#ambition incorrect quotes

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Oh, indeed. There is an incredibly popular quote used in probably hundreds of jonsa graphics and a few metas and no doubt a lot of videos by now, "Stone and snow, that was all that was left of Winterfell. Just like her and Jon." I have no idea where it originally came from, some 2011/2-era fanfic or graphic edit, but it certainly does not come from GRRM. Heck, it's not even grammatically correct and not even really GRRM's style (not that that's ever stopped anyone).

And yet, a few years ago, a jonerys friend asked me to proofread their meta disputing various jonsa claims… and within their essay, they had spent 6-8 paragraphs disputing this quote. 🤦‍♀️ They were extremely surprised to hear it was not actual ASOIAF text that they needed to consider.

And there's so much out there, just like this. Another pervasive one, non-ship related, is “a harp in the tomb, a child in the womb, a dragon in a stone egg”, a nice bit of poetry sourced only from a theory essay postulating Rhaegar's harp is in Lyanna's tomb. People have come to me going, "but that theory must be true, I mean, the poem!" and I had to gently explain he drew the receipts himself.

(lol, well, I say not ship-related even though it's R+L=J, but I tend to think of those obsessed with it (particularly that essayist) more as theory-obsessives rather than ship-obsessives. Not to slight shippers, I'm one myself, but it's a different kind of attitude for text analysis and projection, focusing less on proof of love specifically.)

But yeah, made up or misread jonsa theories are hilariously pervasive -- "the girl in grey" for one (it's Alys Karstark, who came to the Wall as a girl in grey riding a dying horse escaping a forced marriage. GRRM gave the answer in the book the prophecy appeared ffs, the whole story point of the prophecy is that Jon sent Mance and the spearwives to Winterfell to aid "Arya" and thus they ended up in Theon and Jeyne's storyline, but no, Sansa's going to do it all over again just because!) And my Ashford tourney crack theory they stole and misinterpreted (it was about Aegon, and about the fact nobody won the tourney because of Dunk (Sandor, lol, though I'll accept Brienne too), and I've seen people seriously considering it important even though I admit it's almost certainly coincidence and doesn't mean anything! Jonsas aren't the only ones of course, believe me I've seen some tremendous crack in my own ship, but I'm thinking specifically of cases like that where the actual text of the story (Alys Karstark, Mance, Jeyne, Theon; or the historical events of the tourney where Dunk and Egg met and Baelor Breakspear died) doesn't even seem to exist if you're only looking at edits and videos and other fanworks. It gives a wildly bizarre reading of the text if you've never actually read it.

And yes, twitter is full of these cases where the text has become irrelevant, where people make inferences and projections on top of distanced inferences and projections. Not to exclude worg and reddit, where people just make theories-on-top-of-theories, building up enormous cloud castles with no real foundation. Like the Southron Ambitions Conspiracy (textually, the rantings of a lonely paranoid woman), which developed (rationally) into the fan theory that "the STAB bloc formed to remove the Targaryens", but people use that as a basis for so much more, defaulting it as true, even though it is still only an unproven theory! And because it's maester-related and Targaryen-related, it's been mixed with the maester anti-magic conspiracy (very likely true, but also very shadily sourced within the text), into this enormous Protocols of the Elders of Hightower bizarre conspiracy theory that the Hightowers and Citadel want to control all of Westeros and killed all the Targaryens and dragons even the ones who were killed by each other and you can't trust the maester-written Fire & Blood in any way! except it's an inviolate text for the parts you want to be true and nothing is real but everything is, how dare you say otherwise.

Anyway, thank you so much re the term "sourcecreep" and that Jack Sparrow not-a-quote. Fascinating stuff.

@ilynpilled

ppl being more interested in Fandom than the actual source text is so real like they do have their own nonexistent text thats just a recycled concoction of the same bland fandom incorrect quotes tropes over and over again which deviates so much from the canon and they prefer to the actual thing lol

my favorite example of sourcecreep is the fact that if you go on reddit, pinterest, or facebook, or google image search 7 years ago, or flickr and photobucket if you're properly fandom old, you will find image edits of disney's jack sparrow with the quote overlay "the problem is not the problem. the problem is your attitude about the problem."

if you've seen enough of these edits (there are many thousands of them), you might even read those two sentences in his trademark cadence.

the problem here, though, is not anyone's attitude about the problem. it's that this quote has never appeared in any of the five films in which jack sparrow appears. nor in any of the video games he stars or guest-stars on. nor in any of the tie-in young jack sparrow novels or the film novelizations. it is not from a deleted scene or an early draft of any script. it's not from any of the disney park parades or firework shows in which jack is included as a face character with recorded speaking lines. it's not from the original ride or the re-dress of the ride post-dead man's chest.

this is a quote from the YA series the sisterhood of the traveling pants. one of the characters' coaches says it to them in one of the books because they are children in high school. there is no reason for it to be attributed to this character or this franchise besides one patient zero at some point or another 20 years ago making an image with a text overlay on picnik photo editor and uploading it to their livejournal or whatever.

anyway this is how asoiaf fans on twitter absorb information about their favs from the series and then post about it. i believe there are many such cases across fandom at large.

