#anti jedi order

[komsomolka]

nawt people claiming the jedi order decay is palpatine's fault lol first no they bear full responsibility for their actions during the clone war second their problems go way beyond palpatine time as in those awful rules around attachments (which luke later narratively debunked) and becoming republic's cops in the first place.

[marveltaughtmetoread]

Masterlist of all my anti-Jedi posts

The Meta:

The divide between Prequels era fans Here

The way you take the story depends on how you look at it Here

The Jedi's downfall is a tragedy and this inevitable and that doesn't mean I support genocide wtf??? Here

The Clone Wars both wants the Jedi to be unquestionably good and be three dimensional and these things conflict Here

The Republic and the Jedi are shown to have fallen in the canon but the audience overlooks it cause the Separatists are the bad guys Here

Why are we treating the massacre of the Tusken Raiders so lightly???? Here

The Jedi being the issue:

The Jedi Order is itself flawed Here

The Jedi's actions are the issue, it doesn't actually matter how they internally handle their emotions in the face of those actions Here

The Jedi encourage emotional repression, thanks Here

My issue with the Jedi's attitude towards attachment Here

The Jedi aren't impartial they just don't care Here

The Jedi having all the force sensitive kids is weird actually Here

The Clone issue:

The clones are slaves and we need to acknowledge that Here

On a similar note, there is no AU where the clones have free will that is consistent with the canon Here

Anakin:

Anakin's fears are valid actually Here

How can Anakin be too old to become a Jedi, how is this not alarming to you Here

[short-wooloo]

Now that the trailer is out, it's probably best that I get this out of the way before acolyte releases

The Jedi are right about the Force and the dark side

The Jedi did not lose their way

The Jedi were not corrupted

The genocide of the Jedi was not their fault

The Jedi are not wrong for being part of the Republic, it is in fact a good thing

The Jedi are not arrogant for thinking the sith are gone

and while we're at it the sith are evil, always, end of discussion

The Jedi do not steal children

If someone wants to leave the Jedi, that's allowed, no one will stop them

The Jedi are right about attachment

Attachment is not love (SW uses the Buddhist definition because Lucas is a Buddhist and the Jedi are based off Buddhist monks, Buddhism defines attachment as being possessive or unwilling to let go of people or things)

The Jedi do not forbid emotions, they forbid being controlled by your emotions, you must control them

The Jedi are not forbidden from loving people, nor are they celibate, they just can't get married (big whup) because their duties must come first

Being peacekeepers doesn't preclude the Jedi from fighting in war, sometimes to keep the peace you have to fight back, especially when its against tyranny, see WWII (or Ukraine today)

Gray jedi are not a thing

The Jedi are not slavers or complicit in slavery

Oh and of course, the Jedi are not elitists for not training non Force sensitives, (Han voice) that's not how the Force works, dave filoni broke the rules so he could shoehorn sabine into a Jedi (to give the benefit of the doubt, I do believe sabine's role as ahsoka's apprentice was meant for an original character but things got condensed by executives, so maybe filoni isn't entirely to blame here)

(Edit)

The Jedi are not cops

The Jedi are not the government/the rulers of the Republic/galaxy

The Jedi do not persecute other Force groups

Padawans are not child soldiers

Feel free to add anything I forgot

Do not, DO NOT!! add anything Jedi critical, I'm done with it and won't hear it, don't have something nice to say? Then go away, I will block on sight, either reblog without comment (either in the reblog or the notes) or don't interact at all

[jedi-enthusiasm-blog]

Jedi Antis: The Jedi are too caught up in politics! They have power to change things, they just don't!

Meanwhile, the Jedi:

Every time they argue with a politician, they are shot down.

I wonder what that could mean? That maybe they don't have as much political power as the antis seem to believe? That maybe *gasp* they were meant to be the victims of Palpatine's manipulation the whole time?

