#anti greg and tamara

[lovecanbesostrange]

OUaT Appreciation Week 2024

Day 6: Storyline That Never Was/What If

I swear OUaT makes the list if I'm asked my Top 10 fav tv shows. Yet my laundry list of what I'd like to change is long. My biggest wish for where things should have gone down a different path though is still in Season 2 with Greg and Tamara. They deserved a better storyline and especially a better conclusion. It's not so much that I hate what actually happens in Neverland, I just wish they could have done something else first and not connect all of it.

In short: Anti-Magical outside force threatens Storybrooke

We see that even in our world without magic, magic has left little impacts here and there. We do have the story of Greg and how his father died. We get to meet the Dragon. Now give Tamara a better backstory that connects her to another awful magic encounter and let there be an actual wider society of anti-magic people. We can get more of August's travels, and a bit more of what Neal did, because of them have a hand in this too, even if it's just telling stories while drunk.

This is after Cora's death, when tensions between Regina and Mary Margaret (who I will refer to as Snow) are at a new high. Talking about how to deal with this is a wonderful addition to this. Because Snow and her very heroic family would want some nice and uneventful solution. Meanwhile Regina is more pragmatic and willing to get her hands dirty again.

We have a set-up for a rift in two episodes prior. In The Outsider Leroy leads the charge to ask to get back to the EF. Because what if outsiders come in? And In The Name of The Brother he advocates for maybe letting that stranger, Greg, die, because this could be bad. At first he mentions Regina as a threat herself (because they think she killed Archie), but this could also lead to a strange new alliance when having to defend themselves. And for my very own entertainment this is a way to get something we deserved - Regina and Ruby teaming up. The Evil Queen with a wolf. They could have had so much fun with that. Just for a bit.

Lifting the curse was one thing, bringing (back) magic another and it could have explored some consequences and how to balance these worlds within the town. (Remember, they are both.) This shouldn't have drifted into a Peter Pan plot, there was too much potential to shake things up on its own. And a way for forcing Regina to position herself as the one person who lived as mayor for 28 years and maybe holds a few sentimental feelings for this darn town.

Also just Greg and Tamara going out in a blaze of glory at least. There could also be more to do for the dwarves, where each has to decide where they stand. All with this threat of what they stand to lose by crossing the town line.

[happy-emmdings]

Sooo how exactly did Peter Pan recruit Greg and Tamara and then how did he communicate with them? Because I started picturing Pan��s shadow flying into the real world to sit behind a computer and start posting conspiracy theories and sending out e-mails with orders to his little anti-magic fanatics cult.

Everytime Greg and Tamara received “orders” from the “home office” or whatever was it just a shadowy guy sitting menacingly behind a computer in a public library e-mailing about magic diamonds of destruction?

[kazoosandfannypacks]

"Wishing it Wasn't" by kazoosandfannypacks

Chapter 13/18: The Showdown Pairing: CaptainSwan Rating: General Word Count: (1K/19.5K) Summary: Season 2 Canon Divergence: When Neal tells Emma he has a fiancée, she claims to have a new boyfriend of her own, and blurts out the first fairytale name she can think of: Captain Hook. Killian agrees to this ruse, but when feelings grow between the two, will the con be more than they can handle? Chapter Summary: Killian and Emma attempt to catch Greg and Tamara and bring them into custody, but a wrench is thrown in their plans when David brings backup. Tags: season 2, canon divergence, gun violence in later chapters, angst with a happy ending, fake dating, mild character death, mildly anti neal Author's notes: >:} Taglist: @zahara @kmomof4 @jonesfandomfanatic @booksteaandtoomuchtv @jrob64 @tiganasummertree @anmylica @teamhook @undercaffinatednightmare @gingerchangeling @lonelyspectator @caught-in-the-filter @ultraluckycatnd @cs-rylie @pirateprincessofpizza @pawshapedheart [if you'd like to be added to or removed from this list, hmu in my dms or askbox!]

Also on Ao3!

 Emma and Killian stood across from the warehouse, just out of sight.

 "Are you sure you want to do this?" Killian asked.

 "Absolutely." Emma said. "If there's something bad going down here, it's my duty to stop it."

 "Just be careful, love." Killian said. "She's a dangerous one, and once she finds out we're onto her…"

 "I'm always careful."

 "Then, right this way."

 They entered the cannery together, Emma clutching her gun in both hands but hoping she wouldn't need to use it. All she needed to do was find Tamara and Greg and bring them into the sheriff's station for questioning- and she hoped things wouldn't get too messy.

 Emma followed Killian's lead through the warehouse, hoping her trust in him wasn't misplaced. He held up a hand as they got to a door and she froze, hearing voices in the next room over.

 "Are you sure it was wise to trust the pirate?"

 "Relax, Greg. He wants his revenge just as much as we want this. He'll come through."

 "He'd better. I need to know."

 Emma and Killian's eyes caught each other one last time. Killian nodded, and put a finger to his lip, reminding her to wait quietly until the opportune moment. She nodded in return, and he left for the room they were in.

 "Good news." Emma heard Killian's unmistakable accent lilting through the walls. "The Queen is with our reach."

 "You've got her?"

 Emma picked up a crowbar off the floor.

 "I will have her. She's arranged to meet me at the library; there's something there she needs, and she's convinced I can help her."

 "Then it's all falling into place."

 "Aye. Storybrooke is soon to be history."

 What she overheard told her she wasn't wrong about Killian this time- Tamara and Greg were in league, and they were dead set on destroying her town.

 Just then, there was a sound on the other side of the building, like that of a door loudly opening.

 "What was that?"

 "Were you followed?"

 "I didn't think I was, but I could be wrong. They must've used the back door to try to get the jump on us."

 "Well, let's not let them get it."

 Emma ducked around the corner, hearing Hook's footsteps close behind her. He ran past her, and she waited until the following footfalls were right next to her- then turned suddenly, crowbar held out above her head.

 She heard a loud thud and looked down to see Greg unconscious on the ground.

 "One down." Emma thought. She stepped into the next hallway and saw Tamara stopped dead in her tracks.

 "Emma!" Tamara said in her usual feigned singsong voice. "I'm so glad you're here. This man tried to…"

 Emma didn't lower her makeshift weapon. "Don't play dumb, Tamara." Emma said. I know you're in on this."

 "I don't know what you mean!" Tamara said. "This man…"

 Emma stepped over him. "This man is your partner. I don't know what you think you're doing…."

 "Running!" Tamara said. Before Emma could chase after her, she threw something down on the ground that filled the hallway with smoke.

 Emma turned around to see Killian coming back behind her and threw him a pair of handcuffs.

 "I'm going after Tamara!"

 Killian caught the cuffs on his hook.

 "Good luck, Swan!"

 She looked over her shoulder as he walked towards Greg with the handcuffs, then covered her face and ran through the smoke.

 At the end of the hallway, she saw her dad, waiting for her just like she'd planned, just like she'd arranged when she called him in as backup, and she saw Tamara as well, as per the plan.

 But what she'd planned on was her dad to have her in custody. Instead she saw Tamara in Neal's arms.

 "What are you doing here?" Emma asked. "Get away from her!"

 "When your dad got a call and said you needed help, I happened to be nearby and thought I'd help." Neal said, "and it's a good thing I did. What's gotten into you?"

 Emma hadn't mentioned Tamara when she called her dad for backup, at risk of looking like a jealous ex, but after chasing Neal's fianceé down the hallway with a crowbar without any kind of forewarning, she realized in hindsight it was probably a bad choice.

 "She brought me here to attack me." Tamara whimpered. "She said I don't deserve you and called me an intruder."

 Now Emma wasn't thankful Neal didn't have her superpower, because that was the most bogus sob story she'd ever heard- but he was eating it up like a hot slice of New York pizza.

 "She's trying to destroy Storybrooke." Emma said. "I know I sound crazy- and I'll admit, I probably look it, but you have to believe me. She's trying to destroy magic, and she's gonna destroy this town to do it."

 "What's she talking about?" Tamara wept into Neal's shoulder. "Why does she keep talking about magic?"

 "You sicken me." Neal said. "Imagine, inventing this entire messed up narrative in your head- all for what? What ever happened to not being jealous?"

 "I'm not jealous, Neal." Emma said. "Tamara is bad news. You have to trust me." But in his eyes, she saw no compassion, so she turned in despair to her father. "Dad?"

 "Now, Emma," he said. "I'm sure we can get this all worked out. You've been under a lot of stress this past week, but if you just put down that crowbar, I'm sure…."

 "You don't believe me either?" Emma asked.

 "I want to." David said. "But I still think we might be rushing…."

 "You don't believe me!" Emma said. "None of you believe me!" She backed towards the hallway she'd come from, unsure what to do, but running out of options. Her dad, who she'd trusted enough to tell about her desperate fake boyfriend plot, thought she was insane, and the man she'd once trusted enough to go to jail for thought she was a monster. With nowhere to turn, she gripped the crowbar tighter in her hand, but reminded herself as well of the gun strapped to her side. She was unsure what she'd do if any of them tried to stop her, but she knew it was her job to protect the town, no matter what.

[themattress]

OUAT Observation

In retrospect, Season 2 was a Sophomore Slump that Once Upon a Time was never truly able to recover from, despite all of Season 3′s best efforts. However, while the show would certainly get worse than how it was in Season 2, there’s still a fascinating uniqueness to how it went off the rails. This is pretty much the only season (other than the final one due to the sudden cancellation) where I feel they had a road map going into it that they just trashed.

For those who don’t know what I mean, it’s been confirmed that with each season renewal there is a session between the writers where the new season’s road map is created, which is then utilized when they reconvene that Summer to actually start writing the season. And the road map for Season 2 was clearly going smoothly for its first 6 episodes; everything felt tight and naturally flowing. But then we hit “Child of the Moon”, where not only did the requisite centric for new season regular Megan Ory and her Red/Ruby character get forcibly cobbled together with the teased Albert Spencer plotline, but a development was made that ensured Emma and Snow’s quest in the Enchanted Forest would come to its conclusion two episodes later, in time for the Winter break. I highly doubt this was originally planned; it feels like the idea going into Season 2 was for that quest to end closer to the middle of the season, with the discovery of Baelfire/Neal in Manhattan occurring closer to the climax...after all, the season opened with a sequence all about him in that part of New York City. Just as Season 1 opened with the Curse being cast and ended with the Curse being broken, Season 2 was to open with Neal as the focus and end with him as the focus. And, well, it still does...kind of.

