#and more extended sequences

[duskgryphon]

oh i haven't mentioned it on here yet but i've finally started on a brc animation i've been thinking about for a while

[wojtekaneko]

Get bonked silly librarian man

[leadmetothegardenbetty]

fuck it, some more Dinner in America BTS

[cloudbatcave]

@rissahs

My bad, I should’ve clarified I meant after the crash; before it, yeah, I totally get why that wasn’t prevented. But after it Jimmy got away with being shit for so long!!

LMFAO well that’s certainly an accurate reading that’s for sure.

[aidenwaites]

You know I wouldve watched a whole series just about Ekko

[unproduciblesmackdown]

still rotating lsoh in that way of like well it's fun it works well enough where like you know at every turn whatever's happening is supported by Some element coming through as the strength of such material & like the basis of like, you can forget [jrr tolkien voice] the Applicability of the plant when the foundation underneath that is "plant that eats people. would that be fucked up or what" like does it have to be human (i guess) does it have to be mine (i guess not) the answer is if a plant ate people would that be fucked up or what?

the great nexus provided where it's like of course the one "correct" interpretation of The Story here doesn't exist & neither does "here's the way to Present an experience that will be perfect & perfectly interpreted by everyone ever" but it's also Rich Text time enough to have a great time analyzing the workings & results & musing on re- or deconstructions forever. as a "never seen a stage version, only seen the theatrical release movie" i'm like yeah i would blow this whole building up Myself if they die noooo :( no you can't do that and i think it's great that like the full situation is us all having such Multiple versions and that when it's a movie everyone is like well you can't do that. the theory about the difference in medium between stage production & movie for an audience experience, i definitely buy that as a factor. i'm not gonna resolve this in this text post lmao like i'm going "i mean the theatrical ending Also Works, which feels conclusive in its own right, & the issue to me seems like, you know, they're simultaneously standing in for Any/Everyone but just like Any/Everyone they're actually specific people still. if they're not sympathetic then it could be seen as diminishing [don't feed the plants] to [don't do whatever makes them less sympathetic] like rip to your employee but i'm different, i would have done the perfect blood bank heist every other day & done the perfect marketing & then done the perfect plant killing move after doing the perfect planning to know i'd definitely been set for life & making the perfect decision to not let it go on another day & how about another etc"....that no matter how sympathetic you are (and you are, i'd blow this whole building up) don't feed the plants then huh

but. it's a story. we can have different versions and that that's the case even within the [same book] Stage situation, within that no two performances of the same production are The Same, that people sitting in different seats at the same show will have different experiences, notice / focus on different details, have different interpretations because they're different people....i can assume if i'd seen a stage version first i'd go "oh interesting" at the happier ending in the film rather than be like no Noooo the other way around lmfao. again that like, you still get the message. uh oh audrey could've died. uh oh seymour could('ve) die(d) & this plant is malicious & never gonna stop & very hard to kill, we can extrapolate. uh oh is the danger present for anyone? for you? we get it either way so i can't reluctantly give it up lmao. like i get "uh oh the plant even ate them, and You" actually acted out sure can be seen as having more emphasis & clarity. But like also never any absolutes like oh if they live it diminishes that, Maybe in some interpretations, maybe as a matter of preference....but, again, the Tradeoffs coming through. we lose like that emphasis for the rewards of Character. no Metaphor of the plants is ever really gonna shake out, but the tradeoff is always "would that be fucked up or what" and scifi fun.

like, pacing, also just like as ever can't even really declare One Thing for all, for ever, that makes a work a Tragedy, much less the Definitively Successful one or anything. is it tragedy because of tone. because people died. because anything bad enough happened that wasn't undone. because it was "serious" in tone And being "about" something someone deems worth expression / exploration. but always shakespeare problem plays and where does greek tragedy come from & what did it mean & that obviously comedy isn't like there's no consequences, no "substance" or "seriousness" or whatever other supposed metric of Worth by whomever gets to judge that. comedy requiring a level of questioning / analyzing Everything (technically it doesn't, if you do like "comedy is when Some people / things are laughable" which idc about that. Encompassing context / framework or else) and in that there's more room for things that otherwise might be presented as that matter of "tone" defining whether something is "serious." like there's Nothing Unrealistic about from the start it just being matter of fact everyday stuff that audrey's getting beat up but that doesn't make it not "serious" unless the world ground to a halt & everyone else around her fell to their knees. the most serious shit including indeed interpersonal abuse goes on all the time as everyday matter of fact stuff just like that, world still turning, nobody falling to their knees or else it's not that big a deal. again like suppertime sequence is just really ominous lmao like yeah it Would be fucked up if a giant sentient plant ate a person. the horrors of being matter in flux are endless but like "isn't this fucked up" gore or whatever is really never the kind of Vision Of Violence that comes across as half as unpleasantly disturbing as the shit that happens quickly and without much detailed fanfare in my experience/opinion, & this is a bit like that. just spending some time in suspense knowing this plant is gonna eat a guy and then it does, yikes. likewise saying it's memorable like he sure does look like plant food to me, just a what like whole ten second sequence of silhouetted abuse that is perfectly harrowing because we experience audrey's harrowment.