[GIFs aren't mine. Credit to @david-talks-sw ]

[sunfyrisms]

it’s really interesting seeing how people are apparently looking at anakin’s rejection to the title of master through his view point. they hate the council for denying him what they—and he—believes is his right. he wants the title without the work. it is already well established that he is an incredibly violate individual. he is consistently scolded and reminded by obi-wan that he does not heed the jedi way, most often when he breaks the rules for his own self-interest. he does not have the emotional maturity, nor the self-restraint literally every person on the jedi council has, to be a proficient jedi master. he wants it, sure, but he has done nothing to earn it. yes, he’s won battles. yes, he has been an immense advantage to the republic. however, physical strength, power and victories in battle do not make someone more deserving for the title. his reaction to being denied shows just how unready he would be. it was exactly why they denied him the title in the first place. no, the jedi didn’t hate him. no, they weren’t out to get him. they were, rightfully, worried and skeptical because of his very explicit attachments to those around him, his recklessness. let’s not this whole thing was a ploy by palpatine to simply alienate anakin even more. instead of getting upset at the jedi council for rightfully not making anakin a jedi master, let’s remember they’re not his enemy. they’re his comrades. they’ve fought beside him, they try to teach him. i would think the man who horrifically groomed anakin, isolated him and used his genuine fears and extreme traumas as a way to serve his own agenda would be seen as the enemy. but, every time i look at a post relating to anakin and the jedi council, they’re the enemies. they denied him. they’re evil. they were holding him back. it’s just very odd.

[kanansdume]

It's continuously frustrating that this show REFUSES to condemn Anakin for the things he's done or even really explicitly call him out on them, and they even go so far as to basically decide none of it even MATTERED.

But all they can say about the Jedi is that they failed.

When asked what Anakin was like, all Huyang says is that he was "intense."

The worst Ahsoka says is that he was "more dangerous than anyone realized" and then two episodes later she's calling him a "good master" despite everything he did to her and the rest of the galaxy. She never ONCE condemns him for committing a genocide against the Jedi and hunting them down for over two decades. She never ONCE condemns him for enslaving the clones and betraying their loyalty and using them as weapons against the Jedi they loved. She never ONCE condemns him for trying to personally kill HER.

He jokes with her, he gets to say that he wants to protect her, he gets to guide her into choosing to live, he makes recordings for her that she still uses years later. Anakin gets to be "more" than just his failures.

But the Jedi, somehow, do not. The Jedi are ONLY EVER their failures. Ahsoka never mentions them otherwise, she never remembers them fondly at all, she has no stories or connections about any of the other Jedi, she constantly disregards Jedi protcols as foolish and ridiculous at best.

The best thing they can say about the Jedi is that the "idea of them" had merit. But Anakin gets to be a GENUINELY good Jedi Master, more than just a good IDEA.

And this just feels like the WORST of double standards to me.

[ankahikoibaat]

my two sentence pithy hopepunk post escaped containment - you never can predict what will! - and it was obviously never going to encompass the whole spectrum of story possibilities hopepunk obviously like, omg, people in the notes. but i reiterate!

Star Wars is hopepunk! not grimdark!

it doesn't mean there's not darkness or evil or bad in the stories or genre, but ultimately it's about the triumph of good or the possibility thereof!

personally, i find the focus on stories in the fascist government point of view loses that - and are honestly a drain - and I stand by that, but also, stop defining morally gray at me people! i do know the meaning even if i'm not writing out the damn definition!

also, morally gray does not automatically mean more interesting or more nuanced! (anyone saying that can fight me.) (i'm a wuss and too chronically ill for this so not really.)

choosing to be good, to do good in a world of increasing darkness and evil and selfishness is a fucking compelling story, and it can be handled with such complexity and delicacy if someone actually gives a shit and doesn't go "good vs evil is boring" automatically!

[sonic-fairyspell]

I find it a bit concerning how so many people think that Anakin "balanced" Force by killing a majority of the Jedi.... ... cause like that so called "balance" meant plunging the Galaxy into Darkness, there's not a lot of Good in the galaxy at that point, a fascist tyrannical dictatorship rose into power, and was run by two of the worst people ever.... and the defeat of said dictatorship and the two horrible people was seen as a very good thing.

So....

[marveltaughtmetoread]

The part that messes with me the most about the Jedi's approach to Anakin their complaint that he was too old

If a literal child is too old for your cult, I don't know what you're doing but it is nothing good

How can you expect me to believe that things you can only learn at a young age, when you don't have enough life experience to challenge it are in anyway good

How can you expect me to believe that a healthy mental state is one that requires you to have no other mindset, and no knowledge to challenge your teaching because they Jedi don't get to leave, unless they leave for good

They genuinely have no knowledge to question their experience, is this not terrifying

How can you expect me to believe this isn't indoctrination when it requires you to be so young as to be completely impressionable and at the mercy of adults who control everything around you

You are never too old and never too damaged to get better, not in the real world, not when it comes to sustainable ways to improve your mental wellbeing

Yes it is easier if your foundation is already built but you can still build a foundation from broken rocks, it will just take more effort

But somehow Anakin was both too old and too damaged for the Jedi

Something is wrong and I don't think it was with Anakin

[jonathanrogersartist]

Ok here's an olive-branch to some Jedi antis: I do think the rule of 'only train kids at a very young age' doesn't need to be that strict.

