#and silmaril rights

[inthehouseoffinwe]

Thingol, Luthien, and Dior’s claim to the silmaril bugs the living daylights outta me and I’m gonna break down why. This goes a bit beyond ownership laws.

Starting with basics. What are the silmarils? Gems created by Fëanor that hold the light of the Two Trees. Who in Beleriand saw the light of the trees and no doubt misses it like a limb? Are here in part to avenge their destruction? The Noldor.

The Sindar never went to Valinor. They might find the gems beautiful but that’s it. There’s no cultural or emotional connection to them beyond ‘pretty stone, look how awesome our princess was.’ There’s no appreciation for what they hold. No understanding that this stone is one of the *last* things that holds the ancient light of the Trees.

The Noldor meanwhile not only saw the Light, they had entire festivals surrounding it. Grew their entire culture, their lives, under and around it. Now the trees are destroyed, their king killed defending these jewels. And this last beacon of hope, a piece of the home they can never return to, a piece of light that will never come back, is being kept by people who can’t even begin to understand the significance of what they keep.

Now imagine being the sons of the one who made this jewel from a culture of people who value craft above all else.

Not only is it light, it’s the result of years of toil and experimentation of your father, the one who managed to do what no one had ever even thought of. Fëanor’s sons would have been the first to see these jewels, probably saw him make prototypes, work equations whilst they worked on their own crafts. Provided what relief they could to his ever working mind and inadvertently gave him ideas that helped solve problems he encountered along the way. Suddenly it’s not only a key part of their culture, it’s something core to their family.

Then Fëanor is killed and in many ways it’s the most important thing they have left of their father. Now it’s a source of memory too, for someone doomed to the Halls for eternity. Who they’ll likely never see again unless they’re killed.

Now from what I’ve heard, Tolkien says the Fëanorions lost their right to the Silmarils when they killed for them. Which makes no sense considering the Silmarils were *created* by Fëanor. Yes the light was created by the Valar, but what, you’re gonna say ‘I created electricity so that lightbulb you made is actually mine.’ That’s not how it works. Fëanor made the casing for the stones and figured out how to hold the light, without aid from the Valar. It doesn’t matter what actions they take, the right to the Silmarils remain theirs and theirs alone. The jewels hold no power of their own, they’re literally objects. Healing objects at most. Morals do not dictate their ownership, hallowed or not.

Tolkien going on to say the right of Doriath’s Silmaril actually goes to Beren and Luthien for taking it from Morgoth gives me frankly coloniser vibes.

‘Oh this thing I stole was originally stolen from you? Too bad. I took it so it’s mine now. Don’t care how important it is to you, your entire culture, and your people.’

Get where I’m coming from?

All in all the whole situation gives me Bad Vibes and I really don’t like the attitude the Sindar have to the Silmaril. In terms of Elwing, I can partly forgive her purely based on trauma response. Fine. Doesn’t make it right, but I understand. But that never would’ve been a problem if her father, grandmother, or great grandfather had the sense to acknowledge the silmaril was never theirs to keep. Don’t like the Fëanorions, (too bad) at least give it back to the Noldor.

[erendur]

When did the Fëanorians lose their right to the Silmarils ?

I had a brief conversation somewhere (can't find the post !) about this the other day, and so I was wondering today about when, exactly, did the Fëanorians (I'm using this term broadly, as you'll see) lost their right to the Silmarils.

I had thoughts about this, so explanations about the options I came up with below, and I'am asking the question from the point of view of the Silmarils (they're sentient, magical objects) :

I think that there are two things to take into consideration here :

a. What Eönwë tells M&M when they ask for him to return the Silmarils, which is the first time we hear the idea that they have lost their right to it ;

b. The fact that the Silmarils are magical, sentient objects, who might have their own ideas about who to reject /accept.

