#and women are being dismissed and all this awful shit

[mars-ipan]

this is gonna sound incredibly virtue signal-y i fear but i have been feeling. so fiercely protective of all the transfems i've ever met lately

[exeggcute]

[walking confidently into a live minefield] I can't say for sure how we reached the point where "trans women everywhere (read as: everywhere online) oppress/hate/are secretly plotting the downfall of trans men" is a thing that people think is both true and reasonable to believe, but I think at least one factor is a stupid vicious cycle of bad actors and gullible bystanders where, like. you have some guys engaging in shitty misogynistic behavior > some women either try to explain why this behavior is shitty and misogynistic (to no avail) or just disengage entirely > instead of learning from this, the guys act all wounded about it > outside observers who don't have a great grasp on the situation (or maybe don't have great grasp on how misogyny functions in general, or think that only cis men can engage in misogynistic behaviors, or have some kind of unconscious hang-up against trans women) see this and think aw man, these poor dudes are getting ragged on for no reason! > people who weren't necessarily doing the original shitty misogynistic behavior are falsely pointing the finger at trans women for "starting shit" > this is obviously fucking irritating, and no one has an infinite well of patience, so after calmly defending themselves however many times, some of these ladies are just gonna start telling bad-faith jokers to fuck off > shitty dudes and gullible bystanders go "see, they're doing it again! those man-hating harpies!" > women continue to be irritated and (understandably) defensive, tell bad-faith jokers to fuck off > and so on and so forth.

and to be clear "vicious cycle" does not mean "oh well really it's everyone's fault for being involved in the whole mess." I think there's a pretty clear cause and effect here where if you're dismissive of women's voices and viewpoints, and hold them to unfair standards, and just generally aren't very nice, they might not be very nice to you in return. and why should they be!

[pillarsalt]

hi um

I was? transmasc but recently I’ve been seeing a lot of really misogynistic sexist transphobic stuff from trans community and it’s just been totally accepted, even by other transmascs. It’s been going on for a while but recently there was a murder of a nonbinary afab person and yet the whole trans community here has been silent, instead screaming about a transfem user being banned or something? This isn’t the first time an afab trans persons suffering has been dismissed, but now right after this awful death, i see transfems making posts about how transmascs talking about their oppression are terfs.

I didn’t want to think about it but all i could think about was that it was weird how despite everyone claiming trans men have all this privilege, trans women always come first…they get the most representation, they get the fame the admiration and the opportunities, their voices are always the loudest and their problems always always come first no matter what.

But despite popular belief trans men’s issues aren’t actually less significant, in some cases we suffer far more than trans women especially in regard to sexual violence. Yet we are silenced. We are frequently left poor, we are discriminated against for our sex we are discriminated against for being trans we are discriminated against for being perceived as lesbians. Yet we are made to be silent?

Why are our voices less important than trans women’s?

And all I could think about was that this is how females are treated in every other area.

I don’t know what else to say… I tried so hard not to reach that conclusion because I don’t want to be transmysogynist but I kept coming back to it and I couldn’t find an argument against it. This is how females are treated. This is what male privilege look like. And if trans women have male privilege, then why the fuck am I sitting here letting them talk over me?

I just feel really really angry. Your a blog who I liked your art but I blocked you when I discovered you were a radfem, but I sort of had you in the back of my mind for some reason and now I feel lost and confused, and I don’t think I want to be part of the trans community anymore.

Hey anon, firstly I really appreciate your willingness to have an open discussion with me. This must be weighing on you pretty heavily.

Secondly, holy shit, you're right. While the entire website is treating this user's ban as a national travesty, I haven't seen a single person talking about Nex's murder despite how much they claim to care about trans people. That's really fucking low, and this situation does very much encapsulate the state of misogyny within the trans community.

And you're right, this IS how females are treated in every other area. Throughout history, the suffering and injustice women face is minimized, laughed at, ignored, and when we want to talk about it, we're shut down and told we're making people uncomfortable and our pain isn't that bad. And here we are again, with a female person's death outweighed by a male person's inconvenience.

The denial of sex-based oppression that permeates trans spaces is a blatant lie that can only be held together if nobody is allowed to acknowledge it, and those who do are punished. If the trans community truly stood behind what they say, discussion would be encouraged! The foundation of their movement would be backed up with facts and replicable science! But instead, they'll call you a bigot for pointing out systems of oppression you can see with your own eyes. Because if you do, transwomen's position as Most Oppressed, and therefore the final authority on what's right and wrong, collapses. You are correct when you say that it seems like transwomen always come first; I don't remember who said it first, but just look at magazine covers featuring trans people -- the transwomen are fully clothed CEOs, athletes, movie stars, but transmen mostly get on magazine covers for... being pregnant and half naked. Misogyny is built into every society on earth, and individuals simply calling themselves something else doesn't change that. And when you give male people free reign to be as misogynistic as they want without consequence, they'll grab that opportunity and hold on like their lives depend on it. The way they weaponize transmen's sex against them is indistinguishable from what 'cis' men do to 'cis' women, but if you ever speak out about it, somehow YOU'RE the one hurting THEM. They do not want transmascs to find solidarity with other female people, because then they would have to face the reality of their own place in a patriarchal world, and face the fact that there are experiences exclusive to female people and that we have the right to speak about it. I mean you see shit like this and the motives become completely transparent:

I do find it funny how hard the trans community and their allies work to prevent anyone from hearing what radfems have to say in case they "corrupt" you with mere words. A lot of the time, it's simply listening to transwomen themselves that sparks the feeling of "something's not right here" in your brain. That's what happened with me too. I'll tell you that most of us also used to be proponents of trans activism, many formerly identifying as trans too. You are seeing through manipulation, and I know it's quite shocking to realize. Even when I first started having doubts about trans rhetoric, I thought "well everyone else agrees about this, so I need to shut up and be nice about it even if I don't agree." It's an unpleasant place to be in. The cognitive dissonance is exhausting though, and it becomes impossible to ignore.

The mistreatment of transmasc people in the trans community by transfems is brutal, and It's hard to watch from the outside because I just want to say "Hey, you know you don't have to take this shit, right?" And you really don't. You are not at all a bad person for recognizing the frankly absurd amount of misogyny in the trans community. Feeling lost and confused is shitty, but it's normal for this situation. The best thing you can do is keep observing, keep reading, form your own opinions, and never let anyone tell you to shut up. Above all, prioritize yourself and your mental wellbeing. If you need to remove yourself from gender-related spaces and discussion for a while, that's totally alright. Just know you're not evil or a bigot for not blindly agreeing with everything the trans community has told you. Your opinions and experiences are worthwhile too.

