#and it's all from Tommy's POV during exile

[pixiemage]

If I do ever finish my DSMP/L'Manburg parody of American Pie (from Tommy's POV) would y'all wanna listen? Because god knows the lyrics have been rotating in my brain for months and after what I've heard about the finale, I think we need some quality content in the DSMP fandom

[appleflavoredkitkats]

let's talk abt c!fundy, as a whole:

i don't really know what i want the flow of this post to be. i don't really have any goals in mind, but i really, really, wanted to talk about c!fundy. i don't think i can intellectually cover his storyline arc by arc because, well, i don't actually think i'm capable of doing that in excruciating detail (especially for l'manberg and nlm) but. oh my god i need to talk about him. and my experience i had backing his character up ever since the pet wars.

takes about fundy as an underrated character only became popular around the time manberg ended. a big contributing factor to this is that dsmp recap and update accounts on tumblr and twt only started thriving by that time. so basically, a lot of pre-end of manberg stuff done by cc's who weren't tommy, wilbur, or quackity tended to be ignored, because nobody realized there were more pov’s to consider.

and tbh! as much as i was a bitter fan last 2020, i do want to acknowledge this isn't the fault of the fans. but of course this doesn't come without repercussions. a good portion of people only realized fundy was a spy for pogtopia only when he revealed it to wilbur. this comes as a surprise to me at that time because fundy confirmed as early as eret's election results stream that he was going to pretend to be a traitor.

but okay, that's well and settled. but i guess the bigger issue back then i grappled with a lot as a fundy fan was that many people described fundy's eventual reverence to schlatt and his “disownment” of wilbur to be out of nowhere or uncalled for. as someone who has paid attention to fundy to a tee ever since the pet wars, there is so much little things that occurred that built up fundy's dislike towards wilbur.

for one— wilbur's absence and belittlement of the pet war fiasco. although i'll give it that the pet wars is more of an exploration of fundy's character, especially as a friend to others, rather than something that proved wilbur's neglect. the elections was really where things start becoming finicky. from the mix of tommy saying fundy “would have been exiled from l'manberg if he weren't wilbur's son” (which caused him to create coconut2020) to him not siding with wilbur in the election debates, expressing his feelings of exclusion within l'manberg. there are so many moments, expressions of frustrations for how belittled he feels in the eyes of wilbur and tommy.

and, well, i think this is explored very uniquely in manberg, but in a more subtle way. yes we know about the disowning and the charged exchanges he and wilbur had, but i think that. his relationship with schlatt is one of the more undervalued things about manberg. we know about all the rampant dadschlatt headcanons with tubbo, but oh my god, i need more people to see that it is literally canon that fundy saw schlatt as a father figure and schlatt viewed fundy as his son.

that dynamic is so unexplored. the way fundy first started as a traitor, then almost got caught by schlatt with schlatt telling him that. he hopes fundy can be someone he trusts to make manberg great. man to man. schlatt has continuously raised the ranks fundy had in manberg, makes him tag along in different events. fundy made the schlatt throne and the decorations for manberg.

fundy gave up being a spy because he thought schlatt respected him more than wilbur. then, schlatt killed some cats during the festival and blew it all. i think, on one hand, it's funny this is all it took. on the other, fundy has shown to have massive reverence for the pets that exist in this server. the pet war especially, where it's not only fungi who he avenged but beelloon and niki's fish and farm animals and his own endermen. he himself even couldn't kill skechers. he was upset in nlm when tubbo accidentally killed his fox.

and again, wilbur's absence during the pet wars spoke loudly to him, so when he sees wilbur in schlatt for the first time, he drops him.

there's also sort of a meta angle with fundy being sidelined as a character. i always mention this in my own posts, but yeah. i believe cc!fundy mentioned during manberg that it was hard playing a villain because his views plummeted. and i also find it interesting that cc!fundy didn't stream a lot of pivotal moments in the dsmp during nlm, like schlatt's funeral and the butcher army fiasco. he wasn't even present during the disc war finale.

i can never in my life assume whatever cc!fundy wanted for his character, but i remember, before las nevadas was announced, i came to terms with realizing that i cannot control whatever cc!fundy wanted with his character. if he wanted to step away from the dsmp then i supported it, because if he didn't find himself having fun doing all that, or he thinks not a lot of people liked his character despite his efforts, then i get it.

doomsday isn't my favorite fundy moment. it's subjective, and definitely a hot take among the fundy community, but to me letting go and breaking down felt like a low hanging fruit for him, because genuinely i didn't expect it. there's no build up to it. not in the neglect department, no, fundy definitely has been traumatized enough. but i feel like the manner in which this was expressed felt too angry to be in character— which, tbh, is bold of me to say because who am i to question cc!fundy's character decisions. but genuinely there wasn't a lot of streams in between that and other emotional beats to warrant a heavy breakdown like that.

ok, before i get skewered, what i'm saying is that i think doomsday tends to overshadow everything else fundy did because a lot of fans really wanted some kind of villain arc like that from him. and as cool as the “i want to make them cry” thing is, i don’t think fundy breaking down angrily like that and giving up on everything is representative of his entire character, especially when we see the larger picture with las nevadas and his reunion with wilbur.

fundy is emotional, but not angry. he gets angry at wilbur for almost leaving during their reunion, but he pleads immediately after. he yelps “what the fuck?” at quackity when quackity belittles his achievements, but he pleads “i don't know what to do” softly when quackity compares him to l'manberg fading away.

fundy's character hopes easily, gets attached easily, which is why his breakdown to me feels like a puzzle piece that doesn't fit. to be fair, i can't expect all things in the dsmp to be executed perfectly! and if it weren't for las nevadas, doomsday would've probably been the finale for fundy's storyline, and it makes more sense to view it that way.

but imma just say, thank the fuck it wasn't.

my most favorite thing about fundy would be his consistency, especially with what kind of baggage his character brings within every arc. i think the las nevadas episode that showcases how quackity manipulated him into joining establishes exactly what fundy’s character is in essence.

when quackity compared him to the fading buildings in l'manberg, we got it. we got the confirmation i wanted on what his character is supposed to be, and that is— principally and representatively, he is l'manberg. wilbur's definition of what l'manberg's supposed to be. originally, l'manberg prided itself on peaceful unity that didn't rely on minecraft pvp as a source of power, which is the complete antithesis of the entire cycle of violence we observe in the dsmp later on.

