#and now im dealing with a bit of an art block
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pechaberriesandsoju · 1 year ago
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Fuck not again
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be-good-to-bugs · 2 years ago
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2022
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soularsss · 4 months ago
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Drawing Likeness: with Tem!
okaay since a few people actually showed interest in me sharing a bit of what I've been doing to figure out how to really capture likeness, specifically Temuera Morrison, I figured id do my best to write it out
I am also going to entice you with some of my recent clone art! (oooh some of it is unreleaaasedd)
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I am putting the whole thing under the cut because I have a feeling its going to be long:
Read more!!!
a couple disclaimers before we start
-This is not some definite post about how everyone should be drawing clones, nor is it in any way claiming that this is the right way. This is just my musings as I stare at a mans face for way too long and try to replicate it
-I am inexperienced. As kind as you all are to me, drawing real people is relatively new to me, capturing a persons identity through their features is difficult for anybody, and I am no different. I have watched many a video on likeness and had my share of classes, but If im being honest, i rarely put it into practice successfully. So there'll probably be errors in this post or things i will come back to in a few months and wish I had said/done differently
ANYWAYs you guys get my vibe im just here to ramble and today we are rambling about mr copy paste. I am doing this for Law, my clone boy, because I plan on delving further into oc fanart and I want to put effort into representing him correctly!
SO LETS BEGIN
Before even deciding what specific pose of a person I want to draw, I tend to grab a bunch of references and compile them like so
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(all of these can be found on my pinterest)
Why so many? Well, we are about to delve into facial features, so when we are dealing with photos we have to take into account that there are an abundance of circumstances that will influence how a persons face will appear, some of these include:
focal length: All of these are taken on different devices, and focal length can play a big part in distorting faces
age will play a part, your face changes a bunch throughout your life!
lighting, while not as major, can muddy the waters and make it difficult to interpret facial planes and features
SO, to make sure we get a proper grasp of what's really going on, I like to make sure we have lots of options to compare and contrast with.
Next up! What I like to do is block out the main facial features with colour on different layers, the features I block out usually are the general face shape, eyebrows, eyes, nose and lips. But what you are looking for is the defining features of a person, so that could include other things! Maybe a scar, or some particularly prominent cheekbones.
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I dont have any rhyme or reason when it comes to picking my colours, all that matters is you can see all the shapes clearly.
Now I may be biased, because Ive been staring at these for 4 hours, but notice how it still looks like Tem? :D
Anyways, now we can break these parts down, and you'll see what I mean about compare and contrast:
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We'll start with isolating the facial shape, putting all these next to eachother you'll notice they arent exactly the same (partly because of my shoddy work) But the distinguishing features run through each shape! Namely the very soft rectangular shape I sketched out in the bottom right there. Along with his soft, wide jaw structure.
I did the same for the rest of his features!
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You'll notice I highlight the prominent shapes and ratios,
When drawing anything, it is important to start from the very base shapes and build up.
When drawing something you want to look like someone, those shapes relative to other shapes is what makes it look like them.
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I didnt use the same technique with his eyes and lips, but I wrote out some helpful info for them! More importantly for his eyes.
When drawing eyes, I find the most important part is where exactly I draw the creases, (along with the overall shape of the eye itself) it is important to understand where those will present themselves with hooded eyes.
NOW, with an understanding of his facial features in place, lets take a detour to colours:
before I start, a couple things to note:
-Temuera morrison versus the clone troopers in the animated shows:
While I love the animated shows they don't exactly stay close to their source material. Im going to link here to an excellent post discussing whitewashing specifically in relation to the clones.
Temuera is Māori, of Te Arawa (Ngāti Whakaue) and Tainui (Ngāti Maniapoto, Ngāti Rarua) whakapapa, and also has Scottish and Irish ancestry.
The Māori people are the indigenous Polynesian people of mainland New Zealand (Aotearoa). Māori originated with settlers from East Polynesia. Māori people often vary in skin tone, Skin colour doesn't determine ethnicity. There's often a correlation but it's not a requirement.
But that is a tangent! What we are aiming for is to stay true to Temuera.
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Bringing back my reference photos from before, Ive colour picked a buncha values and theyre all over the place. Why doesnt this work?
Similarly to earlier, you have to take into account the photos themselves. Many things like lighting, colour grading (when it comes to filmography) and makeup, can alter how a skin colour presents in photo.
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You can attempt to get true to life by swatching from certain places on the face. Here I've tried to pick some photos with good lighting, and I've also tried to avoid overly lit/shaded areas.
Tem has a very warm, tan skin tone, Instead of colour picking I tend to try and replicate it myself, but I do often bring in references to make sure Im staying true to the source!
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a brief intermission to talk about colour theory, something I myself struggle with alot. Often, when putting in flat colours without a background, I will forget to make sure the colours i intend to use will work with the skin tone i have picked! (something that is apparent in older works of mine, not just in relation to clones, but in general, the colours I end up with stray largely from their original sources and it is something I am doing my best to keep in mind and improve in! Although I don't think i am nearly experienced enough in the topic to say I have succeeded yet lol.)
anyways back to Tem :))
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Now we can put all of that into practice! Things to keep in mind when drawing out a piece next to a reference like this:
the distance between the eyebrows? how far down his face does his nose go? Basically just, in relation to eachother, where do all those shapes we found earlier, sit?
The screenshot above is from before I did it myself, but instead of directly tracing from the reference, a handy trick I use it to complete your sketch first, and then overlay a traced version to see where your inconsistencies are! Alternatively, you could move your sketch over the image, but I didnt do it that way so!! uh!! im sure it works exactly the same!!!!
When it comes to a final illustration, or any sketch that isnt a direct study, of course you can push and pull and stylise! You'll see below that I'm not exactly 1:1 to my reference photo either.
The important thing with stylisation, or at least my own personal understanding of stylisation is that you need to thoroughly understand the thing you are stylizing! "You need to know the rules to break them" and all that. While shapes, lines and rendering can change, when it comes to drawing someone, and making it look like them, you have to make sure to keep their core features true to source. Caricature can capture a persons vibe whilst drastically exaggerating features, but it will only look like them if you KEEP THOSE FEATURES!!!! SHAPES!!! AHHH!!
But that is just my perspective on the discussion of style versus realism, please dont take is as Law, I dont know what Im on about half the time!!
anyways, after fixing your sketch, add local colours!
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I rexified him because why tf not! But this is where you can go crazy with that clone personalization!