After this alteration, the season was on track to have Neal found in the middle of the season, and it would conclude either with a battle against Cora or against Regina who spirals out of control following Cora’s death. After all, before “Manhattan”, the focus was still on the threat Cora posed, especially now that Regina had joined up with her, and it was still continuing focus on plotlines and characters the season had set up (Hook and Smee, Mulan and Philip, Red/Ruby, Dr. Frankenstein and his monsterified brother, Anton/Tiny the Giant, all of the core characters’ personal arcs, etc.), plus threads that could be pursued in the following season (Emma’s magic, Snow and Charming’s disagreement on whether to stay in Storybrooke or not, Belle’s amnesia, Greg Mendell, etc.) But it was at the time of making “Manhattan” that a bombshell dropped: A&E, perhaps due to their usage of Hook and Smee being met with acclaim, were granted full rights to use everything else from Peter Pan. And because they had a passion for that property and the ideas they had for it, they just burned the season’s road map altogether and redirected it toward ending with everyone going off to Neverland.

So many decisions made were centered around this choice: the removal of the scene with Rumple’s father in “Manhattan” since their plans for that character immediately changed, the whole “the boy will be your undoing” prophecy being geared specifically toward the Neverland situation, Neal knowing Hook and it being set up that he was a Lost Boy in Neverland, Neal’s fiancée Tamara being introduced to be the “Her” that Greg Mendell was in touch with and revelation that they’re anti-magic activists unknowingly working for Peter Pan, and literally every single plot thread that had no place in the Neverland story either being dropped altogether (Red/Ruby, the Frankenstein stuff, Emma further awakening her magic powers, and any on-screen resolution to restoring Philip’s soul) or wrapped up as hastily and anticlimactically as possible (the darkness in Snow’s heart, August’s situation, the magic beans, Belle’s memory loss and new cursed identity, and Regina’s status as the villain).

Because of this rush, there wasn’t enough time to properly think through or flesh out a lot of the story decisions being made, which - along with A&E’s skewed morality - made “Welcome to Storybrooke” through “The Evil Queen” such an aimless, unpleasant slog to sit through. Another consequence is that one of the writers who had been there since the beginning, Ian Goldberg, jumped ship, clearly more interested in working with the setting and characters the show already had and resenting the sudden directional shift A&E had forced upon everyone.

Despite all of this, I want to stress that everyone involved was still trying the best that they could which still was able to shine through (ex: “Welcome to Storybrooke has some chillingly good direction, music and acting, and even in the moments it’s not intentionally trying to be “Lacey” is a highly funny episode, as are parts of “The Evil Queen”.) And as much as it pains me to admit, A&E were totally justified in wanting to get to Neverland ASAP, since the Neverland Saga ended up providing so many things the show and its characters were in desperate need of, the dark take on the Peter Pan story was very clever and interesting, and doing it right then allowed them to cast Robbie Kay as Peter Pan while he was still the right age for it, and he gave one of the greatest villainous performances in the entire series.

In the end, Season 2 and its messy storyline is what it is. Not entirely good, not entirely bad, but certainly entirely interesting and something that I look back on more fondly overtime.

[malreginamills]

My Take OUAT Villains Part 1

Regina - An intimidating personality with softer side and capability of empathy and selflessness . She was a fine mom before Henry started to see that she was a mean boss of the town . Then she became more strict with him BUT when fairytale stuff came to play , she became a  bad parent and she almost became her mom when her magic returned before she realised that she has done too much evil  .  He was not a good son either . As EQ , she was a  feared villain with max body count ONSCREEN not OFFSCREEN . I assume that there may be only few who outdid her .  She has a life full of crap and is a pawn of others all the time before she  came back to being a hero . She is a better hero than Emma and as good as Snowing .  She is only villain who used to be a hero .Regina as a hero is even more dangerous adversary than EQ . Unlike other villains , she and Rumple did true to resist temptation for evil  until Rumple himself made things worse . As a villain , she is delusional . She is  the most scary of them all but there can be villains as bad as her or WORSE  . She has crossed many lines BUT if there are some lines she won’t cross . I doubt she would like to have a child with David to piss Snow .

Rumple - A complicated guy whose favorite passtime is creating villains out of his students . He was a coward BUT he was also a father . He is incredibly selfish and makes big plans  when he can achieve his goal by smaller plans as well , a trait also seen in his students . He was a teacher of Regina for a longer time and made sure of the fact that she became a monster . WEmmaonce said about WRumple that he may be razing villages so , it is safe to say WRumple did stuff like that in the past since I doubt he would be razing villages in lockup  for 30 years . If WRumple did that so , it means real Rumple also did it . I doubt Rumple raped people BUT he  tricked them  . I think he stopped mass murder when  Belle was around but continued with being a trickster  and mastermind . He was relatively saner than Regina sometimes since he used brains more than she did as a villain . As a hero Regina was the saner one .  I think that Charmings were too nice to him in S2 and too mean to Regina in S2 . In S4 , they were really nasty to him BUT they were not heroes nor villains that season . He became likeable in S6B AND S7 . He did have lesser pain than Regina since spinsters were actually  nice guardians  to him and he was not always that much troubled  and tortured

Cora- Deliciously evil woman who cares for her daughter BUT her morals warped with Rumple's shadiness is what  is really what turned Regina evil . She made her daughter's life way worse than hers and Rumple's . She scared the hell out of me BUT I was sad when she died . UW Cora was more likeable .  I remember her as a redeemed villain than a hero.  She was more cunning than Regina and as cunning than Rumple . If she lived longer than Rumple , she would have been worse .  Also S3 shows her daughter Regina as her own antihesis .  She is literally heartless and sees love as weakness . Voldemort anyone ?

Hook - He was fine in S2 and WHook was likeable in S7 BUT from S3-7 , org Hook was all about Emma and CS . He lived longer than Regina , Cora and Zelena so , he should be as bad or worse BUT they whitewashed him SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH that even Snow's half heart had more darkness than that in S3 and in S6 . He himself talked about destroying villages in his song  and it shows that he is as bad as the Mills ladies . He likely was into rape and he had many one night stands that even Regina would be aghast .  Also his revenge is not justified or reasonable and it makes Cora look justified in hating Eva and Regina reasonable for hating Snow. It was he who separated Rumple and Milah and then in S5-6 he acted that Rumple was worse . Regina had really good reason to loathe Rumple  yet it never looked like that she was in mood to dance on his grave since she believed that life is precious .  He was also a homewrecker .  I think that he is worse than Rumple and can be as bad as Cora . His DO self showed us his true evilness . At least Regina would be trying to restrain herself from all that  DOness .   He did not take time to become a  full fledged villain as compared to Regina , Cora  and  Rumple .  It took him seconds to do that .  He was definitely done dirty in later seasons . I still love HOOK’ s past self more . 

Greg and Tamara - WHY ? They are foreigners  . They do not make sense to me  . Other villains have done way more evil  than they can dream of though they were almost  about to commit mass murder  BUT they are delusional .

Pan - IDK how many he killed, how much evil he did  BUT apparently , he  must have done a lot of that . Even Hook finds him demonaic and treacherous (although he did the same for Rumple ) . He was more twisted than all the others  mentioned before .  He utterly lacks any decency . He seems to be vain , self seeking  , power hungry  , immortality loving , uncaring , callous person  . If he succeeded , even Cora and Hook would  look  tame and humane .He is a  narcissist . Its like Disney Mother Gothel , Disney Ursula and our  Rumple together as one person . He was not only an evil power seeking overlord like Rumple and Cora but also he  was sick  and awful . He was both terrifying and terrible .  It was the best  culmination of fairytale evil with real life evil .

 Zelena - She makes me like Pan sometimes . At least Pan , Cora , Regina , Rumple and Hook did not start the system of brands . According to her  villainy needs to be branded like footwear and clothes . She  is  awfully competitive. In fandom she aroused a need of debating on who is more powerful . Every time she boasts  about being more powerful , she needs to be punched on her face . OMG Regina literally did that .  She branded herself as wicked and branded her sister as evil . She  does not terrify me BUT she is perhaps the most devious one of all . For someone who has undergone pain , she sounds like a spoilt brat  who whines like all the time . Everytime Regina is tired of her life problems , it looks like that she is in pain . In S2  Regina did a lot of whinning BUT she did not sound like this  sick brat . Regina did seem like someone who has undergone a lot of crap  .  I think that Zelena as a spoilt princess of Oz who was pissed about her true heritage  and ditched her adoptive family and killed them would make more sense and would do justice to her S3-5A personality . In 5B-7 , her softer side was apparently a bit forced and so was her new relationship with Regina but it was more true to her backstory  and her S3-5A self BUT it was like having Regina in earlier seasons back sometimes .  Her  WWW wardrobe should beas good as EQ’s . She should also have more hairstyles as WWW . I think that Zelena is also arrogant and narcissistic as compared to anyone else . She is incredibly self obsessed .   Regina was a mass murderer and rapist  . Rumple was self serving , selfish and power hungry  magic addict . Hook was a s*x addict  and a mass murderer   . Cora was a power loving mass murderer and a heartless .  Pan was relatively less self obsessed .  Quite many seem to come from a sadder place BUT she looks life she came from a posh life . Even young Snow and young Eva were not that bratty even though they are actual brats . Her rape of Robin to have a child with him to piss Regina shows how twisted she is . She also feels like an awkward addition since   she has never said the iconic villainous line , “LOVE IS WEAKNESS .”  She tries to outdo REGINA so , she must have tried to be more evil  and she must have killed even more since she is like Regina killed 1 guy , I would kill 10 . 

Ingrid - A short term villain but she was basically another Regina . She was also xenophobic towards muggles due to her bad experiences but later , she came to her senses . She was an unintentional succcessful attempt at making another  EQ and Cora . I wish she stayed longer . We also got a dark Elsa . Her subtelty  was awesome  . She was basically my fav beside Rumple , Regina and Cora .  I still wish if Regina was one of the people she wanted as a sister along with Emma since I do not want  Emma to be left behind either . She is way better than Zelena . I think she should be nicer to memory of Helga at least . 

Maleficent - We heard things about her more than we actually saw her do stuff .  Since Regina has more  some traits of Org Maleficent than her .  Kristen did a fine job with her and did make her scary in the way Mitchel made Ingrid scary . BUT I never saw her interrupting gatherings . Regina did that one .  I never saw her  plotting and being cruel . I never got the mistress of Evil . I never saw the woman she really was  when it came to Briar Rose. What was her foul temper like ? She was redeemed quickly .  I think I was better off with one redeemed Maleficent and now there were 2 of them  .  I wanted her evil at larger scale .  Maleficent did show some wickedness in S4 and it was awesome  BUT I think I preferred REGINA , CORA , HOOK , RUMPLE  , INGRID and even ZELENA level villainy  . Maleficent , these are the experts  .   Maleficent was  more a victim than a villain . Most of others were both . She may be a fine chracter BUT she was a poor villain . 

Ursula - Don’t ask . She hardly came in before she went away . 

Cruella- This is a good villain . Only born EVIL person besides Pan before 6*19 came up . She is better than Zelena and Maleficent  combined . I would love to see Cruella at her worst . I think this character demanded to be explored more .  She does not have standards at all . She tries her best to be the evilest  and can succeed . No wonder Issac had to stop her .  We can only imagine that her villainy would be the worst of worst . 

