#anti Sansa-Haters

[emmitaaa4]

hey lovelies, i feel like we all know this already, but this is my 1st post and all i wanna say is…

elain archeron 🤝 sansa stark:

traditionally feminine characters, reduced to their blatant beauty, who have been made dolls to dress up & groomed to be the missing pieces to a man’s happy ending. middle sisters who have seen their fathers die and have had too many things happen to them yet carry on quietly, women who have learned to navigate their environments and who are so intimately aware of the roles they were born into that they’ve learned to survive by playing into them. by playing them (& in elain’s case, probably pulling strings behind the scenes). they are underestimated & overlooked—by fellow characters AND fandom alike—condemned and scrutinized for their flaws & the mistake they made… essentially collecting a fandom’s vitriol in universes where beloved (male) characters are much older & have done much worse, but that’s a convo for another time.

more of us should acknowledge that the “trembling fawn” and the “little dove” have grown from the “naive/superficial” façade we initially saw them for (it is an outdated one at that), and are more than other’s narrow sighted assessments of them: they have developed into socially savvy women, women who have made of observation an art form, who bottle everything up as they mask themselves with demure manners & saccarine smiles… and show themselves in gestures & well placed quips. those flaws and mistakes haters love to bring up? they exist and it is what makes them two of the most real/human characters in their respective series.

elain may live in the shadow of the stronger—that is more vocal/promiment—personalities of her entourage, she might not make ppl quake in their boots in fear (yet), and she may diverge from the more pupular « stabby sassy warrior » characterization of the YA archetype, but from the bottom of my heart, so what? i don’t see how that makes her any less interesting or significant, and i’d actually argue the opposite. you know, as much as people online may disregard elain and claim that we know nothing about her, that she’s weak and boring and useless, i’d just respond that there’s a world to see when you pay attention to her.

…

or maybe none of what i’ve said makes sense and it’s all bull, but sue me. it’s 2am, i need to be awake for thermodynamics in 6h, and i cant sleep cause im frustrated cause i love my thoughtful, creepy witchy Seer who downs bourbon at family functions (same)—and wish ppl would at least give her a chance to tell the story that’s stuck in the back of her throat.

[stannis-the-freaking-mannis]

asoiaf character bracelets ii!!

(i fucked up a few)

[fromtheseventhhell]

I'm rewatching the season 8 of GOT, and it's amazing how it gets worse each time each time I notice a new inconsistency. the fact that the prophecy was for nothing, and how with arya killing the night king it made me understand that anyone could kill him, this person just had to have aegon's dagger in their hands like (???)

Why would you do that to yourself?? Forget rewatching, I haven't even watched the final episode (and I never will) 😭

The past few seasons of that show made no sense and I'm tired of people pretending otherwise. It was literally that "anyone could've killed him"; they just shuffled through characters to find one that "felt right" and even considered the Hound or Brienne. The only options should've been Jon or Dany, but Jon would've been "too obvious" (as though being able to tell where the plot is going is a bad thing) and Dany killing the Night King would've been "too heroic" for a character they desperately wanted to demonize. So we were left with...what we got, which really highlights how poorly D&D handled all of these characters. They made Arya's story all about being a fighter, erasing the majority of her development from the books, and then they didn't even make space for her to use those skills. Her face-changing skills never came up after she killed the Freys, she didn't carry out any actual assassinations (they didn't even consider sending her to kill Cersei?), and if they hadn't decided that she would kill the Night King she wouldn't have done anything significant. With the "Ed Sheeran was a surprise for Maisie's last season" thing I doubt they even initially planned for her to survive the entire time, which would've made her story even more pointless. They put no effort into writing her character and just did "whatever was most badass", but I'm supposed to believe that their writing for Arya is anywhere close to what George is writing for her 🥴

[helaenasaegon]

Holy shit, J*nsa shippers are fucking annoying. I usually manage to avoid them, but I just saw some, and Oh my God. 🙄

