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sadokasochism · 8 months ago

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For me, the most heartbreaking aspect of Ivan is that the poor clueless bastard didn't have the tools to express his affection in any way that didn't involve violence or manipulation, or weren't too inscrutable, quiet, or unseen to be picked up by Till.

I definitely interpret Ivan as autistic for several reasons, a big one being their Segyein teacher's notes about him:

It's just. Classic ND behaviour to me.

Not only does expressing emotion and communicating the way other kids do not come naturally to Ivan, but it's not as if he's been given a great example of coping with this from the Segyein.

Ivan managed to mask in a way that made him popular with other students, and got him in the good graces of their captors. He did everything expected of him to survive and thrive in this environment.

Then he meets Till, inscrutable and very different to the other kids, just like Ivan is. Except, Till doesn't mask. He doesn't change or try to endear himself to their captors, and he doesn't bend to anyone, no matter how much he is hurt and punished for it.

This is a new situation for Ivan, and he's never had anything to compare his feelings to. He also can't figure out how to communicate with Till, every interaction, no matter how well meaning, seems to end in failure.

I bring your attention to the cheer up comic, and how, again, autistic this interaction feels:

There could be many reasons why Ivan chose to say what he did, but to me it feels like ND bluntness not being received well. And that's fair! From Till's perspective Ivan is being a jerk for no good reason.

Instead of responding with glee towards Till laying him out (as we see from Ivan when they're a bit older), Ivan justs seems... really confused. Like he didn't expect that statement to upset Till that much, and he didn't expect Till to respond in the way he did. Everything was fine a second ago, what went wrong?

Then, Ivan uses the phrase he learned from Till in an attempt to self sooth. It might have been the first example of comfort after an injury/hurt he had ever seen, given how he defaults to it. And it was from Till trying to cheer up a flower.

This also shows some of Till's blindspots. He has grown up having to be vigilant, because violence and hurt have been a core part of his upbringing. This leads to anything he doesn't immediately, clearly understand being perceived as a threat or a slight, and so he reacts violently to Ivan's statement.

I'll also draw your attention to this comic where, as far as we know, Ivan is simply stating a true fact in a blunt manner:

In my interpretation, these types of interactions keep adding up, and Ivan is grasping at straws the whole time, trying to be closer to Till and failing every time.

Eventually, the only surefire way to get Till's attention is to piss him off, provoke him, manufacture scenarios to talk to him. I'm not excusing this behaviour, but I understand where Ivan could be coming from, from the perspective of both an emotionally immature/stunted child and/or an ND child.

Despite how much they fight and bicker, at every moment it really mattered, Ivan was there for Till. It was always Ivan coming to free him, to take off his collar or gag, and it was Ivan who led their escape.

Ivan couldn't leave Till behind when he went back for Mizi. Even with the confirmation that Till would choose Mizi over Ivan every time, Ivan couldn't leave him.

The miscommunication goes two ways though. It's insane to think that Till didn't care about Ivan at all. They were close as kids, and I doubt Till ever forgot about the escape he gave up.

We have the graduation messages, where Ivan is able to write something that could be reasonably interpreted as affectionate or fond towards Till.

Meanwhile, Till's message-

If we're being charitable with our interpretations, we can say this was Till's way of saying 'of course I remember you' and attempting to communicate that Ivan HAD left a lasting impact on him.

However, how could any reasonable person be expected to get THAT out of 'you stole my fucking pencil'? Ivan could have taken this one of two ways:

1) Omg he remembers me 🥰

2) he leans into his 'i will never be loved back' bias and thinks that Till really doesn't care about him at all

Who the hell knows what goes through that weird little brain of his. But given how Round 6 went, and what Ivan had to say in the confession comic, he obviously didn't think his impact was significant enough.

Then Alien Stage happens, and in Round 3 Ivan is FINALLY communicating his feelings in a way that is vulnerable and might even have a chance of being understood as love and yearning!

Till is unconscious through it until the very end.

Then in the next round, Mizi goes missing, and Till can't care about anything anymore.

Ivan finds him after the private performance, takes off his gag, and just holds him. Again, Till is unconscious for all of this.

Then, in Round 6, not only is Till distraught from the disappearance of Mizi, but he's given no time to process what the fuck is going on before Ivan is dead at his feet. Till might have finally had a chance to really understand where Ivan was coming from, how he really felt all this time, and Ivan DIES.

And still, Ivan's most transparent act of affection? It's delivered with violence. He's kissing a distraught Till who tries to push him away, and neither of them are happy. He puts his hands around Till's neck, not really hurting him, but it's enough to look convincing for the cameras, and it's enough for Till to go limp and wait for death. Ivan's final loving act is to give Till a soft look with blood pouring out of his mouth, that Till still does not see, and then let go before falling to the ground.

It's just a collection of failures. We see from Ivan that he truly loved Till, made a lot of selfless decisions for his sake, was filled with so much longing and affection, but he just couldn't get it across in a way that doesn't seem fucking deranged from an outsider's perspective. And when he DID manage to communicate his feelings more clearly, it was to a Till that was unconscious, or too distracted/dense/traumatised to see Ivan's actions as ones of love.

There's no guarantee that Till would have reciprocated even if Ivan had managed to communicate his feelings in a healthier way, but there was at least a CHANCE. At least Ivan could have gotten some closure, even if he was rejected.

Instead Ivan died thinking he was completely unloved by the person who he cared about more than anything else, and his last ditch effort to make Till understand was deeply flawed and uncomfortable.

If these kids had grown up any other way, maybe they could have had a chance. Unfortunately, the world they were in didn't equip them to not hurt eachother in their attempts to grow closer.

#alien stage #alien stage ivan #alien stage till #alnst #alnst ivan #alnst till #ivantill #tillivan #alien stage round 6 #if you saw me edit this a bunch of times trying to link the masterdoc post no you didnt

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ayakashiz · 9 months ago

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Alien Stage R6 Analysis

VERY LONG compilation of my interpretations, impressions and unanswered questions about Round 6 of Alien Stage. I just wanted to write this to put all my thoughts in one place so I can finally rest (in pieces). TW for mentions of suic*de/suic*dal ideation.

The most debated is no doubt the kiss/choking scene and Ivan’s motivation for doing so in the first place.

I think from the very beginning, even before R3, Ivan was planning to go out with a bang. That’s the immediate impression I got from the comic where he mocks/criticizes Sua for planning to “selfishly” die for Mizi and feel good being the “heroine” rather than having to deal with the trauma of being the one left behind.

(I'm too lazy to edit the whole translation as of now, but might do so when I have more time.)

Ivan tells her how he’s “relieved that he’s not the only who’s that twisted” = He’s comparing himself to Sua. He thinks they’re both ‘twisted’ for planning to do the same thing, but from Ivan’s perspective, he at least isn’t fooling himself into thinking his motives are altruistic. He tasted the feeling of being ‘abandoned’, and he knows he doesn’t want to experience it twice.

He also probably thought that his death wouldn’t be as impactful on Till as Sua’s death on Mizi, and therefore his own selfishness is more justified in his mind. This most likely plays a role in how cold and biting his words are towards Sua –he’s jealous of that difference between them.

I hadn’t noticed this detail the first time I watched the video: Not only did Till look absolutely miserable and defeated from the get go, but he completely gave up and stopped singing at some point. If you look at the video, we can hear the audio that was supposed to be sung, but Till is quiet and still, and THIS is the moment Ivan chooses to act.

Although they do not show the votes at that particular moment, stopping mid song would have definitely taken a hit to Till’s score as it’s basically forfeiting –a huge contrast to his previous match where he didn’t even let his opponent utter a single line.

In response, Ivan doesn’t just walk towards him but throws his microphone to the ground, explicitly forfeiting as well in order to then pull a drastic move like it was foreshadowed in his interview.

The kiss itself imo was the less calculated/arguably unplanned part. He could have just choked Till from the start and it would have gotten him the same if not better results (since it was the act of violence against another contestant that ultimately lowered his score and got the counter to stop).

That kiss was authentic and for himself entirely, both as a last desperate attempt at conveying his feelings and a selfish way of leaving a strong impression on Till that he wouldn’t be able to forget (a hypocritical move going back to how he criticized Sua). In that sense, I don’t think Ivan was seriously trying to take Till down with him –although that’s up to interpretation. As I see it, that would contradict his actions up until that point.

Till was VERY CLEARLY suic*dal (once again, he gave up singing), and after the initial shock of Ivan squeezing his neck, this fiery, rebellious man who is KNOWN to fight tooth and nail, simply closed his eyes and relaxed his body, waiting for Ivan to end him without fighting at all.

The thing is, no matter how suic*dal one may be, the fighting response when being actually suffocated is automatic and completely involuntary. People mention there not being marks on Till’s neck but I think the most telling sign is him not going red, not squirming, not struggling or holding onto Ivan’s wrists (again, expected involuntary responses), his eyes not watering or having blurry vision while we see Ivan from his POV, not opening his mouth even a little to gasp for air and not coughing or gasping either when he was finally released.

Ivan definitely had him in a strong grip, might have even made him a bit lightheaded, but the reason why Till could look so relaxed in the first place is because he had given up and was waiting for Ivan to go ahead. If his closed eyes and limp posture were due to the choking itself, he would have fallen or stumbled when being let go, but we see that his eyes open as soon as he feels Ivan’s hands slipping away and he looks shocked instead.

So then what was Ivan’s motivation, if not to kill him? Yes, there’s the already discussed plan to get himself disqualified. But Ivan glances at the screen only a few seconds after he starts the choking, confirming that the voting had in fact stopped with Till having the higher score. He then goes for one last ‘goodbye’ kiss before continuing to choke him, holding his grip even as he starts getting shot.

We see a closeup of him, his eyes and hands trembling, looking more frustrated/emotional than in Till’s first POV where he looks rather stoic. It makes me think that the reason he refused to let go was simply because he wanted Till to look at him.