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And then here is a very very barely rendered version (if you guys want me to explain how i RENDER that would need to be a completely different post, and I havent had anyone ask about it yet so who knows! maybe one day) But I digress, hopefully you learnt something new through my ramblings! It has certainly helped me organize my thoughts and I have also found some areas I would like to focus more on in the future to improve my own art!
TLDR: In order to understand an object, be it a face or a building or literally anything, you have to break it down to its simplest forms, understanding LARGER shapes will help you immensely in the long run
If you guys like this sorta content do let me know! I'd be down to do similar things for armor/anything really, I am very anti gatekeep so really anything at all you want to know! Send me an ask :))
also if you see a spelling mistake.. i don’t know how that got there
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akirathedramaqueen · 3 months ago
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There's one piece of concept art that made me see the entire Apology Tour disaster in a different light.
So, we've been talking with @warblogs17282 about Stolitz and how their break-up ended up playing out in the 'Apology Tour' episode.
Why ended up? Well, there's a collection of concept art which, to my limited understanding of this craft, is one of the first steps in the production process of animation. This post by @birdy-babe includes a great chunk of it, shared by artists after the episodes aired (like storyboards, but much more stylised, showing how different some original ideas were). Long story short, one of the concept arts from the 'Apology Tour' episode suggests their quarrel was originally meant to be much harsher.
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A short summary of the concept art to see what we are dealing with
In the background, you see a lot of apology postcards and silly cutesy stationery, suggesting Blitzø is in the middle of his Apology Tour.
The contact name isn't 'Stols' but 'Bird Dick,' implying their relationship is at an earlier stage, with less respect—at least on Blitzø's part.
There's a photo partially cut by the edge of the messages screen. From the signature gloves and boots, cowboy hat covering Blitzø's private parts, and visible nipples, it appears to be a nude image—replaced in later stages of development with stupid gay affirmation memes (as hard as it is to believe, I couldn't imagine there could be anything worse than the Striker horse gay jokes... well, it could, my dudes, it fucking COULD).
There are three messages, one of which is unsent:
"Stolas, cum awwwwwwn, u no u want it :)"—likely attached to the nude;
"Dude just talk to me"—desperation crawls in; he finally realises the shit has hit the fan;
"Im sowwy :("—an apology, but the text remains unsent, perhaps because it seems pointless, given that the 'Not Delivered' notifications and warning signs indicate Stolas has blocked his number.
Why do I find this fascinating, and why does it fill me with immense hope?
Because they still fucking care so much, and neither has completely closed the door on the other. By comparing the concept art to the final product, you can see how many intentional choices were made in dialogue, visuals, and behaviour to make it clear that these two idiots still want things to continue. Stolitz is meant to fucking live.
Now, if you want to see some comparisons—evidence, really—let's dive into each other's changes, focusing on what we can gather from the concept art.
Blitzø's side
Change 1—thank gods, no nudes. The gay memes are sillier and a bit lighter. Of course, they still showcase utter disrespect, a horrible prejudice against sexuality, and a poor understanding of how deeply Stolas was hurt, but I find them... less bad.
Change 2—no more 'Bird Dick.' Blitzø has actually come up with a real nickname for Stolas! Feelings are boring for you, huh, Blitzø? I can almost hear the song’s lines: "O-oh, hooked, addicted you might say, conflicted in a way…"
Change 3—Blitzø's attempts to apologize now show much more contemplation. Since Stolas hasn’t blocked him, Blitzø knows his words aren’t just being thrown into the void. Although the 'unsent' detail remains, it now carries real weight and impact.
All three changes are seen in these two GIFs.
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He knows he did wrong. He knows he wants to salvage it. He might not yet know how to do it healthily, but he tries—he tries so fucking hard!
Look at the range of raw, cutting emotions as he speaks to Stolas and finally delivers his apology—probably the only one he genuinely meant. Well, maybe except for Verosika, a bit later.
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It's not that it's hard for Blitzø to say 'sorry'—we've seen him do it a lot lately. He's actually quick to apologise and take responsibility, so Stolas's remark about him not feeling any remorse couldn’t be further from the truth. But the fact that he isn't running away this time—chasing after Stolas and trying his best to mend things—is drastically different from how he treated Verosika back then.
Stolas's side
Here’s the moment that struck me deep. It’s the only change, since the concept art shows Blitzø’s POV, but it’s such a significant one.
Do you think Stolas has moved on? Do you think he’s done with Blitzø? Not convinced, even when he’s literally singing about still wanting Blitzø?
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Well, here’s your proof—he didn’t block Blitzø. They scrapped that.
More than that, the entire interaction emphasizes that Stolas isn’t pushing Blitzø away for good.
How do I know this? Stolas is very insistent on using phrases like 'for now,' 'right now,' and 'now' throughout his attempts to tell Blitzø off.
Here are some citations:
"I was hoping my lack of 'ha-ha's' in response to the photos you sent me would be an indicator I didn't want to talk right now."
"Seeing you right now is hard!"
"I'm tired of this! I'm uncomfortable with how you're speaking to me now!"
Why is this so important? Because he isn’t asking Blitzø to leave him forever. All he’s asking for is time.
Even while hurt, Stolas gives Blitzø plenty of chances to explain himself civilly. Look at the hopeful glances each time Blitzø shows any glimpse of genuineness.
Stolas fucking hopes Blitzø will take back all the cruel things said and brash actions done.
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You know, Stolas... I've spent the entirety of this morning listening to love ballads, and that was...
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For what?! You want me to be like, "Oh sorry, this entire time I assumed the worst because I was convinced a prince could never love someone like me and I've let my self-hatred stop me from apologising to anyone I could ever care about!"
You see the furrowed brows and the sad look? Stolas hopes for the best... but gets the worst because Blitzø isn’t there yet.
I’d even go so far as to say Stolas is acutely aware that Blitzø uses his brashness as a shield to protect himself. He literally sang about it in 'Just Look My Way.'
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Unless it's me? And no matter what in this world I could give, it's not enough to get through these walls you've conjured up to live.
So, what gives?
Is this the behaviour of people who want to give up on a relationship they still clearly hold dear?
No. Even when they’re angry, aggressive, hurt, or drunk, they still seek understanding and forgiveness. They continue to listen and try.
They might lack the skills and may choose the wrong time, place, or words to express what truly matters...
