#anti shippers are normal please and thank you

[cotaco-witch-blog]

There is a pro shit weirdo assigned to be in my group for a project in one of my grad school classes. I could scream. I know she's a pro shit because she writes on Ao3 during class. I managed to snag her user and it is something else! And not in a good way.

At this point, Imma just smile and nod. I don't have the energy to confront her, but I literally would not care if she died in a car crash.

[nekropsii]

Hello! First of all, love your work. Wonderful takes and analysis on the alpha trolls, and also i’m a big fan of sovstuck - both the text and the awesome cool art. I love that every character gets introduced with their own unique artstyle, each oozing with character :)

I wanted to ask, - and please believe that i’m asking in good faith, - about your proship dni. I’ve been seeing discourse about ‘pro/anti ship’ for ages now, but i cannot for the life of me understand what the hell either side stands for. First i hear it’s about abusive or problematic (pedo/incest) ships in general, then it’s about the difference of portrayal/endorsement of those things, then it’s something else entirely and i can never fucking understand what the hell the issue is and why it is so heated.

By no means i’m asking you to speak for the whole discourse or even for the entire ‘side’ of it - if there’s one thing i got, it’s that no one can agree on their definition of what ‘their side’ stands for. But i would like to know what meaning you put into the terms, and what kind of ‘proship’ you would like to not interact with you; i trust that you know what you believe in and are able to put it to words in a way that makes sense and doesn’t contradict itself or common sense, as i sometimes see :”)

I.. understand that since the topic is so divisive, you may get a ton of bullshit in your ask box and notes, should you choose to answer this, both from people who disagree and those who choose to misinterpret what you say. So feel free to ignore this ask if you don’t want to deal with that. Still, i do hope i can someday gain some clarity on this topic haha.

Best wishes!! thanks for what you do :)

Hello! Thank you so much, the compliments mean a lot! They really keep me going, lol!!

First of all, congratulations on formulating the most normal ask adjacent to this topic. Since it's so god damn touchy, people have a tendency to start throwing rocks no matter what "side" they're on, and no matter if they know what the hell they're talking about or not. Frankly, some of the ruckus surrounding this circus act is embarrassing. On both ends. Second of all, while this isn't something I'm an expert in, I do know more than I'd like, so I'd be happy to give my perspective, even if it's potentially a bit limited/flawed.

Thirdly, I'm putting this under a cut, for anyone who doesn't want to read all that.

Content Warning: Discussions of Shipping Discourse, Sexual Assault, Abuse, Grooming, Incest, and Pedophilia.

Let me start this by defining what the Relevant Terms mean:

Shipping: The act of pairing two or more Characters together. Though the term is derived from "Relationship", and therefore is at its core - technically, theoretically - a Neutral Term, it - conversationally, colloquially - carries extremely heavy Romantic Connotations, with a strong implication that said Romance is found to be appealing - typically in the sense of being either Cute, or Sexy. Defining this is not me trying to condescend you - One of the key questions in this discourse is what it means to "ship" something, and whether or not the term implies the shipper is condoning the material inherent to the ship.

ProShip: Essentially means "All For All Shipping". It's the personal, discourse-based identity label equivalent to the phrase "Ship And Let Ship". There's a common misconception floating around that the "Pro" in "ProShip" stands for "Problematic", rather than simply being the positive antonym to the prefix "Anti". While I find this to be a failure of basic deductive reasoning, I can also understand how the conclusion was reached - Proshippers are most commonly associated with "Problematic Content"/"Problematic Ships", and they do tend to take pride in being "Problematic" themselves. Either way, the word "Problematic" is highly associated with them and often reclaimed by them. They also call themselves "Anti-Antis" (horribly stupid label, by the way), and "ComShip(pers)", with the "Com" being short for "Complex". To my knowledge, ComShip is a sect specifically trying to get away from the baggage that the term "ProShip" holds, and away from the very real predator problem within the ProShip Community. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

AntiShip: Essentially means "Against Certain Forms of Shipping". It actually used to be a term for people who were against specific individual ships, rather than a blanket discourse label - for example, rather than someone identifying as just an "Antishipper", they would typically label themselves as "Anti-VrisMeen", or a "VrisMeen-Anti", or whatever their focus was. An important thing to note is that Antis trend Young, and they trend Traumatized. They are typically Teenagers, and their stances are largely informed by their discomfort watching Adults Sexualize Characters who share their age or younger, and discomfort watching people Sexualize some kind of Trauma they've been through - and considering their general ages, it's not unlikely that that Trauma is either Fresh or Ongoing. This is not always the case, but it's such a large amount of the AntiShip crowd, and it's acknowledged so little, that it's worth mentioning. It's a very important piece of context to me.

The general Belief Systems of both sides, as they currently stand, are as follows:

ProShip: ==> Never Harass Anyone Over Their Ships: This is the bones of their beliefs, and where everything started. Essentially, it's rude and unnecessary to send people Harassment over a Ship they enjoy, because not only could you be doing something better with your time, but also it can be pretty difficult to tell the "How/What/Why" of someone's interest in such material. ==> All Forms of Shipping Should Be Allowed, No Matter The Content: This is the meat of their beliefs, and also where the arguing starts. It's exactly what it says on the tin - Anything Goes, including Rape, Abuse, Incest, and Pedophilia. This is why the label is so touchy - many people are extremely uncomfortable with the idea of Fandom going back to its habit of uncritically normalizing + romanticizing Rape, Abuse, Incest, and Pedophilia. Part of this is due to the fact that this uncritical normalization has led to genuine, tangible harm on people in Fandom Spaces, particularly Minors. ==> Being Problematic Is Based: The skin of their beliefs. Many people wrap up Shipping Discourse in terms that make it sound like engaging in it is Political Praxis, somehow. While your stance on Shipping Discourse can certainly be telling of your Political Beliefs, in the way that your stance on literally anything can be telling of that, calling Shipping Discourse on its own some kind of Radical Political Stance is... Deeply silly, and also keeps leading to people saying "Being into Incest/Pedophilia is Queer Nature", like, unironically. I keep seeing this happen. This part of it tends to be very... Spite-driven. ==> Fiction Is Not Reality: Basically their catchphrase - nothing that happens in fiction is real, and therefore has no tangible effect on reality.

AntiShip: ==> Please Tag Your Content Appropriately And Keep It Out Of The Reach Of Minors: The bones of their beliefs. Self Explanatory, typically followed up with "and if you can't do that, don't post/make it at all". To further illustrate this, I'd like to spark any reader's memory of the times where you couldn't Google search "Fluttershy" without being lambasted with hardcore porn. No additions of "R34", or "NSFW", just "Fluttershy". There was no SFW Filters. You just had to fucking fight for your life. Being a child on the Internet is and was extremely rough. There wasn't any Official Tag Filtering on Tumblr until... I think 2017. It was dark. ==> Abuse/Rape/Incest/Pedophilia Should Not Be Considered "Shipping": The meat of their beliefs. Essentially, these are extremely heavy, delicate topics meant to be treated with respect and tact, or not handled at all. This is not possible in Shipping Content. At least, not as we currently understand it, and will likely remain understanding in that way for years to come. They argue that Fanfiction is not ever going to be on par with Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita. Which is true. They also argue that it's impossible for most Fanfictions to treat these sensitive subjects with any respect, which is... Dubious, but also fair, considering the Sturgeon's Law of it all. ==> Ewwwww...: The skin of their beliefs. Disgust. It's a whole lot of disgust. Again, worth reiterating that the bulk of AntiShippers are quite Young and/or Traumatized, and the content they are reacting to tends to be Extreme, so a gut response of disgust is... Honestly, healthy. No 15 Year Old should be stumbling upon art of a child getting frisky with their dad and going "hell yeah, brother!". Though I wish they'd handle their disgust with more tact, I find that it's just... A fair response, given their age, what their backstory tends to be, and what content they tend to be reacting to is. ==> Fiction Affects Reality: Not necessarily their catchphrase, but definitely their counterpoint to the catchphrase of ProShippers. They do not say Fiction is real, just that it does literally have a tangible effect on reality, and point to cases where this is observable. The impact Jaws had on real life sharks is a favorite, as is The Birth of a Nation, and The Turner Diaries. And, of course, the ways that the works put out by ProShippers has tangibly affected the lives of others, especially children.