[luxthestrange]

TWST Incorrect quotes#617 Go big or go big-

Pirate Savanaclaw with Giant Sea Monster Yuu and Lovestruck Pirate second in command Ruggie-

Pirate!Ruggie*Telling the crew to go towards you...who is brushing your hair with a swordfish *She'll not harm us! Full bore and into the abyss! Captain!Leona: Are you mad? Pirate!Ruggie*Has Flowers, and a ring at the ready, mockingly looking at Leona* HA! You 'fraid to get wet?~

Sea Monster!Yuu*Is currently singing*

My father was a sailor My mother was a fish Since I was little girl/boy I've only had one wish

A tiny dream belonged to me To be known across the seven seas I started small but my ambition grew And now I'm known across the ocean blue

All my life what I wanted to be The fiercest monster in the deep blue sea

It's a lonely life But the only life I would ever want for me

But I've come so far And now I'm a star And everyone knows me

Yes, I am number one sea beast I am the-...

Standing on the top of the ship is Ruggie clapping with a lovesick grin, annoyed you lower yourself to see who dared to interrupt your groove

Pirate!Ruggie*Smilling with heart eyes*Wow, you have a beautiful voice~- Hi, Mx Yuu, My name is-

Sea Monster!Yuu: Dinner. Your name is Dinner

[askyuuandco]

Twst Incorrect Quotes 19

Malleus: *goes to Lilia* Greetings Father. My brother (Silver) and I have a request for dinner. ^u^ Lilia: *looks up from his newspaper* What is it then? ;:/ Malleus: the representatives have come to a verdict. We would like Five Guys for dinner. UoU Lilia: *puts paper away* Five Guys? What a presumptuous request. ;:> Malleus: We will also take McDonald's as a compensatory selection. :> Lilia: Do you have treasury for your demands? ;:/ Malleus: Are you asking if I have McDonald's money? O_O' Lilia: Perchance. =v= Malleus: Father Please. My brother and I have been eternally faithful to this house. We will use your funds for the Five Guys Campaign. >m< Lilia: I envision you're aware of the leftover soup in the fridge. >_> Malleus: Yes...I am >n>'/// Malleus: Now would be a good time to mention I got an A on my history test. *hands Lilia his test* UvU' Lilia: *reads it* How convenient. Now tell me, When did you receive this A? >v>

Malleus: Last Month. UvU Lilia: A month ago? :0 Lilia: You waited 4 whole weeks to tell me this triumph so you could leverage it for Five Guys? >:0 Lilia: Do you see me as a cattle for you to milk whenever you go thirsty? >:L Malleus: You said we choose what we wanted and this is our decision! >:0

Lilia: Answer the question boy. D:< Lilia: Am I Midas? >:( Lilia: Am I made of gold? >:(

Malleus: Brother shall take out the trash and vacuum all the floors! Father please just hear our cries! ;A; *begging* Lilia: Does your brother object? >_> Malleus: My Brother wanted McDonald's but my ambition has caused him to take arms in the crusade >:3 Lilia: So your both greedy! I have raised WEAKLINGS! >A< Malleus: I AM NO WEAKLING!!! D:< Lilia: Get the soup out of the fridge... =_= Malleus: FATHER YOU LIE!!! YOU PROMISED! ;A; *on his hands and knees pleading* Lilia: Does it look like I give a FUCK?! D:< Lilia: *furious finger points to the fridge* GO GET THE SOUP! >:(

Malleus: *goes back to his and Silver's room* ;m; Silver (16): *wakes up* What did he say? =o= Malleus: we have to eat the soup... Silver: *fully awake* NOOOOOOOOO!!!! ;A;

[miguel-manbemel]

Spite and Ambition

Inspired by an incorrect quote by @loganslowdown4 .

[browneyesandhair]

Incorrect Bridgerton Quotes:

Penelope: Does what bother me?

Colin: Does it bother you that you’re … single?

Penelope: Sometimes, but just like George has value outside his romantic prospects, so does my life, my ambitions, and me. So, while I’d like to be in a relationship one day, I’m not going to sacrifice any of my current priorities to try to chase one down.