[feydrautha]

Nothing funnier than seeing Targ stans go "before HOTD no one cared about the Hightowers they were a minor forgotten house in ASOIAF and Tyrell vassals, Jonsas and Targ haters are at work again" as if 1. it's surprising that people are paying attention to a smaller house now that it's a major house during the time of the show 2. it's utterly impossible that someone likes the antagonists besides Sansa stans for another reason that they hate Dany and project that dislike onto Rhaenyra and Daemon

[long-claw]

⚠️this is anti jonsa and jonrya if you don't want to read please just don't i'm not interested in arguing⚠️

so i mostly just try and avoid jonsa and jonrya posts cause i'm not a fan but ultimately i agree with letting people ship what they want, and for the most part it's not harming anyone and i just hope that the shippers don't have siblings lmao

but i just need to rant for a sec because why do so many jonsa and jonrya shippers want it to be canon in the books?? and are convinced one or the other will be canon in the books? because, like, that would make jon (a character the shippers presumably like) a canon pedo!

setting aside the incest (which is hard but clearly a lost cause) i can understand aus and that by the end of the show sophie turner and maisie williams were adults but in the books sansa's 13 and arya's 11, whereas jon's 17! which, in my books, would make him a nonce 😭

like i get it's a different time and god knows how much of this fandom just don't care about adults being with literal children but i love jon and he's already canonically fucked his aunt in the show so i'd really also rather he doesn't fuck his literal child sisters/cousins, is that too much to ask people to not campaign for?

not to mention it's not just any 13 and 11 year olds but ones he watched grow up and as someone with a 14 year old sister i can't even wrap my head around her being a teenager, like she's fully still a baby to me, so it's just so weird to me.

anyway just a bit of a mean thing to wish upon a pretty morally sound character... at least in the context of asoiaf. grrm please don't move jon to the same category as the likes of tyrion, drogo and jorah 🙏

[confusingwizard]

am I the only one who gets viscerally uncomfortable about jonsa and or especially jon/arya? Ignoring the current age gaps, Sansa doesn't really see Jon as a brother but they still grew up with a somewhat familial relationship, and Arya sees him as a brother and as I remember even calls him a brother. I just can't see the appeal

[kellyvela]

I will never get over the fact that Sansa antis use her classism to defend their hatred like??? Yes of course she's classist, all of Asoaif's protagonists are. Have you forgotten that all of them are upholding a feudalistic system based and believe their noble bloodlines to be a virtue? Like of course she's not a modern progressive feminist girl boss queen, none of them are. Not Arya, not Dany. And like if you can stan Tyrion and his pedophilic tendencies, you can tolerate Sansa's naiveness

If classism is the reason, then they surely hate every other member of the great houses and every other member of the nobility in general, right? No? NO?

Are you telling me that their fave feminist queens are the ones that slut shame, call feminine girls stupid and command rape victims to marry their rapers? What? WHAT?

Tyrion should die . . . . painfully.

[witchqueenvisenya]

you do know people can stan both sansa and dany, right? like you don’t have to pit woman against woman just because some people might not like dany. and calling a girl who was r*ped, abused, used by the most evil men, and given away by more evil men like some object, a “red headed brat” is super gross patriarchal type of energy. can’t stand pseudo feminists like you. support woman. stop bashing them because some people were mean to your “fave character”. grow up.

you do know that your condescending tone isn't going to warm anyone up to your classist bullying redheaded brat who cannot even understand why starving people would hate miss lemon cakes. in restrospect the tyrells did right by her. they felt the bad vibes. post show canon sansa is being dragged and beheaded as you read this anon. but i hope you can scream happily in your self-congratulatory dream <3

[lizzie-queenofmeigas]

It blows my mind cause on one hand Targ haters call the dragons nukes and downplay Daenerys’s bond with them, on the other they came up with “Sunfyre best bond” stuff to woobify Aegon II; on one hand they praise Aemond for using Vhagar as a war machine, on the other bash Rhaenyra for “spoiling” Syrax and not using her as a nuke ??

