#also the part in sa2 where sonic is like There always seem to be a lot of police around when you dont need them

[sonknuxadow]

every time i see someone say that sonic would be homophobic or transphobic or racist or ableist or anything along those lines or use him as a mascot for those sorts of beliefs im like Dont make me tap the sign ↓

[infizero]

great now im thinking about sa2 again. it always circles back to this

[descendant-of-truth]

On principle I don't really like the idea of Sonic being sent after Shadow at the request of G.U.N for two reasons:

It robs us of the god-tier cold open of the original game where Sonic busts out of a helicopter to escape arrest

I always loved the setup where Sonic and Shadow meeting was pretty incidental - neither of them had any idea who the other was, but Sonic thought Shadow was impersonating him on purpose while Shadow just thought he seemed fun to mess with

But depending on what the surrounding context is, I can see how the movie could make this plot point interesting in a completely different way that still complements these versions of the characters, even if I don't prefer it to the original.

So, some ideas:

G.U.N has been the villain of the last two movies, so in order for Sonic to be working with them, they must have a pretty good deal for him. My guess is that they promised to leave him and his family alone - no more schemes, no more kidnapping, nothing of the sort - on the one condition that "Team Sonic" helps them deal with Shadow.

This would already function as a narrative parallel to Sonic enlisting Robotnik's help later for the same thing. The name of the game becomes "we don't like each other, we're enemies, but we need to work together to deal with this guy because he's too powerful," which becomes a triple threat if the whole cast including Shadow gets to team up at the very end to save the world

I think it would also be very fun if Sonic is trying so hard to talk things out with Shadow in large part because he heard that there was another hedgehog on the loose, and wants so badly to be friends with someone like him that it takes at least one full-blown beating before he gives up on that idea

(The other reason he keeps trying is "it worked on Knuckles" of course)

Now, this puts Sonic in a fascinating position, particularly when using the game as a frame of reference. SA2 was very straightforward with how it presented its conflict at first: you have a Hero Story and a Dark Story, and as such you're primed to think of everyone on both sides as either being good or bad.

And most people, I think, were inclined to play the Hero Story first; it's the one with Sonic in it, and the select screen hovers over it by default, too. It tells a very simple story of Sonic and friends stopping Eggman's (admittedly very threatening) evil plan, developing some new rivalries along the way.

It's already a little bit of a twist for Sonic and Knuckles to have formed a respectful relationship with Shadow and Rouge by the end, since you see them as villains initially, but they still remain antagonists. Rouge returns the Master Emerald pieces, but she's still working with Robotnik. Shadow thinks Sonic is pretty impressive, but he still tries to kill him to stop him from saving the world.

But then you get to the Dark Story, and then the Final Story, and you think, oh. It's really not that simple.

For starters, you get to see more of Rouge's bond with Shadow. There's some conflict inherent to their relationship because Rouge is a spy and is only here to get information on Shadow, but after he saves her life, there's a definite shift to their dynamic. There's something genuine there, even if it doesn't get a lot of screentime dedicated to it.

But most important to the story is what we learn about who Shadow is, in part through his interactions with Rouge.

Shadow is cunning and ruthless - heck, his goal is to literally blow up the world. But whether out of compassion or survivor's guilt or both, he can't let Rouge die, so he saves her and then lies about his motivations for it to seem colder than he is.

And even though the things he's doing are definitely bad, his motivations are famously sympathetic; he wants revenge for his best friend, a young girl who was killed by the G.U.N military during a raid.

(It was implied that there was some sort of brainwashing done on him by Gerald after Maria died as well but that part of the story is incredibly vague)

By the end of the game, Shadow comes into his own as a hero and helps save the world instead of destroying it. And suddenly it makes sense why the stories weren't called Hero and Villain, because neither Shadow nor Rouge are especially villainous characters; Rouge is selfish, and Shadow is driven by grief and hatred, but they're ultimately kind at the end of the day. Both of them find people to care about - each other, as well as Knuckles and Sonic respectively.

But y'know, there wasn't a lot of ambiguity about who the heroes were in the Hero Story itself. Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles are pretty clearly The Good Guys, and nothing they do is really questioned because they're always fighting The Bad Guys.