It is worth noting, I am neither of these things. I do not identify as a ProShipper, nor do I identify as an AntiShipper. I identify as a Horror Writer. I have "DNI: ProShip" in my bio because their stances make me the most uncomfortable, and I have been victimized personally by members of their crowd and the result of their beliefs.

I was Groomed by an Adult ProShipper when I was 14 Years Old. She used her ideologies as a ProShipper to excuse herself and the (sexual) content she forced me to Roleplay with her, and used it to pressure me into writing more and more extreme content. I did not want to do it even at the time - it made me uncomfortable - but she made the idea of saying "No" to her... Quite scary, and like I was the one in the wrong for being uncomfortable with it. After all, Fiction Isn't Reality, right? I am not the only person I know with this experiences. I have met and spoken to countless - and I mean countless - individuals who have had similar experiences with that crowd. The sheer distrust kids and teens tend to have towards them is learned through that crowd's propensity towards grooming them. Because the celebration and normalization of that content breeds comfortability with "the real deal", and comfortability with harboring predators.

I'm sure some ProShippers have noble intentions, and don't realize what the controversy is about. I'm sure some of them are deeply out of the loop, and still think it only means "Being Anti-Harassment". But I do not care enough to give people the chance, just... For the sake of my own sanity. You understand, I'm sure. I do not think that this rift between worlds is ever going to get closed, or that these sides are going to experience amicability, because the question is nuanced and about morality itself, and one side is full of defensive, traumatized teenagers trying to keep themselves and their friends safe from what they are perceiving as legitimate threats to their safety, and the other side is full of people who just wanna jerk it to weird porn.

I'm not personally comfortable with, like, any self-identified ProShipper being near me, just due to my own experiences. Some might try to identify me as one against my will, due to the fact that I am Anti-Harassment and a Horror Writer unafraid to touch upon every single one of the aforementioned sensitive topics, but... I am simply not one, because I don't identify that way, I don't believe in their beliefs, and they creep me out, lol.

My beliefs are that people should be able to write about whatever they want, as long as they handle things with the appropriate amount of care, and as long as they keep things tagged appropriately. I think that harassing people for shipping Stridercest in fucking 2024 is lame because you could be doing literally anything else with your time, and I think shipping Stridercest in fucking 2024 is lame because you could be doing anything else with your time. Like, come on, man, it's not even interesting. They're not even doing anything interesting with it. Where are the themes? There are no themes. It's just brothers mackin' on each other whitely. Come on.

No topic should be off limits, but you should at least give it the care and respect it deserves, and you should make it interesting. Nothing is interesting on its own. Rape is not interesting on its own. Incest is not interesting on its own. Abuse is not interesting on its own. Pedophilia is not interesting on its own. Taboo subjects are not interesting on their own. They're mundane evils that happen literally every day to regular people. In writing, they need to be paired with themes, and, hopefully, with good writing. People who have been through these things deserve not only to have their trauma represented, but handled with care, and also for it to be interesting to read. They deserve to have options. They deserve to have good literature to chew on, to help them digest and cope with their own trauma. It's difficult to do that when you feel invisible to everything but the camera lens of a Fetish Pornographer, and I know many people who are suffering with the fact that their traumas seem to only ever be represented or referenced in shitty pornography.

Sure, some people cope with their own trauma by sexualizing it. I know that's the case for some ProShippers, and their reason for being within that group. But it's certainly not everyone's method of coping, and it shouldn't be the only option... Which is why I'm advocating for safe, non-fetishized exploration of extreme themes.

I think the reason why the discourse is so unclear is because "ProShip" and "AntiShip" aren't very tangible, definite belief systems, and also the talking points are evolving and maturing over time. A few years ago, the beliefs of "Antis" definitely broadly leaned more heavily towards total rejection of those themes being present in any fiction, but their arguments seem to have matured lately into "the problem is the nature of the depiction, not the presence of depiction itself".

That's all I can think of saying right now that wouldn't just be me walking in circles. And don't worry, I can definitely take the hit. I'm not sure what here could be very arguable other than semantics, or maybe a history lesson or two.

Thank you for the ask! Hope this helps!

[feyrescourt]

This is a long and rambly discussion post for elriel nation btw so strap in

I want to preface this by kindly asking the elriel hive to not use any tags of #those ships if reblogged. I want to keep this in the elriel echo chamber. Please and thank u!

A huge part of fandom culture is to ship canonically compliant characters and crack ships. Everyone’s got them, and it’s totally normal, and it’s usually fun to engage with.

The majority of the time I have no issue with this (I am a wolfstar shipper and even though there is canonical evidence of them in the original HP books, they’re widely accepted online and balked at IRL usually due to homophobia and #that nasty, nasty woman’s bigotry), but over the last few years a certain group of crack shippers have taken it upon themselves to fly a little too close to the sun, and want to make it our (elriels) problem. I am talking about the Glees.

It’s late and this just popped into my head so I want to rant about it.

My friend who got me into ACOTAR gave me a breakdown of the ships (bc I read ToG first and went in blind. I became a doraelin shipper very early on and remained one halfway through QoS, it was a whole thing when I realized they were not end game lol), bc I asked her to after my ToG experience. She told me all the characters names and then told me about feysand and nessian endgames but didn’t mention az or elain’s situation. I asked her about it and she told me that she didn’t want to mention much about Az because “by the end of the series azriel has two options for how his story could go, elain or another way”. She shared some anti elain sentiment with me because she’s “boring and doesn’t do anything”. That went in one ear and out the other with me tbh.

When I started acowar, and feyre returned to the night court, I saw how elain and azriel were interacting and I concluded that mor was the second LI of az bc of acomaf. I was not apart of the fandom online at this point, so I was genuinely in the dark about everything around these two. I was just reading and talking to my friend about what I read. I also want to add that I still liked L*cien at this point in the series (it changed in acofas, I became apathetic towards him rather quickly when I finished reading that whiny ass convo with feyre…..I don’t play when it comes to her) but wasn’t sold on eluce because they had like one interaction and it wasn’t a great intro to a ship.

However this first meeting in acomaf….. :)

‘Can you truly fly?’ He set down his fork, blinking. I might have even called him self-conscious. He said, ‘Yes. Cassian and I hail from a race of faeries called Illyrians. We’re born hearing the song of the wind.’ ‘That’s very beautiful,’

“Rhys chuckled, Cassian’s wrath slipping enough that he grinned, and Elain, noticing Azriel’s ease as proof that things weren’t indeed about to go badly, offered one of her own as well.”

Well imagine my surprise when I finished acowar and it turns out mor (the person az has crushed on for 500 years) comes out to feyre before the book ends and she explains that she can never love az the way he loves her. After three books, and everything that happens in acowar it was clear to me that elain and azriel were being set up as each others love interests, despite the mating bond with l*cien.

After Acofas I was officially on the elriel train. I mean…

“Azriel strode to the lone window at the end of the room and peered into the garden below.”

“Azriel emerged from the sitting room, a glass of wine in hand and wings tucked back to reveal his fine, yet simple black jacket and pants. I felt, more than saw, my sister go still as he approached. Her throat bobbed.”