It's tiring really. They remind me of the Sansa stans that are Targaryen antis, but then they go to write fics giving Sansa everything Targaryen related, like dragons.

[esther-dot]

What upsets me the most about the dumbass Sansa vs Arya thing (other than it only existing because antis hate Sansa that much) is that... what does it add to the story? This isn't fandom stuff, this is something antis genuinely want for the story, but what does it ADD? What is the POINT? What value does these 2 siblings fighting against each other would give to the story? To the message and theme? It's even more worthless than the boring Cleganebowl shit.

Sansa and Arya, two siblings from the main family of the series that the story centers on, fighting and hating each other is detrimental to literally EVERYTHING. ASOIAF is LOADED with family dynamics that are actually toxic and destructive to the members. We have the Targaryens, we have the Greyjoys, we have the LANNISTERS. Westeros is so bereft of families that love each other, making the ONE family that genuinely love each other and doing their best to reunite hate each other is so... just spit on GRRM and the effort he put into House Stark, why don't you?

I don't want to sound like a pretentious ass, but these people should not read a series like ASOIAF if they're gonna let their petty feelings and opinions impact the series as a whole. They can hate Sansa, but if they hate her to the point where it impacts their reading of the series, then put it down and go read something simpler. Or just stick to fanfics because their disturbing hate fantasy will never be canon, sorry antis

(about this ask)

I talked about this before and now can’t find the post, but Arya and Jon fans who hate Sansa are holding her responsible for the problems with society that Martin is criticizing. They are missing that society is being criticized from different angles to allow us to see all the ways it’s hurting people. Rather than realizing it isn’t the little girl who caused their pain, with them we are getting two critiques (coming from different directions) of their world. Jon is excluded, Arya is expected to conform.

Jon wants in, Arya wants out.

And of course, Sansa suffers as well. She may fulfill the ideal in a way that Arya cannot, but that doesn’t save her. We have Elia and Lyanna which is another picture of conformity/non-conformity —both of them die. There is a much larger part of the story here that is the driving force of what these characters suffer, it’s a shame to dismiss all of that in order to hate on Sansa.

I have no gatekeeping instinct. I’m happy to read different takes (within reason — absolutely no Sansa hate which is why I don’t do much with anyone beyond our corner), I have read and written Martin critical stuff, I don’t mind people coming away with different interpretations. I enjoy that (within reason), and that’s a part of who I am beyond fandom so that isn’t gonna change. I simply decide, “well, I certainly never want to hear from that blogger/that part of the fandom again,” but as far as I know, they’re an angry 13yo who will reread the series in a year or two and realize, oh, the Sansa and Arya conflict is created by external forces, and actually, they can understand the pressures Sansa struggled with as well. I’m a big fan of leaving room for growth, and literature has a special way of allowing us to see things in new ways and helping us evolve as I individuals. I’d never be in favor of taking it away from anyone no matter how much I think they misunderstand it. You never know what the future holds and if one day, they’ll get it.

Also, I don’t have a perfect grasp on what Martin is doing myself. The endgame of some of the characters strikes me as….uh, less realistic, and more, whimsical, so unless I’m gonna throw out my books, I’m not gonna pretend to be more deserving than any one else. I will filter and block though because when it comes to Sansa haters:

making the ONE family that genuinely love each other and doing their best to reunite hate each other is so... just spit on GRRM and the effort he put into House Stark, why don't you?

So, uh, not to annoy you further, anon, but I didn’t call what I had written “wish-fulfillment” for nothing. 😬 I definitely think expecting the Starks to kill each other is absurd, but as a Jonsa, I’m not sure how Arya would be able to accept that relationship, and I do wonder if it’s Martin’s way of allowing tension and conflict within the Starks even upon their reunion. Maybe I worry for nothing, but Jon is Arya’s person, he made her feel love and accepted, for him to be in love with Sansa…I worry that Arya would feel displaced, and how quickly Martin would find a resolution there.

