#also where are people getting the idea of a redemption arc look?

[sammywolfgirl]

I for one am okay with my pre corruption shadow milk design being probably non cannon anymore but I like to propose a compromise for those who are still attached to their own pre corruption shadow milk designs (and this might have evidence???)

The beasts style/look changed before they fell.

Ie- the closer shadow milk got to falling the more jester elements he added. Or at least changed up his look.

So the new costume? Cannon look, the design seen in the gacha? Also cannon. Shadow milk maybe was the most obvious about it since he shapeshifts and I can see even pre corruption shadow milk playing around with his look (but maybe he got way more intense about it closer to falling)

But also the evidence(??) I have is via burning spice. In the reveal trailer the silhouette of burning spice pre corruption looks different than the herald of change (I forgot the exact wording) we see in the cutscene.

Two reasons for this. 1) devs just did a soft recon of the design between the production of that reveal trailer and the cutscene

2) the beasts look changed the closer they got to falling, and as we see the moment burning spice breaks in that cutscene, I’m willing to bet on this idea.

But hey that’s just my two cents.

[tizeline]

1-I've fallen in love with your Tiz Sep AU, especially how you made Mikey the problem child with the hardest redemption arc out of the 4, because normally it's not Mikey who gets that role (Cause he'll always be a sweet kid no matter what dimension or universe or faction he's in<3), so I'm really interested to see how Sep Mikey and Sep Donnie finally reconcile and become closer<3<3<3<3

I'm glad you're enjoying the AU :D! And I'm still trying to figure out how the events of the movie is gonna go down in the AU, but so far this is what I've come up with (though keep in mind this is subject to change)

So it's during season 2 that all that drama between Mikey and... basically everyone else in his family gets really intense, but he does end up mostly reconciling with Leo, Raph and Draxum during the season 2 finale (don't know the details yet, just that it's gonna happen). With that character development, Mikey also grows more accepting towards humans, he still doesn't like them but he's also not trying to destroy them all so that's something!

But Mikey and Donnie just can't seem to get along, in the time leading up to the invasion they're just stuck in this constant state of animosity. Raph and Leo certainly try to mediate, but it's almost like Mikey and Donnie don't want to get along. It's kinda one of those situations where it doesn't really matter why two people started fighting, cuz now they're been fighting for so long and about so many things that it feels impossible to even try to make peace.

So then The Foot get the Key, which in the AU happens because Donnie and Mikey can't stop fighting for two fricking seconds and they screw up the mission. And then each of them blame the other for the mission going wrong, which just gets worse when Casey Jr shows up and warns them about the Krang and goddam these two are being annoying. STILL! Despite their less than ideal relationship, they have started genuinely care about each other, and they both feel guilty about losing the Key, so when Mikey sees an opportunity of getting the Key back he goes for it (like canon!Leo did). And when Donnie sees that Mikey is about to get fucking skewered by the Krang, he jumps in front of his little brother and shield him with his own body (like canon!Raph did).

The story from here on out is not as thought out, but needless to say Donnie gets captured and "krangified". I'm kinda thinking that instead of the Krang just making him a soldier like Raph was, they instead hook Donnie up to the Technodrome or something? And after being freed from the Krang's control, maybe Donnie can still take control of the Technodrome himself to pilot it back through the portal. Cuz ya know, they still need a way to send it back into the prison dimension and the other turtles can't connect to the TD because of their hard shells. I did have an idea of potentially making April pilot the thing lmao, but I also have a headcanon that the only reason Donnie could pilot the TD at all was because he has some Krang DNA in him (empyrean), which April obviously doesn't. So Donnie will still probably be the one to send the TD back into the prison dimension.

In the AU, I imagine that Leo and Raph are still kinda dealing with the whole leadership-issue throughout the invasion haha. It's not nearly as dramatic and hostile this time around, don't worry! But I love the idea of Leo and Raph becoming co-leaders, only problem is that they're still trying to figure out what exactly that looks like for them. It not a huge issue when they're doing small-scale missions, but with how intense and stressful the invasion is, they're kinda struggling figuring out how exactly their dynamic should look like.

But back to Mikey, he obviously feels guilty as fuck over Donnie sacrificing himself for him and he's not handling very well. Mikey having lost access to his mystic powers is also really getting to him considering how heavily he relies on them. Leo's drama with Casey Jr in the movie is in the AU replaced with Mikey's drama with Casey Jr. Mikey is initially pretty cold towards CJ just because he's human, when Donnie gets taken Mikey decides to direct his hurt and anger at CJ because... well... he's human! And he didn't properly warn them about the Krang! So obviously it's somehow his fault that Donnie got taken! Somehow! It's very weird for CJ to interact with pre-character-development-Mikey acting like a petty brat about the whole situation, he's hurt by it but also quickly just grows very annoyed at Mikey's hostility towards him. And then we get That One Scene where CJ yells at Leo to get his shit together, except of course this time it's him yelling at Mikey haha.

Anyway, then Mikey DOES get his shit together, and he manages to help Donnie break free of the Krang's control by giving this big heartfelt speech about how he's sorry about how he has been acting and he wants to befriend Donnie and become real brother, you get it. But Mikey still feels guilty about everything that has happened, and to add on to that he still kinda has main character syndrome lol. Point is when Raph, Leo and Donnie all get knocked out of the fight and it's only Mikey against Krang One, he pretty quickly decides to sacrifice himself if it means defeating the Krang. It goes down pretty similarly to how Leo did it in canon, Mikey can fly so he lures Krang One into the prison dimension and is able to restrain him there long enough with his chains to convince CJ to close the portal.

So then the question is - how the HELL does he get out of there??? Mikey opened up the portal in canon, which is gonna be hard for him to do in the AU if he's being beaten within an inch of his life by Krang One haha. But I do think I've figured it out, so Leo and Raph at this point in the story have unlocked their Hamato Ninpo but Mikey hasn't, because their Ninpo is fueled by like... the connection to their family, and Mikey doesn't feel very connected to his Hamato ancestry before this obviously. But what if this is the moment where he doesn finally unlock his Ninpo! After both Donnie and Mikey proved their dedication to each other through their sacrifices, Mikey finally feels connected to the Hamato family. The way I imagine this scene is that it's not just Mikey creating the portal, his brothers are reaching out to him with their Ninpo and Mikey is able to reach back, even while in different dimensions. They're able to establish a familiar connection and because of that a litteral connection is formed through the portal, and Mikey is brought home.

Lastly I wanna talk about Donnie, specifically the uh. Injury he gets from the Krang when he shields Mikey. I actually drew this really quick sketch of that moment a while back but I never posted it here so I might as well do it now! It's not super gory or anything, but Donnie's shoulder got a little but fucking impaled and also there's blood so I'm putting it underneath the read more thing

Haha remember when I said this this AU was gonna stay mostly silly goofy? Teehee!

Anyway, I can't really decide if I wanna make Donnie just lose his enitre arm after this because lol. Lmao. But the reason Donnie doesn't like die from blood loss right after this moment is because the Krang goop is sealing up the injury, both when he first gets captured and interrogated, as well as during the time when he's under Krang control. After he's freed, he's mostly only able to help in the fight by piloting the Technodrome up partway through the portal, maybe he's able to like act as support in the fight against Krang One by using his Ninpo? But yeah no he basically gets benched as soon as his brothers get him back because he's still quite injured.

But look on the bright side, Mikey and Donnie both being on bedrest after the invasion gives them PLENTY of time to bond! :D Like sure, they showed how far they're both willing to go for each other during the invasion, but they've still got a lot of bad blood to sort out afterwards and them both being stuck in medbay kinda forces them to deal with their problems haha. So yeah, while the invasion is the catalyst for them making peace, it's mostly during their recovery that they properly bond with each other. (Prepare for B-Team cuddles, it WILL happen!)

And you asked about specifially when Donnie loses his immunity towards Mikey's puppy dog eyes, and I'd imagine it's during their recovery. Not only because they're growing closer, but also because his baby brother is INJURED and SUFFERING and to Donnie's horror he quickly realizes that he is unable to say no to Mikey now haha XD

HOOBOY that's basically everything, I still have to figure out a lot of the details, but writing this all down made me realize that I've figured out way more of the plot than I initially thought, so that's nice!

[linkspooky]

Ciel-Noel post

Revenge is bad, actually. Simple revenge in stories is boring and uninteresting and Kill Bill is a bad movie.

I dislike the idea of punitive justice in stories to begin with, at least in stories that don't look critically at it. However, I also think people often get punitive justice (a branch of moral philosophy) with the idea of narrative punishment (actions have consequences in stories). I'm not against narrative punishment at all, well-written stories should have direct consequences for all the important characters actions. If a character is a noble gas and no one reacts to their actions, then they are stagnant and unchanging. A character who is constantly reacting to other people, and provoking reactions in return, is a dynamic character.

Now that I've thoroughly buried the lead six feet under, let's get to the main event. Ciel and Noel is a tightly written tragedy in the horror genre. If you've ever watched a slasher movie before, horror operates on like, an extreme kind of narrative punishment. People always joke that if you have sex, or do drugs, or drink alcohol in a horror movie the slasher will kill you and yeah, that's basically it. Horror movies are relenting and unforgiving, you basically take one step out of line and get stabbed in the back for it. So, it's not at all surprising that in the same story where Ciel experiences a change of heart and goes from seeing Shiki not as a victim but another vampire to kill, to being willing to sacrifice everything to save him, Noel does not get saved. Doesn't that make Ciel a huge hypocrite going the extra mile to save her boyfriend, but putting a bullet in the head of the partner she's known for years to put her out of her misery? Why, yes. Yes it is. That's also the point.

Ciel (and Noel's) route in the Tsukihime remake are about two girls who are the victims of the same tragedy. One gets saved, one does not. One finds a person who will do anything to reach and redeem their humanity, the other does not. They both get worse and worse, but one is given a helping hand at their lowest point, and the other gets a bullet between the eyes. This is unfair, and cruel, and again the point. Nasu in the remake turned one of the routes with the happier ending into a bitter tragedy no matter which of the two endings you pick and it's great.

Nasu is a writer who understands the tools of storytelling and with Ciel and Noel, wrote a tightly constructed tragedy where both characters face a narrative punishment. Once again, narrative punishment means for every action the character takes in the story, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Characters don't get away scott free with anything. They reap what they sew. This gives the characters actions meaning, and feels like they are building towards an arc because there is an underlying point that the author is trying to make to us, by framing these characters actions in a certain light.

Nasu employs narrative punishment, sometimes even incredibly harsh narrative punishment (read every wrong choice in FSN where Shirou gets horribly maimed or just Shirou's life in general). However, Nasu does not believe in punitive justice. I mean, I made a joke about Oberon up above but like, Nasu literally wrote an entire FGO Lostbelt chapter showing how chaotic evil the fairies were, and then he still underlined it's wrong to punish people without a chance for redemption or atonement by making Oberon the final boss. Even Castoria who is an ultimate victim of the fairies who was locked in a barn and treated like an animal, and didn't even want to save them was still like "This is wrong, we should have given them some chance to redeem themselves."

That belief that punishment without the chance of redemption is wrong, is written into the core of Ciel and Noel's tragedy.

So anyway, let's get to the part where I start recapping the story with analysis so you guys have some frame of reference for what I'm talking about. Noel is a previous victim of Roa, a vampire that continually reincarnates by hijacking bodies. A victim of ROA slowly becomes possessed until the two personalities effectively merge, at which point Roa goes on a killing spree. This happened to Ciel in her french village, Ciel noticed intrusive thoughts of a voice in her head telling her to kill her family, kill her family, kill her family, and did her best to ignore and suppress them until she couldn't. She then tore out her parent's throats, and then went on a rampage only to be killed by arcueid a short while after. Not before killing basically everyone in the town except for Noel.

Ciel and Noel are the lone survivors of ROA's massacre, and both victims of ROA himself. Ciel and Noel are also the same person, so like, write that down. Are you taking notes? This is gonna be a long post you better be writing down bullet points. Big bullet point number one, Ciel and Noel are the same person this is going to be on the test later.

Is the massacre, and all the deaths that occurred Ciel's fault?

No, you'd think logically being possessed by someone else and only having your agency taking away from you would clear you from responsibility.

However, Ciel was taken in by the catholic church afterwards and they weren't having any of that forgiveness shit. Ciel after miraculously recovering from her death at Arcueid, no longer under Roa's possession, is killed repeatedly by the church, only to find she's immortal now. No matter how many times they try to torture her, or execute her to give her justice for the victims of the massacre it doesn't work. So, instead they eventually just recruit her to be a vampire hunter. Bla bla bla, metaphor for how punitive justice doesn't actually accomplish anything, bla bla bla, metaphor for how Ciel's way of redeeming herself by hunting down and punishing other vampires (which is also just revenge) doesn't work because there's no end to it, there's no forgiveness or absolution, it's just eternal suffering. Would a loving god who created the world and preaches about forgiveness really make a hell where all the really bad people get sent to, and never get any chance of redemption?

“A God who could make good children as easily a bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave is angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell--mouths mercy, and invented hell--mouths Golden Rules and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!” ― Mark Twain, The Mysterious Stranger

So, already we're touching on both justice, and also the hypocrisies of certain western religions, by Nasu demonstrating that justice without forgiveness accomplishes nothing. Ciel trying to redeem herself in the eyes of the church is truly the sisyphus pushing the boulder up the hill of redemption arcs, because there's no forgiveness, only hard labor for her sins. Ciel will just keep killing vampires to atone until she dies, but she can't die, so that boulder will keep rolling up that hill.

This is the underlying point of Ciel's entire arc, Ciel does not save anybody. She kills vampires. By killing vampires she hypothetically stops them from killing future victims, but that's not saving them. One of the most poignant things I've ever read from Nasu was from UBW where Shirou says more or less if there's a bank robber holding up a bank, and a cop comes in and shoots the robber through the chest, that might save all the hostages but the bank robber didn't get saved. You might say, well obviously, you can't save everyone. It makes sense that you'd save the innocent victims first. At which point I would say yes, I know, I have in fact consulted the ancient texts, UBW is my most replayed route.

However, Ciel and Noel's conflict gets that same point across because there are no innocent victims between the two of them. Ciel and Noel are both victimized, robbed of their agency, and go on to do terrible things, but one of them is saved and one is not. Noel isn't the bank robber in that metaphor, she's the hostage who was cooperating with the bank robber because the robber had a gun to her head, who the swat team decided to snipe through the window.

Noel is introduced as an entirely new character in the remake, she is the only other survivor of the massacre. While Ciel has memories of herself committing the crimes and feels guilt for that, Noel watched everyone die and was tortured for days on end by Roa in Ciel's body for their amusement (someone who was so insignificant to them, that Noel refers to herself as just one chip in a bag of chips Roa was snacking on. That's right, Noel is a cheeto in the grand scheme of things). There is one quote I love from John Dies at the End where John talks about how they're not chess pieces, they're not pieces on the board, they're so insigificant that they're just a cheeto sitting on the outside of the board. That's Noel, she's a cheeto.

