#anti avatar the legend of korra | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

starlight-bread-blog · 1 month ago

Text

Some people suggest that Katara became a trophy wife to Aang in TLoK. In my opinion the writing of the Gaang in TLok isn't very good, (and I'll discuss this later), but this critisism is not it. In her introduction, Katara is refered to as "Master Katara", she's a high ranking member of the White Lotus - and her most highlighted relationship is with Korra. She is the one who helps her recover from Zaheer, and she is the one who advises that she should meet Tenzin. Her relationship with Aang is very rarely the focus. Katara is not a trophy wife, nor is she reduced to Aang's partner.

This isn't to say that the writing in TLoK is perfect, I can name 5 issues from the top of my head.

She doesn't have a statue as she deserves.

She wasn't present during the bloodbending trial.

Katara is the only living Gaang member without a fight scene.

She wasn't present during her own grandaughter airbending ceremony.

When her children discussed their flawed childhood, we never heard of Katara's parenting and perspective.

But as you can see, none of these issues can be fixed by Katara not ending up with Aang or ending up with a different character. None of this issues suggest that Katara is living in specifically Aang's shadow.

Heck, even if Katara was a trophy wife (which she isn't), that wouldn't be a problem with Kataang, it would be a problem with TLoK. Compare this (hypothetical) situation to the very not hypothetical situation of the comics. Many if not all of the characters act incredibly out of character (if I remember correctly, but for argument's sake let's say that they are). Aang promises to kill Zuko if he ever becomes like his father. That is out of character. He couldn't kill a genocidal dictator because of his cultural values. It was very powerful in the original. So what, does that mean that Aang has given up on preserving his nearly dead culture, and that we should hold him accountable for it? Of course not. He's being out of character. His promise is a comics problem, not an Aang problem.

This is the same with Kataang in TLoK. It wouldn't be a Kataang problem, it'd be a TLoK problem. Because in A:TLA, Katara is anything but a trophy wife. She is the narrator, the central character of many episodes, a master waterbender, a teacher, a healer - she is the hero alongside Aang. If you cannot link Katara being a trophy wife to A:TLA, you should take no issue with A:TLA. Katara hypothetically being a trophy wife has nothing to do with the original cartoon. Again, it wouldn't be a Kataang problem, it'd be a TLoK problem.

But then again, Katara isn't a trophy wife to begin with.

59 notes · View notes

soosth · 10 months ago

Text

AANG ＆ OZAI PARALLELS: DEBUNKED

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Because apparently the true villain is the sole survivor of a genocide of his entire nation, and not the imperialist colonizer.

Where do I even begin?? Because I’m genuinely holding in laughter writing this, it’s absolutely insane how certain people can make such egregious parallels that aren’t even found in the first place.

AH, so a little backstory on how this fucking shit stained idea even came to existence, well our dear z^tara fans pissed their pants over Zuko and Katara not tying the knot, so, as a way of retribution for their supposed “honour” They take any chance to jump on the Aang hate train and make him into some irredeemable abusive demon, aaand they got that perfect opportunity because the LoK decided to take a lick out of the great “Main Characters Must Be Bad Parents In The Sequels” Trope. Which personally, does absolutely nothing to the protagonists resolution aside from cheap family drama but I digress.

Now, I’m not behind the idea of the writers trying to make Aang a “flawed” Parent, I think it really makes no sense by how they went about it, (I might touch on this in another post)

((And it’s so very clear that they’re trying to give it a soft “retcon” And even taking extra steps saying that Kya and Bumi just “remember wrong” Which I’ll actually take, because season two of LOK was hell on earth anyway so you might as well give it some saving grace.))

--------------------------------------------------------------

There’s three main parallels that they got from Ozai and Aang: (god help me)

Favouring a child

isolating the rest

leaving pressure On the golden child

I’m going to debunk all three of them while trying not to fall into complete lunacy over how ridiculous they are.

Favouring a child + Leaving pressure:

OK, so people are clearly blind with context clues and media comprehension, got it. No surprise whatsoever. I can’t be disappointed if I didn’t even have any expectations to begin with.

Let’s compare the treatment on how Ozai treats Azula, and how Aang treats Tenzin. (Holy Shit)

Beginning with Ozai, well.. It doesn’t take much of a rocket scientist to understand that Ozai essentially could not give two fucks about Azula, as she in essence, serves the role of an attack dog, as long as it does its job, it’s worthy.

Ozai favoured Azula because she was molded to match his ferocity and hunger for power, she was a prodigy bender, and was cunning and calculated, all traits that Ozai found endearing and someone worthy to be crowned the next “fire lord.” His “favouring” Of her didn’t come out of genuine love or care, she is his tool who serves a purpose. In short, she showed more competency and more ruthlessness and callousness in comparison to Zuko. Which earned her, her place as the “Golden Child.”

-------

None of this is even remotely similar to how Aang treated Tenzin and his kids, aside from the fact he supposedly “favoured” Tenzin more, but that is such a baseline statement and has absolutely no relation with Ozai's reasons.

You have to understand that an entire FUCKING NATION IS DEAD. History, Culture, Tradition, is at the BRINK of being wiped out, Tenzin is quite literally the only Airbender that will be left after Aangs passing. Why do people devalue this concept so much?

“B-BUT THE AIR ACOLYTES1!!” Still have limited knowledge, airbending is so heavily tied to its spiritual roots, you LOSE your ability to AIRBEND, if you aren't inclined to your spiritual side. Which is a core part of the air nomad culture. Tenzin is... Literally the only god forsaken part left of that, so yeah. It’s a pretty big fucking deal. Aang values his culture and teachings to such a high degree, he is literally the survivor of a genocide. His favouring of Tenzin was done out of necessity and love, not out of a need for power and a new attack dog to send orders around.

