again with this tiring argument. When will you understand it? A villain redemption is not based on if they deserve it or not. It's based on the villain himself. It's based on their thoughts, on their morals. It's based on them changing from "I want to hurt/kill everyone who is against me" to "Oh God I'm a monster, what have I done?". Villains don't "deserve" redemption. They just redeem, or they don't, and it has nothing to do with "deserving" it. Some of you could think "Not all villains should be redeemed then!". I will talk about that argument in the last paragraph.

"You are afraid of villanous characters because you can't bear people making mistakes". That's definitely not true. That's bullshit. We're not afraid of people making mistakes. If that was true, we would be afraid of a hero making mistakes. And we aren't afraid of heroes who make mistakes. Because making mistakes makes you human. But- realizing you made a mistake also makes you human. That's what we like about this trope. A bad person, a villain or an anti-villain being actually human deep down.

"Villain redemption is toxic/unhealthy!" Actually- you know what's actually toxic? Hate. Hate is actually toxic. Hating someone is unhealthy. Of all the things you can do in your life, hating someone is the worst thing you can do. Why losing time hating when you can do better things for your heart and for your soul? Because the only thing you will get with hate is your heart/soul corrupted. A villain redeemed is not toxic nor unhealthy. Why a person changing for the better would be toxic or unhealthy?

"You shouldn't try to fix someone". Why? Why shouldn't I try to fix someone? Why shouldn't I want a bad person to turn good? Why shouldn't I want a villain becoming a hero? Why should I want the hate in this world to grow? Why should I want evilness to win? What you're saying doesn't make any sense. I want to fix villains because I believe in goodness! Because I want the good side to win! I want people having a happy ending, and the only way a villain can get a happy ending is being redeemed. And I want the villains to have a happy ending too because dying or getting tortured/being imprisioned after being suffering in your past is horrible. Yeah, I know villains hurt people, but some of them also were hurt, and although I don't justify them, I still want their pain to end and I want them to live, not just survive. I want them to change for the good, why is that so bad?

And even if they were "born evil" (what I doubt because for me villains are made not born) and "didn't suffered"- I want them to have a happy ending after redeeming because I want to believe in their goodness, in their humanity, and I don't want them to die because I think they also deserve a second chance in life and a chance to be happy (because if you can't be happy in this life, what's even the point?).

"But why would you want a villain having a happy ending after all they did????" Because I don't want them to suffer. "They made other people suffer, why would you want them to have a happy ending?" Because I believe no one deserves to have a bad ending in life. "So you defend the monsters in real life??? You support the real killers?? You are a murder apologist!!" Now hold on a fucking second. There's a fucking difference between liking a villain in fiction and want them to have a happy ending and want the real life villains to have a happy ending. Fiction is not fucking reality and you should know that. I want villains in fiction to redeem because I want to believe in their goodness, because I want to believe everyone is capable of being good, because I want to believe love and goodness can conquer all. Because I want to believe that no matter what, the good side will always win. Besides, most of the villains live in magic worlds, where sometimes death is not permanent, where you can see your loved ones even if it's not for a long time. And in fiction time-travel also exist. None of these things happen in reality. There's no magic, there's no time turner who can help you travel back in time to erase the villain's actions, there aren't Force Ghosts of your family or friends. Real life villains' actions are irrevocable and unforgivable. You can't bring back the dead because in this world once a person dies, that's the end of the line. But that doesn't happen in fiction. So stop comparing a real life villain actions with a fictional villain actions. They're not the same.

To end this post I want to say that the ones who like villains redemption (I'm a part of those people, of course) don't want all villains to be redeemed. There are villains we hate with all our heart, villains who are pure evil who doesn't deserve anything good. Villains like Gerard Argent, Dolores Umbridge, Sheev Palpatine, Captain Turner, Sebastian Shaw and Azulon. And more villains like those. So yeah, we do not want to see every villain redeemed.

[flamingpudding]

I love your writing so much but I'm here with a crack idea just imagine deage Dan is Klarion.

Dan was able to find out who he is outside of Danny then he was able to change his name Klarion Jackson Fenton/Nightingale he is still a little villain boy also now a mom boy.

Ghost King Danny is his mom young justice was so confused when Klarion you're the best gifts get your mom after not talking to him for a while to also begging them to pretend to be his friend . Justice League dark is panicking in the background about the electric being that just shows up.

Danny in full ghost king attire standing there with a plate of cookies ready to meet his son's new friends.

Thanks so much! I am glad you enjoy my writing!

Also thanks because I absolutely love this Idea/Prompt! Sooooo please enjoy this piece inspired by it! Also I haven't consumed a lot of DC material lately so i am basing this all on my memories. In other words.... I went with Tim's little team here.

Hope that's okay and that this won't disappoint.

-------------------

Dan, who was going by Klarion for some years now, had a massive problem. It was the huge kind of problem build on small bubbles of lies that then turned into this one giant bubble that was about to pop just because of one little question asked by his mom when his sister decided to throw him under the bus to deflect from herself and the fact that she was dating a demon. Don't get him wrong he still loves her, but man did he want to strangle Danielle right now.

"So Klarion, Ellie is right. When will I get to meet your friends you told me so much about?"

It was such an innocent question from his mom. And while his moms titles don't scare him, cause at some point in time they could have been his too, the happy dopey smile like nothing was wrong in the dimensions with little expectations directed at him was the scariest thing his mom could ever direct at him when he had asked THAT question.

So now Klarion was in need of a quick solution. When his mom had asked he had mumbled out a quick: "Next week maybe. We won't be busy with hero stuff then." He had started to form a plan. First of all, he needed to remember what all he had told his mom about his new and redeemed life on Earth 43 he had build for himself with the name Klarion Jackson Fenton-Nightingale.

Which fuck. There was a lot he had told his mom just so he wouldn't worry.

Cause now he also remembers that whenever he had gone out to cause some chaos he had made it seem to his mom like he was going out to bond with his new friend or help them with their hero duty. Well, in a way maybe his chaos causing could be seen as bonding. The ghostly kind, that is. And as for helping with the hero duty... he did give them work, something to do with their hero status. Anyway Klarion tried to remember all possible names he had dropped. Shit why did he also mention to his mom that he was working with heroes to make her proud? He should have name dropped some villains instead but nearly all of them were adults. He knew his mom would have frowned if he had only adult friends and no one around his age.

He was pacing his room in their castle. He need a plan, a good one at that. He knows he name dropped Robin, now Red Robin, Superboy and Impulse on a whim once. Superboy more so cause his mom had been interested in the Alien Heros of the Earth of the dimension he was partially living on now. He had mentioned Robin for the joke of knowing that there is a Dinner in an other Dimension with the same name. And because his Grandfather didn't like the Flash-clan which meant his mom didn't like them too much because of their messing with timelines either, he had mentioned being friends with Impulse on pure spite because of a punishment one day and to see their reactions. So he had to get these three on board anyway, and because for the heck of it he would get Wonder Girl involved too. It was never bad to have a girl in a friends group.

Klarion stopped his pacing. Turning towards his demonic ghost cat companion, kind of what Cujo was to his mom now. "Teekl, I think I have a plan. I will convince these Idiots, that shouldn't be a huge problem. Most of them are normale little flesh sacks." Teekl and him stared for some time at each other and after a moment Klarion huffed turning away with crossed arms. "It's a good plan don't be so sceptical, they are heroes right? They will not refuse my request!"

Well maybe Klarion should have planned this a bit better.

The next day Red Robin blinked at the witch boy up from the ground in the living room of what looked like to be an normal apartment. He had just been in Gotham, working on a case and now he was here? Looking to the left he also noticed that Superboy (the older), Impulse and Wonder Girl were also with him. They all looked stunned he observed and partially disoriented. Additionally they hadn't heard from Klarion since the last time they had foiled his plans on raging chaos upon the earth, that had been weeks ago.

"Kla-"

"I have summoned you heroes here. For the moment it is fruitless to try to leave because of the magic barrier." Okay rude to be cut of but that explained why he suddenly wasn't where he remembered to be last anymore. It was now Superboy who opened his mouth first but before he could even make a sound Klarion decided to speak over them again. "I have presents."

Four young heroes collectively blinked, confused, stunned and weirded out. As the which boy before them waved over to wards a table filled with boxes and packages. "I come in peace today, to proof that I brought these are presents, filled with various goods from different dimensions that should be to the liking of you all. Technologie, accessories, snacks, weapons, as well as clothing styles."

Red Robin shared a glance with his friends, a silent communication but before he once again could say anything Impulse was already by the table going through the stuff. They could here his 'oh's and 'ah's, which inevitably made them curious and they wandered over too. Klarion was not acting hostile at all yet but Red Robin did not trust that so he kept the which boy in clear view the entire time.

"Rob! You gotta see this! That actual futuristic Tech!"

"Look at these snacks."

"These accessories don't look to bad..."

His eye twitched when he noticed Klarion was sporting a smug look. Red Robin had to ask now, because this was not normal for the other. "Okay usually you would have started some big shot chaos plan by now. I don't buy this peace offering act and your way to formal talking. So what is going on?"