The thing is Noel seems to be somewhat narratively aware of the fact that in the grand scheme of things she is a cheeto. Noel and Ciel are both victims of the massacre turned vampires, Ciel is a vampire killing machine and Noel sucks at it. Ciel despite being some rando apparently is born with enough magic circuits to make ancient magus families jealous, and on top of that is the only one who ever survived Roa's possession (and got immortality to boot). In every generation there is a chosen one, she alone will stand against the vampires and the demons and the forces of darkness. She is the slayer. So you've got Ciel the Vampire Slayer, and Noel who's just a cheeto. The cosmically ordained protagonist of reality, and just some guy. Noel has to basically beg and scrape to get by, no matter how hard she works she doesn't get stronger, she doesn't get any cool super powers from the night roa burned down her home town she just gets trauma. She also doesn't get a special boyfriend who will do anything to try to give her a normal life. This is illustrated in true tragic irony, by showing that Noel had a crush on a japanese foreign exchange student who's clearly meant to foil Shiki and he was basically the support she leaned on for the entirety of the tragedy, he dragged her away from danger multiple times, only to find out the reason he saved her was to use her as zombie bait so he could make his escape.

Here's where Noel starts to shine because in a typical narrative, Noel would be the more sympathetic character. People like rooting for the underdog. However, Nasu dares to be different by making Noel extremely difficult to empathize with. For one she's extremely predatory in the way she makes constant uncomfortable advances on Shiki the main character. She's also predatory in the sense she enjoys preying on things weaker than her. She says it line for line, weak people have to pick on those weaker than them. Noel goes after small fry vampires for revenge, and to vent her frustrations, however, she doesn't just kill them she rips them to pieces and tortures them in the most inhumane way possible until they're begging for death.

Why would anyone sympathize with the weak, predatory, pathetic noel who only ever makes excuses and blames others to run away from responsibility, over the stoic, strong ciel who is willing to hunt vampires forever to take responsibility for her actions.

Well here's the thing, *gestures for you to come closer, and then whispers in your ear* all the shit that Noel pulls, Ciel does that too. Ciel and Noel are either the same age, or around the same age, so if Noel is a predator for hitting on Shiki than so is Ciel. It's almost like something happened to them in their youths that stopped all their mental development rendering them both like mentally 16. Noel mercilessly slaughters vampires for revenge, and so does Ciel. She just does it offscreen. We don't know if she tortures them or anything, but remember when Ciel hunts Shiki, how she knows that Shiki is a helpless victim in all this and still goes out of her way to twist the knife, hurt him both physically and emotionally in every way possible before making the final blow.

The reason she acted that way during her and Shiki's confrontation isn't because she was stoically forcing herself to kill Shiki because that was the right thing to do, no she was projecting herself and her survivor's guilt for not killing herself before Roa went on his massacre all over Shiki. She was getting her revenge on a helpless victim because projecting on Shiki was a way for her to punish herself. Noel hates herself for being weak, Ciel hates herself for not being strong enough to slit her throat before everything happened (ergo being weak). They both deal with this self hatred by projecting that onto vampires, even vampires who were turned against their will (especially those ones tbh) and slaughtering them. They were both taken in by the church and taught to do that, so the church could get two child soldiers to send to die fighting vampreis. Ciel is Noel, and Noel is Ciel.

Not only does Noel project her past self and her weaknesses onto vampires, she projects herself onto Ciel. In that Noel really wants to be Ciel. Which is understandable, would you rather be, a girl who's only super power is... having an axe, or a girl with like seventeen million cool weapons, has more mana circuits than most mages, and is fucking immortal.

That's just the surface though, Noel is on like fifteen levels of projection with Ciel. Noel's identity is incredibly tied up in her complicated feelings towards Ciel, both because Ciel is the face of the person who committed every atrocity to Noel, but also because they are the two lone survivors of the same tragedy. Noel and Ciel both try to make themselves into tools for killing vampires to cope with their survivor's guilt, and their inability to conceive of themselves having a normal life after what they have been through. They also were both denied any chance at healing, because the church swept in and fashioned them into hunting dogs to sick on the vampires, and fight those vampires until they die. They are also both convinced that the church is right for doing this, and that deep down they either cannot have (Noel) or do not deserve (Ciel) normal lives while they both secretly pine for it anyway. Both of them are denied the chance for recovery, (because revenge does not heal), and Noel takes that one step further by deliberately driving a wedge into Ciel's recovery.

To quote you Comun, even though you're the one that sent this ask:

And Noel is a character inserted in Tsukihime to thwart Ciel's steady recovery. A constant reminder of what she lost and how the blood is in her hands. To cope with the sins Roa used her body for, Ciel chose to be the Holy Church's most professional extermination machine. Noel is the only survivor of her village because Elesia also died that night, being replaced with Ciel, who is fueled not by emotions but by a vampire kill count. And while Noel is a petty bitch at heart, she genuinely believes Ciel's post-trauma life choice and respects her capability to pull it off. There's no sabotage to their partnership not because Noel is afraid to defy someone a million times stronger than her, but because Noel wholeheartedly agrees with Ciel's choice to never recover and to pay blood for blood for the rest of her potentially eternal life. As long as Ciel stays Ciel, Noel's vengefulness is directed solely at Roa. But then Shiki enters Ciel's life bringing with him semblances of normal happiness. The murder machine began to regain emotions. And to Noel, that's a problem.

So part of this is you know, buying church propaganda. Ciel and Noel are both victims of the same church that does not heal or save people, and only doles out punishments on the guilty.

Part of this is an interesting twist that adds complexity to Noel's character, because like she could blame Ciel for the massacre like the church does, and like Ciel does herself, but as you point out Noel clearly wrestles with that. Noel feels a mix of envy for a twisted respect, one could even say love for Ciel's strength. Noel shows a much more nuanced reaction to Roa wearing Ciel's face and killing her entire family and torturing her for days on end, when she could take the church's approach, or even Ciel's approach towards Shiki. Noel even talks about at length how her and Ciel used to bond together by talking at night about how they were going to get revenge for everyone who died that day. Noel can't just see Ciel as the villain who took everything away from her, because they are the only two survivors of the massacre.

As you said there's no sabotage to their partnership, because despite Noel being the most petty bitch ever she never does anything to hurt or betray Ciel. The reason their partnership falls apart is entirely Ciel's fault. Sure, Noel was dancing on the edge of a cliff and not the most stable person to begin with, but it's Ciel's actions that push her off that cliff.

Not only does Noel drive thwart Ciel's recovery, she also makes Ciel look like a terrible person. Because, Ciel is a terrible person. In the same route where Shiki constantly lovebombs Ciel and constantly talks about all her good traits and what a hero she is, and Ciel gets several very cool action scenes making her look like a cool vampire slayer, we also witness to Noel's soul and heartcrushing downward spiral that is caused in part by Ciel kind of not really giving a shit about Noel's feelings. Noel's downfall could have been stopped at any point by Ciel simply lifting a finger, or just noticing her partner's obvious distres but instead what Ciel does is Noel completely out of the loop (like not telling Noel that she was waiting for Roa to reveal himself before attacking Shiki) .

Like, the scene where Noel turns into a vampire is directly caused by Ciel's actions. Noel reveals to Shiki that he's currently possessed by Roa. Ciel stands up for Shiki, in what we think is Ciel not wanting to believe that Shiki is possessed by Roa. However, what we learn instead is that Ciel only approached Shiki in the first place because she assumed he would be Roa's first target, and has been keeping by his side constantly waiting for Roa to appear so she can murk him.

So, all Ciel needed to do was TELL NOEL that she was playing the long game and ask Noel to wait a little longer before showing their hand, but apparently basic communication with her partner is too much effort for Ciel.

This leads into a scenario where not only does Noel think Ciel has broken their partnership (i mean she kinda has) but Ciel directly injures Noel pretty badly and leaves her alone. When Arach shows up to prey upon Noel, Noel can't even fight back by that point. Arach is the bus that hit Noel, but Ciel sure did throw Noel under that bus for no real reason.

I mean there is a story reason - it shows that Ciel may be an instrument of justice but she doesn't save people, in fact she does not give two figs about whether or not people are saved by her actions. Ciel obsessively hunting vampires, is not really that far off from Noel torturing vampires for her own sense of petty vengeance. However, Ciel hunts vampires offscreen so we as an audience don't see really the way, she treats the vampires she kills, but from the way she both foils Noel and also the sadistic way she draws out killing Shiki possessed by Roa as long as possible you can infer that she's not all too different from Noel. That's good actually, that Ciel seems like a good heroic person, but if you squint at her she's not much better than Noel, because like that's the entire point of her character the good, altruistic senpai never existed in the first place. All of Ciel's words about atonement and forgiveness are empty platitudes, just her regurgitating the words the church fed to her.

So finally to conclude, we have the culmination of the moebius strip, where Noel the apparent opposite of Ciel, slowly morphs into Ciel. Noel's flaws in a narrative sense led to her downfall, but let's be clear Noel had no fucking agency in her transformation into a vampire. She was hysterically begging for Arach not to do it. She was pinned and helpless to escape when it happened. It is Arach and Ciel's fault what happened to her.

Noel does make choices, but her choice amounts to not immediately killing herself the moment she became a vampire. She does take like 500 shots to become an ubervamp, but like, the story clearly states that once people become vampires their moralities and personalities are radically altered. So if that's a choice it's an influenced choice.

Therefore the only choice in that moment Noel is truly responsible for is not killing herself while she was still lucid. Irony upon ironies because that's exactly what she yells at vampires to do, bow down and let their heads be cut off by the executors. However, if Noel is guilty for not immediately offing herself, so is Ciel, so is Shiki. Both of these characters get saved while Noel gets old yeller'd. This is unfair and also, you guessed it, the point. Ciels revenge against vampires accomplishes nothing. Noel giving up her humanity for the shot at revenge against Ciel accomplishes nothing. It's almost like revenge doesn't heal, it just puts more pain and misery into the world. No one is saved by revenge.

Noel is fridged for Ciel's arc, and neither Ciel nor Shiki ultimately save her even though she's not all that responsible for her own downfall. This is not the narrative playing good victim and bad victim. If anything it makes Ciel look way worse as a person. The narrative even goes out of its way to say that both Ciel and Noel have a right to their revenge and in a situation like this the winner wasn't determined by who was right but who's stronger. Ciel has no moral high ground she just happens to be stronger, that's it. She doesn't take the higher road with Noel even after Shiki went to such great length to try to reach her emotionally and tell her she was still human, no Ciel makes no attempt to talk to Noel or take a third route she just murks her.

Noel is my favorite character for this route probably second favoeite overall behind Kohaku and I one hundred percent agree with fridging her, because it makes Ciel's character a hundred times better by giving her consequences for her flaws. It's one thing for Ciel to break down crying about how much she hates herself for being a cold merciless machine. It's another thing to have this demonstrated by Ciel letting her partner fall to the wayside by just not giving a shit about anyone's feelings or anything except for her personal quest against vampires.

Noel is a victim of the cycle of revenge, a pointless and harmful cycle. In a story that's thoroughly anti revenge as evidenced in the true end of hisuis route where Kohaku having achieved absolute perfect revenge and having her plan gone entirely right, takes a knife and gouges out her own heart with it. If that's not on the nose I don't know what is.

Its poignant comun that you told me that Nasu stated there's no good ending to Ciel's routes just a normal and a true because a good ending would have saved Noel. It might look like Ciel got off scott free but if you look at it, by killing Noel and denying Noel the chance at salvation Ciel damns herself too. Ciel has not escaped the cycle in the true ending, she's still hunting vampires at the behest of the church the only real change is she has a boyfriend now. I'd compare it to the ending of UBW vs Heavens Feel. In one Shirou has Rin's support but it's implied he'll eventually leave Rin anyway and become Archer, he just won't regret saving people as Archer did. He has not escaped the self destructive cycle. Whereas in Heaven's Feel, Shiro dies and is reborn and has to you know live as a person from now on.

Ciel did not end the cycle, she perpetuated it by killing Noel. You don't end the cycle of revenge with more revenge. Since Ciel did not end it she's still trapped in the cycle herself, and she still has support in the form of Shiki but the cycle will probably consume her the way it eventually consumed Shirou. She even broke out what was essentially the UBW with black keys when fighting against Vlov. It's just like that one post on Twitter said every few years or so someone reinvent the unlimited blade works!

[crispyanonart]

With your previous SamSeb post of them being the coolest uncles ever i was wondering

Did Maru and Sebastian have a redemption arc? As I mean they have a better sibling ship as they got older? How would you see that progression? 👀

Thank you sm for these questions, you gave me an excuse to talk about this �� it's a topic near and dear to my heart because I too grew up in a funky family situation so sibling relationships are my roman empire.

yap session below

My idea is that Sebastian's initial sentiments towards Maru were mainly born out of teenage angst which was truthfully more directed at their parents — in his eyes, she was merely a result of the relationship he resented so much. As people grow up, they often lose some of that pent-up anger, creating relationships that allow them to feel less insecure and misunderstood, and in turn, more open to understanding others too. I think this would be the case for Seb. He would start seeing Maru more clearly, finally recognizing who she is, rather than what she represented to him up until that point (she, like him, had no role in the family dynamic except being born into it). He would discover that he actually likes her a lot. Maru, on the other hand, probably always looked up to him but could never approach him first because Seb can be very intimidating. I picture her telling herself, "Maru, be cool!! How would Sebastian act??" because he would engage in all sorts of behaviors that she, being a "good girl," could never imagine partaking in (talking back to people??? Oh lord). I reckon she would also be often concerned for him and his habits — to be honest, she would probably be a better sibling to Seb than he ever was to her. Upon maturing and realizing this, Sebastian would definitely promise himself to make up for it and start acting like an actual older brother, the instinct to protect the younger person taking over.

A while back I posted what could be one of their first sincere attempts at an hangout x !!

While Maru already had great support from Demetrius, I imagine she would really flourish from this new dynamic, and she would grow into her feisty personality, finally realizing she does not need to be the good girl at all times but also that she can set her own example. As they get older their relationship would become more and more sincere, Maru would stop holding back and Seb would gladly accept the love that she's been trying to give him, and they both would heal and learn a lot from it. They would finally become a great support system for one another, I can't imagine a story where they don't end up getting along and doing good as a family 🥹 I need Sebastian to be obsessed with Maru's kid and spoil her rotten with all sorts of gaming equipment !!

Side tangent: I feel the need to say that I don't think either Robin or Demetrius are bad people, they are flawed individuals that could for sure do better at parenting but are far from the worst family in game. Let's not forget we can see the book "Practical Tips For First-Time Step-Dads" in Demetrius bookcase, the man is trying (which doesn't mean he's necessarily succeeding or that Seb's sentiments are less valid, but you get what I'm saying)

chat can you tell I've been in relational-systemic therapy before LMAOOO

[aceattorneygamesfan]

Yes, yes, I haven't finished my work, but Hey,do you know that AA had a collaboration with the Otome game Stand My Heroes, which is actually not so strange considering the two designers of the game, namely Tatsuro Iwamoto and Kumiko Suekane. Tatsuro Iwamoto worked on otome games, and Kumiko Suekane on BL manga. By the way, the characters of one of her works (Retsujou) remind people of Miles and Phoenix. Interestingly, it was thanks to her that Miles not only received everyone's favorite design, but also his character traits. You see, according to the idea of ​​the author of the game (Shu Takumi), Edgeworth was supposed to be a sad but irredeemable character who would never get any player's sympathy. But when he saw her comic for the first game about Miles' love for Steel Samurai (which was probably based on Miles' encounter with Will Powers in Episode 3), he decided to make him more cute, which led to his redemption arc. by the way, this is exactly what Shu talked about in an interview, where he said that Phoenix thinks Miles is cute. Also, during the work on JFA, the decision to "kill" Miles was caused by Shu realizing that it would be weird to call Miles a genius prosecutor if he kept losing to Phoenix. This is how Franziska was made as well as the idea for, in my humble opinion, the best episode in the series Farewell, My Turnabout. Although Takumi's favorite episode is actually Turnabout Big Top, which is kind of weird, but hey, are you even listening to me? I'm not done.I haven't even told you about the capcom heroes 2012 calendar which looks like a yaoi doujinshi and I'm almost sure that it was actually drawn by wait where are you going?