Issac - He is soo sick and awful . Can’t say anything more . He is rebirth of Greg and Tamara who are just meh . 

Dark Swan - What is this monstrosity ? I would prefer Zelena  and Maleficent over this . Apparently , I think “Black Swan” would be better  than what this name is  . And also , we all hoped that Emma would dabble into some Cora , Rumple , Regina , Past HOOK and Ingrid level EVIL and have a maniacal laugh .  We may have had EQ back . It would be good to see Snowing’s faces when Emma becomes New EQ . We wanted mental issues , rage problems , broken heart , betrayal problems , trust issues , past issues  driving her mad . Trying to convince WickedGoldenHookedQueen to join her in her delicious rampage with only Zelena joining her . Zelena the brat and Black Swan a psycho  teaming up  . BUT instead we got an unhealthily obsessed woman who got Robin Hood killed unintentionally . SHE MADE DARK HOOK .  She caused mayhem in Camelot and Storybrooke just because of Hook ? If it was really her , she would have let Hook die instead of making him DO .And after she stops being Dark Swan ,she drags her family to UW ? What is this ? High level character assasination . OH WAIT , Emma’s potential for darkness , her capacity to be Evil lies with Lily . Why they made her Darknessless . It makes sense that she is not that evil  . I think this should be resolved .  In my headcannon , she got the potential for evil back when she was sent to WR since In WR Cruella never left  so ,  WR Maleficent never lost Lily so , WR Emma still has darkness . If they continuede , we could have had Evil Emma back . For now , Dark Swan is terrible , not terrifying . I find her name Emma ironical now since she is not whole .

[hitchell-mope]

Ok look. I know. I understand. Greg and Tamara are awful. But would it really have been so bad to let Regina die?

[idkmybffjillyy]

ouat missed opportunity #608221t

in s2 tamara talks about magic being unholy and wanting to cleanse it from the world - it could have connected to in s7 and the humans gothel encounters that succeed in destroying all (?) magic. even though she says she wipes them all out there could be a anti-magic movement lingering throughout the land without magic's history from then on from any remaining (?) descendants - one of whom being tamara. and the existing movement was simply co-opted by pan as a front to find henry. greg already had exposure to magic from his time in storybrooke and motive from losing his dad, but we never got an explanation as to why tamara hates magic or even believes in its existence (prior to seeing the dragon) for that matter

[swanqueen-is-the-story]

What really pisses me off...

...apart from climate change deniers, racism, violence against women, capitalism, big pharma, war, the financial industrial complex, dated school systems, the 1% and a few other things... is that Once Upon a Time had so many metaphors about being gay!! What's up with that, uh?!

When antis talk about SQ shippers being delusional (they are the ones delusioned by heteronormativity), they usually only focus on the relationship between Emma and Regina. The show did so much more than the super obvious subtext between them, though.

If they hadn’t put so many references to CONVERSION THERAPY in the other stories, maybe Emma would have seemed less like a repressed queer woman. (*snorts* I mean, I doubt it, but...) It was always the totality of the show that sold the story of Emma and Regina in denial. And of their queerness (cause sometimes those clues are from them with other women than each other).

In season one, there was the forbidden love of Belle and Rumple - Rumple even says “I’m not a man” at one point. The implication is that he is a monster, but it works on another level too. Not being everything society expects a woman to be, actually makes many queer women feel like they are monsters.

And then look at what the Evil Queen tells Rumple!

Evil Queen: After her stay here – her association with you – no one would want her, of course. Her father shunned her, cut her off, shut her out.

Rumpelstiltskin: So, she needs…a home.

Evil Queen: He was cruel to her. He locked her in a tower and sent in clerics to cleanse her soul with scourges and flaying. After a while, she threw herself off the tower. She died.

Did you really fucking expect me not to think of the conservative father who sent a priest to his daughter’s room after finding her with another girl?!?! Really?? They sent in CLERICS TO CLEANSE her soul, for fuck's sake!! This is supposed to be a modern fairy tale, so we gotta look for things that are relevant to the present day. Religious conservatives still torture queer people today to get rid of their homosexuality. Then she commits suicide - keeping the suicide rates for LGBTQ+ people in mind...

Then in season 2, we get more of it. 

Tamara: Magic does not belong in this world. It's unholy. We're here to cleanse this land of it.

Tamara and Greg are super culty, the way they talk sounds religious. Just replace magic with queerness. On top of that, Regina’s being given electroshocks - very commonly used in conversion therapy. Again, how are our minds not supposed to go there?!

Father: You can let Sarah find you a husband or you can live in a hospital.

In OUAT in Wonderland, the same pattern happens. Alice can choose between finding a husband or being locked in a mental hospital (like, WTF?!?!?!). They’re afraid her delusional love will have a negative influence on her half-sister. Ummm... what else is it supposed to mean?! The episode is called “Who is Alice?” and knowing that Emma and Alice are heavily paralleled makes this even more like... Uh yeah, sure.

Mary Margaret: It may seem drastic, but it's the only way Emma can be sure never to hurt anyone again.

Regina: This could be the worst idea you've ever had, and you hired the wicked witch as your nanny.

David: Well, we actually think it'll be good for her. We... She could be normal.

Everyone remembers Emma’s well-meaning parents thinking being normal - getting rid of her magic - would be better for Emma. The naive homophobic and scared parent who thinks they’re doing what’s best for their child by sending them to conversion therapy.

Dorothy: The first time I visited Oz,, I was just a kid. I wasn’t here long, but when I went back to Kansas, I told my family what happened. They tried to have me committed.

Queer characters Dorothy and Ruby talk about people trying to have them committed and about being shunned by the village. Visiting Oz for the first time is really a metaphor for falling in love for the first time. Having a first queer experience. And people don’t believe it’s real love. Wonderland for Alice and Oz for Dorothy are the same metaphor.

D’uh.

Gideon: She ordered me to feel this pain if I resist again. 

Gideon is being tortured in order to change his natural instincts and inclinations. She has his heart - the thing we love with - and he is punished when he resists her reprogramming of his heart. Come on! That is clearly conversion therapy!

Girl: “Did you really think putting on a ball gown made you one of us? What’s under that dress? Scales? You are an abomination.”

In season 7, Gothel’s true nature is being destroyed by bullies using religious rhetoric. They ask what’s under her dress - a clear reference to gender.

...and Gothel has a female friend who hides that she’s like her out of self-preservation. Yeah, they did that.

Am I missing something? I’m pretty sure I am, there were so many thinly veiled metaphors about the queer experience. And no one talks about it!!!

All of this makes me extra angry because it means they actually did research and know some people have terrible experiences and all of us live with this threat... and yet they just exposed us all to bullying and never firmly backed us up against people calling us crazy. They clearly get it or they wouldn’t have written this, so WTF?!

[kootenaygoon]

So,

Tamara was unhappy, and everybody knew it. 

Upper management had reassigned her to sports, an entirely different gig than she had been originally hired for, and now they were squabbling with her over vacation time and other HR issues. She was six months into her gig, and had done some incredible work during that time, but she was becoming increasingly frustrated with Calvin. One particular habit she found intolerable was how he’d blurt out “You’re fired!”, Donald Trump-style, if you made any kind of mistake. It was like a nervous tic, a non-joke he deployed multiple times an hour, while hunched over his computer and snickering to himself. Then one afternoon he said it yet again, when it was only the three of us in the newsroom, and Tamara stood up from her computer chair and cleared her throat.

“You know what, Calvin? That’s inappropriate. I’ve been meaning to say something for months, but saying things like that creates a totally toxic work environment. Do you understand that? You actually have the power to fire us, we’re your employees, so making jokes like that … it’s just not funny,” she said.

“Well, it’s not like I mean it for real,” Calvin said, horrified. “You know that.”

“Whether you mean it or don’t mean it, it’s inappropriate. That’s not how you should be speaking to your reporters. We look to you for guidance, we don’t need you tearing us down.”

“I didn’t know, I was just quoting…”

“Yeah, you should know better, though. You’re the editor. And hearing you say ‘you’re fired’ over and over, do you know how that makes me feel? Like shit.”

My back was turned to Tamara, but I could hear the trembling emotion in her voice. This had been a long time coming. I struggled with the urge to spin and face them, but instead sat motionless while they squared off.

“If I had any idea you were so offended by it, I would’ve …”

“I shouldn’t have to tell you when things are offensive. It’s about being professional. And it’s not professional to make jokes about taking away somebody’s livelihood. That’s cruel. Do you get that? Do you understand what I’m saying to you?”

“Of course. I’ll stop right away. I’m sorry.”

“Thank you.”

There were little squabbles like this, but for the most part the Star was running smooth. The stories were light and predictable going into December, as we prepared our Year in Review issue. I interviewed Santa Claus, Nelson Brewing Company released a new pale ale, and one of the schools unveiled a mural in collaboration with the Sinixt. Tamara had become my primary ally, especially when it came to dealing with management drama, and a few times we hung out after work to gossip and strategize about the future. I wanted her to stick around. It was nice having some feminine energy in the newsroom, and it was hugely beneficial to be able to routinely get her perspective on everything from whether a particular bathing suit photo was suitable for print or whether our handling of a sexual assault story headline was sensitive enough or not. 

Tamara had done a lot of traveling, and had experience from a diverse array of jobs, and she put that knowledge to good use in her copy-editing. On the weekends Tamara would work with her dog Tana, her companion on her many outdoor adventures. She would come back with pictures, some that ended up in the Star (and above), of the various summits and vistas she’d discovered. She made me feel like a sedentary slug in comparison.

“You just let him have it, eh?” I asked, once we were alone in the newsroom. “I’ve never seen you so angry like that.”

“It’s been building up for a long time. He’s been really negatively affecting my mental health and I’m so sick of it. It’s not right.”

“Deep down inside I was like ‘go, Tamara! Preach!’”

She smiled. “Thanks, Will. I think it made me feel better, having you in the room. Just having your support, even if you didn’t say anything.”

“In my head I was like a little cheerleader,” I said, waving imaginary pom-poms. “Let’s go, Tamara! Let’s go!”

“I’ve just worked in so many male dominated industries and I’ve dealt with so many men like Calvin throughout my career, and I’m just done. I’m not putting up with anymore shitty, abusive behaviour. I’m going to speak out, every time. Because they need to be held accountable.”

“They?”

“Men.”

Regardless of how everyone was getting along with Calvin, we’d actually really gelled as a team following the municipal election. Production days were smoother, Greg was starting to take more hours, and we were reliably covering each of our beats. I took colourful photos at rehearsals for the local pantomime, and splashed them on the cover. There was a lot of laughter, a lot of newsroom banter, a lot of YouTube videos. There were some controversies, though, such as when we accidentally published a letter to the editor with virulent anti-Muslim rhetoric, and repeatedly Calvin found himself having closed-door meetings with members of the community incensed with him. I admired how he never dodged blame, always took the responsibility head on. The guy knew how to deliver a mea culpa. I think he could feel the tide turning on him in Nelson, and he knew pretty soon he was going to have to make a decision.