The other three, thankfully in Red Robins opinion, finally looked away from the tempting gifts and also turned their attention fully on Klarion. Who's smug smile falter as he let out a sigh and stared at them with what they could only describe as a frustrated look.

"My mom is planning to visit me."

"And?" Impulse asked between munching on three different bags of chips that where on the table.

"And he believes I am friends with you idiots."

They stared slack jawed. Impulse was pinching himself like he couldn't believe what they had just heard. Did one of their Villains, just informed them that their mom believes they were friends? Red Robin was starting to think he might be in a sleep deprived Hallucination.

"Why would she?" Wonder Girl questioned next to which Klarion glared at her with fire in his eyes.

"First of, my mom uses the pronouns he/Him. Be rude to my mom and I will find a way to make your life a permanent hell on earth." Wonder Girl blinked lifting her hands as in a sign of peace. "Second, my mom is under the believe that i work with heroes not against them. I do not have the heart to disappoint him after everything that happened in the past. So I embellished the truth a little."

"A little?" Superboy retorted sarcastically, to which they caught a light blush dusting the which boy's cheeks.

"Look my sister threw me under the bus and my mom wants to meet my friends now! So I need you idiots to play nice with me for when he visits!"

"And we will do that because?" Red Robin crossed his arms, watching their villain sceptically still not really buying this entire act. This was to strange of an behaviour change. Something was up, and he was going to get behind it.

Klarion on the other hand was starting to panic internally. His plan was not as he had hoped. The presents he had specifically gotten from other dimensions with what he believed was their interests did not work to make them simply accept his request. This was the last time he would listen to old man Vlad on how to bribe humans, he wasted his entire week on getting all that stuff. His mom was going to show up soon enough he need to have them act as his friends by then so he could remove the magic barrier. Or else his mom would notices he faked everything.

They left him no choice. He would have to throw his pride away for the sole reason to not disappoint his mom.

All four Young Justice Heroes blinked as Klarion suddenly threw himself on the ground before them into a pleading position.

"Please! I beg you, just for the time my mom is here. Please act like my friends!"

"I didn't think Klarion was a mama's boy...." Impulse whispered to the rest of them in pure disbelief as they stared stunned at the kneeling witch boy.

Cut to the heroes that noticed their teens were missing.....

"Where is he?" Batman growled at the Constantine who was sighing tiredly.

"Look mate, the way you and the other Spandex wearing friends explained it, made it sound like they got summoned by a being of the Infinit Realms." The blond man sighed lighting another cigarette eying the four heroes, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and Flash. Zatanna was behind him pouring over a book about the realms and trying to find a tracking spell to trace it back and to where they could have been summoned.

"Don't you have something like a tracker on your boy?" Batman only growled something under his breath to which the Brite couldn't help to arch and eyebrow. Constantine was going to say something sarcasting as Deadman suddenly appeared a panicked look on him. "The Ghost King has chosen to come to our dimension."

"Say bloody what now?" All attention that had been on the heroes and their problem of missing teenage heroes turned now to Deadman and the news he brought with him. "The ghost, shades and spirits talked, for the king has decided to visit our Dimension. They are in an uproar, no one knows of why our King is on his way."

"Bloody fucking hell!" Constantine cursed. "We are fucking screwed! Isn't that guy a fucking tyrannical eldrich war maniac?!"

Deadman nodded solemnly and Constantine uttered another hearty and colourful 'fuck'. While the heroes present exchanged worried glances, not only were their kids missing but now a, by the sounds of it, highly dangerous being decided to appear in their dimension? Batman couldn't help but think that there had to be a connection to the missing teens and this.

Meanwhile in the Infinite Realms the Ghost King Castle...

Danny smoothed out his fur trimmed cape and adjusted his crown so it was floating nicely and evenly on his head. Today was the day he would get to meet his sons friends. He needed to make a good first impression. That was why he had chosen to take on his Ghost King form for this. With the wave of his hand he made an ice mirror appear before him, checking how he was looking once again. Once satisfied he nodded to himself looking over towards Fright Knight who was holding the plate of cookies he had baked himself. It was the fifth batch, and the only one that didn't turn out burned. He had needed Jazz help for this one to turn out well. It was only proper if he brought some cookies for the kids. Also he would have loved to bring his families fudge but... the last time he had tried making them had turned into a disaster.

"Thanks Frighty. Do you think Klarion's friends will like these? Wait don't answer! If they don't like them I will just get something else to thank them for taking care of my boy." Danny rambled on as he glanced at the plate of cookies in his hands. Why was he so nervous? He was just going to get to meet his little boy's friends. Sure his boy had dropped some stories about them and his adventures with them here and there. But hearing stories and meeting the kids were two different things.

Shaking his head Danny put on his best smile as he summoned a portal to Klarions apartment in the 43th Dimension of Earth. It was time to visit his boy in the place he had made his second home and thank the people that looked after his kid.

[worstcharacterpoll]

[Image description: A tournament bracket of 32 contenders, labeled "Tumblr's most hated." The matchups on the left are Vriska vs. Pearl from SU; Rex from Victorious vs. Rick Sanchez; Ansem the Wise vs. Gul Dukat; Kylo Ren vs. Kokichi Ouma; Scrappy Doo vs. Sheldon Cooper; Pierre from Stardew vs. Mort from Madagascar; Seraphine from League vs. Heimskr; and Jurgen Leitner vs. Andre Glacier. The matchups on the right are Walter White vs. Light Yagami; Buck Cluck vs. Ross Geller; Bramblestar vs. Starlight Glimmer; Goro Akechi vs. Pariston Hill; Katsuki Bakugo vs. Berdly; Angel Dust vs. the Impostor; Olaf from Frozen vs. Hooty; and Zenos viator Galvus vs. Tony Stark. The bracket is red on a black background. End ID]

Here is the official bracket for the most Hated Character on Tumblr! Each round will last 24 hours, with a 12 hour break in between. Round 1 should start Feb 9, 2023 at 9:00 AM CST.

As a reminder, this tournament is for the characters that you hate the most, so always vote for your least favorite of the two options. The winner will be publicly executed.

FAQ under cut:

Q: Why did you put in x character and not y character? Aren't there more hateable characters from that franchise?

A: I wanted to keep the competition light-hearted, funny, and interesting. I intentionally avoided most shitty parent characters, dictators, characters who were meant to be hated, etc., as well as characters heavily associated with bigotry and sexual assault, and gravitated towards characters that were more divisive in fandom. Exceptions were only made for characters I am familiar enough with and can use my own judgement for. Using Zenos as an example: He is a villain who is very evil and meant to be hated, which I mostly avoided when taking suggestions for things I wasn't familiar with myself. However, he's very divisive between people who think he's a good interesting villain, people who don't think he's a good villain and don't like him in the story at all, and people who want him carnally. Walter White is also meant to be hated, but he has a meme status, and as a villain protagonist I think he's more interesting than most "meant to be hated" characters. Also, there are certain franchises that I simply didn't want to include. If JK Rowling wasn't such a real and horrible political presence, owing all her influence to Harry Potter, I would've definitely put Snape on the poll. As it stands, I don't really want to give HP any attention. TL;DR answer: Because it's funnier that way

Q: But I LIKE that character :(

A: As mentioned before, I specifically gravitated more towards characters who are more divisive rather than universally hated. They are usually more interesting, and there is more variety with those types of characters - you don't have shitty dad character #1 vs. shitty dad character #2. I actually looked for "anti-(character)" tags and discourse about that character when making decisions about who to include. lol If you actually like some of these characters (uh, my condolences), vote against them in their respective matchups.

Q: Is it too late to suggest a replacement?

A: Yes.

Q: Why are you doing this?

A: I feed off of hatred and violence. I want to see who tumblr users REALLY hate.

Q: Why Pearl?

A: It was quite a while ago now so I get it if people don't remember, but Pearl discourse used to be a big thing and people argued that she was irredeemable for many of the things she did early on in the show. If you remember the "Pearl hates the Irish" meme, that was a parody of how much people hated her

Q: Why Hooty?

A: I haven't seen the Owl House but I'm told many people think he's annoying. Also he's voiced by Alex Hirsch and fuck that guy he did my boy Ford so dirty I'm still mad about this

Q: Why Starlight Glimmer?

A: MLP:FiM is another show I didn't really watch but she was a villain who got redeemed and became a main character and a lot of people think her redemption arc was rushed and botched and she actually made a lot of people quit watching the show. One of my close friends really really really hates her and I don't think that's an isolated incident

Q: Why Berdly?

A: Annoying. Personally I think his arc of becoming less annoying was pretty fun but a lot of people still hate him.

Q: Why Bakugo (instead of Mineta)?

A: I actually debated this a lot and held a preliminary poll which Mineta actually won. But then I decided democracy is dead because Mineta really wouldn't be as interesting as Bakugo in this tournament because he's basically universally hated. Bakugo is more interesting because people who hate him REALLY hate him, while people who love him REALLY love him. Kind of like Vriska. I think. I never read Homestuck and I don't plan on ever doing so.