“But Azriel only took Elain’s heavy dish of potatoes from her hands, his voice soft as night as he said, ‘Sit. I’ll take care of it.’ Elain’s hands remained in midair, as if the ghost of the dish remained between them. With a blink, she lowered them, and noticed her apron. ‘I—I’ll be right back,’ she murmured, and hurried down the hall before I could explain that no one cared if she showed up to dinner covered in flour and that she should just sit.”

“Elain swept in, apron gone and hair rebraided. ‘Please don’t wait on my account,’ she said, taking the seat at the head of the table.”

“He [Azriel] was the portrait of relaxed, an arm braced against the carved mantel, his wings tucked in loosely, a faint grin on his face and a glass of wine in his hand. He slid his hazel eyes toward my sister without him moving an inch.”

“Azriel and Elain remained in the sitting room, my sister showing him the plans she’d sketched to expand the garden in the back of the town house, using the seeds and tools my family had given her tonight. Whether he cared about such things, I had no idea.”

(Damn the more I read elriel’s acofas moments the more I can’t help but conclude that they just hate/don’t understand introverts 😭)

Before I started SF, I decided to look at the online fandom and bitch……my jaw hit the floor with all the elain/elriel hate I saw on TT. And everyone was talking about a newer character in SF, and I was seeing the glee fan art and was like oh shit ok maybe elriel isn’t endgame.

Fast forward to SF……

‘What happened to Elain?’

“Nesta saw the blow land, like a physical impact, in Elain’s face, her posture. No one spoke, though shadows gathered in the corners of the room, like snakes preparing to strike. Elain’s eyes brightened with pain.”

……and I’m thinking ok, az obviously likes her. Then comes az’s BC. When I finished the elriel portion of the BC I was actually crying bc I was like oh fuck I really love these two….I knew it was over for me, and I was freaked out bc I thought I was going to get got with this “new ship” involving az. Plus I was thinking about elain being left alone in the dark without any explanation and feeling like an idiot for finally showing her true feelings towards him😭. It was like 3AM when I read it so I was hyper emotional lol. But then I read the rest of the BC and was still confused because I didn’t see any romantic subtext with g/wyn. I read it and saw a hurt male who couldn’t stand what he had done to elain the night before, was pissed at his brother for stopping it and making him feel bad when he was finally willing to voice what he’s been feeling for the past year or so and hating that he was shut down because we know he never voices his emotions, and couldn’t bear keeping a gift he picked out specifically for her. A necklace…..for solstice……Then I finished SF as a whole, and still, was confused as to why glee is a ship. Nearly all of their conversations were centered around training, and Sarah didn’t use any descriptors in their encounters that elude to any romance or mutual interest. (Btw I have a whole take on rhys’ part in that BC and I think a lot of ppl are dense and don’t understand what he was going through in that book but I can save that for another time)

Cassian and Feyre have more chemistry than those too lol.

I then talked to my friend about the these ships (elriel, eluce, and glee) ((i didn’t talk about eluce much in this post but that’s a lifeless ship too. I mean…..she can’t stand that red head anyway soooo)), and I said “I’m an elriel through and through. Idc that eluce are claimed to be mates you can tell she does not like him. also glee makes no sense to me.” Not verbatim but you get the point. My friend is very sensible so by the end of our convo, she told me that she’ll accept whatever way Sarah goes and that she’ll give elain a chance when her book comes out.

But isn’t that what all of this shit is about in the end: unjustified dislike/distain/hate for elain? That’s certainly how is appears to me. You cannot look me in the eyes and tell me that you love elain if you ship her with a male whom she has expressed, on multiple occasions, zero interest in AND becomes a shell of herself when he’s around because she just doesn’t want to interact with him. (I want to reiterate that I don’t hate L, I don’t think he’s awful or anything. elain just doesn’t want to know him. And that’s her right.) The glees don’t like her bc she doesn’t fit their stereotype for what they want in an FMC and therefore, for azriel. Which is why they have been chirping that the next book will be azriel’s. Not elain’s….WHAT??? You sound fucking crazy. The eluces (even though they claim they like her) dislike her so much that they go on and on about how she needs to grovel and apologize to the male they like because HE deserves to be happy……the same male who she associates with one of the most traumatic days of her life. Who also has not apologized to her for the part he played in that day, but I digress.

I say all that to point out that Glee specifically is in the crack ship category. No canonical evidence in the text can be used to claim they are ‘mates’ or endgame or anything more than acquaintances. And that’s fine, but don’t act as though they’re to be taken seriously as a canon ship when there’s no evidence to support it. Don’t boldly claim that azriel “has two love interests” when he literally doesn’t. He can’t sleep because of elain. He can’t stop thinking about her. He’s short with his family and others around him the days and weeks following solstice. His shadows threaten to strike nesta when she hurts elain and causes her pain. He doesn’t assign his spies to watch L*cien in acofas because he doesn’t want to know if he’s trying to court elain. He goes full lethal when he hears she may have been hurt. He follows the sound of her laugh to see what caused it. He goes on a suicide mission to save her. They communicate through looks alone when their family is around. Have you read an SJM book before? This is how she sets up her relationships. Like, holy fuck.

You cannot claim elriel is a crack ship because they have had background build up that both FMCs in their respective books have noticed and commented on. Cassian has noticed it too DESPITE not being hyper aware of what’s going on with az in SF. (referencing the scene in SF where elain tells everyone at family dinner about nesta’s love for dancing and the ball story from when they were human).

This ship war shit is fucking crazy because really this should only be between elriel nation and the eluces. Anyway, I’m over dealing with the fever dream brigade and their hallucinations. They’re going to come crashing down like Icarus when the elriel bible release day arrives and all our suffering will finally come to an end.

Then after that I’ll need to defeat the tamlin redemption arch threats, bc that is not a claim, that’s a fuckin threat and I won’t stand for it. But let’s tackle one problem at a time.

Pink: side notes/thoughts that give more context to my points

Blue italics: convos I’ve had being referenced

Purple: elriel moments <3

[11queensupreme11]

No hi to you queen, just my tears in a cup.

Leave me alone, don't fucking touch me.

*cry*

Why Percy? Why? Your original world isn't that good to be fighting for them so much

He was NICE, as much as a god can be nice and he's willing to be better for you and was proving it.

Ra, fist up, I'm going to fight the fucking sun and no one is going to stop me, on sight bitch, stop destroying my horror rom-com, you horrible bitch

Also, Anubis was so sad 😭😭😭 like, that's my baby, he's just a little wrong but love and a domestic life can fix that.

I normally support Percy, like, yeah girl, make them suffer but now!?

Don't let me see you princess, one hundred percent kidnapping you and throwing you back cause I'm sure some years of being a stay at home mom with a lovely husband and a good dick would cure her.

That's the power of a good man with a good dick.

CAME BACK HOME MOM! YOUR DAUGHTER AND HUSBAND IS WAITING FOR YOU!

And go where? Girl, your dad is incestuous!!! Here comes the Electra complex (me, being a hypocrite cause yes, I've a new favorite) and uncle wants to fucks you!!!

(My other babies are fine, yes, they are crazy but they're mine and I take no comments cause I was firm in the storm and they prove me right)

My baby is going to wake up to an empty bed, just when he was LOVED AND FOR ONCE SOMEONE HUGGED HIM WHEN HE WAS THE ONE THAT ALWAYS HUGGED

Him, thinking he was going to wake up with a wife that loves him just to take away from him HIS DREAM QUEEN I'M NOT OKAY WHY!?

PERCY DON'T GO, PLEASE JUST TRY TO LOVE HIM AND STAY WITH HIM HE CAN BE GOOD AND EVERYTHING YOU ALWAYS ASKED YOU JUST HAVE TO TRY

I'm the problem? Cause I'm really sad now, Anubis was so kind and loved her so much that I can't understand why

I know everything is for the drama but...