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One person, scared of being rejected so much that he unconsciously conveys this message by saying, "You don’t have to stay here with me," and carrying it throughout the whole conversation...
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The other, coming to terms with his feelings, admits them, and his fears, a bit too late—when his romantic interest is too drunk to comprehend anything…
And in both cases—self-loathing, self-hatred, doubts, scars, trauma… and a lack of hope.
But there is hope. No, this is reassurance, my folks.
You know when it's hardest to stay in a relationship? When it’s hardest to come and say, "I am sorry," when it’s hardest to still love the person?
When you’re hurt. When they’ve hurt you.
And, despite that, you still come to them and still want to talk to them.
If this isn’t ironclad evidence that this is more than just a fling or a couple of fun sex dates, I don’t know what is.
And the 'Apology Tour' fucking proves it, rather than ruins it. It only strengthens the point. It’s easy to live in happiness, but it’s so hard to go through it while you’re in pain. When you see them doing that, you realise it means everything to them.
Stolitz is to live.
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drenched-in-sunlight · 4 months ago
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Can I just say how in love I am with the way you draw Marika? Like every art you post of her has my jaw dropping…you add such a beautiful layer of humanity to her with her dynamic expressions and poses—it’s so refreshing to see especially when so many fan arts of her needlessly sexualize her or dial her down to a one-dimensional stone-faced villain (which a villain she is—but she is still complex)
And I adore how you draw her partial nudity as something natural, meaning that you don’t draw her without a top for the sake of objectifying her,
Your art is overall so pleasant and colourful and fun to look at, and your takes of Marika’s character in your fanart is literally what made me more interested in who she is in-game.
Thank you for drawing her the way you do! (And for drawing Elden Ring fanart in general💕)
i've been letting this ask stewing in my inbox for a while because it makes me so emotional 🥲
if you look at how i drew Marika before anything in the DLC was announced, it did fall into the two categories you were talking about, because despite having a little more positive view on her than the rest of the fandom at the time, i still had no idea who she was as a person. and by that time i were more interested in Malenia, so even though i did try to envision how Marika was, it's a very distant and vague image. which is what i love about Elden Ring lore in general: we see Marika via how her children see her.
it was easy back then to conclude we'd never get her, and "mother" is a distant term that will always be overshadowed by "God", so i just went along with the general haha evil sexy girlboss thing that the fandom was doing. but then the DLC teaser dropped the another elusive (possibly firstborn) child of her, with a statue of her holding a baby in his boss room, she started to get more little quirks that's so human in my work (the small smile, the little lock of hair that curls gently) because for the first time, we see her through the eye of a son that evidently adores her, so she gets a bit more human, because someone views her with emotions that are not fear nor distance.
then the DLC drops, and it's not just through Messmer's eye (or the entirety of his being that carry so much of her love it weighs him down and twist into the most horrible curse in the end), it's through the eyes of her family that were no longer there at all. it's the jar innard enemy that huddled in a jar and clutched at a piece of raw meat, it's the Grandmother's gentle smile as she rest among a sea of flowers, it's the solitary minor erdtree that bathed the whole place in the kindness of gold, it's the Fire Knights and soldiers that clearly viewed her as Mother as much as she was God, it's Miquella throwing away his love and doubt because he didn't know how to deal with the revelation that his mother was once a fallible human just like the rest of them, it's Trina's entreaty that Godhood was just a cage that would kill him slowly, it's the final boss music with the female voice belting "Hail, Marika the Eternal" - in the place where she had to wade through a sea of flesh and blood, her family included, to ascend to Godhood. it's finally understanding that to her, Eternity is to live for all her loved ones that have fallen down.
and somehow, it all comes back to this portrait at the base game, right at the Roundtable Hold, of a woman with permanently lowered eyes.
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yeah i know after the DLC i've put on such a Messmer-style protective glasses for her, it shows very clearly in my art. now she could cry, looks sad, small smile, big smile, looks silly, looks cute, looks serious, her hair is pulled up in twenty different ways, she jokes and talks to animals and goes back to be just a simple young girl rolling around in the grass, blah blah... im drawing all these with eyes wide open. and i have no intention of stopping lol.
sometimes, things that already come alive will never go back to be a cardboard cutout anymore. if ppl don't like it, block me or whatever, in my space, i'll do that makes me happy. and im very glad that other ppl could find their own happiness and solace with my work too :) thank you for such a thoughtful and kind messages!
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zaptrap · 11 months ago
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Seeing that you've been here since 2012 is INSANE like you've witnessed it all huh. You've seen probably SO many weird and crazy things in this fandom like man that's so cool for you I feel...
ive def seen and participated in a lot of dumbass bullshit over the years LMAO. although notsomuch during the skybound-to-seabound era cuz i'd lost interest for a bit
Random shit I remember off the top of my head (plz feel free to fact-check):
deviantart era: (2012-2013)
that bright green ninjago ask meme
like, literally everybody making self-insert purple ninjas (sometimes orange, teal, or rainbow) and shipping them with their fav ninja
everyone making their own genderbends of the ninja. cole was almost always called nicole or colette lmao
people also naming their accounts (name)-the-ninja (or "teh-ninja", since this was 2012)
there's a non-zero probability that if you were in the fandom during the season 1 era, you're a furry now
naruto crossovers
half-snake ninja aus.........wonder who uh......who could've done that.....heheh (me) (that was my whole deal pre-nindroid!jay lmfao)
everyone posting like, doll-maker things they made of ninjago? especially dragon ones
(me) posting leaked screenshots of season 2 eps that i found on the lego wiki or smth lmao. this is also how i found out zane was a robot. i think i kept posting leaks when i moved to tumblr
legends of chima releasing and i thiiink it was supposed to be a ninjago replacement? like, legitimately? though a lot of people weren't happy about it. "furry gang drug wars" was a phrase used a lot lmfao.
tumblr era (2013-2016 for me) (may overlap with dA era)
everyone losing their minds over the shirtless ninja in ns2 lmfao
that one video of kirby marrow (rest in peace) saying cole was 14
that other vid of like, behind the scenes and it was the ninja's actors but like in-universe? it's where "cole bucket" comes from
also some behind the scenes vid with the actual voice actors lol
thinking back on this, im like 100% sure it was bullshit but when the end of rebooted aired, there was a rumor going around about fans being so upset over zane's death that they carved a snowflake on their stomachs. lots of people were freaking out lmfao
the rise and fall of "fucknoshittyninjagoOCs" (ashamed to say i heavily participated in harassing this blog even if i rlly didnt like the premise.........)