Tenzin will literally be the future “Director” Or guide for the next avatar to learn airbending, people still forget this, and it’s hilarious. He needs to know all the moves, all the teachings because he will be the next avatar's personal guide.

Aang constantly reassures him, and apologizes for the pressure that may be put upon him but he always reaffirms that he’ll be there to guide him and they’ll “learn together”

---------

So yeah not the same thing at all. Fuck you for being so inept at understanding the different reasons and perspectives of those situations, just for some petty ship discourse, genuinely disgusting.

Isolating the children:

OK this part, I have to say that the writers definitely messed up with aangs characterization, but I think the execution came out way differently than the intention, so I will try to look more into the intention of each decision.

Ozai isolated Zuko, mistreated him, belittled him, PHYSICALLY ABUSED HIM, but yeah totally on par with Aang actually.

I don’t wanna touch on this part much mainly because his treatment was literally explained all throughout the show, and granted, while I understand most of these people haven’t touched the show aside from reading fanfic 300000 Where Aang is revealed to us as satan himself, but perhaps, even a small peak at Ozai's parenting would reveal the laughable contrast between the two.

Zuko was a slow learner, and much more of a softie, and a “mama's boy” To Ozai’s heavy dislike, he was thus treated as such, he was belittled, turned down, and literally burnt alive for showing “weakness” He is meant to serve as a direct contrast to Azula, ”The everything he isn't.”

Kya and Bumi on the other hand, don’t show any actual signs of trauma aside from some petty jabs they threw at Tenzin,

Bumis talk with Aang at the statue was *very very* Clearly, meant to highlight his own inferiority complex that he internalized growing up. His need for proving himself to be capable of doing just as much if not more than a “bender” Probably happened because his two parents were both prodigy benders and him being a first born son who was a non-bender must’ve hit pretty hard for him, and I’m so sure that katara and Aang reassured how special he is but that kind of thing doesn’t really go away.

------

Kya: [while healing Bumi] I told you those rocks were slippery. You're lucky you didn't kill yourself.

Bumi: You done with the lecture, mom?

Kya: Oh, grow up. You haven't changed one bit since we were kids. You're still trying to prove you can do everything a bender can. Well, you can't. Deal with it.

----------------------

That talk with Aangs statue was very much meant to unveil an internal struggle rather than a conflict he had with his father. Kya even doubles down on this, telling him “of course he’d be proud of you” Basically spoon feeding to us, the viewers, that this is much more of internal than an external conflict that he has to overcome along the show.

“Why Didn’t he share his culture with them 1!!1!”

He most definitely did, or tried to, but it’s clear they didn’t show much interest so he didn’t pester, this is shown many times throughout the show.

“You know I could never keep all those gurus straight… There were like a million of them!

remember that long boring story about the guy who never ate?”

This is literally Kya’s remark to Tenzin just after he tried teaching the airbender students this story, basically telling us that Aang DID try to tell them about his stories and culture, but much to their disinterest, didn’t try any further.

And Bumi, literally could not pay attention to the story to save his life, and instead decided to fool around in his literal 60’s!! I mean Imagine what he was like when he was a kid!!

I could imagine their dynamic was very similar to Jinora with Meelo and Ikki, Tenzin being the only one with actual interest and care, whilst Bumi and Kya goofing off and not putting much focus onto it. WHICH IS FINE BTW!!

It only goes to reiterate that Tenzin was the only one who was actually giving interest and attention to the air nomad culture, and it was of Kya and Bumi’s own personal choice to not partake in it. To each their own I see.

“BUT WHAT ABOUT THE VACATIONS”

This.. I agree, weird for the writers to decide this, but given how they low-key are retconning it in interviews, my best guess is that each of those trips were side-quests during their journey to teach an important lesson that might’ve just drowned out because Tenzin may not have remembered it as well.

Also keep in mind that Tenzin was put into a lot of pressure, Aang probably saw this, and as a way to still keep it enjoyable, he took him to trips that would help ease the mind for a little kid whilst also learning something valuable. That seems pretty on brand for Aang actually

And given that Kya and Bumi are literally in their fucking 60’s it wouldn’t surprised me if they didn’t have the greatest memory. Hell, they didn’t even fault Aang as a parent until Tenzin started boasting about “trips” That Kya and Bumi gave petty jabs but weren’t actually showing genuine hurt, just annoyance.

Kya even comments how Aang was too busy “Trying to save the world, and doing his duty that he didn't have much time for them”

Phrasing as if it wasn't anything "important" But it's clear that this was Kya's own personal irritation towards Tenzin rather than an actual evaluation on Aang's duties.

A continuation comic best explains it in a deeper way:

----------

Literally showing that “neglecting” His kids wasn't up to him, and was out of a sense of necessity, trying to cram as much knowledge onto Tenzin, the only one who was basically putting his lessons into practices. Kya and Bumi were left feeling neglected. But that wasn’t out of his decision; he still loved them dearly.

-------

This. Literally highlighting how much pressure was forced upon Aang, so yes, as any person would, he struggled with making time for everybody. Holy shit who knew??

GASP!! IS THAT… A REALISTIC BUT UNDERSTANDABLE FLAW!!?? HOW DARE YOU! ITS OZAI #2

The fact that the smiley energetic person forgets to SMILE, is a big deal, man was put through hells amount of stress but he never cracked.

So tell me, how is a genocidal freak, who treats his golden child like a tool and abuses the other both physically and emotionally for showing “weakness’

Even remotely comparable to

the sole survivor of a genocide, trying to withhold his teachings and culture onto literally his only child that showed actual effort in doing so, while also maintaining the balance of an entire fucking world and being literally the biggest “advisor” And “Mentor” For society, OH! And also building and managing a literal city, but along the way struggling to make time for his children.