[unnaturalequilibrium]

Capítulo 5

- Mafin rewatch (Sueños de Libertad)

Isidro is possibly the father of the year. Maybe I’ll change my mind when it turns out he’s kind of homophobic, but for now that man gives some seriously good advice. I get why Fina is the way she is, oh not the mood thing, but the stability, the self-assurance. When you have someone holding you up like Isidro does, giving advice like he does, about how the best approach is to find the good sides in yourself and commit to those - I mean, yeah, it’s not hard to understand he could raise a daughter like Fina. It’s also such a nice contrast with the next scene which is the de la Reina’s sitting down for a meal and it’s just the absolute opposite. They too talk about work, but there’s no emotion and there’s no support, it’s more like open hunting season and holds none of the open vulnerability and sincerity of Fina and Isidro's conversation.

Aw man, fuck up my heart with that look Marta gives when Damian talks about how nothing makes him happier than having his kids get married and start families. All that effort she puts in and still she can’t truly make her father proud. That shit is got to sit lodged in her heart like a very jagged piece of broken glass. Also, I think this is the first glimpse of a personality hiding behind the mask.

Jesús and Andrés are two stupid boys fighting over what they think of as toys, women. I do not care for them.

Marta is a sarcastic bitch to Elena and I approve. Okay, second glimpse of a personality, nice. Broken and sarcastic, playing my tune.

That thing Spanish people do with their tongue between their teeth as they pronounce certain sounds, is it just me being gay or is it kind of hot? Granted it’s mostly Marta who is hot when she’s doing it, so I might have answered my own question.

Petra, stop fucking touching Fina! It is not your right to be that handsy and I do not care for it. Keep your scruffy looking nerf-herding paws off of her!

Fina established as a clumsy queen from the getgo tickles me. The way she practically smashed that perfume bottle through the counter as she tried to make a good impression on Marta (and failing) gives her the kind of humanity my otherwise perfect lesbian needs to be nuanced. No one likes a perfect being who looks like her, smiles like her, has that self-assuredness of hers, unless there is also some flaw too her. The fact that this is a character who is so perfect in many ways, but at the same time could probably tear down an entire china shop on her own without the assistance of any bulls - it makes her really loveable. And as a woman who have broken her toe by kicking it into a threshold and given herself a black eye by walking into a doorframe, well I feel represented. Oh, don't get me wrong, there are more flaws to Fina than this, but we're not there yet. One step at a time.

The face of a woman who does not understand the power she holds over other women. And I don't just mean that as a crack at her being lesbian catnip, but the character doesn't actually understand the impact she has on the women around her. She's so used to being compared to the men in her life that I think she doesn't see or understand what a role model she has become for a lot of women, especially those working for her.

Fina being so dismissive when Carmen tells them she’s crying because of Tasio is gold. She just has no time for these fools and I love it. Her silent nod when Carmen says “why bother with a man who doesn’t love you back” - perfection. She is the Oprah gif personified. As I regularly channel my inner Xena while I’m in a professional setting, I think from now on I’ll also try to be channelling my inner Fina when it comes to my personal relationships. As blunt, but reassuring as she is, I think we should all strive to me more like her with our friends and family.

[oacest]

I will confess that part of why I end up #teamliam is that so often Noel, the king of being a dickhead to people he cares about will claim that if you love someone you won't be a dickhead. "He's so fucking mean and violent" and it's like baby... role the tapes. I'm not even trying to dismiss his feelings I'm sure Liam was awful in ways that feel distinct from how he's awful but. remember that time you smashed his head in with a cricket bat & maybe broke his arm & all the times you've publicly talked about how fun it is to hurt him or fantasized about his violent death? and does this mean you don't love him? oh for the record you don't know what love is or when you're feeling it. ok buddy get well have fun u do u.

lmao no but you're entirely right, his behaviour is/always has been completely unhinged and horrendous where liam is concerned. all that shit he says, "i wish liam would die in a fiery car crash," "i can play him like a slightly disused arcade game," "the only thing better than making women cry is making liam cry," etc etc, is exactly the brand of emotional withdrawal and vicious defensiveness he falls back on, that makes liam get so angry in turn. but this is fundamentally not a case where taking sides works at all. both of them are simultaneously responsible for their own bad behaviour and painfully sympathetic victims of circumstance (and each other). you have to be able to look at both of them from their own perspectives AND holistically and see how they were apparently created in a lab to specifically trigger and upset one another. they're both horrible to each other, in different ways, and it's not really fair to say one is worse or the cause of the other's bad behaviour.

[formulatrash]

I was working on gaining experience in motorsport but now I don't want to anymore due to the news. I have been torn up about this since it was announced. Am I even safe working in this industry? Is it only a matter of time?

I think there are two things to take from this: even in an organisation as closed-ranks as Red Bull, this was investigated. And although it's depressing to see many people either expressing disbelief or seeking to discredit the victim, there are a much larger number of people outraged. Not just that it happened but with the entire process, including the way it is being played as a political trophy within Red Bull as an organisation and the wider reaction of Formula 1 and the FIA.

In every industry, there are imbalances in power that lead to exploitation. Ableism, racism, sexism and homophobia go hand in hand with unfairnesses like nepotism and favouritism. Some industries, especially those that people really want to work in and where there are limited opportunities, have it worse - you see it in acting, in games, in music, in motorsport.

Nowhere is safe from the structural inequalities that frame the world. In any job you'll be in some level of danger. That's not intended as a blanket scare or as some way to minimise or dismiss the specific (and extremely unpleasant) case being brought this week.

I definitely have experienced sexism and outright attempts at exploitation/abuse in motorsport. A man who's still a popular pundit spent several years lying to me and even though I'm really not this naiive, somehow convincing me to exchange lewds. Another one who's in a senior editorial position routinely sends me obscene messages. Men from teams and championships and heritage programmes have tried to get me to fuck them and I'm not young or hot or particularly desirable - it's just that I was there and a woman and so it's almost seen as obligatory that they do it, so they can dismiss you as a slut.

I wrote a little about this when the Mazepin thing came out a few years ago. It resonated with a painful number of women across motorsport, I got hundreds of messages after it was posted.

But. This is being taken seriously. There is a clear level of discomfort within the wider paddock about Horner's presence - some of that is political, it is in the teams' interests for there to be disruption at Red Bull. But a lot is clearly pretty visceral horror and anger at both the reputational damage to the sport and what's happened.

Do not let the fact that there are gross people out there deter you from a dream. Do let yourself be angry about it and mould that anger into a toolkit to address it. Look out for the people around you, try to promote positive workplace cultures, call out unpleasant behaviours, especially in scenarios where you are relatively unaffected. (eg: if you're a straight woman and someone says something gross about a gay man, if you're a white person and someone says something racist, etc)

Motorsport needs good people to work in it to change. It needs you far more than you need it. Don't let it reverse or exploit that and you will have a level of power that constitutes safety because you won't let it damage you for the sake of getting something it isn't offering. (If someone is behaving exploitatively then they are not giving you anything, they are trying to see what they can take)

It's been a shit week. I feel awful for the woman who's been doxxed, robbed of compensation and had her career ruined. Who's being discussed and discredited by the paddock, by journalists, by the most toxic fans. In a just world, people would be protecting her but that would need the population of all those groups to change significantly.