I'm not fine, thanks for asking

(Daily reminder that Nico is amazing and that we should support our emo boys)

looks like hera's not the only anti-shipper here now, ra is now violently anti-anuby 😂

"a good dick would cure her" but what if it makes her worse 👹

[vladdyissues]

just a little reminder to always check accounts!! don't interact with anti-proship bc pompep is a proship!! i know you are probably careful and don't but as a fellow pompep shipper i just wanted to remind you ^_^

Thank you, anon. I typically do glance at accounts before interacting, and so far I've had only one or two instances where I've been mistaken about someone.

One point I feel necessary to mention: I don't actually label myself as "proship", even though I agree with everything that word stands for (i.e., ship and let ship, don't like/don't read, your kink is not my kink and that's okay, don't harass people over fiction, censorship is bad, and various other forms of "don't be a feelings yakuza"). Back in my day, this was called being a normal fan. The only people who had a label were the antis.

Quote via korrasera:

Specifically, there aren’t anti-antis. There’s just antis, who are authoritarians, and the people who disagree with them.

Also—and please don't think any of this is criticizing you personally, anon; I'm strictly addressing the current fandom climate and my personal stance in it—I would never label any ship as "proship" because doing so insinuates that there are "safe/good" ships and "dangerous/bad" ships*. It plays into anti rhetoric, where antis are trying to redefine "proship" as being short for "problematic ship". That's a lie. Reject it.

*Any ship can be "problematic". Romeo/Juliet is "problematic" because Juliet is purported to be 13 or 14. Han Solo and Leia Organa have a 13-year age gap. Lots of phans think Sam/Danny is problematic because Sam is "toxic". It's all wank.

Same goes for the more recent "comship" label. I agree with the attitude, but I'm not getting it tattooed on me. I'm a fan. I enjoy my ships. I let others enjoy their ships, and if I hate those ships, I keep my mouth shut and move along. I have as much right to be here as any other fan. I will use the main fandom tag. I will tag all relevant characters. I am doing my due diligence. If anyone has a problem with that, it's their responsibility to block me, block the ship tag, and take charge of their own online experience.

[msnihilist]

Hi, (I’m not anti or pro whatever that stuff are, just adding a bit of objective side to this whole debate because for some reason it’s on my for you page)

So as for pro-shippers claiming that it’s all okay because it’s fantasy, I think you sometimes lack to realise that there’s very thin line between fantasy and normalisation, and explanations with the type like “Well I won’t normalise it I know it’s bad, it’s just fiction/fantasy” doesn’t necessarily work from like logical and actual point of view. Because as for human minds, the more you’re exposed to something in certain view, the more you get used to it, thus normalising it. So bt more content view the more the line between fiction and reality becomes blurred, as it was proven and shown many times in the past, it’s simply how our minds work. So I don’t really like how offensive you get when people use the argument that it’s bad, because it indeed is. By the process I explained before. Is the act itself bad if it doesn’t include actual people? No. Feel free to do so, I think, but you have to actively remind yourself and your viewers that it’s indeed only “okay” in not-real sense of situation. Say what you will but author is responsible for the content he creates and to make it safe. With the moment you feel like the line that should be very much defined begins to blur you need to reach for profesional help because it’s not normal to project fantasies onto actual-living-beings.

As for anti-shippers, I understand your stand but so much hate and anger is harming for everyone. It’s understandable and admirable to stand for your morals and protect those in need, but as long as the content doesn’t cause actual harm to actual people, simply avoid it. It just might not be for you. Harassing and bullying other people for their creations/fantasies is not okay. I understand not wanting to normalise 4buse/p3d0phillia/inc3st, etc. but there’s important thing to remember, that is coping mechanism and idea of fantasy. The idea of it may somehow be hard to understand, that’s why sometimes you need to take time to acknowledge things. Sometimes you just need to cut it out of your sight. We all should be mindful and expectant of other people abilities to differentiate moral/not moral and fiction/reality. While it might be upsetting and annoying when pro-shippers seem to not acknowledge the seriousness of the case, you sometimes have to give the benefit of the doubt. Of course there are some “bad” individuals, but so are in every majority/minority ever.

Ok that’s all, I think, coming from someone who isn’t on either side, just did the necessary reaserch and have a piece of actual information. No rudeness or anything behind it. Simply informational, because honestly as long as you don’t harm/include real people in your whatever you call it, it’s not my business. However if you do, and you seem to cross the line, people have all the rights to criticise and call you out for it.

Anyhow, don’t be bitter, stay woke, eat the rich. Thank you for coming for my TedTalk.

(Although I do have to say, some of yall (both sides) toxic as hell)

TL:DR:

Remember kids, the line between fantasy and normalization is thin. Simply saying "it's just fiction" doesn't negate the potential for normalization, as repeated exposure can blur this line, influencing our perception. It's crucial to remind oneself and others that certain content is only acceptable in a fictional context. Creators must be responsible for their content and how they present it. Please do seek help if you struggle to maintain the distinction between fiction and reality.

Regarding anti-shippers, while your stance is understandable, excessive hate is counterproductive. Opposing harmful content is valid, but harassment isn't. Recognize that fantasy can serve as a coping mechanism for some. Not all pro-shippers are malicious, and it's important to give the benefit of the doubt while being mindful of the difference between fiction and reality. As long as no real harm is done, it’s not anyone’s concern. However, if real lines are crossed, criticism is justified

So, anon, the reason this is on your "for you" page is probably because you follow someone who interacts heavily with ship discourse. That's how the Tumblr algorithm usually works.

Anyway, it's your first paragraph and I already have a problem with it. There is no "objective" side to this debate. What, do you think you're the first person to ever have the brave and unique take that both sides are bad? Uh, no.

Objectively, the idea that fictional settings are sandboxes and should be judgment free is simply correct. There's really nothing to debate. Antis are wrong and frankly delusional.

Now that we've cleared that up, we'll move on to your second paragraph.

There is not a "thin line" between fantasy and normalization. How do I know that, you may ask? Simple: there are 154,000 fics on AO3 tagged as incest. There are 394,000 tagged as rape/non-con. There are 1,084,000 tagged as graphic violence. These numbers increase every minute.

So where are the rising numbers of murder in our society? Most antis such as yourself are American, so we'll just stick to American numbers. I don't see increased reports of rape or incest, even though Game of Thrones and House of the Dragons are insanely popular. Shameless and Breaking Bad didn't increase drug usage. I don't see Euphoria leading to greater rates of teenagers having sex.

But if you have the facts to back up your argument about normalization, anon, I would love to see your sources. Otherwise I'm afraid I will have to put that word on the top shelf until you learn how to use it properly.

(I found one study trying to link incest to pornography, but it was published by bedbible.com, so... Let's just say that I doubt their ability to be objective on the matter.)

What you go on to describe (with people getting used to something the more they see it) is called the mere exposure effect. It's a psychological phenomenon where people tend to develop a preference for things or people that are more familiar to them. Repeated exposure increases familiarity which increases positive associations. This is how branding works.

But if you knew anything about psychology, anon, you would know that this is, again, a phenomenon and not a law of human thought. Do people tend to like things that they see a lot? Sure! I think my bedroom is super comforting. I tend to like the friends that I see more often than the ones I don't see.

But I also hate brands that are constantly blasting me with ads. The more I listen to a song over and over again, the less I want to listen to it yet again.

And none of that even has anything to do with "the fine line between fantasy and normalization," as you put it, because what you're describing is escalation. It's mostly found in drug usage — how your body becomes used to a feeling and you need to take more and more of a substance in order to get the same feeling that a little bit used to give you.

The mere exposure effect works like this: I dislike the ship Ben/Gwen. Not because they are cousins, but because it simply doesn't appeal to me. I read a couple of fics about them. Gradually, I start to warm up to the pairing. I look at fanart. My fondness grows. Rinse and repeat, and here I am, writing my own Ben/Gwen fanfics.