They strongly imply throughout the whole video that being annoying or mean or violent was the only way Ivan learnt how to make Till focus his full attention on him, but now even as he’s threatening his life, even as he himself is dying, even after that kiss, Till wouldn’t look.

It took him getting fatally wounded and realizing there was no turning back to reach a state of acceptance. His bittersweet expression here reminds me A LOT of his smile after Till runs back during the meteor scene, although this one seems a lot more tender. He seems to accept the fact that Till will never love him back, but Ivan cannot stop loving him anyways and he at least got to put his feelings out there.

(The parallels here are driving me insane. The way there is light in his eyes in both instances as he looks at Till even while 'losing him' in a way. The struggle between wanting to posses him yet realizing his free spirit/strong will is part of what he loves about him. That last genuine gaze from a character who spent his whole life putting on a mask. Yes I am very normal about this.)

Until then, Ivan’s more tender/vulnerable side is only shown while Till is unconscious or looking away.

(That soft, loving nuzzle to Till's face has me in SHAMBLES.)

But ironically, it’s only when he releases him and shows him this vulnerability without a mask that Till really looks at him for the first time. I’d go as far as to say that it was this moment, and not the kiss, that finally made Till understand Ivan’s feelings. And in turn Ivan gets that little shot of euphoria as he falls to the ground.

Going back to the survivor’s guilt… I can only imagine it’ll go completely downhill for Till from now on. Not only does he already think Mizi might be dead and is angry at himself that he couldn’t save her (as seen in the shot where he punches his own picture), but now he has most likely realized that Ivan intentionally fumbled their match for his sake –which would lead to the realization that he was the reason why Ivan chose to run back to Anakt Garden after him in the first place, and that choice ultimately lead to his death.

Even though we see them fighting a lot as children through the videos and comics, it’s also implied that they were always together and they shared some quiet moments –the “Mizi didn’t play with you, I played with you” art, all that art of the main 4 playing together, those bright smiles as they ran away together during the meteor shower scene and Till looking so guilty when he let go of his hand.

There are a few cute doodles of them for those who are on Patreon, and some more lore in the Anakt Garden kit –so they were at the very least friends in their own way (as best as 2 very traumatized and abused children could), constantly fighting and making up. Which God… it shows that despite appearances Till must have actually had the patience of a saint when they were little lmao.

But what I’m trying to say is that despite what Ivan may have thought, his death will most definitely have an impact on Till and the narrative going forward, and I’m excited to find out how that reflects in the final round (if the resistance doesn’t manage to get back up in time to disrupt it).

Despite how much I adored (and SUFFERED WITH) this round, I still have MANY questions that were left unanswered, both about Ivan and Till, and the lore in general, and I wonder if there’ll be time to answer them all, as I can imagine the next MV will be focused on Luka’s perspective, the only one we haven’t been presented with.

One of the most pressing questions being: What’s the relationship between Ivan and that alien dog? Did he tame it? It is implied that it was Ivan who somehow led Till and Mizi to it in the first place in that one scene, and if so I wonder what his motivation was? Normally jealousy would be the first thing to come to mind but Ivan wasn’t interested in Till until AFTER he saw him stand up to the beast to protect Mizi, so it couldn’t have been that.

This is something that was also teased on Patreon and I was looking forward to the explanation on the MV, but it never came, and now Ivan is dead, so the next video will most likely not be too concerned with his backstory any longer. (Which, also, I was really curious about his life in the slums before being captured, auctioned and brought to Anakt, as that would have played a huge role in his twisted personality/dark tendencies –once again teased on Patreon very briefly, but not explained beyond that frame of him looking famished.)

The second is, how is Ivan able to open Till’s collar/muzzle so easily? This is a question I’ve been having since R3, but chalked it up to Ivan being sneaky and figuring out some kind of code to the cell door and that somehow automatically deactivating the locks on the restraints… or something. But with how many times he does it in R6 with just a touch it’s very clear that that isn’t the case and also imo they’re trying to point this out as a significant detail.

It may turn out that I’m just looking too much into it, but I find it really curious and interesting. Not only is he the only child without a collar (Mizi and Sua still had them despite being just as well behaved as him), but he seems to be the only one able to take them off –or at least Till’s. I’m pretty sure the children wouldn’t normally be able to remove them by themselves as it seems to be a control mechanism. So how can Ivan? This might explain a lot about how they were able to escape, and also add a layer of tragedy knowing that Ivan could have chosen to escape by himself at any point, but refused to leave Till behind.

Last but not least there’s all the human experimentation Till was subjected to, which was the main topic of the teaser and we see the same images show up in the very beginning of the MV. They help emphasize Till’s suffering and distressed state of mind, but then they’re never expanded on or mentioned at all for the rest of the video. That’s a huge piece of lore that I also hope isn’t forgotten.

I mean, I really doubt it will. So far VIVINOS & co. have been incredible with their ability to hold back information and release it at the moment where it’s the most impactful, which is refreshing to see. So I trust we’ll get some answers eventually.

Really curious to know why they would experiment on an ALNST contestant in the first place, especially one that is undoubtedly talented and described as a musical genius (aka. has good odds of doing well on stage and earning the segyein revenue). A very plausible theory might just be that he was just getting constantly drugged to make him less of a threat/more submissive –like we see on the karaoke room scene. But it might as well be something bigger.

As for my expectations for the next round… I’m still just trying to process this one, as you can see by the sheer amount of text. There are many things left to address, and the Hyuna/Luka confrontation has been strongly teased. I wonder also, if the round goes on without interruption, what would Luka’s strategy against Till be? Would he go for provocation again, trying to imitate Mizi/hint to his recent trauma with Ivan? It probably won’t be that simple.

I mean, VIVINOS has been known for subverting our expectations with each round:

The ominous/callous framing that was given to Ivan by the end of Black Sorrow and the art that followed, making us suspicious of his intentions, only to have him die for love. The lifeless/doll-like framing given to Luka, vulnerable and cornered by flashing lights, only to have him be the cruelest/most calculating one (that we know so far). The rebellious, rowdy, willing to do anything to survive framing given to Till, only to have his fighting spirit completely break and willingly waiting to die by Ivan’s hands. The naive, complacent and passive image given to Mizi, only to have her snap, beat the shit out of Luka and join the rebellion –and with how things are going (and her being the protagonist) I wouldn’t be surprised if she, and not Hyuna (the one who was framed as the most strong and reliable, giving us a false sense of security going into R6), is who will have to try and rescue Till (and Luka???).

There are still a ton of things that keep me awake at night about R6 –my favorite character dying aside. I could talk about it forever, but I’ll leave it here.

Feel free to share your theories, delusions, interpretations or any detail I might have missed with me. God knows we need group therapy after this as the cute chibi keychains can only heal us so far. Thanks for reading my rambles if you made it this far. :’)

#alien stage #alnst #에이스테 #ivantill #vivinos #ivan alnst #till alnst #im GOING INSANE idk if you can tell... hahah #the only reason i didn't flood this with more videos and pictures is cause tumblr gave me a limit of 30 :')

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sairenharia · 6 months ago

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Why Chloe Deserved A Miraculous

Its a thought that's been stewing in my head and the more I thought about it, the more I realized it was true. Chloe was entitled to a Miraculous.

From a Doylist Perspective.

When there is conversations of if Chloe was entitled to a Miraculous is always presented from a Watsonian perspective. For those who don't know, Watsonian means the perspective of someone inside the story. A character. Doylist is the perspective of those in the real world. The author and audience.

The problem I see from fandom discourse is how often people don't actually consider the tools in a story. Often they take a Watsonian perspective, talk about what is right and sensible and should be how things work if this was a real situation. But the thing about stories is they have messages. They have tools and metaphors and themes to help display these messages. Sure, shows are about entertainment, but a story always has some kind of point. It may not be a moral lesson, it may not be some grand philosophy, but any story worth telling says SOMETHING. It takes a stance. The Fast and the Furious is all about doing cool stunts with cars, but it also has a message of doing things for family because if you just want to see cool car stunts, just go watch cool car stunts, but no, people want at least a little humanity in the car stunts, so there is a message of family. Sharing is caring, do your best, the heat death of the universe comes for us all, the messages can be vast, but there's some point of emotional reality to invest us in this specific media.

If we talk about Chloe and the Miraculous from a Watsonian perspective, no, she is not entitled to a Miraculous. No one is entitled to an object of power. Not even Marinette nor Adrien are entitled to their Miraculous.

But superpowers aren't real. Superpowers have always been a tool to emphasize a point. The stories of superman only focused on his powers are boring, but when you tell stories of how he tries to fit into a world that is not made for him, stories of how much he loves this world despite how easy it could be to be cruel, it gets interesting. The reason superhero comics started is there was a want to show that there can be incredibly powerful people who choose to be good. To choose to make the world a better place.

Superpowers made just to be cool and show off are boring. There is only so much you can watch a fight with a cool power before it gets dull and repetitive. But you relate the powers, the struggles of using the powers, to the person wielding them, the story has a lot more staying power. The powers say something about the person, and is part of their development.

And honestly, Miraculous is a good case for why this is important.

Because good god, most of the superhero team is boring.

And I don't just mean because they're good people, so there's no spice, though that's also true, but because the powers aren't really used to emphasize anything about the character. Max has portals. Why? His mom wants to be an astronaut, but we never really hear about Max wanting to travel. Doorman is a better example of a portal hero because he loves going to other places and learning about them.

Now portals are good for a tactician....except Max is never the tactician despite the fact we know he's brilliant and is good at video games. He just does as he's told by Ladybug for where he should put his portals. Its so close, but its not utilized.

And that is the case for most of the superheroes. Like the bones are there, but nothing is properly utilized. Sabrina is definitely a dog, good at getting things, and is in fact well practiced in recognizing what things may or may not be important. But we've never actually gotten to focus on her BEING a superhero, she only had a small cameo with the power, basically. Same with Ivan, really. They're pretty perfect for their powers and it suits their personalities, but none of it is EXPLORED. And that's the case with most of the heroes.