maypong
lots of tension with instagram cuz of all the art reposts. like. tons of reposts. i remember someone blocked me when i said to take something down but then unblocked me the same evening and apologized LOL so
roleplay twitter accounts (twitter was kinda not-as-a lot at the time)
nindroid!jay of course. its so old there was an update that was made in flash lmfao...
absolute fucking shitloads of AUs and headcanons. i dont think this has changed much but like. there were so many lmfao. entire threads
actually there's too many fucking AUs. im scrolling through my main blog and i cant fuckin find anything cuz ITS ALL THESE STUPID AU THREADS THEY AREN'T EVEN LIKE DEEP LMAO
ask-all-the-ninjagians
the absurd screenshot redraws i did. like they were super stupid lmfao. icr which blog they're on but they're on my comp still at least
ninjagians just. being a term used at all lmao
the ninjago fan-tournament during ns4. people would draw/write about their ocs doing whatever prompt was posted and then everyone came together to defeat a big bad snake man
tbh i started naturally losing interest during ns5, and then VERY QUICKLY dropped the show (and therefore fandom) when skybound came out lmao............... so i dont really remember a lot from this era and everything after
and now im back :D
i hope this is insightful! xD
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jqmalikhsgib · 5 months ago
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sea view
five
you were very irritated. you couldn’t believe that she has the audacity to comment on your sons post. after harry blocked kendall, along with her family, you’d blocked her from your socials as well. you just never let corbin know. in fact you and harry never told corbin who he’d had affairs with. it wasn’t like you kept the affair a secret.
corbin was old enough to know his dad wasn’t faithful in the past. part of him resented harry for it for a long time. he couldn’t believe his father would hurt him mother like that.
over time though, corbin forgave his dad. he made a mistake and got his shit together. harry made it up to them every single day, he’s still doing everything in his power to prove he’ll never make that mistake ever again.
you were currently on the phone with harry, crying. you were so sick of harry’s past trying to bite you in the ass when you’re trying to move on with your life.
“i know baby. it’s not much we can do though. i mean, we can get corbin to make his account private.” harry sighs.
“i want him to live life like a normal teenager, harry! he shouldn’t have to censor himself because one of your ex bitches are harassing us!”
“honey—”
“no, i know. im sorry. it’s not your fault.”
harry knew that wasn’t true. if he’d been a faithful husband to begin with, none of this would be happening. you wouldn’t be crying alone in your bedroom.
“it is though, baby. i fucked up! that’s gonna haunt me until the day that i die. i—fuck! if you want, i’ll talk to kendall,”
“absolutely not! i don’t want her anywhere near you or the kids. just—set up the meeting and i’ll show up. im gonna handle this once and for all.” you state angrily.
“baby, that’s not a good idea. listen, ill unblock her, text her myself, let her know stop fucking with my family, okay? no need to meet up with her or anything.”
you sigh.
“fine! but harry, i swear to god if she—”
“i know, honey. now, is my girl calmed down a little?”
“stop! you know i hate when you talk to me all sweet and cute after ive just been pissed off.”
“mhm, i know you like it thats for sure. how are the kids?”
“corbin and the girl he was dating broke up. he’s been a bit depressed.” you pout at the thought of your oldest experiencing his first heartbreak.
“is it bad that im kinda happy?”
“harry!”
“what?! im not happy he’s sad. im just relieved he’s not dating anymore. he has his whole life to date, angel. he should just be a kid for right now.”
“i think next year he’s gonna try out for soccer!”
“you mean football, baby.”
you playfully roll your eyes. “whatever you wanna call it, babe. im just worried he won’t do as good as he wants. he really wants to impress you.”
“he’s half english, love. it’s in his blood to be an amazing football player.
“promise you won’t make it a huge deal, harry? if he doesn’t get in he’ll think you’re disappointed in him if you show any sort of excitement.”
“i swear, baby. how’s my princess doing?”
“payton sorta got in trouble in art school for saying a not so nice word today.”
“no?! not my baby girl! she wouldn’t.”
“mhm, she did! apparently she asked her teacher what a dirty little slut meant.”
“what?! where did she,”
“where do you think, harry! when the teacher called she told me she heard it from our room one night. i was totally embarrassed.”
harry laughs loudly. he couldn’t believe his little girl over heard the two of you in the middle of sex. obviously a bit traumatic but, hilarious. he could only imagine what you looked like as the teacher tells you what happened.
“harry, it’s not funny! our seven year old daughter heard us having sex.”
“it’s your fault!”
“my fault?!”
“yes! i recall you being a brat. had to put you back in your place, baby.”
at this point the conversation shifted. you squeezed your thighs together, trying to create some type of friction.
“you can’t say shit like that when you’re gone. it’s not fair!”
“you know i love teasing you, baby. but i miss you too, love. you have no idea how many times ive got a hard on, on stage. it’s not easy hiding it either. with these outfits lloyd has me wearing, i can’t move around too much.”
“what song turns you on that much when you sing it?”
“baby, it’s not even the music. the energy i put out, i give the crowd a show. sometimes you just pop in my head and im gone! fuck, i miss the taste of you.”
you whine. “can’t wait until you’re home. then this problem will go away. i can finally get fucked properly. this vibrator isn’t doing me right, harry! it’s not big or thick enough!”
“need my cock that much, huh?”
“mhm.”
“promise you, baby. when i get home, im gonna fuck you like you need, yeah? gonna make up for all the time we lost, love.”
“promise?”
“one thousand percent.”
you smile at the thought. your youngest son interrupted you right after. you sigh before letting harry know you’ll call him later. you end the call before getting up and going to hayden’s room.
“hi, baby! what’s wrong?”
hayden sniffles as he lifts his arms out. you giggle before picking your son up. “you just want cuddles from, mommy, yeah? im here baby. i love you so much.” you begin to kiss his cheek as he giggles. “you love mamas kisses don’t you, baby!”
you kiss his cheek again as he attempts to clap his hands. “god, you’re the cutest six months old in the entire world! aren’t you, baby?!”
you set up a few toys on the floor and set him down so the two of you could play. you couldn’t wait for your other kids got home from the park and your husband came home from tour in a few more weeks.
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fishsinsareacknowledged · 5 months ago
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Greetings Traveler! I saw you reblog Moon from Security Breach art and I was wondering if you can maybe do some HCs about em :] Mayhaps some pre SB stuff?