So don't let it put you off. Let it make you keener to displace them.

[bonefall]

Do you have a top 5 dotc characters line-up? Just ones you like in general

"Top 5" is really more of a... "guys I hate the least" lineup. Characters whose treatment made me so angry it's become spite-love. It's bad in here. It's REALLY bad in here.

In no particular order, the characters I like in DOTC are,

Bumble Not JUST because of how dirty she was done, either. Bumble's amazing. She's confident, she's outgoing, she's funny! She's there for Turtle Tail when Gray Wing is treating her like shit, and friendly to every cat she meets, even when they're being dicks to her. She ALWAYS does the right thing in the end and has the best interests of her friends at heart. She's a GOOD PERSON! The ONE time she was ever ANGRY at anyone was when Turtle Tail just let her get dragged back to their wifebeater. She's only part of TWO books but she's the BEST character in the entire arc, hands down, above and beyond the rest of the cast. JUSTICE for Bumble!

Bright Stream She got fridged, killed in a shocking, gruesome way, with uncomfortable detail put on how the pregnant woman probably died slowly and was eaten alive, ripped to shreds by eagles... for Clear Sky's man pain. Clear Sky literally fucking broods in a moonbeam. All because Gray Wing tripped like an idiot in a horror movie. And it was a WASTE. Bright Stream IS INTERESTING ALL ON HER OWN. Gray Wing was downplaying Clear Sky emotionally pressuring her into leaving, dismissing him going "I HOPE YOUR HUNTING SUCKS SO YOU REALIZE YOU SHOULD FOLLOW ME" with a 'good humored flick of his tail,' thirsting over how attractive Bright Stream is and how lucky Clear Sky is to have her as a mate while Bright Stream is obviously feeling upset about how her shitty husband has been talking to her. And it's actually insulting how the writers never acknowledged this-- that Clear Sky has ALWAYS been manipulative. From BOOK ONE. And then she has these absolutely bizarre Angel Fetus Children that Gray Wing coos about on his death bed, because god for-fucking-bid a single scene go by that doesn't become Clear Sky-centric.

Snake This arc tries SO bad to make this fucking guy a villain. SO hard. They describe his stinky breath and his bad teeth and how icky and gross he is, and they make him kill Frost during Clear Sky's Murder Party as if I'm supposed to blame HIM instead of the ESTABLISHED MURDERER WHO ORDERED HIS MEN TO KILL EVERYONE. Then, they choose HIM to stand up against Clear Sky after he let a murderous evil tyrant into his group against all warnings. And they treat that like it's a bad thing. Like SNAKE is the one who's awful for TELLING CLEAR SKY TO SHOVE HIS HALFHEARTED APOLOGY UP HIS UGLY ASS They even make him follow One Eye's evil lackey in the next book, like they're trying to slander him in hindsight. "Oh nonono, ackshually, Snake wasn't principled at all. He wasn't making a point about how Clear Sky let One Eye into his group and that he's sick of following tyrants. DONT WORRY. THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE CLEAR SKY ARE EVIL :)" FUCK you. I'm going to stan Snake OUT OF SPITE.

Tall Shadow While I still can't stand what they did with her and Bumble... she's an interesting character and done SO DIRTY because the writers don't fucking respect women at all They chose to have her go through a "self-confidence arc" because everyone nonsensically HATES her and just wants Gray Wing to lead, where she has to choose taking care of her burn-victim brother over leading because her "emotions" are getting in the way, only to clear up once her family is fucking dead because the books KEEP INSISTING that women in particular can't be leaders if they have an important emotional connection. And THEN they have Shaded-fucking-Moss, her predecessor, descend from heaven after Clear Sky's Murder Party to tut-tut at her for killing someone after she was THROWN INTO A CROWD OF PEOPLE TRYING TO MURDER HER, because I'm DEAD serious, god forbid women do anything. Clear Sky's got a direct body count of 3 at this point, PLUS the indirect body count of a dozen people killed on his orders, but ACTUALLY Tall Shadow is the one who deserves the fucking scolding. INSANE. And YET. She remains a practical person. She's diplomatic when she can be, and harsh when she cannot. Against all common sense, she LISTENS to Gray Wing's AWFUL advice to do Just One More peaceful meeting where maybe THIS time sucking Clear Sky's toes will work, because she is fair. I cannot help but love her.

Milkweed I haven't gotten to her in my read-along yet but she's done so dirty, too. It makes me sick. She's revealed to be a friend of Misty and distrusts the Mountain Cats for, you know... stealing all the native cats' land and murdering her friend? But don't worry, Gray Wing's here to do Clear Sky Apologetics and convince her to go join his group. While there she gets verbally accosted by Leaf, a recurring background asshole, who says she's useless, her stupid babies are stealing his food, and that when she gets sick she's just keeping the whole camp awake with her coughing. So anyway, because the Erins LOVE domestic abuse, they get shipped together lmaoo. Normal book series.

Bumble, Bright Stream, Snake, Tall Shadow, Milkweed. I also have feelings about Wind Runner though, and what they did with her. But GOD, explaining my complicated thoughts on Wind Runner would take a long time. She is both a favorite and also a symbol of several huge problems in WC.

[wc-confessions]

re: WC misogyny

This is solely to get my thoughts out abt this bc I’m probably not gonna be able to articulate this to the best of my ability but I feel like it’s incredibly important to say that these books are pretty damn misogynistic and so was the fanbase for the longest time.

Not saying that to be "throwing the word around without knowing what the word means", because misogyny is defined as a dislike/contempt against women. This can also absolutely be an unconscious bias (which is primarily what I see anyway!) I've seen far more people dismiss these characters while holding up male ones that do similar/worse things (i.e. Thistleclaw primarily but a lot of the MV characters to an extent)

The reason why discussion about sexism usually ends up against cats like Mapleshade, Squirrelflight, Frecklewish, and Nightcloud is primarily due to how the universe of the books is written to chastise these characters while their male counterparts go thru barely half of the shit thrown onto the girls.

Mapleshade gets her kids and herself exiled for breaking the code while Appledusk literally gets a slap on the wrist for breaking the same code she did? The Riverclan leader just tells him "well, you'll not do it again so you don't need to be punished" while Mapleshade doesn't even get to bury her kits. Even if she's the Warrior Cats evil woman that's still really fucked up!? And this goes to Frecklewish as well, who does not watch them drown oh my god. The flood that kills Maple's kits is incredibly loud--saying Freckle would have been able to do anything else OTHER than watch dismisses the fact going to the flooded stones was an idea doomed to fail (of which Mapleshade has a lot of in MV specifically.)