Aiitlr

[folkdances]

one last thing aa fans are the definition of “the Female was written badly unlike the men so that’s why i don’t care about her” which is a little funny because while aa is definitely prone to bouts of misogyny the women aren’t written any worse than the men. actually aa as a story is mostly about women, especially the original trilogy. but try explaining that to someone whose ambition is to run a found family incorrect quotes gimmick blog

[classicoatcakes]

So I love the Star Trek Original Series, but can we talk about what a horrible note it ended on?

- This episode establishes (although there could’ve been another episode that mentions this I’m forgetting) that there are no women who are Captains in Starfleet, despite the fact that it is thousands of years in the future (I guess women being in charge was just too “out there”)

- when Dr Lester switches bodies with Kirk she’s seen smirking, filing her fingernails, and acting hysterical because apparently that’s what you get with a woman in charge???

- the last quote REALLY bugged me. “Her life could’ve been as rich as any woman’s. If only…” Bitch what?? Is that the takeaway? That women should be happy with what rights they have at the present time and any ambition whatsoever makes them villains? Fuck outta here

It really left a bad taste in my mouth. I dared to hope maybe the end of the episode would’ve gone in a different direction because at the beginning Kirk briefly mentions that yes, it is unfair that women aren’t granted control of starships, but the conclusion they came to was absolutely the incorrect one. And this was the last episode of a show that had in many other ways been breaking down barriers in television. But I guess it was still maybe a decade too early for women to be seen as equals? Fucking disappointing honestly.

[mythicalmagical-monkeyman]

What zodiac would everyone be? (Blame Tabs)

@tabsters for that exact reason :3

oky, so personality wise and birthdays, I can do.

---

Macaque:

--(Birthday) Mac is 100% a dead of winter birthday so Pisces (February 1-5)

--(Personality) A leo. loyal, consistent, theatrical, ambition and determination. good fit :3

(bonus incorrect quote: Macaque: Like the zodiac sign? I'm a Leo. Ma: No, stupid, Azure's a Leo. You're a Macaque.)

Wukong:

--(Birthday) Brain is telling me Wukong needs a spring birthday, so he'd be Aries just barely (aka middle of April for birthday)

--(Personality) He's a virgo surprisingly? Like logical, kind, attuned to the ingredients that make up a whole, hardworking, smart but he's almost a different flavor of Virgo if that makes sense?

Ma:

--(Birthday) Gemini for the fact that it'd be funny if she was one of those "my-zodiac-personality-matches-my-real-life-personality" people

--(Personality) Ma is a Gemini that is all. creative, fearless thinker, communication is key, playful and curious.

Sandy:

--(Birthday) Sandy needs a summer birthday me thinks, so Leo

--(Personality) Cancer (but he also could have been a Scorpio) and definitely not just because they are both land and sea creatures. loyal, commitment, emotional depth, excellent host, comfort food, comfort, self-care, and caregiver.

MK:

--(Birthday) Scorpio for no reason.

--(Personality) Libra me thinks? Art, intellectualism, harmony/equilibrium, relationships are key, and social.

Nezha:

--(Birthday) Brain neeeeds to have Nezha's birthday be Christmas day for reason so that would make him a Capricorn

--(Personality) my bro is an Aquarius, misconceptions, innovative, progressive, rebellious, teamwork and humanitarian, seems somewhat cold.

Tang:

--(Birthday) Cancer, he's also summer but a different type

--(Personality) (this one was hard but) Pisces: fantasy vs reality. empathetic, compassionate, imagination, and kind.

DBK:

--(Birthday) DBK seems like a fall birthday guy so Libra

--(Personality) Aries :3 Bold, dives headfirst into even the most challenging situations, passionate, confident leader and has relentless determination.

Ao Lie:

--(Birthday) I see Ao Lie having a winter birthday so he'd be a Sagittarius

--(Personality) um so tabs how do u feel about Ao Lie being a Sagittarius? Look he's passionate, curious, intense (sometimes), explorer, seeker of knowledge and adaptable.

(side note: Erlang is also a libra)

source

[empyreanwings]

Incorrect Quotes Generator 📜 for Sir Pentious and Lute? — @dark-ambition

Lute: i went through an entire character arc during quarantine Lute: i became more evil if you’re curious Sir Pentious: We're still in quarantine, don't worry, there's time for a redemption arc still! Lute: i’m going to get worse on purpose

[kaantt]

Kaamelott incorrect quotes:

Bohort : There's a lot we could talk about!

Calogrenant : Like?

Bohort : Like our hopes, our dreams, our ambitions...

Gauvain : Ok, so last night there was this lion chasing me, but it had tiny legs. It was a full size lion, but it had the legs of a sausage dog.

Galessin : Not those types of dreams Gauvain.