Yeah was in the FNAF fandom back in the days, lord knows it's been far too long for me to remember my old FNAF acc.
Tw: im horny for robots aka him but also I divided it into parts so you can skip it ifyw.
Moon sometimes forgets his hat and gets called a baldie by the kids he has too take care of. Speaking of the kids he loves them sometimes the way a mother would but also sometimes in the way a older brother would.
Like sure he's going to take care of their daily needs and so and so but also that's sun's job. Unironically tells them to ask sun for anything just so he doesn't have to deal with it.
"Moon can I have a water bottle?"
Also moon: sees that his time is almost up, "go ask sun, little one. I am not well equipped enough to be waterproof."
They share the same components and literal body. Excuses excuses. Sun is also not waterproof but moreso than him because his rays block out the revealed spaces of moon's disk face.
Romantically?
Face plants and hugs. Also. Gives you his hat whenever he has to switch with sun for safe keeping. Trusts you with the location of his off switch if you ever need it. Especially since he's heard some of the other animatronics have been glitching out from viruses. They share a revealed communication system so that shouldn't be good.
He's usually touchy with you after the daycares been all cleaned up and he's been wiped down head to toe. Lord knows how dirty those kids are. But that doesn't mean he won't at least give you a quick head boop where he's sure the kids haven't touched whenever you come in. As much as he needs to keep it professional, he won't outright abandon you full on.
Cuddles you after work if you have time to stay or if you're staying over. Makes sure to walk you to the door every time and walk you in if he has the time. Some of the kids would call you Mrs moon :3.
Sexually?
He's a robot babe. Of course he can do it. Fucks you better with his fingers than anyone with a dick ever has. Sure he can't feel anything sexually nor does he ever want to but oh just the sight of you all splayed out and relaxed just for him is a memory he's preserving and making extra copies of in his hard drive.
Have you seen how big this man's fingers are? Yeah. Never pushes in hard enough to make you uncomfortable. Just a wince and he's pulling his punches. Doesn't mean he won't make you scream though. He's still going to try to make you feel great.
He makes sure his whole body is disinfected before and after he does anything with you. Doing intensive research on anything you need of him. Probably doesn't enjoy doing anything that could hurt you unless you explicitly ask for him. Pre virus ofc.
Post virus? Violent but never mean to you. Sure he's a bit rougher, much more careless with his touches now that he's no longer on children duty. Still somewhat gentle with you in the ways that he makes sure to stop at any major red flags. As in. Safewords. And he immediately stops as if he coded himself just for that.
Spends most of his time cuddling your exhausted body rather than actually wandering the franchise because he has cameras now. Also. Human body warm. Also because it's his coping method for the virus that's slowly making him go insane I mean what. :3
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averagetmntfan · 1 month ago
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a special thank you to my moots.
(TW: suicidal thoughts, ig?)
ahem- so as I have mentioned, today is my 1 year old this platform! I honestly cant believe it’s been this..long? A lot has happened, too. And honestly for the longest time, it wasn’t going well. Like- at all.
(rant continues under the cut:)
I’m don’t want anyone to feel sorry for me. Im doing much better than before, so it’s really not a big deal anymore. I’m just giving some brief context for my 2023- early 2024 school year.
so, I made this blog a couple days before the whole situation went down. Which I think I briefly mentioned on here.
so for a bit, I had felt very uh- isolated in my friend group. I had kinda always been the odd one out. We had different interests. Their sort of fun was hangin’ out, gossiping and what not. And I was into cartoons, and art. I never really told them, though. There were sorta judgy, and I was very insecure. Because they make fun of people. And I didn’t wanna end up by myself.
But anyways- usually, they’d all leave. And tell me to watch their stuff. And since I’m sort of a pushover irl, I didn’t really argue about it. But when I say all of them leave-? I meant all of them. All 4 of em. And it often did upset me.
also they’d talk to people I didn’t even know- which, okay yeah- but I couldn’t talk to them. I didn’t wanna get dirty looks. I’m not a very outgoing person. I like to think I keep to myself often.
So, Halloween comes around. And this stuff doesn’t end. And for a bit more context, one of my friends was getting super annoying by me. And I’m pretty sure she didn’t like me, like- at all. She easily got annoyed at me. And only me.
so she went to the Halloween dance- last block of the day
blah blah skip to after school and I text the group- “where are u guys?” None of them respond. So I search a lil bit, then head outside. Where- guess what? All of them were.
I asked “Why didn’t you answer the text?”
and my friends that gets annoyed at my easily said a snarky “my phone was off.” And was generally just being fucking bitch. And I use to be a big crybaby and stuff- and eventually grew out of it. But this- this sentence really upset me. I stormed off, avoiding all of them.
eventually I got on my bus and- well. Uh. Let my feelings out, if you will. I remember it very cleary, too. It was one of the most tears I had shed in a long time.
I get home, and the girl texts the gc, clamming I stormed off for “no reason” and I had enough. Saying smth “I obviously didnt storm off for no fucking reason”
a bit more of arguing keeps going, and a lot more sobs. It was one of the worst days I had ever had.
a few more days go by, and the situation gets worse. I avoid all of them, and hung out w/ a diff friend. I ranted/vent to her, telling her my friend was a Hippocrate for complaining about our other friends leaving, even tho she did the EXACT same fucking thing.
Which, was talking shit. So that wasn’t great and rlly bad of me. And I guess karma hit hard bc she texted me after school, saying I was talking shit abt her. Bc my friend was friends with her friends. So..awkward..
and really- the next day, it was over. I was free. But at what cost, really? I lost all my friends. Became an outcast, really. It was pathetic, now that I think about it.
for the rest of the year, I rarely spoke to them. And never talked to the other girl.
I spent most my time in the library, reading. And skipping out on eating. I was so unhappy. I don’t wanna say depressed but- very close.
it really made me hate who I was. It made me feel like a terrible person.
And that’s when I really did start using Tumblr more. It was sort of an escape, of mine. And god, I’m so glad I set up and account. I Met do many amazing and unique people one here.
This is sort of corny but, I really think this has helped me through a lot. Since a few months early I lost my privileges to tik tok, and discord. Which, yeah. Sucked.
but so many things had happened-! Joined a rp group, met a new online friend (which we are now very very close<3), found out about a LOT of facts, found other people who shared my interests!
so here we are, one year later.
it was really something. I’ve met so many wonderful people on here, man. Especially my moots. You guys know who you are. I’m not gonna tag you guys, but I’ll do a quick smth smth ig
FIRST OF- my first closest moots-!! Ghosty, cookie, Sleepy, Ally, And my Pooks, Ari. So many awesome things happened with these guys. A lot of funny moments, too. Lmao.
