#tubbo meta

[tobi-smp]

I don't want to hold anything against this specific person, because I Remember the discourse that lead to this and I know exactly how it could get passed around and warped (either through telephone or someone's own memory shifting with time).

that said, I never liked that discourse specifically Because it was a clear misreading of the text, and what better opportunity do I have to talk about it now.

the context was the bench trio therapy stream. tommy had been beaten to death by dream, sat in limbo for months, and then revived and told Explicitly that dream was planning on escaping prison and tormenting the rest of the server.

the mindset that tommy is in is that he Has to do something, but he's deeply traumatized by what's happened to him. he's Scared to go back to the prison, but he has no choice but to do it for the safety of everyone else in the server.

the "therapy stream" was bench trio Trying to do exposure therapy on tommy to help him work through his trauma in the lead up to attempting to infiltrate the prison. and the entire point is that they Absolutely Were Not actually helping.

what they were Actually doing was triggering tommy by exposing him to things that he was traumatized by, because they didn't actually know how to do exposure therapy and what they were trying to do wasn't healthy in the first place.

so the Context of this conversation is tommy desperately trying to just, Get Rid Of his trauma (something that is absolutely not possible) while entering a worse and worse mindset because he was intentionally triggering himself.

Likewise, the context for Tubbo's half of the conversation is that he Very Intentionally represses his own trauma, both from Himself and from other people. he puts himself in a little box that he buries under the floorboards and asks people to ignore the way the boards creak when they walk on him.

there's a million ways you could cut Why he does this. part it is his people pleasing, willingly pushing himself down for the sake of everyone else no matter how painful. seeing Himself as an accessory to the people he cares about, rather than a whole complete and important person. and in part because it feels Safer, it's Safer to pretend that nothing hurt him.

and Why that is is complicated. part of it is External. he doesn't Get to be angry about what he's been through, because the people he's angry At will just hurt him again. and if he thinks about how he's hurt then he Will get angry, so he just Won't Think About It.

and part of it is that I don't think he wants to process his trauma any more than tommy does. because it's painful, because he doesn't have the tools to actually work through it, because they aren't Safe so he can't afford to break down now (trouble is, there never Seems to be a "safe" time to think about himself).

they're the Repression Brothers. the difference being that tommy's at a different stage of it. not a Healthy One, but different.

tommy spent months not being able to put into words what exile was, what pogtopia was, was the final control room was. and he still won't be able to put it in plain words for some time from here.

but he's reached the point where he Can't ignore it anymore, but he still doesn't know what to Do about it. he's still frustrated with an (to an extent) Ashamed Of his trauma. he feels Lesser Than he was before and wants it to all just go away and go back to Normal.

he's doing this because he Has To, because he Has to be strong enough to fight dream. because if he's too scared to do it then he'd be sacrificing everyone else's safety.

he and tubbo are doing the Same Thing in different fonts, sacrificing their well being for the people Around Them, including Each Other.

so, lets go back to that moment that started all of this.

the exposure therapy was on the final control room section, with tommy working through having been killed by dream.

tubbo mentions that he died that night too, and tommy says something to the effect of "you did, but you have thicker skin."

this has been taken out of context to mean "you did, but I have it worse than you," when IN CONTEXT it means "you did, but you're stronger than me," or more accurately "you did, But I'm Worse Than You."

tommy does not see his trauma in the context of stupid apologist discourse. he sees his trauma as something that makes him Worse, as something he Shouldn't Feel. as something that makes him Weaker than everyone else, who Obviously are so much more put together than he is.

when he says this he's not saying that he's more important than tubbo, he's putting himself down in comparison TO tubbo.

and this is absolutely still harmful ! This is legitimately one of tommy's character flaws ! but it is Not the selfishness that people make it out to be.

it's tommy accidentally hurting other people by seeing Himself negatively. it's an unhealthy relationship with mental health, and a Realistic one considering the circumstances and setting.

likewise, it's Just As Much born from tubbo's own unhealthy coping mechanisms. tommy assumes that what happened didn't bother tubbo the way it did him because Tubbo wants him to think that.

Tubbo doesn't let tommy see how much he's hurting, which in turn feeds into this cycle.

tubbo assumes he Has to shove his trauma down for tommy's sake (for the sake of Everyone he cares about), and so tommy assumes tubbo was just Stronger than him and wants desperately to just shove his own trauma away the way tubbo seems to be able to.

this moment IS tragic, it IS an example of the two of them hurting each other. but it's BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH THEY CARE ABOUT EACH OTHER !!!