Juleka and Rose were pretty good at using the Miraculous to develop more of someone's character and emphasize a strength about another in turn. These are good hero episodes because we learned more about them and their journey.

Kagami's first episode with the dragon showed off more of her, such as she could be reckless, which is new information, but we learn a lot about her without it, and nothing new beyond that.

Luka could have actually been incredibly good because the snake both emphasizes a big part of him, and something he needs to work on. Luka is someone who steps back and watches. He observes. However, he has a problem where he often is too willing to step back. But with the snake needs someone who can observe AND act. So its a Miraculous that uses an important part of his personality, but could have also helped him grow.

And the rest are just...nothing.

There is a little for Nino and Alya. Nino is definitely more bold about defending his friends than he was at first, and Alya learns to be better about secrets, but these are the primary secondary heroes. We should have seen a ton of impact and development due to them having the Miraculous.

Here is the stance Miraculous should be taking in their story.

The desperation of those trapped and the power of being given good options.

Most of the Akumas are people who are trapped. They feel powerless. They are desperate to escape their problem and feel like they have no proper recourse with things are they are. How accurate this is varies, but this is how they feel in the moment, and that is what Gabriel preys on. These people agree to the deal because they don't feel like they will be helped any other way.

Ladybug and Chat Noir are meant to bring hope to those who felt hopeless and chose a terrible way to try and escape. They are support. They are a hand people desperately need.

So by that same token, the Miraculous should be a good way for people who feel trapped to be given an option, OR give those people the ability to extend their own hands to help others.

While it doesn't have to every time, it should often be the case those who are given a Miraculous; A, dealing with a huge problem and the Miraculous helps them solve that problem, regardless to the Akuma being related. Like if Juleka was working on trying to speak up even if the Akuma wasn't her parents and the Tiger still helped her do that. B, they are related to the Akuma and why they feel trapped, so they are working through their own issues with the important person. Like Rose when Juleka felt guilty. Or C, the person wants to find a way to help in general and kind of go how it went with Nino becoming Carapace. Where they were trying to be that hand a person needed, and earn the Miraculous, and that helps them on their journey to provide more support and help.

But its often it is someone they know, but them being the hero doesn't REALLY matter. Penalteam, the people were just there, these specific people didn't matter. Why did Zoe need to be Vesperia? Anyone could have taunted Chloe and she got turned into a banana real fast, her being the Bee didn't really bring a lot, to the bee, to her, or even to Chloe, and then she proceeded to just not bring much as the Bee, to the story, or herself.

Now part of this problem is that Marinette is not allowed to not learn a lesson, and has to be the one to save the day. These heroes do have skills. They have things they could be good at. But often....the plan is just what Marinette says. These heroes are not allowed to have agency.

They can't make decisions on their own.

Often times, they're just bodies being told to do the power without the ability to make the decision how and when. Sometimes they let the heroes do things and make decisions, but nine times out of ten, its Marinette who says who does what and when and her mental health is degrading because of it.

The Akumas are stories that always at least tell us something about the person because we see what problems hit them hard. There is something to learn, a bit of conflict to develop from.

The Miraculous should be following that trend, but in a positive way, but...doesn't.

All that being said.

Chloe was entitled to the Miraculous.

Because here is the stance Miraculous takes.

Someone is trapped in a situation and chooses to lash out violently and while that violence can not be permitted to continue, the heroes offer their support so the victim can feel like they have another option.

This is the story of Miraculous crystalized. People who feel alone and helpless are easily convinced to hurt others until someone is willing to help them despite this harm.

Chloe is the story of Miraculous.

Akumas are a metaphor.

And Chloe is the reality.

A child who is alone. Who feels trapped in her situation. Who doesn't know what else to do. So she does the only thing she knows how. She lashes out. She hurts people. She keeps them distant because then it doesn't hurt as much when they leave, or when they treat her like dirt.

Chloe is an Akuma personified, but her problems are brief moments. They're not a bad day that someone took advantage of. They are ever present and continuous and more over, reinforced to continue.

Chloe knows being a brat gets her what she wants from her father and was never taught to not be like that. Because he didn't discipline her, because her mother acted like that, because all adults around her was staff. Making demands is what she was TAUGHT and learned, through observation and guidance.

A behavior she continued to do with kids, and she found out teachers responded to the same threats and was never properly stopped. Other kids, reasonably, didn't want to deal with her, or submitted to her like Sabrina.

Chloe was not never taught how to be good. She was, in fact, very much taught to NOT be good. Her parents both set a terrible example. Her father is a corrupt politician. He may spoil her, but he we know he bribes and blackmails people, plus, you know, abandoned his daughter and technically kidnapped Zoe. This is not a paragon of a man. Then there was her mother. But she had a choice, listen to the man who had to weasel and cheat and play back handed games to get what he wanted, or the woman who got anything and everything she wanted...of course she would try to be the woman who seemed to get everything her way.

Because if her mother got everything she wanted, if Chloe was like her, maybe she could get everything SHE wanted.

Except it wasn't working.

But Chloe wasn't taught it was because she was cruel. She just started to believe she wasn't GOOD ENOUGH.

Maybe if she was as great as her mother, it would work.

By the time she would be old enough to recognize that wasn't how the world worked...well, by then, most of her peers hated her.

And here is something I think goes under the radar about Zoe.

Zoe knows how to act like Chloe. Audrey didn't blink at it. Zoe defaulted to the same behavior as Chloe. Zoe said she put on an act and she was tired of it.

Zoe WAS CHLOE.

And we know what happened with Zoe. Zoe stopped acting like Chloe. And then she got bullied. People were mean and cruel and put cockroaches in her locker and she only had one friend.

I'm sure that's why Zoe moved to Paris. Zoe went to her mom because she wanted a clean slate. She wanted the bullying to stop.

Even then, she struggled to stop. She defaulted to her habit, and we see that she CONTINUED the act around the hotel for some weeks after, because it was a hard habit to break.

But then...

Zoe got support. A hand was held out to her. Marinette gave her a chance, and so did everyone else, and Zoe took it because she wanted to be herself and she wanted to stop being cruel. Of course she's nice. She was given the space to be so.

Chloe is never given that support.

Chloe doesn't know how to be kind. She doesn't know how to be nice.

But the greatest tragedy is Chloe does know how to be GOOD.

Out of all the heroes, besides Chat, to a lesser degree Alya, and Alix and Luka by nature of their Miraculous, Chloe shows the most agency as a superhero. All the other heroes have their hands held by Ladybug. She tells them what to do, to an overly specific degree, and they are just bodies to use a tool. Chloe? Chloe acts on her own. To good and bad effect. Discounting the whole Queen Wasp break down, just when Chloe is actually acting as a superhero, she doesn't wait for Ladybug to tell her everything all the time. She calls out to her father, which was a mistake, but then there is every other time she's Queen Bee...

And she's fantastic at it.

Miraculer, she almost had Mayura's Miraculous.

Star Train, she gets people away from the Akuma.

In Bakerix, she's the last the to leave the train car.

In Ladybug, she's defending Sabrina.

In Style Queen, played Style Queen in an effort to find a way to save Adrien.

In Heroes Day, she is a great teammate. Keep in mind, everyone on the team knows who Chloe is. Ladybug was desperate and doesn't fully trust Chloe as a general rule. Rena Rouge and Carapace definitely don't trust her at all. Chat Noir is the only one who believes in Chloe as a person.

And yet, throughout the entire fight, Chloe is keeping up and picking up the slack with everyone else. She fights, she keeps civilians from being hurt, her synergy is on fire despite the lack of trust. When Rena Rouge and Carapace go down, she is quick to try and protect them and even after two EXTREMELY dangerous Akuma show up by way of her parents, who are both gunning for her real hard, she holds her own for a while and even then, she had to be mind controlled to stop and to feel negative emotions. It took FOUR AKUMAS gunning for her specifically to corrupt her, akums who are made to mess her up mentally to boot. When they confront Gabriel at the end, she prepares venom without being asked, to have a back up for taking him down. She makes decisions and when she was trusted to act as a hero, they are largely good ones.

And she never once complained about the mental hardship of what she went through. Because that's the thing, all her times as Queen Bee are super intense. They are her loved ones she's fighting, they are incredibly powerful Akumas. She fought a frickin' army.

And everyone...

Just insults her.

She risked her life for people and no one cared.

She fought her family and no one cared.

Chloe doesn't know how to be nice. Nor kind. But she was so good. And while the next day, people appreciated her, it was only a day.

And the tragedy is Chloe didn't immediately go back to being a bully. After Despair Bear, Chloe's bullying habits took an extreme nose dive. We only see her being unreasonably cruel a few times. After Maledikator, the only time is when she bullies Aurore and when she teamed up with Marinette, but also Marinette was with her and they were both doing it for fear of losing Adrien reasons. Not reasonable, but also not just to be cruel and honestly, her plan was fairly benign. She wanted Kagami to leave, not even humiliate her. And even Aurore is because Chloe was reaching the point she did in Miraculer where she was doubting Ladybug's trust in her and as she is want to do, she lashed out.

Most of the time when we see Chloe, what we see is her bragging about being Queen Bee. Which, sure, isn't a great thing...

But better a braggart than a bully. And when things go wrong, she tries to use her status to help reassure and guide people, which is actually a pretty good idea. Akumas are attracted to negative emotions. If she can reassure them, then less likely of them getting akumatized. It may be bragging, but it could help.

Chloe may not have been picture perfect nice, but we literally have an entire classroom full of perfectly nice people. She may not be humble, but bragging is not a damnable offense. But Chloe was legitimately trying to be a better person. She put herself in between others and danger. She had faith and belief that there were solutions. Even without the Miraculous, she tried to help people.

She may have wanted appreciate and gratitude for it, but what's even sadder is she didn't require it.

Chloe believed in Ladybug for a long time. She believed Ladybug would trust her again. She believed she could be given a Miraculous again, and all on her own, ALL ON HER OWN, she was trying to be a better person.

Its actually amazing how good Chloe was being despite the fact no one was helping her.