Frecklewish absolutely ended up in the Dark Forest over Oakstar or Ravenwing (who both condemned the kittens to their fate instead of?? idk punishing Maple and not the kits who didn't even know they were half clan?) because of the way the fandom perceived her at the time. Freckle's a lot like Squirrelflight where fandom opinion only recently shifted to people defending those characters--she's pretty awful for calling the same kits she doted on half-clan creatures! But I don't think she deserved to go to cat hell forever when the cat who actually caused those kittens to end up dead (and every other cat in MV!) ends up in Starclan without even so much of a trial.

Speaking of trials--Squirrelflight and Leafpool literally end up almost being sent to CAT HELL for following Starclan's orders. Leafpool ends up having forbidden kits but Starclan goes "it's okay!" until it isn't. Brambleclaw almost being involved in Firestar's fox trap murder never gets mentioned or brought up while both of the girls are questioned about if they even belong in Starclan because they "broke the code and lied"?? There's a pretty damn big bias towards the toms for doing bad/worse actions but Bramble never went to Starclan and had his ticket for heaven almost revoked. Oakstar didn't get put in the Dark Forest because he exiled 3 innocent kits.

I think it's important to note the fandom has a lot of say over how characters like these get interpreted (which is why Nightcloud ended up being hated a lot despite the fact Crowfeather is just. actually abusive to Breezepelt.) That's why I brought up unconscious biases, because I think generally a lot of WC content creators tend to stick to presenting the stories in a more radical/black and white way.

I think the discussion really should be that the books and the stories ARE pretty misogynistic but unconsciously so? A lot of the story beats I mentioned weren't written by just one person, and the Erins have different opinions on these cats than the fans do. That's not me stating an opinion, that's just me saying recognizing that it's very male-oriented IS an issue these books have.

Anyways this got way too wordy, Ashfur is one of my favorite villains so I don't even know why I typed all of this up /j.

[lover-of-mine]

i don't think you're giving enough credit anna though, because at least to me it does seem during the hiatus a lot of the people that were giving BT a chance reverted back to Buddie. It's likely because they saw the writing on the wall for BT and also they woke up from the buzz of the newness of Tommy and realized there's absolutely nothing there. So a lot of people woke up from the spell of bi buck and realized the truth during the hiatus. I would say a majority of the fandom woke up. Sure there's still the dumb die hards who are filled with people who proudly say they have not watched all the previous seasons of the show.

Oh, no, honey, I'm fully aware of that. I've been watching people pop back into my notifications, suddenly back to interacting with my buddie shit, I've been watching people who were multishiping just go back to being mostly buddie, I've been watching the interaction with bt shit reduce. I just like poking at the people who went to war for Tommy simply because he's a man and now have to deal with the fact that they took things too far. The way people were going on and on about how he's the most compelling love interest Buck has ever had after exactly one kiss because they were blinded by the "Buck is bi" high and now don't know how to backtrack or to accept the fact that Tommy is a device to make Buck bi who had no development beyond that. Poking fun at the people who were spending a fortune on an actor to manipulate what counts as canon just for him to completely ditch them and force them to the reality that the show gave them NOTHING. Watch them scramble to act as if constantly dismissing Buck and poorly timed sex jokes is somehow a good thing. I know the majority of people who are multishiping are reasonable. My thing is not against the reasonable people who ship them. Reasonable people are not out in the world screaming about how awful Eddie and Ryan are. Reasonable people are not in people's inboxes calling them names just because they didn't fall head over heels for Tommy. Reasonable people aren't digging through interviews as if interviews prove something and wearing comments from 3 years ago as some fucked up badge of honor. Reasonable people aren't harassing actors as if having actor interaction somehow makes them superior. I know the majority of people are reasonable and understand the show and just wanted to have fun with the two of them but understand it for what it is on the show now that the high has settled. My problem was never and will never be with anyone who got caught up in the excitement but were enjoying it on their own playground. My problem is with everyone who continues to try and force this narrative that paints Tommy as a lot more than he is simply because he's a man and somehow act as if Buck's bisexuality is only valid for them if he's dating a guy. The people who want to say Buck's past relationships didn't work because he was dating women. The people who keep talking shit about Eddie simply because Eddie "is in the way". The people who try to act as if the relationship is perfect and Eddie should die alone just because Buck is getting dicked down. You can ship whatever makes you happy. You can write whatever makes you happy. You can headcanon whatever makes you happy. My problem is the insistence in manipulating canon to make Tommy seem better than he was written because they took it too far with no information and can't back out of it now. That's the only part of the fandom I have an issue with. I still follow people who ship them. I just don't interact with their pro shit, they ignore my anti shit and we exist in harmony. I just don't like the idea that I have to ship them or else I'm being weird about queer relationships or I'm ignoring Buck's choices or I'm just plain homophobic or couldn't possibly understand the complexities of their relationship just because I'm a woman. And I have a window to the worst of that because I live rent free in their heads for some reason and if I didn't make fun of the situation, I would lose my mind. I know people have woken up. I have never had a problem with that part of the fandom. I only have an issue with the ones who are still going to war over nothing.

[shadowqueenjude]

Lucien x Nesta friendship drabble

Nesta introduces Lucien to her chosen family! @sonics-atelier I wrote it :)) Nesta surveyed the Autumn Court male coolly. She could see the similarities between his face and Eris’s. Her sister had not overstated his cruel beauty. Since she was now married to his brother, and he was in turn mated to Elain…she supposed she would have to get to know him now. That didn’t mean she was going to make it easy on him. She let pure dismissal freeze over her stare as she looked him over. Lucien Vanserra did not balk from her stare. A ghost of a smirk flitted across his face as she continued to stare him down. “Are you admiring my metal eye, or just contemplating killing me, Nesta Archeron?” Nesta couldn’t help the small smile that spread over her face. There were few who could tolerate her spiciness. Cassian had been unable to; he had loved her spiciness, sure, but only when it was directed at others. Not him. But both Lucien and Eris loved it. It must be those Autumn court genes.

“I was just wondering…” She gestured to that eye. “I forgot who made that for you. Or did you make it yourself?”

Lucien laughed. “By the Cauldron, no. I have a very dear friend in the Dawn Court who specializes in this sort of thing. She herself has a metal arm, you know.” Nesta straightened. “What is her name?”

Lucien’s eyes narrowed. “Why do you want to know?”

“Just for a friend,” Nesta said evasively. Lucien snorted. “You’re going to have to give me more than that horseshit if you want me to reveal her name.”

“What’s the big deal?” Nesta snapped.

“I don’t know you,” Lucien said simply. “I’d like to know why you want to know. You’re married to a brother I haven’t had a proper relationship with in centuries and possess incredible powers in the Dread Trove and that death magic you got going. Forgive me for being cautious.”