Guess what, they’re not. And if you think they are. You are an idiot, with bias and headcanons.

So the conclusion is, Aang is a flawed parent, but he isn't a "bad" Parent - confirmed by the literal writers.

Comparing him to Ozai a literal dictator, is absolutely sickening, just for your petty shipping discourse when this show's been over for a decade is insane. Indulge in what you enjoy, but stop projecting delusions like they're canon.

#atla #avatar the last airbender #aang #pro aang #aang defense squad #the legend of korra #tenzin #kya ii #bumi ii #how could you hate this cutie #anti anti aang #anti zutara #pro kataang #kataang #you all suck #anti zutara fandom #katara x aang #aang meta

242 notes · View notes

beifong-brainrot · 2 months ago

Note

your analyses of Lin came to mind the other day when I saw someone post about how “Lin should be able to smack Korra at least once.” And like. It’s not just one post, it seems to be a common ‘jokey’ attitude in the fandom, and…it’s really interesting how much the fandom loves Lin acting violent and aggressive towards everyone - particularly against Korra, who acts in a similar “aggressive” manner but not nearly as shitty (imo), but the fandom seems to despise her for it.

So I was wondering if you have any thoughts specifically on Lin and Korra’s relationship? Both in canon and how the fandom treats them?

Oh yeah, I think I've seen that post! I've honestly been wanting to do more Lin metas but have been holding off because back when I posted a lor of Suyin defences I got a not insignificant amount of nasty anonymous asks, and I know that Lin is beloved by the fandom so while I make my passive aggressive comment from time to time, actually dwelling on the subject is a bit of a gambit.

Honestly, it's not even that I dislike Lin. I actually enjoyed her character a fair amount when I first watched the show and was totally on board with the fandom loving this character. But eventually I got so tired of the constant takes about how everyone in Lin's life is soooo mean to her and how she never did anything wrong and she's secretly just a lil bean , she's just a biy grumpy guys.

And, oh, the jokey comments about how Lin should be allowed to smack Korra, a teen, who, in my opinion gets smacked around fairly enough in the show. Or how she should be allowed to curbstomp Tenzin, despite us knowing very little about their relationship other than the fact that Lin atatcked his house and misused her power as a police officer to terrorise his new partner. Or how Suyin, a woman who has gone through so much to change and become a better person and still keeps ger heart open for those who hurt her, should die or be killed.

Like yeah, they're jokes, but they speak to how the fandom quickly takes Lin's side in most situations, even when there is more nuance to the situation. I think taht due to tlok having such a large amount of violence and fight scenes ans perhaps due to the personality of Korra herself, the fandom has normalised Lin's aggressive and often physical behaviour. And because most of the characters are teens, Lin's immaturity as a person doesn't stick out too much.

But Lin isn't a teen, like Korra or Mako. She's a 50+ year old woman and a fucking cop at that. She should know better. I think one of my favourite questions Lin's character mames me ask is: "how long can you cling to your trauma before its your responsibility to strive to do better?".

This isn't to say that Lin is a horrible person. I'd actually say she's a pretty good person. It's obvious she cares and she can try to be empathetic when the chips are down. But her lack of emotional maturity makes it difficult for her to actually act on her feelings when not in a life or death situation.

Ultimately this is what I like about Lin as a character, her duality. A very protective and thoghtful person, who has stagnated in a shell of anger and aggression.

And I think Lin's relationship with Korra ilustrates this duality perfectly.

I do enjoy Lin and Korra's arguments due to their chemistry and the excellent voice acting. But like it is still an adult yelling at and holding an actual grudge against a 17 year old. Who is already under a huge amount of stress.

I also think that we often forget that in her tiffs with Lin, Korra often starts off with a suprising amount of calmness and grace. She often attempts to actively connect with Lin and express her point through conversation, despite this being sonething Korra markedly struggles with.

Korra : But there were some thugs threatening a helpless shopkeeper, and I had it ... Lin: [Aggressively.] Can it! You should have called the police and stayed out of the way. Korra: [Slightly pleading tone.] But I couldn't jut sit by and do nothing. It's my duty to help people. See, I'm the Avatar.

[...]

Korra: Wait, Beifong? Lin Beifong? [Excitedly.] You're Toph's daughter! Lin: [Seriously.] What of it? Korra: [A hint of amusement suppressed in her tone.] Well then, why are you treating me like a criminal? Avatar Aang and your mother were friends. They saved the world together.

Through the first season, we're lead to infer that Lin's unfounded animosity towards Korra has something to do with her grudge against Tenzin. I can see this not only due to Tenzin's association witg Korra as her teacher and the son of the previous Avatar, but also due to some similarities between Korra ans Tenzin. They're both people saddled with a major responsibility and legacy, who struggle with forming their own identity due to that legacy. Plus, the comic we got about young Tenzin is essentially 1 to 1 Korra's first day in republic city.

Side note: can we stop demonising Tenzin for leaving Lin? I'm pretty sure it's not confirmed that Tenzin left her purely because he needed to have children. And honestly if after he broke up with Lin, she damaged his home, used her posution to terrorise his new partner, and held a grudge for 11+ years, I'm honestly not to sure what to think about their relationship pre breakup. ESPECIALLY with how willy nilly tlok plays with female on male abuse. No, I'm not saying Lin is an abusor, but there may be other factors we need to consider. I mean Lin does outwardly laugh and sympathise with Korra throwing Mako's desk across the room which is the Makorra abuse moment ™️

Though I also adore the implication in B3 that Lin is also reminded of Suyin by Korra. This also is a comparison that makes sense. Korra and Su were both young, rebellious women who had to leave home to find themselves. Both had tendency to be sarcastic and were opinionated and had a habit of defying authority etc.

