#and one of the reasons why i personally dislike show!barristan

[aboveallarescuer]

it's not even true that barristan does not want to tell the truth to daenerys (as this fandom so believes) but to tell someone (a child) how awful her father was it has to be handled with tact and that's what barristan does: he is tactful i think people just want barristan bluntly spew all out in front of daenerys and to disregard her feelings they just want daenerys to feel miserable and daenerys already expects to hear A LOT of bad stuff about her father no person asks if there is some good to be told about their father if they did not expect the worst to hear (tags by @mikastormborn)

When people argue that Barristan should have bluntly told Daenerys that she is a child of rape, are they genuinely motivated by Barristan making amends to Dany, or are they motivated by wanting Dany to spiral into darkness and hate herself and her family, to pave way for their theory that she should die to let the Targaryen name die?

I ask this because the biggest proponents of this line of argument, or other criticisms of Barristan (who yes, deserves his critiques, no doubt about it), don't apply this logic consistently.

Who will tell the Starklings that their grandfather, Hoster Tully, forced their aunt Lysa to abort a child and marry a pedophile who raped her, at the age of 16? Who will tell the Starklings that their father, Ned Stark, was best friends with a serial rapist and abuser, Robert Baratheon? That Ned Stark's mentor, Jon Arryn, was the pedophile their aunt Lysa married? Particularly because "Barristan served Robert, how dare he try to serve Dany" is one of the criticisms being levied at him––so should not the Starklings know that their father went south and signed their destruction warrant by serving such a man?

You see, if it's about "Dany has to confront the legacy of her horrible family," and "Dany should know that she was only conceived through rape and only exists in this world because her father raped her mother," then shouldn't the Starklings confront the direct role their family has played in aiding and abetting abusive, sexually violent, and predatory men?

Perhaps the logic is that unlike Dany, the Starklings have enough distance from the crimes of their father and grandfather. Or their father and grandfather shouldn't be held accountable to begin with. Theon comes to mind here, as someone who lived alongside the Starks during his formative years. Will those Starklings confront the reality that Ned Stark held him as a hostage, and would have killed him if Balon Greyjoy made the wrong move? Is that something the fandom consistently wants to see, as much as it bays to see Dany react to the knowledge that she was conceived through rape? Will this change how Bran feels about Theon's conquest of Winterfell and betrayal of the Starks?

Should Asha and Theon learn that Victarion murdered his wife to please Euron? That Euron likely raped Aeron? Is this something the fandom yearns to witness, for the Greyjoys to "confront their legacy?"

The only person who has to "confront her legacy" is Dany––the orphan with no family by her side––and this is fashioned through criticisms of Barristan with a fake concern for Dany. Absolutely, he should tell her the truth. Or someone should. But how should that truth be told? And what effect do you want it to have on Dany? Do you want her to know the truth so that she can be a better ruler, or do you want her to know the truth so that she can hate herself, and willingly be a corpse that the rest of the characters step on to see the dawn of a new day?

The proponents of this argument also believe that Rhaegar raped and abducted Lyanna. Who will bluntly tell Jon that he is a product of rape, if you believe that Rhaegar raped Lyanna? Should Jon confront his Targaryen legacy, or is he distant enough from it to not have to die to lay the Targaryen name to rest? Does anyone want to see his emotional state, or do they just skip to "Jon will reject his father and embrace the Starks?"

I'd much rather see Tyrion tell Dany the truth. Tyrion, who was born to a terrible father, like Dany. Tyrion, left to suffer under his elder sister's hands, like Dany was left to suffer under her elder brother's hands. Tyrion, who knows exactly what it's like to strive to embody your identity, all while knowing your family did not want you. Tyrion, whose mother died in childbirth, like Dany's. Tyrion, who is the embodiment of his father and his house, despite being hated by his father and family. Tyrion, who clashes with his family's values and goals. Tyrion, who remains proud of his Lannister identity in spite of it all. The very specific subjectivity of knowing that your father is a rapist, a horrible person, a tyrant, and knowing that you carry his name, is very specifically shared between Dany and Tyrion.

But I want Tyrion to be the one to tell Dany the truth about Aerys because I want to see mistrust evolve into shared understanding and empathy between them. I want it to be a moment of catharsis for them both, of relating to someone who is probably the only one in the world who knows the exact thing you're going through. The rest of you, however, want it to be Barristan, or Jaime, because if we're being honest, you want Dany to hate herself and spiral even more afterward, paving the way for "Dany dies to make the Targaryen name die" endgame.

[evax3]

what’s your opinion on parallels ppl like to draw?

like

sansa & lysa vs Sansa & Cat

Jon & rhaehar vs jon & lyanna

Aegon & Rhaehar vs Aegon & Elia

Dany & Aegon I vs Dany & Aerys

Arya & Lyanna vs Arya & Brandon

Sansa & Lyanna vs Sansa & Cersei

Arya & Cat vs Arya & Ned

Thanks so much for stopping by anon and for leaving this really cool question! I’m such a sucker for parallels and symbolism, so I do have a few opinions about these characters (Sansa, Dany and Jon under the cut – no opinions about Aegon) and had a lot of fun writing them down!! ❤️

Arya

What I really liked, and what stood out for me the most (in the show), is that after Arya accepted that she wasn't No One but indeed Arya Stark of Winterfell and came back to Westeros, she very much took on Ned's appearance. She gets dressed and wears her hair the same way Ned does, and shows confidentially that she takes right after her father, where her being the only one in the pack (beside Jon) who inherited the Stark-look (long face, brown hair, and grey eyes) wasn’t something she was actually proud of as a child. 

There are many more parallels between these two (the Baratheon friendship, the dislike of the southern culture and the people at court, their sense of loyalty, …) but what I like most is her understanding of the death sentence and how Arya has internalized Ned's teachings. The one who speaks the sentence must also carry out the killing. It is the opposite of what she is taught by the faceless men and in the end it is also one of the reasons why she realizes that she can never be truly No One. Which, I guess, is why she showed her face to every one of her kills that was on her list of names (at least in the show, but I'm sure it will be similar in the books).

I never thought much about the parallels to Lyanna, except that she also had the typical look from the north and was also much wilder than is expected for a noble-born woman. Probably it is one of the reasons why Ned encourages Arya’s nature instead of scolding her for it. But I think it says more about the relationship Ned had with either his sister and his daughter.

As for Cate I think the most striking parallel is probably their cunning. Which Sansa also inherited from her mother, and Ned unfortunately never managed to master, because he is too driven by honor. As women, all three are underestimated in this world, and yet (and perhaps because of this) manage to outsmart the men around them. For example, when Arya names Jaqen H'ghar as her third name in order to escape from Harrenhal, that was pretty damn clever and something that her mother would have done as well. 

Also, and sadly, their desire for vengeance is something that shapes and drives both characters (referring to Lady Stoneheart in the books) too. Because of that, I'm really curious if they will ever meet (if the next book ever gets published) and if there will be any revenge for Arya against the Frey's at all. 

Sansa

Just as Arya takes on Ned's appearance, Sansa does it with Catelyn's in the later seasons. I think this is particularly interesting because in the beginning, during her time in KL, she copied Cersei's hair and clothes, and later she copied Margaery’s. It shows her role models at each stage and it's particularly striking that at the end she takes on her mother's look, just as Cersei adapts that of her father Tywin. 

Even if the comparison between Arya and Lyanna is drawn much more often, I always found that Sansa and her aunt have much more parallels. The beauty of the two is something that is often highlighted in the story, emphasized, for example, as Rhaegar names Lyanna the queen of love and beauty at the tourney at Harrenhal, similar to Loras giving Sansa a rose at the Hand's tourney. I suspect that for both women this circumstance has led to their intelligence and other abilities being greatly underestimated, if not overlooked, in their very male-dominated world. 

Fortunately, Sansa has the chance to evolve into self-empowerment, which I think is the main focus of her journey, whereas Lyanna died way too early to achieve that. She was forced to marry a man she didn't want (Robert), (as was Sansa btw), so Lyanna saw the only way to prevent that in running away with Rhaegar. And I can imagine that early Sansa, the little romantic that she is, would have made a similar decision. 

I don't like that many say Sansa acts like Cersei in the later seasons because she admires her. I don't think that's the case at all. Cersei only acts out of self-interest (and sometimes, especially in the books, quite stupidly). Sansa, on the other hand, does what is right for her people. She combines her mother's strength with her father's understanding of the Northerners. 

She is cunning as Cate, which is not a bad quality per se, and develops an understanding when someone tries to manipulate her. At the same time, she always has the well-being of her people in focus, which Cersei definitely doesn’t. Which is why I think Sansa is a good queen and is just right to take Robb's place (the obvious choice if she were a man) and Cersei is absolutely terrible at her job.

Jon

I have to say, for Jon it’s almost the hardest to give an accurate answer, because the character (especially in the later seasons) differs a lot between book and show.  Regarding the show, I would say that Jon doesn’t have much in common with his birth parents, because he really is the reincarnation of Ned, the honorable fool, as he calls himself. Always trying to do the right thing, even if it goes against his heart’s desire.  

Rhaegar, on the other hand, does exactly the opposite in the plot for which we know him best. And even if his relationship with Lyanna is often categorized as incredibly romantic, it is one thing above all: selfish. Show!Jon couldn't be more the opposite.

Jon is a good leader, as Rhaegar was, or at least is praised to be. Both have melancholic tendencies, and at least book!Jon, has a tendency to sarcasm (at least in his thoughts) where it is said about Rhaegar , he often had an ironic undertone in his voice (according to Jaime)

Rhaegar is musical, interested in the fine arts, Jon doesn't really show interest in that. What they do have in common is a belief in something that is more than what the eye perceives. For Rhaegar this means believing in prophecies and such things, and Jon is not atheistic either, even if he lives out his beliefs in the Old Gods less than some other characters. Both of them are highly valued by their followers and I think also for both of them this is a quality that shapes their character a lot. 

Still, I have to say that for me the background of Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship, the consequences especially for Elia and her children, but also for the whole country will always be in the spotlight.  

I've already read several metas that say book!Jon takes more after his birth father because his motives and actions are also less moral (e.g. only giving food to the people of the Free Folk who are willing to fight for the Night's Watch – a huge difference to the show version). Still, I would say Jon is more pragmatic than selfish, another area where Rhaegar would have needed to catch up if he’d been given the chance.

Daenerys

Whereas it was more difficult for me to think about Rhaegar's positive qualities in relation to Jon, I have to say that it was easier for me in relation to Dany. This might be because Daenerys is so frequently compared to Rhaegar as a compliment. Not only in her looks, but also with her intelligence, her determination and in the love that her people have for her. Ser Barristan calls him determined, deliberate, dutiful, and single-minded, all positive qualities that also apply to Dany.

As for Aerys, it's also hard to draw parallels. As I said in another post, I think the Targaryen madness is not really madness (being crazy) but more an obsession, whether it's about religion, dragons, or with Dany, her desire to liberate her people. What we know about Aerys, however, shows that he was indeed sick, paranoid, after his captivity. That is something different and not something I see or suspect with Dany. 

What I have found, though, are explanations about the young Aerys, which at some points apply to her:

In his youth, while not being the most intelligent, nor the most diligent of princes, he was described as having an undeniable charm. He was generous, handsome and resolute, although somewhat quick to anger. 

In the same paragraph, however, it is said that he was vain, proud, and fickle, qualities that made him easy prey for sycophants and sycophants. While Dany is proud, she quickly develops over the course of the story into a person who sees through the manipulation attempts of those around her and is clever enough to avoid them. 

There might be a possibility that through a traumatic experience (like for Viserys selling his mother's crown) her obsession finally drives her to take more drastic measures to achieve her goal. However, I think it's unlikely that Dany actually drifts into absolute madness like her father and burns down an entire city without thinking. She is much too reflective for that. Should she actually go completely ‘Fire and Blood’, then I think it will be a very conscious decision, rather than an impulsive one.

[aboveallarescuer]

Daenerys Targaryen in A Storm of Swords vs Game of Thrones - Episodes 3.7 & 3.8: The Bear and the Maiden Fair & Second Sons

In this series of posts, I intend to analyze precisely how the show writers downplayed or erased several key aspects of Daenerys Targaryen’s characterization, even when they had the books to help them write her as the compelling, intelligent, compassionate, frugal, open-minded and self-critical character that GRRM created.

I want to make it clear that these posts are not primarily meant to offer a better alternative to what the show writers gave us. I understand that they had many constraints (e.g. other storylines to handle, a limited amount of time to write the scripts, budget, actors who may have asked for a certain number of lines, etc) working against them. However, considering how disrespectful the show’s ending was to Daenerys Targaryen and how the book material that they left out makes it even more ludicrous to think that she will also become a villain in A Song of Ice and Fire, I believe that these reviews are more than warranted. They are meant to dissect everything about Dany’s characterization that was lost in translation, with a lot of book evidence to corroborate my statements.

Since these reviews will dissect scene by scene, I recommend taking a look at this post because I will use its sequence to order Dany’s scenes.

This post is relevant in case you want to know which chapters were adapted in which GoT episodes (however, I didn’t make the list myself, all the information comes from the GoT Wiki, so I can’t guarantee that it’s 100% reliable).

In general, I will call the Dany from the books “Dany” and the Dany from the TV series “show!Dany”.

Episode 3.7, "The Bear and the Maiden Fair", was written by George R. R. Martin himself and is one of the two scripts that he wrote and that show!Dany appears in (the other is episode 1.8, "The Pointy End"). Because the quality of show!Dany's screentime is obviously improved thanks to the influence of her creator, I decided to talk about episodes 3.7 and 3.8 (which was written by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss) in a single post in order to highlight the former's strengths and the latter's weaknesses.

Episode 3.7: The Bear and the Maiden Fair

Scene 6

JORAH: Your Grace. Yunkai. The Yellow City.

BARRISTAN: The Yunkish train bed slaves, not soldiers. We can defeat them.

JORAH: On the field, with ease. But they won't meet us on the field. They have provisions, patience, and strong walls. If they're wise, they'll hide behind those walls and chip away at us, man by man.

DAENERYS: I don't want half my army killed before I've crossed the Narrow Sea.

Dany's initial conflict in the books is different from that of her show counterpart:

“Are those slave soldiers they lead?”

“In large part. But not the equal of Unsullied. Yunkai is known for training bed slaves, not warriors.”

“What say you? Can we defeat this army?”

“Easily,” Ser Jorah said. “But not bloodlessly.��� Blood aplenty had soaked into the bricks of Astapor the day that city fell, though little of it belonged to her or hers.

“We might win a battle here, but at such cost we cannot take the city.”

“That is ever a risk, Khaleesi. Astapor was complacent and vulnerable. Yunkai is forewarned.”

Dany considered. The slaver host seemed small compared to her own numbers, but the sellswords were ahorse. She’d ridden too long with Dothraki not to have a healthy respect for what mounted warriors could do to foot. The Unsullied could withstand their charge, but my freedmen will be slaughtered. (ASOS Daenerys IV)

As the quote shows, in the books, Dany's victory against Yunkai is quite likely, but it comes at the expense of the Astapori freedmen's lives, which Dany isn't willing to risk. Unfortunately, as I mentioned before in previous reviews, the Astapori who decided to follow Dany in the books are not introduced in the show, so this conflict can't exist for show!Dany.

Instead, the show focuses on the possibility of the Yunkish refusing to surrender by staying inside the city and letting show!Dany's army starve. I'm not a fan of this change because it's uninspired; it's too much like Dany's initial problem in Meereen:

“...Perhaps we can starve the city out.”