[idkplzhalp]

The Admin in TF2 comic 7 was so GLaDOS and Caroline (Portal) coded. Her character has made me tear up multiple times, there's such complexity to her I'm so upset.

(TF2 comic 7 spoilers)

Anyways. I think her arc is Caro/GLaDOS coded due to similar ways of keeping up this cold facade and then being the pettiest woman on the planet. GLaDOS' cut voice lines are so petty, I posted some earlier but like the way she tries to guilt Chell and makes stuff up... oh girl. And Admin put up a big fake idea of what she was doing and then turns out she's trying to keep one single guy alive for an event she cannot even remember.

They both are so focused on their goals and only do things to help themselves (though GLaDOS definitely gets more of a redemption, at least end of Portal 2). Admin only cared about Pauling & her team in comic 7 because of potentially having australium, then abandoned Pauling when she said no. GLaDOS sent the co-op bots out to rescue the humans, they saved them so she stopped using the robots, and only chose to use them again because she killed all the humans and had no one left to test. They both seem to get bored easily of whatever doesn't help their goals. Bored of anything outside of their path. An obsessiveness. GLaDOS because of the mainframe, it's built into her, and Admin because of wanting to get vengeance for her parents, which had spiraled into her full personality.

Pre-australium Helen was more Caroline in my mind, mainly in her appearance, but also the section about Zepheniah dying? The frame of Admins absolute apathy for life? She lost all her purpose now that he's dead and she feels like she didn't win.

The general story of getting so wronged by someone and basically traumatized into a different personality (Caroline -> GLaDOS -> PotatOS, Young Helen -> Pre-Australium Helen -> Administrator) is very similar. There's this spiral/shift that both of them had.

^ (Her appearance in these, like okayyyy slay girl you look just like Caroline (similarish hair & nose shape)).

^ The feelings that come from the panels of Admin are so strong, you can so easily read what state she's in. Caroline coded in my heart. The way the mansion is left uncared for while Admin sits depressed in bed was just. So emotional for me?

I don't think Caroline felt that way about Cave, the hatred Admin did for Zepheniah, as it was very implied they were besties at least for awhile (notably in scrapped voicelines from Cave about her). The hatred was more likely at the scientists, as they genuinely had no care for her (think about LabRat where they dehumanize GLaDOS and call her "it" during activation tests). Though I feel she'd hold the grief that Admin did for Zepheniah in a different way. Admin is grieving because her purpose in life since childhood was lost, she has no one to focus revenge on anymore once it settles in that Zeph' was dead forever. Caroline lost a friend and was forced into a fate she didn't want, mistreated by employees, left angry and isolated forever. She lived to be the highest assistant of Aperture, working as one for 40 years prior. So in a sense, her purpose was lost as well. We don't hear anything from the Caroline CEO era so I'd like to think she took a step back as she awaited her fate. She probably was barely keeping things together from the stress (though not to undermine how good at her job she was, I just think she'd be depressed for at least some of her CEO time). That's more headcanon territory though, and I wish there was a way we could get more confirmation on how she acted then.

Caroline wanted to live out the rest of her natural life, but it was forcibly cut short and turned into something else. Opposite end, Admin wanted to end her natural life and was forcibly kept alive. While Admin initially didn't want to live, she got stuck in a cycle of trying to spite this guy forever and it was for nothing, she ruined people's lives in the process (Mainly Pauling, ohhh she was so betrayed, someone SAVE HER).

Both were fated to live basically forever and forgot the reasons why they feel the way they do.. GLaDOS didn't remember Caroline/her being a human while Admin forgot how her parents died/that Zepheniah likely killed them.

They are wasting their time forever. GLaDOS is testing and evolving science for NO ONE but herself. Forever. She's alone. Implied to feel lonely in the Lego Dimensions song + her VA thinks so too. Eventually she'd run out of materials and there's no people left to either help her or torture her. Admin admits herself that her plan was a waste of a hundred years and for a moment she's sad. Such big efforts for something miniscule in the end!

TLDR, Both characters were mistreated at some point in life, causing them to became isolated from everyone around them. They're both self absorbed and manipulated everyone they knew for an objective that only mattered to themselves. They had no reason to be rational anymore and their hatred for normal life pleasures grew as they strayed farther from humanity.

And both are voiced by Ellen McLain, nicest woman on the planet. Wow. Thanks Valve.

Really gives same character different universe, doesn't it.

[wangxianficfinder]

I'm in the mood for...

July 31st

~*~

1. Hii I'm kinda new here but if you can help me it would be awesome!! So basically, I don't know if there really a fic like that exactly, but anything close is great. I'm looking for a fic where lan zhan locks wei ying (probably in the cloud recesses), and for some reason, wei ying can't see/has eye cover. The idea is based on the scene where lan zhan says he wants to take someone (wei ying) and hide this someone. Thanks a lot😁 @untamedlover

A Way Out by pinkquilts (E, 143k, WangXian, Angst with a Happy Ending, Living Together, Canon Divergence, Slow Burn, First Love, Locked In, Major Character Injury, Fluff, Sharing a Bed, Unresolved Sexual Tension, Unresolved Tension, Drunken Shenanigans, WWX misinterprets literally everything, Miscommunication, Mutual Pining, Eventual Smut, Fix-It, Injury) Lan Zhan takes an unconscious Wei Ying back to Gusu and locks him in a warded cottage in A Way Out so it's close to the request but not quite what they ideally wanted.

~*~

2. Hi! I would love recommendations for Wei Wuxian/Nie Mingjue if anyone has any! I loved “Better Things To Do With A Flute In Wartime” for the sexy times but mainly for the feeling like Nie Mingjue recognized that Wei Wuxian was more than just a troublemaker, he saw that Wei Wuxian was a strong, capable, smart man. Would love any recs people have for this duo! Thank you!

An Elegant Solution by giraffeter (E, 205k, niewangxian, canon divergence, arranged marriage, friends to lovers, fix-it, everyone lives au, courtship, polyamory, smut) unfortunately I don't have any nmj/wwx, it's nmj/wwx/lwj but I found the fic very enjoyable!

I’ll grow you a garden (in my fortress of stone) by Lyna_Mei (M, 16k, WIP, MingXian, Canon Divergence, CQL-Verse, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, Cultivation Sect Politics, Canon-Typical Violence, Implied/Referenced Rape/Non-con, Past Child Abuse, Self-Esteem Issues, Genius WWX, Inventor WWX, Not Jiang Family Friendly, JYL is Not Angelic, No MY redemption, Somebody Lives/Not Everyone Dies, Slow Burn, Age Difference, Sporadic Updates)

When Night Falls by aspiratixxn (M, 28k, MingXian, canon-divergent, depictions of war, mild nudity, Slow Burn)

~*~

3. hi there. this is an itmf request for baoshan sanren coming down from her mountain and claiming wwx as her grandson/disciple. in front of gentry would be great, but other instances are also welcome. thanks for all your hard work!

Become Tomorrow by ShanaStoryteller (Not rated, 39k, wangxian, BSSR/LY, Alternate Universe, a story full of tragic pining gays, and one chaotic gremlin, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, WWX is BSSR’s disciple)

Can't Tell Me Nothin by natacup82 (T, 35k, wangxian, Canon Divergence, Everybody Lives, Family Feels, Communication, BAMF Women)

🧡 Ghosts Shouldn’t by ShanaStoryteller (Not Rated, 15k, WangXian, Grief/Mourning, Canon Divergence, Angst with a Happy Ending)

🔒Through the Storm by marhikit (T, 33k, WangXian, WX/OMC, Not JC Friendly, Canon Divergence, Not Madam Yu Friendly, Not Jiang Family Friendly, WWX gets big siblings that love and adore him, JZX ends up with someone different, No Golden Core Transfer, Creepy JGS, JZX & WWX Friendship, WWX in a different sect)

~*~

4. Hi!! 👋🥰

It's me! I'm on vacation finally, I missed you all so much, but I couldn't read fanfics during my exams (it's too distracting). But now I'm free again, so I'm here to ask a ITMF! Yey!

Lately I'd like to read fanfics in which:

A) LQ discover about the absence of WWX's core and decides to help WWX and the Wens. And bring all of them to Gusu.

B) LQ discover about the abuse of Madam Yu and decides that WWX will stay in Gusu. (I love when this happens during the Cloud Recesses Study Arc, but it's ok if this happens in other moment).

I like happy endings, and I prefer when the good people live (Wens, JY, JC...) and only bad people dies. Long fics if it's possible, but shorts are ok too. No modern fics.

Thank you for everything! 🤟🥰💕 @wangxiansgirl

4A)

Righteous at a Cost by thunderwear (G, 21k, wangxian, LQR & WWX, Canon Divergence, Fix-It, no one dies, LQR finds out about WWX’s core, WWX and LQR are friends??, In My Fic?, its more likely than you think, LWJ in the bg like whats happening?, Fluff, WWX goes to Gusu, Mutual Pining, Golden Core Reveal)

Weep You No More, Sad Fountains by athena_crikey (T, 59k, WangXian, LXC & LWJ, LXC & JGY, Canon Divergence, Fix-it fic, Whump, Curses, Fever, Delirium, Stabbing, Loneliness, Confessions, LWJ's emotional repression, WWX giving everything as always, LXC realising sympathy is not support, LQR Being an Asshole) Not quite the request, since it's LXC who ends up inviting WWX & the Wens to come to CR, but iirc LQR grudgingly agrees the Wens need help & can stay? So may be close enough to scratch that itch

Discordant Rhapsody by nirejseki (T, 49k, LQR & WWX, wangxian, JC & WWX, WQ & WWX & WN, LWJ & LQR & LXC, canon divergence, fix-it, hurt/comfort, trauma, politics, protective LQR, protective LWJ, protective WWX, LQR centric, whump, angst) 4a similar. It's been a while since I read the fic so I don't remember if there's an eventually Golden Core reveal, but it's not the reason LQR has for inviting WWX and the Wen to the Cloud Recesses. But hopefully this is similar enough that the requester will enjoy it anyway.

No Strings Attached by stiltonbasket (G, 3k, WangXian, NieLan,Canon Divergence, Fix-It, LQR is a good uncle, Smitten LWJ, Golden Core Reveal)

Righteous and Devoted by thunderwear (T, 7k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Fix-It, Golden Core Reveal, LWJ's POV, Barely Any Pining, thanks lqr, Fluff, lots of fluff, Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies)

4B)

Lessons relearned by Iamnotawriter (T, 44k, WangXian, LQR & WWX, Not Madam Yu Friendly, Time Travel Fix-It, Angst with a Happy Ending, Canon-Typical Violence, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Inventor WWX, It Gets Worse Before It Gets Better, No Golden Core Transfer, YZY Bashing)

🔒🧡 rain falls and soaks into the earth series by RoseThorne (T, 57k, WangXian, WIP, Near Death Experience, Attempt Drowning, Madam Yu Bashing, Recovery, No war AU)

💙 Holding shreds by barisan (T, 5k, WangXian, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, No Sunshot Campaign, Body Swap, Not for sexy shenanigans, Chronic Pain, Hurt WWX, Hurt LWJ, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Abusive YZY, Bad Parent YZY, Bad Parent JFM, Good Uncle LQR, Hurt/Comfort, Medical Inaccuracies, POV WWX, Angst with a Happy Ending, Jiāng Family Bashing, Tooth-Rotting Fluff, Getting Together, Smart WWX)

🔒 Warming up (to him) by barisan (T, 9k, LQR & WWX, WangXian, Hypothermia, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, Temporary Character Death, Medical Inaccuracies, YZY Abuses WWX, JFM Bashing, pre-wangxian, Good Uncle LQR, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort)

~*~

5. Hello everyone! I am on the search for case fics which are spooky and creepy! The kind of thing you would want to read to set the mood for Halloween, but it is actually July and thunderstorming and the wind is howling and you want to curl up with a scary story and a cat on your lap. Preferably everyone lives in the end, but I am down for angst or temporary character death in the in between. Thank you!!

You are what you eat by deliciousblizzardshark (E, 17k, WangXian, Graphic Depiction of Violence, Major Character Death, Canon Divergence, Eldritch WWX, Horny LWJ, Body Horror, Possession, of a sort, Cannibalism, kind of, Mild Gore, Teeth, When the eldritch abomination possessing you is less of a pining idiot than you are, I did not expect there to be so much fluff when I started writing a fic about an eldrich horror, Fluff and Humor, Smut, LWJ is so fucking thirsty, Oral Sex, Anal Sex, Monster sex, Switching, Light BDSM, Rimming, Self-Lubrication, Seriousness treated Crackily, Implied/Referenced Torture, Dead WWX, Podfic Available) Eldritch horror!WWX

build me no shrines by occultings (microcomets) (M, 54k, WangXian, Slow Burn, Mutual Pining, First Time, Getting Together, Confessions, Sharing a Bed, Hair Washing, Sentient Burial Mounds, Case Fic, Post-Canon, CQL Compliant, Hurt/Comfort, Whump, Light Angst, Flashbacks, mild body horror, foot washing, Happy Ending, Non-Sexual Intimacy..., then sexual intimacy, playing fast and loose with mdzs lore, WWX learning to accept intimacy without deflection, occasional LWJ humor agenda, 🔒 [Podfic] build me no shrines by flamingwell)

in your skin by darkredloveknot (enheduane) (E, 10k, WangXian, Post-Canon, Pre-Relationship, Getting Together, Horror, Body Horror, Blood and Gore, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, Love Confessions, Non-Consensual Body Modification, kinda??, Reflections over death and self-worth, mentions of canon suicide, Near Death Experiences, 🔒 [Podfic] in your skin by flamingwell)

爱不释手; never let me go by yiqie (E, 68k, WangXian, Case Fic, Blood and Injury, Demons, Body Horror, [Podfic] 爱不释手; never let me go by argentumlupine)

lan wangji sees dead people by mountainrain898

~*~

6. Hi, I'm ITMF a fic where; (a) teenage wangxian meets adult wangxian maybe during cloud recess study arc and older wangxian time travel on purpose or accidentally and find themselves itn cloud recess (or something similar) (b) the other sects gather to plot against wei ying and they spy on burial mounds or find a way to view wei ying's memories (similar plot to seek and ye shall find) (c) do you know any au's where wangxian are professional gamers or play gaming competitions. @purplefuzzypickle

6A)

River Stones by littlesystems (M, 18k, WangXian, Time Travel, Post-Canon, Cloud Recesses Study arc, Junior Quartet, Oblivious WWX, Suffering LWJ, Voyeurism)

How did I end up with this Frozen Heart? by Grace_ShadowWolf (TaubeLePigeon) (T, 53k, WIP, WangXian, Time Travel, Fix-It, PTSD, Angst with a Happy Ending, YP!WWX, twin prides of yunmeng are horrified at the relationship between their future selves, YP!WWX has short hair, Canon Divergence, Self-Indulgent, wangxian get together early, Songfic, JC Bashing, LXC Bashing)

Timely by apathyinreverie (T, 8k, WangXian, Time Travel, Domestic WangXian, Fluff, Fix-It, Post-Canon, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, Mutual Pining, wwx is sunshine personified, Smitten LWJ, Genius WWX, Romance) I'll also throw in Timely which just has Lan Wangji's spirit traveling from his teen years to when he's married to Wei Wuxian.