And I think this may be even more of a reason why Lin has such an aggresive vendetta against Korra and also why she's so controlling in the later seasons. Particularly when she gets on Korra's ass at the party and says that Korra is "nothing special" feels targeted towards Lin feeling like Suyin got special treatment.

Lin being controlling towards Korra can also be seen as her trying to compensate for when she tried to similarly control Su, but Suyin ended up defying her. (While I see a lot of people bring up parentification between Lin and Su, I'll lean more towards it being a very intense rivalry)

Either way, Korra reminds Lin of people who have hurt her and the hurt she seems to cling to in some parody of comfort in familiarity.

This is one of the most visible patterns in Lin I see. Her absolute abhorrence of changing her mindset. She holds a grudge against Tenzin for over 11 years. She holds a grudge against Su and Toph for longer than that. She is so horrifically resistant to even touching the idsa that Suyin had changed as a person. And even after her and Su make up, the moment the opportunity arrises, Lin is back to typecasting Suyin as the bad guy.

People say that Korra was too harsh in The Metal Clan when she called Lin out.

Korra : Su's right. You're never going to change. You're always gonna be a bitter, lonely woman.

And yeah, it was objectively an incredibly mean thing to say and Korra was quite out of line. But she's not wrong. We see Lin struggle with making human connections, we've deduced that her grip on the past makes her hold grudges against people she's never met. We see her be immature, aggressive and emotionally closed off. If she were a healthy individual outside of Zaofu, I would encourage her distancing herself from Suyin. But clearly whatever coping mechanism Lin has is leaving her pushing people away and treating teenagers like her peers.

Like something clearly needs to change.

And I think that's another reason why Korra and Lin are such a fun duo. Because Korra goes through so mucuhchange herself. She shanges the world, she changes the lives of her friends, she changes herself.

And that's something Lin desperately needs and yet fears all the same. This also makes it even more interesting that Aiwei, a member of the Red Lotus who embody that "change" concept was a vital part of Lin and Suyin begining to reconcile.

And I think Lin knows this, to some extent. She knows her coping mechanisms are flawed, but she doesn't want to acknowledge this. But I need to talk about Lin's babystep trail of an arc in a different post.

I was gonna say that Lin and Korra are also similar but honestly other than their tempers and tendency to terrorise their tallass ex boyfriends, there isn't much there.

I still find Lin and Korra's relationship to have some sweet moments. I loved Lin and Korra's moment of kinship afterthey both lost their bending, how gently Korra grabbed Lin after she passed out in Zaofu, how Lin helped Korra get up the stairs after she was paralysed.

I think that one of the reasons they argue so much in B3 partocularly is because they care for each other quite a bit. They just embody two polar opposites. Korra- change and danger. Lin- stagnation and protection. Of course they'll fight.

----

I don't exactly like how fandom treats Korra and Lin's relationship because it always feels ao watered down. This kinda extends to the entire Krew too. The 'Lin is like the Krew's mom' thing. Because on the jokey surface, yeah, i see it. Female authority figure who makes sure they don't get into trouble. Plus fandom has a tendency to forcefully assign cishet traditional family dynamics to found family.

But on a deeper level, acting as if Lin were a mother to the Krew is in my opinion, a bit of an insult to mothers everywhere. Because Lin acts less like an adult and more like a... slightly older teen? Which makes sense, we see that very little has changed in how Lin approaches young people since she was 22. She treats the Krew like peers, bickering with them and making snide comments, but then pulls the authority figure when she wants something. That's like the worst type of adult.

[This is ironic because my mom is actually very much like Lin and this is probably why I gave her so much of a pass when I watched tlok the first time]

Lin is a big sister/aunt figure to most of the Krew at best. Maybe except Mako but he has his own demons and is making himself a son figure whether Lin likes it or not.

But Korra is basically Lin's stand-in for her sister and they both act like it too. They act like me and my sister tbh. And Asami and Bolin barely interact with Lin anyway. There's more ground to posit Su as Bolin's potential mother figure!

Lin is a fascinating character to me, but fandom tropes have sorta ruined her for me. I came into the fandom really liking her character but ended up sorta jaded to seeing the same questionable takes about her over and over again. It just makes me see how little her potential is explored in the show. The writers failed Lin, not by not allowing her to 'win' against Su and Korra and Tenzin and whoever. They failed her by not giving her the storyline she needed. The storyline for which the main catalyst, Korra already was at the centre of the board. They half assed Lin's storyline and now literally every character who so much as looked at Lin has to pay the price.

[Ooh wow symbolism Lin glaring at Zaofu, Suyin's home, but actually glaring at her own reflection.]

I now realise that I have gone on for way too long and got hotrifically off topic, but I hope I have explained at least a few if my thoughts?

57 notes · View notes

theweeklydiscourse · 10 months ago

Text

Someone on twitter was expressing their disappointment about how Katara ended up becoming the healer she never wanted to become in Legend of Korra and got absolutely piled on for it.

“She decided to settle down!”

“Are you saying that being a healer is BAD? Why are you looking down on it?”

“She had other responsibilities to attend to, like her grandchildren and community! She would’ve been too busy to fight”

“She was too fragile! She already achieved world peace, what more do you want from her?!”

These are some of the comments I saw people making about that post. I even saw someone citing the comics as an example of Katara doing more than just healing in her old age. It was a scene of her training young Korra and I though it was really sweet but like…if only they actually included that scene in the show. I just feel like we should have to use the comics as supplementary material to cover the flaws in Legend of Korra and should be able to judge it on its own merit.

The comics don’t really matter to me, because the most visible and relevant parts of the story are depicted in the ACTUAL animated series. If we are critiquing the way LOK depicted Katara, we shouldn’t have to be weighed down by dozens of whataboutisms that don’t understand the difference between a watsonian and doylist critique.