going on a tangent But Not Really and i welcome it, whaddaya gonna do. it's still also more about "these are characters in a story and not Real People but art imitating life style we think of them in the framework as though they're real people. they could be anyone and so could real people, but also, just as with real people, they are specific people" but that like also We're The Audience. we don't have to imagine any particular character or their experiences / pov as "what if this one was me / vice versa" but we also never have to Be these characters b/c we not only Aren't, but they exist to us only As Presented, unlike real people, who exist outside our observation, awareness, assessment. like, real violence happening that isn't only made real by someone outside it standing there Observing, much less necessarily realizing what's going on, nor following it around as it affects someone day to day. the issue of like ""showing"" us in media that someone's been abused. if we see it In Process, it's Not That Bad unless it's supposedly "that bad" all at once, in say like, simply a scene, perhaps merely several, perhaps one episode or movie, etc: and in thusly being "convincing" to an Audience, the reaction can be like "well, obviously it's That Bad. so why would this person put up with it" and the idea that it's the victim's responsibility actually can be accepted, like, since it's so clearly Intolerable, beyond the pale, must be something wrong with Them for tolerating it, if only they'd get it together enough to stand up for themself once & for all. never mind that, yknow, who cares about that, would they deserve this anyways & gosh why is it never about focusing on the people treating them this way. anyways like its leading to "well, couldn't be me" washing your hands of it as you wanted to do anyways. handy if you're presented with Whatever like "oh it's not even that bad anyways" too of course. all versus like, forget what seems "intolerable" like how about "can you escape it. what do you risk happening to you if you try." like people's reactions to Real images of like, someone taking a casual everyday pic of a living situation & it's got a lack of polish that's just like, ordinary Being Poor type of deal. mentioning any detail that's pretty ordinarily a part of that, no matter how they feel about it, and then the way people can have a big reaction like it's perhaps absurd to them in a way inspiring shock, perplexment, rejection/disdain. vs like supposed "oh no, being poor" living situations In Media like, it's either presented as Shocking, the realm of the [omg couldn't be me] consummate Other, or hey, just Not That Bad (i.e. not particularly realistic, just like....maybe shown as less spacious & Interior Designed into relatively sparse detail) like nice just something to vicariously go "how Great (perhaps Of Me, in surely innately being this person who Could Never. i'd never put up with that) that that's so Not Me" like okay, dead end. what if it's not some inviolately Other lower class of inferior Not As Much Of A Person As You people who don't know better or have better taste or better self respect or better moxie or etcccc. then it would ask you not to dehumanize and also it wouldn't end in the realm of Individual Choice as the ultimate / only truly relevant context for "when abuse happens is that fucked up or what"

anyways we can bring it all back to lsoh specifically like it's great they're not like "hope to god nobody's Relating to like, orin, say" like it's not presenting us like well even before you start feeding plants, just don't be jerks, for one. hard to go "rip to your granpa but i'm different" about the applicability focus if we don't go "it'd never apply to Me or otherwise just like, generally" b/c they're up to unsympathetic business. which, also, sidebar, of course i'm not even going "wow, the lesson is Never Murder." like yeah let's kill orin even without the plant, oh well whatever at mr. mushnik lmfao. that also like a whole big thing i think is that lsoh has this clarity about everyone's Broader Situations existing in a context where their individual choices aren't enough to save them from Tragedy, or let them Escape whatever's already shit. like, uh oh, you're already fucked. you don't have family? family's not reliable social support, perhaps including not Not being detrimental / extractive / violent in its own right? well, guess you're fucked. seymour's stuck with this Parent and we see the [your child is your property] there, oh well for him i guess. audrey as A Woman is like well your escape is into being [your wife is your property] and what if he's terrible, oh well, just leave, and do what, and risking what violence to prevent that escape? rewarded with what when you don't have money? both of them having jobs that obviously aren't enough, we aren't presented like "if only they'd been Hardworking enough, or perhaps Savvy enough to be Smartworking" like that'd have Saved them. we Do get like, oh hey, We could be a social unit (i.e., married) lol and it's like well that's a) an option if you want to at all & the genders are deemed proper & b) like well alright lmfao seymour's your friend, great, like that again it doesn't even matter much if it occurred to them like lavender marriage, it's all for the Economic considerations. nor does this really upend the broader context like yeah whew their options are still Limited thusly. this relates right into like yeah get our rod serling Or Is It? ending with Move Into A House type happier ending, but it's also like, of Course there's still limits to what they could do then or at any point, and we'd kind of have to "break out" to have it be anything But some version of like, "yeah nice now we can afford to not live on the street, definitely." which we can do, feasibly lol, just in a way that i think would be less readily conveyed as "okay they'll be fine enough now, we prommy, probably, or will they???" so [yep, that's a Conclusion] for the purposes of a film

when like it goes back to the Inciting Incident, like, well, what are seymour or audrey gonna do out here otherwise? they're in this context where we understand their only escape is [have money] and they're doing that how they can, with jobs, and a guy who'll let them live inside shelter. from this point like i guess they can become revolutionaries but there wouldn't be a "if there was a big plant that talks and eats people would that be fucked up or what" plotline. they can't even go "hey, what if We got married! we could both live somewhere with a roof & walls & not be awful to each other" without more money, probably, and probably without still killing orin (i think this is a great what if lmao. no plant, yes murder). and like then there's consumerism like you have to be told that everything wrong with your life and everything that can possibly be right can be resolved through purchase, audrey ii is advertising for a business, and i mean, stays that [increasing demand, increasing sales] until it's like uhh. quick foray into "actually now there's this [As A Famous Person] interlude where the celebrity is themself not a person but a Product, and in this case likewise now kind of framed as potential advertising for Other products as audrey ii remains for the flower shop until the Cuttings As Product twist" and like even at that point it's like, metaphorically [wow audrey ii is a product] doesn't exactly hold up, [audrey ii is consumerism] is Right There like literal consumption for one lmao and i hardly think like "oh it's not a perfect fit? throw it out" applies here when No metaphor is that, and again like, we do have literal consumerism, audrey framing her ideal life as available for sale to her via magazines, clear [hm, socioeconomics] framing like hm they sure Do just need money or they're fucked, this plant keeps trying to fuck them, illustration of a shift of contextual power from sexual solicitation to aggression (but it was aggressive the whole time also just as it was also the whole time a threateningly giant sentient plant demanding human flesh)