6B)

💖 The Path by Seastar98 (Not Rated, 279k, WangXian, CQL Verse, Golden core reveal, Fix-it of sorts, Angst with a happy ending)

6C)

simping for hanguang-jun by defractum (nyargles) (T, 6k, WangXian, Modern AU, YouTubers WangXian, Fluff, Among us game, Streamer AU)

~*~

7. Hello, could you please recommend works where WY and LZ meet for the first time when they are older. For example over 30.

Thank you!

The Fault in Our Stars by Vamillepudding (T, 17k, WangXian, Modern AU, Getting Together, Romantic Comedy, Comedy of Errors, Misunderstandings, the title makes it sound like a cancer story, it's not a cancer story)

International Baby by AceBij (E, 21k, WangXian, Modern AU, Pilot!LWJ, CFO!LWJ, Regional Manager!WWX, CEO!LXC, CEO!JC, CFO!JYL, Secretary!WQ, Meet-Cute, baby!A-Yuan, baby!JL Mpreg, Anal Sex, Oral Sex, Carrier!WWX, Angst and Fluff and Smut, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Mild Hurt/Comfort, WWX's canonical breeding kink, LWJ's Canonical Breed WWX Kink, Communication, Implied/Referenced Sexual Harassment, It's only at the start and will not go into much detail, Love confessions)

Deep Dive by MimiSpearmint (E, 24k, WangXian, Modern AU, Twin Prides of Yunmeng Feels, Are Bad at Communicating, LWJ is a Panicked Gay, Therapy, Fluff and Humor, Getting Together, Angst with a Happy Ending, Career Ending Injuries, counsellor!lwj, give lwj friends agenda, background NieLan, Melbourne, Eventual Smut, Crack, Baby JL, domestic abuse is discussed but does not happen, Baby LSZ, Baby LJY, Anal Sex, Blow Jobs, Good Sex Practices, Implied Slight D/s, WangXian Have a Breeding Kink, Cameos by various minor characters)

Breathless by tiptoe39 (E, 69k, WangXian, Fashion & Models, Modeling, Getting Together, drunk lwj, Cranky LWJ, Model!LWJ, stylist!wwx, Happy Ending, WangXian Endgame, Angst with a Happy Ending, Fluff and Angst and then fluff again, Mustache-Twirling Villainy Just Off Camera, JYL Deals With So Much Brother Shit, LWJ Is Working Through His Own Shit, WWX is WWX, LWJ's Bunny Obsession, MianMian Is In Charge of Shoes, JC's Issues Have Issues)

不屈从于天 | not submitting to fate by starborst (E, 20k, WIP, WangXian, BAMF WWX, God!wwx, dream of red tower, Chinese Mythology & Folklore, but loosely based, there's a lot of oc characters & gods, Character Death, time skip, from when wwx was dead and also a god, lots of landscape description, it'll be really really slow paced) Technically it's god!WWX meeting reincarnated!LWJ bit if it's just about their relationship then this might fit! LWJ shows up at the end of chapter 3 and chapter 4 is basically just about their interactions in different situations. Might also fit for #10, seeing as LWJ is a reincarnation (I asked to make sure)

We Meet at the Thousandth Step by Admiranda, Rynne (T, 316k, WangXian, CSSR/WCZ, Canon Divergence, No Sunshot Campaign, CSSR & WCZ Live, Rogue Cultivator WWX, Different First Meeting, Night Hunts, Genius WWX, Inventor WWX, Plot, Romance, Drama, Fluff, Strangers to married, Unresolved Sexual Tension, Unresolved Romantic Tension, Everyone Lives, Developing Relationship, Minor Violence, Case Fic, Mystery, Flirting, WWX's Canon-Typical Flower Flirting, Arson, There Was Only One Bed, Getting Together, First Kiss, Meeting the Parents, Resolved Sexual Tension, Resolved Romantic Tension, WWX Is a Good Big Brother, New Relationship Bliss, Chinese Mythology & Folklore, Blood and Injury, Yiling siblings, Married WangXian, Honeymoon, Wangxian's Baby Fever) I can't remember how old Wei Ying & Lan Zhan are in We Meet at the Thousandth Step but I'm quite certain they're at least in their mid- to late-20s when they meet.

~*~

8. itmf a wangxian fic where Jin Guangyao is forced to apologize to Lan Xichen for tricking into helping with Nie Mingjue's murder. Preferably a fic where wangxian comfort him afterwards. Any lxc ship is OK (xicheng, nielan, xiyao), I just want Lan Xichen to get a proper apology and for jgy to acknowledge how truly messed up it was and accept responsibility for being an asshole to poor lxc (and nmj tbh)

~*~

9. Hello! For your next ITMF, could you find me some baby trapping fics please? Whether LWJ traps WWX or WWX traps him 🤗

(and I'd love you forever if you manage to find a fic where Lan Qiren think Wwx is baby trapping his precious cabbage and either it's all Part of LWJ's Plan or the baby was a mutual decision from the both of them)

Thank you!!

truly a love story for the ages by sweetlolixo (E, 4k, WangXian, Modern AU, Dark LWJ, Dark WWX, Alpha LWJ, Omega WWX, Dark!Wangxian, Power Couple, Happy Wangxian Ending, slight daddy kink, Humor, Crack, Pregnant WWX) Of course I gotta rec the mutual baby trapping fic

~*~

10. Do you have a comp fic of reincarnation? If not can you make this for next ITMF? (No comp as of yet though it is on the list! ~Mod L)

不屈从于天 | not submitting to fate by starborst (E, 20k, WIP, WangXian, BAMF WWX, God!wwx, dream of red tower, Chinese Mythology & Folklore, but loosely based, there's a lot of oc characters & gods, Character Death, time skip, from when wwx was dead and also a god, lots of landscape description, it'll be really really slow paced) (link in #7) Technically it's god!WWX meeting reincarnated!LWJ bit if it's just about their relationship then this might fit! LWJ shows up at the end of chapter 3 and chapter 4 is basically just about their interactions in different situations.

the recluse at the end of the moonlit path by beesinspades (T, 28k, WangXian, Modern AU, Reincarnation, Post-Canon, Jack of All Trades Artist WWX, Immortal! LWJ, Mutual Pining, Light Angst, Reunions, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Implied Sexual Content, Asexual Character, good vibes, [Podfic] the recluse at the end of the moonlit path by b_ofdale by Beria1021)

🧡 We Were Never Strangers by NeverEnoughWangxian (M, 36k, WangXian, Modern AU, Reincarnation, Modern Cultivators, POV WWX, (mostly), College Student WWX, Rogue Cultivator WWX, Immortal LWJ, Immortal LSZ, Dreams, Pining, Sharing a Bed, brief mentions of wwx's past death(s), WangXian.mp3, Getting Together, I guess getting back together technically, Happy Ending, Sexual Tension, Sexual Content)

🧡 All Old Things are New Again by The Feels Whale (miscellea) (M, 51k, WangXian, Reincarnation, Modern AU, canon still happened, extreme post canon, Sugar Daddy, Kink Negotiation, gentle dom!LWJ, canonical levels of consent play, Modern Cultivators, cultivators can recognize important people from previous lives, vaguely, this started out as a cute sugar fantasy and got just incredibly horny very fast, blame LWJ)

忘不了你的爱 (can't forget your love) by PorcupineGirl (G, 25k, WangXian, Time Travel, Modern with Magic, Modern Cultivators AU, Canon Divergence, Time Traveler WWX, discussion of canonical character deaths, a whole lot of handwaving, conveniently localized fires, Discussion of Canonical Suicide Attempt, mostly happy but slightly bittersweet ending)

Closer Than Eternity by Netrixie (T, 26k, WangXian, Modern AU, Reincarnation, an unhealthy addiction to starbucks, Immortals, cultivation is -kinda- commonplace, Self-Doubt, POV Alternating, Minor Original Character(s), Canon Compliant, Post-Canon, Temporary Character Death, Angst with a Happy Ending, not for jc fans, This is not a reconciliation fic)

Have We Met Before by thelastdboy (T, 7k, WangXian, POV WWX, Modern: No Powers, First Meetings, College/University, Reincarnation, Strangers to Lovers, Slow Burn, Getting Together, Developing Relationship, Love Confessions, First Kiss, CSSR and WCZ Live, WWX Has a Family, Older Sibling WWX, Queer Themes, Demisexual WWX, Parent-Child Relationship, Friendship, Heteronormativity, Pining WWX, Fluff, Madam Lan Lives)

living in my memory/living in my mouth by tardigradeschool (T, 32k, WangXian, Reincarnation, Canon Divergence, College/University, Modern with Magic, Hurt/Comfort, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Sharing a Bed, Nightmares, Light Angst, Epistolary, (sort of), POV Alternating, Mutual Pining, Friends to Lovers)

~*~

11. hi everyone! I am looking for modern cultivation aus where, this may sound redundant but ya know, cultivation is used in tandem with modern living. For example, I really liked in “The Shade of Old Trees” by Kryal how WWX used his cultivation to do sick tricks on a skateboard. Or in "Truth Will Out" by KizuKatana how the night hunts were filmed and uploaded to an internet forum. So yeah! Cultivation working with modern things, cool magic in tandem with modern science and tech. thanks tlm!!

speeding up my heartbeat by plonk (Not Rated, 24k, WangXian, Modern with Magic, Gyms) has cultivation specific gyms and sports, with WWX doing cultivator level parkour

🧡🔒Night of the Living History (an edutainment special!) by Aerlalaith (T, 51k, WangXian, Modern with Magic, Workplace Relationship, Fluff and Humor, Museums, living history, Some Plot, Slice of Life, Injury, a minor haunting) has cultivation working (or not, as the case may be!) alongside modern tech

A Different Yarn by donutsweeper (T, 1k, WangXian, Urban Fantasy, Yarn store AU, Modern with Magic, Modern Cultivation) it's really short but in it knitting and crochet is used for talismans

Hear a song this deeply by so_shhy (T, 87k, wangxian, modern cultivation, academia au, music, kid fic, action/adventure, canon-typical violence, canon-typical JGY behavior, slow burn, fluff & angst, happy ending) has modern cultivation history researcher LZ and municipal cultivation employee WWX working within (or not, on occasion!) modern day cultivation rules, laws, and customs

and so my heart beats wildly by lily_winterwood (E, 106k, WangXian, JYL/JZX, Modern Cultivation, Rivalry, Competition, Competition-Set Fic, Athletes, Multimedia, Miscommunication, frenemies to lovers, Rivals to Lovers, Slow Burn, Mutual Pining, Seemingly One-sided But Actually Mutual Pining, Oblivious WWX, Competitive Cultivation, Anal Sex, First Time, Angst with a Happy Ending, Olympics, Inappropriate use of an Olympic gold medal, Breathplay, Rough Sex, Food Porn, Tanabata, Lily's back on her Qixi bullshit, Switching, Bottom LWJ) has cultivation Olympics

~*~

12. Hi all! Im in the mood for Jiang yanli bashing! I want her to also be angry and entitled like Jiang Cheng and then get, well, bashed for it!

Dispersing Clouds by dreamingofcake (E, 283k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Genius WWX, Inventor WWX, Not Jiang Family Friendly, Abusive YZY, Canonical Child Abuse, Hurt/Comfort, Slow Burn, Eventual Sex, Implied/Referenced Self-Harm (Background Character), Background Character Deaths, child deaths, Canon JC, Good Uncle LQR, Accidental Baby Acquisition, Cultivation Sect Politics, Homophobia, Heteronormativity, Feelings Realization, WWX is Not Oblivious) I wouldn't say she's angry, but she very much expects WWX to be a doormat for the sake of keeping things how she is used to them being

Hua Xianle by Tiffany_Guinne (Not rated, 260k, hualian, wangxian, TGCF, canon divergence, not Jiang friendly, madam lan lives, WWX adopted by hualian, WWX with different name, overprotective hualian, hurt WWX, WIP) crossover with TGCF, Hualian raises WWX, plenty of Jiang bashing all around

~*~

13. for the in the mood for, may i have your most gutwrenching jiang cheng & wei wuxian sibling hurt/comfort please. preferably with reconciliation. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

ransom by alessandriana (G, 3k, JC & WWX, Hurt/Comfort, Dizziness, Fainting, Character is Injured while Protecting Another, Yunmeng Shuangjie, Yunmeng reconciliation, [PODFIC] ransom by Gwogobo) 

love lies beyond words by acrosticacrumpet (G, 4k, JC & WWX, Post-Canon, Whump, Angst, Hurt/Comfort, canon-typical dysfunctional relationships, Yunmeng Shuangjie Reconciliation, not a completed reconciliation but the beginning of one, Twin Prides of Yunmeng Feels, Self-Worth Issues, WWX's notoriously poor self-worth vs JC's legendary rejection sensitivity: FIGHT, painful conversations with a tasteful smidgeon of, Cuddling & Snuggling)

we’re starting at the end by Miss_Enthusiasimal (M, 92k, WangXian, JC & WWX, Time Travel, Canon Divergence, Implied/Referenced Suicide, Golden Core Reveal, Burial Mounds, Hurt/Comfort, Angst, Starvation, emaciation, Cannibalism, Self-Harm, Amputation, Suicidal Thoughts, Sunshot Campaign, let JZX and WWX be friends club)

JC and WWX's Get Along Sweater series by newamsterdam (T, 29k, JC & WWX, Trapped In A Closet, Cultivation as Plot Device, Reconciliation, Miscommunication, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Panic Attacks, Unresolved Emotional Tension, Novel Spoilers, Post-Canon, Canon-Typical Violence, Night Hunting, Ghosts, Action/Adventure, Brotherly Love, Complicated Relationships, Yunmeng Shuangjie)

In The Dark Right Now by phnelt (T, 10k, WangXian, graphic depictions of injuries, trapped in a cave, Near Death Experience, fatalistic thinking, established wangxian, Family Feels, mention of unnamed illness of an offscreen character, Nobody dies in this fic, Alternate Universe - Modern AU, jc and wwx are caved in and lan zhan talks to them through the radio, Hurt/Comfort) if modern AU is acceptable

~*~

14. For the next itmf, can you please recommend to me some fics where Jiang Cheng raises both Jin Ling and Wen Yuan . Preferably where both or at least A-yuan knows his father is Wei Wuxian

What Remains After the War by Swan_Song (T, 44k, JC & JL, JC & LSZ, JL & LSZ, WIP, Canon Divergence, LSZ is a Jiang, Good Uncle JC, Cousins JL & LSZ, JC Needs a Hug, JC Needs Therapy, The juniors solve a mystery, Junior Ensemble Shenanigans, Good Uncle LQR, he tries his best, LSZ Needs a Hug)

~*~

15. itmf fics where instead of lan xichen, lan wangji becomes sect leader/king/emperor/etc. With happy ending for wangxian! Any length and rating works and if there's smut, can I get top plan wangji please? And nothing where lan wangji is with someone else romantically/sexually even for a bit in the course of the fic I don't have any other triggers/squicks!