Many others have previously looked at how Martin seems to have no problem writing brothers / guys having healthy relationships, but likes to have sisters at odds. There’s a dearth of healthy female relationships, so it’s an opportunity for him to break that pattern, and if Arya was accepting of it I suppose it could be a contrast to the Cat/LF/Lysa mess. That may be the goal he’s working towards, and to your point, that adds to the story in sadly lacking area. All the same, while I do think the Starks love and will be loyal to each other, I’m not sure how warm and cozy things will be on the page? I have some concerns about what he’s making room for. But that is the benefit of being in a fandom with so many emotionally mature fic writers who value and prioritize female relationships. I get to read healthy relationships either way!

[horizon-verizon]

Daenerys is foreshadowed to have a third child (NOT WITH FUCK ASS JON, STAY AWAY FROM HER), as per her child of three prophecy. Daenerys’ antis can seethe about that as much as they like, and write shallow and flowery purple prose metas about House Targaryen being a snake eating its own tail, but Daenerys will have a child.

I want her to have a girl named FOR her mother Rhaella (Daenerys always needed a mother so I’m hoping she gets to have a daughter) and I think the child she miscarried in ADWD was a girl, but I do think she’ll end up having a boy. She already has two sons named after Rhaegar (Rhaego and Rhaegal), so per rule of three, she’ll probably have a third son named after him.

She is already a mother (to her dragons, her people, the slaves she freed), being a mother is a core aspect of her identity. Those people (you know, a very specific brand of hater that pretend to stan Daenerys but want her to sacrifice herself for the greater good and don’t want her to have biological children) use liberal feminist talking points to justify their desire to see an orphan teenage girl miserable, dead and alone. Mind you, they’d never argue that being a mother undermines Visenya, Catelyn, Cersei, Elia, Helaena, Alicent, or Lyanna, and most of them believes that Sansa will have children.

Ah, I see why now that some people speculate over specific details like the probability of her kids' names now--bc others argue that her becoming a mother at all would inherently both negate the anti-authority/feudal "barbarism"/pre-facism that somehow Dany/Targs embody in their minds AND that it'd undermine her femme-can-be-powerful vision.

That is so funny, bc if you actually believed a woman can be powerful and enjoy what she willingly and freely decides to do for building a family of her own, you would not flagrantly argue that, basically, her eggs would inevitably breed a "mad" scion NOR try to argue that a woman--again, when she has the power and resources to independently raise/protect children herself or with trusted people around her, nearly uninterrupted by a *shudder* a man (I myself have thought abt how I'd mother and this was the most alluring prospect...IF I ever have kids in this economy...could be projecting but idts bc for Dany is this has been shown to be just....more than ideal, necessary kinda?)--inevitably loses her some of, if not moat/all, agency when she births children of her own. Forgetting--getting back to the previous dashed info--that with Dany, this wouldn't be even in the same breath of the context that those arguers imagine and have observed for non-regnant women.

It is interesting how they never argued for how Visenya, etc. aren't "undermined"...probably bc they see how it is officially or know in the inherited social knowledge of Westerso that Aegon I was THE ruler while his sisters were "just" consorts. Same for the rest, except maybe Sansa whom they'd seem (I am assuming, I haven't seen anything abt them arguing for Sansa's motherhood) to pose as a lady regnant, esp after the damage of GoT.

[jackoshadows]

can you tag your sansa stark posts as anti sansa stark? I’m not telling you to remove the main tag but just add the anti one

Just block me and move on.