anyways also consumerism like [increasing consumption of goods is always desirable] relevant like ah Infinite Growth you say? that you can go "it's like 'why would vampires want more vampires when that's a dead end lol of someone who stops producing blood' / 'vampires would just run out of humans'" but when it's also like, well haha, irl Application style, wow why would people adopt a practice of "uh oh lol, This isn't sustainable and there'll always be some crash. well not my problem" like yeah audrey ii & clones taking over the world Infinite Growth would hit a wall lmao but doesn't mean uh oh it's not Now breaking through the wall eating Me, in the audience....and you can see the application to like, any Relationship between anyone & anything that apparently requires Infinite Growth, only ever More, only ever a one way process of Extraction for unilateral benefit. and also it's always like, major overlap with the Consumerism but still also a bit different: audrey ii like Commodification. it's just a strange & interesting little venus flytrap, until it's indirectly commodified at least as Business Advertisement, making the other plants into successful commodities. (also shoutout to that one guy. i can see the theory now like he was a plant of the plants to make sure audrey ii would be valuable and nourished. wouldn't change anything at all like, sure, or no, it's Style and Humor, he's a stock Some Guy & it's comedy, nobody's """normal""", unquestioned unexamined "normality" doesn't exist here thank fuck.) but you know, it's like, oh you like botany? well you'd better figure out a way to get rich from that, right. oh you're a Woman, you'd better figure out how to Be the commodity to an extra degree beyond the wage laborer, All domestic work has to be done for free or as close to it as possible, vs paid a bit more for a "job" proper, with the precarities still increasing / decreasing according to different systems of creating classes.

(such as like, see "what about the vampires as like origins in what vulnerable Othered parties are seen as infiltrators that corrupt / kill?" and that class necessarily exists in the socioeconomic context of lsoh, we don't get suburbs without Selling them like "ugh you know the poorer not white and even black people in cities? what if you could access the cities without having to live amongst them, share any resources, as though Equals" and you can try some like libertarian white supremacist analysis like don't feed the plants? white man's burden and eugenics and it's white people struggling for Control that will keep black people out and not killing you and etc. naturally any metaphor falls apart, in what we see there's no particular separation of seymour &/or audrey as inherently other from those poorer than them (although like having poorer people's existence as a "this could be you" ""threat"" requires emphasizing the perspective that, for now, you are Not them) and they're not posited as threatened by proximity / mutual access / equivalency to nonwhite / black people around them, we can infer that Racism Time as an interpretation is not Intended lol but analysis never has to end with inferred or expressed intent, and little concepts like Classes of race, gender, owner vs property, etc aren't Neutral where they're relevant, such as in not just a story set in any twentieth century US city, but Any story say, produced From a perspective that invokes that as Known, any story experienced where we as audience Know of these contexts. all the "normality" of every ideology alleging someone in a group you are impermeably separated from has to stay Other in their systemic subjugation or else everything you have (your elevated status in this very context) will be destroyed, everyone being taught said ideologies, it's not simply "normal" unless & until someone does intentionally explicitly invoke "it's racism time" & racism all over the place, ah, a simple Fiction, unless someone is a woman without explaining why, perhaps openly queer, disabled, nonchristian, nonwhite? why'd you have to make it political. we can just Say like, i suppose this extraterrestrial plant is doing some colonialism. easy. indeed it is some Other, here for infinite growth, eating people like would that be fucked up or what, voiced by a black man, watch this maneuver: even disabled in the context of being effectively a person once introduced as such. everything we can consider when presented with an invading incontrovertible malicious Other, which is Much. rich texts, hooray

but back to the commodification point. you love botany, how can you monetize it? so that it can save you, by way of money, b/c how else can you be saved? also makes me think of [audrey ii as some form of what would be considered Art]. that for art to bring the theoretical Individual Creator Artist Responsible power in the form of money &/or status, for it to be thusly vauable art, the artist has to draw (as in, extract) from their life, from Themself, put themself into it, literally in this case. then potentially have to turn to what access they have to Other people as sources of what made that Successful. but uh oh how do you keep that going forever, when you only have access to so much, when the success / exposure / demand changes everything that made it possible to quietly feed some blood to a weird little plant in a basement in the first place, much less has the Life Of Its Own and is too big for one person / escapes containment in that way. not to say in the least like ah indeed i believe in True Art(tm) and the status of true Artist(tm) or some extrapolation like wow uhh you start with a Woman as your Muse & have a cute little plant & give it a Little blood of course, that's fine, just stop there i guess or you might end up with Mass Media and that's awful....our culture and your kitcsh, our technique and your crafts, our "the 'ideal' (true) artist not worrying about making money off of it" vs "the uncouth impoverished that Does make 'art' for money (or entertainment, the Masses, any other randos, vs the true arbiters & appreciators as selected audience) and if they come up with anything good it was on accident really and we'll just be taking that thank you. ironically. for now" like i also don't think the metaphor goes oh so far here But. the idea that "good" art that'll be valued & bring money, status, Save You, has to have like your blood put into it, You and Your life, or start looking to other people around you whose lives overlap with yours also....could read further into it from that lens, but again really just like Commodification more generally, seymour's personal passion for botany that is thus far outside the flower shop but now he can finally make it be Useful in that it'll bring in money, gotta point to That same as audrey dreaming of products she can Own as concomitant with her ideal life as [pointing to Consumerism]. infinite growth, what if the pyramid scheme never stops, [the ride never ends I Want To Get Off Eternal Damnation post] etc etc