Ser Jorah looked unhappy. “We’ll starve long before they do, Your Grace. There’s no
food here, nor fodder for our mules and horses. I do not like this river water either. Meereen shits into the Skahazadhan but draws its drinking water from deep wells. Already we’ve had reports of sickness in the camps, fever and brownleg and three cases of the bloody flux. There will be more if we remain. The slaves are weak from the march.”

“Freedmen,” Dany corrected. “They are slaves no longer.”

“Slave or free, they are hungry and they’ll soon be sick. The city is better provisioned than we are, and can be resupplied by water. Your three ships are not enough to deny them access to both the river and the sea.” (ASOS Daenerys V)

It seems that this change was made not just because the Astapori freedmen were not included in show!Dany's story, but also because the events of ASOS Daenerys IV are being stretched out for four episodes (from this one until the season finale). This would explain why the show writers ultimately decided to introduce the sellswords in the next episode instead of in this one, which is another departure from the books, where they're introduced right away:

“Those are sellswords on the flanks. Lances and mounted bowmen, with swords and axes for the close work. The Second Sons on the left wing, the Stormcrows to the right. About five hundred men apiece. See the banners?” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

In the books, Yunkai is already prepared to wage war against Dany if it's necessary. The possibility of a siege is never brought up.

In the show, we'll have two scenes with Dany and her counsellors assessing the enemy forces (one in this episode and another in episode 3.8, which I'll discuss below), unlike the books (which only has one). Each is quite similar to one another, with the second more closely (though not entirely, since, again, the Astapori freedmen are nowhere to be seen) resembling the conflict in the books for actually introducing the sellswords.

Also, it's disappointing that we don't get to see onscreen quite a few moments from the books that showcase Dany's intelligence. The first is that she eagerly wants to apply her lessons with Barristan about how to assess her enemy forces, so she goes with Jorah to see them and then makes a reasonable guess about their strength:

Her Dothraki scouts had told her how it was, but Dany wanted to see for herself. Ser Jorah Mormont rode with her through a birchwood forest and up a slanting sandstone ridge. “Near enough,” he warned her at the crest.

Dany reined in her mare and looked across the fields, to where the Yunkish host lay athwart her path. Whitebeard had been teaching her how best to count the numbers of a foe. “Five thousand,” she said after a moment.

“I’d say so.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

What's also missing from the show is Dany applying the knowledge she acquired from the Dothraki to contextualize the danger that her Astapori freedmen are going to face against the sellswords:

Dany considered. The slaver host seemed small compared to her own numbers, but the sellswords were ahorse. She’d ridden too long with Dothraki not to have a healthy respect for what mounted warriors could do to foot. The Unsullied could withstand their charge, but my freedmen will be slaughtered. (ASOS Daenerys IV)

Finally, unlike in the books, we don't have a scene on HBO displaying that show!Dany learned important lessons with both the Qartheen and the Astapori. Such lessons inform why she's certain that both Yunkai and the sellswords will at least come and listen to her offer:

“But if they do not come—”

“They’ll come. They will be curious to see the dragons and hear what I might have to say, and the clever ones will see it for a chance to gauge my strength.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

That being said, there is good in this scene too: 

JORAH: We don't need Yunkai, khaleesi. Taking this city will not bring you any closer to Westeros or the Iron Throne.

DAENERYS: How many slaves are there in Yunkai?

JORAH: 200,000, if not more.

DAENERYS: Then we have 200,000 reasons to take the city.

ASOS Daenerys IV doesn't have a scene where Dany explicitly states that she is in Yunkai because she wants to free the slaves (though her thoughts and actions speak for themselves, making it obvious that she is). The show, on the other hand, makes that fact loud and clear for anyone to grasp it. Dany's selflessness is probably the most important aspect of her characterization, so it's no wonder that this scene (which draws attention to it) was written by GRRM himself. (Benioff, in contrast, focuses on Dany's supposed "Littlefinger style ambition" or on her "divine mission", but never on her moral principles)

*

Before I talk about this show scene in relation to the books, I want to reiterate that yes, it is racist at its core; it employs North African extras as slaves who will be freed by a character played by a British actress, after all. There's no excuse for this and I don't blame any person of color who dislikes show!Dany for this.

That being said, as @yendany​ already laid out in this post, the slaves of the books are of multiple ethnicities; they range from "pale Qartheen" to "ebon-faced Summer Islanders". This stems from the fact that GRRM never meant for the slavery that Dany is battling against to be race-based; he was, instead, inspired by the slavery in the ancient world. Parallels between Dany's storyline and US slavery, on the other hand, are non-racial in nature. Furthermore, it's crucial to notice that Dany is the only major character of ASOIAF interacting with people of color and caring about their struggles in the first place.

All of this is to say that yes, there is racism in this scene (and the books aren't exempt from it), but this is the fault of the show's production. Neither show!Dany nor Dany are white saviors because of it and their storylines still have thematic significance despite GRRM's and D&D's shortcomings. 

In the books, this is not the mode of transportation that the Yunkish envoy chooses to get to Dany:

The envoys from Yunkai arrived as the sun was going down; fifty men on magnificent black horses and one on a great white camel. Their helms were twice as tall as their heads, so as not to crush the bizarre twists and towers and shapes of their oiled hair beneath. They dyed their linen skirts and tunics a deep yellow, and sewed copper disks to their cloaks.

The man on the white camel named himself Grazdan mo Eraz. (ASOS Daenerys IV)

That being said, I would argue that this was a good change because it illustrates the oppression of the Yunkish slaves (who, let's remember, come from lots of different societies and cultures in the books) and reinforces the necessity of show!Dany's revolution.

Meereenese seldom rode within their city walls. They preferred palanquins, litters, and sedan chairs, borne upon the shoulders of their slaves. "Horses befoul the streets," one man of Zakh had told her, "slaves do not." Dany had freed the slaves, yet palanquins, litters, and sedan chairs still choked the streets as before, and none of them floated magically through the air. (ADWD Daenerys VII)

~

The Brazen Beasts did as they were bid. Dany watched them at their work. “Those bearers were slaves before I came. I made them free. Yet that palanquin is no lighter.”

“True,” said Hizdahr, “but those men are paid to bear its weight now. Before you came, that man who fell would have an overseer standing over him, stripping the skin off his back with a whip. Instead he is being given aid.” (ADWD Daenerys IX)

Considering that the palanquins (along with the whip and the tokar) were used to call attention to the mistreatment and the oppression of the unprivileged in the books, it's not surprising that they were also added in the show in an episode written by GRRM to convey the same point.

*

MISSANDEI: Now comes the noble Razdal mo Eraz of that ancient and honorable house, master of men and speaker to savages, to offer terms of peace. Noble lord, you are in the presence of Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons.

Again, thanks to GRRM's influence, Dany's and the envoy's titles are both announced as a formality, not as comic relief (at best) or as a sign of Dany's arrogance (at worst) like, for example, in her first scene with Jon Snow in season seven.

Also, this is not a key detail, but the Yunkish envoy's name was changed from Grazdan mo Eraz in the books to Razdal mo Eraz in the show. I don't see any reason why GRRM would change his name, which makes me question to which extent the show writers altered certain parts of GRRM's script to their convenience (and they certainly did, as I will show below).

*

RAZDAL: Ancient and glorious is Yunkai. Our empire was old before dragons stirred in old Valyria. Many an army has broken against our walls. You shall find no easy conquest here, khaleesi.

In the books, the Yunkish envoy speaks Valyrian like the Astapori did:

“Missandei, what language will these Yunkai’i speak, Valyrian?”

“Yes, Your Grace,” the child said. “A different dialect than Astapor’s, yet close enough to understand. The slavers name themselves the Wise Masters.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

And yet, we are seeing the actors talk to each other in English, which is used in the show to indicate that the characters are speaking the Common Tongue. On its own, this is a superfluous change. Still, it's irritating that the show writers allow show!Dany and the Yunkish envoy talk to each other in English here and then will later prevent her from speaking to the freedmen in the same language (which she does in the books, because they also speak Valyrian) at court in episode 4.6. The implications that she's too removed from reality (and her subjects, as seasons five and six will imply), that she is actually quite similar to a master and that she should abide to the Meereenese traditions are all distasteful and completely out of line with what happens in the books. Unfortunately, it could be argued that the seeds of these negative implications are in this episode (though they only become negative in retrospect because of later events and not because of GRRM's writing).

*

Unsurprisingly, the Yunkish envoy's words are almost copied word by word from the books:

RAZDAL: Ancient and glorious is Yunkai. Our empire was old before dragons stirred in old Valyria. Many an army has broken against our walls. You shall find no easy conquest here, khaleesi.

~

“Ancient and glorious is Yunkai, the queen of cities,” he said when Dany welcomed him to her tent. “Our walls are strong, our nobles proud and fierce, our common folk without fear. Ours is the blood of ancient Ghis, whose empire was old when Valyria was yet a squalling child. You were wise to sit and speak, Khaleesi. You shall find no easy conquest here.”

Small changes are made in show!Dany's response to his statement, however:

DAENERYS: Good. My Unsullied need practice. I was told to blood them early.

~

“Good. My Unsullied will relish a bit of a fight.” She looked to Grey Worm, who nodded. (ASOS Daenerys IV)

In the books, this is a subtle but affectionate moment between Dany and Grey Worm. Dany is alluding to Grey Worm having previously told her that the Unsullied "thirst[ed] for blood" and that he hoped to show her that "the Unsullied learn the way of the three spears" (in stark contrast to the Yunkish bed slaves).

In the show, while the context surrounding show!Dany's mention of the Unsullied was changed from the books, I would argue that the scene is no less effective for it. It displays show!Dany's intelligence by having her recall Kraznys's advice and be intent on following it.

*

In both versions, the Yunkish envoy attempts to bribe Dany into leaving the city:

“And yet, why should we speak thus harshly to one another? It is true that you committed savageries in Astapor, but we Yunkai’i are a most forgiving people. Your quarrel is not with us, Your Grace. Why squander your strength against our mighty walls when you will need every man to regain your father’s throne in far Westeros? Yunkai wishes you only well in that endeavor. And to prove the truth of that, I have brought you a gift.” He clapped his hands, and two of his escort came forward bearing a heavy cedar chest bound in bronze and gold. They set it at her feet. “Fifty thousand golden marks,” Grazdan said smoothly. “Yours, as a gesture of friendship from the Wise Masters of Yunkai. Gold given freely is better than plunder bought with blood, surely? So I say to you, Daenerys Targaryen, take this chest, and go.”

Dany pushed open the lid of the chest with a small slippered foot. It was full of gold coins, just as the envoy said. She grabbed a handful and let them run through her fingers. They shone brightly as they tumbled and fell; new minted, most of them, stamped with a stepped pyramid on one face and the harpy of Ghis on the other. (ASOS Daenerys IV)

~

RAZDAL: If blood is your desire, blood shall flow. But why? 'Tis true you have committed savageries in Astapor. But the Yunkai are a forgiving and generous people. The wise masters of Yunkai have sent a gift for the silver queen. There is far more than this awaiting you on the deck of your ship.

DAENERYS: My ship?

RAZDAL: Yes, khaleesi. As I said, we are a generous people. You shall have as many ships as you require.

DAENERYS: And what do you ask in return?

RAZDAL: All we ask is that you make use of these ships. Sail them back to Westeros where you belong and leave us to conduct our affairs in peace.

In the show, the envoy offers her even more rewards than he had in the books; while the Dany of the books was offered "fifty thousand golden marks", show!Dany was offered an unspecified amount of gold that fills the deck of a ship and "as many ships as [she] require[s]".

In both versions, Dany declines the offer. Show!Dany is explicitly shown refusing it because of her moral duty towards the slaves (who, let's remember, come from lots of different societies and cultures in the books), which is a callback to episode 3.3:

Even if we don't have show!Dany attempting to spare the Astapori freedmen's lives like she does in the books, GRRM still hammers home that her ultimate goal is selfless - to free the Yunkish slaves and end slavery in the region.

*

Dany's "gift" to the Yunkish envoy was altered from book to show, but her sole request was largely kept the same:  

DAENERYS: I have a gift for you as well. Your life.

RAZDAL: My life?

DAENERYS: And the lives of your wise masters. But I also want something in return. You will release every slave in Yunkai. Every man, woman, and child shall be given as much food, clothing, and property as they can carry as payment for their years of servitude. Reject this gift, and I shall show you no mercy.

~

“I have a gift for you as well.” She slammed the chest shut. “Three days. On the morning of the third day, send out your slaves. All of them. Every man, woman, and child shall be given a weapon, and as much food, clothing, coin, and goods as he or she can carry. These they shall be allowed to choose freely from among their masters’ possessions, as payment for their years of servitude. When all the slaves have departed, you will open your gates and allow my Unsullied to enter and search your city, to make certain none remain in bondage. If you do this, Yunkai will not be burned or plundered, and none of your people shall be molested. The Wise Masters will have the peace they desire, and will have proved themselves wise indeed. What say you?” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

I would say that these scenes have the same spirit, though there are some differences between them as well.

In the books, Dany tells the envoy that she'll give him three days to free the slaves only to deceive the Yunkish and attack them when they least expect it. This, as I've argued before, is no proof of Dany's "tyranny", but rather her prioritization of the freedmen's lives (who would have been slaughtered against mounted warriors if not in a surprise attack) over the nobility's, which is an attitude that she should have maintained throughout the rest of ASOS and the entirety of ADWD.

On HBO, show!Dany will not attack Yunkai in the same night, so having her give the master three days to decide what to do wouldn't have the same significance. One could argue that show!Dany is being more explicitly threatening than Dany ("Reject this gift, and I shall show you no mercy") during her interaction with the envoy, but this line is certainly not out of character for Dany, who tells Barristan that "Yunkai will have war" in the same chapter where her talk with Grazdan takes place.

There are key things in common between the books' depiction of the scene versus the show's as well: Dany promises that "Yunkai will not be burned or plundered, and none of your people shall be molested"; show!Dany's gift is the envoy's life "and the lives of [his] wise masters". Dany asks for as much "food, clothing, coin and goods" as the former slaves can carry "for their years of servitude" after three days; show!Dany asks for "every man, woman and child" to "be given as much food, clothing and property as they can carry for their years of servitude". These show lines exhibit that, ultimately, show!Dany is also primarily focused on freeing the slaves and on attempting to be as conciliatory as possible.

*

One small detail is altered from books to show regarding the envoy's answer to Dany's offer:

RAZDAL: You are mad. We are not Astapor or Qarth.

~

“I say, you are mad.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

In both versions, the envoy calls Dany mad, but Qarth is never brought up as an example of Dany's "treacherous" nature, only Astapor:

“You took Astapor by treachery, but Yunkai shall not fall so easily.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

~

“And yet, why should we speak thus harshly to one another? It is true that you committed savageries in Astapor, but we Yunkai’i are a most forgiving people.[”] (ASOS Daenerys IV)

This addition was most likely made because, on HBO, show!Dany locked show!Xaro and show!Doreah inside the former's vault to die. I suppose that it makes sense for the show writers to pay attention to their own continuity, though that makes me question why Kraznys and the other Astapori slavers weren't also aware that show!Dany was not (in their perspective) trustworthy by the time she arrived to negotiate with them. It wasn't convenient to pay attention to the continuity in the beginning of season three, I guess. I also doubt that GRRM wrote this bit of his own volition (unless he was told to do so).