Both Of Them are trying to be strong enough to protect the other, and it's Hurting Them. it's unhealthy, but it 's not Malicious. it's self-sacrificial not Selfish. it's not something they've done to each other but what's been done To Them by the world they live in. what they've done to Themselves trying to live in it.

this shouldn't have been a discourse moment, it should've been clingyduoers tearing each other apart in the street at the tragedy of it

[mikaikaika]

No but I'm stil rotating qTubbo saying "no Sunny our love is different cause it's unconditional" like the implications of this ???? He truly believes that people around him only love him cause he is of some use to them.... and maybe that is why he's subconsciously always ensuring that his machines are always running cause he sees his factories as an equivalent to him being "useful" to those around him..... and also why he's always saying yes to whatever Sunny wants even if he knows he is spoiling her.

Despite claiming to be each other's ride or die, qTubbo really believes that morning crew will sideline him in a heartbeat cause he'd stop being "useful" to them and that's absolutely devastating

[tubboscored]

do you ever think about how wild it is that cranboo met ctubbo after so much terrible shit had already happened to him. how he missed such crucial context that other people in tubbo's live had!! like. he shows up in this country that's been very recently blown to bits by some dead guy everyone refuses to talk about, and the new president is literally just some kid covered in bandages + wearing this suit that looks ridiculously big on him, and ranboo is probably super caught off-guard at first but pretty quickly he gets the idea: this kid's got a funny sense of humor, and he's been horribly messed up by whatever Bad Thing happened here, and sometimes ranboo blinks and the president's eyes have glazed over and he's shouting, commanding this measly broken country with a presence you never thought could exude from such an unimposing little guy. sometimes tubbo gets angry, and yeah ranboo thinks that looks unnerving on him, but it's nowhere near how jarring it probably is for everyone else who remembers the OLD tubbo, tub-in-a-box tubbo, lika-da-bee tubbo, silly fun happy tubbo. he never knew the tubbo before the scars. to ranboo this is, like. just how tubbo is.

[qtubbo]

I feel like I have to explain this, Tubbo said that he wasn’t in the loop on the admin discussion and wasn’t keeping up with it. He was trying to explain that anything he said that implied certain things weren’t/were happening that audience didn’t know weren’t actually implications since he does not know more than us. He was also trying to say why he may talk weirdly about Sunny coming back because he can’t know for sure she is.

It was literally hey im busy with the Tubbathon haven’t been talking to Quackity, don’t take your info from me.

[oddlyzephyrous]

it's interesting to me how the filming and presentation of the resurrections of qTubbo and qBad reflect their states upon return.

when Tubbo wakes up we are in his perspective, first person, similar to how we've always experienced Tubbo's pov. he remembers sunny, that he loves her, he remembers who he is, he remembers his friends. however ccTubbo's facecam is not visible, as it usually is. qTubbo's strange now. he's still tubbo, but different. aggressive, manic, manipulative, angry, insecure, and everything else, dialed up to an extreme degree. this is still Tubbo, his memory intact and his personality mostly unchanged, but he's wrong, not completely different from how he was before but noticeably changed.

When we first see Bad again, we are outside of his perspective, looking at him from a distance. We don't know much about his mental state at this time, but there is palpable fear from the Ghosties, his constant companions, upon seeing him. The outside perspective others him, makes him alien. This is not OUR Bad anymore, in the ways that really matter. This is something that looks like him, but we know nothing about him on the inside, reinforced by how we only see from the outside and not the inside.

i just thought that was really interesting, how the choices in filming and point of view almost contribute to the narrative and vibe of each, upping their effectiveness in eliciting desired reactions from the viewer.

[phatcatphergus]

I was thinking about how Tubbo keeps his rose in his backpack versus how he always kept his funeral flower in his offhand. I wasn't sure why he wouldn't want to keep the flower that Fred gave him in his offhand because surely that one would mean more, right?

I actually think it's a symbol of Tubbo's depression and how he hides it. When he had the funeral flower in his hand, he was sad and didn't really try to hide it. He didn't shower, he was incredibly reckless, and purposefully hurt himself multiple times. That flower was out where others could see, much like his emotions and mental state at the time.

The rose is different. The rose is hidden away and kept safe. Tubbo is seemingly better, he's "showered", started being more mindful of his actions/surroundings, and isn't purposefully hurting himself. But he's still hurting and in a poor mental state that many of the eggs have called him out for. He is still experiencing depression but it's well hidden.