uh well anyways bring it WAY back around, i'm not agreeing to "tragedy is when you go Oh No" like well sometimes it's tragedy and i Don't lmao. sometimes i go Oh No and it's not tragedy. and of course there's no consensus like ah decisively both defined & bounded Genre, format, even medium. i can't relinquish like "b/c i'd go Oh No even harder if they died, i'm [dying ending only] now" lmao ofc i know no one demands picking one or certainly i wouldn't respect such demands nor comply. it's the power of "this is a story and it can be told different ways" like, we can Get the same points even when they don't. it's not like "oh, consumerism can go on forever just fine then" when a) we get a rod serling Or Can It? too anyways and b) we also know and always know these are, in theory, and Would Be in practice if we understand the context of [as if this was Real Life], specific people, not Everybody, now & forever. audrey ii is the pyramid scheme infinite growth inherently unilateral extraction violence consuming capitalism? like well we all feed the plants at all. we can't draw a line Anywhere, such as: when is the financial success too much? the Process of putting the personal into a product form too personally costly for you or anyone? back to like "no you can't control this, yes this will always corrupt & consume no matter who you are or your intentions and sympatheticness or whatever" like then the Metaphor / Applicability being universal, like, even You, aaah it's getting You in the audienceeee is like yep i get that Strength of that [everyone dies. You die] ending lmao. but the strength of They're Specific People [handshake] they live, you live, but still watch out, still, it's not over ending. like you know that other person in reality? that's you, extremely important, however it's also not you, just as extremely important. this tale of these specific people, like, their escape from situations including [interpersonal abuse, we don't need to See one big show of supposedly intolerable, outward suffering; whose life is constrained, who has the power, who can't escape], well they're fucked if they don't have money, so there's only so much [you Failed the cautionary tale so bad you gotta die] like, if they don't, if they only have So Much success and then wanna back out, and then realize like ohh right it's not gonna stop on its own & will also Worsen....like okay lol. how much Difference in "uh oh audrey could've been mortally wounded i guess, good thing she wasn't. Not Today" or "seymour's gotta try to kill it, so he does try. and he succeed. Today, In Fact" like yknow he could try to kill it from the inside and get eaten and we're like aaaa and Then the plant explodes b/c well, he did it, was willing to risk it after realizing the situation, same as we get in the happier theatrical ending. ("theatrical" having some ambiguity...musical theatre....i mean the film though lol)

like that it Can't be conclusive re: some theoretical perfect combination of intention, execution, interpretation. it Is this story. they Are [anyone] they Are [my specific friend seymour. i'll kill for him too] like it's more emphatic a Concept to have whatever worst case scenario, most permanent loss, vs that like, prefer the Practical instead: how much could they do? how much can you do? when it is also constrained by: they have to do the things that facilitate there being a giant talking alien plant that eats people and would that be fucked up or what? when like rather if there was no plant, i think a heist with these two zany besties where the heist is murdering orin and perhaps like ah sorry you do also know too much mr. mushnik is like, well you know that story could happen with these two characters and their personalities and be so much fun. audrey would walk in on that ax murder and start helping. the Medium Difference idk like yeah i'll help them kill whoever, i'll kill that plant, that it's also fiction and magic so of course we can't go "alas....isn't that always the way, it Has to be" like no he could blow it up. no he could kill it from the inside anyways. The Power Of Fiction, always gonna be living that "they both live or i blow the building up" life lol. while simultaneously like i even theoretically get it like no yeah of course they die, is someone else's primary Story ending. while this doesn't change my like No you can't kill them. when because it is a story and not something that actually happened and we're just able to be thinking about Meaning and Effects from something that only exists as a way of communicating an idea of Meaning and Effects like of course it's a multiple choice multiple answers deal, and having multiple versions spices that up

which also. that again like when it is not real life. difficult to pick something of more Impact / Significance than mortality, & Dying as [difficult to think of a more significant Mortality Moment], but like, again in juxtaposing art vs real life like Real death not happening Only to have "meaning" besides that uh oh everyone's mortal and someone just died, in fact. while we don't read meaning into things Only if someone dies for real, even when of course that tends to be interpreted as having import. art imitating life like, of course "don't do this. they did it and died" having impact that perhaps "don't do this. they survived though" doesn't, is gonna be an Interpretation. but there's of course never gonna be actual rules. like oh Always kill them in a cautionary tale. someone like "Wrong never have an actual other being in the cave horror. the cave is one's self, the scariest journey of all" like well i disagree. here we are where to get Us eaten by the plant we have the protagonists eaten by the plant, vs that they'd better not be, while it's not about us. separation from [that is a movie] vs [on stage in front of me? yes, i'm already a part of this] yeah sure maybe i dunno. being closer up? the plant can intrude on the audience like fall from the ceiling and change joe iconis's life but like, a Movie sequence of a plant outgrowing a city and world and even also implicitly fourth wall breaking like, that's not my business. the stakes weren't really raised there in an unbroken sequence from our heroes' demises playing Directly into a finale dropped in the audience's laps that way. i don't know. and what were they gonna do, am i right? i'll kill this vine. hang on besties....like you did make them my friends. we can go "no don't kill them, because of the concepts" and we can go "no don't kill them, because of the concepts, and also they're my friends," truly, while having grasped the [because of the concepts] either way