Before things could escalate any further, Calvin dropped the news: he’d taken a different gig across the province. His wife didn’t feel at home in Nelson and hated that it was far away from the rest of their family. They quickly packed up their house and put in Calvin’s two-week notice, with his wife leaving ahead. At first I was relieved at the news, even jubilant, but then I felt a bit sad as well. Though he was my favourite punching bag, and Paisley had to listen to me vent about him nearly every day, a genuine affection had developed between us. On his final night in town, he asked if I could help him move his last few pieces of furniture into the back of his truck. His house was in Fairview, within sight of the bridge, and seemed barely lived in. He stood in his driveway wearing a puffy leather jacket, looking morose, and squinted at the white evening sky.

“I feel like I just moved into this place,” he said. “I’m getting too old to be moving this much, you know?”

“It’s exhausting. That’s why I’m trying to stay put.”

“You should. You actually fit in around here, with all the weirdos and hippies.”

“I’m feeling like I can really build something here.”

“I believe that. The paper’s lucky to have you, now you just need to learn how to play nice with the Carpenters.”

“Right.”

“And remember: not every hill is worth dying on.”

Afterwards he drove us slowly around town, at one point parking to gaze up at the skeleton of the halfway-constructed Nelson Commons project. Eventually we headed to the Hume Hotel for a cheeseburger and a beer at Mike’s Place. I watched him slaughter his meal, sucking ketchup off his fingers, while we reminisced about all the stories we’d worked on together. He took long, healthy pulls from his beer and unleashed a rapturous belch. He seemed relieved to be leaving, but also scared. He’d been working as a journalist for over two decades, but things were evolving fast. Was there still a place for him in this industry? Would he end up finding the editor position he craved? Would he find some community where he belonged, where he could live long-term? I thought back to what George Binns had said, about how Nelson embraces some people and ejects others—was I seeing that happen in front of my eyes? And if I was still here, did that mean I’d been chosen to stay?

“We should get another beer,” Calvin said. “Do you want another beer? On me?”

“I’m in for one more.”

“Good man,” he said. “Who wants to drink alone?”

“Not me. If I go home shit-faced, though, I’ll hear about it from Paisley. She hates that.”

He grinned. “I like Paisley. You really lucked out there. She’s way over your head.”

“I think so.”

“So do the things she says, listen to the things she says, even if you disagree and even if you think she’s in the wrong, just do it. It’s not about your pride, it’s about the relationship. Does that make sense? In my relationship, it’s always been about learning when to swallow your pride and just let the other person win,” he said. “I know that’s not in your nature, though.”

“I’m as subtle as a hippopotamus, you mean?”

He laughed, wiping beer foam from his mouth with the back of his hand. “If I can make a marriage work, so can you. And I can tell she really loves you. Have you talked about kids?”

I nodded. “We even have a name picked out, for if we have a daughter.”

“What if you have a son?”

“We’re pretty convinced we’re going to have a daughter. I’ve always dreamed I’m going to have a daughter one day.”

“So what’s the name?”

I sipped my beer. “Cora.”

Calvin smiled, nodded. “Well, here’s to Cora then.”

We clinked glasses.

After another half an hour, I waved off the suggestion for another drink and stood up. My house was only a few blocks uphill, so I could walk. Calvin stood too, and came around the table to offer me a solid handshake. He blinked into my face and grimaced, well aware that this was probably the last time we’d see each other. I felt a strange mix of emotions, but mostly gratitude. We’d worked together for less than a year, but I knew I’d remember him for a long time.

“Thank you for everything, Calvin,” I said. “I mean that.”

“Take care of yourself, buddy.”

The Kootenay Goon

[violetfaust]

Hey, what are your top 3 (or 5, if you’re up for it) plots/character dynamics that would’ve made OUAT more interesting but that the writers either didn’t do/tried to do but screwed up royally

Wow, Nonny, I think this might be the best ask I’ve ever gotten (or tied with the one about Regina sending all the random guests at the Captain Swine wedding home with their hearts in favor baggies) and I’ve had some great ones.

And I was going to mull it over as usual and give it the respect it deserves but if I do that it’s going in my drafts and won’t be answered for weeks if ever and will be six thousand words long. So I’m just gonna half-ass it. [Editorial note: it has now been more than a week since I wrote those words and I have been half-assing it in draft all that time. And it STILL got long as hell. This is why no one sends me asks. :-( Sorry, Anon.]

Top 5 characters/character dynamic missed opportunities:

-- First and foremost forever, everything having to do with Neal. Papafire, Fire Believer, Floof Family, Swanfire, Neal/Regina coparenting...every plot since would have been improved, more organic and more interesting by adding Neal. Neal and Emma going back in time and BOTH meeting their parents? Rumple’s Rampage with Neal around--and Neal being the one to banish him? The Dark Two costarring the Dark One’s son? Which wouldn’t have ended with Emma being upstaged in her own story by her Stu boyfriend, but given her the sacrificial moment she deserved.

-- Regina’s love life: With all due respect to OQ, that should have ended the moment Marian was brought back, and Regina’s next and permanent love interest should have been a villain for her to bring back to the light. Hook, if he was kept around after Neverland (the both of them rebounding after Swanfire and Robin/Marian reunited, but growing into something more); Maleficent (written to be a little more bitter/less reformed); Jafar coming off OUATIW (bringing in Aladdin and Jasmine a few seasons earlier, perhaps in place of the Frozen nonsense); even Facilier with the same backstory (which seems to be a fling while she was the Evil Queen, with possibly much stronger feelings on his part that she didn’t return because revenge). 

...OR. If the decision was made to ditch the original story of Swanfire, the only organic alternative would have been to go forward with a full-on love story for Swan Queen. (Which to be honest is one of the few things that I think would have prevented the show’s ratings decline and failure.)

-- Ruby should have stayed a main character, and her romance should have been onscreen. I enjoyed the setup for Frankenwolf in S2, but Kitsowitz have been promising a LGBT couple since S3, when all we got was sad, lonely Mulan in love with her straight best friend. (Cutting-edge wlw content, circa 1925.) Ruby and Mulan coulda/shoulda had a long-term, medium-burn romance like Alice and Robin are getting now. Ruby’s friendships with Snow and Belle could also have been respected (and poor Belle wouldn’t have been used to prop her and her family’s abusers). Even after the show had gone down the Stu hole, there was a period when they could have gotten Meghan back (before she became the queen of the Hallmark Channel) and could have gone on from there.

-- The Sheep Boys BroTP should never have been abandoned--especially so that Charming could play sidekick and patsy to a toxic misogynist pirate who never learned from him. Charming and Hook together were basically two frat boys glorifying traditional masculinity (with Hook being the darker, toxic side and again, never changing through learning anything from David). Rumple and Charming were incredibly different, but they had the commonality of putting their wives and families above everything else in the world. Exploring the different worldviews they came even with that common goal could have been fascinating, and expanded both characters.

-- And, of course, probably most of all: Rumbelle, and Belle’s other relationships. Like, I can’t even begin...there are SO many missed opportunities and lost chances with them--beginning even back in S2. What if they’d kept Lacey for more than two episodes and let her play a part in the main story? (I’ll never get over the hilarious visual of Lacey in Neverland.) But overall...just...not piling on stupid, needless, often OOC conflict without any payoff for three or four seasons. Not to say have them always be in perfect accord like Snowing, or a codependent mess like CY, in which Belle kept brushing off any of Rumple’s wrongdoings. But let them work out issues onscreen, let them fight together against outside threats like Hades, let them address their conflicts in ways that made sense in character rather than being excuses to prop a Stu or Sue. (Let’s not even discuss the constant teasing of the BatB TLK and the  ultimate utter pathetic anticlimax when it didn’t happen.) While I do think that canon Swan Queen is the only thing that could have definitely saved the ratings in later seasons, IMO a strong Rumbelle story that respected their characters and their story as Beauty and the Beast had a good chance of doing it as well. (Especially if Kitsowitz had had the brains to cash on on the live-action BatB hullablaoo.) But Kitsowitz were too small-minded and spiteful (and ABC too prejudiced and cowardly, I guess) to focus on their best romance.

(Honorary mentions to the Rumple/Regina frenemyship, which I cover below, and to poor Will Scarlet, who should have never been on the show if he wasn’t going to be more than a “soul-destroying” unneeded glitch in Rumbelle.)

Top 5 plot missed opportunities:

[OMG, Violet, you’re not done YET???]

-- The Anti-Magic Organization that Greg/Tamara supposedly worked for would have made a brilliant arc. Kitsowitz should have played that out before heading off to Neverland (it was obviously the plan because they didn’t expect the NL/PP perms situation to resolve so quickly).

-- My best crack theory: Hook found the author in Season 3B and had been using him to manipulate everyone ever since. Explaining Once Upon a Stu--and more important, getting out of it at the end of S4. https://violetfaust.tumblr.com/post/114245381966/what-if-someone-already-got-to-the-author

-- A S5b based on my second-best crack theory: https://violetfaust.tumblr.com/post/143427662086/things-that-absolutely-wont-happen-but-should Rumple and Belle try to get out of Hades’s clutches by working with Regina--who claims to be Rumple’s second-born child via Cora. We could have had so much juicy stuff exploring their past, what Rumple did to Regina, Rumple and Cora (it’s a travesty that they didn’t even have a passing encounter in the UW). It could have led into Emilie’s maternity leave when Hades discovered the truth and kidnapped Belle--which would have led to a 6A in which Rumple rescued Belle from some other dimension but found their child gone. And one of the plot points of 6A would have been Rumple working with the EQ not in some idiotic parody of a romance, but because she called in a favor.

-- BIG BAD FUCKING BLUE FAIRY. Enough said.

-- And then there’s the most destructive missed plot opportunity in the history of the show: Giving Rumple’s and Belle’s POVs in seasons 4 through 6. Given the reveals about the Dark Squad in S5, the most dramatic story this show ever had was Rumple’s battle against the Dark One (and his near-loss) in S4. A S4 that showed his POV of what was happening would have been epic--especially if it did not sideline Belle but allowed her to play a part in trying to save him at the end, culminating in their TLK that freed Rumple but unfortunately also let loose the Dark One, leading to it taking over Emma. Then S5 would have played out as it was advertised: the current Dark One vs. the only surviving former Dark One. Similarly, Belle’s actions in 6A caused nearly all the drama of 6B--and she wasn’t allowed to participate in it at all. 

Honorable mention to not including Belle in the Mulan/Ruby/Merida adventure in S5--a one-off that included three of her friends versus her enemy and could have really benefited from having, you know, a MEMBER OF THE MAIN CAST involved in the episode. 