Q: Why Tony Stark?

A: He's a heavily divisive character because he's a war profiteer billionaire with a superiority complex, but the narrative treats him as a morally pure hero. Also, he's MCU Spider-Man's mentor and most of MCU Spider-Man is basically defined by Tony Stark and he's not allowed to be his own character. There's a bunch of other stuff but I didn't watch and I don't care about most of the MCU. Personally I'm a really big Spider-Man fan and I despise him for what he did to Peter Parker but I shall refrain from making this a long rant.

Q: Why did you include characters that you're not familiar with?

A: I didn't want to exclusively have characters from my interests. I wanted a bit of variety. Before the poll started, I accepted submissions for candidates, and basically trusted submitters to send in decent characters. Some of the characters I ended up with may go against the vague guidelines I set for myself, which kind of sucks, but that's how it is now.

Q: This bracket sucks.

A: Make your own tournament then. I'm just some guy making a tournament on tumblr dot com for free. Don't take it too seriously.

[rat-rambles]

Ok we have to talk about the parallels of bill and gideon because I've seen no one do it and there's a lot. Like, gideon is to bill what stan is to Mable and Ford is to dipper. This parallel includes bill and ford's relationship compared to gideon and Mabel's because there are parallels. I will mention how this pertains to billford. This will be long. Book of bill spoilars obvously.

A couple ground rules I have screen shots but only from the parts uploaded to YouTube because I'm sick and not dealing with Disney pluss for this. 2 we're takeing the way this show uses parallels for granted and it's worth mentioning stan, Ford and bill are the bad ending for the pines and Mable dipper and gideon are the good end hence gideon getting redeemed and Ford haveing to suffer thinking stan was functionaly dead for like a few days or something. So yes they are diffrent and there diffreces are thematically important and intentionally nothing in this franchise is an accident and where working with that primis. Lastly, in the book of Bill, I'm assuming that pages from the journal are real and unaltered along with documents. The only thing I will take as true from bill in the book are things backed by other non bill sorces or the show witch I'll cite when we get there strap in.

Luts start easy

1)

Don't mind YouTube auto captions

I'll take over gravity falls and you'll rule with me

2

The outher pine punchs leading to a blue explosion and the thought that oh they might die they didn't.

3)

I couldn't find the one of bill holding them but you know the one

Ok time to get a little harder now

4)

Oh I've hit the photo limit becuse I'm on my phone and like I said I'm sick so I'm not moving but we all remember when gideon and Mable were like "opera glasses" in sync

At the beginning of their friendship, they both show their bonding into deeper feelings for each other by saying the same thing at the same time.

5)

Giddeon also blames dipper for Mable breaking up with him and bill blames stan for getting between him and Ford, also his plans in the book of Bill.

Ok I think that's enough evidence now let me tell you why this is important, starting with their timeliness.

1) villain becomes friends with pines.

2) villain offers pines everything they want (Mable clothes and glitter Ford knowledge of the univers)

3) villain trys to manipulate

4) the split

Mable eventually learns to reject gideon when he gets between her and dipper (by trying to kill him)

Ford at first is completely gungho about bills plan (yes at this point he still wants what bill is offering and gideon dint but he also dint have his sibling to talk him down and that's the point that Ford was vunerable without Stanly to protect him like dipper protected Mable by interfering). When Ford sees bills true nature he dose cut it off like Mable ( as far as wether or not ford is actually into bill romantically using this lens you can go both ways but it kind of dosnt matter. Either he didn't like bill and didn't see that he was uping the romance the way Mable dint see what gideon was doing at first. Or he did see and either willfully played along or was genuinely into the triangle becuase agin old pines are the bad ending that made bad choices. The old men's mistakes are to be learned from kids.)

5) villain react violently

When gidion trys to take Mable by force a thing gideon says bill explained to him (Bill told him to do the love cage same as in the book same as the pyramid in the show) dipper saves her becuse twins that stay together stay alive.

Ford gets solidly mind tortured for what I assume is a couple weeks in the book of bill. ( based on one of the postit note back and forward was every night that's about 6 days and there's about 6 days of mind shanigans recorded after I might have miss counted though) Ford FINALLY calls stan who saves him... by acidently pushing him through a portal, well it works.

6) villain is PISSED and ups the anti by trying to take over gravity falls (wow that's crazy it happend twice ).

7) they resync here villain says their favorite Pines is the love of their life we'll rule together over gravity falls (wether they like it or not)

8) the twin comes to save the villains favorite pines and they punch the shit out of the villain.

9 the pines learn a lesson of twins who stick together stay alive

Now for my point

So besides I think this is some killer writing. I am going to be anoying now becuse yes Bill haveing a fat crush on Ford is cannon and yeah I think that's a big deal because Alex made my queer coded villain king actually queer and that's just deeply cool. Alex set up a standard for what toxic men pursuing a unrequited relationship is and then had Bill do that that's not a acident and the doubling down in the book of bill adding more parallels than we already had from the show witch was alot makes this cristal clear. Now agin how Ford felt we can go back and forward about, but bill no that bitch gay sorry; our god Alex decreed it and there's nothing you can do about it. Thanks for reading K thanks Bye

Special thanks to my crazy girlfriend for editing this 😅 yes it was worse

[ringleader-inky]

Lily Orchard is stupid but what else is new?

So recently Lily has made a challenge that is as follows:

(Keep these rules in mind)

And AntGr and CrimsonEnder made a list of 50 of those charcters. Which Lily responded to and hoo boy is it bad.

Now I'm only going to be doing several characters from this list because 1. I don't know some of these characters and 2. I can only handle so much of Lily's stupidity. So with that out of the way let's get this show on the road.

Of course you'd put N here because you didn't understand his story to begin with. N definitely does fall under number 2 because he was raised by Ghetsis. You know... THE LEADER OF TEAM PLASMA! I've said this before, but I'll say it again N essentially grew up in a cult. That's not even mentioning that in black and white 2 they show that some of Team Plasma really did think they were freeing pokemon. You see part of Team Plasma split because some followed N's ideologies and others followed Ghetsis. They have a whole safehouse in Driftveil City where they protect pokemon separated from their trainers. But yeah N's ideology was totally swept under the rug guys.

First of all, Donkey Kong was actually a villain. It was in his very first game where he kidnapped Pauleen. You know.... this one. You were probably around when it came out Lily.:

So technically Donkey Kong is qualified for this list believe it or not.

As for Dedede and Meta Knight their case is quite simple.

In Dedede's case in the game Kirby's Nightmare In Dreamland. Dedede literally breaks the Star Rod that powers the Fountain of Dreams. Which allows the people of dreamland to have dreams, but since the Star Rod no longer powers it there's no dreams. However Dedede did this because he was trying to keep Nightmare from absorbing the Fountain Of Dream's power and taking over the world. Nightmare is cosmic deity that's evil will destroy Dreamland if he got out. So in that instance Dedede does have a point. After all if the Star Rod isn't in the fountain then Nightmare won't come out and kill everyone.

As for Meta Knight's case. Well... just look at fucking Meta Knightmare. The reason why Meta Knight wants to conquer Dreamland is because Dreamland is lazy. While that might not seem like a good point, consider that Dedede is stealing food from the people and how there's some sort of cosmic threat every year or so. You kinda start to see his point a little bit. But if that doesn't work then how about in Squeak Squad where he steals the chest from Kirby and Daroach. The chest had Dark Nebula inside of it and was sealed away. Therefore having someone try and open it would be a big fucking problem.

Last but not least... Edgeworth:

Before we get into why this point is bullshit I'd like to bring up this ask:

I bring this up because it proves that Lily doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about. You see Edgeworth isn't just a state prosecutor. HE'S A CHIEF PROSECUTOR! He's not just some joe shmo. Also really, prosecutor can't be evil? May I call Manfred Von Karma to the stand:

In case you don't know. This man is a prosecutor that had a perfect record. All of his defendants were served the guilty sentence. However the only reason why they were found guilty was because he forged evidence. Meaning Manfred is responsible for putting people innocent in prison. He even went so far as to murder Edgeworth's father. And guess who was his protege?

That's right none other than Miles Edgeworth himself!

Meaning that up till Phoenix had arrived Edgeworth was doing the exact same thing Von Karma did. Granted not forging evidence, but still putting innocent people in jail because of he wanted to keep his reputation and he didn't care for justice. Therefore in the first game Edgeworth was the villain. Whether you like it or not. And because Lily never specified that the villain had to be redeemed or not Edgeworth is viable enough to be on this list. So check fucking mate Lily.

[paper-gold-theories]

PaperGold Headcanon: Flug Gave GoldHeart his Earrings

This is an extremely far fetched PaperGold Headcanon 😂 but I noticed that during the timeline when Miss Heed saw GoldHeart on TV in Flug's flashback and when she has a most likely old magazine of him, you can see he is not wearing earrings.

(again this is far fetched because the image is blurry)

However when Miss Heed joined The Golden Rule, you can see him wearing his gold earrings.