anyways, amidst the power of [there's no Conclusivity here. yaaay conclusivity as not even the Goal in the first place] whew like how much blood have i put into this one? none. but also addendums. i forgot to musically mention that somewhere that's green opening with that "i know seymour's the greatest...but i'm dating a semi...sadist..." like holy shit lmao superlative right there. addendum that take it way back to the beginning like "so they're fucked if they Don't successfully get more money. or end capitalism" like they go lihn mode. but who says they don't? in this story? already, they Do, the endings aren't that different even as of course it Is that different saying the pretend people's pretend actions in a pretend situation killed them, or didn't. happy ending Or Is It? it's a tuesday like haha oh come here look at this, shaking my head. killing the little plant and hitting the road, the airwaves, with [knife emoji We're Coming For You invasive plant (that eats people)] goals. anything could happen. and it's not that big a deal if they Then just did make money and happen to have more choice in their lives, like, that was the context all along lmao. and, again, if we just kill some mfs ordinary style. seymour as "aw jeez" about it but ya gotta do what you gotta do. which is relevant to like, i also hardly think like oh no it's about the slippery slope of murder. not even once. just say no. & your divine retribution will be eaten by plant, otherwise. he do kinda gotta do, sure, yeah, it's not very meaningful like "i think he could've talked it out & had orin see the light" nor "if i was seymour i would've ingeniously generated flower shop business in the wisest way, free of cost. economics" or otherwise rip but i'm different i would've gotten money in a non feed the plant way, i would've gotten complete control of my life without getting more money, ha ha....take the risk like well gotta try to kill this plant, oh wait, i did, happy ending, maybe there's more out there, dealing with them forever / at any time? sure, maybe! ask musical be more chill all about it.

i had another addendum but while not irrelevant it's also like, truly a whole tangent & maybe i don't have the wherewithal for it at this juncture. so instead yknow tl;dr much to wrestle with like as art imitating life like nobody's "doomed" like the characters died because you had that happen. in reality there were also reasons people died and there was a context that is only their "doom" if drawing a line and washing our hands of it. is a doom we supposedly share as an audience but feel more separated from in thee cinema more cathartic or whatever. whereas if our besties died without us it's like i'm blowing this whole building up, you can't make me was my hands of them and understand myself as Separate, Other, Couldn't Be Me? we may ask ourselves. and idk look at our little guys yknow it's like yeah you can't do this sorry. how do we do it with stage little guys? i don't know, having experienced such neither First nor Ever. tragic deaths, you only don't actually care, or it's like, hey. no. are they So Us that they're Too doomed by dying? idk but of course the success in being upset about it either way. failure is if i don't give a shit, don't have fun & be myself along the way

[zeetbl33p]

...damnit. Why did I end up getting attached to Citrus? Lhclhfo

[discordiansamba]

roleswap Keith literally cannot stop just building up vaguely terrifying reputations for himself. first it was was as mercenary on Earth. then it was as Champion in space. this is starting to become a bad habit!

[bahoreal]

ofmd s1 was character driven plot (the characters make choices, that drives the plot) s2 was plot driving the characters (the plot took precedence, the characters were reacting with not much time to develop as characters or make decisions) and imo, ofmd established itself as character driven plot kind of show and thats why it felt kind of bad and rushed, if they were given time (2 more episodes) i think they could have swung it the other way. there was a lot to put in and without sufficient time it just becomes The Plot Needs To Move

[s1ithers]

wondering now if it's worth starting up the da2 replay before bg3 drops. the glacial pace i play games at, i'm sure funger2 will keep me busy til then. but i miss my boy.......

[coffinsister]

Really love to see how differently the Spanish let's players react to the game

Either way it's so funny that the only ones who make a big deal of the siblings aspect is the English let's players

[aeide-thea]

[sexual assault mention, wheel of time spoilers]

two wot thoughts, neither of which i think is particularly spoilery, really, but just in case—

if you're going to compare moiraine losing her magic to rape—or at least, i assume that's what we're meant to understand by 'the most brutal form of assault'?—i feel like you should perhaps consider not then building on that analogy with language like 'remembering what you once were and what you'll never be again' and 'most women never recover' about it, js;

this show is overall better than the witcher, imo, but seems to be falling into the same trap of, like, 'let's have one million separate threads we jump between by dropping in on each one in medias res,' which like, maybe the problem is ultimately with me and my adhd psyche and not the storytelling, that's definitely possible, but it really feels like, okay, we're jumping between different storylines without necessarily making meaningful progress in any of them and also everything's so dark half the time you can't even see what little is happening???

[extemporaneousmusings]

16/3/24

Today I:

-opened the shop which is unusual for a Saturday and getting to clock off at noon and have the afternoon to my own devices felt great, if a bit disorienting...I tried to order a Sunday specific food at my fave bar for a late lunch and got laughed at for not knowing what day it was

-got two different multiballs on a single game of godzilla pinball

-finished reading my friend's dissertation! I'm gonna review some targeted sections and my notes tomorrow but the heavy lifting is over thank goodness

-didn't feel like doing 20 minutes of yoga like I have been doing before bed most days this past week, so I did 10 instead and that's absolutely better than nothing

[elvisqueso]

the struggle is real. i'm out here hunting down the director commentary track from pocahontas's laserdisc edition, specifically, bc the other two version were either only for the extended cut (and finding that is it's own battle) or were from the bluray release and who the fuck knows what they'll say in that after 20 years of hindsight.

i want the purity of someone who's JUST finished the project, the high of creation still humming in their veins, proud of their work and having no idea that what they'd just done was going to piss off SO many people. i want that. i want that innocence.