The Wrong Man by Remma3760 (Not Rated, 103k, WangXian, WIP, Sect Leader LWJ, Evil JGS, Canon Divergence, Golden Core Reveal) Not exactly LWJ becoming sect leader *instead of* LXC, but does have LXC getting killed off in chapter 1, & LWJ becoming sect leader & instituting sweeping reforms. Still a WIP but the main story is over & is a happy ending (WWX is actually alive in this, so no having to wait for resurrection)

I Am Happy I Met You by Bhargavee00 (Not Rated, 34k, WIP, WangXian, Get a Happy Ending, Sect Leader LWJ, Chief Cultivator LWJ, Dragon LWJ, Top LWJ/Bottom WWX, Madam Lan Lives, Minor Madam Lan/Qingheng-jun, Qingheng-jun, Lives, Dark LWJ, Protective LWJ, Protective Gusu Lan Sect, Protective LXC, Protective LQR, Good Uncle LQR, WangXian Are Soulmates, WWX Goes to Gusu, Yunmeng Jiang Sect Bashing, Jiang Family Bashing, LWJ is So Whipped, Older LWJ, Good Older Sibling LXC, Sunshot Campaign, No Golden Core Transfer, WWX is a Lan, WWX is So Whipped)

The Straightest Path by meyari (T, 30k, WangXian, NieLan, MingLi, ChengSang, war and death, Grief/Mourning, Politics, plotting for neuroatypicals, Autistic LWJ, WWX Has ADHD, Non-Canon Relationship, No Yīn Iron, Sect Leader LWJ) LXC and LQR die leaving Lan Zhan to becoming Sect Leader

🧡 Discarded by teawater (E, 260k, WIP, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Dying Lan children, Hurt/Comfort, YL WWX, Golden Core Reveal, Case Fic, Depression, Family Issues, Self-Esteem Issues, Self Confidence Issues, Self-Worth Issues, Angst with a Happy Ending, and it's not always dark, POV Multiple, BAMF WWX, dubious morals in the Lan sect Feels, Pining, Grief, Fix-It, BAMF LWJ)

golden when the day met the night by glitteringmoonlight (Not rated, 95k, slow burn, sugar daddy LWJ, light, angst, fluff, developing relationship, eventual smut, WIP)

Temptation by Karmiya (E, 23k, WangXian, JYL & WWX, WIP, Sect Leader LWJ, domestic abuse) LXC dies after the Sunshot Campaign and LZ becomes Sect Leader

~*~

16. Hii!! does this count as an itmf? if anyone knows a fic where LZ gets married or bethroted during the thirteen years but then WY comes back anything like that ?? if it doesnt it definitely should ill take anything similar tho @yesibest

patching the road with vague intentions by loosingletters (T, 39k, WIP, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Humor, Developing Friendships, WWX Resurrected By Others, Trans WWX, Case Fic, POV WWX, POV LQR, Family, Good Uncle LQR, Hurt/Comfort, Golden Core Reveal, Slow Burn, Canon-Typical Violence, MXY Lives) To be fair, LWJs wife is the one who summons WWX into her body so it might not fully fit

Love Song In Reverse by timetoboldlygo (T, 237k, WangXian, Amnesia, Canon Divergence, Angst with a Happy Ending, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Non-Sexual Intimacy, Falling In Love, Slow Burn, agressively mixing and matching novel and cql canon, No Homophobia, Mentions of Starvation, Parental WWX) For 16, if what you're looking for is wangxian struggle with their feelings for each other post ressurection while lwj is already commited to someone else, you might like Love Song in Reverse where WY comes back but without his memories so he believes he's MXY and he and LZ navigate their feelings while LZ is still commited to his feelings for WY.

~*~

17. for the next itmf what about a fic from when lwj and jc are searching for wwx when he was in the burial mounds

in our respective ways by Lise (T, 5k, JC & WWX, JC & LWJ, Missing Scene, Bonding, (sort of??), POV JC, Canon Compliant, that brief period of time when lwj and jc were solidly on the same page, JC's jealousy could be a third character, Twin Prides of Yunmeng Feels, Brothers, Canon Era, Not Friends to Still Not Friends, canon typical abuse of pows)

waiting, shivering by kornevable (T, 2k, JC & WWX, Introspection, Missing Scene, background wangxian)

~*~

If you didn’t get an answer to your ask here, don’t forget to make use of @mdzs-kinkmeme and MDZS KINK MEME on Dreamwidth. Authors actually do use them for ideas. You may get what you order!***Your prompt doesn’t have to be kink! Fluff, crack, whatever - it’s all good!***

[echos-gal]

ok i'm rapidly losing hope that Tech is still alive, and this sucks because it was basically the top thing i desperately wanted from this season. i wanted to see him survive. so here's my exhaustive and embarrassingly long list of reasons why he SHOULD still be alive, and if he isn't, why it was a missed opportunity. obviously no hate to the writers or anything, i love them dearly for creating this show!!!

(if you're a "Tech should stay dead for the stakes/so someone in SW stays dead for once/i hate delusional Tech stans" person, kindly keep scrolling, this ain't for you)

SEASON 2:

right from the start, Romar connects with Tech and calls himself "a survivor." HELLO???

in this same arc, Tech breaks his leg in a fall which he survives. he continues to walk on it, fighting off troopers to save Echo & Omega, showcasing his persistence and grit.

one of Phee's first lines is "better late than dead," and we know she shares a connection with Tech. she flirts with him later in this scene. it would be a shame not to reuse this line, i'm just saying....

Cid still owes Tech for racing for her in Faster. we see Cid looking miserable as she betrays the batch in Plan 99, so her playing a part in his rescue/comeback would be a nice way to show her growth. (i'm afraid there isn't enough time for this, though- as much as i thought a Cid redemption was on the horizon!)

Phee and Tech's departure is awkward, and although we have some context from season 3 (they talked more than we realized), the scene would do best if reconciled in person imo. it felt like it was setting up for something, and feels weird to leave hanging.

"don't go running off with any pirates or smugglers" could not have just been a throw away line. it set up for him to do exactly that. how fitting would it be if pirates or smugglers actually did manage to pick him up before the empire made it to the railcar crash site?

Hemlock's retrieval of the goggles shows that he sent a team to look through the wreckage. he thought there was a chance Tech survived, and may have him.

i won't go into the logistics, but big falls ARE survivable. in star wars especially. we have no idea what was below the layer of clouds/mist Tech fell through.

SEASON 3:

this is mostly CX-2 centric. their armor is very similar: the jaw/mouth shape, the hexagons over the ears, the rectangles on the chest, and the pouches/pockets.

"domicile." that is all.

CX-2 uses technology more than the other operatives we've seen, and he gets past the encryption on Phee's ship with ease.

"who are you?" was enunciated in the exact same way Tech says it to Trace and Rafa, which i definitely think was intentional.

CX-2 stops to use his rifle scope in the exact same spot where Tech and Phee stood to let down the ladders in the sea surge on Pabu.

he survives a waterfall plunge on Teth, which appears to have fooled Rex's group into thinking he'd died. the writers could have killed him off there and sent a new operative, but they chose to stick with CX-2 pursuing them to Pabu.

it's worth noting that while this CX is designated as "2," Tech's CT number is CT-9902. he is associated with the number even on a visual level: he's a dual-wielder, he wears goggles, he salutes with two fingers.

FROM A STORY PERSPECTIVE:

firstly, i am sorry and i LOVE the writers, but if you want people to accept a character's death, you've got to show his family and friends' grief. we saw no reaction from Crosshair or Phee, no tears from Hunter or Echo. it feels like fans were sadder about Tech's death than the characters in the story.

Tech seems to have been mentioned more in the second half of season 3 than the first half, which works if they want to bring him back in the finale.

the finale is called "The Cavalry Has Arrived." i really don't think you can have the cavalry (aka the bad batch) arrive without every member present. i also don't think it would feel right to play their theme without Tech there. idk, that feels incomplete!

we saw no body, and Hunter received Tech's goggles not from a trusted ally or friend, but from Hemlock. this calls into question the legitimacy of his claim that the goggles were "all he could salvage."

Tech alive and being held on Tantiss would provide a nice parallel to Echo in the first mission where we meet the batch, in TCW. and [ep 14 SPOILERS] we see that Echo is currently looking more like his TCW self, with his earpiece removed.

feels kinda sour that a character who a lot of people related to as neurodivergent representation would die just a few episodes after having a deep conversation with his sister about it.

likewise (and as a white woman i can't speak for WOC), from what i have seen, Black women are rarely the main love interest of a series! Phee is the ONLY love interest in this whole show, and it would suck to just cut off that romance before it could really become something. a lot of people wanted to see TechPhee become canon.

CX-2 is the one who destroys the marauder. it works well storywise for its pilot to have been the one to do that- the person who worked so hard modifying it, flying it, and teaching his sister to fly it. i'll be lowkey pissed if it turns out some random dude blew it up.

it's also CX-2 who invades and sets fire to Pabu. this is emotionally gripping on its own, but if he is Tech, it's even more so.

we have no idea what the operatives go through. Crosshair isn't telling, but it clearly put him in a really bad place. if Tech underwent this conditioning in his post-fall injured state, there's a chance he could come back from it. Emerie is probably the key to this, if they take the CX-2 route.

this show is all about a family trying to stay together as the Empire desperately tries to rip them apart. seeing the whole family together again - even if not everyone survives - in the finale is the satisfaction that the show ideally would go for. the last time they were all together was the season 1 finale. that was about 2 years ago in the show's timeline.

leaving Crosshair and Tech's final interactions be where they parted on the Kamino platform also feels off. Tech was the one who really vocalized the need to rescue Crosshair in season 2's finale. Crosshair, in the meantime, has changed significantly as a person. Tech's comment about Crosshair being "severe and unyielding," and unable to change this facet of his nature, is incorrect. leaving Tech dead would mean that he never gets to see this change in Crosshair, which makes me feel like a deflated balloon.

FROM MY SELFISH PERSPECTIVE!!!

give me Tech with cool scars and slightly disheveled longer hair. this is such a good opportunity for the creators to give him a sweet new look!

we never got to see Tech without his goggles on, despite Phee constantly referring to his eyes. he definitely doesn't have them right now (they're in the Archium), so we could get Mister Big Brown Eyes if he's alive. it's another missed opportunity if not, imo!

the goggles being placed in the Archium was a beautiful scene that makes me tear up whenever i think about it. it's symbolic, it's bittersweet, and it's exactly where the goggles belong. but was it closure for me? not really.

Tech is a character who became a LOT of people's favorite in season 2, including my own. why kill off a fan-favorite with an entire season to go?

yes, i desperately want a Rex and Echo series. yes, i want the batch to cameo in it, and yes... that includes Tech. making up for lost season 3 Tech content 😎

the finale will feature the zillo beast, and Tech loves the zillo beast. FREE HER! REUNITE THEM! he would love to witness her rampage.

FROM A "SURPRISE!!!!!" PERSPECTIVE

it seems like most people think Tech is either CX-2 or dead. it would be a great finale twist if we DID get CX-2's identity, it's NOT Tech, the audience loses hope, and then he shows up. i think this is actually plausible given the other assassin schematics Hemlock was looking at in Point of No Return. Tech might be in Hemlock's grasp, but not an active operative. having an enhanced clone to toy with is something Hemlock would want to keep under wraps. we see him step out of the assassin chamber at the start of that episode - if Tech is anywhere on Tantiss, i think it's here.

i think the writers have expected us to have all lost hope by now, so his finale reappearance would ideally come as a shock. the finale is almost guaranteed to be a very long episode, so we really might have quite a bit of time to explore his return, if it happens.

secret 16th episode: i know, i'm putting my clown makeup on as i type this. but the previous 2 seasons each had 16 episodes, with a two-parter finale. season 3 is just 15, with a single episode finale. TBB formally ends may 1st, so what if we get a may 4th surprise episode detailing how Tech survived? (that or an epilogue leading into a new series, which i think is more likely actually!)

[skamenglishsubs]

Subtext and Culture, Young Royals, Season 3, Episode 4

Last episode ended with Simon coming home to a smashed window, this episode starts the morning after, Simon takes the bus to school, while Wilhelm is anxiously waiting for him.

Culture: At a high school level in Sweden, there's national tests in Swedish, English, and Math. Like everywhere else, the purpose of these tests is not only to grade students, but to align all schools across the country to combat grade inflation.

Blink and you miss it: Vincent is trying to cheat by looking at Nils' answers.

Blink and you miss it: Vincent draws a dick in the gravel while waiting for the others to be done with the test.

Subtext: This entire episode is overflowing with examples of privilege. For Vincent, and many other rich kids like him, studying and learning doesn't matter, they'll graduate regardless, so he doesn't care about the exam, he only cares about the graduation party.

Cinematography: Even with Felice and friends being completely blurred out in the background, you can still see Stella and Fredrika turning to look at Sara, and then turning their backs on her.

Culture: In the US, a lot of people are using "socialism" as a catch-all phrase which means politics they don't agree with, regardless of its actual ideology. Likewise, in Sweden, a lot of people use "communist" in the same way about generally left-wing politics, which is what Vincent is doing here.

Subtext: Wilhelm asks Simon if he can reconcile the conflict of dating a royal while being anti-monarchy, but the real question is of course if Wilhelm can reconcile the conflict in himself.

Subtext: This is where the show's political stance shines through, and this argument, that Wilhelm wasn't allowed to choose his life for himself, is the main argument they're gonna use in the finale.

Subtext: Wilhelm is weakly defending the monarchy, but just ends up repeating what his mother told him; it's a privilege, not a punishment, but does he believe it himself?

Subtext: The letter-to-yourself plot is mainly there in order to help August along his redemption arc, but here the show is using it to reinforce the point of the previous scene. Who does Wilhelm want to become? Does he have a choice?

Culture: In Sweden, Säkerhetspolisen, SÄPO, is the government agency in charge of national security, which includes providing security and assigning bodyguards to the royal family.

Subtext: Note the great use of passive voice here by Farima to avoid taking responsibility for the decision to force August to join the birthday foundation event. She's also expertly bargaining with Wilhelm to get what she wants.

Subtext: We know it was the far-right assholes who posted comments to Simon's videos a couple of episodes ago.

Blink and you miss it: Jan-Olof really perks up when Linda talks about moving to Gothenburg, because that would probably mean the end to the relationship between Wilhelm and Simon, which would solve all of his current problems.

Subtext: Like Farima, he bargains with Linda and Simon to get what he wants, for Simon to stop posting things to social media. It's almost as if their strategy was to do nothing at the start, waiting for things to blow up so they could swoop in, help out, and start making demands in exchange...