AND ALL MY RAMSHACKLE PEEPS- dew, anomaly, Schnozz, reboot, Bailey, lilac,- you guys are literally AWESOME UGH- I seriously enjoy every interaction I have with you guys. It genuinely makes me so happy
sorry this is super corny and stuff, I really wanted to make something meaningful for this. Thank you guys for being so amazing.<3
— jj
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softcitrus2345 · 1 year ago
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Hello! This may sound a bit weird, but do you have any advice or recommendations on getting into this niche? I've kind of been watching from afar on several blogs, and I really want to try and test the waters! But I'm not really sure how to go about it, and I'm super scared that I'll end up just talking to a brick wall, having my mutuals find out, or have people ridicule me :')
Thank you for any and all help - I love your art!! Been hanging around for a while now and the progress you've made is so cool
- Clueless Anon
Oh I totally getcha! That's not a weird question at all! /gen /pos
Starting out with this kinda thing is really difficult, I know from experience. It took me months to hype myself up enough to even create this blog, let alone start posting on it, and I had (and still kinda do) those same fears you expressed, they're all very valid but hopefully what I share can help a bit with making your experience more manageable :3
The information I'll share here consists of opinions based on my personal experience posting on this blog, and getting into the belly kink community in general
I'll break it up into steps from what I sorta did when I started out so it makes a bit more sense.
STRUCTURE YOUR BLOG - Make an introduction post with general information about what to expect from your blog, and some other information about yourself if you want to. I like to include a few other things like some of my hard boundaries and leave it as a PINNED POST so that anyone who comes across your account will see this information
BLOCK YOUR MUTUALS - I have the same exact fear of being "found out" by people im close to or just know outside of this space, so once you set up the bare essentials on your blog, look for your mutuals accounts and block them. If you think a mutual of yours might have a blog but you're not sure, ask them! (Something I did was I asked my mutuals to send me their blogs so I could check them out when in reality it was so I could do this exact thing) Don't see blocking as something inherently malicious or bad, it's just a protective measure and a way to curate your experience on the internet in a way that is comfortable for you!
INTERACT WITH YOUR FELLOW ARTISTS! - I know it may not seem like something super important, but interacting with other artists is a very good way to establish yourself in the community, reblogging, tagging and replying to posts you like with nice comments have the potential for others to check out your blog or interact with you as well! I got lucky enough that I found similar communities outside of Tumblr beforehand, but it's still an effective way to get yourself out there and seen!
START POSTING! - Besides my intro post, my first post was something that I wanted to curate in a way that would encourage conversation. I shared several of my ocs that I planned on posting here and some basic information about them, and opened up asks! It's always gonna be a pretty slow start, but as long as you put the time into your work and are passionate about what you want to share, people will find your stuff! It's hard sometimes, especially when comparing yourself to others is such a common thing for people to deal with (including myself sometimes) but everyone's gotta start somewhere!
Starting out anywhere is difficult in itself, but with things like this that are more sensitive subjects for people, I completely understand your uncertainty and nervousness about sharing this kind of content online. But as long as you're not hurting anyone or sharing harmful content, I don't see why people should be so stinky about others just trying to explore different parts of themselves and their interests.. Kinks shouldn't inherently be seen as something to be ashamed of just because someone doesn't understand it. I've been lucky enough to have close friends in this community who have helped me become more comfortable with myself and with sharing my chonky art, and I'm incredibly grateful for that.
I'm flattered you came to me for advice, I hope some of that can help you on your journey, and thank you for sticking around for so long, it means a lot to have your support ;;w;; 💖
I hope things go well for you! I'm cheering you on anon!!
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ye-oldroderich · 4 months ago
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Hi i saw a friend of mine do art of ur wiz ocs and kindly i wpuld love to hear more about them. Nonhuman ocs in wiz r so fun
OMG YAAAAAY i love talking about my ocs so bad ..... WAHH. prepare for a long yap sesh
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More art of them from last(?) year's art fight by my friend @mister-geuse <3 ily tutt
I love Insaf and Rund they're my little guys im so glad so many people like them too 😭 when i make ocs for media i like to try and explore things that help to flesh out the world more and wizzy has SO many nonhuman peoples and there's just so much you can do ... no shade to people with human ocs of course. but personally i like exploring different things with each character i make
Krokotopia is one of my favorite worlds because i'm old and i like lizard people. it isnt without criticism (LOTS of criticism) though. i dont think ive ever seen another mander oc before (although i havent looked *that* hard, theres probably some out there!) so they were my go-to when making an oc from that world.
Insaf loves history! especially the history of magic in her world. she's often frustrated after she comes to wizard city and the library doesn't have much information on krokotopia's history, let alone things about her culture or anything before the krok dynasties came to power. after being Alhazred's student, she finds Arthur Wethersfield's teaching suuuuper lackluster in comparison. she corrects things he says about Balance magic in her mind. Insaf would be an "um, actually" girl if she wasn't nerfed with a severe anxiety disorder LMAO
she's actually really easy to anger but is just so adept at bottling it that she never shows it. this girl wants to rage so badly. magic is her outlet. she's a bit of a wildcard during duels since shes small and unassuming but VERY quickly becomes very aggressive with lots of offensive spells. she got a broomstick when she moved to wizard city but sucks at riding it and is pretty embarrassed about it (her tail throws her off-balance). she also has a pet chameleon in her dorm! its name is Sheba.
Now for Rund. i love birds and dinosaurs and corvids so a raven was a must-have for me as an oc. also its fun to put your characters through the horrors (ie a cult) and Rund definitely gets the brunt of it lmao. i haven't really ever made a character dealing with amnesia because its such a cheap plot cliché and its never done accurately to how amnesia actually works as like. a nuerological condition. so with Rund i've been really researching how it actually works so that i can portray it well.
amnesia is still not very well understood because the brain is so silly and complicated but if i were to label her with something it'd be pure retrograde amnesia. after her head injury, she can't really remember much at all about herself, and isn't familiar with ravenscar or anyone there. she CAN remember how to use runes, though, and other "muscle-memory" things. after she's sent to wizard city to recover, she starts getting some memories back over time (mostly information she got while reading, and some personal details) but memories specifically retaining to the Coven are much harder for her to remember.