It’s weird how fans of the character feel that canon Sansa quotes from the books is anti Sansa.  Meanwhile Arya and Jon stans have to deal with murder baby Arya and incompetent Jon or unrelated quotes randomly put together to rewrite relationships. Maybe that's why the Arya and Jon tags are so full of headcanon Sansa that most of the time feels like an unrecognizable OC.

And then in the comments there is someone who has ‘not read the books in years’ telling me that I lack reading comprehension  😂

And this is while there is so much racist Arya fanart from Sansa stans on the Arya Stark tag despite repeated requests from poc to stop doing this.

It's honestly so depressing to go on the Arya Stark tag and see fanart on the tag or sidebars - because racist art is so popular in fandom!! - where canonically white Arya is differentiated from her more classically beautiful sister by simply drawing her in darker skin tones. At this point it's clear that artists are aware of the racist implications of doing this and still continue to do this because they don't care.

And yet using a Sansa book quote is supposedly 'anti Sansa' and needs to be tagged as such. I guess the tags should only be used for headcanons of racist caricatures of ‘ugly’ Arya and beautiful blue eyed, whitey white Sansa being the best sisters ever and nothing else.

I think the problem for many Sansa stans is that they stay in their echo chambers with their made up headcanons so that when they do venture outside that chamber to posts by other readers on the tag using the books, they are shocked and think there is some sort of unfair crusade going on against their fave.

I am not saying staying within fandom spaces is totally wrong btw. We all curate our fandom experiences on Tumblr. This app in particular allows us to block out ships or opinions we don’t particularly like. I am sure my group of mutuals and fans, including me, who reblog and follow posts have a similar kind of groupthink.

However, what’s fascinating with Sansa stans in particular is that Sansa is so much of a self-insert at this point that 90% of the character is headcanons. Her most popular ships are crackships, her relationships with her siblings has been re-written, she is now the underdog and outcast etc.

This has happened to me so many times -  I make a post, a Sansa stan responds saying I am wrong, I don’t know how to read, I am a hater etc., I respond with book quotes and ask them to read the books, I am called uncivil and then immediately blocked (they just have to get that last word in!) Rinse and repeat.

Take the post that got me the above message for example.

“I’m not like Arya,” Sansa blurted. “She has the traitor’s blood, not me.”   - Sansa, AGoT

This is really not what happens in that chapter at all. Sansa does not really think of Arya, admits to forgetting about her at the end and it’s only in the next chapter she thinks that Arya may have gotten away on the galley Ned had arranged for them (Which does not happen thanks to Sansa’s tattling of Ned’s plans and Cersei placing Lannister guards on the galley).

At this point Arya is still trapped in KL trying to get out and it’s only been 3 days since Ned has been arrested. However, as per this person, Sansa is begging them not to torture and kill her and therefore names Arya, who she thinks is already safe in Winterfell, 3 days after the Starks and their men are taken down....

In the OP, I have used the most basic quotes, but in the actual chapter it’s far worse. Sansa is actually still dreaming of marrying beautiful prince Joffrey when she is taken to meet Cersei:

That night Sansa dreamt of Joffrey on the throne, with herself seated beside him in a gown of woven gold. She had a crown on her head, and everyone she had ever known came before her, to bend the knee and say their courtesies.

“Sweet Sansa,” Queen Cersei said, laying a soft hand on her wrist. “Such a beautiful child. I do hope you know how much Joffrey and I love you.”

“You do?” Sansa said, breathless. Littlefinger was forgotten. Her prince loved her. Nothing else mattered. (---)

“She is a sweet thing now, but in ten years, who can say what treasons she may hatch?”

“No,” Sansa said, horrified. “I’m not, I’d never … I wouldn’t betray Joffrey, I love him, I swear it, I do.” (---)

“And yet, I fear that Lord Varys and the Grand Maester have the right of it. The blood will tell. I have only to remember how your sister set her wolf on my son.”

