#anti-kristanna

[katian13]

Дженнифер Ли: [ смеется ] Ханс стал злодеем с той минуты, как столкнул ее лошадью, как мне кажется. Здесь имелось в виду вовсе не то, что кажется. Всё дело в том, что случившееся с ними с самого начала можно было списать на обман, чем Ганс и руководствовался, рассказывая свой «план», чтобы Анна не углядела ложь в его словах. Джен Ли, собственно, делает то же самое, скрывая правду во лжи, отчего многим кажется, будто персонаж Ганса ею ненавидим. Особенно учитывая то, что в первоначальных сценариях Ганс не приобретал роль злодея совсем, хотя Джен Ли изначально руководила всем этим процессом. Как я уже говорила, пал выбор не на то, кто будет злодеем, а кто окажется под влиянием троллей. Слабыми доказательством к этому я считаю её же слова о том, что «Ганс – социопат» и «Ганс – зеркало», так как это она послужила той, из-за кого Ганса действительно считают зеркалом. Дело в том, что Джен Ли давит на «зеркала», потому что это – эстетика сказки «Снежная Королева», что без зеркал это уже не та история. Но вообще-то, мальчик тоже стал социопатом, когда осколок зеркала попал ему в глаза, исказив его точку ��рения. Прямо как Ганс, у которого внезапно мечта «найти своё место и быть собой» меняется на «власть и трон». Поначалу было решено, что раз это – та же история, но другая интерпретация, то под влиянием троллей будет сама королева, но это было слишком быстро, и потому вплели проблемы отцов и детей, психологические проблемы, и пассивных антагонистов (тролли действуют почти незаметно и им не нужно много экранного времени) – и получилось то, что получилось. И зеркалить кого-то – не признак социопата, а некий защитный рефлекс после морального насилия, многие жертвы насилия это делают, практически и не замечая за собой.

[hitchell-mope]

Stranger things frozen au

Just a heads up before I start. I just want to say. Yes I headcanon Elsa as asexual. And I think Jane is straight. This is just who I think matches up with the personalities and story importance. Anyone taking this as “evidence” that I don’t ship mileven anymore is going to get blocked. Does everybody understand that? Good. Then let’s begin.

Jane. Elsa

Max. Anna

Lucas. Kristoff

Dustin. Olaf

Troy. Hans

Carver. Weselton

[greatqueenanna]

Hi 🍁 so you've listened the complete Forces of Nature series? I'm surprised that you said it's the worst installment into the franchise. It's because Snow Sisters and Kristanna were in the background or the solution of the story was unsatisfying? The theme of trust and Otherness of Arendelle sounded interesting. And how do you think, what of these elements/motifs can be transported in F3? I don't mind conspiracies :}

Yes - I have access to it for a short time on Wonderly+, where it was released early before October 11th.

Ok, I have to admit, saying it's the worst installment was probably overexaggerated on my part. It is fun for what it is, and I'm sure many fans of all ages will find things to love about it. And as I said, everyone should give the podcast a chance regardless of my own opinions.

However, I think I was just taken aback by how much Disa and Wolfgang were forced into the narrative when we have plenty of established characters (Anna, Elsa, Kristoff, Olaf, Mattias, Ryder, Honeymaren, and Yelena) that could've had an opportunity to have some fun side content here that was instead given to these two new characters. I get it - they don't want to add new things or lore to the characters because it's a bit restrictive. However, you can easily take what is already established and build a nice, satisfying side story. Forest of Shadows was able to get away with adding depth to Anna and Elsa that didn't interfere with their developments in Frozen or F2. Why can't we do this here?

Example - why couldn't Ryder have Wolfgang's role instead? Imagine Ryder trying to explore and understand Arendelle, building a relationship with Kristoff and Mattias, while having solo episodes writing to Yelena about his experiences. Or, imagine Honeymaren grows an interest in Automatons, but then she and Elsa clash a bit about experimenting too much with them (adding depth to their relationship). Or how about Anna encountering other royals who feel strongly about Arendelle's magical allegiances, leading to Anna having to build the confidence to stand by her sister and the Northuldra. More about Kristoff learning to be a leader. Or maybe Olaf actually being the character to write an opera over Wolfgang. There is so much content you could explore with the characters we already have that introducing new ones just seems like a huge waste.