*

Now we get to what some people tend to see as the most controversial parts of Dany's exchange with the envoy. On HBO, it's show!Dany's decision to take the envoy's gold; in the books, it's Dany's burning of the envoy's tokar:

RAZDAL: You are mad. We are not Astapor or Qarth. We are Yunkai and we have powerful friends. Friends who would take great pleasure in destroying you. Those who survive, we shall enslave once more. Perhaps we'll make a slave of you as well.

REZNAK: You swore me safe conduct.

DAENERYS: I did, but my dragons made no promises. And you threatened their mother.

~

“I say, you are mad.”

“Am I?” Dany shrugged, and said, “Dracarys.”

The dragons answered. Rhaegal hissed and smoked, Viserion snapped, and Drogon spat swirling red-black flame. It touched the drape of Grazdan’s tokar, and the silk caught in half a heartbeat. Golden marks spilled across the carpets as the envoy stumbled over the chest, shouting curses and beating at his arm until Whitebeard flung a flagon of water over him to douse the flames. “You swore I should have safe conduct!” the Yunkish envoy wailed.

“Do all the Yunkai’i whine so over a singed tokar? I shall buy you a new one ... if you deliver up your slaves within three days. Elsewise, Drogon shall give you a warmer kiss.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

People who think that the Dany of the books is more morally grey than show!Dany tend to use the event above as an example that supposedly "proves" their point, since Dany's burning of the envoy's tokar in the books doesn't happen in the show. Not only this conveniently ignores that the show cut so many of Dany's moments of compassion and self-deprecation and that it gave show!Dany many scenes that complicate her character's morality more than any from the books (e.g. her decision to feed one master to her two dragons arbitrarily), it also overlooks the fact that Dany uses her dragons to intimidate the envoy (rather than to punish him in any way). By making sure that he takes her seriously, Dany's threat of a "warmer kiss" becomes much more alarming, which is only necessary in a world where men think that it's normal to underestimate her and dismiss her as a "whore". More importantly, it must be remembered that Dany's threat to the envoy (who was never actually hurt) was made because she wants to free the slaves of Yunkai. All in all, considering a) the level of damage she caused (none), b) her selfless intentions and c) that we're talking about a book series/TV show full of rapists and murderers from a pseudomedieval world, this is not a morally grey action.

It must be noted, however, that GRRM himself observed that show!Dany's burning of the envoy's tokar was a moment cut from his original script and that he wishes that it had been included. I suppose I can understand why the author is frustrated by this particular change, since this has ramifications later when Yunkai remembers what happened to Grazdan and then refuses to accept any peace agreement until Dany marries another slaver.

Still, I think that the exclusion of this moment is compensated by this show change:

RAZDAL: Take the gold.

DAENERYS: My gold. You gave it to me, remember? And I shall put it to good use. You'd be wise to do the same with my gift to you. Now get out.

~

“You’ve soiled yourself. Take your gold and go, and see that the Wise Masters hear my message.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

In the books, Dany doesn't take the envoy's gold. In the show, however, she does.

Like with Dany's burning of the envoy's tokar, show!Dany's decision to take his gold is not really a morally grey action because it's motivated by (and will finance) her anti-slavery campaign.

Like with Dany's burning of the envoy's tokar, this decision leads many fans to judge show!Dany much more harshly than they should, as this stupid gifset shows. @yendany​ has already exhaustively laid out why neither Dany nor show!Dany (whose actions, albeit often undermined in comparison to her book counterpart, are still in keeping with Dany's motivations) are imperialists, so check out her metas about this issue.

By comparing these two scenes, my intent is to argue that the omission of Dany's burning of the envoy's tokar isn't that detrimental in the grand scheme of things. Its purpose was not to make Dany more morally grey as some people think, it was meant to complicate the negotiations of a peace agreement between Dany and Yunkai (which never occurs in the show). If they wanted something to complicate the peace agreement (which, again, was never added into season five), they could have brought up show!Dany taking Razdal's gold (which, while also not a morally grey action, would certainly piss the Yunkish slavers off), but they would have to have cared about adapting Dany's ADWD storyline well to think about that.

*

BARRISTAN: The Yunkish are a proud people. They will not bend.

DAENERYS: And what happens to things that don't bend?

This response from show!Dany portrays her as more unyielding than the books do. This is not necessarily a bad thing (and it's not as if Dany didn't struggle with accepting the slavers' actions, opinions and customs in the books as well), but it goes against how the books have Dany still developing her political values along the way based on her experiences. Also, while this original line is fine on its own, in light of the show's ending, it may have helped to portray show!Dany as inflexible enough to become a Well-Intentioned Extremist in the eyes of the show writers and some fans (we know, however, that this ending is OOC for show!Dany as well and that it carries many, many horrible implications).

*

DAENERYS: He said he had powerful friends. Who was he talking about?

JORAH: I don't know.

DAENERYS: Find out.

Again, is this from GRRM or the show writers? In the books, as I already said, Dany knows who the Yunkish's "powerful friends" are right away:

“Those are sellswords on the flanks. Lances and mounted bowmen, with swords and axes for the close work. The Second Sons on the left wing, the Stormcrows to the right. About five hundred men apiece. See the banners?” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

This was changed because, again, they want to make the events of ASOS Daenerys IV last for multiple episodes. Still, I wonder if GRRM cared enough to respect the show's continuity or if the show writers made changes to what he wrote.

Episode 3.8: Second Sons

We get back to D&D's writing of show!Dany with "Second Sons".

Scene 7

Remember when I said that we would get two scenes of Dany and her advisors assessing the enemy forces in the show (this only happens once in the books)? Well, we have reached the second one.

BARRISTAN:  Men who fight for gold have neither honour nor loyalty. They cannot be trusted.

JORAH: They can be trusted to kill you if they’re well paid. The Yunkish are paying them well.

Show!Barristan's and show!Jorah's counsels above are show only.

It's not out of character for Barristan to distrust sellswords and men who don't behave in a way that is socially perceived as honorable in general. The problem is that the show writers have him express his feelings only for show!Jorah to question and refute them without show!Barristan being allowed to give any response, which undermines the latter (like they did in episodes 3.3 and 3.5 as well) in the eyes of the audience in favor of show!Jorah's perspective.

In the books, both Jorah and Barristan are shown distrusting sellswords, especially Mero:

But when Mero was gone, Arstan Whitebeard said, “That one has an evil reputation, even in Westeros. Do not be misled by his manner, Your Grace. He will drink three toasts to your health tonight, and rape you on the morrow.”

“The old man’s right for once,” Ser Jorah said. “The Second Sons are an old company, and not without valor, but under Mero they’ve turned near as bad as the Brave Companions. The man is as dangerous to his employers as to his foes. That’s why you find him out here. None of the Free Cities will hire him any longer.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

What's irritating about this change in show!Jorah's character is that Jorah's attempts to isolate Dany from other men are a key aspect of their relationship in the books. Having show!Jorah trust the sellswords if they're well-paid overlooks this side of their dynamic and portrays him as reasonable rather than often motivated by jealousy like he is in the books. It also helps to popularize stupid takes like this one.

I would also like to call attention to Dany's response to their advice in the books:

“It is not his reputation that I want, it’s his five hundred horse.[”] (ASOS Daenerys IV)

As I said before, I find it interesting that Dany isn't really concerned about the sellswords' lack of morals. Moments like this and the one later in ADWD Daenerys VIII when she finds that being “dishonorable and greedy” can be advantageous if she wants the sellswords to turn to her side show that Dany is actually quite down-to-earth and flexible and doesn’t suffer from moral righteousness like the show writers seem to think.

Show!Dany expresses a similar view by thinking that the Second Sons might turn to her side because she has a larger strength (more on that below). That being said, she is mostly shown listening and making questions:

DAENERYS: You know these men?

~

DAENERYS: Is he more titan or bastard?

~

DAENERYS: How many?

~

DAENERYS: Enough to make a difference?

The books don't show Dany being as dependent on her advisors' feedback as show!Dany is. I don't want to be overly judgmental of show!Dany, but this is something that irks me because Bryan Cogman has said in an interview that he thinks that Dany relies too much on Jorah to obtain information about Essosi culture. It's not untrue that he gives her knowledge that she doesn't have, but this statement ignores the fact that Dany applies that knowledge and has her own (because she's lived in Essos for longer than Jorah) and that she has her own opinions and makes many decisions on her own as well. The show often overlooks these nuances because the writers are intent on making her more ignorant and ineffective than in the books to "compensate" for her strengths and achievements (more on this later).

*

JORAH: Only by the broken swords on their banners. They’re called the Second Sons. A company led by a Braavosi named Mero, the Titan’s Bastard.

DAENERYS: Is he more titan or bastard?

JORAH: He’s a dangerous man, Khaleesi. They all are.

A rare occasion where show!Dany is allowed to have a sense of humor (which her book counterpart displays much more often). What's a shame is that the show writers only know how to write offensive jokes for her (see also this one) and for most of the other characters in general.

I also dislike the implication that show!Dany's joke indicates that she is underestimating the threat that the Second Sons pose. It's certainly not out of character for Jorah to be condescending towards Dany, but I don't think that's how the show writers intended his response to come across; as I've talked about exhaustively by now, the show writers have a much more positive view of Jorah than GRRM does.

*

Another change is that the show writers increased the size of the Second Sons. In the books, the Stormcrows (which was condensed into the Second Sons in the show) have five hundred men and the Second Sons five hundred as well, making them one thousand rather than two thousand men:

“Those are sellswords on the flanks. Lances and mounted bowmen, with swords and axes for the close work. The Second Sons on the left wing, the Stormcrows to the right. About five hundred men apiece.[”]

~

DAENERYS: How many?

BARRISTAN: Two thousand, Your Grace. Armoured and mounted.

As I will show later, this goes in line with the show writers' tendency to undermine Dany against the sellswords in comparison to the books. It also goes in line with how they previously undermined the value of show!Dany's possessions compared to what she has in the books to undermine to extent of her sacrifice.

*

DAENERYS: How many?

BARRISTAN: Two thousand, Your Grace. Armoured and mounted.

DAENERYS: Enough to make a difference? (after Barristan nods "yes") It’s hard to collect wages from a corpse. I’m sure the sellswords prefer to fight for the winning side.

JORAH: I imagine you’re right.

DAENERYS: I’d like to talk to the Titan’s Bastard about winning.

Like in the books, show!Dany is also aware that her military strength vastly surpasses that of the Yunkish's and that this might persuade the sellswords to turn to her side.

My gripe with the show (which I'll talk about below) is that it'll challenge the fact that show!Dany would indeed triumph in a battle against Yunkai more than the books ever did. There, the conflict for Dany was not about whether she would win or not (she certainly would), but rather that winning would have meant allowing more freedmen to die as collateral damage than she's willing to do. Once again, the show writers are going to miss the point, which makes show!Dany seem less effective than her book counterpart.

*

DAENERYS: I’d like to talk to the Titan’s Bastard about winning.

BARRISTAN: He may not agree to meet.

DAENERYS: He will. A man who fights for gold can’t afford to lose to a girl.

In the books, Jorah is the one who questions if the sellswords will meet with Dany:

“The slavers like to talk,” she said. “Send word that I will hear them this evening in my tent. And invite the captains of the sellsword companies to call on me as well. But not together. The Stormcrows at midday, the Second Sons two hours later.”

“As you wish,” Ser Jorah said. “But if they do not come—” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

Which is in line with his tendency to question her authority (though, to be fair, this is one of the least offensive examples). Meanwhile, Barristan is the one who respects Dany as his liege.

Dany's answer to her advisor is also different:

“They’ll come. They will be curious to see the dragons and hear what I might have to say, and the clever ones will see it for a chance to gauge my strength.” She wheeled her silver mare about. “I’ll await them in my pavilion.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

As I had already mentioned in my review of episode 3.7, this moment indicates that Dany learned important lessons with both the Qartheen and the Astapori, which is why she is sure that they will agree to meet with her.

On HBO, show!Dany brings up the fact that sellswords "can't afford to lose to a girl", which is true, but why would that be a reason for them to agree to meet with her? Isn't it more likely that, because she is a girl and, therefore, not perceived as a threat, they don't even bother going to meet with her because they (think they) know that she will lose? I don't really understand her point, which seems more like a typical moment of faux empowerment from this show.

*

BARRISTAN: Your Grace, allow me to present the captains of the Second Sons, Mero of Braavos, Prendahl na Ghezn, and, um…

DAARIO: Daario Naharis.

Much has been said about how none of the two show versions of Daario resemble his book counterpart in physical appearance (check out his description in the books here), so I'm only making a brief acknowledgement of that (admittedly radical) change in this review and leaving it at that. It's not really relevant to what I want to focus on (i.e., the changes in Dany's characterization and storyline from book to show) and I dislike how some people keep overfocusing on his looks to point out that Dany supposedly has a ~bad taste~ in men. It's much more important to acknowledge that Daario (both versions) gives Dany the chance to have sexual autonomy for the first time in her life.

*

MERO: You are the Mother of Dragons? I swear I fucked you once in a pleasure house in Lys. JORAH: Mind your tongue.

In the books, it's not Jorah who answers this asshole, it's Dany herself:

“I believe I fucked your twin sister in a pleasure house back home. Or was it you?”

“I think not. I would remember a man of such magnificence, I have no doubt.”
 (ASOS Daenerys IV)

His next insult is also adapted word by word from the books, which hints at the show writers' priorities:

MERO: You’ll all be slaves after the battle, unless I save you. Take your clothes off and come and sit on Mero’s lap, and I may give you my Second Sons.

DAENERYS: Give me your Second Sons and I may not have you gelded.

~

“What say you take those clothes off and come sit on my lap? If you please me, I might bring the Second Sons over to your side.”

“If you bring the Second Sons over to my side, I might not have you gelded.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

Heck, the amount of profanity in the books is already problematic and the show makes it worse by adding even more:

MERO: Why? I didn’t mind hers. She licked my ass like she was born to do it.

~

MERO: Show me your cunt. I want to see if it’s worth fighting for.

~

MERO: After the battle, maybe we’ll all share you. I’ll come looking for you when this is over.

And that's not even considering that the sellswords get one scene for themselves in this episode (more on that later), ugh.

To top this all off, many of Dany's excellent comebacks to the sellswords' remarks in the books are erased in the show:

“Woman?” She chuckled. “Is that meant to insult me? I would return the slap, if I took you for a man.” Dany met his stare. “I am Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, the Unburnt, Mother of Dragons, khaleesi to Drogo’s riders, and queen of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros.”

~

“No need. After my eunuchs cut it off, I can examine it at my leisure.”

~

“So it is from you they get their courage?” Dany turned to Ser Jorah. “When the battle is joined, kill this one first.”

The last remark is included, but is also decontextualized in a way that prevents it from displaying Dany's competence like it does in the books. I'll get to it later.

*

DAENERYS: Give me your Second Sons and I may not have you gelded. Ser Barristan, how many men fight for the Second Sons?

BARRISTAN: Under two thousand, Your Grace.

DAENERYS: We have more, don’t we?

BARRISTAN: Ten thousand, Unsullied.

DAENERYS: I’m only a young girl, new to the ways of war, but perhaps a seasoned captain like yourself can explain to me how you propose to defeat us.

DAARIO: I hope the old man is better with a sword than he is with a lie. You have eight thousand Unsullied.