“I’m not like Arya,” Sansa blurted. “She has the traitor’s blood, not me. I’m good, ask Septa Mordane, she’ll tell you, I only want to be Joffrey’s loyal and loving wife.” - Sansa, AGoT

And then at the very end of the chapter:

It was not until later that night, as she was drifting off to sleep, that Sansa realized she had forgotten to ask about her sister. - Sansa, AGoT

So yes, Sansa is scared of not being able to marry Joffrey anymore, frightened of being accused as a traitor like her father and therefore throws out Arya’s name as the traitor - when as far as she knows Arya is in KL and Lannisters could have Arya, the same as her.

Next,

This is the funniest part! - ‘I haven’t read these books in a few years, however, it’s you who is very much lacking reading comprehension’ 😂😂😂

Make it make sense please. And then we are back to the usual Sansa is just a child, she’s 11 goddammit! She’s a teeny tiny baby! It’s totally justified for her to throw her even younger 9 year little sister under the bus as a traitor to be tortured or killed by the likes of Joffrey and Cersei instead of her.

And then finally, the predictable conclusion:

And block! 

Because of course made up headcanons are ‘alternative interpretations’ and if we point out it’s fanfiction then we are being uncivil.

I can only say that I am glad that my side of the fandom don’t engage in this much fanfiction, projections and headcanons. It’s frustrating as a book fan to be told that I lack reading comprehension because I don’t accept their ‘alternative interpretations’ of how Sansa thinks Arya is safe in Winterfell three days after the Lannisters massacred all the Stark men and imprisoned Ned stark. And while Arya herself is still stuck inside KL unable to leave.

At this point I really do think there is no point in engaging with these stans because they are not doing this in good faith. Just block rather than waste time discussing. They seem to think that we need to accept their headcanons as book canon and if we don’t then we are simply anti Sansa posting anti Sansa stuff on the tags. It’s certainly a fascinating fandom aspect of a self insert fan favorite. It’s the reason she wins polls above more complex and well written characters in the books, the popular version of her is entirely about what fans project onto the character rather then actual written version in the books.

[ladymorghul]

There is one thing I've noticed among the green fandom when it comes to comparing HotD and GoT characters. They often say that "Sansa to Alicent pipeline" is real and that (almost) every Alicent fan is also a Sansa stan, while Rhaenyra fans/TB are or used to be Dany stans. Now, there is definitely some truth in this since there are indeed many people who (annoyingly and wrongly imho) see in Rhaenyra new Daenerys and her side as "more Targaryen", but the problem is that I've seen people get attacked for being greens but also Daenerys fans. For example, for me, during GoT it was always Daenerys >>Sansa, just like now it's undoubtedly Alicent >> Rhaenyra. But it seems to me that this opinion is extremely rare and not really welcome among the green fans. Like, it's a bit weird to be extremely anti - Targ but at the same time strongly support one side of Targaryen family. Idk if you've written or discussed this, but it is a bit curious how many people think that if you like Alicent in HotD, then you must also be a Sansa fan in GoT.

i've defenitely discussed this before because unfortunately some green stans are targaryen haters and dany haters. and i was also feeling a little uneasy with this fact because i do love dany a lot and find targaryens to be really fascinating.

i guess at times i was, on the outside, more sansa towards the end of got just because it seemed sansa was getting so much unnecessary hate but i also completely understood dany's pov. following dany's story through got was amazing and no matter what haters say, at the end of the day, daenerys is one of the most iconic characters.

i don't believe that if you're a green stan you're automatically a sansa stan, but you're right in that it seems that people who like dany are shunned and kept on the outside when it comes to green stans.

i completely agree with you about how weird it is to be a targ hater and be a green stan. like come on... be for real.

[president-and-godemperor-forlife]

Sansa antis back on their bullshit again. You wanna be a hater to the literal princess of the song? Fine. Do it on the anti tag. If you wanna use this site at least learn the etiquette.