Eönwë tells the sons of Fëanor "that the right to the work of their father, which the sons of Fëanor formerly possessed, had now perished, because of their many and merciless deeds, being blinded by their oath, and most of all because of their slaying of Dior and the assault upon the Havens. (...) to Valinor must Maedhros and Maglor return, and there abide the judgement of the Valar, by whose decree alone would Eönwë yield the jewels from his charge."

He is right of course, the Silmarils reject them, but a few things to note here : he says they formerly had a right to them ; he says somehow the slaying of Dior is on equal par with all the rest of the killings they'd done ; and he concludes that it's basically the Velar's decision (he's pretty much just giving his opinion there).

So, I'm asking the question not from the point of view of the Valar, or property rights, but from the point of view of the Silmarils themselves.

Here is an explanation for the choices I came up with :

The Silmarils would reject Fëanor and his sons after he refused to give them up to heal the trees : we don't see Fëanor ever interacting with the Silmarils again after their theft, so maybe they would have rejected him on that basis. @eri-pl pointed out in a post that repeated mentions of Silmarils being put away in the dark when they were living creatures that loved light made her think about Bible verses using the same imagery of a 'light' being covered, hidden, which I think would explain why Fëanor's attitude to the Silmarils is referred to as "greedy", and would lead to the Silmarils eventually rejecting him.

2. They lose their right after swearing the oath :Eönwë mentions the oath, so maybe the "terrible oath" would have made Fëanor and his sons unworthy to handle the holy objects that are the Silmarils (which would make the rest of the story even sadder, given that they spend the book trying to fufill an oath to retrieve magical objects that would reject them on the basis of the oath.)

3. They lose their right after Alqualondë and first kinslaying, which does not get a separate mention from Eönwë, so seems somehow less important than the subsequent massacres at Doriath and Sirion. I'm of the "murder is murder" school of thought, so would personally be inclined to chose this one.

4. They lose their right after Doriath. Doriath is the first time that the sons of Fëanor kill specifically for the Silmarils, so that would be a good point. Make of Eönwë only mentioning Dior as a victim there what you will (he's the most important person in Doriath and therefore the only one the records care about / he's Lúthien's son and so somehow the only person the Valar care about/there actually weren't that many victims in Doriath, most of the fighting was between Dior, his guards whom nobody cares about, and the sons of Fëanor and the rest just fled away).

5. They lose their right after Sirion. Sirion is presented in the text as "the worst" of the kinslayings (highest number of victims ?) so that was the real turning point. For some reason.

6. After M&M attack the host of the Valar. Goes against what Eönwë says, but again the Silmarils have a mind of their own. I find this option interesting because here M&M are not just rejecting the Valar's authority anymore, they are actively fighting them, which would be an even greater fall from grace.

7. They lost their right to the Silmaril B&L stole. The Simaril just really likes B&L and decides to change owner.

8. They lost their right to all Silmarils after B&L stole one : the other Silmarils are jealous and all want to belong to B&L.

9. They lost their right to the Silmaril they were trying to get when attacking Doriath, but not the other two ones. Pretty self-explanatory.

10. They lost their right to the Silmaril they were trying to get after Sirion, but not the other two. Same.

And that's it :)

[crownedwithstars]

the reasons I think Fëanorians should not get the Silmarils back

it's a better and more compelling story this way. their fall from grace and the way they corrupt and destroy themselves because of a hopeless quest is peak tragedy, which would be ruined by their success.

it's a justified consequence of the Kinslayings: the right of ownership is not and cannot ever be more important than somebody else's right to live.

it's also a justified consequence of them stealing and destroying someone else's priceless semi-sacred property: Teleri will never get their ships back because Fëanor burned them out of spite, so it's only fair and square that the Silmarils are never returned to him or his heirs. 

if Stuff is so important to you that it causes you to ruin the lives of all your children, losing that Stuff forever is probably just karmic justice. (see also: "if more of us valued food and cheer above hoarded gold...")