Like in the books, Dany inflates her number of Unsullied:

“Five hundred of your Stormcrows against ten thousand of my Unsullied,” said Dany. “I am only a young girl and do not understand the ways of war, yet these odds seem poor to me.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

~

“It is true that I am only a young girl, and do not know the ways of war. Explain to me how you propose to defeat ten thousand Unsullied with your five hundred. Innocent as I am, these odds seem poor to me.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

However, the show writers have show!Daario find out that show!Dany was lying about her military strength when this never happens in the books. Indeed, they seem hellbent on undermining show!Dany, since they even decreased her actual number of soldiers from eight thousand and six hundred in the books to eight thousand in the show.

This change heavily implies to me that the show writers believe that show!Dany is indeed "only a young girl, new to the ways of war" and that they want the audience to perceive her as one. (see also David Benioff saying that show!Dany goes "back to being a really frightened little girl" when her dragons are stolen in season two or Bryan Cogman's comment on her supposed ignorance of Essosi culture)

And this is just so wrong because this is the opposite of what GRRM is doing in the books.

As I already analyzed in this meta, in the books, Dany is the one who correctly guesses the enemy's military strength (yes, she is the one who gets to do that in the books, not Daario). Dany is the one who is shown applying her knowledge of the Dothraki forces to understand (on her own) that her freedmen are vulnerable against the sellswords. Dany is the one who applies her historical knowledge of the Second Sons to intimidate Mero. Dany is the one who gets to outline the tactical plan to take Yunkai (which the show writers will frustratingly have show!Daario concoct in the next episode). Dany is the one who stayed in the room and listened as her military commanders worked out the details to implement her plan. The latter case is particularly noticeable because GRRM cared to show Dany exposing her plan onpage, but he didn't care to write about how her advisors fleshed it out: that's because he prioritizes the development of his female lead character over his supporting male characters'. Despite certain flaws in his writing, GRRM goes out of his way to portray Dany as more than just a "young girl, new to the ways of war". It's a shame that the show writers can't do the same with her show counterpart.

The thing with Dany (both versions) is that she is a power fantasy in so many ways; she is the female protagonist of ASOIAF, she is genuinely kind and selfless, she is mother to three dragons and to thousands of people, she is a dragonrider and will become an action heroine, she is the only monarch with a claim to the Iron Throne who gets her own POV chapters, she is from a family renowned for their godlike beauty, she is a messianic hero, she fulfills so many prophecies, she has so many titles (and all of them were hard-won), she is the Fire of the song of ice and fire...

To many fans (including the show writers), she just can't be that big of a deal! There must be something wrong with her! If she is holding so much power, there must also be the risk of her becoming a tyrant. If she is a successful conqueror, she must also be ignorant (sometimes she is, sometimes she isn't, like a normal person) and arrogant (she isn't) and not think far enough ahead (she does). If she is a revolutionary who gets to enact her idealism (and deal with the negative results of her mistakes) onpage, she can't be the embodiment of hope for the future at the same time.

What I'm saying is that the show writers' tendency to undermine Dany's positive qualities and overstate her flaws (or create new ones or judge her by unfair double standards) mirror the ASOIAF fandom's and that the underlying assumption behind these attempts (i.e. that Dany can't be as great as she seems to be) is misogynistic at its core.

*

PRENDAHL: Our contract is our bond. If we break our bond, no one will hire the Second Sons again.

This is not a very important change in the grand scheme of things, but, in the books, Mero is the one who says something along those lines:

“You are worth fighting for, it is true,” the Braavosi said, “and I would gladly let you kiss my sword, if I were free. But I have taken Yunkai’s coin and pledged my holy word.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

Prendahl, on the other hand, brings up that the Stormcrows (which is his company in the books) has the support of Yunkish forces and predictably dismisses Dany as a "whore" in order to explain why he won't join her side:

“The Stormcrows do not stand alone [...] We fight beside the stalwart men of Yunkai.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

~

“What you are,” said Prendahl na Ghezn, “is a horselord’s whore. When we break you, I will breed you to my stallion.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

His anger at Dany stems from both his misogyny and the fact that Dany's sack of Astapor led to the deaths of some of his relatives:

“That Prendahl is Ghiscari by blood. Likely he had kin in Astapor.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

While these changes are not the most significant ones, it's noteworthy that Prendahl only appears in one scene seen through Dany's perspective in the books and receives more detailed motivations than in the show, where he gets a scene of his own (more on that later).

*

DAARIO: You have no ships. You have no siege weapons. You have no cavalry.

DAENERYS: A fortnight ago, I had no army. A year ago, I had no dragons.  

While I like that show!Dany is at least allowed to offer a response to show!Daario's remark, this wasn't supposed to have happened in the first place. Neither Daario nor any of the men that Dany interacts with are shown questioning her in this way in the books. It's another infuriating attempt to undermine show!Dany. Moreover, she is the one who is shown to be conscious of her own limitations in the books, not Daario:

Dany considered. The slaver host seemed small compared to her own numbers, but the sellswords were ahorse. She’d ridden too long with Dothraki not to have a healthy respect for what mounted warriors could do to foot. (ASOS Daenerys IV)

Why was this changed? I'm not sure. Because the show writers are deliberately trying to make show!Dany look worse than her book counterpart? Because they are unaware of the sexism underlying their writing choices? Because this makes show!Daario seem "more interesting" in his introduction (to the detriment of show!Dany's characterization)? All of these reasons or something else entirely?

Also, while I enjoy show!Dany's assertion on its own, I also know that it's probably informed by Benioff's false belief that Dany "feels like she has this almost divine mission and nothing is gonna prevent her from achieving it". The Dany of the books is neither prophecy-driven nor aware of her heroic destiny and, while it wouldn't be a problem if she were, it is a problem in the show because its writers constantly undermine, look down upon and villainize her character for her ambition, her drive and her self-awareness.

*

MERO: Show me your cunt. I want to see if it’s worth fighting for.

GREY WORM: My Queen, shall I slice out his tongue for you?

DAENERYS: These men are our guests.

In the books, as I've already mentioned in my review of episode 3.7 above, Grey Worm and Dany's brief interaction is different. I like how their show interaction displays his protectiveness of her, though it was unnecessary to add more sexual harassment to do so. Also, in the books, Jorah is the one outraged at Mero's treatment of Dany, though not primarily because she doesn't deserve to be treated like this, but rather because he wants to keep her to himself:

“I will like the taste of your tongue, I think.”

She could sense Ser Jorah’s anger. My black bear does not like this talk of kissing. (ASOS Daenerys IV)

*

DAENERYS: You seem to be enjoying my wine. Perhaps you’d like a flagon to help you ponder.

MERO: Only a flagon? And what are my brothers in arms to drink?

DAENERYS: A barrel, then.

MERO: Good. The Titan’s Bastard does not drink alone. In the Second Sons, we share everything.

In the books, Dany gives Mero a wagon of wine too, but there is a strategic reason behind why she does so - it makes them easier targets to attack at night:

“An hour past midnight should be time enough.”

“Yes, Khaleesi,” said Rakharo. “Time for what?”


“To mount our attack.”


Ser Jorah Mormont scowled. “You told the sellswords—”

“—that I wanted their answers on the morrow. I made no promises about tonight. The Stormcrows will be arguing about my offer. The Second Sons will be drunk on the wine I gave Mero. And the Yunkai’i believe they have three days. We will take them under cover of this darkness.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

In the show, there's no purpose behind her favor, which is ultimately just what it seems to be. Unfortunately, this goes in line with the show writers' tendency to diminish Dany's skills and agency, which I've already criticized above.

*

MERO: In the Second Sons, we share everything. After the battle, maybe we’ll all share you. I’ll come looking for you when this is over. DAENERYS: Ser Barristan, if it comes to battle, kill that one first. BARRISTAN: Gladly, Your Grace.

I've said above that Dany's order to kill Mero first in battle was decontextualized from the books to the show in a way that prevents it from showcasing her competence. Here's why:

“The Second Sons have faced worse odds and run. At Qohor, when the Three Thousand made their stand. Or do you deny it?”

“That was many and more years ago, before the Second Sons were led by the Titan’s Bastard.”

“So it is from you they get their courage?” Dany turned to Ser Jorah. “When the battle is joined, kill this one first.”

The exile knight smiled. “Gladly, Your Grace.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

As we can see from the quote, in the books, Dany orders Jorah to kill Mero first in battle to Mero's face in response to his poor attempt of self-aggrandizement. By doing so, she aptly manages to undermine him, which makes this a noteworthy display of her rhetoric skills and her self-composure.

On HBO, show!Dany tells show!Barristan (instead of Jorah) to kill Mero first as an emotional response to him slapping show!Missandei's butt. This change is both gratuitous (since it's more harassment that was never in the books to begin with) and superfluous (since we already knew that show!Dany has admirable moral principles, but we didn't get to know more about her capabilities like we do in the books).

Scene 8

This scene is pointless (for being about minor characters who were never meant to have scenes of their own and taking up time that could have been invested on show!Dany's development and storyline), redundant (for not telling us anything about them that we didn't already know) and offensive (for giving us more unnecessary profanity and female sexualization).

First, the scene doesn't even spend that much time on these commanders' decision-making, it's mostly about being gratuitous for its own sake:

MERO: She won’t talk so much when she’s choking on my cock. DAARIO: Eight thousand Unsullied stand between her and your cock. MERO: My cock will find a way. Tell him. Is there any place that my cock can’t reach? DAARIO: She’ll tell me whatever you pay her to tell me.

What does this say about Mero other than the fact that he's a misogynistic prick (which was already abundantly clear)? Why are we getting a scene featuring him that isn't seen through show!Dany's eyes?

PRENDAHL: That dragon bitch. She talks too much. DAARIO: You talk too much.

Like I said above, the show gives us more time with Prendahl and still manages to give him less detailed motivations than in the books (where he's not just driven by misogyny, but also by resentment for the deaths of his relatives during Dany's sack of Astapor).

MERO: Daario Naharis, the whore who doesn’t like whores.

DAARIO: I like them very much. I just refuse to pay them. And I’m no whore, my friend.

MERO: She sells her sheath, and you sell your blade. What’s the difference?

DAARIO: I fight for beauty.

PRENDAHL: For beauty?

MERO: We fight for gold.

DAARIO: The Gods gave men two gifts to entertain ourselves before we die, the thrill of fucking a woman who wants to be fucked and the thrill of killing a man who wants to kill you.

MERO: You’ll die young.

I'm gonna talk more about this when show!Daario meets with show!Dany in the next scene, but I really dislike the implication that he is only motivated to fight for show!Dany because of her beauty rather than because she has more chances to come off as the upcoming battle's winner. In the books, Dany's victory against Yunkai was certain (her main struggle, as I already said, was that she didn't want so many of her freedmen to die in battle).

Show!Daario's hedonistic nature is arguably in character with his book counterpart:

“...I count no day as lived unless I have loved a woman, slain a foeman, and eaten a fine meal ... and the days that I have lived are as numberless as the stars in the sky. I make of slaughter a thing of beauty, and many a tumbler and fire dancer has wept to the gods that they might be half so quick, a quarter so graceful. I would tell you the names of all the men I have slain, but before I could finish your dragons would grow large as castles, the walls of Yunkai would crumble into yellow dust, and winter would come and go and come again.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

But this is beside the point. Again, why are we spending time with him and these men when they were only meant to service Dany's development and storyline in the books?

Their strategic concerns are only briefly addressed and their plan to solve them is ridiculous and nonsensical:

PRENDAHL: What do we do about the dragon girl? We can’t beat eight thousand Unsullied on the battlefield.

MERO: There won’t be a battle, and we don’t have to deal with her eunuchs. We only have to deal with her.

PRENDAHL: She’s wellguarded.

MERO: Tonight’s a new moon. One of us slips into her camp past her Unsullied and her knights.

What's even stupider than the plan itself is the fact that it works in the show. Yes, the show validated Mero's plan, because it would rather show off his abilities rather than those of its female protagonist. To validate anything that Mero says or does reinforces how tone-deaf the show writers are to the unfortunate implications in their writing.

In the books, Dany's guards are actually competent and catch Daario when he attempts to meet with her, so this plan obviously wouldn't have worked there:

“The Unsullied caught one of the sellswords trying to sneak into the camp.”

“A spy?” That frightened her. If they’d caught one, how many others might have gotten away?

“He claims to come bearing gifts. It’s the yellow fool with the blue hair.”

Daario Naharis. “That one. I’ll hear him, then.” (ASOS Daenerys IV)

To top it all off, their moronic plan is worked out while another woman is being sexualized just for the sake of it:

DAARIO: Which one of us?

MERO: Close your eyes, love. Three coins. A coin from Meereen, a coin from Volantis, and a coin from Braavos. The Braavosi does the deed. One for each of us, darling. No peeking. 

DAARIO: Do you hear me? Follow my voice. I’m right here. You have something for me? Valar Morghulis.

I'm not trying to say that the books are free from gratuitous sexualization and misogyny; they are definitely not. That being said, the military commanders' and the envoy's slut-shaming of Dany stands in contrast with how Dany becomes a mother and a cult figure to the Yunkish freedmen by the end of the same chapter. This contrast could be interpreted as social commentary about how Dany falls prey to a Madonna-whore dichotomy based on whether she's loved or hated by the people of this patriarchal world. The moments where Dany interacts with these men in the books (and the show) add to such social commentary; this show only scene where these men interact with each other without show!Dany's presence don't have anything meaningful to say. It manages to be both pointless and offensive at the same time.

Scene 9

DAENERYS: Nineteen?

MISSANDEI: Yes, Your Grace.

DAENERYS: How can anyone speak languages?

MISSANDEI: It only took Your Grace a year to learn Dothraki reasonably well.

DAENERYS: Yes, well, it was either learn Dothraki or grunt at my husband and hope… What do you mean, “reasonably well”?

MISSANDEI: Dothraki is difficult for the mouth to master. So guttural and harsh.

DAENERYS: Drogo said I spoke Dothraki like one born to it. It gave him great pride.

MISSANDEI: Athjahakar.

DAENERYS: Athjahaka.

MISSANDEI: Athjahakar.

DAENERYS: Athjahakar. Well, I suppose I’m a bit out of practice.

MISSANDEI: Your High Valyrian is very good, Your Grace. The Gods could not devise a more perfect tongue. It is the only proper language for poetry.

I love show!Dany and show!Missandei's relationship and am up for any scene where the two get to interact with each other just for the sake of it. That being said, why does their first bonding moment have to be about how show!Dany's Dothraki language skills aren't as developed as she thought they were? Ugh, she is so lacking in self-awareness because she's too arrogant, amirite? Only a man who's sexually interested in her would praise her skills, amirite (more on this later)? The underlying implications in these show only additions are annoying and unintended at best and offensive and malicious at worst.

Besides, why couldn't they have had show!Dany and show!Missandei talk to each other about their difficult past experiences and how they empathize with one another? Why couldn't the scene have focused on showing that they are growing fond of each other or explored the interesting aspects of their book dynamic (With the necessary adjustments to fit show!Missandei's age, of course)? So much wasted potential.

Also, I hate that they have show!Dany say that her Dothraki is rusty, since it implies that she hasn't been interacting with her khalasar at all (unlike in the books, where she constantly talks to them and/or thinks of them and/or is shown to be in the same room with them).

*

I've already talked about how Daario never successfully invades Dany's camp in the books because her guards are actually qualified there and how this is another way to undermine her character's competence. I'm going to address other things now.