of course, wilbur lets go of these ideas being realistic after they win, then completely gives up mid-pogtopia arc, because to him, l'manberg is a manifestation of his ideologies succeeding. if it doesn't, then l'manberg is nothing. so what does it mean then, in this case, if l'manberg was something wilbur promised to fundy?

well. to me that means wilbur succeeded. fundy is l'manberg. let me explain.

fundy, like tubbo, was present in all iterations of l'manberg. he was close to every single president, usually one of their backups whenever an event occurs. this also happens with las nevadas. he becomes blindlessly devoted to someone if they give him a lick of attention, something wilbur never gave him, but more importantly, his presidents promised him safety and prosperity. when he and schlatt fought before schlatt died, fundy mentioned he sided with schlatt until he ruined plans with manberg.

this is why he also believed in nlm, in las nevadas. he believes in the upturn of cyclical violence in the dsmp, unconditionally and devotedly. he created flags for manberg and lnv, hell, even gogtopia, and he as a dutch also inspired l'manberg's flag. while i also don't think he fully embodies the idea of peace (he is a prankster after all), he definitely embodies how that pacifistic mindset is viewed or treated in the dsmp.

which explains how he dies, i suppose. he dies diving into the l'manberg crater, after cutting ties with wilbur. it's metaphorical in one way, and sad in the other. on one hand, it makes sense. if the embodiment of l'manberg and its principles cut its ties from wilbur, especially considering that the dsmp ends a few months later without ending the cycle of violence, of course they would die. they would disappear.

it would explain why cc!wilbur explains the scene as fundy wanting to get as far away from wilbur as much as possible, not to end it all.

on the other hand, it's sad because… if your entire character is dependent on that toxic connection to nationalism, l'manberg, and wilbur, then, what are you? a few days later, fundy donates the schlatt sword he holds dear and calls an “heirloom” away to the museum. he stands in the rain and disappears from the dsmp forever.

sometimes i wonder what fundy would be, independent of l'manberg. to be okay with being alone, with not involving himself in countries with big plans of power.

it's a hard thing to figure out because we never see fundy after that moment. even before those moments, fundy defined himself always from the way he gets belittled. even the fact that he is a prankster gets roped into this, because he is often made a punchline to other characters like schlatt, phil, tommy, and more. no one takes him seriously. if everyone treats your existence as nothing but a joke, what part of you, then, is real?

we never got to understand what fundy's dreams mean, in the end. we've only seen two instances of this, although in the stream where he finds out wilbur is alive again, he mentions having multiple dreams seeing wilbur. i guess what i can offer is that fundy having such a useful power such as prophetic dreams just proves how he has no one to report things to.

it's like greek myth's cassandra. he's gifted with the skill of knowledge and foresight that he literally cannot use because no one takes him seriously. theoretically, he could have predicted dream's escape, charlie's death, but if he has no one he could trust, what's the point?

fundy’s so much more than what people see him as, inside lore and outside. his entire character explores what it means to be sidelined, to constantly question your worth because of other's input to the point you become it. and when we finally get the catharsis of him letting go, he becomes… nothing. he disappears.

it's sad to see fundy's storyline end this way, but as a fan, i think it felt complete. it felt right. a friend once told me closure is a luxury in the dsmp and fundy is not exempt from that. i'm happy cc!fundy was able to at least tell us a complete story like that, and i'm happy to have met so many fundy fans throughout my entire time here.

he's a great character. i'm happy that he at least exists and prospers in our eyes.

[keyslox]

have you ever noticed how part of c!jack’s character is he is obscure and nobody really knows him and how in the fandom he is also obscure and nobody really knows him

Jack Manifold was never really given the time of day. Sure, he had a small part in the server (ultimately the one who ended the whole thing), but his presence was not respected all that much. Placed into the lowest rank of L’Manberg’s cabinet, killed by Wilbur Soot for ‘not being seen’. He never got a REAL apology for that, by the way. I will stand by the fact that Wilbit’s apology to Jack was manipulative, half-assed, and more for himself than Jack’s wellbeing. It was well before the ‘Apology arc’ and THAT IN OF ITSELF shows just how little it actually meant to Wilbur. He was just doing it to make himself feel better and didn’t actually have Jack’s feelings in mind.

The biggest thing I see going around is Tommy being excused for what he did to Jack. Killing him when Jack went to visit him in the Nether during his Exile. Tommy has trauma. We all know that. He was a victim to extreme manipulation and abuse and a slew of other things. Yet he blatantly ignores every attempt, denies and/or doesn’t fully grasp that he did what he did. Which I can understand because the dude went through severe trauma, but that’s not an excuse. He still needs to take the accountability for his actions.

Jack deserves so much more than he’s ever gotten and it SHOWS. He literally wants friends. That’s it. He wants friend and companionship and he wants what he THOUGHT he had. Because he never actually had it. If he had it Wilbur wouldn’t have killed him, Tommy would actually listen, and he would be shown an ounce of respect for his own traumas and hardships when he tries to talk about it all. All everyone does is dismiss, downplay, and invalidate c!Jack’s pain. That’s a big reason why he’s the way he is! Every other attempt to let himself express his issues ends in him feeling worse about himself.

And we’ve seen time and time again that everyone else Jack tries to talk to and vent to takes Tommy’s side! (Ex: Puffy) There’s bias that Tommy can do no wrong and is the ‘savior’ of the smp. But even if he’s the ‘main protagonist’ doesn’t diminish he causes pain.

They give the excuse that Tommy was a child, that children should be protected and yada yada. Jack was more-or-less a child when he first joined, too! He should have the same excuses, the same treatment as all the other kids on the smp but he doesn’t because he was left alone and had to grow up faster.

He didn’t have anyone to lean against, so he just never let himself fall. And when he inevitably did no one cared or batted an eye because no one was there. He died 3 times and no one batted an eye.

The fandom is so bias sometimes. I’m not huge on DAMP fanfics that involve Jack because they mischaracterize him so much. Put him as a bully in School AUs, make him mean and rude for no reason. The reason in canon is because no one gave a single fuck about him. (not including Niki) Jack had a reason for being ‘cruel’, no one else did. It comes with the fact that Jack’s POV just isn’t as watched, so people don’t know his side of things. But what bothers me is that it feels like fans don’t even try to see stuff from his point of view. He was abused, manipulated, killed, and used in his own right. If everyone else gets excuses for the shit they did, he deserves it too.