Blink and you miss it: The option to inactivate and hide your social media account is right there, but of course Simon has to choose to delete everything, because it will cause more drama and anguish.

Blink and you miss it: Fencing! Woohoo! I did fencing for five years as a kid until 8th grade or something, but I only did foil, and not épée like these students. I have absolutely no idea where these two are coming from or going to though, where would they practice? Is there a hidden fencing hall somewhere on the grounds that we haven't seen yet? How many kids at Hillerska are fencing? Also, he's carrying a practice blade and not an electric competition blade, so that checks out. Of the three types of modern fencing, épée is unique in that the entire body counts as a valid target, while in foil only the torso counts, and in sabre only the upper half counts. Oh wow, it looks like the gear is now wireless and every fencer carries their own indicator lights. Cool! Back in my day you had to be strapped in with a cord for competitions.

This tumblr is now about French School fencing. Allez! Touché!

Subtext: The narrative is that it's perfectly ok for the crown prince to be gay, as long as he's not gay gay.

Culture: The show keeps saying this, but in real world Sweden it's no longer the case. Supporting los jibbities is viewed as a completely mainstream and inoffensive opinion, on par with supporting human rights in general.

Subtext: Another example of privilege is being in a position to do a lot of good, and then just not caring about it. Simon is fighting for the causes he believes in, so seeing Wilhelm just casually throw it away is extremely disappointing for him.

Subtext: Unlike Vincent, August is actually a natural leader, someone people listen to, which is why he manages to quiet down the room when Vincent is unable to. Maybe a good quality in a future king?

Subtext: Simon is continuing the argument from before. Wilhelm could have shown solidarity with mental health causes or LGBT causes, but chose not to. However, he immediately decided to join in solidarity with the other rich kids protesting the school rules, which is rather selfish.

Subtext: Colour theory! Sara in purple, because part of the reason she's back at school is that August asked her to? And Simon in yellow, because he sure isn't loving Wilhelm very much right now.

Subtext: Just a reminder that Sara has actually been completely out of the loop since the end of season 2. She has no idea about the school rules, what's happened at home, how it's going with Simon and Wilhelm, or what's happening at school.

Blink and you miss it: Fredrika is so close to stop striking as soon as she's threatened with repercussions.

Subtext: I keep hammering this point home: The culture is in the walls, it's not something some of the kids made up. The visiting alumni were also hazed as new students and kept it going as third years. Same for the parents of all these kids. They're all part of the system, they all kept the cycles of abuse going, because they want the school to be like that.

Subtext: Privilege is thinking you can get things your way with almost no effort. None of these kids have ever struggled or protested something for real and then not been given what they wanted, so they seriously believed they'd win immediately.

Subtext: Another theme of this season is bringing secrets out in the open. We've all seen August struggling with body dysmorphia and an eating disorder since season 1, but no-one has ever called it out and put words on it, until Simon immediately recognizes it and calls it out.

Subtext: ...while the rich kids are just stuck in denial, because eating disorders is for poor people or something, it's not something that happens to them. And if it did, you certainly wouldn't admit it to anyone else.

Subtext: August tries to jokingly fend off Nils because he doesn't want anyone to know that the letter actually meant something to him, until Nils pushes too hard, and August punches him.

Subtext: Vincent talked a big game about striking in solidarity, but when they're caught as hilariously unprepared as they are, they're not pooling their resources in solidarity with each other, and instead resort to selling them to the highest bidder. Capitalism in a nutshell, illustrated perfectly by the behaviour of spoiled rich kids. Also, pet peeve, the English word for the currency of Sweden is "kronor", not "crowns".

Lost in translation: They're actually repeating a single word in Swedish, "svikare", which is pretty hard to translate. The verb, "svika", is a bit worse than letting someone down, but not as bad as betraying someone. The adjective, "besviken" typically means disappointed. So "svikare" means a person who is letting other people down, disappointing them, or betraying them.

Subtext: The culture is in the walls of the place, but the kids are also pretty damn complicit in continuing all the shitty traditions. This looks like a game of strip poker or truth or dare that went off the rails and just resulted in more bullying, with everyone joining in.

Subtext: The other girls are upset with Felice because she broke the code. You don't snitch to outsiders, you don't tell the truth, you keep up appearances.

Blink and you miss it: Henry won the potato chip auction, happily ate the entire bag, and passed out in a chair, clutching the bag. Mmmm, sourcream and onion.

Subtext: Speaking of closing ranks towards the outside, this also applies to this strike. It would be bad PR for the school if anyone outside found out that it happened, so it's better to solve it quietly and discreetly. Vanessa can trust the kids not to snitch. Vincent is also right, the parents, who are paying the tuition fees, are on their side.

Subtext: Felice can't be seen talking to Sara, so she checks that the coast is clear, and then drags Sara into a private bathroom to have their conversation.

Subtext: Likewise, Sara was probably Felice's first real friend.

Subtext: Nice little foreshadowing. I would have loved seeing Simon's drawing though!

Subtext: Well, he could have just made his social media private, but the show has to maximize the drama, so here we are, piling on more examples of how Simon is losing himself to the monarchy, that maybe he can't reconcile the conflict.

Subtext: Erik spent three years living at Hillerska, of course he wouldn't have told his then twelve year old kid brother about all the shit going on at the school. August spent an entire year living with Erik at the school, seeing what went on first hand, so of course he knows a side of Erik that Wilhelm doesn't.

Subtext: August has been trying to keep his mouth shut and avoid Wilhelm, but since they have yet another fight, he decides to drop the bomb about Erik to hurt Wilhelm.

Subtext: Again, the culture is in the walls. This is not something that only Erik's class did, once. It's probably been happening to all the boys for decades. It happened to the current second-year students, it happened to Erik, and lots of students before him who kept this shitty initiation tradition going.

Culture: Let's talk about the gay porn hazing a bit more. To me, this is an urban legend. I heard about it when I was a teenager back in the 90's, but I don't personally know anyone it happened to, or anyone who did it to anyone else. It was always hearsay, it happened to a friend of a friend's brother, or a classmate's cousin's friend or something similar, as is typical of urban legends.

Let's also make one thing absolutely clear: It doesn't work. The homophobic idea behind this shit is that if you are forced to watch gay porn and get a boner, you are gay, and if you don't, you're straight. But that is actually not true, erections don't work that way, and the fear of being found out is quite the boner killer. Also, what if you like guys, but the guys in the porno aren't your type? There's just so many ignorant misconceptions behind this idea.

I've also seen a lot of fan comments that keep playing into this ignorance; that the only reason Nils decided to stop the tradition was because he obviously failed it. Or that the only reason August is against it is because he failed, and the only reason he failed is because he's secretly not straight. No. Remember that the test doesn't work. Nils probably passed, despite actually being gay. August might have failed, despite being completely straight. Regardless of what happened, they both found it humiliating, and that is why they made a pact to stop it.

[jq37]

So, that lady FH episode was amazing and all, but...

Hoo boy, I already see the discourse around the Ratgrinders' fates forming and it is going to be painful. Be careful around the fandom space.

(I mean, resurrection is still on the table for them, but that's based on if the players feel like it and right now, we're looking at 50/50 odds at bests)

Yeah, don't worry about me. This isn't my first rodeo and also I post a lot about D20 and respond to asks I get but I don't actually personally engage with any of The Discourse (tm).

And I'm not really surprised at the reaction. I know people have been opinionated all season in two main camps (that have a lot of overlap): people dissatisfied with the narrative direction and people deeply sympathetic to the Rat Grinders to the point of being mad at the Bad Kids.

The first camp I mostly understand. I get wishing the cast would explore a certain storyline more. For example, I've been on the Aelwyn redemption arc train since literally the first episode of Fantasy High so I was a little disappointed that when that finally came to a head in Freshman Year, it was a big fight and then very little aftermath/unpacking because Aelwyn was sent to jail right after. And Sophomore Year hadn't been announced so I had no idea that she was gonna get another shot. But I wasn't upset or anything. Adaine at that point still hated her sister. She had no reason to want to reach out. And at the end of the day this is other people playing a game. Brennan presented them all the possible plot threads and they were most interested in self discovery, hanging out with each other, doing Shenanigans, and playing Tomb Raider re: Ankarna. Those are all options they were presented and it's not like they were doing crazy off-roading. It's well within the parameters of what D&D is. If you're gonna watch a show like this (or honestly any show), you have to accept that what's most interesting to you isn't always going to be the most interesting thing to the people in the driver's seat.

So yeah, I feel like this side of things I get (even though I'm fine with how things turned out).

The other camp--people being legit mad at the Bad Kids (and in some cases the actual cast) for treating the Rat Grinders like antagonists instead of victims that they were responsible for empathizing with and redeeming--I find kind of wild.

Like…you're mad at the kids who go to Child Murder School for killing kids who want to end the world and kill them specifically? Literally the first day of school the principal of the school says that adventurers are violent wanderers who engage in shenanigans and enact violence. This is the exact assignment they were given and that's what they're doing.

I think it's wild to at the same time believe that the Rat Grinders (who have killed people) are not responsible for their actions and deserve to be talked down while in the process of causing an apocalypse because they're just kids who were manipulated while at the same time calling the Bad Kids evil lunatics for trying to stop them by killing them (in a world where Revivify and Resurrection exist) even though they are ALSO kids who are doing what they've learned at Child Murder School. The Bad Kids have to be mature enough to thoroughly investigate the situation and have nuance about it but the Rat Grinders don't have any responsibility to not join a shady evil murder plan*? And do the Bad Kids really hate the Rat Grinders to the point where they're doing some overkill in this fight? Absolutely. But it's not like they're killing them because they hate them. They're killing them because they're trying to end the world--and they also happen to hate them. Are we forgetting that Kipperlilly killed Buddy--her own teammate--with a gleeful smile on her face? That was so out of pocket.

They're adventurers! Not guidance counselors! If Jawbone was like, "We need to kill these kids," yeah that would be weird but why would the Bad Kids extend an olive branch to the kids who (1) famously hate them, (2) killed at least one maybe 2 of their own party members, (3) endangered the entire student body population an hour ago, (4) are currently trying to end the world. Hell, Adaine was ready to be mean to her own sister in elf jail literally up until the point Brennan described how rough she looked from the torture and that's when she changed her mind. The Power of Love and Empathy is on the menu but it's a special item you only can get if you know the chef. Everyone else is getting a serving of These Hands. Just because you can find a vegan solution to a problem it doesn't mean you're obligated to.

This all comes down to, "Maybe teenagers shouldn't have godlike powers and the ability to play judge, jury, and executioner" but that's literally the premise of the entire show so you can't get around it without rejecting the show's entire premise. If they were like, "Hmm the systems that underpin our world are questionable and we should change the power structures" instead of, "Let's kill some bad guys!" then that's a totally different thing we're doing here!

And, idk man, this show has always had a Who Framed Roger Rabbit style morality where the normal rules of ethics stop applying when it's funny. They beat the crud out of Ragh and then lied to him that he shit his pants just for the bit. A pirate was rude/kinda racist to Riz so they scared him into killing himself. Riz ate the remains of the sentient (albiet evil) dragon he killed. That's all unhinged behavior but none of that is meant to be serious. Getting upset about Fig sending Ruben to hell to me feels like getting mad that Jerry hit Tom with a cartoonishly large mallet.

None of this is new so I have to assume that people are having a big reaction because they relate to the Rat Grinders or just really like them so it feels bad that the Bad Kids are treating them like fodder rather than beloved NPCs.

But again, this is a world where you can bring people back from the dead and the Rat Grinders have showed intent that is grievously neglectful at best and insanely murderous at worst so I can't muster a lot of sympathy for the fact that the Bad Kids are just taking them down without remorse. I don't think you have to try to empathize with the people who are trying to harm you if you don't want to especially while they are in the process of harming you.

(*And we still don't know how voluntarily they joined this plan. We don't know if they were killed and basically forced into resurrecting with rage or if they just leapt at the chance to join a plan that would let them get one over on their rivals. It literally could be either. We've had kid villains on this show strong armed into being party to evil plans by threat of harm (Aelwyn) as well was kid villains who just had their own selfish motivations and weren't tricked at all (Penelope and Biz). We actually don't have any clear answer on how culpable they are. We don't know if they all have rage crystals (except for Buddy). And we don't know how much having a Rage Crystal effects your actions. The best indicator we got is in this latest ep when Brennan said that there was a mechanic where Porter was going to call anyone with a rage crystal to fight for him but that says to me that he's only directly puppeting them when he uses that action and otherwise they have free will and are just angrier. The Bad Kids don't have a reason to believe definitively that the Rat Grinders are just unwilling puppets even if that is the case so of course they're treating them like enemies. Anyway, this is a whole lot of "I don't knows" but that's only because I've seen a lot of people talking like the Rat Grinders literally aren't in control of their actions but that's not info that we have. It could be true but we don't actually know that so it's not a good argument.)

[musicfeedsmysoul12]

Thoughts on Bakugou’s Arc:

I maintain that his entire character arc should have been:

A) Some people shouldn’t be heroes. I think it would have been interesting to explore the idea of someone just not being able to be a hero because of their attitude. My more recent Drabble discussing the idea of some conditions automatically denying someone a place in the hero course comes to mind. But also- some people just do not have the right aptitude. And the idea of exploring Bakugou as a character who is so focused on the societal view of heroics (fighting and being the best) he fails at every other aspect leading to his removal from the hero course? That’s attractive as hell as a concept. It also drives home the theme of ‘society has commodified heroics and not has become an entire popularity game’ if we follow this idea. Because we get told he is ‘perfect’ for heroics with his Quirk. We watch as he struts about with his head in the air- and bang! He shows he isn’t right for heroics. UA is the best of the best. We know top heroes come from it. Is it that weird that maybe a kid who isn’t right for heroics just washes right out?

Plus this is also a way for Izuku himself to realize he is a good hero. His bully, the guy held up above all else, had failed where he succeeded. Izuku gets to be raised up and realize he has heroic potential, a true ‘hey Quirks don’t matter’ moment. Because OFA is useful but Izuku has always been heroic.

B) Ego is the downfall of man/Average fish from a small pond moves to a big lake. Bakugou is forced to realize he isn’t the best of the best. This would have been so nice to see. Bakugou’s entire character was/is built on being the best. Izuku looks up to him in canon because he was the best- in their shitty middle school Bakugou chose to have the ‘perfect’ hero story. (It’s canon it’s a third rate school. It means that for someone who is dedicated to studying/working out as Bakugou is canonly it’s not HARD to be at the top) So when they go to U.A… Bakugou is suddenly scrambling to keep up. And at first he doesn’t notice. He’s fine. Then he begins getting his ass kicked. Because working out enough to be at the top at a third rank school? Easy. Working hard enough to compete with people training to be heroes since they were kids? Harder. Even more so since his Quirk isn’t actually as versatile as others. Explosions pale in comparison to Creation or Half Hot-Half Cold. Even Engine is more versatile then explosions from his hands. Animal Voice, Pop Off- all these have more use then his. (sure he can fly but his only skill is in fighting which isn’t everything about heroics)

Bakugou tries to comfort himself with the idea at least he is the best in school but… well, again- average fish in a small pond. He finds himself struggling. The topics are more advanced then he’s used to, suddenly he is expected to follow an incredibly fast paced curriculum (because UA hero course focuses more on heroics, it makes sense the classes are fast paced to focus on heroics) and he can’t. He isn’t used to it, his way of studying fails him.