For starters, the setup of show!Dany and show!Daario's second meeting is changed from the books. There, she was fully clothed in the company of her retinue. On HBO, show!Dany is much more vulnerable: she is naked, taking a bath, with only with Missandei by her side and at the mercy of show!Daario's willingness to spare her. It's an unnecessary and offensive change made solely for the sake of hyping up show!Daario's character (at the expense of the female lead character's effectiveness).

I also want to focus on this part of their interaction:

DAENERYS: You were sent here to kill me? So why haven’t you?

DAARIO: I don’t want to.

DAENERYS: What do your captains have to say about that?

DAARIO: You should ask them.

DAENERYS: Why?

DAARIO: We had philosophical differences.

DAENERYS: Over what?

DAARIO: Your beauty. It meant more to me than it did to them.

DAENERYS: You’re a strange man.

DAARIO: I’m the simplest man you’ll ever meet. I only do what I want to do.

DAENERYS: And this is supposed to impress me?

DAARIO: Yes.

It's true that the Daario of the books also brings up Dany's beauty as a reason why he decided to join her, but we shouldn't take his word for granted. Unlike in the show, the books never question that Dany's odds of winning a battle against Yunkai are indeed very high, so it stands to reason that Daario turned to her side primarily because he's opportunistic and, as Dany puts it, "would sooner sup on gold and glory than on death".

Meanwhile, on HBO, because of the writers' numerous attempts to undermine show!Dany's military strength, skills, possessions and accomplishments, show!Daario's statement that he decided to join show!Dany because of her beauty seems like something that we're supposed to take at face value. This is gross and, in light of how they tried to imply that her subjects followed her primarily because of her beauty in the final season, predictable.

*

In the books, Dany is suspicious of Daario for a few reasons: she is initially afraid that he's spying for the sellswords and Yunkai (and that that would lead to her surprise attack backfiring) and considers the possibility that he's not really turning to her side, but rather that he simply wants to save his own skin. She accepts his service because she knows that he would have nothing to gain by betraying her (especially after he had already betrayed his fellow captains and after her dragons themselves failed to convey any hostile reaction against him), that his five hundred men would guarantee a victory against Yunkai and that she must be open-minded and trust other people, in spite of the prophecies about the upcoming treasons.

On HBO, show!Dany is also initially wary of show!Daario:

DAENERYS: You were sent here to kill me? So why haven’t you?

DAARIO: I don’t want to.

DAENERYS: What do your captains have to say about that?

~

DAENERYS: And this is supposed to impress me?

DAARIO: Yes.

DAENERYS: Why would I trust a man who murders his comrades?

However, as we can see, her questions are not the same. Unlike in the books, show!Dany is at show!Daario's mercy, so she questions why he didn't kill her right away (which signals, to her, that he might be trustworthy). Unlike in the books, show!Dany is (rightly) more doubtful of the killings of his fellow captains as indication of his reliability, especially since he could eventually do the same to her (though, again, he never does so when he has the perfect opportunity here) and since, unlike in the books, her dragons are not present in the scene (and, therefore, are not shown to lack any suspicion of him). It's certainly reasonable of show!Dany to accept show!Daario's service, though I wish she had more agency like she does in the books. It's irritating to see show!Dany being threatened (just for the sake of making a male supporting character seem more interesting to the audience) when she never had to be.

*

As a final note, Mero's early death is another change (along with Barristan's early identity reveal) that prevents Jorah's betrayal from being revealed the way it was in the books.

Main differences in GRRM's writing versus D&D's writing

GRRM's episode reinforces show!Dany's selflessness by showing her explicitly put her fight for the Iron Throne aside to focus on freeing thousands of Yunkish slaves and by having the Yunkish envoy offer her even more rewards than in the books (which highlights the extent of the sacrifices she's making for the Ghiscari slaves). D&D have undermined the extent of show!Dany's sacrifice in comparison to the books before and don't care about highlighting this aspect of show!Dany's character in episode 3.8.

GRRM's episode portrays show!Dany as competent and poised in her interactions with the Yunkish envoy. D&D's episode goes out of its way to undermine her and make the sellswords look better.

GRRM's episode features a new scene from the viewpoint of a minor character that adds to the storyline (because it highlights the oppression of the slaves). D&D's episode features a new scene from the viewpoint of minor characters that doesn't add add anything to the storyline (because it's focused on being gratuitous for its own sake).

With crucial differences like these, one can tell that show!Dany's portrayal would have improved if GRRM had been more influential in the show's writing choices. This is not to say that he's flawless or that the medium of a TV series doesn't have its own inherent limitations, only that he cares about her characterization, development and storyline in a way that D&D never did.

My comments on the Inside the Episode 3.7

Weiss: Daenerys is coming into her own in a powerful way in the season. She's always been very negatively predisposed towards slavery because she knows what it feels like to be property, I mean, she was a very fancy slave for all intents and purposes, she was somebody who was sold to another man, taken against her will and I think that her feelings about slavery have started to really inform her reasons for wanting the Iron Throne, it's finally started to occur to her that, if I want to take on this responsibility, it's almost - it's incumbent upon me to do something with it, and she sees this great wrong, probably the greatest possible wrong surrounding her, and she's decided that she's not just going to take back the Iron Throne because it's her right, she's gonna take back the Iron Throne because she is the person to make the world a better place than it is. She is going to not just take it, she's gonna use it for something greater than herself.

This is actually quite an insightful comment from Weiss's part; it's certainly much better than most comments (from him and especially from Benioff) that came before or that will come afterwards. I especially like that he acknowledges show!Dany's past as a sex slave and that he associates these past experiences with her decision to become an abolitionist.

I would only add three things: first, in the books, Dany is always aware that "it's incumbent upon [her] to do something with [power]", it's not something that only occurs to her after she becomes an abolitionist. Second, while show!Dany (and her book counterpart) imposes higher moral standards on herself than most characters of this series do, this doesn't mean that we should do the same. In other words, we shouldn't judge her too harshly if she ever decided to abandon her anti-slavery crusade, for she would simply be doing what any other feudal lord would do: focus on her individual goals. Third, to view show!Dany's attempts to do good (and her reflections about whether she's doing good) as something that anyone could or would do is dismissive of her character's individual principles and experiences and creates a lot of double standards against other characters.

Show!Dany's clothes

A Storm of Swords doesn't give us any description of Dany's outfits during the moments that the show is adapting in these two episodes, so I don't have much to comment. Here's a mosaic of all the outfits show!Dany wears during these two episodes:

I like that the white dress that show!Dany is wearing has a slave collar in homage to her freedmen, for what was once a symbol of oppression becomes one of social justice. Also, that dress is quite similar to show!Missandei's, making this another instance where they are seen with matching outfits: 

Also, @slytarg​ has speculated that show!Dany's clothes in season three were a homage to Mother Mary, which is an interesting possibility.

[rainhadaenerys]

I don’t even know why I keep reading anti Dany metas. I keep expecting that maybe they’ll have some reasonable argument, but they never fail to surprise me in how stupid they are, and how much they distort things. There’s this new meta that’s supposed to be some deep analysis of ADWD, and of how Dany is a bad queen. They keep harping on how Dany is bad because she thinks of “floppy ears” and because she dislikes the Meereenese. And this is such a ridiculous thing to say. This has no bearing in whether Dany is a good ruler or not. A ruler doesn’t have to like all their subjects to be a good ruler. In any government, you will always have people with different ideologies, and you are not obligated to like your political enemies. The people Dany dislikes are the Meereeense slavers. Those are the Meereenese that she hates, not the Meereenese freedmen or poor people. And again, this doesn’t make Dany “a bad ruler”. It doesn’t mean that Dany isn’t supposed to be a queen. The person also says that Dany hates Meereenese culture even when it’s not related to things that are oppressive, but this isn’t true. The culture that Dany hates is the culture of the slaver class, not of her freedmen. And again, whether Dany hates that culture or not doesn’t make her a bad ruler. She can hate the Meereenese slavers while still ruling and ruling well. Oh, and the meta also says that Dany “makes” people shave, but this isn’t true at all. The Shavepate choose to shave their heads on their own will to symbolize their alliance with the new regime, for their own personal reasons:

"My queen," growled Skahaz mo Kandaq, of the shaven head. Ghiscari hair was dense and wiry; it had long been the fashion for the men of the Slaver Cities to tease it into horns and spikes and wings. By shaving, Skahaz had put old Meereen behind him to accept the new, and his kin had done the same after his example. Others followed, though whether from fear, fashion, or ambition, Dany could not say; shavepates, they were called. Skahaz was the Shavepate … and the vilest of traitors to the Sons of the Harpy and their ilk. - Daenerys I ADWD

Daenerys doesn’t “make” people shave, or else everybody in Meereen would hve shaved, which is not the case.

Then they proceed to take many decisions of Dany that were very much reasonable, and try to distort it into something bad. Dany grants a rich woman her clothes and jewels back but not her house. And she does this because there were already freedmen living in the house. First, Dany decreed a pardon for everything that happened during the sack (which is necessary to keep peace in Meereen), so it’s not like she needed to give the woman anything. Dany was still conciliatory in giving the woman back her jewels and clothes. The woman was not homeless: she was living with her brother. But the freedwomen in her house would be homeless if Dany decided to give her house back. Dany’s decision was probably the best and most conciliatory decision she could make, but of course this anti would harp on why it’s horrible for a rich woman to lose her house. Funny how antis never worry about the freedwomen that would be homeless if Dany decided in favor of the rich woman.

Then they talk about Dany not punishing the crimes that happened during the sack, and completely ignore the fact that decreeing a pardon was necessary to keep peace in the city. If Dany had decided to punish the former slaves for rising against their masters, and to punish former slavers for their crimes against the freedmen, she would have war within Meereen, and I’m pretty sure antis would be harping about what a stupid ruler Dany is and how she is incapable of being conciliatory. But here, Dany shows herself to be conciliatory and makes a very reasonable decision that was probably the best decision she could make, and antis go talking about what a bad ruler she is.

Then Dany makes the decision that people will have to go to the temple and swear a sacred oath to get the money for their lost animals (that Drogo ate). Which is a very intelligent decision. Dany is not wrong in saying that some people will lie about Drogon burning their animais and bring burned bones to her that they burned themselves, just to get her money. In fact, Dany keeps receiving claims that Drogon burned their animals even after Drogo left the city and Dany chained her dragons:

Dany did not want to talk about the dragons. Farmers still came to her court with burned bones, complaining of missing sheep, though Drogon had not returned to the city. - Daenerys IV ADWD

So Dany is absolutely correct in saying that some people are deceiving her. Making people swear a sacred oath is smart, especially considering that the Shavepate’s suggestion was much more brutal (to whip everyone), and Dany refused his suggestion. But look at what this anti says about Dany because of this:

The pronouncement was received in sullen silence. You would think they might be happier, Dany thought. They have what they came for. Is there no way to please these people?

This quote says a lot about Daenerys. In her mind, the people should be happy because she’s willing to give them back what they lost, failing to consider how much trouble it would be for them to gather up the bones of their dead animals, bring them to Dany’s pyramid, and wait all day for just the chance to be heard by her. Dany thinks many of them lie about Drogon to try and get money or sheep, and thinks they should just be happy she’s giving them anything at all.

Like, wow. How is it such trouble to bring the bones as proof? Isn’t that what all the shepherds were already doing? And actually, this anti is incorrect, because they would not need to speak directly to Dany, they would just have to swear an oath at the temple. And the idea that Dany thinks “people should just be happy she’s giving them anything at all” is so false. This is definitely not what Dany thinks:

“No, Magnificence.” Reznak bowed. “Shall I send these rascals away, or will you want them scourged?”

Daenerys shifted on the bench. “No man should ever fear to come to me.” Some claims were false, she did not doubt, but more were genuine. Her dragons had grown too large to be content with rats and cats and dogs. The more they eat, the larger they will grow, Ser Barristan had warned her, and the larger they grow, the more they’ll eat. Drogon especially ranged far afield and could easily devour a sheep a day. “Pay them for the value of their animals,” she told Reznak, “but henceforth claimants must present themselves at the Temple of the Graces and swear a holy oath before the gods of Ghis.” – Daenerys I ADWD

I mean, what they say about Dany is a freaking lie. Dany is willing to help people, she never thinks “they should be happy I’m giving them anything at all”, what she actually thinks is “some claims were false, she did not doubt, but more were genuine”. But hey, antis lying through their teeth about Dany is nothing new. Besides, going back to the decision, how in hell is Dany unreasonable for this? This “meta” was supposed to prove that Dany is a bad ruler, but I think these decisions (the pardon, being conciliatory and not leaving freedwomen homeless, and asking people to swear an oath to avoid people cheating her) all prove that Dany is actually a very good ruler.

The anti also talks about how Dany is hypocritical for chastising a man for forgetting the name of his slave, but for also forgetting Hazzea’s name. But this is such a false equivalence. The man forgot the name of a woman who worked for him for years, showing that he never cared to even learn the name of his slaves. Dany remembered Hazzea’s name even though she only heard it once, and she never knew the girl, and only forgot Hazzea’s name when she was sick and hallucinating in the Dothraki sea. How the hell are these two things comparable? And Dany just told the man to buy a new loom for the woman, it’s not like she was whipping him through the streets, but the way antis talk, a slave being compensated for her years of service with a loom is the most heinous thing. Like, wow, Dany is so evil and such a bad ruler for this, right? *sarcasm*

Oh, they also say Dany is a bad and immature ruler because she throws fruits at Xaro. Even though Xaro is already someone she knows, and Dany doesn’t do this with anyone else. Apparently, things like this (or hanging her feet and not sitting in a queenly position) make Dany a “bad ruler”, despite the fact that this has little bearing in whether Dany is a good ruler or not (I mean, I think ending slavery and feeding her people are more important things than sitting correctly, but hey, since when Dany antis are reasonable or logical?), and in fact, Dany is usually very courteous:

In the afternoon a sculptor came, proposing to replace the head of the great bronze harpy in the Plaza of Purification with one cast in Dany’s image. She denied him with as much courtesy as she could muster. A pike of unprecedented size had been caught in the Skahazadhan, and the fisherman wished to give it to the queen. She admired the fish extravagantly, rewarded the fisherman with a purse of silver, and sent the pike to her kitchens. A coppersmith had fashioned her a suit of burnished rings to wear to war. She accepted it with fulsome thanks; it was lovely to behold, and all that burnished copper would flash prettily in the sun, though if actual battle threatened, she would sooner be clad in steel. Even a young girl who knew nothing of the ways of war knew that. – Daenerys I ADWD

They also talk about how Dany is bad for rejecting the peace, completely ignoring all the bad things that peace would bring, and how it benefited the slavers and was bad for the slaves. Oh, and apparently Dany is bad for wanting to forbid the fighting pits, saying that Dany should make regulations to stop people from being forced into the pits as if that was possible, even though the text shows us that it’s very difficult to avoid the fact that some people will indeed be forced and it’s difficult to regulate that, and that poor people would end up in this place.

They also talk about Dany’s mistake in leaving Astapor in Yunkai, ignoring the fact that this is wrong, Dany’s mistake wasn’t simply that she left, but that she left Astapor with no army, and that she left the masters in power in Yunkai. And none of these things make Dany a bad ruler in Meereen. These were mistakes that Dany did in ASOS, not in ADWD, because Dany was very inexperient and didn’t have good advisors. But Dany learns from these mistakes. Saying Dany is a bad ruler because of this makes no sense, because this happened in the past, and Dany has learned and will no longer make the same mistakes (and in fact, she doesn’t do the same mistake in ADWD, she doesn’t leave Meereen unprotected). But Dany antis expect Dany to be a good ruler from the very beginning even though she never had any experience before. They expect her to have never made any mistakes.