Below is how I interpreted Jack’s ending, and how, despite everything he’s gone through, his character gets some sort of ending that isn’t completely angsty. I acknowledge that Jack isn’t the morally-perfect character, that he was fueled by anger and rage. He had a slight victim complex. But from a more basic pov, and for the fans who don’t really understand his character, I think he was redemptive. In his own right.

REDEMPTION:

From its literal definition Redemption is “An act of redeeming or atoning for a fault or mistake, or the state of being redeemed. deliverance; rescue.” The state of being redeemed comes in many shapes and sizes. Actions and words big and small. For some it may take great showings of purpose and selflessness. For others it can be as simple as “I’m sorry.”

Someone can go their whole entire lives fighting with something they ultimately in the end agree with. A lot of it is a matter of perspective. Jack only had one perspective.

Jack was alone for most of his life on the dsmp. Yes he had friends in the beginning but wars and betrayal had him distancing himself and trying to find ways to fix it. None ever worked. Because he was alone. When you only work with one perspective you don’t understand the other side, and how it might actually clear things up and switch your own views.

It only took Jack a matter of minutes after arguing with Tubbo for him to realize he didn’t have the whole picture. Someone so close to Tommy, someone who WAS there to see the other side of things. Someone Jack trusts and respects, who’d he call a friend, to listen and then fight him on his thoughts even if it was in the form of an argument. Though he fucked up and killed everyone, I think his actions of still attempting to save Tommy with Tubbo have given him a bit of redemption. Not all, everyone has faults. But he was on the path to healing when he died. If only for a few minutes.

Jack died by his own hands trying to right his wrong. If that’s not a symbolic Jack ending I don’t really know what is.

[sumwan]

I feel like it wasn’t just to get the disc, exile was too in-depth and complex to be all to get one disc. There’s other ways he could have done to get it. And c!tubbo had the disc, c!tommy didn’t. C!clingy were seperated with c!dream wanting that so I’m not sure how c!tommy could get c!tubbo to hand over the disc to c!dream. If c!dreams goal was to trick c!tommy, get the disc and then do evil monologue he did to c!tubbo but to c!tommy instead and betray him, then his line in staged finale “Tommy we were friends” to me that sounded partly genuine. Like I feel like not to ignore any of the harm done in exile, but the way c!dream is written it seemed like he had different goals. But, in that case, staged finale would have to be with someone else at the vault so I guess it wouldn’t make sense. There’s also later on when c!discduo are in prison c!dream brings up exile, and this is well past staged final. And the whole “we can revive people together” which is either saying that out of how mentally out of it he was and craving allies from being lonely, or to mess with c!tommy. I think it’s hard to know c!dreams mind 24/7 and know when his lying and when his not or when he’s emotionally driven. Correct me if I’m wrong

Thank you for bringing this up! I get what you're saying, and I do agree that it's hard to know what went through Dream's mind all the time, especially without seeing his POV. What we're shown, however, is that one of Dream's goals at the time was to obtain the disc that Tubbo had. And we know that at some later point, his goals were to get himself locked up in Pandora's Vault (staged finale, for which he needed both discs) and to secretly test the Revival Book with Punz. We're never shown any other concrete goal during this time besides these.

As far as we know, Dream never wanted or planned to be actual friends with Tommy. By that point, he generally saw Tommy as being the main source of all problems on the server and the one who had ruined everything for him. So I don't really think that Dream was "partly genuine" when he said that he and Tommy were friends when Tommy was killing him during the staged finale (also because he wanted to get himself into that situation and most of what he said was for show anyway).

What Dream said to Tommy after reviving him in the prison is also something that Dream himself admitted was "just messing" with Tommy [link]. He had to let Tommy go as otherwise Sam would "cut off [his] visitors", "feed [him] less", and "do all these things". I don't believe that it was ever Dream's intention to actually test the Revival Book together with Tommy, he did that with Punz and they purposefully kept those experiments secret from the rest of the server.

Ultimately, it's still possible that Dream had some unseen, unknown goal at the time of exile. But since this is never mentioned or hinted at in any way, I think it's hard to reach any other conclusion besides assuming that Dream wanted to use Tommy to get the disc.

[swordfright]

I'd love to hear your structural hot takes

I already rambled a lot about this here, but alright okay yes I got more. I am here to talk about bullshit and nonsense after all 😤

If we're still talking about how DSMP is a prime example of New Media, and various frameworks you might use to understand it as an example of New Media, then I think it could be useful to bring up the concept of the violence hub.

Before I get into all that I need to define another term: rhizomatic storytelling, which means a narrative that is decentralized, nonlinear, and intricately networked. Does DSMP fit into this category? I would say so, even though it doesn't necessarily fulfill all criteria. It's definitely decentralized (I've already talking a bit about how it's difficult to pin down the parameters of the "core text" when it comes to MCYTRP) and it's definitely a network of little stories coming together to form a cohesive(ish) narrative. But one thing DSMP isn't is nonlinear. It's a very linear story, in the same way that professional wrestling (which is famously fictionalized) is very linear. It's been pointed out by fans that the storylines in pro wrestling pass at the same rate as time passes in the real world - which is pretty unique! You can't say that about most stories, even most forms of serial fiction! But, interestingly, DSMP is the same: time in the story passes at more or less the same rate as time passes IRL, with the exception of periods spent in limbo. This raises some interesting questions about who determines linearity in a prosumptive (co-created by writers and audiences) piece of media. If you're looking at DSMP from the perspective of the CCs, it's a linear narrative in the ways I've just described. But if you look at it from the perspective of the audience (who are given the option to switch between streams, watch live, watch VODs afterwards, watch VODs out-of-order, or refuse to watch some streams/VODs altogether), then it can be - and often is - a very non linear story. In a straightforward narrative where the creators create and the consumers consume, this isn't even a question. But in the case of something like DSMP, which is a collaboration by creators and audiences, those lines of authority blur and we're left wondering whose timeline we're on.

So let's say, for the sake of this argument, that DSMP is a rhizomatic story. It doesn't check off all the boxes, but I would still say it qualifies for reasons I hope I've outlined above in at least a semi-comprehensible way. Well, there's this framework that's been developed for understanding these types of non-linear, decentralized stories: the violence hub.

The violence hub was proposed as a way of furthering our understanding of these participatory “multithreaded” stories that offer many voices at once without giving any particular one of those voices the final word.