Bakugou finds himself in the bottom fourth of the class with no idea how he ended up there. And he’s angry. Unfortunately for him, his attitude isn’t doing him favours. He is told to sit down, to knock it off, stop yelling and blaming others. So when he fails his final exam for hitting Izuku (because he should have and I will die on that hill) he is so desperate to prove he is the best. So he goes out, ignoring orders to stay put, during the camp and…

He gets expelled/killed.

This would have been so cool to see. Just the idea of Bakugou being shown again as a way society fails people by propping them up for their Quirk even if they don’t deserve it. So good.

C) He learns that he doesn’t need to be the best. In a world where his redemption actually is one, I would love to have seen him perfectly content with being a mid ranked hero as long as he was saving people. This would feel so good to see, that he has realized that power isn’t everything, that being the best isn’t all that. Just Bakugou being ranked like 500, working at being the best hero he can but not participating in the rankings because he knows it’s garbage and he doesn’t need it.

That feels like so much more of a natural progression of his character. He starts as an asshole who is only in it for himself, to be the best. He wants to be number one. But he actually realizes to be a hero it’s not about that.

I think that would have been perfect. It’s showing that the hero system is busted and your rank shouldn’t matter. It’s showing actual change in Bakugou as a character as he works through his shit. He doesn’t need to be the best- he’s happy just being a hero.

Instead we got ‘oh yeah Bakugou is a top hero and doesn’t change at all’.

Freaking boring.

[thegreatestchange]

as soon as i finished s2 of arcane i knew i wanted to hear your takes on it. any opinions as to how they handled caitlyn’s arc, vi’s story, and the development of s2? i would love to hear anything you have to say about this season!!

also - the end of this season has me scouring Ao3 for some fics to fill the void. have you had any recent one shot or fic ideas now that the show has ended? i’ve been dying for a hurt/comfort and really soft sex type of story for cait and vi. maybe something where cait is taking care of vi after the events of 206? lord knows they could both use the comfort and vi deserves to be loved and taken care of. i know you would write that beautifully.

or if you have any recs for fics along those lines? 👀

as always, thanks for your incredible work both inside and outside of fandoms! love hearing from you! <3

Omg hiii! I appreciate that you care what I think haha!

Let me preface this by saying that the criticisms I have for the writing of s2 does not take away the love I have for this show and what it's done for animation as a medium.

Now, with that said...

S2 was a mess.

I said this on twitter, but I think the writers had a lot of ambition — too much ambition — for the amount of episodes they had to wrap this story up cohesively. This AMAZING show suffered because of corporate greed and not having enough time to flesh out character arcs and plots from s1. I think it started off promising. I was really excited to see how they would handle the Zaun/Piltover conflict, Vi's journey toward healing and forgiving herself for her past mistakes, Jinx's descent and then return as a hero, as well as Caitlyn's descent and redemption arc.

Instead we got... that.

There's one word that keeps twirling around in my head: commitment.

The writers lacked commitment (and a diverse writing room) to properly handle the Piltover/Zaun conflict. S1 had such a good starting point, whereas in S2 it's like they diverged from the path and forgot the finish line existed. Sitting Sevika at a table with her oppressors who will most likely tune her out and outvote her on everything is NOT a solution. Why not a complete overhaul of the council? Make it an even split? Instead it's the same people who never gave a fuck in the first place, and Sevika, who helped get half of the population of Zaun hooked on shimmer in the first place. Like what???

They failed to commit to Caitlyn's villain/dictator era. When episode 3 happened, I was skeptical about how they would handle it. And after watching the entire season, I had every right to feel that way. They make her so unapologetic and blasé about gassing Zaunites and letting Ambessa unlawfully arrest people. That's not my Cait from season 1. Does grief change people? Absolutely! But once it settles, you should be able to look back on what you've done and feel remorseful. Cait's lack of remorse was jarring. Her inability to apologize or outwardly own up to everything she did was OOC. You know what could've been the perfect moment for that? When Jayce gathered Piltover and Zaun in that room and she was standing right across from them. Why not have Sevika or Scar call her ass out and hold her feet to the fire? Lay out the facts of what her grief looked like to the innocent people of Zaun who had nothing to do with it? That would've been the perfect time for her to say something.

They failed to commit to Jinx and her story as a whole. At its core, this show was centered around two sisters growing up impoverished and oppressed, constantly separated, but always finding their way back to each other. Jinx is such a heartbreaking character used for trauma porn. Episode 6 fucked me up so badly but I THOUGHT it would lead to something big for her character. Like her stepping into this unwilling hero role and working with Ekko to lead Zaun into a better future like the one Ekko saw in episode 7. BUT LOL NOPE. Instead she's suicidal and self harming while her sister is fucking the oppressor in a prison cell. DA FUCK?

And lastly they failed Vi's character in every possible way. From putting on the badge in the first place to not exploring the depth of her character. She's basically a passenger in s2. Has no agency. Used as a punching bag (literally). And treated as an afterthought. I'm so pissed. There should've been a lot of conflict in act 1 between her and Cait. You mean to tell me Vi, who HATES enforcers. would willingly let her situationship gas her people? Fuck no. Absolutely not. It does not make sense, narratively speaking. Her ending did not make me hopeful. Even if Jinx is alive and moving on from Vi to "break the cycle" that does nothing for Vi's character. She is without family once again, and I fear it would lead to an unhealthy codependent relationship with Cait. Like she'll never be able to voice opposing thoughts or feelings without fear of Cait leaving her AGAIN.

As for the Caitvi relationship. This is tough. On one hand, I was happy to see a lesbian s*x scene in animation for an awarded television show. But on a heavier hand, it rings hollow after everything I've said. Much like the Piltover/Zaun story, Caitvi had a good starting point in season 1. I did have my issues with it because, as a Black woman, seeing someone oppressed get with a cop does nothing for me. But I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt because I believed the writers knew what they were doing. But I was wrong again. CaitVi is unfortunately one of the weakest points of S2. The writers did not COMMIT to their conflict. It's barely glossed over and then Caitlyn gets rewarded with s*x. And this is why I could never commit to them as a couple. At least not in canon. I liked them in s1 and the idea of what they could've been to each other in s2. And it looks like I'm going to have to find that elsewhere, unfortunately.

Overall, it all comes back to what I said in the beginning: lack of time, a diverse writing room, and corporate greed. I'm disappointed, but unfortunately not surprised. I hope the writers can learn from their mistakes moving forward.

As for fanfiction, I have actually not read any yet! So I don't have any recommendations for you. I need some for myself! I'll get back to you if I find any good ones.

Sorry for the lengthy post! I really just needed to get this all out and I feel so much better.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

Hey

Want to know your opinion, how would you improve some arcs of toh characters, like Amity, Hunter, Lilith, Willow, Gus and probably anyone whose arcs you think are bad-written?

good question! let's see,

luz: i have mostly no complaints about her character but i wish they made it clear that her running off to the boiling isles was not ideal. i don't entirely blame her because she was a child and she was looking for a way to avoid going to camp, but the show starts off implying that luz's escapism was a bad thing, but then they kinda contradict that in the end, by letting her have access to the boiling isles forever.

also her s3 arc with her palisman was just overall poorly written. it was supposed to be an emotional and wholesome moment but it didn't have that impact on me. if luz's greatest wish was to be understood, they should have built on that more. i mean, it's not like no one understood her, all of her friends and found family in the boiling isles seem to understand and empathize with her. it just felt like the writers pulled this revelation out of their asses, and the fact that stringbean was inexplicably a shapeshifter didn't help their case.

amity: i would keep some parts of her initial characterization, like her ambitious nature and her resting bitch face energy. even if the idea was to make amity grow into a more cheerful person, it doesn't make sense that it happened so quickly. imo her characterization was at its best when she was warming up to luz but not entirely nice to other people (like during the grom episode). i really liked her cold, standoffish behaviour and i think it would have been nice if she had kept some of that, while still being a better person than she was in the beginning.

also, like i said in another post, she should definitely have goals of her own. her character shouldn't have been reduced to "luz's girlfriend". i would definitely show more of her interacting with the other characters (and these interactions and conversations aren't about luz) and pursuing her own dreams. i think steven universe did this best where connie liked steven a lot and she did hang out with him, but she also had her own life and her own dreams to chase.

hunter: i wouldn't put him in a relationship with willow, or anyone, for that matter. the poor boy has a lot of trauma he needs to work through and based on the stuff that he's said, it's clear that he doesn't know how healthy human interactions work, let alone a romantic relationship.

i would make his arc about slowly healing through his trauma or at least being able to express his emotions, instead of suppressing them for willow's sake. i think it could have been done, despite the time crunch. he needed time to grieve flapjack, to grieve himself after being possessed and almost killed by his abuser, and to slowly start his healing journey.

the others would definitely support him through it, but that's what he needs at the time, not a badass girlfriend.

lilith: i think her redemption arc started off okay but then everyone forgave her too quickly. it wasn't as bad as catra's because lilith did put a little effort into trying to be better, but she still needed to do more before she could have been forgiven.

so either i would extent her redemption arc and let the other characters, especially eda, stay mad at her a little longer before she gets forgiven. or i would just keep her as an antagonist.

they didn't even explore her trauma of being in a cult and the emperor's coven never chased her down after she left. not to mention, her experience of being in the emperor's coven is never relevant to the plot. she could have given luz inside information or talked about belos' potential weaknesses, it was such a missed opportunity.

willow: her arc with amity was not terrible and i like that she was allowed to take her time to trust amity. this is more about amity than willow but i think it would have been nice if we saw amity making more efforts to gain willow's trust. her apology in understanding willow was good but they kinda glossed over the fact that amity wasn't just "letting her friends bully willow", she was also bullying willow.

i think we needed more of willow and amity trying to mend their friendship, instead of lumity being the main focus after that one episode.

and in general, willow deserved a bigger role in the series. for the longest time, she was just luz's friend and then they forced her into a relationship with hunter, which did not work at all.

if her intended arc was to work on her insecurities and get more confident over time, they should have shown more of that process. even Any Sport In A Storm was mostly about huntlow (and hunter, to some extent) then willow. and let's be honest, the whole "half a witch" thing was dragged out more than it needed to be.

gus: okay, buckle up because i think i have the most grievances with gus. i need to make this clear. GUS WAS SO UNDERUSED.

i'm sorry. this guy is a child prodigy who can create illusions and use illusion spells to look into people's minds and force them to relive their worst memories?? why was this not more relevant to the plot? gus is such an insanely skilled witch and yet he's always pushed to the back for some reason. he has the most versatile and useful skillset but he never gets to use it, it makes me so mad!

even him looking into belos' mind was only used for that brief moment where he admits that he knew hunter was a grimwalker, but didn't want to force hunter to talk about it. that's it. we get no further conversation about it, gus never addresses the other stuff he saw in belos' memories like him MURDERING his brother and creating all the grimwalkers and god knows what else??

also just the fact that he's able to psychologically torment people with illusions is such an OP move that the series just kinda glossed over. it was used in a few episodes, but it could have been used to a greater extent. i just think that gus could have been such an interesting and powerful character, if he was given enough spotlight.

he also had a good thing going with mattholomule but instead of making that canon, they went for huntlow. i'm not saying that gus has to be in a relationship (or any of them, for that matter) but why create a new rushed ship when you already have a perfectly good one to work with?

i also find it weird that gus and willow were supposedly best friends but we got very few moments between them. i would have loved to see more of their friendship, and more focus on platonic relationships in general.

so yeah, if i were to rewrite gus, i would definitely give him a lot more spotlight. heck, given his powerset, he has the potential to be the main character even!

belos: i've mentioned it a lot before but belos deserved a more climatic end to his arc. all of the implications of religious trauma and puritan culture was thrown in the trash in s3.

he was actually such a compelling villain, genuinely intimidating and with an interesting motive and backstory. what was the point of crafting such an interesting character, just to be like "lol he's evil murder his ass"?

i'm not even mad that he died, i'm just mad that THAT'S how he died. i was expecting his death to be something ironic and self-inflicted, like the people from the human realm being horrified by him and killing him. maybe even burning him to death, the same way witches were burned at the stake. buuuut no, we get king, raine and eda stomping on his corpse because haha that's funny. hunter didn't even get to be a part of all this, and he was the one who deserved closure, he was the one who deserved to see his abuser face consequences of their actions, not fucking eda and raine.

and that part where he tries to convince luz that he was just under a terrible curse was just.. so childish. and not in-character childish, but just childish writing. it was just so ooc for belos, he is a manipulator but this wasn't how he manipulated people. i guess you could argue that he was just too desperate to survive but eh. i think it could have been written better.

eda: i don't have too many complaints here, i think she was probably the most well-rounded and compelling character in this show. her arc about the owl curse was interesting and very relatable to me, as someone who is epileptic. her relationship with raine was the best in the series imo.

the only thing i would change is, as I mentioned earlier, i wouldn't make eda forgive lilith so easily. i also think that she kind of lost her "morally grey parental figure" edge by the end of the series, and i honestly liked that part of her a lot, so i would keep it. but that's just a personal preference.

raine: they were definitely a very interesting character, i just think they deserved more screentime. most of their role in the story was surrounding their relationship with eda, which was very compelling, but we could have gotten more of their character outside their relationship.

the members of the emperor's coven, as a whole, could have been used better in the series. but for a side character with medium relevance to the plot, i'd say raine was written pretty well.

[kitkatopinions]

When people talk about how "rwde is mad that RWBY subverts expectations" I wonder how much of what's considered subverting expectations is actually ignoring set up, doing things out of nowhere, and actually doing a popular and very much so expected thing.

Like don't get me wrong, I do think sometimes people have ideas for what RWBY should've been and then think that it was more set up then it actually was. Like, people who took Blake saying she grew up outside the kingdoms and had to learn to fight to mean "I am an orphan and spent my whole life on the streets" that then got mad when Blake had pretty big house and parents. I might agree that RWBY perhaps shouldn't have given Blake the privileges they gave her specifically because of how they decided to use her to tell the other Faunus to stop being mean to their oppressors (though I'd sooner throw that part out than get rid of Blake being the daughter of a leader with a big house,) but I don't think it was pulling the rug out from under people the way some people do.

However, then you have things like Adam, where some people in RWDE are saying "he was set up as this interesting character who would be an ideological foil for Blake that cared about the cause and his people, and it felt like he'd be used as a way to talk about the injustice in the world of Remnant and then was reduced to nothing but a girl-obsessed hate sink two dimensional incel" and some anti-rwde people are hitting back with "you're just upset that the edgy bad-boy isn't getting redeemed, you just wanted Adam to be Zuko, but RWBY subverted your expectations by not redeeming him and instead giving Ilia the redemption arc, and giving Blake and Yang the sympathy."

And there's a lot to unpack, there. Including the fact that redemption arcs and sympathy aren't a zero-sum game in fiction and as someone who loves both redemption arcs and when characters get justified sympathy, it's frustrating when people act like there isn't enough redemption to go around as if it's a pie and Adam getting a piece of it means Ilia doesn't get any.