And how do you think, what of these elements/motifs can be transported in F3? I don't mind conspiracies :}

Well, either the elements introduced were just unique to Forces of Nature and the writers just didn't flesh them out well, or it's possible that they are not explored in depth because they are hints to what we could expect in F3.

Anna faces people who question Arendelle's allegiance to magic, testing her confidence as Queen and the strength of her relationship with Elsa and the Northuldra. Elsa grows a fear of trusting new people, as the fear of magic can cause a lot of damage (both Elsa and the Nprthuldra know this too well). Kristoff learns the skills necessary to become a leader himself since he is one day going to rule beside Anna. Trust seems to be a big deal in this podcast, and these elements (whether it is the trust of oneself or others) and if it continues into F3, then we're basically looking at -

F1 - Fear vs. Love

F2 - Fear vs. Change

F3 - Fear vs. Trust

But again, it's just a crazy theory. Cough cough cough also, trust being a thing can lead to Hans showing up again as an anti-hero or villain that the heroes either need to learn to trust or he takes advantage of the trust of others cough cough cough. Wow. What a crazy cough. I need to get that checked out.

[galaxygolfergirl]

[glittering-snowfall]

Got this anon on my other blog last night after going to bed lmao:

For context, I made a post last night commenting on the fact that there are toxic Kristanna shippers out there and they aren't as likely to get called out by the larger fandom because they ship the Pure-as-Driven Snow Ship, whereas any time an Elsanna shipper does something bad, everyone in the ship is condemned for it. Specifically, it was about an anti-Elsa KA shipper who claimed once that Elsa, IN CANON, reflects incestuous violence... and I was like, "...If you hate Elsa so much that you're saying in the canon of the Disney movies, she reflects incestuous violence, you are delusional."

I replied with the "The point? You missed it" meme and didn't outright say, "Yes, I do, what of it?" on my other blog because I don't want to lose followers... but GAH, there's a petty spiteful part of me that wishes I could draw and respond with a picture of the sisters kissing and flipping the anon off. Of course, I'm too good a person to ever do that. I've just spent so long trying to be the Decent and Good Person and it doesn't matter to certain people and that brings out the spite.

And my point stands. If you're a KA shipper and hate Elsa so much that you're saying in the canon of the Disney movies, she reflects incestuous violence, you are delusional.

[true--north]

What I probably don't want to see in Kristanna Wedding is the preparations a whole movie long, in the Polar Nights style. Where there will be a fuss and trouble about outfits, places at the table, decorations, Anna will be nervous about every tiny detail, Kristoff will not know what to say and how to act around her, and everything will end with the "I don't need a perfect celebration, you're perfect" or something surely healthy anti-perfectionist like that. What if let everything be good and smooth? Anna and Kristoff were in need of the healing hugs, not in the anxiety-ing ones 😗

[the-blue-fairie]

Still can't get over that one anti-Elsa Kristanna shipper who snapped at me for defending Elsa that one time and had posts on their blog that were like:

Like, people call the Elsanna shippers in the fandom delusional, but then turn a blind eye to someone out there who's as anti-Elsanna as one can get and is... like this.

Look, if you're a Kristanna shipper who hates Elsa so much that you look at the canon of the movies and think Elsa in any way reflects incestuous violence... you're fucking delusional, I don't know what to tell you.

Note: this isn't me attacking all KA shippers. This is obviously me commenting on a very toxic subset who are so poisoned by their frustration towards Elsa. This should be obvious, but people have misunderstood these things before.

But seriously, there ARE Kristanna shippers out there who are toxic and we don't talk about that enough.