Personally, I think DSMP is sort of the perfect example of a violence hub story, obviously because of the way it's constructed (talked about this a lot already here so I won't rehash it rn) but also because, quite frankly, it is a violent story. DSMP is bleak as fuck. Warfare, conflict, and abuse are core motifs. Like, even in a fandom as divided as this one, it's not controversial to say that DSMP is a story that's fixated on suffering, and that fixation is one of its main selling points. Not all fans are interested in those parts of the story, of course, but I think it's safe to say a lot of fans find DSMP's treatment of suffering pretty compelling. This is why people are insane about Exile and Pandora and Pogtopia and, and, and. You get the picture.

The violence hub is also a useful way of looking at not just how the story is structured, but how it is consumed. When fans talk about a violent incident in the story, whether it's Exile or c!Dream's imprisonment or something else, oftentimes we talk about these events in relation to other characters' perspectives and POVs. What's c!Tubbo up to during c!Tommy's exile? Who does or doesn't try to visit Logstedshire, and at what points in the Exile timeline? What's c!Dream doing during the Exile period when he's not at Logstedshire? This interactivity with the incident (Exile) through various other POVs deepens viewers' understandings of that incident, what it means to the characters involved, what it means in the larger narrative, and most importantly - what it means to us, the viewers. The same thing could be said about any period that qualifies as a "violent incident" described in the article screenshotted above. Take Pandora, for instance: how many times have you heard someone say "You really need to watch c!Sapnap's prison visit to get a sense of what it was like," or "c!Techno's prison podcast is vital to understanding what happens in Pandora," or something else to that effect. We all have specific streams we see as crucial puzzle pieces, but we don't all agree on what those streams are. And, depending on which streams you see as vital, your idea of what went down during a particular violence hub incident may be very different from my perception of that event, and vice-versa. Be that as it may, consuming the story this way, rather than in the form of a traditional linear narrative, allows viewers to come to more nuanced understandings of not just the incident in question, but also why the incident happened, what other events led up to it, the later impacts it had on the story, how character relationships and dynamics may have shifted as a result of the incident, etc. The decentralized nature of this structure enables an understanding of the story that appropriately accounts for its complexity.

Now that all that's out of the way, I want to talk about the structure of the violence hub in relation to audience expectations. When the finale aired, I was pretty confused by a lot of folks' reactions, partly because of how I perceived the DSMP and how I see its structure interacting with its themes. To me, DSMP is a story largely about cyclical violence, so an ending where c!Tommy (a main character, driving force for the narrative, and sometimes the protagonist depending on who you ask) chooses to put an end to that cycle made sense to me. I never saw the finale as being about an abuse victim forgiving his abuser, I saw it as being about an abuse victim purposefully stepping back, seeing the cycle of violence for what it is, and choosing to opt out. This is a fairly unpopular interpretation of the finale, but it's one that I stand by because it's firmly grounded in the text: the dialogue, the scenecraft, the structure. Up until the finale, c!Tommy perceives the DSMP as a linear, centralized story - his own! He acts accordingly, rarely stopping to consider consequences or other characters' perspectives. When he's sent to limbo in the finale, c!Tommy is suddenly able to see into c!Dream's past memories from c!Dream's perspective. In this moment, c!Tommy's experience of the narrative ceases to be linear and centralized; in this moment, he is experiencing the story in the same way that we, the audience have been experiencing the story. c!Tommy, placed in the audience's shoes, is presented with what is essentially a "branch" to the violence hub that is Exile, that is Pandora, that is the aftermath of both of those arcs. Upon seeing that "branch" (the memory), c!Tommy is given context for some of the events that have happened on the server. This newfound context allows him to understand his own story as a part of the stories of the people around him. This newfound context enables him to understand the story in a way that accounts for its complexities. He doesn't forgive c!Dream, but he is able to recognize the cycle of violence and choose not to participate anymore.

So, back to the thing I said about structure and audience expectations. As I mentioned, a lot of fans hated the finale for a lot of reasons. It wasn't to everyone's taste, and that's fine. But I would like to posit that one reason people didn't like the finale was because the rhizomatic structure of the story (which c!Tommy becomes aware of) subverted their own expectations about storytelling in general and this story in particular. I'd argue that a lot of people hated the finale because they were still clinging to the possibility of a non-rhizomatic narrative: one that has a traditional beginning/middle/end, one that has clear heroes and villains, one in which unambiguous good vanquishes unambiguous evil. Which isn't a bad thing to want, it's just...not what DSMP is, or ever was.

[mellorphic]

do you have any songs that remind you of dsmp characters? if so, please gimme

(also what is your favorite song/band/artist in general)

Tysm for the ask! I could literally talk about this for hours on end.

Favourite song/band/artist changes all the goddamn time but right now Scum by Lovejoy

In terms of characters you are opening a rabbit hole for me, buckle in.

Tommy

What Can I Do if The Fire Goes Out? By Gang Of Youths fits his exile arc, his relationship with Dream at the time as well as grieving Wilbur - “Do I throw my hopes in the fire? Do I throw my clothes in the fire? Do those things grow in the fire, or burn just to keep me compliant?”

Worried About Ray by The Hoosiers gives Pogtopia!Tommy vibes, with the way he wanted to protect L’Manberg and protect Wilbur - “the truth be told, the truth be told, I’m worried about the future holds, the future holds. I’m so tired of being worried about Ray.”

A lot of AURORA songs give me Tommy vibes but especially It Happened Quiet which reminds me of his third death. She uses a lot of nature related metaphors in her songs which I think fit his character - “Eyes blue and hollow as it rains against their will”

Good Grief by Bastille is such a c!tommy song about grief and how he processes people dying/leaving. I can’t emphasise this enough - “You might have to excuse me, I’ve lost control of all of my senses. You might have to excuse me, I’ve lost control of all of my words.”

Wilbur

Ramblings of a Lunatic by Bears In Trees, specifically for the election era but probably fits most of his L’Manberg arc - “Cause all my friends are dying, some faster than the others. I’m trying to distract myself from the fears that I’ve discovered.”