Here’s one example:

These are real people, THESE ARE REAL-LIFE ACTORS! These examples are not animated characters that exist in a supernatural world, the characters in ATLA are not governed by reality in the way that these real-life actors are. Furthermore, aging seems to be such an insurmountable obstacle for Katara…but somehow the fact that Toph and Zuko were throwing down well into their 80s is totally plausible.

But these kinds of fans will freak out over the most basic criticism of the text. They can’t handle that questioning it leads to realizing the broader thematic implications of neglecting Katara’s character and ignoring her in the story.

They bring up the comics but I just don’t accept that as proof of coherent storytelling. Like thank you for the textual example! But what if I don’t accept the text? What if I think the text is wrong and has sexist undertones?

#pro katara #avatar the last airbender #anti atla comics #anti bryke #legend of korra #atla fandom discourse #atla fandom critical #katara deserved better #katara #anti kataang

201 notes · View notes

longing-for-rain · 3 months ago

Note

Idk if you've watched tlok but if u have what are your thoughts on pema/pema x tenzin?

I feel like a lot of what ppl say about tlok katara more fits her. Yk the her being reduced down to a only a mother and being a one dimensional chartacter.(obviously she not as big of a character as katara or tenzin but still)

Also how do u think katara/pema relationship would/should be like being mother/daughter-in-law?

I really don't like pemzin, or Tenzin for that matter. It was a doomed premise from the start. The story of pemzin is:

Tenzin dates Lin, a woman who doesn't want children

After realizing Lin isn't going to budge, Tenzin breaks up with her

Tenzin then begins dating Pema, a much younger woman who basically views him as a god

Pema then spends the rest of her pre-menopausal years pregnant

So yeah it's really hard to get behind that for me. I think what makes Katara more of a shame is that she is shown to explicitly want something different from what canon gave her, and her character in TLOK plays into the idea that being gender-nonconforming is something that women are supposed to grow out of rather than embrace, not to mention that she was a main character in ATLA. I think both are worthy of criticism.

As for how I think Pema and Katara's relationship would be, I think Katara is obviously a kind person who would want to know the mother of her grandchildren, but there would always be a disconnect. Despite being Katara's only biological grandchildren, they have no interest at all in her culture and Pema and Tenzin clearly only value their Air Nomad roots. Katara isn't the type to say anything about it, but I think it would be upsetting to her.

#anti pemzin #anti kataang #atla #tlok #katara deserved better #katara #pema #avatar the last airbender #the legend of korra #ask #anon

56 notes · View notes

kittenfangirl20 · 6 months ago

Text

Kataang is not a healthy relationship, a healthy relationship doesn’t have someone kiss the other person without seeking consent for the kiss twice. One of those times Katara had stated that she didn’t know if she was ready for romance before Aang kissed her without her consent. I am honestly offended that anyone thinks Kataang is anywhere near as good as Korrasami.

#atla #atlok #avatar the last airbender #avatar the legend of korra #anti kataang #korrasami #i don’t care about the opinions of kataang shippers #kataang shippers dni

82 notes · View notes

darklinaforever · 1 month ago

Text

It's 2024, almost 2025, and people are still trying to claim that The Legend Of Korra was good when it was an objectively a bad show. That Korrasami is well written when clearly not. That Katara is well written there when not, limits her treatment is an aberration ! And I have to say that this is probably the thing that annoys me the most about this show and these fans. The defense of Katara's treatment on this show disgusts me.

#avatar the last airbender #avatar : the last airbender #atla #katara #pro katara #anti tlok #anti lok #anti the legend of korra #anti legend of korra #anti avatar the legend of korra #anti avatar legend of korra #zutara #anti korrasami

60 notes · View notes

spop-romanticizes-abuse · 4 months ago

Text

honestly, i think the double standards with catra and glimmer stems from something other than pretty privilege, and it's something i've seen in a lot of media.

take, for instance, the atla fandom demonizing aang and katara but coddling azula. or the su fandom villanizing steven but making excuses for spinel and lapis.

and the reason for this is that villains or antagonists are always given more freedom to make mistakes, to do heinous shit, to be cold or rude or insensitive to others. the logic being that "they're the villain, of course they're gonna be horrible".

with heroes, on the other hand, there's this subconscious judgment whenever they make a mistake. heroes are meant to be perfect and as much as people say that they want more antiheroes, they always judge a hero based on how morally good they are.

which explains why katara is hated on for saying something insensitive out of repressed grief and trauma, but azula is coddled for committing multiple war crimes.

why glimmer is bashed for being kinda mean and making some bad choices due to grief and pressure, but catra's conscious choice to attempt genocide and willing participation in war is justified.

why steven is villanized for having a mental breakdown after years of suppressed trauma, but spinel's attempts to kill dozens of people on earth are excused.

why mabel is demonized for being kinda selfish sometimes and for being manipulated into giving away something she didn't know the importance of, but bill is loved by everyone.

why korra is blamed for trusting her uncle and losing her connection to the previous avatars, instead of unalaq being held accountable for manipulating her (unalaq isn't really coddled by the fandom but there's a huge victim blaming problem).

simply put, people want heroes to be pure. they want surface-level flaws like clumsiness and awkwardness, not REAL flaws. as much as these people say that they want more morally grey or complex heroes, the truth is that they can't even handle their hero being kinda rude to someone.

especially with characters like glimmer, mabel and katara, who have a more traditionally feminine aesthetic and is generally a good person, people expect them to be well-behaved and perfect all the time. even though both these characters were shown to be passionate and stubborn and fierce from the very beginning, people are still blindsided when they actually take a bold stance or act on their emotions.

and with steven, he was a nice, happy, easygoing kid in the beginning and he tried to remain optimistic throughout all the trauma he went through, so people just expect him to do that forever. to always repress his feelings and never give himself the space to express them, to always focus on being a therapist for literally every other character and to never prioritize himself.

and like sure, villains are meant to be evil. i'm not telling anyone to water down their villains. but there's a difference between liking a villain and excusing their actions. i like azula. i like all of the villains in tlok. i like bill cipher. i even like catra and white diamond minus their shitty redemption arcs.

but i'm not going to set double standards by justifying everything that a villain does and demonizing a hero for acting out of line once. especially if the hero actually takes responsibility for their actions and tries to be better, and the villains just get forgiven for doing the bare minimum.