Nesta sighed. She wanted to argue further, but he wasn’t exactly wrong. “Fine. One of my friends, Emerie, is an Illyrian. The Illyrians have a barbaric practice of cutting their women’s wings. So… I was wondering if this friend of yours could possibly make her metal wings.”

Lucien gaped. “Are you fucking kidding me? How is such a practice still occurring after all this time? Hasn’t that stupid Inner Circle done anything about it?”

“Apparently not,” Nesta said. “But about the wings…”

“This seems within her ballpark. Why don’t I take all of you to see her? Nuan will be able to judge better than me.”

Nesta nodded. “Let me talk to Gwyn and Emerie and get back to you.”

Later that day, Gwyn and Emerie arrived in tow with Nesta. “Do you really think she’ll be able to make the wings?” Gwyn asked. Her teal eyes were as large as saucers and filled with hope. Emerie was taut as a bowstring by her side, not daring to voice the hopes in her mind. Lucien only smiled gently at Gwyn. “Nuan hasn’t failed yet.” As if in emphasis, Lucien’s metal eye whirred to focus more fully on Gwyn. Emerie jumped away, cussing, but Gwyn grinned. “That is so cool.”

Lucien smirked. “It gave me the ability to see things that nobody else can see. So, in a way, losing my eye was a blessing.”

“How did you lose it?” Nesta asked.

Lucien turned to her. “You probably know that Prythian was ruled by that tyrant Amarantha for fifty years.” Nesta nodded. “Well, I told her to go back to the shit-hole she crawled out of. So, she clawed out my eye.” Emerie’s jaw dropped, and Gwyn murmured noises in awe. Nesta raised her brows, impressed against her will. “That’s exceptionally brave of you.”

Lucien shrugged. “I don’t respond well to threats or tyrants.” Flame sizzled in his brown eye. Nesta smiled. “Neither do I.” Lucien laughed. “I figured as much when you made a death promise to the King of Hybern.”

Nesta smiled at Lucien. She didn’t know him well, but she had already decided she liked the male.

“I’m not sure I can winnow all three of you,” Lucien said. “You should probably bring my brother, Nesta.” Nesta nodded and came to get him.

Lucien was left alone in the room with Emerie and Gwyn. “Who cut off your wings?” Lucien asked. Ok, maybe not the best icebreaker, but they’d asked about his eye so it was only fair. Emerie grimaced. “My father.”

Lucien swore, low and vicious. “Asshole father. I can relate.”

Emerie scoffed. “Wonder what it’s like to have decent parents?”

“Beats me,” Lucien said. He turned to Gwyn. “Do you know?”

Gwyn shrugged. “I barely remember mine.”

“That’s a step up from being traumatized by them, I suppose,” Lucien said, and the three of them laughed.  Nesta returned to the room with her husband in tow. “Lucien, can you take Gwyn and Emerie?” “Yes,” Lucien said. He avoided speaking to his brother. “Hold on tight, my ladies,” Lucien said softly to Nesta’s friends. Gwyn was positively beaming at him, and Emerie was little better. Nesta wasn’t sure if she should be glad the two of them were so comfortable in another male’s presence, or irritated that they’d fallen for the Vanserra charm so quickly. Not like she could talk, though. Eris had a shit-eating grin on his face as Nesta faced him. “Looks like my brother might just steal your friends away from you.” “That would only make me as friendless as you, Eris.”

Eris chuckled. “Why do I need friends when I have you, Nesta Archeron?”

Nesta blushed as Eris winnowed them away.

The dawn court was exquisite. The colors in the sky were so soft and comforting, like honey. It wasn’t quite as beautiful as the Autumn Court, but it had its own charm. It was a little chilly, and Lucien was about to offer Nesta his cloak when Eris beat him to the punch. He shrugged, offering his cloak to Gwyn instead, who gladly took it. He led the way to the metal workshop he had frequented countless times to hang out with his good friend. Nuan squealed in delight when she saw him, running over to hug him. “Lulu! I missed you!!”

Nesta turned to Lucien incredulously. “Lulu?”

Lucien rolled his eyes. “She earned the right to call me that after she made my eye.”

Nesta and Eris wore identical smirks on their faces, and Lucien was about to roast the shit out of them when Nuan spoke again. “Are we here for the Illyrian?”

Emerie stiffened ever so slightly. “I stopped being Illyrian the moment my father cut my wings. I am a Valkyrie.”

“As you say,” Nuan said.

“Yes, Nuan. We were wondering if you would be able to make prosthetic wings for her.”

Nuan inspected the shredded wings. “This has been cut highly unevenly,” Nuan said. “I may have to cut a little bit more off to make it more even. Under a faerie drug, of course, so she wouldn’t feel anything.”

Nesta said, “Emerie? Are you ok with that?”

Emerie was staring at Nuan. “If I let you do that, would you be able to make wings for me? Would I be able to fly again?”

“You would need to relearn how to fly, of course, but yes, I can perfectly make usable wings for you.” Silent tears poured down Emerie’s face, and Nesta and Gwyn moved to embrace her. Lucien’s heart strained at the camaraderie, the easy acceptance and understanding. Something he had had himself, once upon a time. He shut down the thought.

“How much would it cost?”

“Seventy faerie bits, but for my favorite customer, I’ll give you a 15-bit discount,” Nuan said, swatting his arm playfully. Lucien grinned. “You honor me, my lady. And how long will it take to make?”

Nuan thought. “I was actually halfway into a wing project, which I think I can perfectly mold to fit her wingspan. Overall, probably a day?”

Lucien turned to his companions. “Are you all fine with staying?”

Nesta arched a brow at Lucien. “And do you have a place where we can stay?”

Lucien gasped in mock horror. “Of course I do! What sort of male do you take me for, Lady Death?”

“Certainly one with a death wish, foxy.”

“I’m perfectly happy to stay if everybody else is,” Eris said. “It’s not like I had anything specific going on today.”

“Same,” Emerie said. Gwyn nodded in agreement. “Then come with me, everyone.” “Are you ready?” Nuan asked Emerie. The jagged edges of her ruined wings had been evened out so that Nuan could attach her new microfiber wings. “They’re not quite bat wings,” Nuan admitted. “They’re closer to Peregryn wings, but that just means they’re softer and more flexible. And more colorful, if you’d like.”

Emerie’s eyes widened. “You mean I can make them whatever color I want?” “Of course.” Emerie grinned at her companions. “How cool would it be if I had purple wings?”

“It would match your friendship bracelet,” Nesta said.

Lucien snorted. “You guys have friendship bracelets? And you were making fun of my friend’s nickname for me.” Nesta grinned at Lucien. “Yes we have friendship bracelets, and we are not ashamed, foxy.”

Lucien shrugged. “If you say so.”

Later, Nuan carefully approached Emerie with the purple wings. “Hold still,” she commanded. The wings were very complicated, with many interlocking pieces, but finally Nuan got them on.