Youth by Daughter reminds me of the legacy that Wilbur left behind once he died on Nov 16th after blowing up L’Manberg. It’s such a sympathetic song, too - “Collecting pictures from the flood that wrecked this home, it was a flood that wrecked this home, and you caused it”

Saint Bernard by Lincoln fits Revivedbur so so much, but specifically in Hitting On 16, his relationships with Quackity, Tommy, and how he felt about the way people treated Dream (read: how he felt they treated him) at this time - “I said ‘make me love myself so that I might love you’, don’t make me a liar, cause I swear to god, when I said it I thought it was true.”

So many Lucy Spraggan songs?? It’s so hard to pick just one but I’m gonna go with Roots for reflecting on the early days of the L’Manberg era - “I bought a big house in the country, I live there now, does nothing for me. Bought a fast car, white and sporty, when I look back I was pretty poorly.”

Niki

Tongues and Teeth by The Crane Wives as a puffychu song during Niki’s rocket duo arc? Pain. Pain and suffering - “Abandon all your stupid dreams about the girl I could’ve been, my dear. Cuz in the night I know you burn with feelings I cannot return, my dear. Oh, my dear.”

The Calling by The Amazing Devil is such a Doomsday Niki song about her looking back on her life and who she used to be - “I look into the water and see a face I don’t understand. We’re both unwanted daughters, but there’s more than water in these autumn hands.”

Moonsickness by Penelope Scott is literally Manberg Niki and how she was trying so hard to fight for her home but it was futile - “And in your blood you know what’s right, and in your bones you know what’s wrong, and in your throat you know that you’re lying to kids and you know nobody belongs in this hell”

ilomilo by Billie Eilish about post-nov-16th rain duo from Niki’s pov - “I tried not to upset you, let you rescue me the day I met you, I just wanted to protect you, but now I’ll never get to.”

I also think that The Call by Regina Spektor fits all of the L’Manbergians and what they value and their experiences during and after that arc - “And then that word grew louder and louder, till it was a battle cry. I’ll come back, when you call me. No need to say goodbye.”

I’ve been saying since 2021 that The Horror and The Wild by The Amazing Devil is literally Phil and Wilbur talking in the button room, with Phil being the part of Madeline Hyland and Wilbur being Joey Batey - “Think of all the horrors that I promised you I’d bring, I promise you, they’ll sing of every time you pass your fingers through my hair and call me child - witness me, old man, I am the wild.”

If you’d like me to assign songs to specific duos, arcs or characters I can 100% do that! Or if you want a more in depth analysis of any of these songs, I can do that to (this is open for anyone to ask me about, not just Mayrine!)

[cowsandcrows]

dsmp theatee production braainrot

no but like. c!dream actually just wandering through the crowd, monologueing- better, SINGING THE LMANBERG ANTHEM AFTER DOOMSDAY

i am so happy for this

and just all the characters with different amount of armour

wilbur with none obviously but most of dreams costume would be his armour, aside from the mask, and techno would have a lot but it would be embellished and detailed and golden to fit his aesthetic

philza would have just enough to give him some protection but not too much because he doesnt care enough and hes not regularly on the offensive or fighting short-range

so hed have again, armour that fits his aesthetic but mainly like plates on his boots and arms, and maybe a vest that like just covers his chest a bit

OH MY GOSH WAIT. PHILZAS COSTUME DESIGN. WITH HIS WINGS. WOULD BE SO COOL. OH MY GOSHHHHHHHHHH AA

I would kill people to create that costume

ANYWAY characters like tommy or jack would have a lot less armour, just basic stuff

and then when its an actual war like doomsday people will wear change their amount of armour, and it will be so noticeable how much they cover up in that situation

ranboo puts on a full set

techno keeps it easy to maneuvere

tommy doesnt have much, and what he does have would be visibly scuffed and not entirely durable

tubbo has an okay set only because hes the president

dream takes off some of his armour as a power move, unnoticed in the midst of it all

also i just want to. discuss ghostbur. because ohhh my gosh thats such a good focus.

id probably have part 2 focus a lot on techno, though i wouldnt want there to be a clear main character in any of it- like wilburs story would be the focus in part 1, but he dies and that would throw off the audiences understandinf of who the protagonists are supposed to be! MORALLY GREY CHARACTERS HOORAY! CONFUSE THE AUDIENCE AND ANYONE WHO EXPEXTS STORIES TO HAVE A CLEAR GOOD VS BAD DYNAMIC!!!!!

focusing on techno in the second part of the play would be amazing because his interactions with the audience are so unique to other ccs

he talks constantly during lore, breaking 4th wall liberally, hes way less performative in the way he does it too, whereas wilbur and dream would do it with the idea of performance

and like that other person said, techno could actually spend his retirement arc IN THE AUDIENCE AREA

all od this is makinf me think the stage should have a thrust section that is level eith the audience, and maybe even multiple clearings throughout where characters can move to when needed, like with dreams wandering, and where characters that gradually move on-stage will start out? not like for the audience to see, but if youre near them you do see it. different perspectives and stuff

and Tommy might actuallt pick on members of the audience for comic relief, joking around and shit, which would contrast so heavily to exile where he would just sit on the edge of rhe stage and talk to them quietly

and ranboo could be constantly ramblinf to the audience withour a clewr understanding of what they are, and then one person in the audience could actually reply to him, and he could kind of jist stop and go 'wait what, thats not supposed to happen' almost like they did in wandavision if anyone knows what im on about. like that whole interview section? that

AUGHHHH MY BRAIN IS DECAYING schlatt should die in one of those sections in the middle of the audience. im just sayinf. he should.

becayse there are so many different povs to the dsmp i think it would be cool if the stage was set so that different sides of the audience would have a completely different idea of the story

like characters that can be seen wandering around in the background might only be see by the left audience, or the right side might get a different impression of the lighting

or the spotlights could be angled on some characters so that one side of them is obscured by shadow and another side is brightly lit (could work so well with Wilbur or schlatt to communicate how different people hate or idolise them)

please send help

[denscani]

I think it's fair to assume Dog Teeth likely won't be updated again, which is completely understandable, but i'm curious if you're willing to share what you had planned for your c!Tommy and c!Dream prison fic, set in the 'verse?

i technically have most of it in a draft.

the basics are:

it's dream pov. (therefore was unmotivated to ever finish it at the dsmp height/popularity band it used to be in). involves lot of introspection/inner ruminations.

it goes like canon, where tommy gets stuck in the cell with dream. sam has a retractable leash system for dream that attaches to the back wall and near the food chute. length of chain controlled by a remote-like device. (real chained dog vibes, mostly because I think dt!sam is also kind of a freak like that.)