The earrings are the one thing that doesn't fit with GoldHeart's costume

GoldHeart dyes his hair gold, wears a gold cape, and heck even gold knee pads so why wouldn't his earrings be also heart shaped?

I made a few theories that Flug and GoldHeart met and became good friends friends (or possibly something more) after Miss Heed left the academy and before she joined the Golden Rule.

(1) (2) (3)

I theorized that GoldHeart once off mentioned to Flug that he wants to get some gold earrings and Flug to make his friend happy, decided to buy or since he is a genius inventor and engineer who could make and build robots hence has experience forging with metal, most likely made the earrings himself from some gold from his own stash of stolen gold to give it as a present for his friend.

GoldHeart is touched by the sweet gesture from his beloved friend, and decides to wear the earrings and not take it off even in his hero costume although they don't match his costume theme.

P.E.A.C.E. offered to give GoldHeart earrings to match his costume but he refused, saying that he wants to where his earrings because it was from someone special.

One of the reasons Flug recognised GoldHeart was his friend Herbert Leth was because of the earrings he gave him, which led to GoldHeart finding out that Flug is a villain which resulted in them having a feud.

Even after they become Arch-Enemies, GoldHeart still wears the earrings to remind him of Flug and as a hope and motivation that he can redeem him or eliminate villainy forever one day so that they can be together.

Flug probably thought GoldHeart was still wearing the earrings to mock him as a reminder of their "false friendship" and that he managed to trick him.

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

One thing I enjoy about DR is that it unintentionally or perhaps intentionally explores the legacy of a certain controversial character but one I enjoy and hope gets closure. Despite never being mentioned or seen, the story does seem to allude to this character which indicates they may eventually return. I’m of course talking about Harumi.

Take Beatrix for example. A white haired royal who hates the ninja, is incredibly immature and had the emperor assassinated so she could take power. The difference is that Beatrix is a pure evil dictator with no redeeming qualities, no soft spot for children and all of her intentions are purely self serving as opposed to misguided. She’s kind of a mix of Harumi’s backstory, Iron Baron’s cruelty towards dragons and had her rule challenged via broadcast message before being overthrown by ninja, civilians and dragons like Emperor Garmadon.

In DR, despite not being mentioned, we can see the impact Harumi has had upon Lloyd. While escaping from Imperium, Lloyd warns Wyldfyre to be more careful indicating he’s a bit more cautious about causing collateral damage during battles. In the opening of the show, we see Lloyd showing concern for Arin and promising to save his parents. I wonder if Lloyd ever saw Arin as his chance to prevent another Harumi. We see Lloyd trying to make Arin feel like a part of the family and giving him constant reassurance and warmth, something Harumi didn’t get much of. Ironically, he’s actually hurting Arin by giving him constant encouragement but never actually training him.

Then there’s Arin himself. Everything from losing his parents in a disaster to being a fan of the ninja feels intentionally familiar. The difference is that his parents are still alive which gives him reason to hold out hope that he can save them and he was able to find and befriend Sora instead of being forced into a position he doesn’t want. In season 2, things are changing for Arin and not for the better. While he enjoys being a ninja, he feels unhappy at having not progressed and feels his needs aren’t being met while Wyldfyre and Sora are growing stronger. Knowing how the FSM and Wu both failed their first student, I wonder if Lloyd will break the cycle or will end up repeating the mistakes with Arin. If Arin does have a villain arc or blames Lloyd for not saving his parents, how will Lloyd react especially considering DR Lloyd seems to have healed a bit from the trauma Harumi caused. DR is giving me a lot of feels. I really like how it feels both fresh but also familiar.

@iamsonormalaboutninjago

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

btw this is my cue to tell y’all to check out carmen sandiego, if you haven’t already! it’s not super deep but it still has a compelling storyline and good messages. and most importantly, it has ACTUAL poc representation, various male AND female characters with different body types, and some casual queer representation.

(mild spoilers below, because i really want to gush about this show)

it also does a lot of the stuff that spop fails to do. shadowsan gets a pretty good redemption arc and carmen isn’t forced to trust or forgive him immediately. he also has an arc with his brother where he rights the wrong he once did, and actually puts in effort to be a better person (and if i remember correctly, his brother still doesn’t forgive him, which is actually really refreshing to see). when the villains try to drive a wedge between carmen and shadowsan, they actually talk things out and COMMUNICATE instead of jumping to conclusions for added drama.

the show also places a lot of emphasis on platonic relationships. carmen’s quest to learn the truth about her family and find her mother is prioritized over her love life. she has a really wholesome friendship with player, ivy and zack (especially player, i love how much they care about each other) and she develops a nice father-daughter type relationship with shadowsan. she also has a platonic sibling-type relationship with her childhood friend graham, and she insists on keeping it platonic and referring to him as her older brother, even when he starts showing romantic interest in her (they weren’t raised as siblings or anything btw they were just school friends).

in the end, the villains get arrested and actually have to pay the price for what they did. and they weren’t even war criminals, they were just thieves, but the story doesn’t insist on coddling them or redeeming all of them for no reason. and the kids (now adults) who were raised in V.I.L.E get a chance to redeem themselves without imposing themselves on any of the people they hurt.

i also love that this isn’t a story of a chosen hero. carmen chose her own destiny, it was not thrust upon her. she was just a normal person and she continues being a normal person while trying to do good in the world, and inspiring people to follow her lead along the way. not to mention, i really like how refreshing her personality is. she’s sassy and cunning and quick-witted, she sometimes uses dubious methods to do the right thing, she knows her worth and knows when to set boundaries, and she’s a hero despite not fitting into the ideal hero archetype.

[catastrophichues]

smth that like. i end up thinking abt a lot is the way vil is a character whose in-game experiences are really mirrored by a big chunk of the way fandom treats him.

vils beauty is smth that he’s been villainized for his entire life. he’s too beautiful, too gorgeous, and in the minds of many, that automatically equates to things like “mean/evil/cruel.” as if his beauty = villain

and that perception is one he struggles with. no one lets him play the role of hero bc a lot of the time, a hero is someone the audience roots for and relates to. but no one can “relate” to vil bc his beauty others him. neige has a beauty that is innocent but also attainable. that’s what makes him the perfect hero. for some reason, it’s almost unfathomable to most that someone beautiful who also cares about being beautiful could be smth other than a “mean girl” or a villain.

and the thing is, vil does care abt beauty! and that’s okay! valuing beauty is not inherently evil, and the way fanon (and when I say fanon, i obviously don’t mean everyone, there’s also a lot of ppl who see vil and actually understand the complexities of his character) twists that to “forcing his standard upon others” is honestly wrong. vil holds himself to such a high standard, but the “standard” he’s holding others too is being the best versions of themselves they could be.

his correcting epel on language usage is literally not smth sinister or classist. the EN translation didnt get the translation accurate. correcting epel was literally abt being aware that not many would be able to understand epel if he continued to speak in that dialect, and in other cases, seen as rude. he was preparing epel for future opportunities and circumstances. epels grandma literally switches her way of speaking when meeting the boys at Harveston, so it’s not smth that’s got zero precedent.

and in cases where vil is believed to be envious of others beauty it’s like—who doesn’t feel jealous at times? he mentions being a little jealous that silver does nothing with his hair and yet it’s so fine. that’s understandable! vil is someone who puts work in his beauty. he doesn’t just coast on what’s already there he exercises. he cut out mayo even tho he loved it bc he ended up breaking out. he holds himself to strict food regimens. he makes beauty products. so like-this envy? it’s healthy, he expresses it, and then he gifts silver self-made hair and skin products. bc his envy doesn’t manifest as wanting others to be less than him. it manifests as appreciation and wanting to see improvement. bc!! he’s a good person!!

ive seen fics and content where it’s like “he values beauty/his figure over the lives of others.” my dudes. this man literally sacrificed his youth and beauty to save idia/close the underworld. “Oh but he regretted it! and he got it back!” yeah he cried his heart out who WOULDN’T! and as for getting it back—learning a lesson or making sacrifices shouldn’t always hinge on like whether or not the character makes these sacrifices continues to suffer or whatever. like redemption (even tho he rlly doesn’t need to be redeemed) doesn’t only become valid if someone suffers or if suffering is constant.

vil gets relegated to roles like “the bitchy ex” or the “mean girl” or someone who is constantly cruel and vain and a bully when that’s literally the antithesis of what vil is.

so for that, i really really appreciate the content creators who write fic or make art where vil as a character is more than the villain he tries so hard not to be.

[ominus-potato]

so about that new episode, huh? (<- NOT OKAY MENTALLY)

It’s definitely the start of a new arc. Since October is coming up in a few months, the finale will probably be a WOTFI since they’re always around October/November time.

In terms of the actual episode, it was good! I love seeing Four go crazy again and think it’s really interesting to see him break down. This time it seems to be over tourism instead of perfection since he mentioned tourism twice.