But more to the point, A. I at least have zero interest in Adam being a Zuko, because so much of Zuko's redemption arc hinged on Zuko confronting his and his people's role in oppression. Adam is oppressed. Zuko was scarred by an abusive father and banished from home, Adam was branded like cattle by a supremacist who he was working for as a child laborer. Although both are incredibly sympathetic, they're incredibly different. Whether or not the writers were trying to harken back to Zuko (which I believe they were,) they seemed to completely miss the differences between the two characters, and also deciding to 'subvert expectations' when the circumstances they themselves wrote were so different is a bad look at best. As if they couldn't have 'subverted expectations' with a different character like Cardin or Jacques or even Roman Torchwick, that wasn't a member of their in-universe oppressed minority group.

B. A member of an oppressed people group that's been hurt by the oppressors of the world and yet spends their time committing horrible cruel acts that force the heroes to stand against them is not some never before heard of thing. In fact, it's very common. A revolutionary supposedly fighting for equality that's actually hurting the people he's supposedly fighting for is a pretty regular every day thing. People have literally been criticizing how it's misused and usually racist propaganda (usually written by white people) since long before RWBY was even concepted. Adam isn't a proper subversion of anything, in my opinion, because you can't do the common thing and then say you subverted expectations by not doing the less common thing. Which in this case, the less common thing would actually be to make the oppressed person who had been branded and was shown fighting for the rights of his people to actually be a nuanced and complicated character who does deserve sympathy and could be redeemed.

C. It might just be me, but if you're going to 'subvert expectations' then the thing you write instead of the expectation had better be pretty freaking good. Because sometimes the expectation is there because it just works well. Like in a group of heroes, you expect them to develop a friendship. If people want to subvert expectations by instead having them hate each other, the story better be golden because the reason people tend to expect friendship is that it's usually much easier to connect to character dynamics when they actually like each other. If you're going to write a story where hope is a central theme, but you want to subvert expectations by making a sympathetic and cool character with a personal connection to the mains look like they're gonna get redeemed but then instead make them just the worst person imaginable, then you better do it super well and make him instead a great well-rounded nuanced and fun to hate villain. So not only do we have to pay attention to why the writers shouldn't have gone that route for Adam, we gotta look at the quality of what they did with it, and... Nope. It sucked. Adam was paper thin and horribly voice acted and honestly if he'd never attacked in V6 nothing would've really changed because it had no real consequences that couldn't have been better achieved in a different way, and introducing his branding scar in the same scene he got stabbed was purely for shock value, and nothing came of his character, and idk if Ruby ever even learned his name on screen or Weiss knew anything about him, and it was so badly done. If you're going to 'subvert expectations,' you gotta do it well, or people are always going to want the thing they expected in the beginning instead. Unfortunately, the RWBY writers didn't write Adam well at all. So I for one can't blame anyone for saying 'honestly, I wish they'd gone with the other thing.'

D. Back to 'sometimes when people say subverting expectations, they really mean ignored set up.' With Adam in particular, I do believe that he was always meant to be a bad guy who did bad cruel things from the very first trailer he appeared in, but that doesn't at all mean that set up wasn't ignored. From Blake talking about him as a mentor, to her crediting him with the Grimm masks, to the ideological differences, to Cinder literally having to threaten and coerce him into working with her on screen, the set up indicated that at the very least, this would be a complicated and nuanced 'villain with a point' and that point was going to matter and be addressed. The set up was that Cinder's coercion was going to be addressed and would matter. The set up was that Blake's complicated feelings about Adam and her desire to help her people and her later established care and compassion for Ilia (who may I remind people is at least just as bad as seasons 1-3 Adam in at least attempt if not execution,) would lead somewhere when it came to Adam. The set up was that seeing a child laborer literally branded on the face with the logo of WEISS'S COMPANY would lead to big discussions and some sort of recognition of just how bad the current system is and how bad the SDC itself as always been. And instead Weiss as far as we know never even heard about it and continued on being angry that she wasn't set to be CEO and calling her grandfather a hero and Blake was completely disinterested in attending a rally against Jacques Schnee and teased Weiss about her family owning half of Atlas. Like ???

E. Doing things out of nowhere is also not subverting expectations. In regards to Adam, this looks like randomly making him totally obsessed with Blake enough that he stalks her for weeks when he literally let her go repeatedly before that. Doing things out of nowhere is making Adam not care an ounce about his people in order to do whatever Salem says when we saw him reject Cinder outright and need to be coerced with threats to his people. Those aren't subverting expectations, that's just doing one thing and then retconning the character to do something out of character.

This post turned out to be mostly about Adam, but there's tons of examples of this, like people saying RWDE are mad that the writers 'subverted expectations' by making Ironwood turn evil when we were sitting there like 'the fact that he wasn't evil was subverting expectations in the first place! And they had to throw V3 out the window to get where they were in V8! And it was super badly done!' People just throw around 'subverting expectations' when it comes to RWBY because it sounds a lot better than 'flying by the seats of their pants doing whatever pops into their heads with no care or consideration towards set-up or emotional pay off' but that's it, that's what the RWBY writers seem to do. When I expect something to happen in RWBY, it's because it's the natural thing that makes sense to happen, and in their supposed effort to 'subvert expectations,' the writers instead made a show with no consequences where you can't expect the writers to make anything that happens matter and you can't trust what's in the show because the writers might say sike and retcon it. It's endlessly frustrating to be like 'hey was any of what was in the show going to matter' and then have people say 'you're just mad because RWBY subverted your expectations.' RWBY subverted my expectation that the show would be good, how about that?

You know, if the show actually was interested in subverting expectations, Jaune wouldn't be in the show nearly as much and he'd be more gender-non-conforming and be a support healer role instead of the man now with like twenty years of experience on the mains who always has his trauma get plenty of focus and gets away with screaming in Ruby's face that she's responsible for all bad things while he mourns the three different women that were shoved in the fridge for the sake of his character development. They could've started with making the white straight cis able-bodied not-faunus man actually not be a basic underdog-protagonist turned Michael-Scarn-esque tragic hero that Weiss lusts after, but whoops. Like what am I supposed to think, that they're super interested in subverting expectations for the sake of women when Jaune is right there guzzling up screen time? Nah babes.

(Before someone comes in here talking about Adam-obsessed fan boys, I do not even like Adam, canon Adam is not only gross but far too two-dimensional for me to even enjoy, and my own ideas for rewrites involve me boiling Adam down to a concept and building him up again as if he was a different character as much 'Adam' as Ruby is Red Riding Hood. Nobody accuse me of being an Adam-obsessed dudebro or I will lose it. Because that's another thing that a lot of anti-RWDE people seem to do, is decide that the only reason anyone would ever talk about problems with Adam is because they're an obsessed incel man. And meanwhile I'm over here as a bi-women who dislikes Adam partially because he reminds me of my controlling 'my happiness is your responsibility' ex-boyfriend who we - long story - thought might've stabbed someone with a sword once. So yeah, not an Adam fanboy lol.)

[they-them-that]

The mishandling of Jinx's mental health/illness

Trigger warning: s*cide, depression, ableism, ptsd

(edit: I did a bit of rewriting to make the post more cohesive but the same points are made for anyone looking back and seeing changes)

There were a lot of issues with the Arcane season finale. Writing quality aside; discarding the Undercity storyline in favour of an apolitical conflict (Viktor and Ambessa), the "we just need good cops" agenda, the unaddressed abuse that transpired between Cait and Vi, the questionable difference between how Ambessa (an older butch black woman) and Caitlyn (a young feminine wasian) were treated committing the same offences, the overall disjointment of the black characters' storylines, the poor portrayal of physical disabilities and prosthetic limbs, and probably more... What I want to focus on right now is Jinx's storyline and the absolutely harmful trope of "redemption through sacrifice".

In the first arc, Vi believed Jinx had to die and told Caitlyn to "take the shot" when the opportunity rose, essentially consenting to Caitlyn killing her sister and not considering peaceful alternatives (as if that's her choice to consent to). When Jinx calls out Vi for turning "blue belly" and gassing the Undercity, Vi responds that "she's not taking responsibility for Jinx's actions anymore" even though these are Vi's actions. She also tells Jinx that it's Jinx who "killed her sister".

In the second arc, Vi calls Jinx "delusional" and says "at least our parents will never get to see what a psycho their daughter turned into". She also refers to Jinx's psychosis as "fantasies" and treats it like an annoyance rather than a real mental illness Jinx can't control.

I get that Vi doesn't understand the complexities of Jinx's mental illness, she's mad with her and it's understandable, she's not gonna forgive terrorism. Jinx also ended up putting Vi through an abusive and traumatic experience at the end of season 1 so there's no reason for her to be sympathetic towards her. However, I did find the way Vi talked to Jinx to be... triggering as someone who has experienced gas lighting and made to feel like my own mental illnesses made me delusional or bad.

The language Vi used was ableist!

It ends up feeding into the harmful idea that mentally ill people are dangerous and need to be eradicated rather than victims of circumstances who need support, resources, and human empathy. Although yes, everyone is responsible for their own actions and human empathy can only go so far, associating a lack of morality with mental illness and seeing it as an individualistic moral failure is ridiculously harmful! I've been constantly seeing the internet diagnose random people with narcissism, bipolar disorder and even schizophrenia because they act in ways that aren't considered socially acceptable or they do something problematic (not all being intrinsic or only explainable through mental illness!). Even worse is that none of these diagnoses come from a place of concern or well meaning, it's an insult and it's to justify bullying and devaluing these people because of the idea that mentally ill people are too "far gone" to be worth compassion. It's an incredibly dehumanizing and ableist stigma that still persists. Mentally ill people still deserve to be listened to!

If Vi was gonna be mad at Jinx, she could've just stuck to the terrorism and her working for Silco, actual tangible actions worth holding her accountable for. Weaponizing her mental illness isn't that, it's just plain ableism!

Finally, we get to the end where Jinx and Vi can finally properly heal and rebuild their relationship but Warwick loses control and Jinx ends up sacrificing herself to save Vi. The s*icide ideation song picks back up as she makes the sacrifice...

At the end of the second act, Jinx loses Isha and Vander and we end up spending the entire third season seeing Jinx lose the will to live and it's incredibly distressing. We see depression eat her alive, we see her harming herself picking at her nail bed, we see her asking Cait to kill her already. We get a soundtrack literally about accepting death while Jinx attempts to take her life in slow motion with artistic visuals. Then we see her pull the pin multiple times as Ekko rewinds time. Big yikes! This isn't the first time Arcane portrayed s-cide attempts/ideation (Jayce, Viktor, Marcus) however the way it's done with Jinx felt far more brutal and romanticized that genuinely distressed me.

What keeps Jinx alive for a little longer is... joining a war. Prior to Jinx's s-cide attempt, Vi tells Jinx she can essentially redeem herself if she helped Piltover in their war against Noxus. Jinx very clearly heads off to k herself instead yet Vi interprets it as Jinx refusing to risk her life to protect her oppressors as if that's a crappy thing of Jinx to do. We later end up seeing Jinx helping in the war, redeeming herself again to Vi, as if she has to make herself useful to be of value.

I hate this ending, it doesn't even matter if she possibly survived in the end. What's insinuated is that her s-cide was inevitable and even necessary for her to be redeemed and find peace. The "Sacrificing yourself for redemption" trope is already bad enough as is but the fact that we've seen Jinx want to escape life makes it far more upsetting because it ends up being posed as the ideal ending for Jinx. This also perpetuates the idea that our worth is in our value to society; Jinx, a mentally ill impoverished hazbin with no one left, needed to be sacrificed for Vi, someone who's already met her potential to society with a partner, career, and patriotic conviction.

All of this ends up telling me that being mentally ill causes the suffering of people around me and that their suffering is on my conscience. That I should be expendable for them to make up for it. It's fucked up, I hate seeing Arcane perpetuate these ideas from the perspective of Vi who's values are portrayed as absolute. Joining the war and helping Piltover was the "right answer". Let's just forget there was supposed to already be a civil war between Piltover and the Undercity where Jinx was on the "wrong side", the thing that catalyzed Vi's ableist.

I needed a story of someone like Jinx, someone so misunderstood and traumatized, to find happiness and not just in an alternate universe or some hint that she might be alive. It was so painful to watch Jinx be robbed of any meaningful connections and relationships in a way that felt like she was being punished for how she turned out. When mentally ill people are socially isolated and vilified, we desperately need stories that allow them to bathe in the sunlight. I'm so deeply upset and heartbroken that Arcane ended up following an immensely ableist troped "fate" for Jinx...

[randomsufff]

I’m back Michie girlies and this has been on the dome for a while but I’ve been seeing people mention it and at least one fic has executed this idea (“I once was his tutor” I salute you 🫡) but I need to just present this idea anyways because it has COOKED for a while-

I think it would be absolutely fucking hilarious if Max had started treating Richie the way he did Grace. Like the whole, dumb himbo act where he laughs real hard at non-jokes and tries to rizz Richie up as he’s going to class.

In my head- this is connected to the “Richie tutors Max” universe, so in my mind- Richies been helping him out and he’s been getting to know the guy, Max either: 1) eventually realizes how much of a capital P Prude Grace is OR (the funnier option I think) 2) Grace, in her want to get thoughts of Max Jäegerman out of her head, goes so far in the opposite direction that she somehow accidentally sleeps with a woman and is no longer “forbidden fruit” as Max puts it. (Insert side story of Grace battling internalized homophobia as she developed a friends-with-benefits turned maybe actual relationship with…. idk Deb or Alice or someone.) Cue Max looking at Richie and being like “I can totally seduce this nerd, my skills aren’t lacking just because I couldn’t get Grace.. this is 100% not me subconsciously really liking the dude and wanting to genuinely date him and knowing no other way to outwardly express this”

ANYWAYS- point is I need Max to try to flirt with Richie in that himbo way that he did with Grace-and I need Richie “This projects on thermodynamics… what the fuck are you talking about???” Lipshitz to just be constantly confused on what’s happening to him.

AND THEN when he finally realizes that Max is trying to get with him, I need Mr. Richie “has definitely never been with or slept with anyone and is just as unhinged and horny as Ruth (need I remind you she said Stephanie was the object of both their sexual fantasies)” Lipshitz to look at Max, really debate over it, before going “I may not have standards but I, unfortunately, have morals” and that he couldn’t do anything with Max since he was… well…his and his friends bully for years.

Boom, kick start the redemption arc that starts with Max just wanting to sleep with Richie but shifts to genuinely wanting to date him and trying to open up/clean up his act.

(Also- to add to that ‘“Dirty Girl Soup” Richie version’ concept that I’ve seen somewhere- I think it would be so fucking funny if Max’s equivalent to this, scandalous, forbidden, sexual fantasy was just Richie being the most supportive, understanding and healthiest boyfriend ever. Just accidentally fantasizing them in the most domestic situation ever (you know, because it goes against his Literal Monster persona). Like Richie’s, i don’t fucking know, holding his hand as they get coffee together and is just so understanding and calming when Max attempts to bully this fantasy Richie, and Max-who is just swimming in toxic masculinity (but is super ok in knowing he’s bi. As people say- he’s an actual asshole but he will bully you using your correct pronouns damnit)- is just like “NO, what are these feelings??? Why do I feel like this??? This is so wrong… but why does this feel… actually nice???” Yeah… funny shit)