[lovecanbesostrange]

vidder: NoPlaceLikeStoryBrooke song: You and Me by You+Me fandom: Once upon a Time ship: Red Beauty

[kazoosandfannypacks]

"Wishing it Wasn't" by kazoosandfannypacks

Chapter 16/18: Waiting Room Confessions Pairing: CaptainSwan Rating: Teen (for gun violence in earlier chapters) Word Count: (1.1K/19.5K) Summary: Season 2 Canon Divergence: When Neal tells Emma he has a fiancée, she claims to have a new boyfriend of her own, and blurts out the first fairytale name she can think of: Captain Hook. Killian agrees to this ruse, but when feelings grow between the two, will the con be more than they can handle? Chapter Summary: Emma talks with her family and Neal, leading to her coming clean about the fake relationship. Tags: season 2, canon divergence, gun violence in later chapters, angst with a happy ending, fake dating, mild character death, mildly anti neal Author's notes: >:} Taglist: @zahara @kmomof4 @jonesfandomfanatic @booksteaandtoomuchtv @jrob64 @tiganasummertree @anmylica @teamhook @undercaffinatednightmare @gingerchangeling @lonelyspectator @caught-in-the-filter @ultraluckycatnd @cs-rylie @pirateprincessofpizza @pawshapedheart  [if you'd like to be added to or removed from this list, hmu in my dms or askbox!]

Also on Ao3!

 Maybe the only reason Emma had gone along with Killian in the "big car with the noisy lights on top" was so that she could fill out paperwork or give a detailed report on what happened. Maybe she wanted her due accolades at how well her magic had saved him- how well she'd saved him. Or maybe she just took pity on him- he had almost died, after all.

 Either way, Killian was glad for her company. She had a light about her that almost felt warm, like sitting around a campfire with your crew after a long day's hunt. He tried not to stare at her too much, tried to tell himself he was just looking at her to take heart against all the things that felt so different. The ride was a rough one, and so fast, and he lay on a stretcher. The car was filled with all manner of shiny and modern and beeping equipment, most of it Killian couldn't begin to understand the purpose of- and he knew the hospital would be even brighter, and scarier- certainly not scary to such an infamous pirate as himself, but certainly much more disorienting.

 He looked up at Emma, the Savior- his savior- as she finished speaking with a nurse and took a seat next to him.

 He couldn't think of anything to say to her besides the "thank you" he'd already given her, but he felt like he didn't need to, didn't need to say anything at all. Instead, he simply held out his hand to her, almost by instinct, like letting out an anchor- an anchor that snagged itself, as it should, in her hand.

 She took his hand and gently squeezed it, not once, not twice, but three times- and something in that gesture felt warm, felt safe- like somehow he wasn't alone.

 Emma sat in the waiting room, filling out as much as she could of the papers she was handed, meanwhile looking over her shoulder through his room's window every few moments to see if he'd be alright.

 She'd gotten a text from her dad a little bit ago, one that said he and Neal had gotten Tamara, and had gone back for Greg, and now both were safely in custody in the Storybrooke jail- and now her family was on their way to check in.

 She tried to make sure all the details of Hook's injury, as well as what she'd done to heal him were documented as best as she knew- which wasn't great, since she knew nothing of magic or medicine- but the doctors could figure out the technical jargon themselves.

 She glanced back again at Killian's room- he almost seemed like he was laughing at something Doctor Whale had said- then looked back down at the papers in front of her.

 "Emma!"

 She looked up to see Mary Margaret and Henry, David and Neal close behind, and she got up to talk to them. Mary Margaret threw her arms around Emma, and Henry joined in.

 "Is he gonna be okay?" David asked.

 Emma let go of her mom and looked back at the room- the same room David had been in when she first came to Storybrooke. As she did, Whale walked out its door, looking at some clipboards. He looked up at Emma and her family.

 "He's gonna be just fine." Whale said, "Thanks to you."

 "Emma?" Mary Margaret asked.

 "If hospitals across the country had people like Emma, they'd be in much better shape." Whale shook Emma's hand, then moved on to make his rounds.

 "Emma, what did you do?" Mary Margaret asked.

 "It's nothing." Emma said. "I just. I figured out how to use magic."

 "Magic?" Neal and Mary Margaret asked in unison.

 "I'm the Savior." Emma said. "Product of True Love. It's all in a day's work."

 "That's amazing!" Henry said. "What was it like?"

 Emma half laughed as she knelt in front of him so she could look right at him. "It felt like lightning and rainbows all at once, like I was holding fireworks- but quieter."

 "That's so cool!"

 Emma ruffled his hair. "You're right it was."

 David tapped Emma on the shoulder. "May I have a word, Emma?"

 "Yeah?" She stepped off to the other side of the room with him, expecting some kind of "okay now that you have magic you need to be careful it comes with a price" speech.

 Instead he said, "I'm so sorry. I should've believed in you."

 "It's alright." Emma said.

 "No it isn't." David said. "I should've listened to what you said, should've seen things for how they were- how you said they were- instead of how I thought they looked. I should've believed in my daughter."

 "I forgive you." Emma said, then gave David a hug. "And I understand. Once upon a time, it took me a while to believe in my kid too."

 She glanced over at Neal and Henry, and Neal walked over to her.

 "I'm proud of you." David told Emma, and gave her a hug.

 "Thanks." she said softly.

 David let go and walked away, giving Neal a pat on the shoulder as he walked by.

 "Can I talk to you too?" Neal asked.

 "Why?" Emma crossed her arms. "Gonna say sorry for not believing me too? I understand. You're forgiven."

 "That's not the only thing I need forgiveness for." Neal said. "I should've believed you about Tamara, but I also should've waited for you when I found out you were in Storybrooke. I never should've landed you in jail in the first place. I should've held out for Tallahassee, because it doesn't sound nearly as nice without you. I'm so sorry for everything I've ever done to you. Will you please forgive me?"

 He didn't deserve forgiveness, sure, but no one ever does.

 "I'll try my best to forgive you." Emma said.

 "And I hope you and Killian are really happy in your life together."

 Emma figured that if ever there was a time to come clean, it was now.

 "We're not together."

 "What?"

 "Killian and I," Emma said, "we're not dating, never were."

 "But you said…"

 "I said what I said because I was jealous. I told you I found someone else, because you found someone else, and I couldn't let you know that I cared." She bit her lip. "But I did care for you. I hadn't stopped loving you, even after all those years."

 "You know, I never stopped loving you either." Neal said. "I only told myself I did."

 "Really?"

 "I thought every day about how I never should've let you go."

 Even though he had abandoned her, he hadn't abandoned the thought of her. She did something she thought she'd never want to do again- she looked into his eyes, even just for a moment. Then he pulled her into a hug.

 "Tallahassee?" He whispered.

 But Emma didn't know what to say.

[dream-beyond-the-fantasy]

Tagged by: @jjohnson217

If you could change (or rather fix) the background and/or paternity of any five characters, who would they be?

Sam McCall - While I liked early Julexis, what the writers did to them pissed me off and turned me off of the couple.  Sam understandably kicked Julian out of her life, but has nothing to do with the rest of her Jerome relatives?  I liked her scenes with Ava when she was sick with toxoplasmosis.  She and Kiki interacted a lot and got along well when Sam dated Kiki’s dad Silas, but they don’t acknowledge the fact that they are cousins.  She doesn’t interact with Lucas or even babysit her baby brother Leo.  What was the purpose of making Julian Sam’s dad?

Franco - I hate this character for many reasons and the only time I liked him (as played by Roger Howarth) was when he and Nina were together pre-baby issue.  James Franco’s Franco was a fun psycho villain.  I hate all of his paternity rewrites.  First, he was Betsy Frank’s son.  Nope, he is Jason’s fraternal twin via Alan and Susan Moore.  Wrong, he is Heather Webber’s son by Scott, despite not looking like either one.  I like Roger Howarth, but he is miscast in this role.  I would rather Franco be Betsy Frank’s with the probably abusive creep Jim Harvey (who he resembles) rather than tarnish the Baldwins (Scott, Karen, Serena, Gail and Lee), even by association.

Nelle - There is so much wrong with this character.  If they were going to connect her to Carly, she should have been a Spencer relative, capitalizing on the fact that she previously played a younger version of Luke and Bobbie’s sister Pat, and not a Benson.  While in her early days, I liked that she was like a young Carly set on revenge.  They could have made her Carly’s daughter somehow, either from pre-Port Charles days in Florida (possibly from sleeping with Reese’s dad) or a previously unknown twin of Michael’s.  That way we wouldn’t have had to suffer through the train wreck that was Melle.  Or if they wanted her to be an original character, why not utilize the chemistry she had with Nina and reveal that she was Nina and Silas’ baby that was supposedly miscarried after what Madeline did?

Avery - Like many of you, I wish Avery was Morgan’s daughter.  It wouldn’t change much of her story.  Carly would definitely try and rig the paternity test.  Maybe we wouldn’t have suffered through more MorKiki and Ava wouldn’t have been indirectly responsible for Morgan’s death.

Griffin - I would make him Anna’s son with Duke, the child she supposedly miscarried when Olivia Jerome pushed her in the elevator.  In one of Olivia’s last scenes, she made an ominous remark about Griffin’s mother.  It would be amazing if she knew that Griffin was Anna’s and kept that secret out of revenge against the woman who “stole” Duke from her.  Plus, he is basically Anna’s son already with how protective and caring she is for him because he is Duke’s son.  Also, Robin and Emma already see him as a brother/uncle-like figure.  If Josh Madden, Erica Kane’s famous abortion, could be transplanted into her doctor’s wife as an embryo, why not the same treatment (in a good way) for Anna and Griffin?

****BONUS****  If we are stuck with Anna having a child with Faison, I would rather it not be the obvious path - Valentin lied about it being a girl and it will be Henrik/Peter August, who we know is Faison’s son and cohorts with Valentin.  I don’t mind Peter being Faison’s son and in league with Valentin, because we all knew the boy was shady af.  However, I would prefer if Anna did have another daughter and it was revealed to be Dr. Kim Nero.  She looks a lot like Anna.  It would give Tamara more story to work with and more avenues to take the character of Kim in.  Kim and Oscar would have more family (Henrik/Peter, Britt, Maxie’s baby, Robin, Emma, baby Noah, Alex Devane Marick, Gabriel Devane, Aidan Devane).

What five storylines would you rewrite?  And how?

Sam’s paternity/Port Charles re-visited - As I previously mentioned, I would change Sam’s paternity since she doesn’t utilize her Jerome heritage.  I would have made her Ryan Chamberlain’s daughter.  Ryan is Kevin’s dead psycho twin brother.  Ryan would still fit in with Alexis’ bad boy dating profile and it would make since that she would be a dead ringer for Livvie Locke.  I also would have kept Kevin as Livvie’s father since it was a disservice to Port Charles and its fans to rewrite such a story.  I would have kept the nods to Port Charles but they could have left out the supernatural elements, which were only brought into the later seasons of the show.  Port Charles did start out as a show about young doctors (including Scott’s daughter Karen Wexler) and nurses working at General Hospital, when the main soap went to more mob-related stories.  There were a lot of crossovers to begin with.  Also, there would be mention of Scott and Lucy’s adopted daughter Christina.