[true--north]

I absolutely agree with this, Elsa absolutely has the right to be "selfish" like this. But I think a heir is not a problem for the "Two Queens" ending, since Anna, married to Kristoff highly likely would have had a baby. I think the "The Two Queens" ending is an anti-climatic thing; such a big transformative adventure – and no big resolution? To return home as if nothing has happened? Anna deserved more than to be lifted to Elsa's level, she deserved the whole throne. (Just like Elsa deserved to be a mystical queen of Nature.)

As for Anna and Kristoff's marriage, we'll see. Elsa's abdication definitely shook the ground for Kristanna. This can be a problem, but it's not Elsa's fault. The root lies in Kristoff and his supposed hate for Arendelle and social hierarchy. It is one thing to marry a princess who does not have great responsibilities, another thing is to marry a queen he must be a match for. Iduna did it, so Kristoff has hope.

Hi fellow Frozen fans! I’m here to talk about an opinion from the Frozen fandom that has been bothering me since Frozen 2 came out. I’ve heard several people claim that Elsa was selfish for abdicating the throne to Anna to become the Fifth Spirit. Some people even seem to imply that Elsa doing so is ruining Anna and Kristoff’s lives and their plans for the future. I don’t know where all of this is coming from, but based on varying complaints from the fandom, I have a few ideas.

I think, that some people are just upset because they would rather Elsa remain the prim and proper Queen of Arendelle and Anna, the carefree, bubbly princess. The people who sport this idea annoy, and even anger me to some extent. Anna and Elsa are so, so much more than that. Do you all just want them to remain frozen in time? You have no desire for them to grow as people? If you truly love and appreciate the sisters as characters, then you would WANT them to grow, and reach their full potential.

Why shouldn’t Anna get a chance to lead her people? Why shouldn’t Elsa, a woman who was locked away in her room for thirteen years, get a chance to experience true, complete freedom? Why should she be denied the chance to be happy? To live a happy and fulfilling life?

Is it because she’s the first born and you feel she needs to live out the rest of her days fulfilling that obligation? There were undoubtably plenty of first born Kings and Queens who assumed the throne yet had do desire for such a burden. Nobody should have to be resigned to such a fate. Especially such a unique person like Elsa.

Another reason that I have heard mentioned, is that some people prefer the “Two Queens“ ending. For the people who believe that Elsa and Anna should have ended up ruling Arendelle together, as equals, let me start by saying that that’s not how monarchies work. A monarch usually refers to a single person. A person of royal blood and related to the Royal family.

Yes, a monarch usually does wed another person, but the person who marries an heir apparent only shares their rank and title. They do not have any sovereign powers over the kingdom. They do not rule. Any political power they have is limited to what the monarch allows them to have.

So, the “Two Queens” idea would not work not only because the power of the monarch can only belong to one person, but Anna is Elsa’s sister. Yes, there WAS insest in real life monarchies, but as two females, an heir would never be able to be produced. This was the main reason why monarchs were, often forced, to marry. To produce an heir. The only reason Anna was able to ascend was because Elsa abdicated without a child of her own. They could never have ruled Arendelle together.

I know that part of the reason that this idea appealed to people is because it fit in with the “two sisters“ theme of Frozen. Many people believe that Elsa leaving Arendelle goes against that theme. Or that Elsa leaving Arendelle won’t strengthen their bond. I understand where people are coming from, but again, I disagree.

Elsa is 24 years old. She’s an adult. She’s around my age, and I have many friends who have moved out of their homes. That doesn’t mean that the bonds they have with their parents and siblings deteriorate or that they don’t love them anymore. It just mean that they’re independent. Same with Elsa. It’s only natural that the older sister is the first to move out of the house. She’ll always lover her family and can visit them at any time she likes.

As I mentioned above, Elsa is not ruining Anna and Kristoff’s marriage and lives in the future. She isn’t shoving off uneeded responsibility onto Anna. While Anna may not have been groomed to be Queen growing up the same way that Elsa was, she probably was made aware that as the second born daughter of the King and Queen, that if anything happened to Elsa, Arendelle would look to her. It’s not like Anna is coming into this with zero understanding of what’s expected of her.