...and tw here for basics of some of dream's thought patterns ...

while stuck in the cell w/tommy, dream basically thinks about:

a) how much he fucking hates tommy for being annoying/loud/in his space/stuck with him, getting him stuck there in the prison, how everyone is suddenly on tommys side when no one even blinked when he disappeared/got exiled at first, they all found him equally a nuisance to some degree, etc, etc.

b)thinks about how everyone looked at him on the beach, how he knows they want to ask why but his only real reasoning is because he could and because he knew no one could stop him. And, to dream, it was the most effective/fast/efficient (read: entertaining) way to keep tommy in line, and quiet, and semi listening to him for once. like grabbing an insect or weird fucked lizard or something that's been underfoot for so long everyone else ignored it, but you stuck it in a jar and rattled it around hard enough it stopped annoying you. and then kept shaking the jar cause you found it funny and amusing and it was something to do when you're bored.

c) thinks about the past and tommys evolution from burning down georges place to being slowly pressed under his boot to suddenly being gone and then seeing how tommys changed from being in the arctic and with techno. physical and emotional differences, like tommy is full height and tall as or taller than him now, filled out muscle wise--> techno isn't gonna let Tommy sit around and not do chores or mine shit with/ for him ---> dream convinces himself that yeah, well, tommy should thank him then. because dream doesn't think tommy would have been taken in unless he really was crawling up to technos porch like some wounded, skittish animal. annoying and loud, obnoxious pre-exile tommy would have been kicked out day one.

---

outside of the thoughts and ideas dream is cooking up and reflecting on in his brain dome, tommy is stubborn and angry and lashes out the more buttons dream pushes from across the cell (verbally).

basically it's like two different kinds of fucked up dogs put into a small cell and the lack of civility they have for each other is like asking two food aggressive mutts to share a single steak. This includes showing lots of teeth, and using them.

--> and before tommy eventually gets out of the prison cell, he starts making some revelations about dream being pretty top shelf miserable and sort of stuck in time (and mindset), and makes the assertion to dream that he'll be "moving the fuck on with his life" (basically tommy's exact words I penned in the draft), and dream wont be there to see it, etc etc.

(and, because this happens through dream's pov and eyes, dream goes back into stewing and ruminating once tommy leaves. dream thinks about the first day he went to visit tommy in exile and while nothing happens (no armor taken, no items broken, nothing yet), he thinks about how much tommy looked up to him during the moments between the anger. joking around still, the piss sheep, setting up tRent, etc, like dream was someone tommy trusted intrinsically, despite everything. and dream couldn't stop making the comparison in his head to how a dog fed enough times looks at the hand that feeds...and trusts it--needs it-- implicitly.)

Something like that anyways...

[luminouslotuses]

obsessed with the idea of the song exile being from the two perspectives of c!tubbo and c!tommy during– of course– the exile arc, bon iver’s parts being tubbo’s pov & taylor’s parts being tommy’s. it’s full of resentment, full of regret, the entire Exile Arc™ package.

the song evermore, on the other hand, is set much later on. tommy’s distressed & in low spirits, stuck in that anxiety-induced mindset he’s all too familiar with. tubbo’s there to comfort him, helping him remember that, no matter how bad the hurt seems now, it wouldn’t last forever.

and tommy believes him, knowing the reason why tubbo’s still there for him, and why he’s still there for tubbo, is because things do and will continue to get better.

if you couldn’t tell this is very non-canon

[ghosts-and-blue-sweaters]

23 and 25 for ask game! :)

Talk about a WIP?

GASP OH MY GOODNESS PINESTRIPE THIS IS SUCH SPECTACULAR TIMING!! Because I actually worked on a rather old WIP two nights ago!!

A while ago (probably early 2024? perhaps late 2023) I started working on a one-shot, then lost inspiration, forgot about it, and only returned to it just two nights ago on a whim XD

The one-shot is set during Tommy’s exile, from Tommy’s POV. He’s feeling very lonely and quite bored, but then Ghostbur shows up in a little boat to visit :) And inside the boat is a Big pile of… clothes?? asdfghgfdsa

Ghostbur essentially raided Wilbur’s closets & chests, bringing almost all of Wilbur’s clothes over to Logstedshire (name of the place Tommy got exiled to) because Ghostbur knew that Tommy frequently felt cold and uncomfortable, and that he didn’t have many spare clothes to put on. And Ghostbur thought that, since Wilbur is dead anyway and clearly won’t be needing all the clothes, that Tommy can use them! And that way he can be warm :]!!

It’s a pretty fluffy concept, but there’s touches of angst woven throughout because Tommy misses Wilbur a lot, and he loved Wilbur a lot, and he also is very angry & hurt by what Wilbur did when he was alive. So the thought of wearing his brother’s clothes feels… complicated.