The escalation effect works like this: I like the Ben/Gwen ship. I consume and create more content for this pairing, but it doesn't feel as satisfying as it used to. I begin to wonder about my own cousins. I start to think that the cousin I am closest to is kind of cute. I emulate the behaviors that I've seen in fanfic and fanart with my cousin, hoping to recreate the same joy I used to feel with my favorite pairing.

Do you see how insane that second thing sounds? Absolutely nobody does that. Do you know why? Because we understand that fiction and reality are too very different and starkly defined things. There is not a "thin line" between them, that line is a fucking wall at least twenty feet thick.

The familiarity = comfort effect does work, sometimes. That example with Ben/Gwen was a real one from my life. The more I saw it, the more I liked it. But I can also give you a dozen examples of things I see a lot and absolutely hate. That's why it's a "phenomenon" and entirely irrelevant to the point you're trying your best to make.

Also, if you're going to say "as was proven many times in the past," you're going to need a citation, otherwise I'm just going to have to assume that this knowledge was revealed to you in a dream.

Moving on.

"So I don’t really like how offensive you get when people use the argument that it’s bad, because it indeed is. By the process I explained before." ← We can strike that first sentence out entirely, because what you "explained before" was pulled straight out of your ass.

You have already reached the conclusion that certain things in fiction are wrong or gross to portray, and now you're trying to work backwards and retroactively find "evidence" to prove that these things are harmful so that you don't have to face the fact that you're no better than any other reactionist. Your disgust is not a good basis for a moral standpoint, but you would clearly rather pretend that it is instead of finding real information and developing an opinion from the bottom up, instead of this top-down bullshit you're trying to pass off as "objective" when this just reeks of empathy trolling.

Next: if you have to be actively reminded that murder, rape, and incest are Bad™, then you aren't emotionally mature enough to be reading my work, or anyone else's. I worry that you might read "The Hungry, Hungry Caterpillar" and start thinking that binge eating is okay. I mean, the author didn't come out and say that gourging yourself is bad! No wonder so many children in America are obese these days...

"Say what you will but author is responsible for the content he creates and to make it safe." No, they're not. You're insane.

"...it’s not normal to project fantasies onto actual-living-beings." Actually, it is. You fantasize about real people all the time. Have you ever masturbated to the thought of a crush? Got the short end of the stick at work and dreamt about giving your boss a piece of your mind? Even just felt really sad and imagined that someone was with you to make it feel better? Congrats, you fantasized about people!

You only need to seek professional help for fantasies when they start to distress you. Up until you run the risk of doing something in real life to hurt another person, you are under no obligation to share your thoughts. You do not need to be afraid of yourself because you imagined a one night stand with a stranger on the street. What matters is how you treat others, not what you keep to yourself.

"[Directed at antis] It’s understandable and admirable to stand for your morals and protect those in need." Quick correction: antis are protecting no one. Fictional characters aren't real and don't need to be "saved." Antis are also not understandable or admirable. Other than those things, this sentence is okay.

"I understand not wanting to normalise 4buse/p3d0phillia/inc3st, etc." Do everyone a favor and stop talking like a Homestuck character. Abuse. Pedophilia. Incest. These concepts are not somehow less harsh because you spelled it with numbers and made it harder for people with reading disabilities to follow.

"it might be upsetting and annoying when pro-shippers seem to not acknowledge the seriousness of the case" that's because there is nothing serious happening. I'm playing with my dolls. It's a shame that some people think I play too rough, but their outrage is not my problem.

You did not do any research or present any information. You weren't rude, but you also definitely weren't informational.

Wrong again. Fantasies about real people are also fine. Thoughts harm no one. No one has the "right" to criticize you for wrongthink. If you try to say that it's okay to criticize people for "crossing the line," then that begs the question, where is the line drawn? Let's ban RPF. Okay. Some bands have characters and stories in their albums. Can we write about their characters? The age of consent is different in many countries. Do we have to wait until all real people are older than 18, and why do American standards get dominance? If I base my OC heavily off of my favorite celebrity, does that count as RPF? What if the celebrity says they're okay with it? What if the celebrity is okay with certain things, but not this or that? If the celebrity changes their opinion, are all old works retroactively problematic? Etc etc. I can do this all day with any facet of fiction under the sun.

Censorship is not gray. It's all or nothing. If we start drawing the lines, eventually someone else is going to get to draw them, too, and they will not agree with where the line started.

Next time you want to sound informed, it would help to do some actual research. I have a collection of papers on violent fantasies and cyberbullying and the importance of fiction as an outlet if you need somewhere to start.

[somevillainfuckery]

Hello there! I hate drama and and want to nip this in the bud! 😃 Can I clarify something? Because I am a bit confused. Sorry if this is long...

Apparently I shared something of yours as a shipper at one point and you didn't like that...... and then (based on what you wrote in your tag to me) that you apparently shared some sort of passive aggressive message and it ended up being about me? And you think I clapped back? Or something like that?? I think???

And then you said something about an anonymous message?

I am very confused. Because I have no idea what you are talking about. I haven't seen or interacted to any complaint post. I aint got time for that. Ive been on this tag for 2 days, and I am well aware that it is polarized on the ship. Believe me. And i respect that. That is your opinion and you free to have it, I also love the platonic side too! I'm literally here for a good time and dont do drama.

I have learned that l've shared something of yours, and it made you uncomfortable, but I don't like that and I don't like to cause rifts in fandoms. I actually like all types of ships because I don't think that any one ship can be wrong because it's all fantasy and no one ship should be able to gatekeep any fandom, AND we should all stay in each other's lanes. I am just living my life, dude. If I have something to say I will use my face. I don't do anon. I'm not a coward.

In the past I have personally have gotten death threats and anonymous lies about my info being stolen as well as anon messages of people wanting to rape my dead body all because I ship something they don't approve of in past fandoms. So sick and stupid. All for a personal preference! So gross!! But anime fandoms are ceazy. That behavior is what I call a cheeto-fingered red bull flavored anti, and yes, I referenced them in one beetlejuice post because they are out definitely there.

God I hope you aren't one of those people.

Now I can honestly say that I haven't seen this supposed post of yours being passive aggressive towards shipppers (me), nor have I sent you any anonymous messages, but I would appreciate it, if you are just a normal person trying to keep the peace, then please, if you have an issue with me, please bring it up with me personally instead of adding to potential drama than doesn't need to be had.

I did make a post about my opinion on the couple after my first watch of the new movie, and I added a bit at the end about antis, but I figure you as more of a non-shipper or something, because you seemed cordial the post you tagged me in, and I haven't gotten anything ugly yet in this fandom which is nice. (thank goodness)

I mean hell, I support crack milulti-fandom ships because at the end of the day it's all fantasy and no one is wrong. I'm Ace so I actually love platonic ships just as much as romantic ones. I like and support it all!!! I just am fucked up in the head and i like this one romantically too. I am well aware that this ship is problematic, but thats why fantasy is so fun. I crave normalcy in reality but anything but in fantasy.

Like you said in the post you tagged me in, I also don't want to cause more unnecessary drama. I have not been in the beetlejuice tag for very long so if there is a more appropriate tags to use I will defitately use them. I am all about keeping the peace.

I'm just here to share content and find fun people to vibe with, but yeah I am used to staying vigilant with the uglies that try to be mean. Ive created sancruary groups for other fandoms simply so people can enjoy their ships in peace. I am not paying attention to you if you don't ship them (at least I'm trying not to).

I have not, nor will I read whatever it was that might have been said, but I am happy to rectify my mistake and delete anything I might have shared of yours. I will not heart or share any of your posts, because I do ship them and I don't want people to get the wrong idea about you. - Damn that sounds Hella passive aggressive but I'm not trying to be.