Because that is the thing.

Zoe got support and help.

Chloe didn't.

Every. Single. Time. Chloe tried to do something different, something not cruel, she is rejected. She tries to join the art club and she's mocked out of it. She tries to be class representative, a job no one else wanted for years, and she loses it as soon as someone did challenge her. She auditions, legitimately, for a music video, with eight years of practice, and she loses it because she isn't nice enough.

She stops bullying, tries to be a reassuring presence, and she is treated with suspicion and derision.

And still.

And STILL.

That isn't what breaks her.

What breaks her is the realization the only time where her efforts were appreciated was taken away. And even then, she holds onto the pieces. Holds onto hope that maybe she would be given a new chance.

Her parents are in danger. The reason she was given she couldn't be a hero is because she and her loved ones would be in danger.

Except her loved ones were in danger.

She was in danger.

Not having a Miraculous didn't change anything. It didn't keep them safe, it didn't keep her safe.

And its only then, after months of no one believing in her for more than two days, of no one holding out their hand, helping her, supporting her, believing her, with the one person she thought DID believe in her proved that she didn't believe in her, and couldn't even give her the safety that not having a Miraculous was supposed to bring.

For months, Chloe only thought Ladybug believed she could be good.

Adrien wanted her to be less cruel, but Chloe knew her being good wasn't necessary for him.

Nor was it for Sabrina.

But Ladybug?

Ladybug needed her to be good to believe in her, and she thought Ladybug did.

Chloe was able to largely bite back her desires to lash out at people based purely on the fact one person, ONE SINGULAR PERSON, needed her to be good, and believed in her ability to be so. It got her derision. It got her suspicion. It got people comparing her to villains. It got her dismissal. But she still tried. She still believed.

A person who didn't really believe in Chloe very much.

And there is also the Watsonian argument that Marinette doesn't owe it to Chloe to help her improve AND THIS IS INCREDIBLY VALID and honestly, in a perfect world, it would be great if it was Adrien who helped Chloe improve.

Or you know, Zoe. Someone who has a clean slate with Chloe and understands where she's coming from and could help her.

But no, this is the Marinette Has To Solve Everything Show.

So from a Doylist view, it IS Marinette who has to help Chloe, but also the Watsonian problem could be helped if it was CLEARLY ESTABLISHED that Marinette knows she doesn't HAVE to help Chloe, and people aren't pressuring her to do so (coughBustiercough) because that is a bad message...

But Marinette can CHOOSE to help her and make that clear.

Because Marinette has seen a lot of Chloe and could understand that she really does just need a little more help. That Chloe needed just a bit more support and help. And, you know, didn't actively encourage Chloe to please her abuser.

But we're going from the Doylist view and we can solve the Marinette being the one to help Chloe problem by not having it be Marinette, but LADYBUG.

And this?

This is why I say Chloe was entitled to a Miraculous.

Because Chloe is the reality of the stance of the show, and so helping her problem with the metaphors would go a long way.

You see, Chloe doesn't know Ladybug is Marinette. And Marinette knows being Ladybug means being the bigger person. Ladybug believes in people. Ladybug helps everyone she can. Its not about the victim helping their bully, its the superhero choosing to help someone who NEEDS HELP.

Chloe is stuck in her situation. Her mother will always be emotionally abusive. Her father will always be an enabler. She can try to change, but no one will BELIEVE in her change. She will be derided and mocked and treated poorly because no one is willing to give her the chance to grow, and they certainly won't help.

Frankly, its a miracle that Chloe's Akumas are so merciful.

Because Banana Queen is the most destructive of Chloe's Akuma forms. Most of Chloe's Akuma forms don't care about HURTING people. They care about WINNING. She either wants to win or for people to just listen to her.

But give Chloe the Bee Miraculous, and suddenly things change.

Chloe feels like she has OPTIONS as Queen Bee. She doesn't feel she has to meet her mother's expectations as much if she's Queen Bee. She has people who trust and depend on her. At least right after she saves people, she gets a little praise, a little belief.

And people may say being a hero for glory and attention is a bad thing, but the thing is, Chloe's need for glory and attention is about being ACKNOWLEDGED. As feeling like people value and care about her. This is a BASIC HUMAN NEED and she doesn't know another way to get it. Its not like she's demanding physical things for her heroics.

She just wants to be appreciated.

By giving Chloe a Miraculous, she is given the tools to try and be good. She is given an escape from her situation. She is given SUPPORT in her efforts because the other heroes have to support her.

And over time...

That trust will grow.

Because what Chloe doesn't know, all her classmates are the other heroes.

And suddenly, all her classmates will see her as a different person. They will see what she's like when the chips are down. How much effort she's willing to put in. How seriously she takes the job.

Is she still a braggart? Sure. Is she still rude as hell? Absolutely.

But she will risk it all to help people, without asking for anything in return except a little faith.

Chloe is entitled to a Miraculous.

Because her story without a Miraculous is a story of a little girl who no one wanted to help, who were unwilling to offer her help because she lashed out while trying to survive a situation she couldn't escape, and because it wasn't super charged by a terrorist, she was deemed unworthy of it and instead deserving of isolation and constant emotional abuse.

But with a Miraculous?

Chloe is a girl who, when given a little faith, a little trust, a little help, returned it tenfold. Who puts her all in trying to be the best hero she could be. Is she imperfect? Sure. But she's giving it her all. (And frankly, she's spicy and it makes for entertaining character dynamics. You can have a character be a jerk and good, tsunderes are popular for a reason.) And as she gets more trust, as she gets more help, as she is offered that hand of help over and over again, she would continue to improve.

And as she's given power, she uses that same faith to figure out how to offer her hand to others. To help them. To spare them the same pain she suffered.

Because that is what given to the Akuma victims. They are given a little help, and a little power to break free of their magically abusive mindsets.

To have someone go from the continuing the cycle of abuse to someone who would save other people from that?

That is a real superhero story.

Chloe is undeserving from a Watsonian perspective.

But she's so very deserving from a Doylist perspective.

#chloe bourgeois #miraculous ladybug #character study #story elements

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sunfish5149 · 5 months ago

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After rewatching round 6 for the nth time I just realized Till Win is reflected in Ivan's blood and OH. MY BMFUCCKIGBGOOOODDDD I HATE THEM I HATE THEM O HATE TJEM they could never make me hate you ivan.

Till standing next to Ivan while his body is still cooling feels awfully a lot like how a person would mourn at their loved one's grave, but I think that there's a lot more going on inside Till's head, and this just saddens me. I would crumble personally if I was him, because to me, Ivan's death also feels like a slap to the face I guess? Because until now his crush on Mizi allowed him to be selfish, to believe that once she was gone, he would be left all alone. He gave up his will to live, accepted defeat without further struggle, because he idolized and idealized Mizi to a point where his whole life depended on her existence. Perhaps he does have a crush on Mizi, but I fully believe that it partly stems from the love and adoration he saw Mizi offer to Sua, almost like "what if I could have that too?". He could not bear to part with the love and salvation he saw within Mizi, to the point where he gave away his freedom just to be near her, just for the chance that maybe he'd finally know what it feels like to be wanted, to be loved. He selfishly cut away at all the bad parts in this picture that he did not want to see, the worthless parts, the painful ones, the suffering he has endured at the hands of his captors, and ended up cutting away at the people that might've cared for him, that still do, until nothing but Mizi remained, who he foolishly believed to be able to offer him what he so desperately wanted. He made himself believe that he was alone, up until he truly, truly was. Until when can a man doggedly chase after one person until the death of what I dare call " the closest thing to family he has ever had" drop like flies around him? Round 6 offers us an answer.

I believe that part of the reason why he stood there as Ivan bled out is him processing that someone actually cared about him, loved the parts of Till that he saw to be loveless. It also feels like a wake-up call, the cut up picture that he has constructed his life around has finally been proven as the lie it is. He can no longer be selfish enough to close his eyes on reality, on his obsessive idealization for someone who will never, who cannot save him, on the fact that Mizi already loves somebody else so dearly, because the love he was searching for in someone, to be returned, was right next to him all along.

Too bad he only noticed Ivan when he was bleeding out at his feet. This is the closest thing to salvation Till will ever get from someone, to love so dearly one would give away their life without hesitation, to throw away their freedom, to not cut away at the corners of this picture, but to see it and love it and do everything to preserve it. Should Till look at such a picture, he would find the pieces of paper he has cut of himself which he believed to be loveless, reflected back at him in that puddle of blood. (I wrote this part fully relying on the muscle memory of my keyboard because my tears were deeply obstructing my vision)

This sacrifice will either ruin Till or give him motivation to live and the tenacity to fight back and free himself from the prison he has willingly walked in, and to finally accept that Mizi is a lesbiab and a ferocious grieving woman kisser. oh my god.

Edit: I JUST REALIZED MIZI ALSO IDOLIZES SUA THE SAME WAY TILL DOES WITH MIZI I HATE THEM I HATE TJEM J HATWHENM

Edit 2: this rant is lowkey outdated because first of all, I feel like I insulted Till's love for Mizi. Just as Ivan loved Till for his tenacity and fighting spirit, and whatever else he saw in that wet cat of a man, so did Till love Mizi, for her innocent happiness and love that poured out of her. She was the only one out of them who was blissfully unaware to the pain and suffering of the humans, and the shit the aliens put the rest through, the fact that Till was attracted to her partly because of that makes me feel miserable. I do wonder what he will think, should he survive and see just how much Mizi has changed, how she has grown to fight for what she wants to protect.

I also feel that I have underestimated Till's relation to Ivan, he truly did care for him, Ivan was just too cryptic to express himself

#alien stage #alnst ivan #alnst till #ivantill #alnst mizi #alnst round 6 #alnst round 7 #this was a wholeass #character study #im gonna go sob hysterically #ALNST #alnst

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crustyfloor · 2 months ago

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Brain vomit...I am insanely jealous of the people who can get the new merch. And I am planning an elaborate heist. But aside from that, I'm also crazy over the lore implications of the new photo-card designs...