“Flap,” she ordered. Emerie obeyed and was stunned to feel the wings obey her. Nesta and Gwyn were squealing in the background, Eris’s hand squeezing Nesta’s tightly. Emerie sobbed over and over again, thanking Nuan for the gift, and Nuan hugged her. “It’s no better than you deserve, Emerie.”

Later, when Emerie, Gwyn, and Eris had all left, Nesta and Lucien were left alone together.

“You’re not bad, for a Fae male,” Nesta said. Lucien laughed and shook his head. “A glowing recommendation. I’m going to tape that to my wall. Nesta Archeron said, and I quote, ‘you’re not bad.’” Nesta smiled. “You must be very well-connected, if you know a tinkerer like Nuan.”

Lucien shrugged. “As the youngest of seven sons, I wasn’t particularly needed or wanted. Perhaps it was a good thing. I was able to study for longer than my father allowed my brothers before shoving them out the door to rule over some territory within our lands, and I could train for as long as I liked, since no one believed I’d be dumb enough to kill my way up the long list of heirs. And when I grew bored with studying and fighting … I learned what I could of the land from its people. Learned about the people, too.” “That sounds far more High Lord-like than people like Beron or Rhysand ever will be.”

Lucien let Nesta see all the power simmering in his veins. “That’s why my brothers tried their very best to break and kill me.” Nesta smiled. “Perhaps you could take over the Spring Court from Tamlin. Or rule over Hybern. There’s a power gap there, isn’t there?”

Lucien nodded. “I don’t know you very well, but I can’t think of anyone more suited to rule,” Nesta said. Frank. Honest. “You’re not so bad yourself, Nesta Archeron.” They may not be friends just yet, but there was a budding relationship there. It hadn’t taken long for both to grow to respect the other immensely.

[cringefaecompilation]

I know it wasn't the focus of your misogyny post so if I'm overstepping please ignore me, but it also really makes me mad when people "conveniently forget" that Ashton is nonbinary, especially when it justifies their shitty opinions (ie he's One Of The Boys™ so he's always correct and can do no wrong thanks to his male-based intellect unlike the awful evil women or he's an Evil Manipulative Man™ who's going out of his way to use his male-ness to harm these poor innocent helpless women because he said/did anything negative towards them). Like please y'all, they're not a man PLEASE they said their pronouns IN THE FIRST EPISODE PLEASE. Feel free to like/dislike Ashton all you want cause that's perfectly fair, but for the love of god don't be transphobic (especially to be sexist) when you do it??? Is that too much to ask??? Idk if I'm making sense/getting upset at nothing because I've seen a lot of people dismiss this as being silly or getting mad at nothing, but idk as a masc enby a lot of discussions around Ashton feel so gross? Idk though, once again ignore if I'm overstepping or anything

you are not being silly and you are not getting mad at nothing or overstepping. it's a huge problem.

i've seen way more of the former where he is misgendered as a cis male as a positive trait, so i'll be talking more about that. will be reposting my tags about this trend in fandom because i've already said my piece on it.

ashton is "schrodinger's man" to these people when they're bored with ignoring/erasing orym's respect and care towards the women in his life. they're nonbinary and trans when they're being directly defended against fans who only like the women, and they're a cis male who is a victim of violent misandry when complaining about previous drama or shipping laudmo/ore (willing to give the benefit of the doubt that maybe some of that blending is them including cis male actor taliesin jaffe but then again). the idea that shardgate was Feminism Going Too Far is an actual statement that i've seen going around the fandom, and it's gotten worse now with swordgate.

didja know there are people insisting laudna should have been abandoned by the hells or fearne should have gotten "harsher punishment" when her dad nearly killed her because both women did something selfish/impulsive and ashton was yelled at and punished for doing something selfish/impulsive? the They Only Were Upset With Ashton Because He Is A Man argument is so fucking dumb. bro almost nuked himself without telling anybody else and was the only one not forcing the shard down fearne's throat, of course they'd come to blows. and you wanna know why they didn't scream at fearne or laudna? BECAUSE THEY LEARNED TO NOT DO THAT. THEY HAD A THERAPY SESSION SPECIFICALLY TO AVOID DOING THAT SHIT AGAIN

and it really does make it obnoxious because i like him and orym's dynamic but it's so fucking frustrating seeing people make them into bell's hells leaders and Voices Of Reason just so they can say "orym is always correct because dead husband and imogen is a salty selfish bitch" or "ashton is always correct because tough love & street smarts and imogen is just a salty selfish bitch" that it immediately sets off red flags for me if someone says those guys are their favorite bh characters. and it sucks because i love orym and ashton too!

obligatory "both sides though" mention: yes. there are im/odna shippers that fantasize about "punishing" or murdering ashton. they do that to dorian and orym too. i am aware of them and i have seen them. i have 90% of them blocked lmao

and i have also talked about this before but the amount of people i've seen insisting callowm/oore is a bad homophobic cishet ship that erases fearne's pansexuality is BIZARRE. this argument was used to prop up fearn/iture which makes no fucking sense to me since chetney is, as far as we know, cisgender. we might not know ashton's sexuality proper but it's safe to assume they aren't heterosexual as they've flirted with people of many genders. also there was this genuine debate if as/hrym was a homophobic ship because orym only dates men... and. well. i don't think it'd be the same as shipping keyleth with orym, let's put it that way lol

[proudfreakmetarusonikku]

I’m not even a weeb (I like One anime) but like the way anime and manga are treated even now is so fucking weird and uncomfortable. Like, the medium as a whole being disregarded because of either shows specifically targeted towards a weird niche or like. shit that western media is just as guilty as. Like. Media made for teenagers sexualising teenage characters to a degree it’s uncomfortable isn’t like unique to shonen manga (which is, again, aimed for pre-teen and teenage boys primarily) like last i checked shit like euphoria absolutely exists.

hell downright sexualisation of young children happened in the western film industry not even too long ago- shirley temple starred in baby burlesque movies when she was a toddler, and literal child sexual abuse material was legal in many western countries in the fucking seventies. loli shit is not unique to japan, paedophilia of young children is something that’s been sexualised in western countries too until very recently and it’s still done today. japan has its own awful issues with csa and sexualisation of minors, but so do we. it’s not an unique issue to japan and japanese media at all.

like this isn’t a “x thing is okay actually” post but like. weird creepy shit in anime? happens in western media too. the anime we get is specifically to appeal to a niche audience, we don’t get most anime and manga translated into english and we see the type that’s popular with a specific subculture most of all, and that subculture is like, otaku. nerdy boys are misogynistic and objectify women and girls, that’s not unique to japan or japanese media and just dismissing those ideas as an “anime thing” or worse a “japanese thing” is not only devaluing the art form of an entire culture if not the entire culture itself but it’s a very good way to overlook the issues in western media when it comes to, say, constant sexualisation of minors.

sorry it bugs me so fucking much when people disparage all anime as “pedo trash” and say all japanese men are paedophiles (i have literally seen that said multiple times) when talking about the exact same issues you see in so many mediums over here. it feels like a way of deflecting from the issues western media has a lot of the time.