[leyamoon7]

leyla. firstly how are you? secondly what got u into doing what u do and how’d u grow such a big platform! also where do u think draco would work in the muggle world?? thankss

Hey, pookie, I'm good, thanks for asking<3

I've been a fan of Harry Potter for years, but I never tried making edits because the ones on IG were just so good. I felt like I couldn't measure up. But my love for HP just pushed me to do it. I started out on tiktok instead, it felt easier, and I already had a (shitty) Breaking Bad acc at the time.

So, I started with a satirical "HP boys react to," which was pretty (un)funny, and not many people were doing it (no one at the time), so it felt kinda original. While I was posting edits on my BRBA account, I started making these satirical videos for my HP account. And about a week later, I added voices to them, and one of them went viral (8k).

And then, when I posted the very first video with this style you know, (a famous incorrect quote), it went viral too (40k), then the second one (84k). I was pretty shocked lmao. I kept doing it, and then I got this original idea, "How To Be Perfect Like Me" show, and I just went for it, the first one got 92.5k, and I thought I'd do like five episodes and be done… yeah no.

And Draco would probably be something like business management, finance, or entrepreneurship(? I feel like w his intellect and ambition he might be in executive positions in the business sector or start his own companies.

[tuneonin]

✏️ @dark-ambition (Sir Pentious)

Send in ✏️ and I’ll use an incorrect quote generator featuring both our muses!

Alastor: Just a minute. I need to go take out the trash. Sir Pentious: Oh. We're going out? Alastor: Wh...

Alastor: Love makes people do stupid things. Sir Pentious: I love everything! Alastor: That explains a lot.

Sir Pentious, making a cup of tea: Yeah, get into that leaf juice, you sexy, sexy bee sauce. Alastor: Hey, do you take constructive criticism? Sir Pentious: I absolutely fucking do not.

[horizon-verizon]

I think it could be correct to say the Radowski article can feel accurate for ASOIAF when the rest of the storyline would really turn out as this better written version of GoT some fans always seem so eager for. The illusion they fall victim to is we would have a 'good' story then, because it would be technically better written. But 95% of the writer's criticism would still stand, and we'd still end up with pointless, toxic, unsatisfying shlock overdoing the subverting expectations shtick.

Disclaimer: This post will undergo several edits even after publishing because I am that person.

Anon's talking about my Twitter thread HERE about a 2021 article writer's critique of GRRM and ASoIaF. And they are referring to the last post about it HERE. And their post kinda reminds me of the latest ozymalek/pheonixashes quote here:

However, I wouldn't say "95%" because:

more than once, Radowski's goes into parochial stances that turn out to be incorrect and relying on what others have said of the text rather than what is in the text--they often actually more reveal how we've been guided into looking to Dany as the readers' AND commonborn's/HUMANITY's hope both by narrative and our pro-feminist/class-conscious selves (ASoIaF being "anti-fantasy" or "having no fantasy/a-fantasy"when that is really just some stupid fans' interpretation)....and this really undermines their point about ASoIaF being even technically horrible

they/she used a particular literary element incorrectly in their critique of how GRRM writes his characters

I'd instead say "70-80". Or that several times, the writer makes their good points, and then sometimes messes it up.

A)

I start to question what do critics mean when they say "well-written"? Morally vs technically, and when "technically" just means aestheically vs moral criticism; is the line blurred there, or do people blur it themselves? "Technically", to my understanding, refers to paragraph formatting, pacing, spelling, punctuation, grammar and vocabulary (i.e., diction); all those things that writers and speakers use to convey meaning almost poetically, that itself could develop a certain style or rhythm either familiar or more on the original side. All are meant to convey the psyche of the character, and the stakes of the events/scenes, and ultimately contribute to the moral spirit of the story. One person says: "I-the-reader am a brain parasite. the characters think thoughts they would never tell me. I see their worst impulses, their immediate instincts, their intrusive thoughts. a lot of it is unsavory, but it's done in such a way that it all feels deeply real and true to life." Does this not mean that the story is written better than what Radowski thinks it is? I'd say "yes".

B)

There is this:

AND

a.

It's weird and self-sabotaging to assume that because (some) fans interpreted the Starks pre-Ned-death as the moral standard of the story that is what the text offers.

The Boltons have been the Starks' ancient enemies--not quite to the level of the brackens and Blackwoods' enmity bc: the Starks always managed to come out on top; there was had lasting "peace" intervals of cohabitation; and the fighting itself reasoned/characterized not by the Blackwood-Bracken Romeon-Juliet family feuding so much as the Boltons being eternally ambitious and ruthless. I think that because they take on their flayed skin and ruthless ambition as their house identity, the feudal system itself creates the Boltons and we have an interesting enough tension of what makes identity/the villain in such a fantasy story. It's philosophical. But hey, I haven't heard or seen criticism of this beyond OP's oversimplification of the Boltons' presence.