I think being trained as a Jedi should be open to anyone of any age, because I personally believe that any person at any stage of their life is capable of changing themselves and putting in the work to alter their attitudes.

It is more difficult when you've developed strong attachments, yes, but that shouldn't be an immediate disqualifier: the life of a Jedi is difficult no matter how old you are, and I even think that going into Jedi training with pre-existing life experiences that have shown you ways in which you fall short and need to improve with your values, emotional regulation, etc. makes a case for it being more effective than starting from a blank slate.

So, this is one aspect of Jedi ideology that I admit I'm not keen on...

[thelibrarian1895]

Mandalorians hate Jedi because...

"the Jedi are child stealers" NO

And again I say NO. I saw someone claim this and it absolutely infuriated me.

First point, THE JEDI ARE NOT CHILD STEALERS. That accusation is sithspit anti jedi propaganda. If a parent or guardian told the Jedi no, they didn't want their kid to be a Jedi, the Jedi respected that. They would, however, remove children from danger. But would you call a social worker who took children from environments where they were being molested, starved, beaten, or worse, a child stealer? No? Then don't call the Jedi child stealers for the same actions.

Second point, the average Mandalorian didn't really know or care too much about Jedi. In all honestly, most Mandalorians, like the rest of the galaxy, had no real idea about the difference between Jedi or other force sects like the nightsisters or general darksiders or even the sith except perhaps the color of their lightsabers. Some Mandalorians, like our beloved Din Djarin, knew nothing at all about Jedi and only cared when in became relevant and then did as much research as possible regarding the Jedi. Others, like Jango Fett, had very personal interactions with Jedi and formed their opinions of the Jedi as a whole based on those interactions with no further reason or desire to look further into the Jedi.

Third point, for Mandalorians who studied history or listened to old stories, they knew why the Mandalorians disliked the Jedi and it was for a very simple reason that they liked to avoid actively admitting. That reason? The Jedi kicked the shebs of the Mandalorian armies.

Twice.

Quite possibly there was another point when the Jedi suppressed the Mandalorian empire but there were two times for certain. Granted, the republic played a large part and the Jedi definitely didn't all interfere in one of those two conflicts, and actually actively avoided one of those two conflicts except in a few cases, and there were definitely some terrible things done, but the fact remains that when the Mandalorian empire attempted to expand and basically take over the galaxy, the Jedi were key to stopping this. And no, the Mandalorian empire was not a good thing. But more importantly, if you thought your ancestors or your cultures' armies were in the right and they were beaten, would you like the descendants of those who beat your side?

Fourth point, would you like the side that beat your side if they refused to give you a proper rematch? The Mandalorians who know anything about Jedi know that Jedi have access to all this power, plus generally have a super cool plasma sword, but the Jedi won't fight or they'll de-escalate or generally indulge in pacifistic behavior and we all know how Mandalorians feel about presumed pacifists, right? A Mandalorian denied a fight is often a frustrated Mandalorian. A Mandalorian who sees someone who has all this strength and power often doesn't understand why that person doesn't use that power, doesn't take revenge or slaughter their enemies or a million other things that they would do with such power. So those that don't understand choose to dislike. Why won't the Jedi fight them?! (please imagine the sentence immediately previous spoken in an extremely whiney tone of voice)

Fifth point, the Mandalorians frequently throughout history worked with the Sith or were on the Sith side of conflicts because of a lack of knowledge about force sects meant the Mandalorians didn't generally realize how absolutely stupid it is to side with the Sith but beyond that the Mandalorians often learned about the Jedi from the Sith. So the Mandalorians got stories from the Sith about the Jedi being weak and cold and blah, blah, blah stupid sith propaganda that I don't want to perpetuate. And those Mandalorians would then think themselves Jedi experts, because hadn't they learned about the Jedi from another Jedi? Granted, a dark Jedi but still a Jedi, right? So they'd tell other Mandalorians the propaganda and so the Mandalorians had that Sith skewed idea of the Jedi perpetuated throughout their history.