[gingerteaonthetardis]

Abbey, did you notice how the Rose and Ten/Rose hate is getting so strong and persistent lately? It is making me feel uncomfortable, because most of it is rooted in hypocrisy and misogyny. And the same people claiming to adore Nine/Rose while blatantly roasting Rose, and calling her misogynistic slurs… I try not to let this affect me, but I relate to Rose and seeing her constantly being called a "whore", called bland, stupid, clingy and/or unlikeable, reading she was only loved by the Doctor because she’s blonde and white, that she should have died… It’s like I am being attacked myself. It feels awful. :(

Also, most of it comes from either dudebros or Martha stans, especially the ones who ship her with Ten. Like…

hey, nonny! i'm quite sick, so forgive me if this reply isn't as clear as it could be. i am trying to extend grace across the board here, but i'm also on a lot of cold meds, lmao. another disclaimer: i'm not an authority on anything at all in the world.

the long and short of it is that you're right, this is a bunch of gross, misogynistic bullshit you're seeing right now! however, it's not quite accurate to say that this is a thing happening lately.

it wears new faces, but basically since nuwho started airing, people have found reasons to hate rose. people hated that she was uneducated, that she was poor, that she was a teenager, that she had acne, that she had the audacity to grow as a character, that she dressed in a certain way, and oh, did i mention that they really really hated that she was poor and uneducated? a lot of it was thinly-veiled classism (or not veiled at all) mixed with a spattering of misogyny, straight up, and a lot of rose fans were demeaned for their love of her.

seeing these sorts of takes has always been an unfortunate fact of existing in this fandom.

however, it is also important to point out that there was (and still is, i'm sure) a lot of racism baked into this fandom, and into rtd's era in general. i have less direct experience with this, but i am aware overall of the vitriol martha was subject to as a character, how dismissive people were of her being a viable love interest for ten, and it's almost impossible not to see how she was subject to humiliations within the canon of the show that white characters simply were not. i can guess, though i cannot cite any examples myself, that some black fans and fans of color in general have been demeaned and made to feel unwelcome here.

this is, like the above, an awful fact of the fandom and its history.

these are not necessarily equivalent. but they're both realities.

SO, cut to now. you have a fandom that has undergone several cataclysmic shifts, has imploded, has turned on itself dozens of times before. there are people who care about rose and are understandably defensive of her. there are people who care about martha and are understandably defensive of her. there are people who hate them both. there are plenty of people (like myself) who love both characters, who have nuanced reads of them. you have people who maybe ship one pairing or the other but not at cost of either rose or martha. you have multishippers. maybe some of us even ship martha and rose with each other, because we're cool and sexy and love women.

but then there are shit-stirrers. there are people sending hate to real living human beings in what they perceive as defense of their faves. there are users misrepresenting themselves as fans of anything when they are, in fact, just attention-starved, brain-poisoned lonely people.

and their shit ass takes are, i'm sorry to say, an unfortunate fact of this fandom.

they are not, however, representative of the majority of ninerose fans or tenmartha fans. the people bullying uninvolved ninerose bloggers? they are not representative of the majority of tenrose fans.

they're not representative of anything but their own misery.

the fact is, there are so many ways to be a fan of this stupid space show, so many ways of engaging in fandom, and some people have just chosen to be cruel, misogynistic, racist, classist, or some combination of the former. they've chosen to be unoriginal, hateful bullies, which is sad and sometimes very hurtful, because it's a huge disservice to both the material, the people who made it, and the people who enjoy it.

but!! there is an upside, i think, which is that we can make our spaces kinder if we curate them well. it's down to us to report harassment and to block people who make tumblr toxic. it is down to us to reblog the art and stories and meta and gifs that bring us joy, or that we feel add depth and meaning to the show. and it is essential!! that we remember we are here voluntarily. if fandom isn't fun anymore, if it makes us feel bad about ourselves, it often means it's time to step back and find our footing again. to unfollow some people, follow some new people. to try to connect with the people we do like and follow in a more personal way. to find the people in our personal lives who make us feel safe and tell them what's going on.

i'm sorry for what you're feeling, nonny. you're not the only one. <3 don't be ashamed if you feel you need support from irl friends/mutuals/etc.

i don't know how long you've been a part of the fandom, but as someone who has been around for 5 years and who has friends who have been here for twice, even three times that long, just know that there are plenty of good people around if you look for them.

[originemesis]

@sonxfadam xxx

Tch. Of course Adam boiled it down to something as pedantic as attention. So self entitled and self serving... he doesn't expect any less from the first man. He pushes his hair back to show off the sigil carved into his face. The curse that had been seared directly into the material of his soul. "Are you so fucking idiotic that you've forgotten how this works? You can't hurt me without hurting yourself. So take a shot. I fucking dare you. One for me, seven for you. Payback's a bitch but the universe itself wants me alive." His sentence neverending. "I'm not a child you can torment as you please!" Cain doesn't believe for a minute that Adam gave orders to spare him. Angels didn't typically venture into the wastes. "If you're so confident let the woman face me then. She's spent all this time hunting down vermin and Seth's worthless descendants, I'll at least give her a real fight before she dies to satiate your ego!"

"You talk like you're such hot shit. You're nothing but the seraphim's pet! Always following orders even before I was born. A mindless obedient slave whose never accomplished ANYTHING for himself! I'D CUT MY OWN FACE OFF IF IT MEANT I DIDN'T HAVE TO LOOK LIKE YOU!"

It's always been about attention for this sad fuck. Which is why he takes such glee in showering his exorcists...women no less- with the sort most would think they're owed as blood relative- somewhere beyond that self projected hatred he seems to have mistaken his father's face when it's been his own staring back this whole time. A careless flap in his direction is what he thinks about his tantrum. Molted feathers with hints of Dorito dust at the tips served towards an open mouth that thought it wise to keep yapping about a fight he'd never bring. Yawn. He twists a limp wrist into place over his mouth as he does so before a manic grin curls up from either side of the coy covering.

"Never said I did ~ but you seem awful chubbed up thinking I did. When are you going to learn that when I say you're not worth my time-" Another flap...far more aggressive and with power behind it to knock the other back an inch under the guise of helping him smooth that hair back when in reality it's just an underhanded attempt at undoing the other's work at tucking it back himself. "that I fucking MEAN IT?" A degree of venom fizzles with a condescending laugh while he dismisses the other with a light flick of the wrist.

"It's real cute how you think you're tough shit. Like you're proud that literally everyone that has ever laid eyes on you would rock your shit in like you deserve, if it weren't for your little uno reverse card. Taunting everyone behind a million walls like the pathetic little bitch you are. But guess what? I could vaporize you in an instant without touching you, bud. So go ahead ~ get near my exorcists and fucking find out."