Tubbo kept the funeral flower out because he felt like he had a reason to display his mental state. he figured that if anyone asked and saw how badly he was doing, he had a reason to feel the way he did.

On the other hand, Tubbo doesn't really have a reason to keep feeling like he does after Fred returns. Fred isn't dead, so what is there to be upset about? He hides the rose. He doesn't want people to ask because he doesn't have a reason (in his mind) to still feel the way he does.

Both flowers directly represent how he handles and shows his mental health to others on the island. The funeral flower was out for everyone to see and the rose is only known to exist by a select few people.

[rhiaarrow]

The more we see of Sunny doing stuff on her own accord the more I realize that her adm is a builder at heart. They love block pallettes, they do interiors and exteriors amazingly well and knows about all the different types of blocks in the modpacks.

Sweetie, I'm so sorry that you have a father who will only build something if paid to and will half ass it at that, using only industrial blocks in varying shades of grey xD

I love Tubbo, and don't get me wrong he loves Sunny, but he is not the kind of person who will sit and watch her build for hours on end or spend hours searching for a particular block with her. His patience does not extend to interior or exterior design lmaoo

[saltyyetbland]

okay can i just talk about how amazing the rp was from everyone

cause like the thing with lore is that it is usually either more planned or improv-ed focused but like this stream proves that there is a way to merge the two.

it is obvious that forever's lore is planned. he had admins on his side when the creeper explosion happened, he basically was unkillable until cucurucho chainsawed him, he had a planned cinematic for his ending etc. but for tubbo, bad, bagi, pierre, foolish etc. they were mainly improv. they made a plan with 1k chainsaws and true damage knowledge and fucking sent it.

and even though in meta, they are definitely aware that forever's lore is planned and made even more aware that they can not actually kill him cause of how op forever was, they still kept coming even though it was fruitless on a meta level. because that's what their characters would do. with no meta knowledge, they just see forever as strong af. there is no in-lore knowledge that he was unkillable as they couldn't see his hearts. but they kept trying to save the eggs and kill forever.

say what you want about unfairness of how op forever was or the debate between planned lore like the feds qsmp streams vs the more improv focused resident centered lore, this one stream shows that even in a stream that has a planned ending, you can still do improv, change events and make a compelling story. they got to some of the eggs and got rid of the TNT, they ran to cucurucho and convinced him to get off his ass, they got richas up after being downed etc.

the improv mattered. the planned lore mattered. and it created such a cinematic and tense scene.

[certifiedclownprince]

okay after yesterday I think people need to think in a meta way too even if just a little, and not always be thinking "everyone is always in roleplay"

"people didn't think tubbo's death was serious" okay I get it, I love q!tubbo. But consider the fact that this is Minecraft! Consider it's literally Minecraft and dying+respawning is a mechanic!

They took it seriously after Creation specified that he's actually dead because, you know, they're in Minecraft and respawning is a mechanic :D

[pyrosomatic-metamorphosis]

so soft about the chair and the lamp in bbh's cell. @v@ was deliberately cruel in creating a very small cell with nothing but a federation poster in it. it's deliberately miserable. but the cell is surrounded by the devastation of tubbo trying to break him out. but there are pepito signs and item frames and pictures on the prison walls. but the empty cell has a lamp, and a chair. but he's been inside of a small cell for eight hours, and he's been with his friends for most of that

[haloberry]

Qsmp scattered thoughts!

Fitpac shippers are naked rats, taking no complaints.

q!Bad is having a hard time remembering the eggs bc Heaven took his memories as a way to see just how truly much he had changed for the better.

Ramón would be the biggest hater to Poly Morning crew Methinks.

Dedicated babysitters of the Death children: Chayanne and Tubbo, Tallulah and Bad, which actually was predicted! And what great timing as their father is now possessed!

Fred is writing Fanfiction of them and Tubo somewhere, with “the boy with pretty eyes” mentioned in all works as they think it was their best pickup line ever.

Despite the Fobo kids being each others 1# enemy at one point, Leo and Sunny could probably mumble out a “sister” if they ever had to describe one another.

All the eggs are introverts, not a single one is an Extrovert.

Chunsik and Pepito should have a “enemies to siblings” arc, for the funsies. Two babies battling it out.

Sunny loves being carried, and while their always grateful for their Pa, Foolish carries her better.

The reason q!Tubbo has been having less mood swings as of late is because their body is finally getting used to, well, being alive! If something bad happens though, he will snap.

Admin 18 and cc!Tubbo should do a chess boxing match.