Rund is also autistic (both she and Insaf are) and has some other underlying conditions that were exacerbated by both her head injury and the traumatic stress she was under. she has both motor and vocal tics, and doesn't speak much outside of echoalia. she's very easily overwhelmed so she sticks to less crowded and quieter places, which are hard to find in wizard city ... its why she and insaf hang out by the death school LMAO. no one else is ever there.
Rund uses runestones instead of a spelldeck, just like a lot of people in Grizzleheim traditionally do. she likes to shake the bag and hear them clinking together. her mount is a Death Vortex, and i rationalize it as like ... her turning into a cloud to zip around (usually so she can get on top of something and perch up there). she likes having her hood up so she can block out stimuli. Rund knows people look at her differently, which is part of why she avoids most people. she doesn't really know how to feel about being sent to Ravenwood, but supposes its better than the alternative ... though she misses Grizzleheim's snow.
Rund and Insaf met when they were assigned partner on a death class project. neither of them really had friends before that at ravenwood. Insaf doesn't expect anything of Rund or judge her for things she can't control. Likewise, Rund doesn't judge Insaf for having "unsightly" feelings, and can relate to it. they both like yapping about magic and history, and take turns talking at eachother. they have library dates where they go and point out flaws in the literature (hater activity). they're their own best company.
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basement-buddy · 3 months ago
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did you ever run into art block when you first started posting art online? if so, do you have any advice for getting out of it? i recently decided to push through my anxiety and make an art account but found myself unable to draw anything because of how harsh of a critic i turned into thinking its not worth to post even trying to change my style bc my current one doesnt seem nice enough ( ;´ - `;) so im not able to motivate to draw at all these days ;;
I hit art block all of the time and I know this might not work for everyone, but honestly the only way I get through it is just by drawing whatever, even if it doesn’t meet my standards. Take this time to try some new things, learn some new stuff, draw whatever you want without pressure. Don’t worry about posting anything for a bit and just go head first into a bunch of new stuff. And don’t worry about it looking perfect or anything, or trying to meet your own standards or appease the critic inside you. I know that’s harder said than done, but if nothing is going to turn out how you want it right now, anyway, then why not just try something new?
This helps with your style dilemma, too, every few months I get upset about my artstyle, so I just do some studies or follow some anatomy tutorials, some nature drawing videos, get used to seeing something else on the paper in front of you, you know? If you go a while without seeing your style, when you finally get back to it, you can see less of the flaws. Or better yet, you’ve learned some new things that could help fix the things you don’t like about it.
Sometimes it also helps to look at my old art. The younger me would’ve done anything to draw how I am drawing now, and I’m sure it applies to you as well. You’re always improving no matter how much you’re not vibing with your work.
Most importantly, don’t put too much pressure on yourself! Creating something at all is wonderful. No matter how it turns out, you’ve done something most others just mourn not ever trying. I think it’s wonderful that you’ve created an art account, and I’m super happy that you want to share your art with the world, but don’t beat yourself up too hard. Don’t draw something with the intention to post, draw it for you! Back when I first started, I was nervous enough that I wouldn’t post things for upwards of half a year. I would sit on drawings because I was too shy to show them. If it helps, don’t post at all unless you absolutely want to. When you sit down to draw, don’t imagine the reactions, or other artists with other styles, imagine just what you want out of that particular drawing. I had to learn the hard way that posting should ALWAYS be an afterthought.
Sorry if this was rambly, I’m very very experienced with artblock and there’s just so many ways I’ve personally learned to deal with it that it’s hard to organize my thoughts properly. A lot of these are easier said than done, so just take it one step at a time, and remember that you’re doing awesome, that YOU’RE awesome, and no matter how you feel about it, your art is awesome, too! Take it at your own pace and be easy on yourself. ♥️
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whatlurksbean · 1 year ago
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Is there a particular chapter you'd like to redo ? Either in terms of art, or how it was written?
Im currently redoing the first chapter, to update the character designs.
If I had the time, I’d like to update a lot of the art, mostly just little updates because I feel like ive finally figured out how to draw cat muzzles and there are a lot of panels all the way through that look a bit wonky lol
But that’s the way of comicing! It is also fun to see the improvement as you read, so I’m not too worried ^^
As for writing, there is a scene I wish I had added in an earlier Thresher chapter, but didnt due to not having the energy to deal with the potential harassment. It would have have just been a little cute scene with Hake and Trout playing leader and hake declaring he’ll be the king, not understanding why it was preferable to him. It was all scripted and ready to go, i wasn’t in the best head space at the time though and I was already getting quite a bit of transphobic messages at the time despite how subtle hakes transness was. Making up for that now with future scenes, fuck subtlety, the block button is freeing
And I’m sure there are other bits Id rewrite here and there, but they don’t pop out to me atm
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baby--b4t · 5 months ago
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Been a while since u posted, u ok? :3c
Hey everyone! Its been a hot minute since Ive posted anything. Life has gotten pretty busy for me even after school ended, so heres a little update on me!
The biggest news I have is that I finally got a job! Im very excited about it (mainly because Ill be making my own money now), but that does leave me with less time to make my bots and such. I know I said that I would hopefully be making more over summer break :[
The next news I have is that Im starting to get over the writers/art block that Ive been trying to deal with :D I feel more excited about drawing and have been thinking about my bots more often (in a good way!). Hopefully I can manage to push myself a bit more so I can get some done <3
However, I think I may be changing what characters I will make. I know Ive mentioned multiple times that I would prefer to make bots of characters I already have done, but I think Im going to stick to that now. Im planning on reorganizing my requests before I open them back up. Ill most likely have a character selection that people can pick from. The idea of trying to write the base for a new character has been very overwhelming to me. Whenever I do add a new character onto the form I will make sure to announce it here so everyone will know :]
If you made it this far, then thank you for being so patient with me <3 Being able to read some of your guys responses to them has made me tear up a couple time /pos. Ill do my best to get another bot batch out soon :] I promise I see everyones requests.
Make sure youre taking care of yourself, big or little
(ALSO I MADE A DNI BANNER FINALLY!!!)
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quathxr · 15 days ago
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STFU ART BLOCK IM WINNING
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All OCs and i really wanna info dump… it’ll be under the cut lmao
Okok so. All these characters are from the same story/world. And I just DSKAL;FJDIKAS;RFJHIDSA;JNHFKDLSA;JFKD I love them with all of my heart. They are my children. 