What do I think is causing this? I wouldn’t be surprised if it had something to do with the Lobotomy he had a few months ago. A meme guardian having their meme lobe removed? That can’t be good. I think that’s also what’s causing a few of the video titles to change. Four is arguing with himself internally.

Hopefully this’ll also mean we’ll finally see more cosmology lore but I doubt it. I SWEAR IF I DON’T SEE MY BBG SMG1 SOON IM GONNA FREAK OUT!

I was SUPER happy to see Mr Puzzles again. He’s one of my favourite characters and I honestly don’t want him to be redeemed. And if he does, it’s WAY too early for a redemption rn.

Where do I think it’s going from here? Well, like I said: WOTFI 2024!! I think that either SMG4 or Mr Puzzles will be the villain for this year’s Wotfi and all of these things are building up to it! I think that if SMG4 is the villain, Mario and the rest of the crew will team up to take him down. OR, Mario and Mr Puzzles will work together to save the SMG4 crew/get into the meme factory. They both have business in there so I can see Mr Puzzles pretending to be an ally for his own gain then betraying Mario once he has what he wants from the factory. Mario would want to get into the factory to save his friends after what happened this week or potentially whatever could happen later down the line.

I based on what we’ve seen, I don’t think Meggy will be back to normal for a while and the next few episodes will probably not have too much SMG4 in them since he’s busy doing this tourism bullshit.

Anyway, those are my thoughts and theories on the new episode!

[animentality]

Listen, I know I said I wasn't pro redeemed Gortash before, but.

But.

I could bend on that idea, if Gortash died and went to the House of Hope.

If he was humiliated by Raphael, asking him if he truly thought that he was more than that scared little boy he bought all those years ago, the boy his servants used to beat black and blue, who used to cry at night for his parents. A boy who was terrified of him, and hated being powerless, who spent his life trying to obtain power, so he wouldn't be afraid again.

Gortash dying and being forced back there...and having to face the fact that this is what he's done to other people...and for what reason?

In the end, he was still that helpless child.

Because here's the thing right. The dark urge is only redeemable because they lost their memories and their old self truly died when they got their head split open.

They only became redeemable when they had a second chance, and took it. When they chose to make themselves better and to fix the damage they caused.

Just imagine Gortash having to be back in the House of Hope, and imagining himself spending a fucking eternity in there...

That's divine, karmic punishment enough for a villain.

Not to mention that Raphael would laugh at him and torture him and force him to wear those hideous prison robes, completely stripping him of the pomp that he used to defend himself for his entire life.

Forcing him to dress like a slave again.

But imagine the dark urge waltzed in and slaughtered Raphael for him.

And saved hope.

The parallels!!!

Gortash couldn't break the cycle of abuse, but the dark urge could do it for him, and give him a second chance!!!

Gortash was abandoned as a child, and he used and abandoned everyone he ever met, so that none of them could hurt him first!!! But the dark urge didn't abandon him.

They came back for him.

He hated them in his final moments, because they had become a hero, something they both used to despise. The ultimate betrayal...but then.

This is also what heroes do. They kill villains...and they save people.

Gortash would ask, why did you help me, what's in it for you?

And they'd just say, it was the right thing to do, fool.

Raphael was a bastard.

So I killed him.

Same as I killed you. For being a bastard.

But then they'd throw his contract at him and be like here. You're free now.

Be a piece of shit again, and I'll kill you again.

But maybe his first act of contrition is making the steel watch help you in the final battle.

I think there's a data mined line where Jaheira says you were made to save the city, right? to the steel watch, when you summon them?

That's really good.

Like Gortash...ruining the city with his stupid absolute plan and his tyrannical steel watch bullshit...

And the arc words, of actually doing what he said he was doing, and saving the city he was was ruining...from the mess he made.

Ahh.

Also dark urge specifically...

I still think about the dev notes, about Gortash seeing the dark urge as something more than a monster.

Or even, seeing them as a person, and not a monster at all.

He gave them a chance before they were even good. He saw them as something more than a bhaalspawn. He doesn't care if they reject Bhaal or accept him, he doesn't care if they have their memories or not. He wanted them on his side.

It would've upset him, no doubt, when they refused him.

But saving him by killing Raphael...yeah.

Maybe he'd wonder if there isn't still some of the old dark urge in there.

The only person in the world who might've really cared about him, even if they don't remember it...but it'd be a glimmer.

It'd be a little spark, a tiny connection, that would make him think they were paying him back for his faith in them.

And then maybe he'd realize what a real hero looks like, and how they act, and if someone as cruel as the dark urge could be reformed...maybe he could be too.

Anyway.

Still fucking better than the current endings, where he either dies or dies.

I'm talking out my ass, as per usual.

He still can't quite make up for his sins.

But...but I....I don't know. Dont talk to me.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

The Many Failures of Lila's Writing

There are three main issues with Lila Rossi (or whatever her name is): she was introduced too early, she doesn't fill a unique role in the story, and her lies are too over the top for her to feel like a good villain. Let's go through that list in order because the issues build to create the show's most annoying character even though her setup could have lead to a legitimately great character who we would have all loved to hate.

Issue 1: Lila Shows Up Three Seasons Too Early

Lila is introduced in the final episode of season one and then essentially disappears from the show for a full season. The only time we see her in season two is her brief appearance in season two's finale where she takes on the role of Volpina again in order to help Gabriel fake Ladybug's death. That's also the episode where we learn that Lila has been "in Achu" for some unknown amount of time.

[image: a list of Lila's season two appearances (source)]

Season three sees Lila show up with reasonable regularity (8 episodes, none of which are two-parters) and we get a real conflict with her, truly establishing her as a villain who lies like crazy and who wants to destroy Marinette.

Then season four comes and Lila is once again forgotten about. She shows up more than she did in season two, but only as a background character and most episodes don't see her at all. She doesn't have a single line until the final three episodes of the season and her role in these episodes is exceedingly minor. She does a few petty things to remind you that she's awful, but she's not the focus of the plot. She's just there to remind you that she exists and to establish her and Chloe as coconspirators of some sort.

[image: a list of Lila's season four appearances (source)]

Then season five comes and Lila is back to being an active antagonist. She shows up in almost every episode and we even get her very lackluster defeat.

This is some of the worst pacing that I have ever seen. It's honestly impressively bad. I hope the issue speaks for itself, but in case it doesn't, you don't chop a story up like this without a good reason and, frankly, their isn't one. Lila's introduction, villain setup, and defeat should have all take place over the course of a season or two, forming a mini arc.

Just in case you don't know what that is, most stories have a main conflict that drives the whole narrative (ex: getting the butterfly miraculous back) but within that story you have lots of mini stories. Things that get resolved so that it feels like things are moving forward and so that the audience stays engaged. If you don't get any satisfying resolutions until five seasons in (or more), then the audience will start to get annoyed or just stop watching. It's also a good way to keep expectations from getting built up too high. If every season or every other season has a satisfying conclusion to some big conflict, then you don't leave everything riding on the big finale.

By chopping Lila's story up, you made the audience spend four seasons dreaming of her defeat. Expectations were sky high. She's more hated than Gabe! If she's been introduced mid season 4 and had the exact same story arc, then her lackluster take down would be a mild disappointment and not a major issue for most of the fandom.

Issue 2: Lila and Chloe Should Never have Coexisted

When it comes to story telling, characters fill roles. Ladybug is the lead. Alya is the plucky best friend. Gabriel is the big bad. Etc. Etc.

Generally speaking, you only want one character in a given role. Having two or more characters in the same role leads to character bloat where characters are fighting for screen time because they don't have a clear place in the story. This is especially true for key antagonistic roles. It's a lot easier to balance two best friends than it is to balance two big bads.

Enter Chloe and Lila.

I've mentioned before that I thought that Chloe was going to be redeemed. The reason I thought this was not because of anything to do with Chloe. It was because the show introduced Lila and, narratively speaking, Lila and Chloe are the same character. They're both petty school bullies whose main job is to cause trouble for Marinette while she's at school and to give setups for akumas.

However, in terms of perceived threat, Lila is the bigger badder Chloe. No one but Sabrina likes Chloe. Everyone but Marinette likes Lila. Chloe doesn't make plans. Lila lives to manipulate and plot. If you're going to get ride of Chloe, Lila is who you'd replace her with. That's just how this works.

One of the most well known examples of this type of setup is Zuko and Azula from Avatar the Last Airbender. Zuko is the main antagonist of season one, but season two sees him step out of that role as he starts his journey of self-discovery and redemption. And who is introduced at the end of seasons one? Azula, Zuko's evil, more powerful sister. In season two, Azula fills Zuko's former role, but also makes things feel more serious because she's a bigger badder Zuko.

This brings us back to a big part of issue one. Namely, Lila's ongoing disappearing act. She only does that because of Chloe.

Chloe is a much easier villain to write. She doesn't have to hide anything. She is openly petty and evil. So if you're going to pick a character for a petty conflict, you're going to pick Chloe. The only time Lila gets pulled in is when the drama revolves around lies because Chloe is actually a strikingly honest character. She rarely lied prior to her "friendship" with Lila because, for the most part, Chloe doesn't care if everyone hates her. She only cares about the opinions of a chosen few. (Or, at least, she acts like she does.)