Nikolas’ storylines 2014-2016.  I’m not sure how I would write it, but Nikolas wouldn’t take over ELQ, be involved involved in “Jake Doe”/Drew/Jason drama, try to blackmail or kill Hayden, fake his death, or be killed by Valentin for Cassadine holdings.  I don’t mind Nik getting some dark Cassadine on, but don’t destroy his character like these years did.

Port Charles Mayoral Campaign of 2018.  I would have kept Laura as the anti-Charles Street development candidate (screw you, Frank!).  Olivia would have been in-character and struggling between supporting her husband Ned and fighting for the down-to-earth people living on Charles Street who are a lot like her Bensonhurst neighbors.  Laura would win, despite the dirty tricks pulled by Jim Harvey.  Ned would run a clean campaign.  Julian would run his bar and have little to do with the story.  Alexis would assist with Laura’s campaign, but otherwise stay out of politics and Charlie’s Pub.

There would be no Friz relationship.  Elizabeth would have dated Griffin instead (sorry, Grava).

Sonny wouldn’t have killed AJ.  While I enjoyed the distance between Michael and Sonny (as well as Carly) because of Sonny’s actions, it didn’t last long enough.  Sonny escaped the consequences yet again.  Also, there would be no Ava/Sonny sex on AJ’s grave, which would mean that Avery would have to be Morgan’s.  Michael would still have good relationships with all of his parents.  We would get to see AJ’s reactions to “Jake Doe” being “Jason” before finally revealed to be Jason’s twin Drew, as well as the real Jason being alive.  I would need all of Alan’s sons to reconcile their feelings toward each other.  AJ would be an attentive uncle to Jake, Danny, and Scout.

Three most annoying retcons in General Hospital history?

Franco’s crimes are a result of a brain tumor.  Such bullshit.

Anna willingly sleeping with Faison when she is a WSB trainee to get info and having his child, who is probably Henrik/Peter.  I may not have been alive when Robert, Anna, and Robin first came on in the 80s, but many fans have said that a flashback showed that Anna was a virgin when she first slept with Robert.  Writers, stop screwing with GH history.

Ignoring Sam’s relationships with Silas and Patrick in favor building up her relationship with Drew.  While I did like Siam, I did feel they were a rebound.  But Samtrick was a real relationship and it was going very well until Carly outed “Jake Doe” as “Jason”.  Sam was still her investigative, risk-taking self and a mom back then, compared to whoever she is now.  Yes, I feel like she would have went back to Jason and Patrick to Robin, in the end.

Favorite incarnations of characters who have been played by multiple actors?

Tamara Braun as Carly Benson Corinthos (I love all Carlys, except for Jennifer Bransford, but Tamara is my fave)

Kirsten Storms as Maxie Jones

Tyler Christopher as Nikolas Cassadine

Julie Marie Berman as Lulu Spencer-Falconeri

John Ingle as Edward Quartermaine

Constance Towers as Helena Cassadine

Aaron Refvem as Morgan Corinthos

both Sean Kanan and Billy Warlock as AJ Quartermaine

both Jonathan Jackson and Greg Vaughn as Lucky Spencer

both Dylan Cash and Chad Duell as Michael Corinthos III

tie between Emma & Sarah Smith, Kali Rodriguez, Lexi Ainsworth, and Lindsey Morgan as Kristina Corinthos-Davis (I’ve loved all of the girls who played Krissy since I started watching GH)

Five character deaths that destroyed you?

Georgie Jones

Emily Quartermaine

Alan Quartermaine

Lila McCall

Nathan West

Honorable Mentions: BJ Jones, Jason Morgan’s not-death, Sabrina Santiago, AJ Quartermaine 

If you could bring back any characters, which ones would they be?  And why?

Emily Quartermaine - pointless death for tragedy and ratings, she is a moral compass for many characters, need more Quartermaines, doctor

Nikolas Cassadine - part of me believes he is still alive, I need him to take back his inheritance and home from Valentin, need more Cassadines, need him to work things out with Britt (since he did far worse) or get back together with an alive Emily

Georgie Jones - pointless death for tragedy and ratings, moral compass for Maxie, Dillon’s OTL

Dillon Quartermaine: TPTB did the character, fans, and Robert Palmer Watkins dirty, need more Qs, more Crimson storylines, he could still be a filmmaker

Hayden Barnes - Elizabeth needs family in PC, need a resolution (and hopefully a reunion) for HayFinn, update on her and HayFinn baby, friendship/maternal relationship with Spencer, still needs to meet biodad Jeff and siblings Steve and Sarah

Lucky Spencer - need to build up the Spencer family, he needs to be (and be seen doing it) a father to all three of his boys, help rein in Lulu’s Spencer traits, help build up the PCPD, support and call out Elizabeth when she needs it, meet his niece Charlotte

Thomas “Tommy” Hardy Jr. - member of Hardy family, Elizabeth needs family in PC, doctor, brings in more diversity

Laura Spencer Collins - Lulu needs her mom’s guidance, she should be mayor, her other grandkids need her too, she needs to bring Spencer home, she and Kevin have barely been married before she left

Spencer Cassadine - he’s so much fun to watch, keeps Valentin in check, needs to reclaim his home and fortune, should reconcile with cousin Charlotte, we might actually see Liz’s kids if he is around, love his relationships with his extended family

Britt Westbourne - emotional support for mom Liesl after Nathan’s death, reconcile and potentially bond with Maxie and cousin Nina over loss of Nathan and love for Naxie baby, resolve things with Nikolas if he is alive, friendship/maternal relationship with Spencer, doctor, meet and have some sort of relationship with half-brother Henrik/Peter, friendship with Brad

Kristina Corinthos-Davis - need more Davis Girls, LGBTQ representation, missing out on stories regarding her families, reconcile with Alexis, potential for character growth

basically the whole Scorpio-Drake family (Robert, Robin, Patrick, Emma, baby Noah, Dr. Noah, and Dr. Matt Hunter) because they are one of my favorite families, doctors, Anna needs more family

more Quartermaines than those listed above for obvious reasons

What storylines would you like to see General Hospital tackle?

big event stories that we had 10-15 years ago that affected the whole community and characters (both contract and recurring) who don’t usually interact shared scenes

better representation of mental illness

more diversity

better LGBTQ representation and stories - utilize the characters they have and introduce Joss & Oscar’s friend

autism (Night Shift did a story with Jagger and his son Stone)

school shooting/gun control plots (for the younger characters) because of the ongoing relevance

If you watched any other ABC soaps (All My Children, One Life to Live, Port Charles, Ryan’s Hope, Loving, The City and I’m including SoapNet’s General Hospital: Night Shift), which characters (living at the time of the soap’s demise) would you bring to GH for a visit/story since they share the same universe?

Dr. David Hayward, All My Children - Anna’s ex-husband and father to her late daughter Leora, cardiologist/cardiac surgeon, a fun and dynamic villain to root for, has brought people back from the dead via Project Orpheus

Dr. Kyle Julian, General Hospital: Night Shift - doctor, adopted brother Leo was Maxie’s heart surgeon in 2007, LGBTQ representation, sweet and dorky character, potential boyfriend of Felix if he and Donny don’t work out

Oliver Fish, Dr. Kyle Lewis, and Sierra Fish, One Life to Live - Kish was a popular couple, LGBTQ representation, police officer and doctor, potential friends for Brad and Lucas especially in light of their adoption storyline

[lostdorothy]

THERE’S NO PLACE LIKE HOME   (   v   :   land of oz   ).

orphaned at the age of six after their parents were taken up by a twister   ,   dorothy    &   thomas gale were raised by their uncle henry    &   auntie em on a small farm in irving   ,   kansas.    dorothy was a playful but sweet child   ,   always seen running in the fields with her quieter   &   calmer twin brother   ,   whom dorothy had affectionately started calling toto.   with her  daydreaming   &   mischievous behavior   ,   she became quite a handful to keep track of.   she was known to wander off   ,   chasing after a stray german shepherd that roamed the fields.   the twins were nine when a twister took them to oz   &   their farmhouse landed on the wicked witch of the east.    locasta   ,   the good witch of the north   ,   pointed them in the direction of the emerald city   &   the wizard.   however   ,   even before they could begin their journey   ,   zelena came across the scene   ,   threatened dorothy for the silver slippers   ,   &   turned thomas into a dog.   after picking up three other companions   ,   meeting the wizard   ,   &   being captured by zelena   ,   dorothy   ,   in a fit of anger at the threat on her brother’s life   ,   splashed a bucket of hot water on zelena   ,   unknowingly   “   killing   ”   her.

the companions return to the emerald city where the wizard fulfills the end of his bargain in meaningful but not magical ways   ,   &   with the help of glinda   ,   the good witch of the south   ,   they  turn thomas back into a human   &   send the twins back home to kansas.   for a while   ,   oz was nothing more than a daydream   ,   but they soon found out it was as real as the farmhouse they lived in.

dorothy   &   thomas   (   who learns he can shift back   &   forth between his human   &   canon form   )   return numerous times to the land of oz   &   go on several adventures   ,   defeating other wicked witches   ,   wizards   ,   &   nome kings.   they   ,   along with their aunt   &   uncle   ,   move to oz after their farmhouse is forced to foreclose   &   begin living with princess ozma   ,   who has been placed as the rightful ruler of oz   (   after both the wizard   &   glinda mysteriously disappear   ).   dorothy    &   thomas are officially dubbed princess   &   prince of oz   ———   although   ,   dorothy much prefers  title of political liaison.   at some point   ,    dorothy discovers that zelena never truly died   &   goes to confront her.   however   ,   upon encountering zelena   ,   she finds the witch ready to take the scarecrow’s brain.   dorothy saves him as thomas provides distraction in dog form   ,   but zelena finds the three in the forest not long after   &   kills the scarecrow.   the twins are visibly distraught   &   return to ozma’s palace where dorothy breaks the sad news to their friends   ———   she has failed them.

when word gets out about something terrible coming to oz   ,   dorothy   ,   thomas   ,   &   her friends go to the enchanted forest to see what all the fuss is about.   upon meeting the snow white    &   company   ,   they learn of regina’s curse.   the tin woodman   &   cowardly lion return to oz to warn the others   ,   while dorothy   ,   thomas    ,   &    their aunt   &   uncle stay &   help the charmings.   the curse happens   &   dorothy becomes lily hugson   ,   future babysitter of one henry mills   ;   meanwhile   ,   thomas is reverted into toto  ,   lily’s pet german shepherd.

(   verse is set prior to season one of once upon a time   &   before the queen’s curse.   due to the fairy queen lurline’s anti-aging spell in oz   ,   dorothy    &   thomas’s physical age is around eighteen years old   ———   but the two are much older than that.   dorothy is officially a princess to the ozian people   ;   however   ,   she prefers her adventures   &   liaison business over the stuffy gowns   &   royal parties.   she does have magic   ,   as she is a witch.   thomas   ,   or better known as toto   ,   is her twin brother.   due to side effects from zelena’s curse on him   ,   he can shape-shift back   &   forth from his human form   &   his canine form.   ).