Yes, of course, we all can see the Bolton's final end coming from the Starks and yes they are obviously evil. The question is not whether their conflict is complicated so much as the questions about identity present in such a conflict married to the feudal/Westerosi militant preference for male "strength" that makes the Boltons develop pride in such violence that I definitely think produced the crazy, off-the-wall Ramsay Bolton. Another character we can attribute such a social phenomenon to is the ironborn revving/raping society's effect on how men like Euron Greyjoy become who they are.

Oh well, a missed opportunity.

Even me just pointing out how Ned's death launches his family to become many different people is a testament to the deaths/violence/bursts of emotion creating the plot points the OP critic claims do not exist at all.

b.

Like I said in that Twitter thread, the writer makes very true & good points about sexual violence against women, and I personally don't much care for Brienne's story in the way it's almost written for Jaime's not-morally-redemptive-but-self-redemptive arc (as presented by fans as morally redemptive bc it's supposedly getting Jaime away from the "true" abuser/source of evil in his life, Cersei), and I have taken the "soft" goal of identifying where and when GRRM makes his repackaged/reversed subverted tropes because this wasn't a part I pondered as often as I should have.

However, it is actually incorrect for this person to say that it's "never" explained why Brienne wants to be a knight or imply that her "idealization of knighthood" doesn't itself come from her experience with gender.

I don’t understand why Brienne couldn’t stay at Evenfall Hall and be her father’s Castellan or Captain of the Guard. She’s the only surviving child (and heir) of Lord Tarth, so I’m confused why her father would let her roam Westeros as a hedge knight. It’s also never explained why Brienne wanted to be a knight in the first place.

So just because Brienne is her father's only surviving child, she must, morally, become the lady instead of following her dreams and being a knight (what the original writer leaves us to believe)? The first actual female knight to be customarily trained or to become the better/needed version of the knighthood that real knights (all men) have abandoned in their responsibility and cynicism?

So, there is only one way to live morally, and it is to act inauthentically, to ignore the pleasure one finds in the sword and self-defense, and to be another's more direct "guard"? A guard is an inferior "career" choice for a GNC woman?

The writer expresses that they can't fathom being a knight when there's the option of being a lord or the equivalent. Maybe they should read the book and accept different people, including women, have different perspectives and reactions to whatever empowers them, different developments of being? Not everyone wants to or should hold political positions of power that move & practically organize large groups of people/a community. Some people prefer to just be musicians or writers, poets or parents, doctors but not scientists or philosophers, etc.

blankwhiteshild says it way more eloquently than I in various posts, but the purpose of Brienne and Jaime is to highlight a constant thing GRRM does with his characters: making the marginalized the heroes of the story. The writer of the article winds up reinforcing some "toxic" and misogynist ideas in the process, which in turn puts into doubt their abilities to read or be totally or even well-entrusted to inform people about what's going on in the story and in the characters' minds.

The OP is under the impression that Brienne is trying her damndest to become like a man, transition or be a transgender man, or truly just to reject all modes of traditional femininity (that is really just socially-coded and enforced, constructed femininity) just because she loves to use a sword and does not conform to the Andal ideals of feminine looks. They should have been clued in about the falseness of this sort of thing with there being a politics of desirability and an insufficient binary enforced through femininity characterized as the "opposite" of masculinity--by how she's constantly described as "ugly" and "too much" of a "man". A commentator in that thread pointed out:

So the original critic seems not to have understood where Brienne was coming from, how young she is, or even familiar with her history...which is the entire impetus behind many characters' conflicts with the system GRRM is criticizing but choosing not to criticize through more characters other than Dany & Arya.

Not only that, Brienne "acts like a man" not because she hates women or thinks them inferior and hates herself as Ceresei does. She does not hate herself because she does not take her womanhood as the justified cause for her society subjecting her to abuses or reserving power away from her towards men--she did not develop that sense as Cersei has. She takes up the sword because her build allows and inspires her the confidence and opportunity to protect herself and others, which psychologically fulfills her. Plus she greatly admired and loved Catelyn Stark, who is not at all "mannish" in the social paradigm of Andal feminine beauty at all--Catelyn is rather known for her physical beauty as well as her sense and practice of responsibility. Catelyn also struggles with seeing her past labor of directing her Tully household and being a sort of new authority after her mother dies, having learned all her life that what she performed as a man's job. She constantly vacillates between marrying what women/girls acting out their obedient, subordinate roles versus herself using and wanting more political duties coded or suggestive of "male" from both necessity and necessity-self-generated desire. In all of this, Brienne admires Catelyn, wanted to be her sword shield forever at one point, and never said that Catelyn should be something that she wasn't. The text gives us that Brienne left her father's castle because she knew that she would never fulfill that lady-lord role despite her being able to fight (again, not everyone should be or can be or wants to be a leader in that way), so she left to follow her dreams.