[demilypyro]

So I've seen a few too many people on twitter talking about The Kiss Scene from the new Scott Pilgrim anime. People saying it's fetishistic and indulgent, people calling it male gazey, etc. And while the kiss itself is certainly a bit exaggerated, I felt like writing a bit about why I disagree, and why context is important, like it always is. But it basically turned into an extended analysis on the metatextual treatment of Roxie Richter. So bear with me. It's a long post.

What really matters about this scene is not the kiss itself, but what precedes it. Not even just the fight scene just before it, but what precedes the whole anime series, really. And that's the Scott Pilgrim comic book, and the live action movie. Because in both, Roxie is a punchline.

She's a joke. Her character starts and ends with "one of the exes is actually a girl, I bet you didn't expect that." Jokes are made about Ramona's latent bisexuality, the movie especially treating it as funny and absurd, and her validity as a romantic interest is entirely written off by Ramona as being "just a phase." There's a fight scene, she's defeated by a man giving her an orgasm which implicitly calls her sexuality into question (come on), and the movie just moves on. It sucks. It really, really sucks.

The comic fares a little better. It never veers into outright homophobia like the movie does, and while the line about Ramona having gone through a phase remains, Roxie actually gets one over on Scott when Ramona briefly gets back with Roxie. But Roxie is still only barely a character. Like all the other evil exes, she's just a stepping stone towards the male protagonist's development. She barely even gets any screentime before she's defeated by Scott's "power of love." But Roxie stands out, since she's the only villain who is queer, or at least had been confirmed queer at that point (hi Todd). In a series that champions multiple gay men in the supporting cast, the single undeniable lesbian in the story is a villain. She's labeled as evil, made fun of, pushed aside in favor of the men, and then discarded. Her screentime was never about her, or her feelings for Ramona. It was about the straight, male protagonist needing to overcome her. And that was Roxie Richter. An unfortunate victim of the 2010s.

Fast forward to current year, and the new anime series is announced. Everybody sits down to watch the new series expecting another retelling of the same story, and.... hang on, that straight male protagonist I mentioned just died in the first episode. And now it's humanizing the villains from the original story. And there's Roxie, introduced alongside the other evil exes in the second episode, and she's being played entirely straight, without a punchline in sight. No jokes are made about her gender, no questions are made of her validity as one of Ramona's romantic interests. The narrative considers her important. In one episode, she already gets more respect than she did in either of the previous iterations of Scott Pilgrim. And this isn't even her focus episode yet... which happens to be the very next one.

The anime series goes to great lengths to flesh out the original story's villains and to have Ramona reconcile with them. And I don't think it's a coincidence that Roxie gets to go first. While Matthew Patel gets his development in episode 2, Roxie is the first to directly confront Ramona, now our main protagonist. This is notable too because it's the only time the exes are encountered out of order. Roxie is supposed to be number 4, but she's first in line, and later on you realize that she's the only one who's out of sequence. She's the one who sets the precedent for the villains being redeemed. She's the most important character for Ramona to reconcile with.

What follows is probably the most extensive, elaborate 1 on 1 fight scene in the whole show. Roxie fights like a wounded animal, her motions are desperate and pained. Ramona can only barely fight back against her onslaught. Different set-pieces fly by at breakneck speed as Roxie relentlessly lays her feelings at Ramona's feet through her attacks and her distraught shouts. And unlike the comic or the movie, Ramona acknowledges them, and sincerely apologizes. And the two end up just laying there, exhausted, reminiscing about when they were together.

Only after this, after all of this, does the kiss scene happen. Roxie has been vindicated, she has reconciled with the person who hurt her, the narrative has deemed that her anger is justified and has redeemed her character. And she gets her victory lap by making the nearest other hot girl question her heterosexuality, sharing a sloppy kiss with her as the music triumphantly crescendos.

It's... a little self-congratulatory, honestly. But it's good. It's redemption for a character who had been mistreated for over a decade. And she punctuates the moment by being very, very gay where everyone can see it, no men anywhere in sight. Because this is her moment. And then she leaves the plot, on her own accord this time, while humming the hampster dance. What a legend. How could anything be wrong with this.

[hayatheauthor]

The Anatomy of Punching a Character in the Face

Punching scenes are a staple of action sequences in many genres. Whether it’s an intense brawl, a quick defense, or an emotional outburst, a punch can carry a lot of weight both physically and narratively. As a writer, it’s essential to understand what really happens when a fist meets a face—from the immediate impact to the longer-lasting effects on both the person getting punched and the one throwing the punch.

This guide will help you craft authentic, detailed, and believable punch scenes by exploring different areas of the face, types of punches, and the aftermath of such an impact.

1. Target Areas of the Face and Their Vulnerabilities

A punch isn’t a one-size-fits-all situation. Depending on where the fist lands, the consequences will vary significantly. Different parts of the face have varying levels of vulnerability, and targeting these areas produces different effects, from knockouts to broken bones.

A. Jawline: The Knockout Zone

The jawline is a classic target in many fight scenes, especially when knockout punches are involved. This area is highly vulnerable because a hit here causes the head to snap to the side, leading to a sharp rotational movement of the brain inside the skull. This movement disrupts the brain’s communication and often results in a temporary loss of consciousness—what we commonly refer to as a "knockout."