Of course, they're all suffering as per usual. But it's symbolized by cracks in their skin. When I saw that, I immediately linked it back to the collapse of barriers, secrets, structures, etc. The hearts, however, confused me a bit. But I suppose it's because the reason they all "broke" is ultimately because of their love.

This is probably the most distressed Ivan has ever looked in a photo card, and really, he's honest. The tone of his card is sickeningly oversaturated and overwhelming, and his emotions are visceral, I also find it interesting how the cracks are littered all over his face, and the hearts leak out like that from the neck--and Ivan holds his face like he's trying to "fix" it, or in other words, "keep it together" as he's breaking down and becoming vulnerable, he has to cover up his expression behind something more appealing as he always does. He's also wearing his Anakt Garden uniform. When he was a child, he was just learning how to develop his mask. But even then, he faltered sometimes, Ivan's automatic response is always to try to fix it, even if he's underplaying the severity of his feelings, it's what he has to do regardless, I love his card for that portrayal when he tries to keep one wound closed, another wound opens, its erratic and uncontrollable, like his true emotions. When I see him trying, it looks like it's hard because, well--he's breaking down. Normally, you can't just bounce back from that, so in this rare moment, he struggles with how to deal with it. (A certain desperation to keep up the act?) (His eyes. I really like his eyes in this PC, it's more akin to those moments when his true expression comes out, in those very rare moments)

And then there's Till, I feel pain when my wife feels pain. His expression, too, is very overwhelming. Like he's suffocating too, But his cracks are minimal, not because his pain is small but because vulnerability--something he loathes, is coming to the surface. In tears, Till is suppressing his emotions. Who he bleeds for is ambiguous here, you could say the hearts are for Ivan or for Mizi, but I think it's both. Because he hides from the both of them and eventually the love he feels for them both seeps out one way or the other like a slow leak through a crack in the wall, he's spent so many years building a fortress of a barrier to emotionally separate himself from others, it's his way of protecting himself. But at the peak of his suffering, long too deep into this hell, losing Mizi and then Ivan, he's crying because he's slowly breaking down, and the way he grips at his hair like he's trying to hold back...urgh. In different ways, indifferently, Till ignores Ivan and his affections, and fearfully, he avoids Mizi, instead watching her from afar, doing small things to feel close to her, even when he has the opportunity to get closer, and even when she acknowledges that he's so avoidant of her that it makes Mizi concerned if he even likes her or not, as was said in the Artbook when asked for her opinion of him:

"Mizi -> Till: I'd love to be friends with him. He's an artist who's so dedicated to his work. But he seems to be avoiding me... Does he hate me?"

Till doesn't confront relationships any more than he has to even though he cares so so deeply for them because confronting his emotions and confronting vulnerability, sadness, happiness, etc., and especially fear, is a commitment you have to understand how to accept and respond to, and Till doesn't understand the how when he can only go back to his starting point, hiding and or getting angry, because it's easier. At this point, it's instinct. Shyness is one thing, but doubt is something that can make you freeze in place, confuse you, make you feel unsafe, and even hinder your ability to control yourself in the wake of fear. Fear is what roots Till in place. Till, even for how emotional and sensitive he truly is, he fears the type of vulnerability being emotional requires, he knows of it, but he can never truly embrace it out of fear, that's why he rarely ever shows his heart. He already knows that wearing your weakness on your sleeve leaves you vulnerable to pain, he used to be childish and vulnerable once, and technically, he still is, but just imagine what years upon years of cruelty has instilled in him. So he acts cold and avoidant, and these misunderstood emotions lead to other misguided intentions. That's what brings me to the quote on the back of his pc

Translation:

"사랑 같은 애매한 말보다 증오란 말이 확실해요" -> "The word hatred is more certain than vaguer words like love"

Rather than confronting uncertainty and exploring the confusing, unpredictable, and gray area that is love, hate is honest, hate is intentional, hate is malleable, and you can control it. It's Till's response to feeling unsafe to resort to anger, in the same way, Ivan resorts to trying to fix it and put on a facade. Again, it ties back to the fact that Till doesn't and has never hated Ivan, but understanding Ivan is as confusing as understanding love, Till is as much of a puzzle himself. That's why they confuse each other and clash. So they come close but remain distanced because their connection is almost like unattractive magnets, Till is sensitive and loving, compared to Ivan's regrets; of not being nicer, of not understanding how to get closer to Till, then I think about what Till's recollection of his relationship with Ivan and Mizi in retrospective would be like when he does acknowledge it.

And now...mmizisua. To me, Sua looks more aware of her pain than Mizi is, like in the storyline, she is more aware of their fragility and the cruelness of their environment. It's surely a parallel to the way Sua had kept Mizi in the dark for so many years, even when this pain and this love are so destructive, she covers up her wound with her hand and hides it from Mizi, to protect her, her wound is a direct correlation to her (inevitable) death, a truth that would shatter Mizi, even after he death she wants Mizi to remember her the same as she was when she was alive, unaffected by their world. She tries to force a smile as if everything is still okay, especially because she doesn't want to affect the way Mizi looks at her so lovingly, how would Mizi ever recover if she knew the truth?

And Mizi would seemingly be none the wiser if not for the tears because, to me, she knows but looks to Sua for comfort, to forget even when she is hurt the same way, I love this side of MiziSua a lot, the side that highlights the cruelty of their relationship that surrounds their bubble, because as long as they could distract themselves with the presence of each other, the co-dependence of their dynamic, they could forget as if they couldn't feel the pain at all as long as they had each other, but Mizi is still so affected by her pain, all this hiding had amounted to nothing in the end because Mizi never changes in Sua's eyes, and Sua is still hiding her pain, but that day, Sua had broken that bubble of ignorance to the evil around them. Mizi's cracking, and she shows Sua when she pulls back her hair. It's an interesting contrast between MiziSua and IvanTill, when Mizi and Sua smile, they look happy to be in love, even if it's twisted and hurts each other, because they only rely on each other, and Ivan and Till look inconsolably pained.

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neolxzr · 2 months ago

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hey you get it its an alien stage alien au—wait a minute... this is just invader zim !!!

some more random info abt this au under the read more ^_^ open at your own risk its a lot of yapping

till makes it his mission to expose the aliens (mostly ivan. he has personal beef with him) to the rest of humanity, but he's the boy who cried wolf. no one believes him because he's been talking about aliens and bigfoot and mothman and whatever nonstop all his life.

till loves the supernatural but also fears it. it consumes most of his waking thoughts. he doesn't like how quickly the aliens grow close to mizi out of a desire to protect her from the (presumed) threat. he's kinda like if dib invader zim was some gay art kid instead of like a supergenius

this threatening feeling comes from till assuming that ivan and sua are on earth for some kind of conquest and or abduction reasons. are they actually? who knows...

mizi is a bit of a hopeless romantic and finding out that sua was an alien only served to make her fall for her more. she could think of nothing more romantic than this scenario, actually. even till screaming danger at her cannot deter her from her love

ivan fights with till and riles him up because he finds how expressive he is utterly fascinating. he says its to "learn more about humans" but mostly he just wants till's attention. he himself doesn't know why he wants this attention, though.

sua and ivan experience a range of emotions in a similar way to humans, yet their species is discouraged from acting emotionally and isnt taught about what any of their feelings mean. all they know, at the start, is that these humans draw some kind of strange feelings out of them that they've never felt before.

(it sticks with the overall theming of alnst being about trying to understand exactly what love means.)

ivan and sua's earpieces are multipurpose tools. they're connected directly to the brain and can't be taken off. they can be used to generate their disguises (its a hologram type of thing), works as a translator so they can communicate with other alien species, etc.

what looks kind of like a nose on the aliens' faces is not a nose. their antennas are used as their olfactory system (they are also quite sensitive)

till is no longer crushing on mizi at this point in his life. sometime during middle school mizi came out to him as a lesbian and so he told her he liked her and it was a whole thing and they both cried. it ended up serving to strengthen their friendship. its been about 4 years-ish since then and theyre still inseparable

till works some kind of shitty service job part time, at which he met hyuna. she's like his cool older college friend and sort of older sister. he plays with her band sometimes

this takes place in who the fuck knows where midwest united states, and the humans are korean-american. till is first generation and usually speaks korean with his mom at home

it takes a while for till to first get a glimpse of ivan and sua's undisguised forms, though when he finally does something about them seems oddly familiar to him.

mizi sees sua's undisguised form long before till does. she does not tell him this

luka is an alien too. wonder what he's up to...

ok thats all love you bye ^_^

#lazers art #alien stage #alnst #alnst till #alnst mizi #alnst ivan #alnst sua #mizisua #ivantill #alien stage invasion #thats it thats the title #HIII ALIENSTAGERS HOW ARE WE FEELING !!!#using my stupid silly au to cope with the absolute nightmare that was round 7 #ive been working on this for a long while now but i was suddenly invigorated to finish all my character sheets yesterday #this au is like my baby i mean its a combination of my two favorite alien-related medias #i have so many ideas for things for this i will eventually make some little comics or smth #maybe some more poster-ish designs too i love that stuff it just takes me 5ever #yknow i didnt make this with the intention of sua just Being gaz but about halfway thru #when i realized i had to give her a disguised form i was like wait. shes purple and hates everyone. thats gaz #anwyayssss ^_^ pls reblog and lmk what yall think this is my brainchild and i love it

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good-beans · 2 months ago

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Coping with round 7 by picturing normal au Milgram characters as Alien Stage fans. Not all of them are super into it, but have heard about it from the ones that are big fans. It's very fun to picture scenes of them discussing and getting emotional about a youtube based gradual release music video story project, 10/10 would recommend

Haruka*: Big fan of Sua, even though she makes him so sad. He's obsessed with Sweet Dream, and listens to that and My Clematis all the time.

Yuno: A tie between Ivan and Luka as her favorite character. Probably the one to get the most into the worldbuilding, knowing the minor characters and aliens' names.