Finally, they talk about the wineseller’s daughter, and say that “It is one thing to torture someone you only suspect of being involved in a crime, but it is even worse to torture girls just to get at their father“, which is not what happened at all. First, we don’t know if they were girls, the text never says this. Second, the wineseller’s daughters were suspects. They were arrested with their father and were the only ones in the shop whe the poisoning happened. Dany is not “torturing people that she knows are innocent”. Like, I don’t like Dany allowing torture either, but I hate how Dany antis always distort what actually happened (usually by saying that the wineseller’s daughters were just little children that Dany knew were innocent”, which is not true), and I also hate how Dany antis use double standards and completely forget that torture is normal in this world, and even Jon Snow practices it (he does it for other reasons, but he does it). And this antis also conveniently ignores that once Dany realizes the Shavepate is forcing people to confess, she actually forbids torture (she is the only character to forbid torture).

Anyway, sorry that this post is such a mess, guys, I know it’s very badly written and disorganized. I wrote in a hurry, and mostly because this meta I just read annoyed me. But I think the post really shows how Dany antis will really do anything to distort things, and turn even the things Dany does right into bad things. The only “bad thing” here is the torture, but this is also a double standard against Dany. Anyway, is Dany a good ruler? Yes, she is.

[letbarbieshavedragons]

What's up with the Rheagar hate in general? I never got that. Rhaegar seems to be hated across the fandoms?! Hats off for accomplished THAT Grrm, never have seen something like that😂. But no seriously, why? Like sure, prophecy-driven, reckless running of with a pregnant teenager, leaving his wife&children, starting a war etc... its shit, but i have seen way worse. WE ALL HAVE, i mean look at Tywin, Caster, the Mountain, Euron (and thats are only the fuckers in the same story!!)

And that while the worst villians ever have apologists, because they have a sad backstory?! Wouldn't Rhaegar fit in perfectly in that? Him being emo, beautiful, loner, having a abusive father, making one mistake after anothery even tho he should have known better etc. Don't get me wrong, i feel indifference towards him, like to ALL pre-asoiaf. Since i dont get how you can stan or hate a 'character' where we only have like 5 lines about?! But how?

I’m assuming these are the same asks lol, since they seem to flow together, but sorry if it’s a coincidence and I just happened to get three asks about Rhaegar in a row lol

Also sorry in advance for the long reply, this topic has always made me curious as well lol

Anyhoo, I agree. it definitely surprised me as well how strongly some people feel about Rhaegar. and I say that as someone who doesnt really like Rhaegar all that much either . Tho, I’m in the same boat. I can’t say I hate him, when I really don’t know/haven’t seen enough of him for me to form any strong emotional connection to him. The show pretty much glossed over him so no insights there and the books still have a lot of explaining to do on that front. Although, That being said, I don’t really expect my opinion of him will improve if as the books continue

From what I’ve seen tho there are a lot of reason why people dislike him (I’ve got a list myself), but like you said in the grand scheme of asoiaf, he’s really not that bad. So why is there more anti Rhaegar discourse than anti-the Mountain (who is unquestionably worse) or less love for Rhaegar then Cersei (who has done also done worse)

My best guess is (and this is just my personal speculation), it has a lot in common with the reason people got so mad at Sansa in s8 (myself included) when she too really didn’t do anything that bad by GoT standards. In fact, it’s funny, you see a lot of people compare her to Cersei or Littlefinger in a derogatory light but those same people will actually like Cersei/Littlefinger. (I say those people when I maysled do this lol) Which I think, reveals it perfectly. Its about perception. It’s about how everyone else in the show reacts and how we the audience are supposed to “view” it.

People liked Cersei when she did dubious shit bc there was recognition that it was wrong. From other the characters, the narrative and the fans. Cersei did villainous shit and was a villain for it. Same with Joeffrey, the mountain, Littlefinger etc... Sansa on the other hand did villainous shit and... was rewarded for it? Got QiTN? Like it felt like we were supposed to view her coronation like Robb’s or Jon’s when it was really more like Cersei’s. And I know that pissed me off. If your going to have a good guy act like the villain, talk like the villain and dress like the villain then you need to recognize they aren’t a good guy anymore (sorry small tangent)

And I think Rhaegar falls into a somewhat similar situation. His reputation is surprising positive considering all the shit he’s pulled and I think that frustrates a lot of people. Especially when they hear people like Ser Barristan and Daenerys speak highly of him. It can certainly feel like his faults get glossed over for the image of the perfectly chivalrous prince, when just on the little we know, that can’t be right. And then the show glamorizing it probably just frustrates people even more.

And I would argue that not all the fans hate Rhaegar, I just think his haters tend to be surprisingly vocal about it. Like I know a lot of casual fans that love him bc they never bothered/cared to actually look closely at his behavior and just see a tragic “forbidden love” story. And then some that just don’t care or view him like you said as a sad tragic emo boy that needs love. But all that really does I think it as fuel to the discourse fire bc now not only do the characters not realize how dubious he was, but a good chunk of fans don’t know or don’t care either which can feel like he gets away with literally everythubg and can be a hero so long as he keeps the dashing prince vibes going.

Although I will say I think the narrative does at least recognize the truth, and as the series continue I think we’ll see a perspective shift as we’ll, but who knows when that will be.

Plus there’s the fact that despite being dead, Rhaegar still has so much impact on the story. And it’s pretty easy to hold the repercussions of his actions against him when you don’t actually get to understand him or see what he’s like. It’s hard to empathize with a character you never get to meet.

But Like I said, that’s just my conjecture. I’m in the same boat. I think Rhaegar’s kind of a dick but 🤷‍♀️ it’s GoT, who ain’t?

[randombtsprincessa]

Why I believe Daenerys is not fit to rule.

Ok, so I’ve been watching Game of Thrones with my mother and since Season 7, I have vehemently been in favour of Starks.

Now, my mother keeps asking me why I have suddenly given up on Dany as a Queen. She says that I am biased against her for Sansa. Well, for sure, that might be true. But there are many reasons. 

Disclaimer: I haven’t yet finished all the books so I will reserve commenting and judgement on them. As a lit student, it is expected of me to be critical of the source itself as my professors kindly pointed out but that’s bull. Even a script is a source right? Especially when the show is different from the book. 

Also, Sansa is not here. This isn’t a comparison. This is just showing Dany is not a good queen or fit to rule anything.

So here I go.

Dany was Stormborn, hence the name. She was Princess of Dragonstone, a babe left motherless and under the care of her brother who steadily grew vicious and insanely power-hungry. Let’s keep his entitlement aside for the moment. We know he was present in King’s Landing, he knew what being a Royal, a Prince meant. He wanted that life - I can understand that.

But Viserys’s decline made him susceptible, his protectors filled his ears with false truths to take blatant advantage of him and he was as much a victim of poor counsel as Dany. Only, he never reached the point of realising that or being able to do anything about it. By the time, he could, he was far gone into his mind that he was too far to be brought back. 

It could be during his teens or early twenties when he started his descent. This is probably when he turned of Dany, already blaming her of their mother’s death and ‘waking the dragon’. 

Viserys, we’ve all known as a villain. Why? Because he was portrayed as one to us while Dany was a poor helpless girl. 

Dany must have known that her brother was being wrongfully led by Illyrio. She even said so to Jorah. Even Jorah told her that people in Westeros prayed for a better life, not rulers. So why is it that Dany’s mindset doesn’t undergo a change? Again, we will leave the Entitlement for later when we see it portrayed in location.

Coming down to why she is very like Viserys is when we start to see her grow. She just hides it better. Daenarys was lucky to have Drogo, because he was as good a husband as she could find among Dothraki. If she had been married to another, who probably had more than just her as a wife, as we see later, I doubt she would’ve fared well. But we see her growing accustomed to a life of violence very easily. When she had people to back her, she had no reason to fear a much stronger Viserys and managed to throw him off easily, even letting her Khal kill him when she knew that he was dangerous but also useless. 

The line she says that “Fire cannot kill a dragon.” is also telling. She never saw Viserys as family since she considers herself a dragon.But she is very impressed by Rhaegar (known as the last dragon) Where do we see that same quality? 

Cersei. She hates one brother (parallels - mothers die at childbirth, both dislike each other) and loves the other, who shows qualities that favor her.

Her brilliancy and why I like her (Yes, I do) is how well she moulds it. She never turned vicious personally. She never became Viserys, or Joffrey or Ramsay, thank god. Did she have potential? Fuck yes, she is a product of incest, inbreeding always leaves it’s mark and there was a running streak of danger in their wake.

She was good, kind, generous and knew her strengths and she played them well.

She was also good and letting people be violent for her. She wants to go “home” yet she would let her Husband and his men pilfer, pillage, rape in the homeland she wants. Is that a mark of a good queen? 

No, this is when I realised, Dany would never work in Westeros.

Sure, Westeros has had bad rulers, Joffrey, Cersei, Mad King but a ruler who attacks the country - not only with Dragons but also outsiders who have no control? 

The Maegi saw this, the Maegi acted. You cannot pretend that she wasn’t thinking of Westeros similar to her land when she took her revenge. You also cannot pretend that Dany would’ve been able to stop Drogo from letting his Khalasar destroy Westeros as she tried to do before. Drogo himself sided with his men before saying he wouldn’t hear anything about it. What did his men do? They rebelled and fought. Would Drogo take such a risk in Westeros, a foreign land? I don’t think so. It would’ve been him, who would be ruler because Dothraki don’t recognise female leaders, not unless she manages to rise from flame unharmed. Were Drogo alive, Dany would never be put in fire and never have such command. 

She was still willing to lead such a hoard to the West. This just adds to how short-sighted her venture was. So she kills the witch, and from her blood, magics Dragons into the world.

From the moment we get to Quarth, we can see Dany in the position Viserys was in, fraternal because she was Mother to Dragons. She was much more better a candidate than her brother would ever be. Dany takes time to realise this as well, but since she has to as the good guy, she finds out about Daxos and Doreah and locks them in to die. Again, a death that is understandable.

We’ll skip Yunkai and Astapor. It was clear here that Dany’s luck was phenomenal and so was her act of deceit. She barters and then betrays. I understand the “Unsullied” scene. A dragon in that bastard’s hand called for emergency and Dany handles it well.

Yunkai was a mess. The Second Son’s Daario just so happens to fall for the pretty queen and betrays his partners. She “liberates” the city...then leaves it to be. What? Where’s the order? You think they’re just magically going to figure out a system when you TAKE the system and kill it? 

Her Conqueror and not Ruler side is glaringly obvious here.

She does the same in Mereen. 

Now, I have a few points to say for her “advisers”. We’ll start with Missandei. She is a translator and undoubtedly very useful and very loyal. She also gives the common people a voice...then why does she not do that? She says it’snot her place, not because she thinks herself inferior but because she knows no politics. And ruling is politics. Killing off the Masters was terrorising, an act of control. Missandei keeps saying that if she wished it Dany would let her go back to Naath. Guess what? She does want to as we see in S8, then why hasn’t she done so?

Surely she doesn’t want to die in a battle that is strictly speaking not hers since she doesn’t even want to stay in Westeros. She wants to leave “when this is over” so what is making her stay? Loyalty...or fear?

Grey Worm, bless his soul is easier. He was a slave, and still is. No one can persuade me that Grey Worm doesn’t feel still subjugated. He was made into a soldier, not trained. You cannot just burn someone’s masters, no matter how cruel, ask your now freed soldiers to fight or leave and expect anyone to leave. All they know is war. Where will they go even if they leave? You burned their city and they have no life. Psychologically, you hold the whip, you own them. 

It’s highly unlikely Grey Worm has forgotten this. But he is starting to with Missandei. He will want to leave with her and Dany will lose the main man to control her army. Let’s see how she reacts. If Dany as her character arc in S8 is the same, she will be mad, but if the directors want to keep her squeaky clean she will be happy. Don’t trust D&D.

Jorah and Barristan who were the most knowledgeable in Westerosi politics, both are shown to be lost to her. Either this is a play that Dany just doesn’t want to listen to reason or that she doesn’t care.

Her rule in Mereen is nothing short of incompetent and stupid. To rule you have to understand the city. Instead of letting the city stay as it were under her rule, making changes she saw would benefit the residents, she immediately expects the city and public to change in adherence to her. The Crucifixion was also dumb. You don’t want people to do that, so what’s the best way to ensure that they don’t? Oh yeah, do exactly that. Instead of settling the city, she destroyed it’s foundations and insults it’s traditions. She calls it Liberation, it is actually called A Dumbass Dictator.

Naturally she is met by resistance in Sons of Harpy and the Masters who wanted to take back Mereen in her absence.

Mereen solidified my claim that Dany cannot rule. Even Daario says “You’re a conqueror, not meant to be Queen”

She leaved the man who can actually advise her against cheats and frauds, I mean, what?

Now, let’s see her behaviour with Westerosi people. 

Her entitlement is stupidly obvious here and how much she is like Viserys and the Mad King is being made glaring. She expects people, people that her family quelled by fear, that her father tormented, people that wholeheartedly supported Robert’s Rebellion to expect the daughter of a king who was famous for burning people. Lookie, Dany is famous for that too now with the Tarlys. Like father, like daughter.

When she tells Jon to not judge her by her father’s crime, it is expected of you to not repeat those crimes. You cannot give men who hate your house to bend the knee or die. You cannot burn people and then cry, “I’m not my father...who also burned people.”

Dany is parallel to how the Man king killed Brandon and Rickard Stark. Father and Son killed together by father, and now by daughter.

She also gives the Greyjoys, Dorne and Olenna free reign but won’t give North it’s independence. Why? Because they were important, they were helping her and she needed allies. Her need is free to compromise but the North’s isn’t. She recognised that now she is in the position of power, so she can walk around bossing people about.

“My father killed your lords and I have done the same but I am a better ruler.”

That is such bull. Her entitlement and her stupidity made me lose all respect I had for her. She admits to knowing the game but is shown to be least bothered with it. Her idea of breaking the wheel was impressive, before I realised that she didn’t want a wheel simply because she wanted to be the sole holder of power. If that isn’t Dictatorship then what is? 

She makes it a point that without dragons she is nothing, Targaryens were nothing special without their mounts and they are her children. She is also least concerned by them. I have not yet seen her mourn Viserion and I cried for the entire night. TMI...

Also, Sansa is just plain better and Dany disrespects her a lot. She comes into her home. and what? Sprawls out with her extra men and that “Whatever they want”?? 

Winterfell is where we started our story. It is our home, our Hogwarts, we fought to get it back with Jon and Sansa and for Dany to mock it with no concern is plain infuriating.

Also, where and when did she become a manipulator? That scene was so disturbing, especially since Sansa grew up with Cersei, Tyrion, Littlefinger and the Tyrells. That hand back off was just...it showed how insincere she is.

She isn’t even bothered about Jon being her nephew, her sole concern is his claim being stronger than hers. 

Dany can see that she is losing foothold when she is used to being put on a pedestal. People are seeing how useless she really is in matters of politics and warfare and it scares her.

“I take the Iron Throne.” 

I have questions.

How will you rule? What then? What about the future? One that you have made bleak for you, how are you going to correct it?

[nightmare-dressed-as-a-fangirl]

Okay, Not Sure If This Is An Unpopular Opinion, But...