Believe me, this is the weirdest message I've sent to anyone, but I hope it is read and understood by a cordial individual. Please be safe out there. Please enjoy your lovely platonic besties, and I hope you find solas in whatever you can. The world is vicious. 💚🖤

(@spirits-n-giggles because of the word-limit on the chat I will reply here. I apologize for the delay in seeing/replying to this. I'm gonna try and explain things to the best of my ability-) To explain the anon thing, I swear, I did not think it was you. The very second I sent out my complaint post, someone sent an anonymous ask ripping me a new one, and I chose to delete and ignore it. After that I just realized that the complaint post was.. really really stupid of me- When I mentioned you in the post you had actually seen, the reason I apologized for the complaint post was in case you had seen it and decided to ignore it [which is completely valid]. I'm sorry you have to deal with horrible threats simply because of a ship you like. Just because someone ships a certain thing, does not mean that gives people the right to harass them. Just like you, I'm only trying to enjoy beetlejuice content, and I'm not trying to have any drama go down. I'm glad you understand, and that you enjoy my content. I won't block anyone from enjoying anything I post unless absolutely necessary, and right now.. its not anything serious enough to have you remove things that you reblogged from my account or anything. If you enjoy it, then do what you will, reblog and like what you want. I'm glad we both just want to keep the peace in the fandom, and avoid trouble, and I'm sorry if we got off on the wrong foot. I wish you a wonderful weekend, and if there's anything else that needs clarification, if you want to ask about anything else, or even away from this and you wanna talk about anything else- please reach out to me and let me know.

[docmenlonhead]

“Class of ‘09” is a Visual Novel for Antis (but not the pure kind)

Please note that this was made out of during the discourse involving controversal contents involving minors. This was out of an lack of proper understanding of the Shipping discourse and the definition of pro shippers. Please note that I’m against purity culture and the call for the sanatization of the online space, but I do advocate the proper use of content tags and ratings (like in Ao3 and Newgrounds).

l mediaI know it sounds strange, but I’m starting to believed that “Class of ‘09”encapsulates everything wrong with Visual Novels; Namely, ones that depicts teens in questionable situations.

For the uninitiated, “Class of ‘09” (not to be confused with the television show of the same name) is a visual novel created by the team behind the abridged series “Batman Beyond Ill”, which is where that meme about the glass ceiling of oppressed gamers came from. It’s there you play as Nicole, a self proclaimed Sociopathic teenager who has to to survive the last two years in high school before graduation; all while having to navigate through the constant cat calls from her peers and superiors, along with the misogyny and racism that permeates the schools of the southwest United States in the late 2000s. Despite the grim premise and subject matter, like drug use, manipulations, and self-harm (all of which can be enacted by Nicole), it’s often depicted as a “Dark Comedy”, thanks to the clever writings of scenarios and the brilliant delivery of the voice actors within the game itself.  It was because to that, many look up to the trouble teen as she’s the embodiment of the cruel societal system that normalized those kinds of “problematic behaviors”.

It was through her I would like to make her a poster child of AntiShipping and Lewding; namely anything that involves minors in some capacity. Like she often kick Jeremy’s (the school’s Weeb) fantasies down both out of disgust and self-gratitude. That and to make fun of her creepy older brother (who’s an adult, by the way). Here what I believed she will  say to ProShippers if she were to interact with them:

“So you aged them up? It doesn’t denote the fact that you wanted to fuck them!”

“Just because they’re both teens and fucking doesn’t make it any less gross that you depict it in explicit detail, you sicko!”

“‘Oh it’s imaginary, it didn’t hurt anyone’. Well, imagine my fist in your face!”

“Try telling that to your Mom. I bet she’ll send you to therapy before someone call the police and have you registered as a sex offender”

We need a mean girl who went through countless sexual harassment from both her superiors and peers to state what’s wrong with how teens are depicted in adult media these days.

[jannahime]

For the flowers sent to Hybe, they were sent by an anti who wants to "punish" Yoongi. The flowers were declared a form of illegal protest and were taken down within the hour and the person who sent it is getting a fine for it. Almost 100% of the time, it's not Army who is sending protest wreaths or flowers but antis who want to make Army look bad. The company has said Yoongi leaving the band isn't even an option on their mind and besides; Namjoon, Jin, Hobi, Jimin, Taehyung, and Jungkook would never agree to continue on without Yoongi. For them, it's 7 or none.

Thank you so much for clearing this up for me it helped a lot @ahhockey . (*this next part isn’t directed to you @ahhockey , this me talking about Solo Stan’s, Antis, and Shippers.*) It’s just sad some anti’s have to act out this way and you know embarrass themselves like. Like I get it, the Anti doesn’t like BTS then move on Anti, but it’s just sad as we are all lovers of K-pop lovers or k-pop enthusiasts that love K-pop, Can’t sometimes come together as a family with the K-pop community you know not just for BTS but for, Stray Kidz, Black Pink, Red Velvet, Seventeen, Enhypen, Shinee, New Jeans, TXT, NCT, Monsta X, you know all these wonderful and amazing K-pop artists (sorry if I didn’t mention other ones those were the ones that came at the top of my head.) and support each other. Because yes they maybe different artists or groups but they all sure as hell are always making us feel happy, you now feeling joy, and are like what gets some us through with some hard days or weeks or months and even years. I really wish fans from other groups would get along with other fans, and the same goes shippers, and solo Stan’s, (*Again not all shippers and solo Stans are like this. But some shippers and Solo stans do take it too far. And I’m talking about the ones who take it too far.*) like I get the shipping that you like to ship but in most cases sometimes things go too far and it really gets to the point where they start attacking other members for hanging out with the ones they ship, you can’t just tell them to fuck off, it’s wrong first of all to tell the idols that and shippers and solo Stans of fans from every group, in k-pop you damn sure as hell know that without any of the rest of the group members they wouldn’t be Black pink, Seventeen, TXT, Monsta X, New jeans, Red velvet, Shinee, BTS, etc. (*you get the point.*) put yourself in there shoes….you wouldn’t like it if someone did the same thing to you, you wouldn’t feel good, as someone who has been bullied before I know the feeling that they go through when someone doesn’t say something nice, and you can see it clear as day on all of the members faces. Especially the one member who is getting hate. Don’t be that top of person. This is a k-pop community that supports all K-pop groups, Be kind and respectful not just to one another but to group and its members. They all work hard not just for themselves but to see us happy and to cheer them on. So please enough with the hate, enough with the malice, and enough with the harassment, this includes stalkers-Sasaengs. Enough is enough. No more thinking that y’all are entitled to do whatever you want, you know damn well that ain’t fucking true, get it in your heads that your idols don’t belong to you, they are not property, they are human beings who have feelings and live normal lives outside of the fame, y’all aren’t entitled to anything, do not put them on pedestals nor worship them as gods and goddesses because they are human beings with feelings, and it’s a shame that some of them have to come out and tell you straight up to basically let them be, don’t be so shameless and embarrass yourself like that in harassing/stalking them. Be better, do better. And if some of y’all get offended by this well I’m sorry, but I’m not saying anything bad, all I’m saying as we are all a part of the K-pop community, we all should come together and support each other and all K-pop groups. I’m sure I’m going to get some hate from some people but hey. It’s not an offense it’s your view on how you view this, but I don’t see anything wrong because I spoke clearly. And once again thank you @ahhockey for helping me understand the BTS article. I greatly appreciate it.

[tiphprince]

Just wanted to say thanks for standing up for snarry shippers when the rhetoric gets ugly. It’s so disappointing and discouraging to to see antis within the snapedom, so i appreciate your calling it out when you see it.

Of course!

I'm not that much of a Snarry shipper myself, I'm more of a Snamione fan so I do understand how tiring the constant ship bashing can get. (However, if you or anyone reading this has some nice +100k words Snarry fics, please send them my way!)

There's no issues with disliking ships, but saying things like "x people should die" just because they... draw fanart of a fictional couple is unacceptable.