For Lila to work, Chloe needed to be redeemed or written off the show. The best proof of this is seasons five, where Chloe straight up becomes Lila's minion because the writers had to force that relationship if they wanted to have both characters involved in the plot. It's also why season four saw Chloe suddenly obsessed with Marinette when, prior to that, Chloe bullied everyone. The only way to team Chloe and Lila up was to give them a common goal and that didn't exist in the first three seasons.

So, building off of point one, Lila should have been introduced much later and she should have stepped into Chloe's shoes after Chloe either switched roles or completely left the show.

Issue 3: The Lies

I think that we can all agree that Lila is a terrible liar. Even a toddler could see through the BS that spews from her mouth. There are multiple satisfying Lila takedown fics that don't involve clever plots to beat her. They involve Alya or someone else doing a google search because - even with the declining quality of that tool - that's still all that it would take to prove what Lila is.

This is a really bad way to write a character who is supposed to be a master manipulator. Especially when she's going to be the next big bad. They desperately needed to tone her down.

For example, DON'T have her claim to be Ladybug's best friend. Have her claim that Ladybug saved her. That would still go up on the Ladyblog and, more importantly, it would be a lot harder to disprove. I doubt that Ladybug remembers everyone she saves so no one would fault Alya for just taking that at face-value, but Marinette could still instantly peg Lila as a liar.

Tinnitus from saving Jagged Stone's cat? How about tinnitus from being too close to the speakers at Jagged Stone's latest concert? The concert where Lila even got to meet him because she had back stage passes. Once again, hard to disprove. Jagged meets a lot of fans. I doubt he'd be able to tell you that she was lying.

And definitely don't have her openly state that she's a liar. The fact that she did that and was STILL able to manipulate the adult characters is abysmal writing. Especially because it comes right before Lila disappears for a season, giving the impression that her confession essentially defeated her, only for the show to go PSYCH! No one cares about her confession, it meant nothing for the Lila conflict.

I've had someone tell me that they think that Lila's lies were suppose to be a joke and, to be fair, that's plausible. The show relies on a lot of ridiculous humor. If Lila had shown up later, then this might have worked. But because Lila has been around for so long, we've all had time to think about her lies and build up the expectation of how they'd be handled.

I don't just mean Lila being exposed. I mean the fallout of all of her "fans" having to deal with the truth of who Lila really is, an issue that I won't go into here because this is already super long and I think that the issue of how her lies effect characters like Nino and Alya is pretty well understood.

There's also the Chloe thing. Chloe is very over the top, so replacing her with a character who is over the top in a different, more terrifying way would have made some sense. But Chloe's still here and she's more ridiculous than ever, so Lila matching that ridiculous just makes them an annoying duo that we all have to suffer through. Their team up was one of the most forced elements of seasons five. I just do not buy that Chloe would ever subject herself to being someone's minion. When it comes to that team up, the hand of the author is glaring.

Conclusion/Final Thoughts

Manipulative characters are fun. They make for fantastic villains and Lila could have been one of these fantastic villain, especially if Gabriel was played as more sympathetic. If there were lines that Gabriel wouldn't cross, then Lila getting the butterfly would be terrifying. As-is, I don't see how she's any worse than the dude who created Chat Blanc. Plus I'm not even sure why she needs the butterfly. She could already get anything she wanted with minimal effort because her lying powers are so OP. Like, why should I care about that twist? What has changed with the passing of the butterfly? The stakes have not been raised. If anything, they've been lowered.

Lila is just your generic evil villain who is evil for evil's sake. The heroes already hate her. Finding out that she's the big bad is not emotionally devastating. If anything, Marinette should be thrilled that she finally has an excuse to punch Lila.

It's possible that the writers will give Lila an interesting back story, but because she's been around for five seasons, I don't have any faith that they will. I mean, what was the point of introducing her all the way back in season one if you weren't going to use that to set her up in a satisfying way? I've seen people say to just wait and see and wait for what? They couldn't manage to pull off Gabriel's defeat or Chloe's defeat/redemption or Lila's first takedown in a way that was narratively satisfying. Why should I give them a chance to disappoint me with Lila's next take down? Three strikes and you're out!

@tallwriter as requested, there are my thoughts on Lila. As with every character in this show, I think she deserved better. She could have been great. She's one of the worst examples of squandered potential because everything about her was done wrong.

[let-us-cultivate-our-garden]

I swear... Belos deserved so much more....

Lowkey...I want Odalia Blight to end up with a much better husband/business partner and being a capitalist queen. (I see her getting with either Honsou/Perturabo)

Cause here's the damn thing... Alador gets too little flack for what he did... and just cause he stood up for Odalia... he really didn't do shit. Hell... It would be better for them to cut off BOTH of her parents.

TBH, it would be funny for Luis to try and "the friendship is Magic" shit on Perturabo (who would NOT listen to any of that nonsense) or Belos somehow getting somebody like Konrad Curze and uses him to hunt down Eda. Or Lorgar getting in, KILLING Belos and making thing WORSE.

I answered a similar ask about Odalia here.

Belos definitely deserved better writing because he's the main villain yet the show did a poor job of making the coven system actually oppressive and the coven scouts are just mooks that can quit their job with zero repercussions. This just makes Belos look bad as a dictator and a villain. Plus, there's his implied backstory and narrative foil with Luz that was stripped of all nuance and ends with "you're a good person because your motives are pure and not a power-hungry meanie."

As for Odalia, she didn't need to be deep but she didn't need to be so basic either. She's largely a caricature that doesn't really have anything meaningful to say about how capitalism supports oppressive regimes but the show isn't about that. So we have the abusive mom who tries to mold her daughter into her own image. Great concept, really lazy execution, especially since once Amity meets Luz, she doesn't really struggle with the expectations of her mother with the freedom her new crush provides.

As for Alador, he was implied to be on equal footing with Odalia and on the same page as her only to be retconned as a distant father who is "redeemed" once he stands up to his wife. Guess we're not going to address those years of emotional neglect. Also, Amity for some reason gets into engineering when she never really displayed an interest in that before. So instead of becoming like her mother, she turns into her dad. Great work, team.

(Also, I don't know who those other characters are you mentioned. I don't play video games).

[aphrmoosun]

What can we expect from the upcoming apes movies??

The success of the new Planet of the Apes movie is obvious, it far exceeds what was expected at the box office and the critics are very positive. The only thing missing is the official confirmation of the fifth installment of the saga but seeing the numbers it has done, we should trust that we are going to have apes for a while.

So we can create our own ideas of what we think will come in the future of the saga.

Noa's first film in the saga opens up endless possibilities, we can also follow the clues given during the Caesar triology. And it is obvious that the new saga is not only inspired by the original saga from the 70s but also presents stories and ideas that were made known to us in those films. It was Cornelius himself who told us the story about Caesar who at that time called Aldo. So it is unreasonable for us to expect that, as happened in the Caesar films, the main ideas that were implemented in the films of the 70s will continue.

In the films of the 2010s we were already introduced to the idea of astronauts and although I think that the second film would be too hasty to present them, I do think that they could appear at the end of this film or in a kind of post-credits for the third film of Noah. Travels in the time? World's End? Humans destroying the planet? These are arguments that I still see as feasible in the movies. If the casting team is looking for an actor to be human in the next film, it gives me to understand that he could be the villain of the second film. And not Mae as many theorize.

It is true that she was the first human that is introduced to us in the new story and that her ideals direct her to be an antagonist. I don't doubt that that could be the case, but that Mae is a gray character is clear from the final scene of the movie. At one point Mae is going to lose her way and will surely find herself against Noa, but she is a character who screams to redeem herself. Noa and Mae are going to work together in the future, as an ape and a human.

Noa and Mae are clearly the same. They follow the same path: Noa does not know what the Echos are until Raka tells him about them. And Mae? She probably hasn't met an ape before either. Ignorance is mostly what separates us from ideals. And they both take the same path of getting to know each other. But just because they understood that, doesn't mean that everyone does. We already saw Proximus Caesar in the first film, who represents an ideal contrary to what Caesar represented. And very likely in the next movie we will see the humans in the bunkers who can take two arguments. The war against the apes or the search for a cure or becoming immune to the ape virus.

That's why we can theorize about the second movie. It has already been made clear to us that Noa and Mae are the protagonists of this story, and so far we have seen a lot of Noa and very little of Mae. If we come to any conclusion with the end of the movie, it is that Noa wants to follow Caesar's ideal and the one that Raka taught him when he hands the necklace to Mae. Because Raka gives him the necklace so that Noa remembers in the worst moments what was important. And now it's time for Mae to understand it too. I know that the next movie will be difficult for her and that she will also have to make difficult decisions, and that is the reason why Noa gives her the necklace.