Common Effects: Dislocation or fracture of the jaw, loss of consciousness, slurred speech, and severe pain.

Visual Aftermath: Swelling around the jawline, bruising, and possible misalignment of the jaw if broken.

B. Nose: Breaking and Bleeding

The nose is another vulnerable target, known for being easily broken. It’s not just a fragile bone structure, but it’s also connected to many blood vessels, meaning a direct punch to the nose often results in immediate bleeding. The nasal bone can fracture, causing difficulty in breathing, and in some cases, the nose may need surgical intervention to reset.

Common Effects: Intense pain, bleeding, difficulty breathing, potential for a broken nose.

Visual Aftermath: Blood running from the nostrils, swelling, and significant bruising around the nose and eyes.

C. Cheekbones (Zygomatic Bones): Bruising and Fractures

The cheekbones are one of the more solid structures in the face but are still susceptible to breaks, particularly from a heavy blow. Damage here can lead to not just bruising, but potentially severe injuries that can affect the entire facial structure.

Common Effects: Fractures of the zygomatic bone, swelling, bruising, and pain extending to the eye socket.

Visual Aftermath: Black eyes, noticeable swelling on one side of the face, and a sunken appearance if the bone is fractured.

D. Forehead: A Hard Target

The forehead is much harder than most parts of the face and is less vulnerable to severe damage. However, punches to the forehead can still cause pain, disorientation, and dazing of the recipient. While it’s less likely to result in a knockout, it’s effective in dazing an opponent, especially if the puncher’s goal is to create an opening for another strike.

Common Effects: Swelling, redness, and potential concussions if hit with enough force.

Visual Aftermath: Redness, minimal bruising, and a dazed expression.

E. Eyes: Black Eyes and Swelling

A punch to the eyes is particularly brutal because the area around the eyes is delicate, and the skin is thin. It’s not just about swelling but also potential damage to the orbital bones. The impact can cause "black eyes," characterized by intense bruising and swelling that may close the eye shut for days.

Common Effects: Swelling, black eyes, potential orbital bone fractures, temporary blurred vision.

Visual Aftermath: Discoloration that starts purple and turns yellowish-green as it heals, swollen shut eyes.

2. Types of Punches

Not all punches are created equal. The type of punch thrown can drastically change the outcome of the scene, both in terms of damage and realism. Understanding these different types of punches will allow you to convey more varied and dynamic fight sequences.

A. Jab: Speed and Precision

A jab is a quick, straight punch, usually thrown with the non-dominant hand. It’s not meant to be a knockout punch but more of a setup punch to create an opening or keep the opponent at a distance. Jabs are fast and can be disorienting, especially if they repeatedly land in quick succession.

Common Effects: Light bruising, potential cuts, and swelling in the area hit.

B. Cross: Power and Impact

The cross is a powerful, straight punch delivered with the dominant hand. It’s often aimed at vulnerable spots like the jaw or nose. Unlike a jab, the cross is meant to deliver a significant amount of force, and when landed properly, it can cause serious damage.

Common Effects: Knockouts, broken bones, severe swelling, and bruising.

C. Hook: Lateral Devastation

A hook is a wide, circular punch that targets the side of the head, particularly the jaw or temple. It’s one of the most powerful punches and is often used with the intent of knocking the opponent out.

Common Effects: Knockouts, severe disorientation, potential for concussions, and jaw dislocations.

D. Uppercut: Lifting from Below

The uppercut is thrown upward, usually aimed at the chin. It’s a devastating punch that can lift the opponent’s head and jolt their brain, leading to knockouts. Uppercuts are especially dangerous when they land cleanly on the jaw or chin.

Common Effects: Knockouts, broken teeth, jaw fractures, and disorientation.

E. Haymaker: Risky but Powerful

A haymaker is a wild, swinging punch delivered with as much force as possible. It’s often thrown with reckless abandon and is easy to dodge, but if it connects, it can deal significant damage. Because of its wide arc, it leaves the puncher exposed to counterattacks.

Common Effects: Knockouts, severe bruising, and possible fractures if landed correctly.

3. Punch Wounds: What They Look Like and Healing

Punches to the face leave lasting marks, some immediately visible and others taking days to fully form. Understanding the aftermath of a punch will help you describe the physical toll on your characters more accurately.

A. Immediate Effects

Swelling and Redness: Swelling can begin almost instantly, particularly in areas with soft tissue like the eyes and lips.

Bruising: Bruises start off as red, then turn purple, blue, and eventually fade into yellow or green as they heal.

Bleeding: Punches to the nose, lips, and even cheeks can result in bleeding, either from the skin breaking or from internal damage like a broken nose.

B. Long-Term Injuries

Black Eyes: Punches near the eyes can lead to bruising that darkens the skin around the eyes, giving it a purplish hue.

Fractures: Broken bones, such as the nose or jaw, may require weeks to heal, and in severe cases, surgery may be necessary.

Scarring: If the skin is cut open, there’s the potential for scarring, especially if stitches are required.

C. Healing Process

Bruises: These typically take about a week to two weeks to heal, with the colors shifting as the body absorbs the blood trapped under the skin.

Fractures: Healing from fractures can take several weeks to months, depending on the severity.

Swelling: Swelling can last anywhere from a few hours to a few days, with cold compresses helping to reduce it.

4. How the Punch Affects the Puncher

While we often focus on the person receiving the punch, it’s important to remember that throwing a punch can also take a toll on the puncher.

