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aparticularbandit · 1 year ago

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What do you think would differ in the climax to CACW if everyone on Team Cap made it to Siberia with Steve and Bucky? As in, what if Sam, Clint, Scott and Wanda were in Siberia with Steve and Bucky instead of locked up in the Raft?

*It has been a while since I've seen this movie, so I did check plot summaries to make sure what I thought was correct. I don't tend to see MCU stuff more than once because, for me, at least, I just. don't like them that much. (Sometimes I go back to fact check stuff for fanfic, but like. probably not as often as I should, tbh.)

Well.

For the rest of Team Cap to be there, that assumes one of two things: 1) that they so completely defeated Team Iron Man that they all got to Siberia unimpeded or 2) Team Iron Man didn't make it to the airport in time to stop them (for any variety of reasons, which I don't want to get into because not necessary).

In either case, it assumes the rest of Team Iron Man chases after them, unless they got so beaten they couldn't follow for whatever reason, so like. let's be real, Disney doesn't want to pay that much money to do TWO mega battles, but we're having fun thinking things through here, etc. etc.

The first case means Team Cap doesn't get there quickly enough to save the Super Soldiers. The second supposes maybe they do. It also supposes that Tony doesn't end up finding out that Zemo framed Bucky (which he did post-airport fight. according to my plot summaries. because why would he have fought them in the first place if he'd known that. so).

We could go a really unfun route and assume that Tony and Team Iron Man see Steve and Bucky releasing the other Super Soldiers for rehabilitation purposes and battle over it, but I don't think Vis would go with that - and I honestly don't think Tony would go for that at this point either, which would really just lead to whether or not they listen to Steve and Bucky about Zemo - which. T'Challa is the one most likely to not listen at this point because revenge is his bag in this movie, but Vis could do some searching - or maybe did on the flight over - to figure things out. At which point, Wakanda would probably take Zemo and the Super Soldiers maybe, but you lose the whole punch Zemo wanted of Bucky killing Tony's parents and the betrayal of Steve knowing, which is really the crux of that last battle.

So I guess they wouldn't have much of a battle here, but it doesn't feel like a climax the way it should and would be not great story telling, if I'm honest. Also means this option - option two - would have no big battle between the two sides at all, unless we suppose the Super Soldiers activate immediately for whatever reason - maybe Zemo barks out the codes while the others are arguing - and then they fight them, but like. then you can get the shot from Tony in about this is why you wait and get all the info first with a quip back from Steve about how they hadn't been doing that in the first place - and it still doesn't feel like what the audience is paying for, which is the big fight between the two sides.

BUT if we're going more far-reaching consequences, they're all still together when Infinity War comes around, instead of scattered because half of them are fugitives, which would probably have helped with the whole Thanos thing. (Because Vis wouldn't have been offline! But then you don't have Vis clearly wanting to choose Wanda, the fugitive, over what he's supposed to be doing - and you also lose that he's still aiding and abetting a fugitive - like, you lose some of the weight of his decisions in their relationship because there would be no reason to be keeping their relationship secret, etc. etc. BUT also if they were all together, maybe he would have made it to Wakanda earlier and gotten the Mind Stone removed from him, so maybe he would have survived that, even though he likely wouldn't have survived the Snap. But that's me spitballing.)

Option One assumes that things progress more similarly to the movie, only Tony can't find out about Siberia from Sam because Sam's, you know, gone, so Vis would maybe have to try to track them, which means Vis at least would be with him (maybe), and like. at that point, even with the reveal about Bucky killing Tony's parents, there are too many people who could restrain him from that.

But you'd also have four people who have lived through their family being killed for no reason as a result of someone else in the room - Wanda, Zemo, T'Challa, and now Tony - so there's a possibility when it gets personal like that that Wanda, understanding where Tony is, might understand his desire for revenge and immediate want to kill Bucky, but like.

Again, you lose a lot of the weight of the moment. It's possible that Tony splits from the Avengers as a result of everything but that the rest of them continue as they had been, so you still have some semblance of a split while Tony mentally goes through some stuff, but that's different than the scattering we see at the end of canon. I still see his arc playing out roughly the same in Infinity Game, but you might get the added benefit of maybe Vis still gets to Wakanda early enough to not die - a lot of the Vis/Wanda differences you see as a long effect of Option Two would likely still play out here.