I think it's even worse when it comes from Snape fans too. To me, this read like an oppressed minority who hates on another oppressed minority, in the sense that if you're okay with some people getting hate or even death threats for their taste in fiction, then you've lost any right to complain when others do the same to you.

Even the discourse on "proshippers" is so freakingly dumb. "I hate anyone who thinks that harassing and hating people for their taste in fiction!!!", like in what world does that make sense? They hate people for... not being as hateful as them? Is that it?

The term "proshipper" didn't even exist before antis became a wild thing and started acting so horribly that many people tried to dissociate themselves from this bunch of toxic haters who make fandom spaces feel unsafe. That's because normally, any human being with half a functioning brain can actually understand the difference between reality and fiction.

Anyway... Snarry rocks!

[cotaco-witch-blog]

Please, please be kind to minors who were groomed into the proship cult. That's all I'm asking. They are being prayed upon by some very bad people in their lives and telling them to kill themselves is only driving them deeper. Don't be the reason an otherwise well adjusted person is lost.

Seriously. Do better.

[runscold-runsdeep]

Important Read/about me

Hi, I'm Meph, my pronouns are he/him, and I'm transmasc. I'm 21 years old and my birthday is Feb 17th, if anyone even cares.

While the blog is mostly dedicated to cardiophilia, I may reblog and make content for my other kinks and fetishes like

Hands/gloves

Priests/blasphemy (my side blog for that is @fatherrlascivious )

Vampirism/blood

Hypno

Biting/marking

Tickling DO FUCKING NOT COME AT ME OVER THIS XD LEAVE ME ALONE

Petplay (a kitty boy runs this blog)

This blog is predominantly a Ghost fanblog, but I may write and make art for other fandoms I'm in.

Only mutuals and my girlfriend can send nsfw requests (art/fic requests is open to everyone, I meant personal requests from me, like audios and photos)

If I'm not following you, it's because this is a side blog. I like and follow others with @call-me-mephistophelees

My commissions are open! (Ko-Fi)

Fanfic masterlist

DNI

I usually inspect every blog that follows me so I can deem them 'safe' or not, so if you are the following

A minor

Anti-LGBT+

MAP

Nazi

Owner of a blog containing triggering content (Self-harm, irl gore, ED content, etc.)

Zoophile

Pro-shipper (minor x adult character)

You are not welcome on this blog and you will be blocked.

Additional thoughts

If you genuinely took the time to read all of that, thank you! That legitimately means a lot to me that you cared enough to not gloss over everything. Though, this intro post isn't done yet. There's just a little more, but you're close to the end of it.

I'm only human, I make mistakes, so feel free to point out if I reblog from someone unsafe, or if I mistag something. I'm not gonna get angry if anyone comes to my DMs or askbox pointing something out like that. If you do so, I appreciate your help.

When recieving asks or DMs, I normally struggle with identifying typing tones, so tone tags are greatly appreciated whenever used. I may not use them often myself, which is something I need to work on and make a habit. If you're unsure of my tone, please ask me to tag or rephrase. Some of us struggle with tone, and that's okay.

Thank you so much again for taking the time to read this, and I look forward to creating chaos with y'all.

If anyone wants to volunteer and help me proof read my fics, that would be very much appreciated ;;

🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

Stand with Palestine

[kledface]

Idk i guess i should consider an intro post or something?

Name:

Hi, im kledface, but you can call me kled. No, i have no association with league of legends and have been entirely turned off from playing it due to people asking if my name is because of the character. There is an origin story though!

Content:

I like sharing cute animals, pretty things, memes, and trans shit, cause i am a trans shit, people should be nicer/more normal about trans folks, especially those who are trans-fem and gender nonconforming. I also enjoy sharing art, both my own and others, because art is amazing. Sometimes i will post my weird little rambles here. Sometimes theyre serious, sometimes theyre just pissing in the wind. Life is full of wonder or some schist idk

Identity:

Im trans, genderfaun, my pronouns do change sometimes, but for the most part, he, they, and it are all fine for me. Go ahead and dabble in neos if you want, im not 100% sure what works and what doesnt there. Im also kinda coming to terms with being demi-aroace, or demian. This is a newer label for me, but i think its the right one. Im a pretty proud furry, and also an otherkin; hi, dragon speaking. My fursona is a dragon, but i have plenty of characters; some are even not dragons! I love dragons more than anything. I am mentally ill, with severe depression, social anxiety, schizophrenia, and a very troubled past that has caused splitting, and most likely either ADHD, autistic, or both, but nothing is confirmed yet besides being dyslexic. Currently am 19, though on the kalends of april i will be 20. This makes me nervous. I do not enjoy celebrating my birthday.

Likes and dislikes:

I love dragons, pineapple, rain and snow, fire, lightning, warhammers, birds, cats, the colours orange and blue, food, flowers, shiny rocks, dnd, mtg, drawing, reading, video games, a wide variety of music, the forest, and helping others, especially those im closer to. I hate conspiracy theories, aliens, bell pepper, chartreuse, intense heat, being short, bigots, and being treated like a demon. Some of these things are because of my past, others are just general hates

Personality:

Because of the splitting, sometimes its not just one person talking; there are eleven of us with different personalities. I, as the host, am the person you are most likely to catch though. I like to consider myself fun loving, though protective. Compassionate and easily scared. Some of us are much more grumpy, and cynical, while others are literal children. Please have patience with us, we are trying.

Other socials:

I do have some other platforms. This is the one im on second most often.

Discord: kledface [active]

Instagram: kartoffelzauberer [semi-active]

Twitter: kledface [inactive]

I have a reddit but i dont remember it

Technically i can invest in others but i dont really want to unless i have to, and there are some i havent listed but dont even worry about those, i dont want to be found

DNI:

Listen. Im a generally accepting person. But some people arent welcome here. No homophobes or transphobes, no terfs, no racists, no xenophobes, no ablists, no sexists, no ageists; If you hate someone for a fundamental aspect of their being, get the fuck out. Also, no anti-furs. This isnt the same, cause its more of a fandom thing, but if you hate someone for their fandom, i dont want to hear about it. Leave. Bye felicia. I will likely block you if you are a pro-shipper, because ew. And if you are any kind of pedophile, zoophile, or rapist, i would hunt you down and kill you myself if i could, i don't care how you excuse yourself, youre a disgraceful piece of shit who doesn't deserve to live, literally kill yourself. I hate saying and hearing that, but youre the kind of person who deserves it.

Finale:

I think that's it. Hit me up if you have questions or wanna talk, my askbox and messages are open. Thank you for coming to my KLEDtalk

[Kountenance, Lecturing, Education, Dick]

[missmacfire]

Shipper Tag Game

Tagged by @4typercent Thanks You! ❤️

This got a bit long... Also some questions where a bit odd? But I tried 😄

What ship were you completely obsessed with as a teenager, but now you don't care about anymore?

Well I didn't really get into shipping until uni, was not really aware of it as a teenager. But one of my earliest ships was Grell x Sebastian and I don't really care for it anymore.

Mostly because I don't really care for Black Butler anymore. The later seasons were bad, and I'm less inclined to look over the problems that were already there from the start.

(A bit sad, there are still good concepts there 😔)

Which ship would you consider your first one?

Not sure, probably Data x Geordi? I strongly remember being obsessed with Data when I first found Star Trek.

Your first fanfic was about which couple?

This one is easier: L x Light from Death Note. (First read)

Do you remember the first couple you saw fan art of?

Absolutely no idea. But the first video edit I saw of a ship was definitely Spock x Kirk.

Have you ever gotten into ship discourse

Probably? I do feel the urge to defend my ships when someone decides they are "problematic"

Oh and I did post hate for that one ship, but I was nice and tagged it with "anti x" and started off my post with "this is anti x, if you like it please keep scrolling" really didn't want to start an argument, I just wanted to rant 😆

Did you use to have any NOTP or have one currently?