So what I'm seeing here is an opportunity for Team Sonic to not be totally in the right for once. Yes, it's good to stop Shadow from going on a rampage and destroying the world, but look at who they're keeping for company here. G.U.N? Robotnik and Agent Stone? As if either of those groups are trustworthy enough to not stab them in the backs as soon as it's convenient. As if they're not going to find some way to exploit Sonic for their benefit.

And frankly, Shadow is totally in the right to hate G.U.N, and Team Sonic for working with them. Given that his backstory seems to be largely unchanged, it's kind of impossible not to be on board with him fighting the protagonists at least a little bit.

Besides, I don't think it's a coincidence that Shadow is doing the wrong thing for the right reason, while Sonic is doing the right thing with the wrong people (and maybe also for the wrong reason). That has the potential to be very clever if executed well.

I can only imagine the dawning horror on Sonic's face as he realizes just how much he's not on the right side of this conflict; when he learns about what happened to Maria and everyone else on the Ark. Especially if Tom's family was involved in it, like the current popular theory going around.

Also, last-second realization: what if there's something more to that line from Tom, "it wasn't always easy, but you didn't change who you are in here"? Most likely it's going to be used as a way to show how Shadow is different from Sonic, because he did change who he was in response to trauma and it'll be really poetic when he "finds himself" again

But also, consider: maybe Sonic does end up changing throughout the movie. Maybe he does something that goes against his core principles in order to get an advantage in some way, and they kind of play around with the idea that Sonic is similar to Shadow in ways that aren't always flattering to either of them. I want those hedgehogs to make each other worse before they get better

In any case, there's a lot of potential here, and I'm very curious to see what they ended up going with

[egg-emperor]

do you think Eggman actually wants to kill/torture sonic? The sonic channel says in eggmans bio that he doesn’t hate sonic deep down in his heart, does Eggman have morals??

That's what the Sonic Channel bio says with Google translate, which is the most unreliable form of translation and in this case very inaccurate for Eggman's character. I rely more on DeepL but it's having trouble with this, it just says "deep down he hates him" lol

But in more reliable translation it doesn't seem to state that he doesn't actually hate him, which I think is an important distinction to make. Here's an example of a human translation of that part, which is always better than a machine one:

"Tender" doesn't feel like a fitting word at all though. This is the absolute closest you've ever got to him being somewhat... affectionate?... towards Sonic in a genuine way in the games, I suppose:

I mean, he's saying he finds him admirable. And it's funny because this is as he's attempting to blow him up to kill him and really thinks he's succeeded this time. I guess you can say that's kind of affectionate in his own twisted way by declaring it in his send-off, that works lol

Now in his Origins bio, they're very clearly referring to this same aspect in that bio but with a huge rephrasing that feels muuuch more fitting than "tender":

You can tell because it's beat for beat with the whole "he wants to defeat Sonic, but deep down-" phrasing

In this case, kinship clearly refers to the feeling of "a sharing of characteristics/other similarities." (Not the other way in being related in a familial sense, no way in hell lol) This is a massive improvement, absolutely PERFECT phrasing Imo.

This makes a lot more sense because it has game evidence. I look at what's in the games to support any outside word. If there isn't any, I don't accept it, canon is what's in the source media/text, any word outside has to be at least heavily supported by/align with it.

This scene specifically has him explain his feelings on Sonic in his own words perfectly. You're not gonna get it from a better place than the horse's mouth. It also shows where I feel the "kinship" is:

It reaffirms that he absolutely does hate him and makes sure to specifically heavily emphasize it. You can hear it in his voice and it's not just in his words, he shows it in his actions, his dislike and threats aren't empty as he tries to outright hurt and kill Sonic all the time.

But it also shines more light on the way that he can also have respect for him, similarly to the way that he called him his admirable adversary in SA2. He can acknowledge that he has talent and admirable tenacity without liking him.

These are closest to "tender" they've gotten with him towards Sonic in canon if we're going to try assign anything to that at all. But again, I feel the rephrasing of it being him feeling a kinship is a lot more accurate with all things considered.

It fits perfectly because Eggman is exactly the same. He also has raw talent with his genius IQ and his creations and plans and tenacity to keep trying and never give up on his goals.