To argue that the text says she is inherently mannish because of this ignores the text AND actually repackages Brienne's struggle with society's evaluation of her worth/her experiences with sexual assault as unreal and unworthy of discussion. It reinforces, ironically enough, that Sansa-stan bullshit of women tending naturally having to be as little as "masculine" as possible to be both considered real women and worthy of admiration. What happened to the love for gender-nonconforming women AND the truth of GNC also still being victims to misogyny and sexual violence--hello, the consequences of anti-trans bathrooms hurting Black/PoC, physically GNC white women and girls! You are attributing sword-wielding and martial activities to only men, just as how medieval men used to justify women being kept out of higher positions of power (Rhaenyra; written by mononijikayu). Again, just bc even I--the reader--am uninterested (at least as I am of Dany) or stupid, doesn't mean that this theme and logic isn't there for anyone to see and observe if they simply applied themselves.

I also find the Starks-as-a-unit uncompelling as hell, esp without their women. Their roles pre-NED-death as sort of societal "fixer-uppers-but-by-being-conservative-and-non-confrontartional-until-the-social-feudal-order" is ethically unsound and thus tiresome. Their individuals Arya, Jon, Bran Sansa (and in that order) are interesting and compelling...but the Starks before Ned dies? Eh.

It's clear that they were meant to be the narrative's designated feudal honor keepers, which really isn't very "honorable" at all (the unraveling/unseating Stark supremacy "traditional values: honor, justice, responsibility, and family" that's really just maintaining the integrity of the oppressive feudal social order). I'd argue that the Starks' dissolution was both needed and necessary to the points GRRM strives to make about class and gender roles. It pushes things off to position the Big 5 as who they need to be for the Long Night, by putting them in positions where they must navigate around constrictions against their transitioned states/identities to prepare Westeros and become leaders in their own right.

There is something visceral and pleasant and morally satisfying to be said about being the socially ostracized/marginalized person, even though not their own intentions, becoming a crucial element to saving the world by redirecting the societies that seek to destroy or limit them. There is something like a grand poetic "compromise" (this is not the right word, but the right word escapes me) there that draws me in because it's often the case for marginalized people to be capable of living in this world ethically confidently and with as much sense in their own agency as possible...as much as they can anyway.

Yes, I would say the draw for GRRM's work and ASoIaF is that it puts us into these people's minds without relying on a stream-of-consciousness POV like that of Virginia Woolf.

Bran's becoming the 3-eyed crow and showing that disabled people are worthy and can "do" or be able at important tasks and roles while being still imperfect; Sansa coming into her own against Littlefinger coming from being a bully against her sister from said classism & sexism that favors her; Tyrion, like Bran, his own flops and struggles in living as a disabled man but still being an aristocratic man (Shae)...I'd say that yes, there is a lot of conflicts (not "internal") many characters of ASoIaF go through. Problem is that they are not as actively trying to upend or explore other options as Dany. Jon maybe is closest, but even he still uses slavery with not as much compunction about it as Dany locking up her own dragons to protect her Meerenese people, so...

C)

a.

About how to write violence in a way I do not think is the only effective way to write violence (regarding Oberyn's fight w/the Mountain vs. Chuck Palahniuk’s Invisible Monsters):

vs

However, to say that Oberyn's death itself was unsymbolic and totally absent of anything higher in meaning, that the random stableboy's death did not itself refer to something other than a random stableboy getting smashed is incorrect:

"The luckless stableboy [sic] behind him was not so quick. As his arm rose to protect his face, Gregor’s sword took it off between elbow and shoulder. “Shut UP!” the Mountain howled at the stableboy’s scream, and this time he swung the blade sideways, sending the top half of the lad’s head across the yard in a spray of blood and brains […]".

I would argue that the stableboy getting hit and killed in the crossfire conveys his and other "peasants" protection from higher borns' military, violent activities. The randomness, as we know it now or should now, is meant to convey the randomness begotten from a privileged lack of compassion. That is not an absence of meaning by definition.

However, it becomes trying and consequential when there's very little to no real pushback from those little guys elsewhere in the narrative through collective actions or inside looks at how these people may protect themselves against these people. That perspective is missing and thus undermined. It then is GRRM is saying that there is no out nor even escape/relief. And then you are exhausting your reader more than you should--not to say that you should push your readers' mental and emotional capabilities, but you must be aware of what can bring them (a particular audience) to an unforgiving point of frustration and hopelessness. It may not be intentional, but for writers tasking themselves to be as critical of societies like this and failing to notice such a thing in their own writing is a serious failure that needs to be addressed.