I waaaas gonna info dump about every individual character, but they all have ref sheets… so I’ll post those and info dump about that there.
BUT OH THE LORE. 
The main premise of the story is learning to accept our mental issues and moving towards healing. A lot of the concepts are pulled from IFS therapy, which has been my saving grace when dealing with my own mental health struggles.
Neo Pérez (bottom left), our main character, struggles with chronic depression and is not in a good place mentally. He hates wasting time and wants to find a “quick fix” for himself. After several failed attempts, he ends up at a weird Voodoo-magic shop. The lady insides gives him a drink in a bottle (which Neo later realizes is an opened Gatoraid bottle with the labeling ripped off (magic ‘aint cheap, ok)) and tells him to take small sips and wait for the magic.
Later, after the Gatoraid discovery, Neo angrily downs the entire bottle. The potion was intended to allow him to face bits of himself one or two at a time and work through his problems at an… accelerated pace. But by downing the whole thing, he creates chaos and the bits of his soul scatter. Neo now has to go and collect the pieces of himself and get them to (willingly) come back. And if he doesn’t, he will lose his memories, personality, etc :D 
His roommate Kip (top left)–who totally isnt in love with him, wdym–jumps up to help and recruits Astra (bottom right) and Olive (top right). Astra and Olive are dating and I love them.
ANYWAYS its still very much a wip. But I love them with all of my heart. They actually started out as a cute lil college romcom and….. Uh it spiraled lmao.
If people want more details, I’ll happily give! And I’m prolly gonna make a masterpost with all the info, art, and characters… eventually :3
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localgardenweed · 8 months ago
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Ok I was originally gonna write how I wanna go back to Eddsworld and do stuff for it again but felt out of the loop with the modern fandom and shit but ended up being a rant about how I hate Beyond so like gonna write this again but keeping part of the rant cause i need to share how much i cant stand Beyond again
So like I wanna come back to Eddsworld cause as much as it was a dumpster fire for me it was my first real fandom I was apart of online so it holds a place in my heart. I mean probably technically whatever I did on Framecast was my first ever online fandom space but shhhh that dont count i was but a wondering traveler looking for my place in the world. It actually got me into Eddsworld someone made a animation to Youth by Daughter and had me hooked. But still was very important to me and my art development.
Its so crazy to me cause i was into Eddsworld HARD in the 2016-2020 era where alot of the ig modern fandom was born i watched cities fall and crumble I was deep in the amino trenches, Pork Sodaing and seeing so much historical fandom events happen before your eyes. I was watching everyone consume every piece of Prince of Mints and Moho art I was a sucker for them which probably wasn’t okay for like a 5th grader but i definitely turned out all right /j.
I left for a little bit on and off cause Hetalia was choking me and like keeping me prisoner but like it still had a place in my heart for it but like ya know i still was there but idk now I just dont find the same spark anymore from the first go around. Something changed and maybe cause i just had my tastes change and maybe cause my ex-best friend was making fun of my oc all the time but i made him when i was like 11 and figuring out identities and ways to express yourself without sticking to the gender norms and dealing with alot of stuff at the time i finally caved and just didn’t feel the same any anymore about the show.
Cause I loved that fandom more than anything but, I don’t know I just don’t know how to get back that spark and go frolic in the fields with my TomTordOc love triangle of my 5th grader dreams and just be cringe and free and feel joy again but I just cant enjoy the material anymore like THEY ARE MASSACRING MY BOYS WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO THEMM
It doesn’t hit the same and i know i dont need to consume Beyond i doubt anyone actually does at this point but i cant stand beside while they murder everything i loved about the Classic and Legacy eras.
Also just, I think I hit a road block with it too like, I got stuck on where to do and what to do with Eddsworld like. I make aus i made ocs i made a ask blog i made animatics, now what? And like idk i felt weird and like stuck in the mud with them. Also just had the friend falling out who was also the co-creator of the ask blog so now i dont know how to pick it back up all by myself again but them again i really was just doing it by myself all the time anyway so i just have to figure out how to get back into the swing of things
I have some ideas for aus and maybe just finally be free and bring my oc back from the grave for realsies and make you all consume it but, I don’t know. Im scared to come back cause also weirdly alot of the new fans are younger than me or the older fans are older than me so its kinda awkward, also im just awkward im scared to talk to people online, there is and were some people i desperately wanted to be friends with both in and out of Eddsworld but im too scared and either just watch from afar or abuse the Anonymous function in ask boxes. 
If i cave enough i might come back to Eddsworld to at least finish my lore for the ask blog cause IM SORRY I LEFT YALL HANGING I HAD SCHOOL AND THEN JUST FORGOT ABOUT IT but forever haunted by the people who like every single post and then i get excited cause i see like 99+ notes waiting for me and i think one of my new posts blew up but no its just the ew boys who screw around likes and reblog and the occasional comment
One day ill return to my rightful birthplace and one day I shall be free and one with nature and draw as much as I want for it and as many ocs i want without someone telling me its cringe or make more for the ask blog or hell start doing animation and animatics again
Ok here is the Beyond rant now if you wanna read it
I feel the difference between Beyond and Legacy is that, Beyond is trying to horriblycopy their older brothers Classic and Legacy and almost dumb it down a bit with more childish humor, and Legacy takes inspiration from Classic: It’s different but a natural difference/evolution. Or the fact a whole new guy was writing it all with a slightly different style so he wrote what he knew idk maybe a bit of a factor idk
Also i cant stand the Tord bait sorry I cant, especially when they used to like get annoyed by the fandom by asking and then just realized he was a cash cow so like now we get Tord merch and the hints and Tori and the skit with the cavemen like OMG TORD- and he got crushed by a rock thanks gang, cause like dude I think as much as we love Tord like maybe this go around respect Larson’s choice to like not use him in the series anymore and take him out but like ig that doesn’t apply to merch so yeah lets do one more go around bring out the red one. Or idk maybe they contacted him and was like “yo dude can we like use him for merch” but i dont think that happened. I think it was just better to leave him absent from the show and be like “yeah no Tord guys, no Tord” and we could have all had our thumbs up and be like “Ok Eddsworld Beyond we are okay with that”. Like I know Red October was for charity but idk it still felt weird to use Tord, like could this really not have just been the main 3 or like bring in some deep cut old characters or side characters did we really need Tord here.
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