I don’t know how many of you read any of the artick of interviews with Jennifer Lee and Chris Buck when Frozen 2 came out, but I did. They stated that the entire point of the movie was for “Anna to become Queen and Elsa to be free.” So the outcome that you’re complaining about was always the intention. Sorry.

Chris and Jen said that Anna should become Queen because of her deep love for her people and that Elsa doesn’t deserve to be trapped in a box. I couldn’t agree more. Anna loves her people and wants to help and do things for them. That’s what being a Queen is all about. That’s why Anna would want and do well in the position. She would be helping her people.

Elsa is a unique person with a unique gift. Even though her powers had been accepted by the people of Arendelle and she was a beloved Queen, she was still somewhat restrained for the sake of fitting in. Elsa could have never embraced her powers and all that she is if she had remained in Arendelle as its Queen.

Elsa abdicated the throne because she had a higher calling. As guardian of the Enchanted Forest, a place where the magic of nature is respected, Elsa can be herself and use her powers to the fullest extent to protect the forest and all its inhabitants.

In conclusion, By abdicating the throne to become the fifth spirit and leaving Anna to become Queen, both Elsa and Anna get the chance to grow into their best selves. This is about what is best for both of them and their happiness. Not about your fantasy preference for their future.

[brlngelsahome]

This is the Elsa I know and love

This is a random hippie forest lady who walks around barefoot with a lizard and a bunch of rocks. 

Not our Queen. 

[hiccanna-tidbits]

Frozen literally gave me a whole-ass love triangle and I just went “mmmmmm no thank you” and instead proceeded to ship Anna with an awkward, snarky dragon-riding dude from a completely separate studio whom she will most definitely never meet.

Do I regret this decision? I absolutely do not.

[katian13]

Ещё вопросы о второй части. Зачем вводить смуглых кочевников, что являются родственниками Анны и Эльзы, но при этом, делая их кожу более бледной (Анна) и белой (Эльза)? То есть, вместо того, чтобы подчеркнуть, что сёстры похожи на Нортулдру, они делают их обеих максимально белыми (про саму Идуну молчу).

Долго не могла понять, что странного и реально плохого для сюжета, что новых персонажей ввели, но не раскрыли. Но всё же, дошло. Если уж они племя, в котором жила их мать, то не нужно ли сказать о других родственниках девушек? Может, детишки, что бегают там, их племянники или внуки? Может, у них есть братья или сёстры, может, дядя или тётя? Но об этом ни слова. Как и о том, что Идуна была сиротой, раз уж знакомство девочек было таким. Из-за чего Нортулдра получились безликими, добрыми, но безликими. Анна узнала Маттиаса, но даже она не спросила, есть ли в племени их биологические родственники. Это, между прочим, послужило бы ещё одним мотивом к действиям у сестёр.

И вопрос о том, что никакой сюжет не поступает так, как обошлись здесь. В ситуации, когда ищут своё место, действуют два пути, обычно. Первый "надо". Персонаж не хочет эту работу, но по какой-либо причине это надо, и спустя какое-то время персонаж понимает, что это ему понравилось. Ни у Эльзы, ни у Анны этого не было. Второй путь - когда за весь хронометраж заметно, но промежуточно, что персонаж (персонажи) не на своём месте, при этом, одновременно этот же персонаж проявляет черты совсем другой работы (часто подавляя из-за низкого заработка, недружелюбных коллег и других причин), и встаёт на своё место, когда и сам понимает, что он сам хочет быть на этом месте. Что опять же, мимо. Эльза в первой части "Вещи вечные" показывает полную вовлечённость в жизнь королевства, счастлива быть с Анной. Но вдруг она отдаёт ей свой пост и живёт в лесу. Анна за весь фильм не показала желания быть королевой. За бугром кто-то из студентов сценарного мастерства написал, что если б он сдал такой сценарий сиквела своему преподу, тот бы не принял работу и заставил бы переделать. Потому что, покажи нам вторую часть, а уже после первую (как "Звёздные войны), у публики вообще не возникло бы вопросов, и было бы в разы меньше тех, кому полюбился Ганс. Сценарий сиквела получился донельзя раздробленным, словно из того, что должно было быть короткометражкой, взяли и слепили полный метр, в котором оспариваются все посылы первой части. Словно это черновой вариант.