A. Physical Strain

Knuckle Damage: Hitting a hard surface, like a jaw or forehead, can cause damage to the puncher’s knuckles. This is known as a “boxer’s fracture,” where the small bones in the hand break due to impact.

Wrist Injury: If the punch is not aligned correctly, the wrist can absorb too much force, leading to sprains or breaks.

Fatigue: After multiple punches, especially in a drawn-out fight, the puncher can become fatigued, leading to less powerful or accurate strikes.

B. Emotional and Psychological Effects

Adrenaline Rush: For inexperienced fighters, throwing a punch can lead to an adrenaline surge, which can cause tunnel vision or reckless behavior.

Moral Conflict: If the puncher is not used to violence, they may experience guilt or shock at the damage they’ve caused, especially if the recipient is significantly injured.

5. Psychological Impact of Receiving a Punch

A punch to the face doesn’t only cause physical damage. For the recipient, it can have a lasting psychological effect, especially if the punch was unexpected or in a vulnerable situation. Writing this aspect adds depth to your characters and shows that a punch is more than just physical pain.

A. Shock and Fear

Fight or Flight Response: Getting punched can immediately trigger a fight-or-flight reaction. Some characters might freeze or retreat, especially if they’ve never been in a physical altercation before.

Loss of Confidence: For characters not used to violence, being punched in the face may cause a significant loss of confidence. They may question their own strength, bravery, or ability to defend themselves.

Increased Aggression: Alternatively, the punch may trigger a rage-fueled response, pushing the character into aggressive, reckless action.

B. Embarrassment and Humiliation

Public Fights: If the punch occurs in front of others, there’s often an added layer of humiliation. Characters might feel embarrassed, even if they weren’t at fault.

Internalizing the Event: The recipient of the punch may carry the emotional impact for a long time, replaying the event in their mind, feeling shame, or seeking revenge.

C. Post-Traumatic Stress

Lingering Anxiety: In extreme cases, receiving a punch can cause anxiety or even post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Characters who’ve experienced significant trauma might relive the event through flashbacks or become hyper-vigilant, avoiding confrontations in the future.

Fear of Future Confrontations: A character who’s been severely beaten might actively avoid scenarios where they could be hit again, making them overly cautious or paranoid.

6. Writing Tips: Making It Believable

Writing a punch scene isn't just about describing the physical action. To make the moment believable and impactful, you’ll need to consider various elements—from pacing and sensory details to character psychology and aftermath. Here’s how to make your punch scenes authentic:

A. Build Tension Before the Punch

Foreshadowing Conflict: Build up the tension before the punch is thrown. Is the character agitated? Are there verbal warnings or body language that suggests things are escalating? By slowly ramping up the tension, the eventual punch feels earned and inevitable.

Use Dialogue: A heated exchange of words can make a punch more meaningful. If the punch follows a particularly cutting remark or threat, it adds weight to the action.

B. Focus on Sensory Details

Physical Sensations: Describe not just the punch itself, but how it feels. Does the skin split? Does the puncher’s knuckles scrape against teeth or bone? Is there an immediate sting or delayed throbbing pain?

Sound: The sound of a punch can enhance the realism of the scene. A dull thud as a fist connects with soft tissue, the crack of a bone breaking, or the splatter of blood hitting the floor are all effective auditory details.

C. Show Immediate and Delayed Reactions

Physical Reaction: After being punched, characters rarely shake it off immediately. Staggering, falling, or momentarily losing their vision are realistic reactions. You can also show how the puncher feels—did their hand hurt from the impact?

Emotional Fallout: Punches are often emotional events. Show how your characters feel right after—whether it’s satisfaction, regret, or shock. The emotional weight of a punch can be just as impactful as the physical consequences.

D. Consider the Aftermath

Healing Process: Don’t forget that punches have a lasting impact. A black eye will take days to heal, and a broken nose could require medical attention. Characters might have to deal with soreness, swelling, or difficulty talking and eating.

Ongoing Tension: A punch can dramatically shift relationships. A once-trusting friendship could be shattered, or a bitter rivalry could be born. Make sure to carry the emotional weight of the punch forward in your story.

7. Common Misconceptions About Punching

Many writers fall into the trap of perpetuating unrealistic portrayals of punches. These misconceptions can make your scenes feel less authentic or overly cinematic. Here’s how to avoid them.

A. The Myth of the "Clean Knockout"

Reality: A punch to the jaw might cause a knockout, but it’s not always instant. In real life, knockouts are often messy and unpredictable. The recipient might stagger or struggle before finally losing consciousness, and they could wake up with serious concussions, memory loss, or nausea.

B. Punches Always Cause Immediate Bleeding

Reality: While a punch to the nose often causes immediate bleeding, not all punches result in visible blood. Even when skin splits, it might take a moment for blood to pool and become visible. Bruising and swelling often take hours to fully appear.

C. Punching Doesn’t Always Lead to a Win

Reality: Throwing a punch doesn’t guarantee victory. The puncher could hurt themselves, miss entirely, or end up escalating a fight they weren’t prepared for. Additionally, punches to the forehead or temple might not have the knockout effect portrayed in movies—they could just make the puncher’s hand hurt more than the opponent.

Looking For More Writing Tips And Tricks? 

Are you an author looking for writing tips and tricks to better your manuscript? Or do you want to learn about how to get a literary agent, get published and properly market your book? Consider checking out the rest of Quillology with Haya Sameer; a blog dedicated to writing and publishing tips for authors! While you’re at it, don’t forget to head over to my TikTok and Instagram profiles @hayatheauthor to learn more about my WIP and writing journey!