Here is a small snippet!

~~~

“So… what is all this stuff, then?” Tommy asks, leaning towards the boat.

“It’s clothes! You already guessed that! Why are you asking again?” If it were anyone else saying those words, they would’ve sounded mean, teasing, annoyed. But with Ghostbur, they just sound genuine.

Tommy turns around. “Yeah, but like… whose clothes?”

Ghostbur shakes out his wet shoes, flinging droplets into the air. “Someone else’s!”

Tommy’s eyes narrow. “You didn’t steal them, did you?”

“I wouldn’t steal clothes. That would not be a nice thing, Tommy. I only steal good things like blue and drugs!”

“Okay, but… like… how did you come across these, then? If they’re not yours and you didn’t steal them.”

Ghostbur looks up, flashing a grin. “They used to be Alivebur’s!”

Tommy’s heart beats inside his head. It’s loud. “Oh.”

Talk about something you love?

This is Lambie! She was the very first stuffed animal I was ever given :) She’s my second favorite stuffed animal and has been a comforting presence throughout my life! She used to be really soft with wool that stuck out a little bit, but when I was super young she was accidentally put in the dryer 😭 And it melted her wool a little bit. But she is still one of my favorite stuffed animals & she’s very important to me <3

[catmaidetho]

7 for the violence ask game?

7. what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

it hasnt happened yet with any hermits... thankfully. however, that cannot be said of my times in the dsmp fandom. rant under the cut

🔥 choose violence ask game 🔥

i fucking HATED tommyinnit. despised that guy. listen, i'll be honest, i just found him annoying at first, but my solution was to just not watch him. but NOBODY SHUT UP ABOUT HIM!!!!!! FUCKING EVER!!! they made that pathetic annoying ass little boy the main character of everything that ever happened!!! everything he did was perfect and without flaw and oh how dare you say anything bad about tommy, he's just a kid who's been put thru hell c'moooon.

im gonna specifically rant abt his dream smp character because oh my god they fucking steamrolled that poor boy. everything was about tommy, actually, you just arent looking at this right. c!wilbur's instability during pogtopia? oh dont you know how much that affected his poowr wittle bwother??? then people villainized tubbo for exiling him which tbh that was a terrible situation and no one is at fault, there was no good outcome, but yeah let's call c!tubbo who is ANOTHER FUCKING KID BTW!!!!! as bad as the guy he just overthrew. why not.

and then after the exile arc? oh dont you know tommy's just hurting :( he's sooo sad and depressed :( all of his friends should just instantly put aside their entire fucking lives that they built to helpp him out :( what do you mean techno feels slighted. no techno has no right to feel annoyed by anything that tommy did because tommy made the right choice, techno is just being irrational and not seeing things from tommy's pov! (when did TOMMY ever see things from techno's pov, huh?? when did he consider anyone other than himself????)(CAN YOU TELL I WAS A TECHNO APOLOGIST TECHNOBLADE WAS JUSTIFIED IN EVERYTHING HE DID I WISH HE COMMITTED MORE WAR CRIMES)

anyway i had to mute everything to do with tommy really fast, and even then shit slipped thru my filters and annoyed me.

this isnt even fucking starting on GEORGENOTFOUND, THAT GODDAMN SALTINE CRACKER OF A HUMAN FUCKING BEING-

[anxiouslyextroverted]

do you ever think c!dream was justified in anything he did, and do you think c!dream ever deserved sympathy? I hope this makes sense.

this is hard for me to answer im ngl... In relation to c!Tommy, absolutely not. No sympathy for him in that department. c!Dream is not c!Tommys responsibility. He had no idea that c!Dream was paranoid and lonely and ect, c!Tommy just did dumb chaotic things just like the rest of the server did, how was he supposed to know that c!Dream took that to heart. One of the worst things he did early on the server that no one else did was not give back peoples items after he killed people, but everything else he did was the same as others just with more loudness and swearing.

But in relation to other people like c!Dreams treatment in the prison was horrible, yes he did put himself in that place but he expected to get out after a month or smth. (Also i cant remember exactly but didnt he decide the conditions of the prison?...so he did that to himself? idk) Either way, I feel bad about that. Also, someone said to me once that 'exile broke both ctommy and cdream' cuz its kind of true, exile fueled c!Dreams further derailment and his further need for control, he saw his enemy weak and dependent on him and he felt that power and that seriously messed with him, it was already bad before that but it got worse then. Comparing it to pre-dream getting the revival book, if we take that whole 'tyrant' book he gave to c!Tommy as genuine feelings then its kind of sad that he broke like that and craved control and power out of his need to not be lonely anymore. He wasn't able to break out of that pattern of thinking. Ofc this isn't anyone elses fault, so him blaming c!Tommy is weird objectively but from his pov and feelings, it just kinda shows how broken he was to think that c!Tommy did ruin his life.

Imo the only three things that can be justified was when c!Sapnap and c!Tommy randomly killed him, the first war (dsmp vs l'manberg) and the time he dethroned c!George. I honestly can't think of anything else. Did he deserve sympathy? - I don't know. He didn't deserve all his friends to ditch him. And have sympathy for him during certain moments, but to say he deserved sympathy after doing horrible things would be eh. early dsmp - pogtopia!dream deserved sympathy as well as someone telling him "hey dude you're beefing with a teen thats obvi not as much of a threat as u think he is". exile!Dream and onwards not really but i wouldnt be against him having therapy and leaving ctommy tf alone

[my-lunaberg]

Ive accidentally reached the post limit so Ive basically been doing my liveblog in my notes app, i wrote all of this while watching the February 4th 2022 vod

Oughhhhhhhh the way Sams literally begging

Oh the "present" is gonna be a clock isnt it

Oh nvm its a cake, which is just. so evil man, cakes have terrible saturation but Sam doesnt have anything else so ofc hes gonna be grateful even though its shit

Actually, now that I think about it, I think I was definitely wrong about Dreams manipulation tactics changing with his goals. Like, i still dont think he wants to work with Sam or be 'friends' with him like with Tommy during the exile arc, but he is still doing the thing of breaking people down and then building them up with a fascimile of kindness so that theyll listen to him

Im assuming the time passed irl is the same as the time passed in-universe which means that Sam has been alone in the prison for 4 days but Dream is a lying motherfucker whos telling him that its only been one day

Okay now hes saying its been 2 days but hes still lying

HE DID GET HIM A CLOCK IM GONNA LOSE IT

Okay he wants to compare hkmself and Sam, Im very curious bc this will hopefully grant us some insight into how Dream like, actually percieves himself and his actions

Okay, two things:

1. Dream being like "[the evil bunker full of everyones sentimental items] was just theater" has some serious Wilbur vibes ngl

2. Dream is sooooooo obsessed with Tommy istg

Dream is asking Sam what bad things hes done aside from manipulate Tommy and be dramatic and Sam is like "uhhhhh idk tbh......" as though Dream isnt the guy responsible for Lmanberg blowing up thrice

Sam is basically asking Dream if the things Dream did were wrong/bad and its like, you cant do that, you cant cushion your opinions on someones bad action in this kind of insecurity, especially if youre talking to someone known to be manipulative!!

Ouhhghhh the way Dream can basically make up anything he wants about Tommys time in exile because barely anyone, but esepcially not Sam, visited him