I would especially like to mention Tim Burton's film from the 2000s. It is the film with the worst reviews in the saga and yet I see a lot of similarity between that film and the new one from 2024. I don't think they dare as much as in that film or that have some creative freedom to do some of the things they did in that one. And I'm talking about the romance within the movie. In the 2024 movie it is not very important and presents us with relationships that go beyond that interest but the relationship between Ari and Leo in that movie has been highly criticized by the general public and that could affect any attempt at a human/ape relationship that they would like to experience. So I don't see intermediate points, either they give us a story of enemies to lovers between Noa and Mae or I don't think it is very important for the story, because if they end up putting Noa and Soona together (which I doubt) it will not be important in the plot.

I don't want to make it longer so at another time I will develop it because I think they have thrown the stone into the river of a possible relationship between Noa and Mae hoping to see the public's reaction and because I think it would be a good idea to continue developing it.

To summarize, I think that the next movie will introduce us to a human villain and it will be the first time that Noa has to face one.

Human culture and how they have been living until now is also important and the reason why Mae lives isolated and away from humans. If she is immune but can still infect humans, no one will want to get close to her unless she is immune too. How does Noa and Mae's story continue to develop? Noa's clan taking a more leading role and getting to know Anaya and Soona more deeply. etc

I'm excited to see how it continues.

[demeterdefence]

LMAOOO this had me peeved im truly sorry for the essay but this got me heated

there is this whole thing in media now where a victim of abuse - domestic, romantic, any kind - will inevitably get some kind of power over their abuser, and use it as their moment to "forgive" the abuser. it's meant to show how little power the abuser has now, and how healed the victim is

i am not against forgiveness in media and i'm not necessarily against this particular trope - i'll use avatar the last airbender as an example, and point out how zuko (who starts off as the antagonist in the story) works to redeem himself following his actions, and is forgiven once he's made actual amends. he then goes on to forgive his sister for her abuse, and not because she's doing better or she feels sorry for it - zuko realizes his sister is also a product of abuse, that she's been warped by the abuse, and she didn't have the support that zuko did. she's not going to get better; she will always be twisted and cruel. zuko forgives her because he sees her as a fellow victim, and he has no hate for her, only grief and pity.

arguably that's the same narrative rachel is trying to set up here with kronos, considering how the last few chapters have hammered on about how cruel and mean oranous was and how abusive he was, and how of COURSE kronos ended up so bad because his dad was so mean!

EXCEPT. THIS DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE WE HAVE NEVER SEEN ORANOUS AS A VILLAIN.

he's mentioned at best maybe three times, and certainly he's given shades of evil, but nothing that exclusively focuses on kronos. all we get is the generic bad guy vibes, but he's out of the story faster than we have time to process. if rachel wanted us to feel bad for kronos, having his so-called abuser just kind of wander in for a panel or two does not achieve that pity.

so this is really just hades (looking like a jesus figure seriously rachel how on the nose do you have to be) forgiving a being that, for the entire story, has been nothing but abusive and cruel. he swallowed two sons, he killed his wife, he abused hera, he took chomps out of his kids, and he put the world in danger. he tried to kill hades' wife. he kidnapped hades' future daughter. he has shown no remorse, no regret, nothing but cartoon villainy.

forgiving a character like this just ... hand waves all the harm done. like "sorry your dad was mean to you, here's a cookie." none of his other victims get the choice to forgive, and i'm willing to bet a fair few do not want to! you can argue this is hades' choice, but ultimately, it demonstrates rachel's utter inability to follow a narrative line to the end. she wanted to set up hades' as a powerful redeemer able to move past his abuse, but all she did was ditch kronos at the last second, unable to complete any storyline because she never thought it through.

[genericpuff]

The Mishandling of LO’s S3 Mi(n)season Hiatus - Part 3 2/2

ALRIGHT. THIS IS THE LAST PART. I MEAN IT THIS TIME.

I had completely forgotten how long the mi(n)season finale for S3 was, but I suppose it makes sense considering it was operating as the true cliffhanger before the 4 month break.

If you haven't read the first 3 parts of this episodic breakdown, please go check these ones out first:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3 1/2

Alright, let's get this show on the road!

CAUTION: THIS IS PART 2 OF THE THIRD PART OF A 3 + 1 PART SERIES IN WHICH I WILL BE SPOILING MUCH OF EPISODES 251-253. THIS EPISODE CONTAINS TOPICS SURROUNDING SEXUAL ASSAULT. THIS WILL BE A LONG POST. BRACE YOURSELF.

We've gotten delusional Leuce. We've gotten erasure of the SA. We've gotten a complete bastardization of the original myths that this story got its claim to fame on. The dread has set in, and all I want to do is get off Mr Bones' Wild Ride. But we have one more stretch of mind-numbing track to go, because the reveal of Persephone starting winter was not the end, oh no. The true cliffhanger of this episode - upon which the fans and critics alike have sat on for 4 months - proves that when we think Rachel has gotten crazy enough in this circus she calls a "retelling", she manages to prove that yes, she can make things even crazier, and no, you will not have a good time.

Ironically, despite that opening, I actually have a lot less to say about this last part of Episode 253 than I did about the first part. Obviously there's no feasible way to top "Persephone causes winter", but this episode does come rather close in its absurdity. Ultimately, if these essays have proven anything, it's just how much Rachel retcons things, to such an extent now that she seems to be retconning or outright forgetting information that she established just a handful of episodes prior. You'll see what I mean here as we go along in this.

As soon as it's hinted at that Persephone has started winter, we cut away to Apollo. Because, as per LO tradition, we can't spend longer than 10-15 panels on a single scene.

Already this seems like... really odd framing.

This is Apollo. A character who has been a villain since basically the beginning of the comic, when he sexually assaulted Persephone. This is not something that's up for debate. This is not something that can be refuted, as much as the comic may try to erase it or twist it into something else.

And yet, the vibe I get from this is, "Misled but good-deep-down character being taken advantage of by a sinister being." This isn't the type of framing we should be seeing around a character like Apollo.

I mentioned it ages ago in my post about the SA erasure that it really feels like Rachel is slyly trying to make Apollo empathetic, from giving us an entire episode in his perspective to adding extra panels into the books to making Persephone weirdly reminiscent of feelings for Apollo that she never had.

One thing I also touch on in that post is how Apollo is framed against Zeus. Zeus is also a villain character for much of the series, and even after he's "redeemed", the fanbase still considers him largely to be an antagonistic force. So to have Apollo be trying to take down Zeus comes across as very "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and I really don't like seeing that framing when it's regarding a rapist.

And this scene largely feels the same. It feels like Rachel's trying to sway the audience into believing Apollo is like Draco Malfoy - a misled boy who "didn't know any better" and was being manipulated by a greater evil. If you haven't guessed by now, that "greater evil" is Ouranos.

Why is it Ouranos? In my opinion (so take this with grains of salt) this is because they need to somehow "one up" Kronos and give Persephone and Hades a tangible force to fight against, to draw a clean line in the sand between "good" and "evil" so that we, the audience, will be forced to categorize Persephone and Hades as "good" and someone else as "evil".

But really, why Ouranos? We're told that he manipulated Gaia to use her powers in an attempt to create "hierarchy" (whatever the FUCK that means, I don't think Rachel really understands how societal hierarchies are created) but there's NOTHING to imply that he was tyrannical or "evil" in the same way that Kronos has been depicted. Rachel's basically submitting this whole plotline to "well it's in the prophecy" but there was NOTHING dictating that she had to try and write a "prophecy" storyline to begin with. So as a result, it feels very tacked on and it's hard to tell what the point is, it really just seems like Rachel watched too much Marvel one week and decided that Lore Olympus - a fantasy romance - needed a big bad.

And by extension it feels like Apollo is being used as a pawn in this dynamic. By making him subservient to an "evil" force, it means he can labelled as definitively "evil", and thus it gives Rachel a vehicle to have Apollo taken down - or even perhaps empathized with much like in the Draco Malfoy sense - without having to touch the SA plot that she set up and never resolved.

He was evil before, but he wasn't the kind of evil that Rachel could write around. Because she doesn't know how to write SA or give her female characters any sense of retribution or agency. We've seen that already with her robbing Demeter of winter and Persephone of her feelings regarding the SA. There was never going to be a chance in hell she was going to be able to write herself out of a plotline she's been procrastinating for 4+ years.

That said, this is just a vibe I get, so I'm not gonna speak on it much more. This is one of those "we're really not gonna know until the comic returns" situations.

Once again, Rachel's trying to make Apollo seem like a "master manipulator", but she's also trying to make him seem like he's the one being manipulated, but she's ALSO trying to write him as a big dumb idiot who literally can't grasp consent. Apollo has to be one of the most inconsistently written characters in the entire comic, and yes, that includes Persephone. Again, it just goes to show she hasn't been able to fully commit to the SA plotline because Apollo's motivations and intelligence levels change with each passing episode. Sometimes he's being nefarious and plotting to overthrow the King, other times he's literally asking a nymph if she'd be willing to cut her hair to look like Persephone. The comic can't choose and so we, the audience, can't tell why Apollo is even still here.