#musings #breckstonevailskier #bandit answers questions #mcu #cacw #me spitballing here #not super theorizing #just general ideas #i'm not huge into analyzing and critiquing the mcu for the most part #because i do not have that depth of knowledge of everything #and mostly i just don't care #unless i get really interested and invested in something for fanfic reasons #but the mcu didn’t get me interested in writing fanfic until dsmom #so like #i'm very focused on that and wandavision in terms of things i actually wanted for fanfic purposes #-shrugs-#...well also a bit of the first doctor strange movie for the ancient one #and their appearance in endgame #but that's. different.

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fallloverfic · 4 months ago

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Thoughts for people worried about what happens in ENNEAD Season 2, Episode 98 (the newest Korean episode that went up ~5 hours ago as of this writing) and how this will affect Horuseth.

(tldr; I think Horuseth is fine, but spoilers and discussion below the read more)

To sum up part of what happened: we see that Nephthys seemingly loved Seth to some degree before Anubis was born or perhaps even conceived. We don't fully know the details: as Isis indicates at the episode end, there's more to this that we're not seeing (and we'll probably see next episode), because Nephthys was proven honest by Maat's scales when Nephthys testified that she loved Osiris in S01E69.

The implication from S02E97 is that Hathor's mirror made Nephthys love Osiris, and Nephthys' affection/love/memories of love(?) was trapped in the mirror after she looked into it.

We don't quite have confirmation that happened, just Horus putting pieces together, and the implication we're going to either get confirmation/learn more at least in the next episode. Horus has been wrong before and hasn't had the whole picture before, lest we forget in S01E36-7 where he accused Sekhmet of imprisoning Nephthys in the mirror and making, "the fake Nephthys give birth to Anubis. [She] got rid of the real god of peace and provoked the god of war... ...in order to stain the land of Egypt with blood." (If the Nephthys in Heliopolis was never a fake after all, and mirror!Nephthys is just some of her memory/feelings, then yeah, Horus really didn't know the truth of the situation). He might still be right about some part of that, but recent episodes have seemingly indicated that while his intuition was right on points, he didn't investigate enough and came to the wrong factual conclusions about things, because he just trusted his intuition too much. He states as much in S02E97: how he relied overmuch on his intuition, which made him an idiot.

Anyway, on to the "Seth/Nephthys really did love each other and they're gonna get back together so now Horuseth can't be a thing anymore" stuff I see people doomposting about.

Folks do remember Seth loved Nephthys for a really long time, right? Like Seth says as much in S01E48: "I love Nephthys with all my heart". His loving her is not news. It's why the potential idea of her never loving him to begin with/Osiris' involvement hurt so bad.

If you think Nephthys needed to love him back to make his love for her... real(?) and thus, perhaps, his hurt valid or invalid or I don't know, that's just really strange. He loved her. He was hurt by the idea she never loved him, or never loved him fully, or otherwise lied about it, on top of lying to him about the identity of Anubis' biological father. For perhaps hundreds of years. It's still a tragedy, it's just perhaps more tragic because maybe Osiris really was a liar - like he seemed to be anyway, because he loves manipulating the truth/reality to his whims - and maybe Nephthys really was done wrong, too, by having her affections stolen.

Nephthys maybe loving him back doesn't make anything he went through that night less painful than it already was. More painful, perhaps, but it was already a tragedy. He was already on the road to becoming who he is now. It doesn't change the fact that unfortunately, Nephthys seemingly didn't love him at that point, and had lied to him about Anubis.

One of the few things we knew about Seth/Nephthys prior to S02E98 is that Seth would act angry so that Nephthys couldn't talk to him. In S01E41, Seth tells Osiris during the night of usurpation, "I always just acted angry so that I wouldn't have to hear what she had to say. She was probably afraid of things ending up this way..."

He already had regrets about their relationship. This just seemingly confirmed his fears (his fear of "being forgotten by them" from earlier in the episode/the previous episode).

People can move on from relationships. I don't personally see how, after everything both Nephthys and Seth have been through in the hundreds of years since what happened in S02E98, that Seth and Nephthys fully can come back to the relationship in the memory in S02E98. Possible, yes. Probable? Ehhh...

Seth might be glad Osiris is a confirmed liar. (If that's true: again, even Isis notes in the episode there's more to what's going on we haven't seen yet). Seth might be glad to know he really was loved. He might hate himself for doubting Nephthys. Seth might hate Osiris more for any number of things, particularly if Osiris intentionally placed the mirror in Seth's rooms to either make Seth fall in love with him or make Nephthys fall out of love with Seth (with the possible idea of making Seth turn to Osiris out of a sense of abandonment or something idk) or at least put Nephthys at risk of getting harmed.