#rant #long post #anti stans #spop #she ra #steven universe #atla #avatar the last airbender #tlok #the legend of korra #gravity falls #fandom discourse #fandom rant #fandom critical #fandom criticism #fandom critique

157 notes · View notes

dreamchasernina · 11 months ago

Text

Am I the only one worried about adult gaang movie? I know Bryke are the ones working on it, but honestly…I don’t have much faith in them.

Look, Avatar is like this sacred prefect thing to me, and I cannot handle a thought of something ruining this perfect story and characters. It ended so perfectly, but to be able to write another story with these characters they’re gonna have to create problems, right?

Like for instance, how are they going to create a villain that will be an actual threat to Aang (especially Aang in the avatar state), without breaking the rules of the world they built? They broke those rules over and over again in Korra to one up a previous villain.

Another conern is, are they going to ruin the relationships? Writers don’t like seeing the characters in happy relationships, case and point, Korra and Mako. I don’t really care about them, I just found it wierd spending the whole first season building up their relationship just to break them up in the second season. It’s a problem with a lot of writers, they’d rather break a couple up and get them back together again by the end, than let them be in a happy and healthy relationships. Same said for the friendships. I’m scared to discover the movie starts with “I haven’t talked to Zuko in years because A B C happened”.

Another thing, is there going to be an arc for every single character? If so, how are they going to accomplish that in 2 hours? I love love love how every single character in ATLA gets an amazing personal arc, and well, if they’re going to to the same in the movie, how will that work? Or will some of the characters get a backseat and become not as significant. Again, I have to bring up an example from LoK. You can’t say Mako and Bolin’s parts in the last seasons were as important as the rest of the characters’. Again, I personally don’t care about those characters, so I don’t have a problem with it, but the balance between the characters in ATLA is what makes it superior to LoK, so I’m sure if they decide to make Sokka’s (for example) journey less significant than others’, it would make a lot of people angry.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. Of course I want to see more content from the Avatar universe, especially the gaang, but I’m just scarred from LoK and not sure I can handle them ruining characters even more.

Can we just have 2 hours of the gaang on vacation on ember island just getting in all kinds of shenanigans?

#avatar the last airbender #avatar #avatar: the last airbender #the last airbender #atla #aang #sokka #zuko #katara #Bryke #toph #anti LoK #the legend of korra #kataang #maiko #sukka #team avatar

146 notes · View notes

that-one-kiddo-in-the-back · 2 months ago

Text

Fandoms creepy obsession with torture... Lily doesn't understand depression or trauma.

youtube

I've been sitting on this one for a while, so let's dig in. Today's word of the day is "Martry," a person who is killed for a belief.

Right off the bat, Lily starts talking about how we as a fandom is obsessed with the torture of WOC using Korra, Luz, and Anne and an example for a dark joke she made in her moon girl review and in this video she's only gonna be using Korra, Luz, and some She-ra.

She starts with Korra and the torture she experienced with the red lotus, the group that's been trying to kill Korra ever since she was born, and how in her Korra is garbage she was pretty harsh for how it portrays her trauma at the final season. She then goes on to explain the torture scene, how you saw everything in all its gory detail, makes a small insult towards Korra's VA, then how she's tossed around like a rag doll then almost suffocated with the end of all that being shown Korra weakly reaching for her father before she passes out... "a heartbreaking shot that is under cut by the sheer sadisticly glee the writers had when the tortured Korra." Something I found kinda funny was that in her long ass Korra is garbage video, she complained that you didn't see a dictator...acting like a dicktator. Korra is the main character in a made for teen show made in 2012, so yeah, you're gonna see the poor girl getting beaten down. In the 2010s, a lot of shows that were aimed for teenagers showed a bunch of main characters getting beaten down with barely any psychological effects. Teen wolf, young justice, the fosters, your name, and Chronicle all shows during the 2010s that displayed pretty horrific scenes of torture or just getting beaten up and that wasn't because of the fandom or the writers being fucking weird it was more of a trend that started out of nowhere.

Lily then decided to call that all torture porn all because Korra's trauma is erased, with there still some mercury in her body. She then goes on about "how people said that Korra's behavior is realistic because that's what people think trauma looked like you being sad and demotivated." She continues by explaining that trauma is deeper than which is true to a degree. That fact is trauma is not one thing. You can be depressed and not even want to get out of bed, which changes how you think. Lily thinks that just because Korra was able to slowly pick herself up that she's back to normal and not bothered by almost getting killed to which I say Lily did you really want to see Korra have panic attacks and constantly hallucinat? Because it sounds like you do.

At the end of her talking about Korra, she finishes it by saying that the torture wasn't necessarily and a big fuck you to character development and that it was just the writers getting off to the idea of torturing women... now to Luz.

Lily starts out by saying that Dana terrace is really into depressing and the macabre, but on a fan girl surface level and still thinks creepy pasta is cool (keep that shit out of your mouth Lily) Lily really can't help herself but to drag women/nb/transmen creators through the mud in her Korra section she didn't name drop or even show a picture of the creators or writers even though she said the men where showing off their creepy "torture fetish" before watching this I watched her video on Catra and Adora's relationship and how abusive Catra is and Lily called ND Stevenson a Creep and an abuse fetishist and I think this all comes from a place of jealousy because they were able to make something amazing and be green light for shows where no one is a right mind would trust Lily with a five dollar bill.