Again, this is SUCH bizarre framing. If we're to believe that Persephone has been "cursed" by no longer being able to create Spring, only Winter, then does that make Ouranos and Apollo the heroes here? Because Ouranos is right, if Persephone is causing winter, that's going to kill the mortals, which is the complete OPPOSITE of what she's trying to do. So what are we left with? A plotline where Apollo and Ouranos might actually have a point about how she rushed into a marriage with the King of the Underworld and sacrificed everything that gave her agency and power - both metaphorically and literally - in the process?

Again, this is why Rachel fundamentally misunderstands the original purpose of The Hymn to Demeter and how she's, by and large, made her retelling worse in an attempt to be "subversive". It puts the plot and character motivations in a place where it's hard to tell what the story is trying to say, I can understand if maybe Rachel's trying to write a conflict where Apollo uses this information to manipulate her, but it doesn't help that knowing EVERYTHING we know about the H x P relationship within the context of this comic, Ouranos has a point that Persephone's union with the King of the Dead is problematic. It might not be the same "problematic" that we're all thinking of, but it really just reinforces the criticisms of this relationship. Is the comic really asking us to say "fuck the human race, they're in love" ??? Because that's NOT what the point of the original myth was in the slightest and it's just a really weird place to put your audience in.

It's 4:45 AM right now as I'm typing this so my thoughts are a little scattered, but all this really feels like is an attempt on Rachel's part to create a new "big bad" for her to use as a distraction from the SA plot and to give Persephone a "flaw", but that "flaw" really only takes away the strength of another character.

Oh, and by the way? This whole "you need the fertility goddess" thing? THE COMIC HAS ALREADY TOLD US THIS WON'T WORK BECAUSE SHE HAS TO BE IN LOVE WITH APOLLO FOR HIM TO BE ABLE TO USE HER POWERS. SO RACHEL'S ALREADY WRITTEN HERSELF INTO A CORNER THAT SHE'LL EITHER HAVE TO SOLVE OR RETCON ENTIRELY. DO YOU SEE WHY THIS IS SO ABSURD???

This line is kind of jarring because we had the Kassandra prophecy at the beginning that talked about the herb, but the prophecy Ouranos is talking about is the one about the sons of kings overthrowing their fathers. I definitely forgot about that one for a hot second reading this, I didn't get how this sequence related to the poisonous plant thing because they're framed as completely separate prophecies. It's not like Kassandra said in her initial prophecy that this plant would be used to overthrow a King again, she just said that the plant still existed and Psyche figured it out on her own that Apollo was gonna use it on Zeus. IDK that's just something that bugged me (also again, why are they believing her prophecies when we literally just had it established an episode ago that no one believes her prophecies LMAO)

Because if it wasn't enough for LO to have one Evil Robot Jeff Bridges villain, it had to throw in another one for good measure. It's just a line of dads and grandpas going back centuries waiting for their turn in the ring with Persephone.

lmao I love this 'hint' at Apollo being the one to write the note from Hebe and leave the cupcake for Zeus. Like... duh? We already put that together as SOON as Psyche said gasp "Zeus!" and then it showed Zeus eating the cupcake while Psyche called him on the phone telling him Apollo was gonna try and harm him. This sequence of 'revealing what really happened' doesn't work here because we've already been told what happened.

Except we know he won't. There's no tension to this whatsoever.

That's Hebe by the way.

It's odd that Apollo is embracing this prophecy when he has a kid himself. He literally has a fully grown son in this comic. I guess Apollo forgot about that, just like Rachel.

And that's it. That's the midseason finale. Ouranos is the new twist villain and Apollo is... whatever the fuck Rachel plans on doing with him.

Now, this leads me to my original motivation to create this series of reviews. It spawned from a conversation we were having in the Discord, discussing what it must be like to be a free reader who hasn't paid for the FP episodes that are still behind a paywall. This is not standard for LO, it hasn't kept FP episodes behind paywalls in the past during long hiatuses like this. I can even prove this with screenshots from the Wayback Machine, during the last midseason hiatus:

(whoof, that rating has dropped. I know it doesn't seem like much but for a series with millions of readers, by law of averages it takes a LOT of poor ratings to pull that number down compared to a series that only has a few readers)

Point is, this is the first time Rachel/WT have done this. Now, I will make this perfectly clear, I don't think this was a decision that was purely on Rachel. WT controls much of the backend like paywall costs, release dates, etc. so I'm not gonna go pinning this on her.

However, I do think this is a completely bungled attempt at trying to get people to pay up. LO has been dropping in views steadily but surely since the midseason break for S2. It's not pulling in the peak numbers that it used to, while it does still pull in a lot more views and money than other series on the platform, it's nowhere near the juggernaut that it once was in terms of record-breaking numbers, and I think WT knows that. So this really comes across as a stunt to get readers to FP, assuming that people will HAVE to pay if they're left waiting for 4 months.

But here's the flaw in that logic - people are still going to have to wait 4 months anyways. Reading those 3 locked episodes, especially all at once, will still leave you in the same place as you were beforehand.

And it shows in the numbers that people aren't falling for the bait.

Again, 17k likes still isn't anything to sneeze at for a FP episode, but it's still just barely above the new average that LO has gained over the past two years. I remember a time when those like counts would be 30k+. And now, despite being on break 4 months with these episodes still locked behind a wall, it's barely able to scrap by its new average of roughly 14-15k, and that average is when episodes are actually updating.

Obviously like counts = / = viewcounts but when they fluctuate, we know that the views have to be as well by extension, at least to some extent, and that's still engagement that's dropped of in and of itself. And we can also see a rough look at how the views have dropped off through the comic's landing page. Now, it's hard to compare data because there was a time when WT actually didn't give follower/view counts on the landing page (this was also when the like count capped at 99k) but we can still see a downslide in growth very visibly in the view count, sub count, and most of all, the rating, which has been steadily dropping for years now.

August 2020:

May 2021:

November 2021:

March 2022 (don't get confused by the 995 million, this is where view count comes in):

September 2022:

March 2023:

Today (October 24th, 2023):

Again, there's no way to get a true clear picture of LO's stats beyond this surface level data, but it does show that LO is just not getting the rapid growth it used to. People are moving on from it. And while its view and sub count are steadily increasing (albeit slowly for a webtoon that gets as much marketing as it does) the average rating is going down. It's clear that the majority of LO's growth happened between 2018 and 2020, which would make sense as the series was still relatively new compared to how it's become old news today, and Webtoons experienced a boom in 2020 due to the COVID-19 lockdowns - a boom that they think still applies in the year 2023, judging by their attempts to import as many series onto the platform as possible and capitalize on an audience that just isn't there anymore.

All of this leads me to wonder - what's in it for free readers after all this? Because if you recall from where we started, the cliffhanger they started on was Hades - possessed by Kronos - attempting to strangle Persephone, a cliffhanger that was resolved within seconds for FastPass readers. If they don't FastPass after that, they'll be met with numerous reveals that don't even make sense for the plot as a whole (such as Leuce making up the text messages).

Again, I don't want to claim that this was a decision on Rachel's part, but it really seems like either she didn't plan this hiatus, or her inability to write naturally without the need for addictive-style formatting as a crutch made it so that the free readers would be given the worst midseason premiere ever.

And what are we, the FastPass readers, going to return to? There are still so many plot threads that have been left unresolved, multiple villains being setup, and as far as Webtoons and Rachel have revealed during NYCC, LO is supposed to end by the spring. That's 20-30 weeks TOPS, which isn't exactly a whole lot of wiggle room for a writer like Rachel who's chronically bad at pacing and getting to the point of the plots she's established.

I know there are so many readers right now anticipating the return of this comic, some of whom genuinely believe this comic is "better than ever" and others who are critical of it but hope that the comic will come back in a better state after the hiatus. But right now there's so much evidence to support the contrary - that LO is about to come back in as bad, if not worse, condition than it was in when it left.

And through all this, for a comic that's finally ending after 5 years, I have to ask - where is the hype? Why are Webtoons and Rachel keeping the finale of this comic behind closed doors? Where's the promotional art, the hinting at what's to come, the attempts to generate any semblance of excitement for the readers who are still left after clinging onto this ride for 5 years? Why were the fans themselves barred out of their own communities during the majority of the hiatus?

And that just leads me to an even more discouraging thought. This is not meant to accuse Rachel or make assumptions. It's simply a thought that I had while thinking about what the series could possibly pull upon its return, so please, take this with MOUNTAINS of salt. It's one thing I hadn't considered with the knowledge that LO will be returning with 3 episodes still behind a paywall, a 'buffer' in and of itself for Rachel to work off of.

Rachel only technically needs one episode ready for the release. Not three as she normally would if the episodes had been unlocked like in previous hiatuses. That's not including whatever buffer episodes she would need beyond the upload schedule, but she's proven to be chronically bad at maintaining a buffer as well since day one.

We haven't seen any promotional art. No hinting. No hyping beyond what's been seen for her "Rachel Smythe Presents" series.

With all that in mind, I have one question to leave this on:

Has Rachel even started working on Episode 254 yet?