American enslaved people not only physically rebelled through weapons and organized themselves in secret meetings or ran away. The ones who stayed or didn't fight poisoned their masters; held up work; destroyed tools; made as of they were too ill to work; made emotionally healing hymns that themselves were instructions or hidden messages; learned skills "from blacksmithing to dressmaking, to increase their indispensability to those who profited off their labor and to decrease their chances of being sold and separated from loved ones".

The consequence of not letting students know about various ways enslaved people resisted their conditions: "But because insurrections were so rare, when they are taught in isolation, students are left with the impression that the vast majority of enslaved people who did not rebel accepted their bondage. Some even interpret this to mean that African Americans were complicit in their own enslavement."

While common-born people are not slaves because they cannot be sold off and/or separated from families, they also were not completely considered important enough and in many cases "enough" of humans themselves. I mean, even in Essos, do we often hear of how the slaves (slaves by class and war, not race, but it is still the complete objectification of humans for the economic prosperity of a few) resist?

This is why Dany is also even more beloved--she is that "out" and possible rescue., as she--above all the other characters--is thinking about people across and under these class distinctions for their own sake. She embodies the goal that more ethically conscientious readers are looking for (esp those who are the more progressive...and morally correct, tbh).

And I must point out that I agreed with the paragraph formatting the article writer pointed out. If It were me, I would have separated & isolated much of the sentences to convey the quickness of the battle and to emphasize that stabelboys'd eath. If you're going to convey the randomness of his death, why not the isolation of this death by rewriting it to:

Spectators screamed and shoved at each other to get out of the way. One stumbled into Oberyn’s back. Ser Gregor hacked down with all his savage strength. The Red Viper threw himself sideways, rolling. The luckless stableboy [sic] behind him was not so quick. As his arm rose to protect his face, Gregor’s sword took it off between elbow and shoulder. “Shut UP!” the Mountain howled at the stableboy’s scream, and this time he swung the blade sideways, sending the top half of the lad’s head across the yard in a spray of blood and brains […]

Not only is this less drag on my eyes and brain, I have made sure to readers that this moment is emphasized and to be remembered. Of course, with a later hint of some malice or rebellion targeted towards the mountain from maybe a friend or family member of that poor stableboy.

Therefore, the OP comes off of being more like describing how they think fiction writers should write--conflating style with overall storytelling, not the grammar and formatting. And thus, it becomes a lot easier for anyone else to believe this person that they just do not like high-fantasy fiction as a genre, and thus cannot conceive of how speculative, self-subverting, and subtle the genre could and can be. It doesn't help that they used a nonhigh fantasy example for the technical writing for their analysis of violence-creation.

b.

Quentyn Martell was a bit redundant. However, "irrelevant to the narrative" is simply false. With his death, we now anticipate how Dany is going to use or interact with the Martells if and when she ever lands on Westeros and searches for allies....the Martells being those who supported her brother in Robert's Rebellion and from whom Oberyn, the guy who tried and failed to exact revenge for Elia on the Mountain (another theme the OP ignores in their critique of GRRM presenting"bad writing"). It's almost as if the answer to Elia's justice is not going to come from male-on-male "honor" killing, even out of her brother's love so much as Dany having to reckon with her own family's decisions face to face. Apparently, this is not an exciting enough prospect.

It also goes into how the OP thinks how characters' deaths somehow, someway mean nothing in the plot or that GRRM uses expected unexpected death for no reason at all. Which, as I already showed, is untrue and an exaggeration.

So, ironically, by criticizing GRRM's use of character death, and his lack of blatant critique, the OP practices what I think is GRRM's real issue: a liberal lack of real critique on their own absolutes and exaggerations that undermine their credibility.

Let me reiterate: what makes ASoIaF problematic is the lack of perspective and paired over-exaggeration of some violence (most esp the sexual kind against women and girls) for the sake of emphasis that was already emphasized and to make a point that would have already been made without such "emphasis", thus normalizing such violence, even claiming it "necessary". The violence isn't "pointless" as much as it goes beyond the necessary and repeats itself with no relief or seeking hope w/o Dany's anticipatory and present critical role, thus it seems pointless.

Remember, this shit was written in the 80s-90s, published in the 90s, and is now being read and critiqued by people in 2023 who have gotten much more conscious of the need to critique the status quo...but also can themselves fall into reinforcing it when they do not choose to engage with the taboo text/moments with a more distanced lens. And GRRM is still a rich, liberal white man.