After Lily was finally able to pull herself away from talking shit on female creators, she finally started talking about Luz's trauma, bringing up how, in the last episode of the first season after Eda was dragged away she starts to fight Lilith and says that was her trauma response which it's not really. Eda being captured was the beginning of the traumatic experiences Luz was gonna go through. As the show went on, you can see more of Luz blaming herself for things out of her control. Even when it was the smallest thing, she'd go way out of her way to make it up. Luz's trauma response is trying to fix what she broke she's the kind of person that would bring treats as an apology and tell the person she wronged how sorry she is for a week.

Lily then goes on to complain that in season 3, she doesn't do anything she mops around instead of trying to fight like in season 1, but a lot has happened between 1 and 3 Luz's trauma and depression all falls from her blaming herself for everything that happened.

Eda being captured, seeing her mother and the promise she made, failing to attend her father's grave, seeing all of the past golden guards empty helmets, watching Hunter get dragged under by belos, finding out she help belos met the collector who in turn gave him the draining spell, and the final nail in the coffin being King sacrificing himself to protect her resulting in Luz and her friends being stuck in the human realm with no idea if their parents and family are alright. Who the fuck wouldn't be depressed after all that?! She says she wanted a scene where Luz talks about her trauma which she already does she talks to her mother she knows that everyone else isn't having a good time either so she doesn't want to talk about it. If you found out all of your friends were not doing so hot, would you really want to bother them with your problems? That's the thing with deep deep depression it makes you think the world would be better off without you. That you're a pest to your friends and family and that they would be happier without you, which isn't true, and even when you know that you can't stop thinking that anyway. Lily talks about depression like it's something easy to get over with, that if Luz just really sat down and talked about it, she'd instantly feel better and go back to her ass kicking self but that fact that she didn't Luz is now a terrible girlfriend.

Now, we all know how Lily deals with people who have crippling depression which to say she kicks them to the curb and dusts off her hands of the situation. Remember Lily broke up with someone who was in a horrible state of depression saying that she was being toxic and a waste of time, and to that, I say what kind of a cruel person ditches someone like that?

She calls Luz a shit person for having crippling depression for not talking about the root of her self blame. Luz has been keeping her role in helping belos with the mass genocide and other things a secret and lies because she believes the truth would hurt them more she's not being a shit person on purpose. Luz never expected her friends to paddle her bad behavior or to even shower her with affection she's expecting the opposite. She thinks that if she tells them the truth, they will look at her with disgust and leave her, you know, like the mind trap the collector put her in that showed her worst nightmare. That you would have known if you watched it!!!

Lily once again blames Dana for not having a crying scene when her show was canceled, and instead, we got a realistic depiction of crippling depression. She goes back on calling everyone in the fandom creepy fucks that like our slow burn hurt with no comfort fics and how we like it even more when it's with women and black people. Now I like my edgy fan fiction, and it's not because I like seeing black women getting tortured. I simply like it as an outlet. I like seeing strong men and other characters at their lowest. Seeing how people write out how they would react most of the stuff I read, I would never want to happen to me or my loved ones. Hell, if my friends tell me their in a depressed state, I'm not gonna leave them to dry (like some people).

Lily also really has the biggest balls to call professional writers bad when she only writes fanfiction she's done it with RS, ND, and Dana. As if she could do better. I write fanfiction, and I would never put myself up there with actual show writers and published authors she brings up her shit Star Wars fic, saying how her fan base around the story wanted to see the angst that she scrapped out then proceeded to call them all racist and sexist for wanting angst. This shows that her fic is so boring that people want to see more things happen.

And now we are finally towards the end of this garbage video, where she brings up how, in her personal life, she used to like being called names, and her "friends" told her it's just a kink and it doesn't mean anything but her therapist told her it's a problem she then goes onto say that she was making herself worse until she met people who loved her and that kink went away... now I'm glad she was able to fix her own problem, but that's not a universal thing. Some people need outlets, and kinks can sometimes help. It's not for everyone but to call people liars, freaks, and judge them for their own outlets is a fucked up thing to do.

Lastly, no writer has the intention of having their audience of kids jacking off to torture scenes. I think that says more about you, Lily, if that's what your conclusion was. The writers weren't freaks because you thought it was hot.

Do yourselves a favor and don't take mental health advice or writing advice from Lily.

#Youtube #lily orchard #lily orchard critical #the legend of korra #the owl house #she ra #avatar korra #luz noceda #anti lily orchard

43 notes · View notes

liquidorcard · 3 months ago

Text

Okay, part two. Let's go girls, gays and theys, Papa Polarity ain't saved yet.

[Part 1] [Part3]

Lily Commits Elder Gay Mutant Abuse, feat. "Eldritch Lily" (Part 2)

Everything gets worse . . .

4:13: Lily mischaracterizes Charles Xavier, throws up a Martin Luthor King quote she either doesn't understand or didn't read carefully enough, going full whyte. (Never go full whyte.)

How much do I need to dignify this by explaining why this is fucking asinine? Charles is a pacifist for the most part. A recognized and respected form of activism and protest. Like, the least charitable interpretation of what Lily's trying to say here is that figures like Gahndi, Abbie Hoffman, and dear old MLK himself are posers complicit in the oppression two of them lost their fucking life to.

That quote is referring to white people passively complicit in racism that just want black people to shut the fuck up Lily-- not passive forms of activism.

You know, it's one thing to be profoundly fucking wrong about cartoons, it's an entirely different beast when you're profoundly wrong about shit like this. Absolutely fucking ghoulish.