And no, nobody else should have the Silmarils either. It's clear that having a Silmaril messes with your brain. At the end of the Silm, they should become public property. I would go even further than this and say that the actual resolution of the Silm, where nobody can have them and the single surviving jewel is carried as a star that everyone can indiscriminately see by a guy who never expressed a desire for it, is probably the only correct one. 

[raointean]

[armenelols]

Actually. Star crown Elrond is important to me because it keeps the theme of his family carrying stars with them, their connection to the stars and skies far beyond what even all other elves have. Thingol, who fell in love with a Maia from beyond Arda and Aman and from before time itself existed, and who, of all the elves, was alone named Elwë, after stars; Lúthien and the nightingales, birds, free with their wings, soaring the skies; Dior who carried the silmaril with the light of the Trees inside it; and Elwing who inherited it, and turned into a bird, flying as Lúthien's nightingales once did; Eärendil, a literal star; and Elros, who followed his father's star to Númenor, a star-shaped island where eagles dwelt. Star crown Elrond is important to me okay

[sesamenom]

arwen's goth phase, aka the most stressful decade of sauron's life

with the full mask & veil without the white makeup

[queerofthedagger]

One thing I think about a lot is that when Nargothrond falls, it is heavily implied that as good as everyone perished or, if not, got captured. Like, unlike with the Fall of Doriath, there is no mention at all of any refugees removing to the Mouth of Sirion - and yet, I assume that is very likely where Celebrimbor, at least, went? I definitely think he would have fought, but clearly he survived and neither Doriath nor Gondolin really were an option for him, and I doubt even more that he would have gone back to his family.

And there are a lot of implications to all that, but maybe the one that keeps me up most is that this means he would have likely been there when the refugees of Doriath arrived, when they told of what his family did. That his father is dead. What would he have been thinking? What would the survivors of Doriath been thinking? Like, I know there were technically several different camps to some extent, but I doubt they would have been wholly separate, especially upon arrival. What kind of horror to find someone who looks just like one of those guys who just slaughtered your friends and family. What kind of horror to look like someone who just committed such horrors.

He also would have been there when the third kinslaying occurred, or at least very close to it. What an experience, to end up on the other side of it. To see exactly what might have become of him had he not foresworn his father years ago, and also to see yet again what became of his family. Like yeah, everything before/during the Nargothrond Disaster would have already been formative for him and his future choices, but I do feel even being in the vicinity of all of that would have been such a dire reinforcement of all those convictions and reasons that made him disavow them in the first place. And especially in terms of the third kinslaying, it's also why I personally really doubt that there is a chance at any kind of reconciliation with any of the brothers, whether it's his father or I don't know, Maedhros or Maglor. Like, I just don't think there is any coming back fromt hat, really, if there ever was.

[eloquentsisyphianturmoil]

[mindflayers-and-silmarils]

the OG!RE4 Your right hand comes off? meme except it's one of the Peredhel twins asking Maedhros

[dfwbwfbbwfbwf]

Honestly, it feels like the Valar only got involved in Beleriand for the Silmarils.

Warning to Eri, this isn't very pro-Valar.

For starters, it really seems like the only reason they didn't go after Morgoth earlier was to spite Fëanáro for refusing to give the Silmarils to them. This is something they'd been upset about long before the Trees were destroyed. Heaven forbid he keep his stuff with him. Even before the Trees died, they wanted the Silmarils. I think the only reason they didn't covet them is because Tolkien didn't want to make them evil, but they basically coveted them.

Ulmo killed every Noldo who tried to return to Valinor for help. Even the ones who had nothing to do with Alqualondë. Even the ones who hadn't even chosen to leave to begin with because they weren't born. There's only one exception: Voronwë.

Voronwë, who brought Tuor to Gondolin. Without Voronwë, Tuor and Idril would never have met. Without Voronwë, Eärendil would've never been born. Without Voronwë, Eärendil would've never brought the Silmaril to Valinor.

Am I implying Ulmo only spares Voronwë so that the Valar would get the Silmaril? Maybe.