[hereisisa]

Posted for #RAOKday on the italian official fb:

RAOKday: Random Acts of Kindness Day

It says: “LOVE is putting someone else’s needs before yours”.

(just what Kristoff does in F2 LOL)

[beingpassionateabout]

ok, got it about the Gale lighting up the trees! I also liked how Anna and Elsa were entwined by arms, they kinda looked like a married couple!

right?? :D

and with the blessings from Rydoff and Honeymaren who’s probably got someone already and ppl are shipping her with Elsa unaware of this fact. 

also, Yelana who somehow knows that Elsa was given as a gift to Iduna virgin mary style and that it makes her unrelated to Anna so she tells the couple and they’re finally free from the judging eyes of society to consumate their so antecipated wedding. 

see? better writing than F2.

[hereis-isa]

so.. any thoughts about Honeymaren?

Well….I’m not a fan.

1) it’s not real rep. It’s nothing. and it’s such a little thing (2 lines? 3?) that it makes Elsa look stupid for even entertaining the idea to live in the forest after she asked. Not that she stayed cause she asked…but you know what I mean.

2) I don’t like every “ship” that is not elsanna. And even if they’d give Elsa a real girlfriend with a decent screentime that we should consider “real rep”…I will still NOT like it cause my ship is another one.

3) I think it’s actually damaging, to be happy for such a little thing. It makes TPTB believe we’re happy with scraps. But since I’m not a fan….I don’t really care about this cause, to each their own!

4) Again, I ship something else. Kristanna or honey-elsa…I don’t even know how it’s called, they’re all the same to me.

[glittering-snowfall]

there’s a special place in hell for the mods of w*ltd*sn*yc*nf**sions for tagging hateful anti-Elsanna confessions, so that they showed up in the ship’s tag.

And you Elsanna fans used to tag your anti-Kristanna posts in the main frozen tag. The level of your surprise that people don't like incest is always so new. Maybe it's time to come to terms with this fact?

I actually ship Kristanna, anon. And I have defended Kristanna shippers from overly intense Elsanna shippers, as well. I have two blogs, one where I post my Elsanna content and one where I post my Kristanna content and general Disney content - partly for my own sake because I know I'd be blocked by KA fans/general Disney fans if I put everything on one blog; but also because I am trying to be respectful of those KA fans/general Disney fans. If they don't want to see EA content, I don't want to force them to. So, I have gone out of my way over and over again to be considerate and compassionate. Maybe it's time for you to come to terms with the fact you are painting all Elsanna shippers with broad strokes because of your hatred of the ship.

Moreover, anon, I've been stalked by a Kristanna shipper on this site who wanted to turn my friends against me by "exposing" me as a "gross Elsanna shipper." This backfired on the stalker because my other KA shipping acquaintances and friends rejected the extremity of their toxicity. I have also been met with passive-aggression and manipulation from particular Kristanna shippers for daring to point out when they can be toxic (for example, some have an irrational dislike of the character of Elsa) - even though, as I have said before, I have also defended Kristanna shippers as well.

People contain multitudes, anon. And also! Maybe, just maybe, hate of any ship which leads to harassment is wrong.

[brlngelsahome]

The ending of Frozen 2 really confused me, and I saw it like 5 seperate time in theaters :0 

I had to come onto here and learn that Elsa apparently lives in Ahtohallan??? A literal giant, abandoned cave of ice?

I guess Elsa is too busy playing with her imaginary friends in Ahtohallan to pay attention to Anna ?