"How was it my fault that Tommy was exiled" I dont even have anything to say, Im just kinda enamoured by the realization of how little people other than Tommy and maybe Wilbur actually know about the exile

Dream just mentioned the Egg and 1. I had already basically completely forgotten about that and 2. The timeline of Drea involvement with the Egg is like, he briefly checked on it back when everything was still kinda kicking of, didnt worry about it for weeks or even months and then he was in jail for a year and he basically completely missed all of the Egg Lore like damn, I hope Punz properly explained all that bullshit to him lol

God, Im projecting so hard rn but Dream weaponizing his own genuine suffering in order get what he wants which also shields him from having to confront the ways it was made him suffer and how it actually affected him is so relatable

Ive been spoiled so I know theyre gonna try and make c!Dream more sympathetic later on and i know a lot of people really hate that and honestly, I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that he didnt get his own POV/only got it very late which gives people less opportunity to sympathize or empathize with him and also really dehumanizes him. Idk this is kinda complex and I'll probably make a seperate post about it

Im going to lose my mind, Dreams monologue about how everyone is the hero in their own story and a villain in many others literally sounds like a thesis statement, like if the Dream SMP had a kids show-esque "message" like so many people inexplicably want it to, it would be this more than literally anything else

OHHHHHHHH the double meaning of Dream telling Sam that he built the prison for him. mwah, perfection

"Dream said he wouldnt lock anyone up in the prison" WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU CAN TRUST HIM

Ooooooooooo Sam grouping himself in with Dream..........

HES TAKING SAM OUT OF THE PRISON

Hes giving Dream full access to the prison theres no way this could possibly go well

Sam as the users manual for the prison vs Dream as the revival book...........

👁👁 HES KILLING SAM??

SAMS DEAD VOD OVER

[robotic-poet]

The aftermath.

[bistaxx]

my last few tags got cut off... I might rb again and add them lol hold on!

I actually really enjoy reading critical posts from people who genuinely love and understand the character they're criticizing.

So now I'm curious.

What do you believe is the worst thing your favorite Dream SMP character has done, and why?

[wonda-cat]

A Breakdown of c!Wilbur's Apology to c!Techno (and Why It Doesn't Make Sense)

(All names mentioned are referring to the dsmp characters, unless stated otherwise.)

Wilbur's apology to Technoblade was a great many things; it was these two characters' first meeting since Wilbur's death, it was a way to put off apologizing to Tommy, and many others suspect that it was a sign of Wilbur's self-hatred—blaming himself for everything that happened in Pogtopia (certainly possible.)

This conversation was also, in no uncertain terms, confusing and completely at odds with canon. As someone who recently rewatched the entirety of Season One from all POVs and has the Pogtopia era memorized, a great many things stood out to me as being contradictory (or at the very least, they stand out as potential retcons.)

I'll be going point-by-point through the meat of Wilbur's apology and explaining exactly why none of it works and why Wilbur has no reason to apologize.

Wilbur: “I’m sorry I used you as a weapon. I knew how powerful you were and I just kinda ran with you.”

Wilbur, since the very start of his exile, was wary and distrusting of Techno. (42:02), (50:20), (55:50) He told Tommy several times that he didn't want anything to do with Techno and he didn't want his help. Even after Techno joined, Wilbur insisted that Pogtopia grow and be self-sufficient without him. Tommy was the only one to ever brag about how powerful Techno was to other people (with fondness, because the kid looked up to him.)

Even as far as the beginning of the festival arc, Wilbur did not want Techno involved in their plans. This changed, however, once Wilbur shifted his goal from reclaiming Manburg, to destroying it.

Wilbur: “I knew that you wanted to remove government and I told you I would help and I just used you to make a new one.”

Wilbur was aware of Techno's dislike of government (in fact, everyone else was too, because that's all Techno talked and joked about during that era.) Hell, Techno's immediate introduction to Wilbur and Tommy was him lightheartedly revealing his distaste for government and explaining his wish to destroy that system. (50:41) Wilbur, again, never mentioned wanting to use Techno and during the time he'd fully started trusting Techno, he stopped trying to reclaim L'Manburg altogether.

Despite this, Techno was the one who offered Pogtopia help. (41:52) You cannot use someone as a tool when the person who's supposedly being used is offering help of their own volition to aid in your cause. Wilbur (pre-Festival arc) and Tommy respectively told Techno multiple times that they wanted to reclaim L'Manburg, not destroy it.

Techno was told this explicitly when he first joined Pogtopia, yet planned to destroy Manburg regardless.

Wilbur: “I’m sorry for the fact that that government then went out of its way to kill you.”

This is flat-out just not something Wilbur should be apologizing for. He is not responsible for this in any way shape or form, especially since, in the end, he intended to destroy L'Manburg with him. He did not expect the government, nor the country, to persist after his suicide.

His intentions were to end L'Manburg's legacy with him. It's the entire reason why he was surprised when Tubbo told him everyone banded together to build L'Manburg back as New L'Manburg. (17:01)

Wilbur: “I think you were right to not trust me and you were right to be angry."

Techno never trusted anyone? That's kinda his whole thing. He's never specifically distrusted Wilbur and especially not during the end of Season One. Those two were on the exact same page. (1:24:43)

Techno: “I was kinda suspectin’ since, with your last words, you told Phil that I was the traitor … So was that all you?”

Wilbur: “I wanted to blow it all up, with you all inside … I’m sorry. I promise you though, I was working on my own.”

Techno and Wilbur have had two separate conversations where they both told each other they were going to aid the other in destroying L'Manburg. In this second conversation, Techno clearly tells Wilbur he has the material to make withers to corroborate Wilbur's plan. (1:28:42) This is heard in every VOD from the Pogtopians (Tommy, Tubbo, Wilbur, Techno, and Niki.)

Wilbur did not lie to Philza about Techno being a traitor. He has NO reason to. In all cases, this seems to be either the result of poor memory or a deliberate attempt to retcon Techno's involvement with Wilbur (in-line with a recent bad streak of additional retcons which exist only to scrub Techno's pre-existing flaws and mistakes.)

The only thing that changes with retconning Wilbur's warning to Phil as a lie, is that Techno's stance as a 'victim' in this scenario is now valid. Which, I suppose they NEEDED to do if this was their goal, because in adhering to the strict canon that Techno and Wilbur were on the same page, then Wilbur would have No Reason to apologize to Techno. His supposed wrongs to Techno (lying about his intentions, leading him into a dangerous situation, and using him as a tool) would all not have happened (which they didn't.)

It would also reinforce Techno as being just as in the wrong as Wilbur during the Pogtopia era (which he was) and that he'd also owe an apology to the L'Manburgians (which he does.) And that's not even touching the SURFACE of how ironic it is for Wilbur to be apologizing for all of this when Techno has done the same exact thing, just far, far worse?

My only real hope now is that this is Wilbur being purposely self-hating, taking responsibility for something that wasn't his fault, and setting up an inevitable confrontation between Wilbur and Emerald Duo about their involvement in Doomsday.