Fuuta**: Is genuinely a big Till fan, but pretends he's an even bigger Till fan out of fear people will discover his huge crush on Hyuna. He went crazy over both versions of All-In.

Muu*: Likes Luka but is too afraid to sound like a fan of the antagonist, so she mostly focuses on her love of Mizi. Both because of the characters and the song itself, she really enjoys Ruler of My Heart.

Shidou: A fan of Mizi for obvious reasons, but really enjoys the melancholy of Black Sorrow and Cure

Mahiru*: Mizi all the way. She's going through it in a series about doomed romance, but she still loves it. Enjoys Mizi x Till, Hyuna x Luka, and any rarepair that passes her by.

Kazui: Yeah... Ivan... I don't think he'd be huge into the series, but if he did get deeper, I think he'd be really intrigued by Luka. Likes Black Sorrow, wasn't as into Cure as he expected.

Amane**: Has mixed feelings about the religion/love thing going on, but really likes Mizi and her songs. Really enjoys the cover songs and hearing characters sing things differently.

Mikoto: Genuinely likes the cast evenly, but if he had to pick he'd pick Till because he really enjoys the faster songs like Unknown and Blink Gone.

Kotoko: Recognizes that she's a lot like Hyuna, but Till's wildness makes him her favorite. She saw Till's death coming so she's more thrilled with Blink Gone than upset with the story

Es: Really loves Hyuna. They love the familial story with her brother and also think she's a cool character. Ivan is a close second specifically because they love his voice.

*has gotten choked up/teared up at an mv release

**has gotten choked up/teared up at an mv release and viciously denies it

#milgram #haruka sakurai #yuno kashiki #fuuta kajiyama #muu kusunoki #shidou kirisaki #mahiru shiina #kazui mukuhara #amane momose #mikoto kayano #kotoko yuzuriha #es #youre saved from my tag rant because i gotta sleep OOPS #but i wanted to jot this down before i forgor #its been bouncing around in my head since friday #please feel free to reblog with additions/corrections lol

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shakingparadigm · 7 months ago

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(this is copy-pasted from a ramble I had in sleepy's dms like months ago so please forgive the inconsistent grammar/punctuation etc!)

till's feelings are akin to an edelweiss, persevering despite the horrid conditions and all the forces that should have brought it down. it's around the same meaning as the clematis flower. both flowers are defined by their ability to bloom in harsh conditions, which mirror the behavior of loving and finding meaning within each other amidst an inhumane society. edelweiss are more associated with devotion though, and in My Clematis the clematis is seen as a source of hope and strength. mizisua and till to mizi are symbolized by flowers because they have (or, well, had) hope. their feelings bloomed as a result of an extremely human response to seeking some sense of companionship, connection, some belonging in such a strange and otherworldly civilization where it's incredibly easy to feel used and alone. which is why it interests me that even though he has this same desire, ivan's love is symbolized not by an earthy, organic piece of life, but by pieces of cosmos, falling stars. meteor showers are ivan's signature. (putting on my pretentious cap because once again I am going to apply meaning to something that probably isn't that deep)

Ivan is incapable (quite a strong word for it, but it's their words, not mine) of feeling proper human emotion, that much is stated in the patreon posts regarding his character. Why? I have no idea. I theorize it to be his harsh and ruthless upbringing that caused him to close himself off completely in order to protect himself. it started off very early too. or maybe ivan just had no concept of proper human emotion in general. I imagine that while he was growing up, there wasn't exactly any room for the humans he was surrounded with to exhibit any emotion lest they were targeted or punished somehow. Or maybe he was just born that way. anyway it's established that ivan is different from the other humans in this way, that's a similarity he shares with only one other character: Luka (Luka actually does have a stated reason as to why he seems so artificial however). It's why Ivan just goes limp in the grasp of the alien that held him over the edge, despite tears welling in his eyes he remains emotionally vacant and quiet. This moment is his first sight of the meteor shower. Ivan associates meteor showers with very significant experiences in his life (mainly near-death experiences according to the posts). Perhaps those meteor showers gave him some sort of relief, too, an escape from the hell he was living in. maybe he was just fascinated by them, the way they were so far beyond his reach yet burned so brilliantly. just like Till. he saw till's incredible resolve, his refusal to back down and remain passive. Ivan goes through the motions of his "life" doing whatever it is someone wants him to do. they want to sell him? okay. they want to throw him off a building? okay. sing this song, enter this competition, behave and pose for the picture. okay. But Till would rather be beat over and over again than to have his autonomy taken away. He doesn't even sing the songs he's assigned for the competition, he writes his own. His individuality is a blazing, passionate thing that's only bolstered by his natural talent. And to once again refer to the posts: Ivan is deeply fascinated by those who have qualities that he lacks. When he saw Till pick himself up off the ground, he saw stars in him. He saw the blazing fire, the brightness, the fascinating qualities that were far beyond his grasp, something he could only ever admire and hold onto in his hardest moments, but never to hold.

There's also the fact that meteor showers are fleeting. They're beautiful, ethereal spectacles, but they don't last. They're not meant to be held gently in your hands and cultivated like a flower. They appear in bursts of light and leave a lasting impression on whoever sees them, but eventually they disappear. Just like Till leaves Ivan behind, the palm of his hand disappearing from Ivan's grasp, his departure leaving a lasting impression. Ivan knows what they have together will not last, he knows Till's heart belongs elsewhere, yet he clings onto the imagery of the meteor shower because it's all he has. Even if Till doesn't love him back, he's the sole reason Ivan is able to feel to this extent at all. It's a blessing and a curse, so even if it hurts, Ivan continues to hold on. He even includes meteor showers during his performance in ROUND 3, sparkling gloves seemingly made of stardust reaching out to them as he desperately sings to his very own star. VIVINOS and QMENG said themselves that Ivan was persistent. He holds no anger towards Till's feelings for Mizi, he won't drive a wall between them because he respects Till's feelings and Mizi as a person, but he won't let go, either. Falling stars are fleeting, but the impact they leave behind? Not so fleeting at all. That feeling could last forever if it truly meant something to someone.

#god this is a bit dated #alnst #alien stage #alien stage ivan #alien stage till #ivantill

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k9punkout · 29 days ago

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If youre still doing the ask game Ivan and Sua!

I LOVE THESE TWO

Ivan:

1. Why I like them

i love ivan because he's unsolvable. there is literally no way for anyone to truly grasp how he thinks and feels. even the writers have admitted to not truly knowing what goes on in his head, and i find that so insane. to create a character so complex that it alludes the CREATOR HERSELF??? genius. i love it so much. there will never be enough thought put into his character because no one will ever reach a conclusion that will concisely and accurately describe Ivan. not even Ivan himself.

I also love the way he displays how people can develop when they really just have No One. throughout his entire life, ivan has always been alone. never an available support system, never a parental figure, never a place for him to vent his emotions. this lead to an absurd personality, and an insatiable desire for attention. when ivan loves someone, he craves their attention so desperately that he doesn't care whether it's gentle or violent. it's just so. GHHRHRHEHH

2 . Why I don't

probably for the same reason that i DO like him. because there's no true way to understand him, i always feel like im mischaracterizing him in some way whenever i talk about him or make content about him.

i also think it's very tragic how despite all the complex layers he has, ivan remains static in terms of development. he starts off with the same ideas and behaviors that he dies with, and he dies in a colorful burst of his own bottled up emotions, aggression and softness intermingling; mourning, rage, sadness, wanting, and joy all becoming one singular drive to do the things he did.

3. Favorite lyric

"you can break me apart"

4. Favorite frame/screenshot

the tears in his eyes, the drool on his lips, the sweat, the way he's hugging himself looking dazed. he's lost all of his composure. he's in shambles.

honorable mention to this one:

fake ass idgafer i SAW you yearning

5. Favorite outfit

probably his black sorrow one, simply because i really like the sparkly gloves

6. Favorite official art

his skin being a feverish and saturated hue to emphasize his mess of emotions, the way it looks like he's trying to hold himself together but the cracks just keep spreading... YEAH. I LOVE THESE PHOTOCARD ARTS BTW

7. Favorite canon fact

he views sua as a little sister ☹️

he's so desperate for a connection it hurts

8. Favorite straight-up-not-canon headcanon

ivan's favorite class is music interpretation and theory because he wants to better understand the music till makes.

9. Favorite song/cover

it used to be cure but black sorrow has been growing on me as of late. that PIANO.

10. Song I want them to cover

ivan and sua blink gone cover would go INSANE. if not that, ruler of my heart and ivan would sound so good.

Sua:

1. Why I like them

i like how distrustful she is. how she completely contradicts everything everyone believes about her--but solely when she's with mizi. to everyone else who isn't more observant towards her, she's just an ornament. a doll. closed off and pretty, meant to be looked at but never to love, never to be loved. and then mizi completely shatters that side of her, reaches in and grasps the emotional, fun-loving side of her, and suddenly she's bursting with life, as human and happy as it gets.

i also like how sensitive she is, despite trying her best to hide it. she cries easily. she gets mad easily. she gets insecure easily. she feels, she feels so much, and it's barely hidden beneath her disinterested persona.

2. Why I don't

theres nothing that i can think of that i don't like about sua. from her impact on the story to her personality to her design, it's all so cool. so for this part im just gonna name a fault in her morality that i love.

she hid from the truth by ensuring mizi never found out about it. she couldn't see a way out, so she found a way to ignore everything at the expense of mizi's happiness. she went into alnst knowing full well what it would do to her lover, even after ivan called her out for it, and died the happiest she could have been.

3. Favorite lyric

"you hug me tight as if nothing happened"

4. Favorite frame/screenshot

the way Nigeh had complete control of her before she met mizi. SUA MY GIRLLLLL

5. Favorite outfit

probably her doll-like dress she wore as a kid. no regard for her comfort or convenience, only the aesthetics matter. (reminds me of till's metal shoes in round 6)

6. Favorite official art

the dullness in her eyes i actually cant

honorable mention to this one:

angel baby ☹️☹️☹️

7. Favorite canon fact

she used a flower that mizi gave her as a bookmark and she was so fond of it and and and

8. Favorite straight-up-not-canon headcanon

she doesn't ACTUALLY hate till and ivan, she simply doesn't want to get closer to them because she knows they'd remind her of how bad the real world is. she'll see it in ivans false smile and cynical observations, in the purple bruises and green patches on tills body. she wants nothing to do with it.