It's been hundreds of years, though (if not more than that). Seth and Nephthys are now very different people, and Seth has a good and improving relationship with Horus. Nephthys saw Seth abuse Anubis (S01E05). Seth trapped Isis in the labyrinth, and Nephthys helped her out. Seth hurt a lot of people and cursed many people. Maybe whatever romantic love she might have had for him, even if she somehow gets it back, hasn't survived all that she's gone through and seen.

Seth's been through a lot, mentally, too. I kind of think he's moved on and after everything he's done, he might be too ashamed to go back to her. Even if it was out of their control that Nephthys stopped loving him, the other stuff still happened.

You don't need to doompost about Horuseth. Nothing has really changed. I say that in the sense that while the idea of Nephthys potentially having loved Seth until the mirror's interference might hurt him, particularly if he discovers Horus hid it from him, Seth is still who he is, he's still done all the things he's done, as king, as a father, as a husband, as a sibling, and he's still got this thing with Horus going.

Remember, in S02E70, Seth says to Horus, "I'm a god of the old generation who needs to disappear, not to mention an evil god who destroyed the country." He already has a lot of self-esteem issues and doesn't view himself highly. One reason he likes Horus is seemingly that Horus sees who he is beneath all that: believes in him as a guardian god, as a powerful god worthy of respect and affection ("My nephew, who dragged me down, is the only one who acknowledges me" - S02E74).

But also Seth did a lot of terrible things and he knows it. Horus is okay with that - to a degree at least, particularly with Seth trying to make amends - but is Nephthys? Nephthys, who gave him the curse bracelet - which nearly killed him multiple times - to make amends? She says in S01E66 she doesn't want him to be purged, and she clearly wants to support him, but that's not the same as wanting to live as his wife/partner again.

If nothing else, what keeps Horuseth together might be Seth realizing this doesn't change all that much about who they are. He could be mad at Horus. I can see him getting furious about this. He might even attack Horus, maybe even badly injure or kill him (but it's possible Horus could be revived, like how Isis revived Osiris, or something about Horus' uniqueness as a demigod/god). Maybe they'll separate and have an eventual reconciliation. But I don't personally believe they're doomed as a couple because of this. There's too many ways for them to stay together or get back together.

People can have past good, healthy relationships and not stay together. Sometimes we just grow out of relationships and into new ones. It happens. Horus makes Seth feel seen and cared for, and he listens to things that seemingly Seth's siblings - even maybe before whatever happened with Nephthys happened - didn't listen to, like Seth's opinions about eating or his opinions on his "duty" to guard Egypt or Seth's status as a god or his relationship with Isis.

Maybe Seth/Nephthys gets back together briefly but Seth goes back to Horus in the end because they don't work or he loves Horus more and his and Nephthys' time apart just doesn't let them work or Nephthys wants to focus on herself for a while. Maybe Seth attacks Horus because Horus hid info about Nephthys' affections. Maybe Horuseth reconciles because Seth realizes Horus genuinely loves him and hid whatever he learned because he genuinely loves Seth or was otherwise afraid of talking or how to explain it, and Seth realizes it's a messy thing to explain. Maybe Horus didn't say anything because, like he was seemingly aware the first time he went into the mirror, mirror!Nephthys/her affection for Seth, can't come out of the mirror anyway, so what's going to change? This is encouraged by the fact that Isis apparently learned all of this and did nothing about it. Even the god of magic - and miracles - hasn't freed mirror!Nephthys, when she possibly had opportunity (or maybe there's another reason we haven't learned yet for why she didn't; point is we don't know much). Seth might look at that and go, "I really hate this, but I guess it's just how things are now, and I'm going to learn to live with it."

Maybe Seth realizes that, despite everything, he genuinely cares for Horus and this isn't going to defeat them. That Horus had his back time and again. Sometimes things being out of our control don't mean we can just go back to how we were. Life happens. He's still got Nephthys' curse bracelet :/

If you, like I, believe Horuseth is real at this point, have faith that it'll continue to be real despite this. Horus is the main love interest, it's a boys love series, their relationship is pretty strong already, and more to the point, Mojito is a good writer. I think they'll be fine.

#ennead #ennead spoilers #horuseth #horus x seth #fallfthoughts #ennead by mojito #this is an expanded thread from what I wrote on twitter cause character limits #I feel like if Nephthys were an endgame love interest she'd appear more prominently in artwork #and she doesn't #if nothing else I just don't think Mojito would pull a fastball like that #also a lot of people have seemingly not read enough mlm stories with male leads or LIs with past relationships with women #or maybe they only read ones where the relationship with the woman was negative idk

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