[tobi-smp]

Context: [Link]

the simplest way of wording tubbo and tommy's conflict during the the trials leading into exile, and what particularly makes them so tragic, is that it's

“dream is dangerous so we have to bend the knee to try to stay safe” (<- impossible)

vs

“dream is dangerous so we shouldn't give a single inch if we want to stay strong enough to resist him” (<- impossible)

both of their perspectives make complete sense, and both of them have merits considering how dream had acted before, the problem is that neither of them could have known that dream was a mass murdering serial killer mad scientist abuser. Neither of their perspectives could have worked, not because they were Wrong but because they relied on dream not being an absolute monster.

[mikaikaika]

Everyone tubbo L-ing in chat as if he didnt get exactly the information he was looking for in that cucurucho interaction. My guy has been asking if cucurucho still has power since the reset and well - he finally found out

^^^^ This! Obviously the whole stream was amazing but this was one of my favorite parts! I've been missing this style of interrogation he does where people don't even realize they're giving him information until it's too late. Same with interactions like talking his way out of fines with the rabbit, it's such a cool part of his character!

QTubbo is such a yap master that when he starts running his mouth people don't actually pay much attention and just begin brushing it off as him being him. But eventually there comes a moment where you realise that he has slowly and diligently not only diverted the conversation to what he wanted to, but also made you feel like you had the upper hand - when that was oh so not the case the whole time.

He is extremely good at asking leading questions which make you believe that you're in charge of the information you are giving up but what you don't realise is that you wouldn't have given out the info in the first place if not for qTubbo just making you talk in circles until he gets what he wants.

I still remember when he was slightly interrogating Bad about the disappearance of WB11 aka Ron and Bad didn't even realise he was being cornered and giving up info, until he eventually caught himself and quickly changed the topic. That was the day Bad called Tubbo "Too smart for his own good" and he was so right

I agree with you nonnie I'm so glad with this new arc we will get to see his unhinged side more and I hope we get more interactions with fed workers soon :D

[re-d4cted]

you're telling me q!tubbo publicly broke down after someone mentioned Fred. first by lashing out and silently attacking, and then when that didn't work he just sat with his head in his hands for 6 minutes.... and no one noticed

tubbo the guy who always has something to say, and is always so energetic, that tubbo, went silent and no one noticed

the only one who seemed to grasp the gravity of the situation was tallulah, who has gone through similar things. she was the only one to ask if he was okay

I'm not well

[qtubbo]

One of Tubbo’s major complaints has to do with play-style, he feels that while he understands why his interests are getting sidelined in exchange for “fairness”, which has made the qsmp overall less enjoyable for him. While he understands the reasoning, it’s still incredibly frustrating to have actively less things to do now that the server has reset. He’s not mad at the admins, or the decision just sad about feeling so rejected from what he set out to do.

The example he gave which explains it pretty well, is how Etoiles does not enjoy create so create not being included doesn’t affect him in anyway. Etoiles finds enjoyment from doing dungeons, and exploration, his general play-style being exploration and pvp/pve based. While Tubbo on the other hand does not like exploring or doing dungeons, it’s just not his play-style, he instead enjoys the more industrial side of qsmp with slow building using create. So the reset allows for Etoiles to have a fuller player experience, while limiting Tubbo to things he either doesn’t enjoy or just being a chat room.

He understands why the admins would choose to limit his (and few others) play-styles so significantly but he still wishes there could be a way to go about this with less frustration on his side. He has found the reset overall more limiting for himself compared to before the reset.

[osarquivosmagnus]

I think last week cellbit mentioned on stream how he missed jaiden bc they would usually talk off stream, and that people probably didn't know just how much she would log in bc she doesn't stream every time she is on the server. And also I'm thinking of how jaiden mentioned she and quackity talk a lot on the server and off of it, off stream. I'm also thinking of how roier was kinda low yesterday bc of his bad internet connection and how he had to leave a challenge he was psrticipating and mentioned having been talking to cellbit on discord. And how he and quackity were both off stream but could be seen in the qsmp server. And then how all four of them were just hanging out, off rp, mostly, talking and joking and speaking in their own languages sometimes. And how the day before yesterday foolish, roier, richas and cellbit were also just hanging out till the server closed. Thinking of all the new people being welcomed and everyone looking after them. Thinking of how I was hopping from one stream to another and there were emoticons from lots of streamers in lots of different chats of different ccs. Idk. I just love qsmp, and I think the ccs truly are having a blast and building their own friendships away from the server and inside of it. I know the community is not always nice and I'm not trying to romanticize it, but. Yesterday was pretty cool