They've always been like two sides of the same coin, drastic opposites of traits in some aspects but also very similar in others, such as tenacity and skill level. This is what makes them perfect narrative foils to each other.

It shows they're a match in battle. Proves he's smart too in recognizing it, if he wasn't he wouldn't stand a chance against Sonic but instead he puts up the greatest fight of all villains and the one that still lives to fight again and again.

I talked a bit more about how even the way that they're opposites in themes yet can have an interesting overlap into almost similarities in the way they go about it at the same time in this post, which I feel is also worth mentioning.

Sage recognizes and praises Eggman's tenacity in the next cutscene they're together after he specifically mentions and praises Sonic for his, so she notices similarity between them too:

So to sum up my stance- the idea of it being "tenderness" on Eggman's part feels inaccurate too, unless you're saying it's like, the closest he can get in his own twisted way then sure lol. But it certainly isn't in the way that fits the genuine definition with the ways he's actually shown to feel and think about him.

I feel the words kinship and respect are the most accurate descriptors by definition though. He does indeed feel those towards him but he absolutely hates his guts at the same time. And that's what makes that Frontiers scene so good for summing it up so perfectly. I think it really is that simple at its core.

And he absolutely does hate him and makes it very clear constantly in the games, as recently as Frontiers, so it hasn't changed at all over time either. He's been very violent and shown eagerness and attempt various kinds of graphic injury and death to Sonic and often attempts to act on those threats.

He has taken great delight in Sonic seemingly meeting his demise twice, so it doesn't get any more blatant than that:

He has also been very unenthused and expressed disappointment when he survives his attempts to kill him multiple times:

Lol

And no, Eggman doesn't have any known good morals that ever limit him from doing anything bad and harmful in the games. His only limit is what results in the world he wants to rule being completely destroyed so he can no longer rule it, also the only reason he teams up to save the world, besides to save himself too of course.

Case in point- Eggman saying that he doesn't want to destroy the planet completely:

Yet also showing little care for the state of it when the damage is done, as long as there's still enough for him to conquer:

Sums it up because this is within the same game too, though there are many examples of this throughout the series. Where he'll cause mass amounts of destruction to get what he wants but if another bad guy threatens to completely destroy it to the point it ceases to exist so he can't rule it and of course puts him in danger, he'll team up to stop it.

He also tries to kill Sonic and co all the time, even characters as young as 8 and 6 and has no hesitation or remorse. Sage also hasn't changed this at all, as Dream Team is canon and takes place after Frontiers.

So if he doesn't have good moral standards that stop him from targeting actual children then yeah, makes sense for him to not have them anywhere else either. You can't really stoop any lower.

Which is why I think the concept of him torturing Sonic in Forces makes a lot of sense too. There's never been anything to say he wouldn't. Certainly not any moral limits. I can imagine he'd jump at the chance to torture Sonic in at least some way when he gets his hands on him for that long.

Eggman's character when broken down to its essentials are very simple. Hating Sonic is one of them. But his feelings and actions in how he actually goes about them are a lot more complex and complicated. In the way he's still able to recognize his ability and give him credit where it's due and have respect for him from a formidable adversary standpoint.

The man's got a point

Simple when it comes to his core traits, personality, and motives. Can be much more complex and complicated in his feelings and actions. That's what gives him such compelling depth to me. He's super interesting to analyze and it's so much more fun and eye opening when viewing his character with this nuance. He's not to be oversimplified or overcomplicated.

I like Eggman's dynamic with Sonic because it's not simplistic in the "he hates him so much he can't recognize and respect any of his abilities/skills" nor "he can recognize and respect any of his abilities/skills, so that means he doesn't really hate him". It's more complex and nuanced than that and I like it.

It shows he's smart when he can recognize and respect Sonic's skills so he can stand a chance against him. It also benefits him by proving his intelligence and strength in being able to continue to challenge him after all this time, so it's a way for him to take pride in it too.

If he denied them, it would also make himself look weak for being able to defeat him but he's far from it. If Sonic wasn't as strong and skilled as he is, Eggman would easily be able to take over the world. He proved it in Forces, if it wasn't for Sonic it would've been a permanent victory.