Disliking the season 8 of Game of Thrones because of the shitty writing is fine and fair. With the condensed timeline and so many threads left to tie off, yeah, the writing is pretty lackluster. I admit that.

HOWEVER, I feel like disliking this season because your favorite character turned out to be not so great after all is just...a little bit childish. 

Daenerys becoming mad is totally not the problem of this new season. In fact, I’d even argue it’s literally the only believable trajectory of her character arc. It just makes sense. Why? 

She’s the product of centuries’ worth of incest. That alone is an enough reason to accept the fact that her becoming mad is not that far-fetched. 

She really believes that it’s her right to rule the Seven Kingdoms, A PLACE SHE HASN’T EVEN BEEN TO, just because of her family name. In other words, she’s entitled, and entitlement is not really a good thing for a ruler to have. Remember what Tywin said? “Any man who must say 'I am the King' is no true king.” Well, he’s not wrong about that.

She’s literally A WHITE COLONIZER. 

She believes that it’s her destiny to save the world. If you open a history book — especially the history of colonized countries — you’ll see that this whole “it’s my destiny to save the world” is exactly the reasoning that colonizers used when they were out there colonizing countries.

Her rise to power is literally built on the backs of people of color. Once again, a typical colonizer move. How exactly did you think the Spanish Empire, the British Empire, and the U.S. Empire got so powerful? Oh, right — that’s because they conquered almost the entire world. And when wars occurred, who fought for them? THE PEOPLE THEY COLONIZED. 

Colonizers grow their power not because they’re loved by people or because they’re great rulers. They grow their power because they have weapons that they can use to subdue the colonized. Dany has her dragons (her magical nukes). And we know exactly what she does to people who don’t bend the knee to her: she burns them. Who wouldn’t be subdued by that?

The show’s theme is literally ALL ABOUT POWER AND HOW IT CORRUPTS EVEN THE MOST WELL-INTENTIONED PERSON. 

Look what happened to people who craved power. Margaery, Tywin, Lord Frey, and a lot others. And oh, Stannis. Look at what they’ve done just to attain power. Stannis is just the perfect example for this. He was a very level-headed man, but look what his desire for power did to him — it literally drove him mad. He burned his own daughter because he really thought it was going to bring him power, for Christ’s sake! 

So, Dany going mad because of power is totally understandable. And her downfall because of power — just like how Tywin, Margaery, and Stannis fell because of power — is not something to be shocked over. 

The biggest problem this show has done is that it kind of downplayed the signs of Dany becoming a villain and glorified her instead. There were signs scattered throughout the seasons. Some that pop into my head are:

Her solving the problems in Meereen by burning everything to the ground

Ser Barristan Selmy once counseling her to show mercy but her ignoring him and telling him that what’s doing is “justice”

Daario telling her that she wasn’t meant to be a ruler because she’s a conqueror

Her admitting that she didn’t feel anything when she let go of Daario. The only person who she thought she loved and who loved her, and yet she didn’t feel anything because she was eager to get on with it and seize the throne. She even admitted to Tyrion that she was terrified that she felt nothing. THAT WAS A GODDAMN SIGN. 

Tyrion counseling her to show mercy to the Tarlys but once again her ignoring him and burning them without any hesitation

I’m sure there are many others, but I’m tired, and I can’t list them all ahahahahhahaha. 

Basically, what I’m saying is that yes, there were signs hinting this turn of events. But then the show got overboard with the idea of dragons and an underdog getting power that it kind of set aside the trajectory of her becoming a villain. And plus, there’s the shitty writing. This would’ve been a great plot twist if only the execution was just as great. 

I’m not saying that Daenerys is full-out bad. That’s just as stupid statement. She’s not my favorite, but she is an interesting character. Her arc fits in the whole theme of the story. She’s well-intentioned, I’ll give her that — she started out liberating slaves and whatnot, that’s pretty great and noble, sure. But even if she has good intentions, it doesn’t mean she’s indestructible — it doesn’t mean that she’s safe from going down. 

The only thing she’s ever wanted is to sit on the Iron Throne. Power is literally the only thing that keeps her going. So, it just makes sense that power is what will cause her death in the end. 

But then again, what do I know? I’m just a casual fan who enjoys watching the show and examining the characters’ motivations. I’m just stating an opinion, and it could be wrong or it could be right. Whatever’s the case, that’s just what I think. And since I have no one to say my thoughts to, I decided I might as well write a blog post. My brain is literally never shutting up until I do anyway. 😂

So, yeah. These are just my opinions. They are, by no means, facts. That’s all. Thank you. 

[stardyng]

do u hate dany in both the books and the show? or just the show?

I only really dislike her character in the show. A summary of why I dislike her would be that she’s a bit of a tyrannical figure, she’s an imperialist, she makes a lot of incoherent decisions, a lot of what she does highlights her complete incompetence and she doesn’t put importance to a lot of the things she should have put attention on (the slaves after freeing them from slavery are a perfect example of her being negligent of the things that truly matter). I have been able to empathize and even like other characters who have done things just as bad or worse than her, yet on the other hand, I dislike her and there’s two main reasons for that. 

The first one is that I don’t think there is enough humanness to her character. There’s a clear lack of scenes after the first season that highlights certain qualities of hers that might help me in sympathizing with her or in being invested in her journey and her goals, and the scenes we actually get evidently only explores that side of her character in a really artificial manner. Ultimately, whenever she does anything good or badass, I really can’t bring myself to really care about it because nothing in the show has brought me to care about her besides the amount of screen time she has. Cersei is a villain but I can absolutely sympathize with her because the show elaborated pretty well on why she does everything that she does, and highlighted the aspects of her character that would bring me to feel empathetic of her whenever something bad happens to her specifically. Daenerys doesn’t really have that. The second reason is that that most of the audience won’t actually acknowledge the atrocities she committed or any of her mistakes…and these two things basically sum up my reasoning in disliking her character. 

My feelings on her character in the books are pretty different. I wouldn’t say that it’s the complete opposite but it’s different. I still think she has a lot of the qualities that the show focuses on that makes her unlikable to me there, but she has a lot more, and it’s all of the other parts of her character that the show ignored and cast aside because it didn’t fit with their idea of a strong female character that made her likable to me. The books highlighted parts of her character that would make me feel bad for her while also understanding why she does what she does.

She’s presented as this young girl who never really had this chance to have a home or a childhood, who was always running from the latest danger. Therefore she would try to grasp every opportunity to build herself a home, whether it be with the Dothraki, at Meereen, and probably at the end, she will try to do the same with Westoros. The scene in the show where she talks about how Dragonstone doesn’t feel like home to her would actually be impactful if we knew how much that was important to her character, and  that this search for home is a major part of her motivation in the show as well. As I read about her dealing with the different circumstances in these places and with these people around her in the books, I can sympathize with her because I not only understand her goal, but I am emotionally invested in seeing them be realized. I obviously do not want her on the Iron Throne because that’s not what she wants though. She really wants the House Of The Red Door which is a culmination of everything that really matters to her (a childhood, a home, and positive figures of authority) that was stolen from her. Also, as I mentioned before, she always had to run from everywhere she went. She realized the importance of not looking back (at that time, it was more related to running, but now it has more to do with her decision making), because if she did, it wouldn’t end well for her. 

Due to the fact that I empathize and I understand that, when she makes decisions that she stubbornly doesn’t want to reconsider, I am much less critical of them. I also genuinely enjoy her interactions with other characters. We get to see different sides to her character, with a lot of them highlighting some of the more appealing parts of her character. Her interactions with Barristan Selmy and Missandei in the books are personally a joy to read. The show tries to do the same thing but it doesn’t work because it feels so half-ass and insincere. Another part of her that I liked was that she was in constant internal struggle. Her internal circumstances are some of the more interesting when talking about the POV characters. She struggles with a lot of her decisions, she struggles with herself, she struggles with her morality, she struggles with dealing with her lost childhood, and she struggles with her wanting that lost childhood versus embracing fire and blood. All of that struggle makes her most crucial decisions that much more meaningful to me as a reader. There’s a lot that can be criticized about the way GRRM writes what happens around her, but as a character, I think she’s well written and really compelling. 

[sayruq]

what people take from the books/show is so varied depending on someone's background. i never liked dany, not even in agot, i couldn't identify with her, her hypocrisy is there from the start & the way she is in her final chapter just cemented it for me. burning mirri maz duur was wrong (drogo died cos he couldn't follow instructions & was being a baby) mmd may have planned revenge but at that point burning her was unjustified. dany is so awful in so many ways i'm astounded some see her as a hero

I made a post in which I showed that Mirri Maz Duur was largely innocent. Even if she wasn’t, how can anyone say with a straight face that she was wrong? What Drogo and his men did was horrible; if the Plaza of Punishment was enough for Dany to sentence everyone wearing tokars to death including children, then Drogo deserved to die. The reason no one including the author bothers to see things from the perspective of the various non white people we meet is because they are non white and she is white. She has a sense of innocence that Essosi girls and women lack, she’s smarter than every antagonist of hers (until ADWD and I have a theory about that). She’s the only one afford any humanity and character development. A whole continent feels stagnant unless she does something. Slaves look up to her, not Braavos who have gone to war repeatedly to try and beat slavery. Somehow she’s the first person ever to turn the Unsullied against the Astapori instead of paying or the first person to think to destroy the main source of trained slaves. Again the Braavosi have been struggling to end slavery for a long time. Basically instead of a realistic setting, we get the sense that everything in Essos exists to cater to her storyline. There was a whole backstory for Westeros in the main series revolving around Robert’s Rebellion, nothing like that exists in Essos.

If GRRM had planned to make Dany seem morally ambiguous, he failed because of the reasons stated above. No matter what people will believe she was a hero, again until ADWD when he needed her to be very obviously flawed but since he was still using racist tropes, a lot of his efforts failed. People in the fandom think Dany was justified for despising all aspects of the Meereenese culture down to their food. They don’t see how that hatred, that racism was part of the reason Dany accepted that she was a dragon, a conqueror not a peacemaker. They think she’ll righteously destroy the Sons of Harpy and then other city states and that’s largely because GRRM failed to humanise the characters of colour. He gave POV chapters to Barristan instead of say Grey Worm (who btw refused to use his birth name or choose a better name because he was called Grey Worm when Dany freed him lmao). He realised he needed more POV characters to flesh out the conflict in Meereen and chose a white character who also despises the Meereenese and their culture. This is why the Meereenese knot exists, not because the conflict is very complex (he managed fine in the first few books), it’s because it was so one sided that he struggled to tell a well rounded story.

All of that is evident to fans of colour who dislike Daenerys. Every part of her storyline has some racist trope worked into it. There’s no escape, you can ignore some of the smaller things but you’d get hit with a major one regularly. Honestly it’s a problem in the Dornish storyline too but at least we have Arianne and Quentyn’s chapters. 

I know I said giving an Unsullied a few POV chapters or a Meereenese would be better than Barristan Selmy getting them but I just realised it would either be “Mhysa is the greatest” vs misogynistic, violent rants about a slavery loving moustache twirling caricature of an Arab. That’s how much GRRM is dedicated to the racial hegemony.

[beneaththeweirwoodtree-blog]

So, I’ve seen many threads where people comment that they dislike Sansa because she hasn’t accomplished anything on her own or because she always needs saving. There are frequent comparisons to the more (supposedly) independent and badass characters like Margaery, Brienne, Arya, and Dany, all made with the intent to demonstrating that Sansa is weak and stupid. 

But really, in life and in ASOIAF (and Game of Thrones, by extension), no man is an island. Literally every character has help from another person. 

Brienne: helped by her father allowing her to train as a knight; helped by Renly at the ball; further helped by Renly when he takes her into his kingsguard (even if she did deserve it based on merit, it would be perfectly within his rights to refuse a lady knight); helped by Catelyn to escape after Renly’s death; helped by Jamie when captured. 

Margaery: tutored by Olenna Tyrell in the art of manipulation. Yes, I know Olenna is her grandmother, but it’s still help. Aided in allying with the Lannisters by Littlefinger.

Arya: gets sword fighting lessons from Syrio (after being arranged by Ned); escapes the coup in King’s Landing via help from Syrio and Yoren; aided by Gendry who coveres her identity; helped by Jaquen at Harrenhal; helped by Sandor Clegane during road trip across Westeros (yes, Sandor has selfish reasons, but it’s still help); help from Lady Crane after her unpleasant wounding in Braavos. 

Dany: helped during her entire childhoob by people like Ilyrio who hope that one day the Targaryens will be restored and can repay them; helped by Jorah during her transition to being Khaleesi; given guidance from Ser Barristan; helped by Daario when he agrees to be her champion (again, for selfish reasons on his part but definitely still help); helped by Varys and all his behind-the-scenes manipulation to help the Targaryens; helped by Tyrion Lannister in politics.

And it’s not just the women who have help from others; it is damn near everyone.

Jamie: helped by Cat Stark (yes, it is for Cat’s own benefit,  but it’s still help); helped  by Brienne in getting across Westeros; helped by Tyrion to get sword-fighting lessons; Bronn provides the lessons; Bronn saves him when he decides to go after Drogon. 

Tyrion: gets help from Bronn on too many occasions to count (yes, it’s because he’s paying him, but there’s no way Tyrion survives the trial by combat without him); Pod saves his life during the Battle of the Blackwater; Jamie frees him from his cell after his trial; Varys gets him across the Narrow Sea.

Jon Snow: is helped by Ned via a solid education; is brought back to Castle Black by his friends to prevent him from abandoning his post; helped by Quorin Halfhand (for the benefit of the Watch, but still saves Jon’s ass) who dies for him; Sam helps him win the post of Lord Commander; Melisandre literally brings him back to life. 

So, everyone in has help. As fans, we don’t discount their accomplishments because they have help from others. In the words of John Donne, “No man is an island entire of itself.” We don’t hate on all of the above listed characters for getting assistance from others, as we shouldn’t. So why people hate on Sansa for needing help?  Perhaps it is because she lacks agency and is seen as being entirely passive, though the books show us that she rebels in the small ways that are available to her. Yes, she absolutely has help from those around her, but then, so does everyone else. 