Yes I do.

Who were the last couple in the last fanfic you read?

Astarion x Gale. I'm loving Astarion x Wyll, Astarion x Gale and Astarion x Halsin at the moment 🥰 Shipping my vampire boy with all the boys.

Currently, do you have any OTPs?

So, so many.

Is there any couple that, to this day, that you are extremely mad about not getting into?

This is such an odd question, what? Why would anyone care about that? Is there something I'm not understanding?

Is there any ship you used to dislike but now you think they're kind of interesting?

There are ships I didn't care about in the original source, but then liked when it got a tv-show? Does that count? For example Dream x Hob and Ishamael x Lews Therin.

Do you have any ship that, in the past, would have been considered normal but now you would be cancelled over?

I have multiple ships with haters that say they are "problematic" but they have always had haters. 🤷‍♀️ So no?

What is your favourite crack ship?

I don't know, Nigel x Antwan was fun?

What is the couple you read the most fanfics about?

Probably still Yuri Katsuki x Victor Nikiforov

What do most of your ships have in common?

That they are a bit stupid about realizing they belong together

What do you absolutely hate in a ship?

Het-Ships where the guy just won't take no for an answer. The whole "don't give up eventually she will say yes" is such a bad trope that is way too common.

Like don't get me wrong, I love Darcy x Elizabeth. That someone says no once and then gets to know the other person better and changes their mind can be done well. But so often it is not, and it just looks like he wears her down 🤮

Tagging: @baba-wodnica @ahopefulsun @deaderthandoubledead @ramsaybaggins @idrisstorey @readingtheentrails @the-scarecrowlover @alwaysawkwardd

No pressure 🥰💕

[iitsokai]

Although i do agree that no memebr needs a reason to talk about other members taehyung going"jk jk" on his every single lives is meh...like see other members mentions e/o like take jm for example he talks about every single member and not just one specific. While as taehyung hardly talks about any other members. It's just now that he's talked to jm or about jm since 2023 but for jk he literally only ONLY mentioned jk and no one else. I have seen even tkkrs on Tumblr saying jk makes it seem like one sided that jk can reply and comment on jm's tiktok and weverse but can't acknowledge tae's album ( Thing is they dragged jkk saying jk watching jm's songs on live was fs but at the same time wanted that for tkk) But you know what? You're right about the thing that it's not normal to get mad at such things and if anyone's having problem with him just ignore his existence as simple as that.

Also i do hope you will never ever comapre the hate jm get's to any members' hate cause what jm goes through is incomparable like it's worst thing i have ever seen so please don't.

First of all, thank you anon for giving me a normal reply. Also, I know the hate Jimin has received and is STILL receiving and it honestly makes my stomach turn. I also do not care about what shippers say or how they analyze things, having an opinion about how their dynamic works or how Jungkook might feel in either situation is fine, but do NOT start hating on a member, especially 'cause of a ship!!

We all have seen Tae's depression era and we've all seen ITS where he had the conversation with Jungkook and where it became clear they had been distant for whatever reason. I've also noticed how in the past years they seemed to be going back to where they were and I'm so happy for them. This is not a fanfiction. Tae is not the love rival. He's a human being and none of us knows how deep their relationship goes, so to be bothered by how many times he mentions Jungkook is a personal problem and to me you seem like an anti and BTS has enough of those already.

[heisen-shrine]

Hello everyone and welcome to the new and improved Heisen-Shrine!

You guys know the drill! Here I post all kinds of awesome self shipping things, and now I have six f/os and plenty of love to go around.

I can't believe I now have as many f/os as Henry the 8th had wives, but at least I haven't killed any of my guys...yet lol. I'm mostly a villain shipper, but I've dipped my toes into anti-hero territory over the years. Most of my F/Os are villains, and that's okay. They hate everyone else but they love me ^^

Meet my guys!

Karl Heisenberg- the main man! I married this man Halloween of 2022 and we're still going strong. We also have an adopted son, Nanaue from the Suicide Squad. Karl is probably the most prominently featured f/o on here, and I love him to bits. He's encouraging, sweet, makes cool stuff, and is really big about my own creative endeavors. We support each other and make everything work <3

Astarion- the vampire from Baldur's Gate 3, I absolutely adore him. Normally vamps aren't my thing but this guy's got me by the throat with his sass and unabashed honesty. He's the sassy pansexual boyfriend I feel everyone needs in life ^.^

Elijah Kamski- Elijah is admittedly more of a familial f/o rather than a romantic one. But even so he's important to me and seems to be the perfect brother figure. He's helped me through a lot of my own sibling related trauma and I'm really thankful for that. If you need practical or technical advice, Elijah is my go to guy :)

Otto Octavius- from the Raimi-verse spider-man movies. I've loved this man since I was a child, and he's the oldest of my f/os on here. Partly familial, Partly romantic, my relationship with Otto can be rather complicated. Sometimes we don't even really know what we are to each other and I feel that's okay. He's a great man and I love him so much ^^

Oswald Cobblepot- from the Reeves-verse batman. He's a little out of the ordinary for me but I find we just click. He genuinely cares about me and was there when I was going through a very difficult period when I first moved to this new town. In a way he's my backbone and I appreciate it a ton :)

Rabban- from the 2021 Remake of Dune. This is my most recent F/O. He got my attention about two or three years ago but I really wasn't sure where I stood with him. To a degree we're still figuring everything out. Yes while he's brutal, he's been oddly nothing but kind to me and has been there for me in recent weeks. He's very much interested in my world, and I'm very much into his ^.^

Be sure to read my Rules please!

1. This isn't a Fandom blog per se, but I'd appreciate no Fandom drama on here.

2. Please be nice to me and my guys, we're really just trying here lol.

3. Keep the thirst to a minimum. I get it my guys are good looking, but they're more than that. Feel free to ask them or myself anything.

4. I try to be respectful of other self ships. If I'm shipping with any character that my followers aren't comfortable I fully respect your right to unfollow and block if you need to. I have no desire to make anyone feel uncomfortable or disrespected. I personally don't mind sharing but I know there's a few people who want their f/os to be exclusive to them and that is ABSOLUTELY valid! If you need to leave/block the blog it's perfectly fine and I understand.

5. I don't tolerate hate of any kind. If your only purpose is to come on to this blog and be an asshole you can move right along.

6. I don't think I personally classify myself as pro-ship, I am normally ship and let ship but I do have limits. Yes I know the difference between fiction and IRL but for me personally it all comes down to taste if that makes sense. Self shipping is a spectrum, and I'm on the end of not shipping with people who are far younger than you if you're a grown person. Two consenting adults is fine, but I don't wanna hear some nonsense about how "Oh well this young looking character is actually 1000 years old" or wtf ever. If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck, understand?

7. Speaking of ages, I am 30+. I honestly do not feel comfortable with people following me who are under the age of at least 20. It's nothing against anyone personally, but in my opinion if you still have teen at the end of your age, you're still a teenager to me. Granted I don't post adult content, but to be on the safe side if you're under the age of 20 please don't follow me. Thanks <3

8. Feel free to come on here and tell me about your f/os! I'm always happy to hear about anything you guys are doing together! I like to see others happy and how their relationships are going! If you need to vent, I'm always here too! I'd like to make more friends in this community.

9. Understand please that this is a side blog. If I follow anyone it'll be from my main blog, which is am RP blog. Heisen-Shrine isn't an rp blog per se, but I might post little funny/fun scenarios with my and my f/os, just general self shipping shenanigans

10. Just have fun, seriously. Life is too short to not enjoy things. Have fun, take it easy, and whether you use self shipping to cope or for some other reason, don't forget to have fun with it and enjoy just being with your f/os. They love you and they want you to be happy, and believe it or not, so do I <3 you deserve it