QUITE THE LITTLE ESCAPOLOGIST   (   v   :   season one   ).

twenty eight years later   ,   &   everyone in the town of storybrooke still has no memories of heir lives as fairytale characters   ,   &   lily hugson is no exception.   as the niece of emily   &   harold hugson   ,   lily  spends much of her time helping out at her uncle’s farmer’s market down on main street.   when she’s not working there or attending storybrooke high as a senior   (   for the twenty eighth time now   )   ,   lily babysits henry for the mayor.   most days   ,   she picks him up from his house   ,   &   they ride her bike to the bus stop   ,   where she drops him off every morning   &   picks him back up after school.   however   ,   when he runs away only to come back with his birth mother in tow   ,   lily   &   the rest of storybrooke are rattled at the changes that begin to occur around them.   somehow   ,   despite her gentle insistence that she is not dorothy gale from the wizard of oz   (   she only played her in the high school play   )   &   that her dog was just named after the infamous dog   (   &   wasn’t actually dorothy’s faithful canine companion   )   ,   lily   &   toto get roped into operation cobra.

(   verse is set during season one of once upon a time.   lily is unaware of her life as dorothy gale. without her magic   &   her memories   ,    lily has become henry’s babysitter   &   gets roped into operation cobra upon emma’s arrival in town.   while she appears eighteen  ,   lily is much older.   this is partially due to queen lurline’s anti-aging spell   ,    which prevented her from aging while in oz   ,   as well as due to regina’s curse which has stopped her aging for the last twenty-eight years.   thomas is stuck in his canine form   &   has been living the past twenty-eight years as lily’s pet german shepherd   ,   toto.   ).

&   THE   WALLS KEPT TUMBLING DOWN IN THE CITY THAT WE LOVE   (   v   :   season two   ).

it seems to come from nowhere   ———    one minute   ,   henry’s suffering from an unbreakable coma   &   the next   ,   magic’s flowing through the air   ,   henry’s awake   ,   &    lily has all her memories back.   after several moments of reassurance that henry’s okay    ,   lily lets her thoughts wander to her recovered memories   ,   to one piece of her past in particular   :   toto.   lily runs downtown in search of her brother   ,    finding him standing next to their aunt   &  uncle   ,   no longer in dog form.   one tearful hug between the four of them later   ,   lily is back into the swing of full babysitter mode.   when emma   &  mary margaret are taken away by a magic portal   ,   lily helps david take care of henry in their absence   ;   however   ,   while david   &    the rest of town are worried about regina   &    the magical barrier around storybrooke   ,   lily has a problem of her own   ———   she is no longer confident in her magic   &   cannot even get her slippers to work.   this problem eventually causes lily to seek out regina’s help in regaining her magic   ,   &   with the promise to help henry   &   the others see that regina is not all bad   ,    regina concedes   &   begins re-teaching lily magic   ,   &   the two begin to bond.

(   verse is set during season two of once upon a time.   lily has all her memories back but has been unable to get her magic to work  ,   &   therefore her slippers.   as she helps david take care of henry while emma   &   mary margaret are lost in the enchanted forest   ,   she also gains help from regina   ,   who begins re-teaching lily how to use magic.   meanwhile   ,   lily   &   ruby help thomas adjust to being human again in the 21st century.   )

GRABBED MY HAND   &   PUSHED ME DOWN   ,   TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH   (   v   :   season three a   ).

jumping into the portal after greg   &   tamara might not have been her smartest idea,    but there was no way lily was willing to let henry get taken without anyone there to look after him.   following henry throughout neverland   ,   lily manages to attract pan’s attention.   despite having gained back some of her magic from her lessons with regina   ,   lily tries several times to get her slippers to work   &   get henry off the island   ,   but she has no such luck.   in the end   ,   the small amount of confidence she had regained with her magic seems further smushed as she feels she has let pan walk all over her   &   her feelings.   however   ,   her time on neverland sticks with her   (   &   later on allows her to grow into a more confident individual   ).

(   verse is set during season three a of once upon a time.   lily has followed greg   ,   tamara   ,   &   henry into the portal to neverland.   she is at the lost boy camp during most of the verse   ,   trying to find a way to get henry home.   ).

I’M LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO START   ,   &   EVERYTHING FEELS SO DIFFERENT NOW   (   v   :   the missing year   ).

in the process of being rewritten.

(   verse is set during the missing year between season three a   &   season three b of once upon a time.   )

WHEN YOU COME OUT OF THE STORM   ,   YOU  WON’T BE THE SAME PERSON WHO WALKED IN   (   v   :   season three b   ).

in the process of being rewritten.

(   verse is set during season three b of once upon a time.   )

THE COLD NEVER BOTHERED ME ANYWAY  (   v   :   season four a   ).

in the process of being rewritten.

SEVEN DEVILS ALL AROUND YOU.   SEVEN DEVILS IN YOUR HOUSE   (   v   :   season four b   ).

in the process of being rewritten.

WHEN THE DARKNESS HAS ROBBED YOU OF ALL YOUR SIGHT   (   v   :   season five a   ).

in the process of being rewritten.

I STILL ONLY TRAVEL BY  FOOT   ,   &   BY FOOT   ,   IT’S A SLOW CLIMB   (   v   :   season five b   ).

in the process of being rewritten.

EVERYBODY WANTS TO RULE THE WORLD   (   v   :  ��season six   ).

in the process of being rewritten.

A NEW DAY IN THE OLD TOWN   (   v   :   season seven   ).

in the process of being rewritten.

[hitchell-mope]

Fictional characters that are known to be pieces of (mostly irredeemable) trash

The former king beast.

THOSE FUCKING JOURNALISTS WHO WOULDNT LEAVE MAL THE FUCK ALONE

Harry hook

Chad charming

Audrey

Greg Mendel

Tamara

Draco malfoy

Lucius malfoy

Snape

Bellatrix

Umbitch

Fudge

Vernon Dursley

Petunia Dursley

Peter Pettigrew

[piracytheorist]

Killian Jones as Chaotic

Note 1: this post doesn’t aim in trashing Killian’s character, but I will mention his evil deeds in as impartial a way as possible. It’s merely an effort for character analysis and study. Note 2: I’m planning to write a second part with the focus on Rumpelstiltskin, and a final third part which will point out the parallels and anti-parallels between both characters. It’s just that this one turned out to be huge so I decided to post it as is.

source

Character alignment started with character creation in role-playing games, but it has spread everywhere and with a certain stretch, it can apply to every single fictional character. The stretch is that rarely will you find characters that are of only one alignment, so in here I will talk about how Killian fits most criteria for one alignment, but also has important features of other alignments.

In a few words, just to make things clear, Law is when characters respect authorities and duty, while Chaos is when characters cherish their freedom and follow their conscience. Notice that none necessarily means Good or Evil, because as you can see, there are Lawfuls and Chaotics of all kinds. But I will talk about those in detail below.

Let’s talk about chaos. From easydamus:

Chaotic Good, "Rebel"

Chaotic good characters act as their conscience directs them with little regard for what others expect of them. They make their own way, but they’re kind and benevolent. They believe in goodness and right but have little use for laws and regulations. They hate it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. They follow their own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.

Chaotic Neutral, "Free Spirit"

Chaotic neutral characters follow their whims. They are individualists first and last. They value their own liberty but don't strive to protect others' freedom. They avoid authority, resent restrictions, and challenge traditions. Chaotic neutral characters do not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, they would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those different from themselves suffer). Chaotic neutral characters may be unpredictable, but their behavior is not totally random. They are not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it.

Chaotic Evil, "Destroyer”

Chaotic evil characters do whatever their greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive them to do. They are hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If they are simply out for whatever they can get, they are ruthless and brutal. If they are committed to the spread of evil and chaos, they are even worse. Thankfully, their plans are haphazard, and any groups they join or form are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.

Key words/phrases: “make their own way”, “value their liberty”, “unpredictable”. All good by now? Good. Let’s go to Killian.

As a kid, Killian adored and idolized his father. Perhaps he didn’t know any better. But in one way or another, the father figure is a form of authority, and he had that shattered at a very young age.

We know for sure that he grew up close to his brother, but in the horrible situation Brennan, Killian’s first authoritative figure, put them in. So he grows up to become impulsive, passionate, and defiant. He tries to attack Captain Silver when the latter bullies him, he doesn’t want to join the Navy, he drowns his sorrows in booze, but wishes he could be the brother he thinks Liam deserves.

When it comes to Liam, he wants to meet someone’s expectations, a trait of Lawful characters. A-ha.

They enlist in the Navy.

Please welcome Killian Jones, aspiring Lawful Good version.

In true nature, Killian is Chaotic; he values his freedom and doesn’t trust authority easily. Bad trait for a soldier, but he was trying for his brother’s sake/approval. So when Peter “there are no kings in Neverland” Pan plants a seed of doubt in Killian’s mind, that their benevolent king is not as benevolent as he may have thought, that sets Killian off immediately. Before Liam died for good, they were talking about “reporting [their king?] to the Admiralty”. When Liam dies, Killian goes full rogue, confiscates the ship and turns pirate. Taking matters into his own hands, not trusting into the law to solve things.

His reasons are Good; opposing a king who had sent them off to get poison. But in his speech, he says “We’ll sail under the crimson flag and we’ll give our enemies no quarter. We’ll take what we please.” His means are definitely Chaotic, since they’re opposing a king, but not exactly Good.

The code of Chaotic characters goes like this, according to easydamus:

Killian becomes Captain, something his crew seems to agree on, all to avenge his brother’s death. So his alignment as of now is mostly Chaotic Neutral, with sprinkles of Chaotic Good and Evil here and there.

And here is the first gap. Next time we see him is when he meets Rumpelstiltskin, and a lot seems to have changed till then. We don’t know what, but what we know is that he definitely turned himself into a bad guy.

He is Evil at that point. Selfish, cunning, nasty, bully. We all know. The thing is, he has a long way to go until he goes full vengeful Captain Hook and Ultra Evil Dark Hook. So I’m gonna place him somewhere between Neutral and Evil for that point. If anything, he doesn’t yet fit the “Destroyer” role. He had the potential for it but he probably didn’t care much pre-Milah’s death.

I would like to comment here on his first meeting with Milah. He may be cruel and violent, but sometimes even he has manners. When he notices that Milah is being harassed, he steps in and punches the guy out. Then he offers Milah a drink, kisses her hand, and eventually accepts her rejection when she mentions her husband. Make of that what you will.

Even pirates have a code, so when Rumpelstiltskin challenges him to a duel Killian knows he’s going to lose, he accepts anyway.

Milah dies and he dedicates himself to revenge.

Please welcome Killian Jones, Chaotic Evil version.