9. Favorite song/cover

MIZISUA CURE LITERALLY GIVES ME CHILLS. KILLS ME SO BAD EVERY TIME I LISTEN TO IT. the love in sua's voice is just so. oh my god.

10. Song I want them to cover

the aforementioned ivan and sua blink gone cover will be real guys TRUST 🗣️🗣️

#these two take over my brain #alnst ivan #alnst sua #alien stage sua #ivan alien stage #alien stage #alnst

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tumbleweedsthesecond · 29 days ago

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Tophvan post yayy... I wanna explain why I ship it or whatever. Why its silly to me or like how I view their dynamic or whatever. This is gonna cringe so probably ignore this if you don't like tophvan I'm not trying to say its like the best ship in the world or they have a great dynamic or whatever I just wanna explain how I view them. This will probably sound delusional but yk whatever. Cringe and free I guess. Here's some old art

Basically me going on their interactions sorta kinda plus my own headcanons.

Okay so hc wise I've always kind of imagined they wouldn't get along in some way. For obvious reasons, Topher tries too hard and Ivan doesn't try at all. So obviously Topher would at least try to seem like he didn't know him s1 and I don't think he does really know him s1 I feel like they would've followed each other on Flipflop(gah I hate saying that) and Topher just didn't care to block him because he only has two followers and doesn't want to lose one. Anyway I think with s3 I imagine the bleacher creatures met during summer school mayhaps because they all failed gym or math or something? That's my hc on it. I think they do seem close? At least good friends I think that jackée Ivan and Topher are the three main(vlad and lizzie I still loveee but its harder to get a read on them they don't talk much) anyway I don't think that Ivan and Topher would immediately get along obviously Topher let loose more because he's happier with his friends but still I don't think its perfect obv. so going to actually get into the analysis now I yap so much

Cringe part

I think that based off lines of dialogue like "its a fuck no from me" "a simple no would've been fine Ivan" that Topher kinda keeps him grounded at least a little bit???? Ivan doesnt seem to retaliate I think he does sort of view Topher as the leader in a way. Because Topher talks the most and tbh he does seem a little bit bossy. There's also that one time that I immediately think of when I think tophvan the part where he looks over at Topher as if to see if its approved or not before he agrees with jackée.

Like hes like 'is this funny? ' though it could be because he doesn't listen to jackée because female and he's a dumb teenage boy(throws tomatoes at him) I still think that its funny cause he doesn't even look at all the guys in the group to approve it first he just looks at Topher. you can tell by the animation

Anyway before that I think these two do talk more off screen Ivan looks at him when the others don't (even in other scenes though I don't really think that's a big deal imo) okay full headcanon time I think Ivan knows about tophers supposed crush on joan. I don't think Ivan likes Joan but I think he was like "give it a shot because Topher or whatever 🙄😒' but I also feel like he had a bet that she wouldn't be any help. Don't get me wrong I do think ivans dumb obviously but I also do think he just doesn't like Joan. He doesn't full on hate her or anything just don't think he completely trusted her. He does trust her in the vip room thing he thought that was coll but he is also the first to say she ditched us straight up. Ivans very blunt

We are standing in a closet!

Past that I think they do get closer or whatever afterwards. Kind of. We see them in the shower but I kind of ignore that episode and scene altogether so. That's not rlly a big thing I think abt so anyway

Dumb thing incoming I think its also like the way they look at each other or whatever. Like. whatever dude. I think they'd be kind of sweet or whatever. I don't know. Idiots who caresbro.

Overall I think Topher is a complete idiot too like obviously that one scene where he gets bitten by the snake and jackée says to suck the poison out and Ivan sucks the snake because he's a stupid stupid idiot. Dumb. Tophers stupid too very stupid but that's why I think they're fun together.

Forgot abt that scene where they highfive Topher laughs at ivans dumb jokes. They highfive. (I think Topher laughs way too hard at it like we get it bro. You think its funny. I would say it kinda sounds like forced like haha you're so funnyyy but that's probably a bit of a stretch 😔😔😔💔💔)Edit: I think he genuinely finds that stuff funny cause he's so stupid like bone high is not that funny he just has dumb humor. Anyway another hc I have Topher does like his jokes alot and at first I van laughs along with him but then Topher laughs too much so Ivan just like stares at him

Akso the thing where he sees Topher as the leader of the group I don't think that's too serious or anything I think its just like okay ill listen to you sometimes they're still a dumb high school friend group.

ALSO THIS ISNT ME TRYING TO BE LIKE ITS BETTER THSN OTHER SHIPS OR THAT "OH THRY HAVE SO MUCH DYNAMIC" they're background characters basically I just want to point out some canon stuff! Its fine if you don't ship them who cares anyway if anyone has any tophvan hcs please comment them I love seeing tophvan stuff!!!

Also I love all the bleacher creatures I'm ocifying them too.....sorry to single out the ship I just wanted to explain stuff

Also is this reaching? Probably but they're two characters with low screen time so. Shrugs

#clone high #tophvan #Topher bus #clone high ivan the terrible #clone high Ivan #Clone high Topher #again feel free to share tophvan hcs I love tophvan #Stupid idiot bromance to me #I think they'd be kinda sweet to eachother. Sometimes. As a treat🙄#THEYRE STILL DUMB DUMB IDIOTS THOUGH

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alien-til-i-stage · 2 months ago

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(ignore my long absence and my iavin reblogs im a changed person)

When watching the latest round, it was unfortunately clear that there was a difference in composure and impressions left upon the crowd between Luka and Till. While in the beginning, Till is able to keep calm (or as calm as he can be), we can see him slowly and eventually panicking or freaking out, unable to keep his composure and unable to keep up with Luka’s pace.

While I don’t believe or know if Till could’ve or would’ve won if he had kept his composure, I can definitely say that the moment he lost it, he guaranteed his loss. We can also see this with Mizi. In round 5, while the round was more than likely doomed to result in Luka’s favor, no matter what, Mizi had also guaranteed her own loss when she panicked on stage. In fact, she never had a chance due to the fact that Mizi, from the beginning, couldn’t keep up with Luka and was unable to keep her composure in front of the crowd due to her still mourning Sua.

For those two to be Luka’s competition, I think it was almost certain that Luka was going to win Alien Stage for a second time, which is why it’s so strange to me that he was able to win that easily. While we could say that it was rigged for Luka’s favor, we can’t really confirm that, nor would it make much sense. Luka is still a human like the rest of them, if someone can win against him, that makes the other more valuable than Luka, and there’s no reason to keep the second best, the main point of Alien Stage is for the best to survive.

When you think about how Mizi and Till were able to even go up against Luka in the beginning, you can notice that they were able to go against Luka through an act of sacrifice. Sua died for Mizi willingly, and Ivan did for Till. If you look at the rounds carefully, we can definitely say that Ivan would’ve won had he not done anything to Till, and I believe that Sua could’ve also easily won against Mizi similarly. (This is due to the fact that it’s mentioned in the pateron that Sua was able to gain a dedicated fan base despite being the first to go, I think had she not restrained herself and performed for the aliens and not for Mizi, or had taken advantage of Mizi’s naivety and her ignorance, she could’ve won.)

Basically, I believe that Sua and Ivan would’ve won against their competition easily had they viewed them as competition rather than close friends and loved ones. I mentioned before in a post that Luka, Sua, and Ivan are very similar, but going through different circumstances brought them to different results, which I think can also be said for this.

Luka goes through his rounds, viewing the others as competition or prey. He’s aware he can easily win and he uses that to his advantage. He knows he has a fanbase, he knows these contestants are new and losing those they care about easily, so he plays with that. His victory is almost always guaranteed in his favor because he doesn’t think of the others as fellow humans, but rather as something he can easily use to his advantage. In round 3, we can see something similar in the way that Ivan doesn’t panic, the only time he loses his composure is when he thinks about Till. When the scores are announced, he doesn’t need to look back to see if he won or not, he doesn’t need to look over to his dead opponent, because he knew he was going to win. He didn’t view the opponent as a loved one or someone he would play with in Anakt, he saw them as competition and won.

The way Ivan acts on stage in round three is very similar to the way that Luka acts in round five, with the exception that Ivan doesn’t play with the other opponent but focuses purely on the aliens. We know that Ivan can perform, we know that he can entertain the aliens and focus purely on their entertainment because we see this. While Sua died first and we didn’t see her actually competing, we know that there isn’t much else she cares about other than Mizi. She already doesn’t care much for the other contestants, and we also know that she doesn’t fear death, as she was already taught and prepared to die by her elder sister. Death was no longer a concern for her, by the time she was put into Anakt Garden, she knew how to sit still and look pretty for the aliens. I mentioned earlier that she gained a dedicated fan base despite her short time on stage, which only goes to show that Sua had potential, she could’ve won easily and got more attention and popularity.

The point is, Sua and Ivan know how to entertain the guardians. They know what is needed from them and they can easily provide it. Mizi and Till are both very reactive and very emotional, which leads to freak outs and breakdowns on stage, this is not something that the aliens want.

I believe that if Sua and Ivan hadn’t died for Mizi and Till, that if the rounds were instead, Luka vs Sua and Luka vs Ivan, he would’ve struggled more. I’m not sure if they would’ve won, but they would’ve been able to make it close at least. If Sua had nothing, not even feelings for Mizi, Luka wouldn’t have been able to manipulate her or make her panic, the only thing he would’ve been able to do is outperform her.