[itsdeelove]

Jon and Dany's relationship Explaination

From reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/6vpsrm/jon_and_dany_relationship_explanation/ u/solomon585858 Aug 24, 2017, 2:49 AM I found this comment on YouTube and thought it would've been a waste not to post it here: I've seen alot of comments lately that Jon and Danys romantic relationship is rushed, forced and/or pure fanfiction. I think these statements are wrong and that their relationship is actually one of the better, if not the best written and developed romantic relationship in the series. I'm gonna break down why I think so - beware, long f*cking post ahead: So, how when exactly does Dany and Jon start having feelings for eachother and why? First off, it's worth noting that time passes off-screen as well. Sansa tells us that Jon as been gone "for weeks". We don't know exactly how many, it could be 3, or 7. Point is that the show leaves plenty of time for Dany and Jon to actually develop feeling for each other, it's nothing that happens over the course of 2 days. If you're around someone you like for several weeks, chances are that you will start having romantic feelings for said person. It's also worth noting that both of these characters repress their feelings and do their best to hide it from the other. Jon is better at repressing his emotions because of his personality. He has a strong sense of duty and purpose, and probably the highest willpower in Westeros, and in his mind, the nr.1 goal is to defeat the Night King. Unlike Robb, Jon won't let love distract him. This is shown in the series as well, because we know for a fact that Dany and Jon love each other by the end of episode 5, and Dany has already cracked down and done two attempts (albeit half-heartedly) to show Jon her feelings for him by this point. He doesn't reciprocate her advances though (he still manages to repress his feelings), which she interprets that he doesn't love her. I actually believe that Dany was sincere when she said that "Jon Snow doesn't love me" to Tyrion in episode 6, she truly believed that he didn't at that point. So how did it all progress? We start in episode 3 with their first meeting. It doesn't start well, and it shouldn't. Dany does her usual "Submit to me, I'm the rightful Queen"-speech wich usually makes people either threaten or submit to her. Jon does neither, which she finds intriguing. She doesn't like him at this point, but she doesn't dislike him either. Jon on the other hand, shows some seriously bad diplomatic skills, which Tyrion points out later in the episode, but he's never rude or disrespects her, even when he asks if he's her prisoner now. By this point, both know that the other have been trough various stages of hell before they came here. In the next scene, they talk alone. Unsurprisingly, they find it easier to talk to eachother when there's not a room full of people watching them. There's some more disagreements, but Dany takes the first step at improving their relationship with the Dragonglass, and Jon can barely hide his surprise. Dany get's curious about Jons comment regarding him not liking what he's good at (which is a trowback to what Ser Barristan Selmy told Dany about her brother Rhaegar earlier: He was good at killing, but he never liked it) and throws a curious glance at Jons back when he leaves. End of episode 3 - They are friendly to eachother, and both are curious about the other. Not really any romance worth mentioning going on as of yet. In episode 4 their relationship improves further. Dany trusts Jon enough at this point to leave her guards behind, and why shouldn't she? He's never been hostile to her. In the cave Dany's resolve weakens somewhat when she see's the paintings. She still wants Jon to submit, but now she's trying to reason with him instead of simply demanding that he submits. Jon brings up why he can't bend the knee for the first time, instead of just saying that he won't. We also get to see Jon showing some feelings for Dany at the first time during this scene, when he eyes her constantly every time she looks away or looks at the wallpaintings. Davos brings this up later in the episode, and Jon doesn't deflect but freely admits that he is eyeing her out. He also states that there's no time for that kind of relationship with Dany. After the cave-scene Dany looses her temper with Tyrion when he brings the bad news. It's debatable if she's being unfair to Tyrion, but he is her hand and it was his plans that went to hell. Surprisingly, Dany turns to Jon for advice, and he not only gives her good advice, he also manages to soothe her firey temper. Jons ice soothes Danys fire. Quite beautiful in a way. End of episode 4 - Relationship improves. They are not just friendly to eachother, but they now trust eachother. Both have at this point secretly shown interest in the other. No romance, but something is definitely growing. In episode 5 things are starting to happen, and we get to see Dany having real feelings for Jon during this episode, even if she barely acts on them. Dany is clearly affected by Drogon and Jon having a moment. She's surprised and intrigued by what happens, and finds it very attracting. This has been confirmed by the showwriters and Emilia Clarke if it wasn't already obvious in the show; Dany got attracted to Jon in this scene. During their smalltalk later Jon is eying Dany out again, and what could've been a somewhat intimate moment about Jon having been killed and reborn is halted by Ser Jorah Friendzone, first of his name. In the next scene, Dany is for the first time, albeit not intentionally, open about her feelings for Jon. Both Tyrion and Jorah picks up on this. She clearly doesn't want Jon to leave, especially not on what is essentially a suicide mission. She does a half-hearted attempt at preventing his departure. In episode 3, she would've forcefully prevented him from leaving, but now in episode 5, her feelings for Jon have changed drastically. If anything, she seems to approve of Jon telling her that he doesn't need her permission to do anything. She's a Queen, but he's a King. We know that Dany is attracted to strong men who treat her with respect and as an equal. No more attempts at making Jon bend the knee. During the third and last scene in episode 5, Dany actually opens up to Jon about how she likes having him around. Jon does not reciprocate her feelings however (he probably wants to, but as we know, he's telling himself that he doesn't have time for a romance right now) and she wrongly interprets this as a sign that he doesn't have any romantic feelings for her. Again, I think Dany was 100% sincere in episode 6 when she thought that "Jon Snow isn't in love with me". Up to this point, Jon has only shown his romantic feelings for Daenerys when she isn't looking. How can she know? End of Episode 5 - Friendly relationship has grown into the start of a romantic relationship. Dany is clearly having romantic feelings for Jon at this point and can barely repress them. Jon has feelings for Dany as well, but unlike her, he can still repress them and hasn't shown them yet. Now, I'm not gonna delve deep into episode 6, since with all that's happened during episode 3,4,5 and that happens during episode 6, I'd say the emotional development between Dany an Jon makes 100% sense. Dany's feelings are obvious at this point (even if she tries to deflect them when Tyrion prods her), and when she flies north she is totally in love with Jon. Jon likewise finally cracks down in the end. Amazing what another near-death experience can do to your emotions right? Their feelings for eachother at this point makes sense; they have alot of things in common (que mandatory "including genes"-joke,). They've both had a long and arduous journey to get to this point. Both have followers who follow them, not out of fear, but out of respect and love. Both have strong feelings on how to rule for the betterment of the people. Both have been reborn in a way, and both have suffered greatly but managed to come back. Both are considered special by the people around them, and in eachother they meet a person who treats them like no one else has ever done before: Jon likes strong women, and Dany is by far the strongest (both in terms of willpower, determination and actual power) he's ever met. He likes that Dany, like himself, is willing to do things the hard way if it's the right way, and that she ultimately came to his aid when he needed it the most, even if she didn't have to. She put her money where her mouth is and he's clearly attracted to her and the stories surrounding her as well, but he won't admit it. Dany on the other hand is used to the fact that most strong men she meet either try to trample on her, take advantage of her, or simply care about her for her power and beauty. Que Jon Snow, elected King who treats her with nothing but respect, and as an absolute equal and who shares her view on ruling (people come first.) He also doesn't seem to care about her due to her power and beauty (unlike Daario who only cared about Dany because of her power and good looks). All of these are qualities that she finds intriguing. Jon pose a "challenge" for her in a whole new way; he won't submit but he won't relent. Then add the fact that Jon for some "mysterious" reason can pet and be near her dragons, which no other man has ever been able to and the attraction makes total sense. The culmination of their relation as of episode 6, and in my opinion the most beautiful thing in their relation so far, is how Jon metaphorically bends the knee in a situation where it's pointless for him to do so. This shows how much Jon actually loves and believes in her at this stage. He doesn't bend the knee out of a strategical advantage or in order to get her support anymore, he does it out of pure respect and love for a woman who was willing to risk everything in order to help and save him and his men, even if she didn't believe in him at first. Their love is mutual, beautiful, logical and not a single bit forced. By far the best romantic relation portrayed in this show so far. Jon is Ice, Dany is Fire, and this is the Song of Ice and Fire.

[flauntpage]

If Philadelphia Sports Figures were Game of Thrones Characters

(Caution: this post contains spoilers, so if you aren’t caught up on GOT, you’ve got less than 72 hours to binge)

  Ah yes.

Fire and blood. Incest and dragons and whatnot.

Game of Thrones returns this weekend.

I’ll be 100% honest with you; I’m not as hyped as I thought I would be. Maybe the two-year break dulled my senses, or maybe some of the story arcs lost me when the show writers moved past George R.R. Martin’s book material. It took Arya Stark five seasons to cross the sea, for example, then she came back and started killing everybody in five seconds, with laughable ease.

It felt like some plot lines were taking forever to develop, then they put the characters in a DeLorean time machine and stuffed four years worth of material into one season, like a high fantasy burrito. We had to endure the Sand Snakes and redundant Ramsey Bolton behavior along the way. Every sadistic move delivered diminishing returns, in my opinion.

But I’m still ready to roll. Jon and Daenerys are on the same side. Cersei can’t be trusted. The Hound is still out there, ready to eat every chicken in Westeros.

Here’s how we imagined Philadelphia sports figures as GOT characters:

Markelle Fultz as Jaime Lannister

Both were excellent at their craft, then they suffered arm issues and were never the same.

What role will they play in 2019?

-Kinkead

any Sixers 1st round draft pick as Bran Stark

We see great things in their future, then they get hurt, can’t use their legs, and just watch things happen.

-Coggin

Domonic Brown as Brother Ray

Big Ian McShane fan right here, dating back to his days on the criminally underrated Deadwood.

Similar to Dom Brown, I had high hopes for Brother Ray, but then he was killed off after something like three scenes and that was pretty much it.

-Kinkead

Kendall Jenner as Cersei Lannister

They are the queens, whether we want to accept it or not.

-Kinkead, h/t Investor Jeff

Howie Roseman as Jon Snow

Both were forsaken/murdered by their own men, but found their way back to the top. Jon became Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch and Lord of Winterfell. Howie Roseman reclaimed his general manager gig and constructed the team that won Philadelphia its first Super Bowl. Take that, Chip Kelly and Olly.

-Kinkead

Sam Hinkie as Ned Stark

Both men tried to steer the kingdom in the right direction.

Then they were betrayed from within and replaced with puppet leaders.

-Kinkead

Anti-Hinkie people as the Sons of the Harpy

They just did not like how the new leader was doing things. They preferred the old methods.

-Kinkead

(photo credit: HBO)

Eagles fans as the Dothraki

Uncouth barbarian hordes who throw batteries, boo injured players, and mistreat North Dakota radio hosts. They make crude jokes and show a lack of patience.

-Kinkead

Flyers fans as the Wildlings

We have to guard our borders from these Delaware County savages.

-Kinkead

Boban Marjanovic as Wun Wun the Giant

A couple of fan-favorite front court players. One can dunk without leaving the ground and the other smashed down Winterfell’s gate to end The Battle of the Bastards.

-Kinkead

Gritty as Tormund Giantsbane

Two more fan-favorite characters with great personalities and orange hair.

-Kinkead

(photo credit: USA Today Sports/HBO)

The Eagles’ offensive line as Hodor

Protecting the more vulnerable folks out there, whether they’re quarterbacks or omniscient cripples.

-Kinkead

Dario Saric as Khal Drogo

You might’ve thought, “Hmm… Dario Saric… Daario Naharis?” No, you fool. Dario Saric, just like Khal Drogo, is a revered and feared warrior from another continent who is never going to cross the sea. If he did, he’d likely get attacked by warriors with better lateral quickness.

-Russ

Phil Martelli as Ser Barristan Selmy

He served admirably for many years, then he was ousted by his superiors and didn’t take it very well.

-Kinkead

Andrew Bynum as the entire Dorne storyline

Just two terrible experiences overall.

-Kinkead

(photo credit: Sixers/HBO)

T.J. McConnell as Tyrion Lannister

Full disclosure: I have only watched two scenes from this entire show’s run. I watched the Red Wedding. And I watched the Viper get killed by the Mountain for no good reason. Anyway, this comparison is a little bit on the nose, but so what? TJ is kind of a mascot on the Sixers and in the NBA. He’s not really good enough to be in the league, but no one has told him to go away, so here he is. That’s sort of where we are with Peter Dinklage’s character. What can he really do among all this gore and violence and evil? For obvious physical reasons, he’s not much use. Because I don’t watch the show, I don’t care what happens to Tyrion Lannister. But I imagine TJ will be out of the league soon, and if that’s what happens to Tyrion on GOT, that’s fine with me.

-Phil

Andy Reid as Mance Rayder

Well liked by their followers, they were so close to getting the job done. They just couldn’t get over the hump and their lieutenants took over instead.

-Kinkead

El Wingador as The Hound

They will eat every fucking chicken in here.

-Kinkead

CrossingBroad.com as The Citadel

Endless sources of knowledge, wisdom, and sometimes satire.

-Kinkead

Chip Kelly as Euron Greyjoy

Chip Kelly came from a land that was mocked and looked down upon in NFL circles. He ran a gimmicky offense while crowning himself with a cute visor while chasing a duck. He looked like a fool. However, upon entering the NFL, his team began to take the league by storm.

“Build me a thousand ships and I shall give you the world!”

Then, much like Euron’s GQ model entrance to season 7, Chip arrived boldly, having cast aside his enemy Howie Roseman, practically cut out the tongues of his players (no one could criticize him), hunted down DeSean Jackson and Shady McCoy, handed them over to be locked in the Washington and Buffalo dungeons and watch one another decompose. Also like Euron in Season 7, when confronted with the reality that his players hated him and the league had learned his system, he fled.

-Russ

Alshon Jeffery as Daario Naharis

Both sell swords brought in to teams on the rise but not at their peaks on “prove it” deals. Alshon proved it in the playoffs and the Super Bowl while playing with a torn rotator cuff, Daario proved it by killing all of his colleagues for the Mother of Dragons.

Same thing.

-Coggin

DeSean Jackson as Jorah Mormont

They never asked to leave. They were exiled, then returned.

-somebody in Slack, can’t recall

Ray Didinger as Ser Davos Seaworth, the Onion Night

I haven’t found a person who dislikes either of these guys.

-Kinkead

(via NBC Sports Philadelphia/HBO)

Ben Simmons as Grey Worm

Neither has a lot to say. They’re more about action than words. And they’re dating high profile women in Kendall Jenner and Missandei.

-Kinkead

Angelo Cataldi as Lord Petyr Baelish, aka Littlefinger

They created legions of followers just by saying a bunch of shit. Everybody else can see through the mirage, but you begrudgingly tip your hat to their expertise in the art of self-preservation.

-Kinkead

Howard Eskin as Lord Varys

Both worked their way up from the bottom to hold court with some big names. No one is really sure what they do exactly at this point, what their end game is, or why anyone trusts them. Varys and Eskin both make bold fashion statements even though neither has the balls to back them.

-Craig

Bryan Colangelo as Jaqen H’ghar, The Faceless Man

You just didn’t know if you could trust him.

-someone in Slack

Barbara Bottini as The Waif

Minor female characters who ended up becoming universally disliked. Both just had a huge chip on their shoulder, for whatever reason.

-Kinkead

Dallas Cowboy fans who live in this region as King Joffrey

Just totally repulsive and vile. Ridiculous individuals with no redeeming qualities.

-Kinkead

Jason Peters as Beric Dondarrion

Every time you think he’s dead, he returns to life.

-Kinkead

Mo’Ne Davis as Lyanna Mormont of Bear Island

Small but formidable, these ladies came out of nowhere to become popular figures.

-Kinkead

Nick Foles as Podrick Payne

A couple of crowd favorites with legendary private parts.

-Kinkead/Coggin

Agent Raymond Brothers as Mirri Maz Duur

Both suggested alternative medical treatments for their respective clients.

-Kinkead

Bronn as Bryce Harper

A sell sword who used to be a bad guy. Then we ended up becoming the highest bidder, so he’s one of ours and everybody loves him.

-Kinkead

The Phillie Phanatic as the Night King

No one knows who or what they really are.

-Kinkead

Any member of the 1993 Phillies as King Robert Baratheon

A lot of drinking and whoring going on here. *Allegedly.*

-Kinkead

Carli Lloyd as Daenerys Targaryen

A world cup winner and a possible world conqueror.

-Kinkead

Elena Delle Donne as Brienne of Tarth

A couple of tall blondes who have found much success in their respective crafts.

-Kinkead

Jerry Colangelo as Olenna Tyrell

Tried to insert her less than bright relative into a position of power and it got everyone killed.

-someone in Slack

(photo credit: USA Today Sports/HBO)

That’s it. That’s the story. Thanks for reading.

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