[miguel-manbemel]

Sanders Sides photocomics of the year 2024 (April-June)

April

Remus Is Upset (April 1, 2024)

Spite and Ambition (April 2, 2024)

Stress Outlets (April 3, 2024)

A New Baby's Coming (April 4, 2024)

For the Rest of my Life (April 5, 2024)

Hero Senses (April 6, 2024)

Is That a Telescope (April 7, 2024)

Giving Flowers (April 8, 2024)

Hippity, Hoppity (April 9, 2024)

The Paradox (April 10, 2024)

They're Hiding Something (April 11, 2024)

The Two Gatekeepers (April 12, 2024)

Face Down (April 13, 2024)

Think Positively (April 14, 2024)

Pigeons (April 14, 2024)

Why Sleep (April 16, 2024)

If Patton Was the Imposter (April 17, 2024)

Patton's New Book (April 18, 2024)

No More Humble Opinion (April 19, 2024)

Dis Dis (April 20, 2024)

I Never Brag (April 21, 2024)

Is This an Incorrect Quote? (April 22, 2024)

Logan Trying Slang (April 23, 2024)

Next Plan (April 24, 2024)

Virgil In His Sleep (April 25, 2024)

The Snake of Love (April 26, 2024)

Fairytale Wedding (April 27, 2024)

Here Comes a Janus Thought (April 28, 2024)

20 Questions (April 29, 2024)

Virgil Sent Home (April 30, 2024)

May

Put Them in a Boat (May 1, 2024)

Is This Going to Be Dangerous? (May 2, 2024)

Can I Be Frank? (May 3, 2024)

Get Accepted, They Said (May 4, 2024)

Nothing to Eat (May 5, 2024)

I Can Never Tell (May 6, 2024)

Emotional Jumper Cables (May 7, 2024)

We Must Teach Them How to Cook (May 8, 2024)

I Can't Believe It! (May 9, 2024)

The Calculator (May 10, 2024)

I'm Immortal (May 11, 2024)

Koalas (May 12, 2024)

Virgil's Honest Truth (May 13, 2024)

I'm Not Drunk (May 14, 2024)

It's More Romantic (May 15, 2024)

The Taste of Lava (May 16, 2024)

The Doubt (May 17, 2024)

Dunno If He'll Notice (May 18, 2024)

69 (May 19, 2024)

Getting Life In Order (May 20, 2024)

What Is Sleep (May 21, 2024)

Could I Borrow Him Forever? (May 22, 2024)

The Greatest Lovers in History (May 23, 2024)

What Happened Upstairs? (May 24, 2024)

I'm Cold (May 25, 2024)

Where's my Mace? (May 26, 2024)

A Million Things to Do (May 27, 2024)

That's My Opinion (May 28, 2024)

10 Things I Hate (May 29, 2024)

Good Morning (May 30, 2024)

My Heart Beats Loudly (May 31, 2024)

June

Don't Toy With Me (June 1, 2024)

Where Is Patton? (June 2, 2024)

The Fridge (June 3, 2024)

When I'm Around Roman (June 4, 2024)

Odyssey (June 5, 2024)

Alphabetical Plans (June 6, 2024)

Don't Tell Anyone (June 7, 2024)

The Letter Puzzle (June 8, 2024)

Knowing Protocol (June 9, 2024)

Something Weird (June 10, 2024)

You're Too Flirty (June 11, 2024)

Siblings (June 12, 2024)

Love Is Pointless (June 13, 2024)

My Favorite Kind of Science (June 14, 2024)

The Gaslighter Joke (June 15, 2024)

Sun Is Up (June 16, 2024)

Please, Don't, Patton (June 17, 2024)

Aphrodite or not Aphrodite (June 18, 2024)

Trust Me (June 19, 2024)

We Had Fun (June 20, 2024)

The Calendar (June 21, 2024)

Virgil Chose Dare (June 22, 2024)

If I Said It (June 23, 2024)

Breaking Logan Bad (June 24, 2024)

The Toy in the Cereal (June 25, 2024)

Reverse Psychology (June 27, 2024)

A Thing With Spiders (June 27, 2024)

While I'm Gone (June 28, 2024)

Dolphins (June 29, 2024)

Don't Wait for Me (June 30, 2024)

RETURN TO MASTER POST

[browneyesandhair]

Incorrect Bridgerton Quotes Colin: Does it bother you? Penelope: Does what bother me? Colin: Does it bother you that you’re … single? Penelope: Sometimes, but just like George has value outside his romantic prospects, so does my life, my ambitions, and me. So, while I’d like to be in a relationship one day, I’m not going to sacrifice any of my current priorities to try to chase one down.

Insp: AIITLR

[radicheart-a]

✏️ @dark-ambition (Sir Pentious)

Incorrect Quotes Generator

Alastor: I don't need to go to bed. I'm not tired, I'll be fine. Sir Pentious: But, darling, I'll be so lonely without you. Come curl up in my arms so I can feel whole again. Alastor: O-oh. Well. Are you trying to seduce me into healthy sleeping patterns?? Sir Pentious: Is it working?

Sir Pentious: What’s the straightest thing you’ve ever done? Alastor: sighs Alastor: I killed a man.