Ivan masks constantly, and to people who aren’t him, it’s hard to tell what he thinks or focuses on. If he had let Till die or if he never cared about Till in the beginning, I’m not sure Luka would be able to use anything against Ivan either. It would be a close tie, due to the fact that we know that Ivan can make a show for the aliens. The rounds against Sua and Ivan would’ve been boiled down to performance and how dedicated their fans are, and as we know, Sua has dedicated fans who would mostly be even more dedicated and larged had she had more time to shine, and Ivan has consistent and loyal fans, seen from the Top Three stats. They would’ve been worthy opponents.

It’s funny that Luka’s worthy opponents died right before his round. That he wanted a struggle against someone worthy and someone who could win (from his interview in the pateron), yet they died, not because they weren’t able to perform correctly, but because they loved their opponent so much that they let themselves lose and die.

oh and tags!!! @rockwgooglyeyes bc you asked so nicely

#sorry for the long yap sesssion i just have a big brain/j #alien stage #alnst #luka alien stage #alnst luka #hyuna alnst #luka alnst #sua alnst #mizi alnst #alnst hyuna #alnst mizi #alnst ivan #alnst till #alnst round 7 #basically i group sua luka and ivan together as the idols or the yearners #and mizi till and hyuna are grouped up as the uh the uh the fucking the human spirits ones #not syaing ivan and sua arent humanized or anything just that till and mizi are closer to the flaws that humanity suffers from #rsther than the idolized humans that aleins have made which ivan and sua are closer to that #i like alnst btw

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sadokasochism · 8 months ago

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I am destroyed over the whole god/worshipper dynamic and have no idea how to adequately put it into words.

I mentioned in another post that Mizi could not fathom Sua ACTUALLY dying, or comprehend what death really meant, and attributed this to her relatively comfortable and sheltered life as the pet of Shine. She was not taught to conceptualise death as a loss, and she never faced any opposition to that world view. From what we know, she might have never really known true, lasting pain or loss before the end of Round 1.

However, her reaction could also be due to her placing Sua on a pedestal as her personal god and universe. She viewed Sua as her absolute everything, and why would any faithful worshipper believe their god could be killed? Only, while Sua was everything to HER, that perception did not carry over to their captors. Mizi's love and devotion was not enough to save Sua. Forces stronger than them both took her away like she was nothing.

How must Mizi have felt, having her perception of Sua as the centre of the universe shattered that way? Coming to the violent realisation that Sua was just another human, and that humans are indeed that vulnerable and disposable? That Sua could now only exist in memories and in the visions that haunt her? That Sua is not a god, but a ghost?

Now we look at Till's perception of Mizi. Again, in an earlier post I mentioned the tragedy of Till falling for someone who did not have a reason to leave. He had a lot of blind faith in Mizi, and it could be said that he idealised her as a paragon.

It's not hard to see how he reached this point. The poor kid had not been shown a lot of kindness in his life, and so meeting someone who was genuinely good and so full of joy must have had a huge impact on him.

However, his faith is still a blind one, but in a different way to Mizi's blind faith in Sua. He is happy to endure any amount of horrible treatment and does not expect anyone to help him. He doesn't resent Mizi for being so close to their captors, for her dreams stopping at Alien Stage. He doesn't resent her after he gives up on his chance at freedom and is subjected to who knows how many more years of pain and torment at the hands of their captors (Not that Mizi is at fault, Till made his own decision that Mizi likely never even knew about).

He sees Mizi's innocence and ignorance to the cruelty of their reality as something wonderful instead of a character flaw that prevents her from saving herself or her loved ones.

Sua has the same issue, seeking comfort and bliss within Mizi's brightness instead of acknowledging the cruel reality of their world. Maybe she felt sharing her perspective with Mizi would dim Mizi's bright spirit, and so she was more than content to wait out the clock with her god.

Maybe Sua felt that meeting Mizi, loving her and being loved by her in return, was nothing short of a miracle after the life she had lived before Anakt Garden. Maybe she felt in light of that, aspiring for something like freedom or a long, long life of happiness with the person she loved the most was asking far too much. The time she got with Mizi was already a miracle, why expect or demand anything more?

If Sua was afraid of Mizi losing her brightness, no wonder she was so affected by Ivan's lecture about becoming a source of trauma for Mizi after her death.

Ivan's view of Till as his god is a bit different. He is similar in that he doesnt seem to demand his devotion be reciprocated, he just wants his god to acknowledge him as a person, as someone that is at least PART of Till's universe, if he can't be all of it.

He is also very willing to become a martyr for his god while expecting nothing in return but Till continuing to live. He acknowledges Till as vulnerable and falable in a way that Till doesn't with Mizi, and Mizi didn't with Sua. He knows damn well that while Till is the centre of HIS universe, their captors certainly do not hold Till in that same regard. He knows that love and devotion in a vacuum does not save anyone.

Which is why he was always the one to free Till, to try and escape with him, and why he pulled the stunt he did in Round 6. Ivan knew that actually making an impact in this world required personal risk and sacrifice, because their captors don't give a fuck if you're in love or if that other pet-human they're about to kill means everything to you.

Till knew this too, but his idealised version of Mizi is too perfect to be broken and beaten down by this world the same way the rest of them have been. So he's still shattered by Round 5, seeing how far Mizi has fallen and then not knowing if she's alive or dead, but knowing for sure she is far out of reach. I wonder, did he regret not running away with Ivan at that point? Did he wonder what all those years of suffering were for, if he was just going to end up losing Mizi anyway? If this world was able to break her too, no matter what he did?

Mizi is gone and changed forever, and nothing he did could stop it. His love and devotion and sacrifice wasn't enough. He failed his god.

In Round 6, Ivan is faced with the same thing. His god has lost his fighting spirit, is changed forever, and Ivan's love and devotion wasn't enough to save him. The last thing he can give is his life, and hope that will be enough. Just like Sua. But he was never Till's god, was never even part of his universe, he probably won't even leave a ghost behind. So, the choice is obvious, really.

They're all so desperate for hope and connection in this lonely, painful existence that they make a person their entire universe, and then are repeatedly crushed when they are shown again and again that their soul-consuming love for one another is seemingly meaningless in a world that views them as infinitely disposable.

#alien stage #alien stage mizi #alien stage sua #alien stage ivan #alien stage till #alnst #alnst mizi #alnst sua #alnst ivan #alnst till #mizisua #mizitill #ivantill #basically i will never know peace again

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ivanttakethis · 6 months ago

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WHAT R UR FAV ALNST THEORIES/ ANALYSES!?!?!!

GREAT QUESTION ANON!!!

These my favorite theories in no particular order, with some of my own personal theories mixed in.

Most of these are about Ivan, but he’s my favorite character so yeah lol.

Long post under the cut. Let’s go!!

1. IVAN IS ALIVE (yes, the capitalization is necessary)

I believe this one for a few reasons:

- We haven’t seen any official art about Ivan’s death (which is inch resting imo)

- At one point, there was a post/comment/rumor that Vivinos/QMENG (not sure which) said no one else was going to die after Sua (of course now I can’t find where I initially saw this, so take it with a grain of salt). This could’ve been said to mislead us or maybe they changed their minds later on, but I’m still holding onto this — assuming the statement was made/is true.

- Ivan didn’t get shot in the head. If they wanted to kill him to stop him from “hurting” Till, why waste bullets on shooting him several times in non-lethal places when they could’ve just sniped him one time in the head or neck and been done with it?

- Ivan’s owner Unsha is an alien underworld mobster who has a rivalry with Till’s owner Urak. I don’t think Unsha would take Till (and by extension Urak) “winning” Round 6 in the way he did lightly enough to let Ivan rest without a rematch. But maybe he’s not as petty as I would be idk.

- I’m delusional 🙂

2. Luka isn’t branded.

- This is one of my theories. I think Luka doesn’t have his name branded anywhere on him because he was grown in a lab.

- If the aliens are capable of growing humans, they probably also have the ability to “edit” or design them however they wish. They could’ve made Luka into the perfect Alien Stage contestant: beautiful, musically talented, charming, eternally youthful, but also cunning and cutthroat.

- I think they made him obedient on a fundamental level, more obedient than Ivan or Sua. It’s part of his DNA.

- He’s incapable of rebelling, so there’s no need to brand him. There’s no need for a reminder of who’s in charge because Luka wouldn’t step out of line in the first place.

3. Sua was turned into an android.

- Based on this official art that continues to haunt me.

- Also this post about Vivinos saying Sua will appear again “no matter what form she takes” makes me go hmm 🤔

- If Mizi and Hyuna get captured, I could see android Sua being brought in to break down Mizi as some sort of psychological torture method. (Wow, that got dark. Anyways…)

4. Ivan will appear in the 10th video in the series.

- I talked about my reasoning behind this theory here, but to summarize: the three numbers in this pic with Ivan could represent Round 3 and Round 6, which he appeared in both, and the 10 could represent him appearing in the 10th video in the series. This also ties into theory #1 on this list (IVAN IS ALIVE)

- This is one of my favorite theories because it gives me big “cork board and red string” conspiracy vibes lol

5. Ivan has a connection to the wagyeins.

- Based on the official art we have of Ivan being close with a wagyein as a child. I did a mini-analysis about their relationship in this post.

- Ivan also has some of similarities to the wagyein that we don’t see in any other humans (red pupils, sharp tooth, etc.)

6. Ivan was experimented on.

- Another one of my personal theories is that Ivan was experimented on, though not to the extent that Till was.

- This might explain why he was able to tank like three bullets without flinching much in Round 6.

- And also why his blood might be a different color, as mentioned in this post.

Finally, and perhaps most devastatingly:

7. Till did look at Ivan, he just didn’t notice.

- I think Ivan is an unreliable narrator who is deeply self-deprecating and always sees the worst in himself. And because both Round 3 and Round 6 focused heavily on Ivan’s perspective, we as the audience end up seeing the world how he saw it, rather than how it actually was.

- Ivan thinks that Till never noticed him, but I think he did. Just— not when Ivan was looking. There’s some art/screenshots to back this up too (his eyes being closed in some of these 😭).

Those are all my favorite theories as of now, but I’m sure there’ll be more in the future.

Thank you for the ask anon!

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