A crooked smile and a cupped cheek despite no one telling a joke.

It's in front of him, after all.

"Blah blah blah- better a pet in heaven than a cockwarmer in hell or however that shit goes. Get back to me when you actually accomplish something more significant than being a cumstain 'cause right now it's surpassing you by leaps and bounds."

[thecoolerliauditore]

hey why does third life Cleo need to be put in the shredder ?

genuine question by the way, I don't think I have seriously thought about third life Cledubs ever

girl help I forgot I made that post so I was just staring at that first sentence for way too long like. does she.

but uh yeah disclaimer or whatever that on this blog specifically I tend to speak more hyperbolic and don't care to fact check myself because like 99% of the time I just write words and leave. I haven't necessarily like. looked back at any of my own posts a day or so later and gone "wow okay that's just incorrect" but I do acknowledge that like. I'm really letting the interpretation/headcanon lines blur over here at times and sometimes I'll just say shit. so yeah blah blah blah none of this is gospel everything with a grain of salt etc etc

anyway cleo in the life series in general drives me a bit insane because like 85% of the time they are really cool and awesome and funny and my favourite guy but then there's the 15% of time she shares onscreen in an extended conversation with scott smahor and she suddenly becomes like. genuinely the worst person alive to me I want her prosecuted jailed death penalty'd.

In third life specifically she makes an alliance with scott behind bdubs' back called the "widows alliance" which was based on a promised partnership after their respective partners (bdubs and jimmy) died before they did. Which is like. One of the things I am mad forever about people suddenly deciding everything is Silly when it comes to the guys doing horrible shit because what the fuck, man.

I guess there is an argument to be made for the level of seriousness on Cleo's side because unlike Scott we don't get any indication that she like. genuinely expects to outlive bdubs. And she could very much just be saying words for the sake of it or have yet to completely grasp the concept of "permadeath" (like many others) but I'm still mad. Very happy she ate shit and died right after Jimmy. I'm sorry women.

I would have to rewatch 3L from cleo's POV to say this with confidence but I would also like to add that from what I recall she was also somewhat? dismissive of bdubs the whole time even though a lot of the heavy lifting in their partnership was done by him. BUT in cleo's defense she was distrusting of essentially everyone in 3L and kept everybody at arm's length ++ I'm willing to attribute this more reflective of Cleo's running theme of being insecure in her own abilities than any sign that she thinks lesser of Bdubs specifically.

Post-3L Cleo is epic and awesome in Last Life as byproduct of the fairy fort being epic and awesome and even when she eventually joins GGG it's fine because LL!Scott is the only instance of Scott feeling human emotions in this series but ohhh my god DL Cleo is a whole beast of her own I could write essays upon essays on how DL Cleo is the worst guy ever this mf sets a little puppy dog on FIRE and no one ever mentions it I'm angry forever about it.

Everything limited life onwards is fine she chills out super hard about the not trusting people thing and limlife cleo specifically is really really funny even if she would still stab bigb to death with a kitchen fork if given the opportunity. Her relationship with Bdubs is pretty much un-weirded in my head I don't think they were like. Awful in 3L even I just think that Cleo has issues with relationships in general and self-sabotages alot due to her own insecurities and so she ends up doing alot of fucked up insane person things despite not really being. Bad herself if that makes sense?

Very very shy little endnote it's also like. Interesting to me that Cleo and only Cleo refers to the 3L Cledubs partnership as like. Romantic in any sense. Cleo uses terms like "husband" very generously so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here and say it means fuck all but idk idk something about the way Bdubs never reciprocates and instead assigns himself her son the next time they end up together is really funny to me.

Anyway yeah whatever. the shredder.

[eisforeidolon]

It really bothers me that people feel like JA is floundering without Jared around to clean up or cover his messes for him. As if Jensen is unable to manage his own career or do things unless Jared is there to help him thorough it like a helpless child. I love Jared and think he is doing great post SPN but to think Jensen is only able to make good decisions if he has Jared involved is ridiculous to me. Jensen is his own person why do ppl feel the need to belittle him like he is not smart.

I mean, I'm guessing by people you mean Jared stans obsessed with the whole idea of competition between the Js. Like the hellers/AAs, neither group is happy with their fave being successful alone, the Other!J has to be actively failing to prove just how inadequate they always were compared to Fave!J. In their heads, Other!J was always just a lesser sidekick who is ridiculous for thinking they could succeed post-SPN without Fave!J to make their projects a success. Everything they've both done since SPN proves this is true!!11!!!

Jensen said a few different times there were various things he'd wanted to do while filming SPN that couldn't be fit around it and still maintain a decent work/home balance, and his approach since SPN ended seems to have largely been to take anything that crosses his radar that sounds cool. Make some albums, voice act Batman, do a western, work with Kripke/be a live action super hero, play a sheriff, do a live action version of a video game character, etc.

Of course, if Jensen is Other!J to you? Well, he can't possibly be doing a bunch of different projects because he wants to. Nope, he's broke and desperate and taking literally anything he's being offered because he has no judgement and is probably secretly having to beg for offers. Putting aside TW, which is a whole tempest in a teacup on its own, but ultimately just a CW-typical YA fantasy drama on a network that no longer wants to be the CW?

When there's really nothing controversial, they go with shit like: The Boys is a terrible show and Jensen was both awful in it and had a blink and you'll miss it role anyway! Actors doing albums is always a pathetic joke, enough said. He only did animated Batman because no one would hire him for the real thing and he's only pretending to like superheroes now after never mentioning it before (lol), and superheroes are a stupid tired trend that is so over.

When there are questionable aspects to something, they're more than happy to bolster any controversy they'd dismiss and/or mock if it were Fave!J: Didn't you hear how Big Sky is misogynist for its first season centering on women being abducted and racist for not making those misogynist abductions Indigenous women because it's filmed in an area where a disproportionate number of abductions have occurred within that population, so it should be about that instead of the novel the show was already being loosely based on?! Obviously there were problems on the set of Baldwin's western, anyone should have known when they were looking for a replacement actor that late something awful was going on and never taken that job (and that's about the least shitty thing said on that one). Why didn't Jensen do in depth research into a game company before agreeing to do a trailer to make sure a random FPS game in a bog standard sci fi setting wasn't controversial? He's just so dumb/careless/desperate and actually a terrible person that he would take such awful, awful projects!

See? See? He's incompetent and literally all of his choices are bad and/or pathetic. This is, of course, COMPELTELY DIFFERENT than hellers/AAs claiming the exact same thing over everything Jared does. Ours are all totes valid complaints, theirs are just bitter stans whining because they refuse to admit they know our fave is better than theirs! Nah, everybody in this bar is ridiculous.