[la-pheacienne]

Hi! I love your blog and your replies in general. I am curious as to why do you think the majority of the book fandom latched unto Mysaria/Laena/Nettles, but despises Rhaenyra so much? I mean, out of all the women in Daemon's life, she is the one that always receives hate while the others are idealized and I never understood why. I mean, Daemon seemed to love her company, her personality, to spend time with her both before and after marriage...

My personal guess is that there's a combination between fatphobia (Rhaenyra was not exactly fat, but she did not remained as slender as before her pregnancies), and the fact that Rhaenyra has by far the strongest personality out of all of them and can't be used as a self-insert for projecting whatever the readers want on her.

(It's also the fact that Rhaenyra was hated and slandered the most by the maesters and the sources, but some readers seem to forget that)

I might be wrong, but this is the impression I got while seeing the horrible names Rhaenyra is called and everything.

Anyway, I'm sorry this turned out to be so long. Have a wonderful day!

Hello! Thank you so much nonnie 💖

Idk, are we certain that the majority of the book fandom absolutely despises Rhaenyra while latching unto Mysaria/Laena/Nettles? I think that the Tumblr and Reddit fanbase are definitely very hostile to Rhaenyra but not the general fandom. That's my impression, but I'm open for different points of view, because I don't really know. I think the general fanbase understands the deal with Rhaenyra, because the general fanbase is not made of Targaryen haters. Actually, the vast majority of fans of GRRM's work love House Targaryen and I think that's in the heart of the discussion.

The people that hate Rhaenyra so much are mainly Targaryen antis, so they loooove anyone that poses a "threat" (either real or perceived) to House Targaryen represented by Rhaenyra. Mysaria and Nettles are examples, Laena is more the innocent, perfect female character that died too soon so we can project whatever the fuck we want onto her.

The other reason is misogyny, straight and simple. First of all the misogyny runs so deep in the fanbase that people(at least those who do not like the Blacks) cannot even recognize this whole dance happened because of misogyny. They're like yeaaaaah but duty and sacrifice you know, she doesn't deserve the throne... Why? Well basically because she's a whore. That's the argument. Rhaenyra is a whore. And not even a perfect whore, because she got ugly and fat and old and her hubby ChEaTED on her with a younger hotter girl and THAT'S what happens to dirty evil WhOrEs like her, they turn into OLD HAGS and NOBODY wants them and EVERYBODY betrays them because they're WHORES. That's literally the general argument green stans have. The pleasure they derive from the possibility that Daemon sexually harassed a little girl, just for the implications this could have on Rhaenyra, is frankly disturbing. They literally want Rhaenyra to be punished for simply daring to claim her birthright while being a woman.

Fatphobia and ageism are also two huge factors. I mean I've seen her being called old fat hag too many times for me to ignore that.

So yeah, a combination of Targaryen hate, misogyny, fatphobia and ageism. Rhaenyra is not perfect and she ends up becoming a tyrant but the inability of a big part of the fanbase to recognise her tragic arc and the factors that made her that way is disgusting.

Also kind of irrelevant but it's useful as an indicator. All this glorification of women that have a minor role to the story like Mysaria, Nettles, Laena, Helaena, and in GOT Elia, even Sansa (she is mainly a secondary character in the book sorry), is really tiring and boring to me. You like what you like of course, but when I see blogs like that I just know it's a red flag. The issue with this is that they are pretending to side with poor victimised women but all they do is shit on other stronger female characters, like Dany, Arya or Rhaenyra. It's always a facade of hatred towards female characters that are central to the story, again, in a combination of Targaryen hatred, misogyny, fatphobia and ageism (depending on which character they're hating on each time).

(I'm kind of generalising of course, because I too love most of these female characters, I mean I love Laena and I do love Sansa but I don't really care about them, I guess? And of course these characters are not exactly equivalent, I mean Sansa is much more important than the others, I'm just generalising because I see a certain pattern of stanning victimised little girls and shitting on the main imperfect female characters)