So the Mandalorians have their own reasons for not like the Jedi, which have NOTHING to do with child stealing, just as the Jedi have plenty of reasons to want to avoid the Mandalorians. Personally though I'm going to blame a lot of those reasons on both sides on the Sith and be grumpy about the Sith and the effectiveness of their propaganda.

And finally, I'm pretty sure at least a tiny bit of the animosity between Mandalorians and Jedi arose from the Mandalorians being jealous that the Jedi had lightsabers and they didn't. To be fair, I'm a little jealous too. Lightsabers are cool.

[jaydude1992]

Currently recalling someone who claimed that part of the backlash for The Acolyte came from Jedi stans angry that the Jedi weren't depicted as being flawless and perfect. I don't know the extent to which I can speak for anyone else, but I like to think we probably wouldn't be complaining as much if;

Headland didn't act like she was writing the show in accordance with Lucas's original intentions, only to make up flaws for the Jedi that never existed in the stuff he was involved with (seriously, the Jedi of Lucas's works are perfectly allowed to have emotions and feelings, and they DEFINITELY don't persecute other groups of Force-users just for existing).

We hadn't already endured decades of "jedi-critical"/"anti jedi" works by people whose criticisms of the Jedi come largely from them misinterpreting and/or deviating from Lucas's narrative.

The Sequel Trilogy hadn't denied us a Jedi Order rebuilt by Luke for the apparent sake of trying to replicate New Hope.

Personally, I say that by all means, give us Jedi that have flaws and aren't perfect. No-one enters the Jedi Order with the experience and wisdom necessary to be a Jedi Master, after all. But if you're going to claim your work to be a natural extension of Lucas's stuff - as opposed to a deviation from it - those flaws and imperfections have to be consistent with what we see in the latter.

[currentlyobsessedwithobi-wan]

It astounds me how people can hate the jedi council and the jedi code and about anything that make someone a Jedi yet still claim to love Obi-wan. What do you like about him then ?

It also astound me how some people say they actually like the jedi yet still think that they're responsible for Anakin's Fall.

Yes, that's all I wanted to say today.

I just think it's kind of funny.

[short-wooloo]

Even if all the lies and deliberated twisted misrepresentations of Mace Windu and the Jedi for the purpose of blaming them for Anakin were remotely accurate (THEY AREN'T, END OF DISCUSSION), Anakin's turn to the dark side and all his atrocities are still HIS FAULT, no one else's (and yes, that even includes Palpatine) , regardless of what they did

It was his choice

Anakin chose to turn to the dark side

Anakin chose to betray the Jedi and Republic

Anakin chose to overthrow democracy

Anakin chose to support fascism

Anakin chose to murder children en mass

Anakin chose to join a space nazi death cult

Anakin chose to murder Padme

No one made him do anything, no one could, nothing that anyone did(n't do) forced him to be a monster, it was all his choice, because no matter what a person supposedly suffers, they are the one who chooses what they do

And Anakin chose to be evil

[jedi-enthusiast]

Anakin and Ahsoka are “pick-me’s.”

Don’t worry, I’ll elaborate.

Anti-Jedi folks will always, always, lift these two assholes up as “better than all the rest of the Jedi.”

They’ll say that they have “empathy,” and “compassion,” and that they “care about the little people and not just the politicians in the Senate”—or whatever the fuck else they wanna say—all because Ahsoka and Anakin “Aren’t Like Other Jedi™️”

Now, theoretically, you could say the same thing about Qui-Gon, Kanan, Cal, etc. except for the fact that they themselves don’t believe that.

They loved being Jedi, they viewed themselves as being Jedi, they loved their fellow Jedi and the Order. They didn’t betray their family, they didn’t blame their family for their own fucking genocide or basically call their practices stupid because “look how much better I am teehee.”

Qui-Gon, Kanan, Cal…they loved the Order and being Jedi in a way that Ahsoka and Anakin didn’t.

Ahsoka’s change is partly Anakin’s fault, since she only changed after being his padawan, but that doesn’t change the fact that now she’s so entrenched in her own ignorance that she truly believes that the Jedi brought on their own genocide because they didn’t train non-Force-sensitives.

So yeah, Anakin and Ahsoka are massive pick-me’s and y’all are too.

[jedi-enthusiasm-blog]

On one side, Star Wars has an Order of space Magic monks whose main mission is fighting for peace and justice in the galaxy. On the other, it has what is basically space nazis.

The anti-Jedi pro-Sith crowd baffles and scares me in equal messure.