It feels weird pivoting back to the costumed vigilantes with funky genes, but we gotta keep going. Ironically for how much Lily is focusing on the movies here-- one of my issues with the way Charles is portrayed is he keeps casually threatening people/doing shady shit and getting away with it. Makes you question why it's framed as okay when he does it and not when it's Erik. Charles isn't a saint, he shouldn't be portrayed as one, and there's a lot of thematic dissonance when the films feel the need to lampshade the shit he gets up to less he lose the moral high ground.

4:50: OH HERE WE GO.

5:00: Lily goes on a long rant about the "activists who GO TOO FAR" trope in media.

I technically agree with her, but I can tell by the examples she's giving that she's parroting things Hbomberguy said in his RWBY video, just in a less charitable tone. So, really I agree with Hbomberguy.

She's not wrong that the BoM and Magneto sometimes wanders into this territory (I mean, they were originally 'The Brotherhood of Evil Mutant' and all that) unfortunately, but she hasn't supported that position at all. I have to assume she's heard this brought up somewhere else, this isn't exactly a unique take by any means. I doubt she's actually familiar enough with the content to create an original cohesive argument.

Lily doesn't like moral ambiguity in her media. That would be fine if she wasn't this butthurt that other people feel very differently.

6:05: "And yes, you knew we were getting to it! [ . . .] Almost all of Legend of Korras main villians start at a good through line. But then some twist comes up that makes everything they said before completely pointless."

THESE TWO, "START AT A GOOD THROUGH LINE!?"

LILLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

6:15: "Season one's Amon is a socialist activist who cares about the oppression of non-benders by benders-- until it turns out that he doesn't."

I know this is a popular interpretation of the equalitists, especially given that their name is 'the equalists,' but actually the show never gives us enough information about the sociopolitical dynamics of benders and non-benders to say for sure. I'm not going to get into it here, if you want my full breakdown and analysis on the social politics of Avatar, let me know. In summary, it's tempting to assume benders would be the dominant class as they have literal powers, but that's not really how systemic power works. There's conflicting inference on what the dynamics are, and it may be different depending on the nation. The equalists are schrodinger's activists. They could be the Black Panthers, they could be the Proud Boys. That is not me making a false equivalency between those two groups, it's just never established if their perceived systemic persecution is real or imagined.

This isn't really a criticism of Lily. That it is so ambiguous is a flaw in the show. The interpretation Amon is supposed to be a socialist is as valid as any. Well. . . It's an extremely reductive interpretation of a socialist, and I know Lily doesn't know what a socialist actually is, but I'm trying to be charitable when possible here.

I do LIKE Korra myself, to be clear. But, yeah. There's problems.

6:31: "Season four's Kuvira wants to stitch the Earth Kingdom back together but doesn't want to restore an oppressive monarchy like everyone else does. And then declares that she is the dictator of the Earth Kingdom."

Yeah, that is just a thing that has happened in history, Lily. When there's a power vacuum left by a sudden or violent upheaval of a tyrant, unfortunately often another tyrant at least attempts to take their place. This is one of the reasons why former colonies struggle to cultivate stability-- societies and communities can get fucked in the ass by this kind of shit. This isn't a pro-monarchy message Lily-- consider maybe trying to learn things now and again.

This is why people call you a fake leftist Lily. Doing (relatively) minor gestures of good will like handing out food for a short period then pulling the rug out from under the people once they're complicit is right out of the facist playbook. You are virtually doing the exact thing you accused Rebecca Sugar of, but for real.

You're being outfoxed by a kid's show again.

6:44: "Season two's Unalaq [you get the idea.]"

Lily is pro gentrification until you involve demon kites I guess. I'm confused why she thinks he ever had any good intentions, it's telegraphed immediately he's a bad dude. He's also by far the worst villain-- as in, the worst written.

7:10: "All of them go 'the status quo is bad therefore commence genocide' like they got their political theory from fucking Vaush."

By your line of thinking so did Firelord Sozin:

youtube

"I had my own vision for a brighter future . . ."

I don't like Vaush either, but-- this isn't even the pot calling the kettle black. This is the blackened grime on the pot calling the kettle black.

GOD THIS VIDEO IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT MAGNETO. WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT KORRA FOR ALMOST THIS WHOLE POST.

7:19: "The entire show you're watching Korra become a stooge for the status quo every single time. 'The problem isn't that the system is bad, it's that the wrong people are in charge.' And then they inevitably change the status like bringing democracy to the Earth Kingdom and you're left wondering-- wait, why wasn't the other person doing this!?"

I did not edit those two statements together. That is, in fact, Lily pointing out why her own arguments are stupid in the very next breath. Thanks for saving me the effort, I guess.

7:45: "Why weren't the characters you set up to do these things . . . Doing the things?!"

Because they weren't set up to do these things Lily. They're the antagonists. They ideologically were designed to be foils for Korra to overcome.

Korra's political messages aren't even that deep, and yet you're this incapable from telling even obvious totalitarian right-wing ideology and mild liberalism apart.

8:10: "It's so nakedly obvious how protective of the status quo these stories are."

This is, in a very abstract way, a valid criticism of Korra. This is a common problem in a lot of media, and Korra is far from the worst offender. I think it does breach past this to some extent, just not as much as I would have personally liked with all its seasons.

But make no mistake this is Lily again, taking something Lily has seen someone else say and putting that opinion through a blender.

Let's not beat around the bush here, Lily just wanted to bitch about Korra again. It's almost like she thinks if she repeats her idiotic media analysis enough, maybe THIS time people will realize how brilliant she is.

8:27: "A victim of abuse, torture or r@pe trying to kill her [only 'her,' huh?] abuser in vengeance is right to do so."

Okay, that's enough of this for now. Part 3 coming soon.

35 notes · View notes