He’s literally going up alone against someone way more powerful than him and not giving a damn about that. He only helps Pan out of necessity, a means to reach his goal. He harms innocents who didn’t provoke him (Ursula) even ones he could invest emotionally in (Baelfire) or his own family (Liam II). Somewhere deep is the want to help others but he’s too far in. He lies and betrays and doesn’t give a damn about authority, and even takes other people’s freedom as well (Aurora). In other words, Chaotic as all hell.

The only tidbit I find is that in Season 2 he allowed himself to be another villain’s lackey. Cora, Regina, Greg and Tamara, in all cases he agreed to help them and do as he was told without being threatened. That is what I think is his 180 turn for the ones he loves; he turns Lawful, but he does so voluntarily. Again, Killian’s goal is still Chaotic; he doesn’t want to bring the bad guy to justice (Lawful) he just wants to avenge Milah’s death for her and himself.

Even so, he mostly acts alone (Chaotic - freedom) and changes sides all the time. He leaves Cora to join the Princesses, he hurries off to kill Rumpelstiltskin before Cora tells him it’s dangerous, he attacks Belle alone, he goes to New York alone, etc. The villains are there to get his help, not the other way around, and he doesn’t expect to be helped.

When faced with certain death, he offers his knowledge to the good guys only to betray them again and change his mind and come back. At the end of Season 2 he offers his help to find Henry and decidedly hits pause on his quest for revenge.

He’s got way to go, however, until he’s reached Neutral territory. In Neverland he made some progress, but he let it all go after everyone returned to the Enchanted Forest. Again, stealing, killing, betraying innocents (Ariel), though now without a cause. And then the second curse is cast.

*Knock knock*

Please welcome Killian Jones, Chaotic Neutral version.

Again, not truly Neutral, since his goal is Good; to bring Emma back and help save the others. Partially, however, he also wanted to be part of Emma’s life. And not fully Chaotic, he’s not against being told what to do anymore and is upset with keeping the secret of his cursed lips. But he still acts alone (trying to send Henry to New York without telling anyone), doesn’t disclose the truth about the missing year and Ariel, and doesn’t really ask for help with his cursed lips. All that are just part of his character and perfectly following the patterns of his previous behaviours.

Slowly he starts adopting Good traits: helping the needy - Storybrooke, honoring those who promote goodness - Charmings and co., not betraying others even when his life was in danger - cursed lips storyline.

Something that really interests me in his scene with Emma outside of Granny’s in the finale is this interaction: Emma thanks him for bringing her back, and he replies with “It was the right thing to do.” It’s fantastic because it can be read as Lawful (it was his duty to do so) but that doesn’t mean that he didn’t want to do it (Chaotic - he just damn well wanted to do it so he did it). 

Off to Season 4, his Evil tendencies are tingling, and he blackmails Gold into helping them. Gold helps them significantly. Then Killian blackmails Gold a second time, extracting the deal - Bad Form. He also lies/keeps it all a secret from Emma, and then his freedom is taken away.

Personal freedom is of the essence for a Chaotic character.  For a Chaotic Good character, personal freedom for others is essential too. Here Hook has lost the former and then has to take the fairies’ freedom too, and since he’s becoming Good, that upsets him even more. His continued defiance to Gold during those episodes could stem from this important trait of his character; even if his agency was taken away, he doesn’t stop trying to find ways to show himself that he does have a little left. It doesn’t hurt that it pisses Gold off, but the most important thing for Hook was to have that reassurance (see below for the Hades stuff).

One way I personally like to describe Chaotic characters in my mind is “overreacting and impulsive”.

In this case, Ursula is innocent - the worst thing she’s done is condone to kidnapping a child Hook didn’t even know, and she’s also a past victim of his - but to him, that doesn’t matter. And Ursula is pretty Chaotic herself - wanting to get away from her father, not caring whether he is a god or not - so it’s just Hook being overreacting and impulsive here. Good thing Ursula could defend herself.

However, the Chaotic Good trait “You shall honor those who promote freedom and goodness” comes into play when Emma gets angry with her parents for the Lily fiasco. He supports them and tries to help her forgive them, based on the fact that now they’re good and that they tried to fix their mistake. Which had nothing to do with them being her parents (authority) or actual royalty.

Then comes Cowardly Deckhand Hook.

This version of Hook doesn’t simply respect authority - he cowers to it. However, when his true self seems to come forward thanks to Emma, he actually stands up to Evil Snow’s guards and even threatens the same Queen herself.

Camelot and 5a, oh boy.

Again, acting on his own and impulsively - trying to free Zelena (and to take her heart, no less) and opposing Regina. And Good traits again - caring for Emma’s agency (to the extreme and almost at Robin’s expense) and goodness. Not caring about the apparently important tradition of a ball and focusing at the task at hand - however, now that I think of that, I think the first time we see him bow and actually mean it was to Emma right before he started dancing with her in said ball. Lawful for those he loves, hmm.

He looks sarcastic at David’s knighting and I find that interesting, however we never see his reaction to Arthur (royalty) until much later. He steps first into the breaking in in the dungeons and punches a couple of guards unconscious, helping the release of Merida and Lancelot. He gets angry with Merlin for telling them to break into the castle again without knowing all the dangers. Eventually he joins the second break-in, escapes from his bondage and attacks Arthur himself. He is angry with Regina forcing Emma to talk, and then the juicy and painful part comes.

Emma ignores his dying wish and turns him into the Dark One against his will.

As said before, a Chaotic character values their personal freedom above almost everything else. For a character like Killian, who grew up in servitude and had no say in his own life until he escaped it, it is safe to believe that he can be even more shaken by having his agency taken away. Sadly for him, it’s not only one instance then. Emma lies to him about Excalibur, and when he pushes her to reveal she has it, he takes a step back disgusted and asks if she’d used it on him. He’s still holding onto some Good/Neutral traits - not wanting to kill Emma in order to cast the Dark Curse, but the last straw is when Emma summons him against his will, and then he’s gone.

Please welcome Killian Jones, Ultra Chaotic Evil version.

After that point, he’s at his total worst. He lies, he betrays Emma, he kills Merlin with glee and casts the Dark Curse. Destroyer in every sense of the word.

After forgetting all of those stuff, he seems to automatically change back to his pre-Camelot persona. You could argue that pushing Emma away while they were in Storybrooke could be his transition to Lawful for her. That he wanted to be with her (Chaotic) but he had the duty to stay away for both of their sakes (Lawful). However, he brings the others with him (working with others - Lawful) in order to break into her house (breaking the law - Chaotic), but that’s only this once, because next thing we know, he’s trying to summon Emma alone, he jumps off a building to get her attention, and frees Zelena in an effort to get free and the answers he wants.

I also want to point out something on the murders he talks about. Barnaby mocked him for his disability, and Edgar was drinking from his wine. Pretty minor reasons to kill them, but those murders had nothing to do with Killian advancing himself and promoting order, so Chaotic.

He remembers he’s the Dark One and Chaotic Evil rises again.

And in the end, I want to note that his death was Lawful; he wanted to be remembered as someone good, he specifically says so.

And then the Underworld. Oh boy. If him being injured, bloody and almost unable to stand yet still opposing a very god himself doesn’t scream Chaotic, I don’t know what does. From his very first lines to Hades, he threatens to kill him (or do whatever’s worse to him), he sassies him and refuses to do what he asks. He doesn’t care about Hades’ position or power. Of course, all of that does have to do with Hades being the one who caused him pain and all, but it fits his character and it makes sense for him to threaten a freaking god instead of simply wanting to escape the torture. 

He does that while he’s a complete prisoner of Hades and has absolutely zero control or ability to stop him from hurting him. I think that once again his ceaseless defiance in every scene between them stemmed from Hook’s need to feel like he does have a little agency left. If he can’t stop Hades from hurting him, he can at least insult and boast at him. Same way he did with Captain Silver and Rumpelstiltskin.

He adds one more point to his hate for Rumpelstiltskin after finding out about his scheme because he feels like everything he did was so that Rumpelstiltskin could gain power, and that stings a lot for a Chaotic character; for someone to use their actions to advance themselves in strength and power.

And then he meets Liam again, Liam the ever Lawful. Remember how Killian wanted to be an upright Lawful officer because of his brother’s influence? Here you can see the same - with Liam agreeing to it, Killian prefers to allow the powers that be judge his fate than fight for a better outcome himself. Until he finds out that Liam wasn’t as Lawful Good as Killian thought he was - he had willingly allowed some innocent sailors to die (gaining power by killing, Lawful Evil) and he had lied to Killian about it (Chaotic). Killian’s image for his brother/father figure, one of the few authorities he’d allowed himself to respect, shatters, but not his love for him.

So next thing we know, he agrees to Emma’s plan to take matters into his own hands and go back with them. He proposes he kill Zelena (Evil), whom he still finds dangerous and suspicious. We don’t know who suggests he change the name on the tombstones, but he does cooperate with David on it and helps Cora escape at Regina’s request - breaking the law in pursuit of what he and the others think of as good. The fact that those seem to upset Hades a bit doesn’t hurt either.

He seems to be the only one who doesn’t trust Hades at any given moment. When he approaches them with a fair and seemingly clear deal, Hook warns Emma to not trust him. When the heart thing doesn’t work, he immediately accuses him. When Hades tells them to go alone after the ambrosia, he subtly voices his suspicions. His suspicions turn out to be legit in the end, but I think that most of it stemmed from his Chaotic nature and his complete unwillingness to trust in any authority.

In Season 6, Belle asks for a refuge and he lets her stay on the ship, without caring about the fact that she’s actually leaving her husband. It’s kind of a sensitive matter here, but from Hook’s perspective, I think he believed he was doing something good even if that meant he was going against traditions. Of course, this could be interpreted differently, I just think it fits the pattern.

Emma asks him to dispose of the shears, and he lies about doing that, while trying to solve things on his own (Chaotic), however, in the end he admits to his wrong.

Conclusion and personal thoughts

Look, I love Hook very much. But I’m not one to excuse his actions and glorify him by ignoring his past, and even his present. He still has violent tendencies, and the show didn’t bother to spend one second to show that he felt bad for accidentally killing Jekyll. What I’m trying to say is, even if his endgame is Good (protecting Emma and her family), he’s still somewhere between Neutral and Good. Besides, I don’t think he’ll ever actually stop wanting to kill Rumpelstiltskin, I just think he’s at peace with the idea that killing him isn’t worth it. But somewhere deep there is the want, and the Code of a Chaotic Good or Neutral character is “You shall not murder”, with no specifics. So if murder is at someone’s mind, they have Evil tendencies even if they’re actively trying and wanting to act Good. And of course there’s the matter of his past. I’m not trying to vilify him, but for the sake of this meta, I have to be honest.

Finally, Killian’s character alignment could be summed up to this; mostly Chaotic, he values his freedom and is triggered by the loss of it, he acts Lawful for those he loves, or in memory of them, but when they’re in danger his knee-jerk reaction is to act alone. Good goals, Good/Neutral actions, occasional Evil tendencies.