Ulmo also was the one who inspired Turgon and Finrod to make Gondolin and Nargothrond. Gondolin kept Idril safe long enough to meet Tuor. Nargothrond kept Finrod safe long enough to die for Beren to get the Silmaril. Literally everything Ulmo did had the consequence of getting the Silmaril to Aman. I don't know if that was his intention, but it doesn't really matter because it's what happened.

When Eärendil brought the Silmaril, it was a sign to the Valar that Morgoth was weak enough to take the rest. He also brought news that the Fëanárions were too weak to stop Morgoth. Too weak to stop the Host of Valinor from taking the Silmarils as a war prize.

Is this a particularly charitable interpretation of the Valar? No, but I'm not in a particularly charitable mood as of now. Sorry, Eri, if you made it this far.

I just feels like the whole First Age was a long con done by the Valar to get their main sources of competition to kill each other so they could swoop in and take what they wanted.

[inthehouseoffinwe]

Y’know when you’re tired and come across the wrong post at the wrong time and just. Pure rage. For no reason whatsoever.

I’m feeling rather bitter at Elwing rn (it was a very well written ficlet and I admire the writer, I’m just tired and unwell 😂) so you get a little fic of me getting that out. Content warning done.

Here we go!

Elrond and Elros can’t stand most depictions of their mother.

White feathered wings, plain white gown billowing in the sea breeze around her slight figure, two dark shapes reaching taloned hands for the brilliant gem around her neck. Desperate expression on a too round face with wide eyes looking towards her sons. It makes them sick.

Because Elwing wasn’t soft and innocent. Elwing wasn’t like that at all.

Sharp, angular features. Grey slivers for eyes more often clouded than not. White? Yes she wore white. But it was the white of a desert sun, the white of cold starlight, merciless and unfeeling as elves were dragged to the darkness.

And she’d loved her sons, yes, but it was the love of an ideal. Elwing was young and far from ready for the burdens of motherhood alongside ruling a city in her husband’s ever growing absences. And the gem-

Well. The less said about the silmaril, the better.

The Sindar more than others remain desperate for a symbol of innocence, a sign of their claim to the stolen jewel over the sons of it’s creator. So they present their winged princess bathed in holy light whilst the sons of Fëanor cower from it’s brilliant glow.

But Elrond and Elros remember how the stone sang when Maedhros and Maglor arrived, just as they remember their mother’s fury at its song.

You see, Elwing loved her sons. But she didn’t jump to save them.

Elrond and Elros saw the beginnings of regret, but they also remember her steadfast determination to keep what was never hers, cold starlight and unyielding sun meshing to cruel pride as she fell. It wasn’t holy light but white hot fire that clashed with the silmaril to send her screaming as the stone rejected her grasp, burning brighter than ever as she flew to her husband.

Elrond’s arrival to Valinor and the white scars radiating from Elwing’s hand to her chest confirm what he knew all along.

It wasn’t innocence that crowned her the day Sirion fell.

Because years before Maedhros and Maglor had fallen victim to the Silmaril’s hallowing, Elwing the White had paid the price for her false claim. And no matter how they tried to hide it, the consequences of that pride marked her to this day.

[persephonaae]

Broke: we should adapt the Silmarillion into a show or movie

Woke: we should adapt the Silmarillion into a Soulsborne style game

[isilwhore]

I got fixated on Fëanorian lamps today…so I decided Fëanor first made one because little Maglor was afraid of the dark

This is for you, Káno

[mxliv-oftheendless]

So the Arkenstone is a precious jewel, found in the depths of the earth, that shines with an unearthly light and is so unbelievably beautiful, and whoever holds claim over it slowly becomes obsessed with keeping it for themselves…

Is there a chance the Arkenstone is Maedhros’s Silmaril jewel??

[sesamenom]

Day 6 Objects & Symbols for @tolkiengenweek: Silmarils.

[eloquentsisyphianturmoil]

This is exactly what happened.