Having a powerful enemy proves he's a powerful threat. Having what it takes to take on a guy who's been able to kill beings of god-like power says a lot about his own too, so acknowledging it benefits himself in multiple ways and that's always an important factor when it comes to him lol

The Sonic Channel commentary at the end of this Sonic and Eggman cover story describes Eggman's feelings on Sonic and their roles in each other's lives perfectly (excerpt from the "what really entertains him" section):

I also like how it notes that Eggman can enjoy the thrill of the battles as he is seen having as great of a time with it as often as he can be fueled by rage during them. Just like Sonic can too, another of their similarities there 💜

[semi-sketchy]

Alright, since I'm at that episode, I'm gonna elaborate on my actual problem with Dark Sonic:

To be honest, I don't think there's anything really wrong with Sonic during the episode. He's angry his friends have been hurt by a villain, so he harnesses the power of the fake Emeralds (which he has a physical negative reaction to) and smashes said villain's testing robots to pieces.

I never really considered this a problem. Sonic can get angry, be antagonized, the SA2 Shadow fight in Green Forest springs to mind.

Plus, Secret Rings has Darkspine Sonic, which is about as close to Dark Sonic as it gets. Sharha just died, trading her life for his, he absorbs the Rage, Sadness and Hatred Rings and transforms.

Even after he leaves the transformation, he still seems pretty pissed at Erazor Djinn, with killing Sharha at the top of the list.

So, yeah. It's not 1:1 and I'm not claiming these are the same, X is obviously more exaggerated, but I don't really have a problem with the concept. We can talk about how Eggman comes in, tells Sonic he needs to be better and not let his emotions overwhelm him, but frankly I think that's more of an X!Eggman issue than the transformation itself.

No, my real problem is, and always has been, how the fandom interpreted it. That's it. I've read so many fics, seen so many posts about Sonic just "turning dark" when angry, as if any transformations have ever been purely emotion without an external power-source. (Super requires the Chaos Emeralds, Hyper the Super Emeralds, Darkspine was 3 of the World Rings, Werehog was Dark Gaia energy, Excalibur Sonic was the sacred swords, Wisp transformations needed the Wisps, Super Sonic 2 was Chaos Emeralds + Cyber energy....you get it.)

The way I've always saw it, is yes, Sonic is upset, but he also is being affected by the fake Emeralds.

This is the Discotek translation, I don't know enough Japanese to say how accurate it is, all I know know is "warui" means bad/sick depending on the sentence. An older translation (and the English dub) points to him feeling physically sick around them.

Far as I can tell, he's already reacting bad to these Emeralds on top of being antagonized, so he uses power that's at his disposal does what the villain wants: fuck up his shit.

If the fake Emeralds didn't exist, this transformation wouldn't have happened. Additionally, since X ended and the only fake Emerald in the games was blown up in SA2, it can't happen again. (Unless you write scenario where someone makes fake Emeralds, but that requires writing for the form instead of just slapping it in à la characters in IDW.)

Perhaps I'm being too hard on a lot of kids that never really interacted with the source material and just wanted to write Sonic fanfics. I've read so many that made it quite obvious that the author didn't know anything about Sonic besides he's fast and I'm not really out here trying to say Sonic shouldn't inspire people to create. Never said I hated reading those fics, I got a good deal of entertainment out of them. It's simply this misconception has stretched so far, it's like the original context has been entirely erased.

And that's the part of Dark Sonic that bothers me.

I've seen plenty of arguments for why the transformation was a poor choice and I don't entirely disagree with them. For me, I could take it or leave it. It was a one-off short transformation in an anime where Sonic pretends to be Star Trek for a season, it just exists to me.

Although, it's been awhile since I last saw discussion of Dark Sonic, as a whole it seemed to be a bigger thing in the early 2010s. Possibly because now we have more recent Sonic shows and movies, it's not just X being the latest thing anymore. I certainly don't read fics like I used to, so I'd be surprised if it is still as heavily used as it used to be. Maybe if I get some time, I'll look up some fics and find out.

[0rb0t]

Don't mind me, just talking about Shadow as being on the autistic spectrum, and how his portrayal in the games and anime (before 2010s era) reflected this even if it was never outright stated.

(TIME FOR A CHARACTER ANALYSIS ABOUT SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG)

    When I was in high school, I struggled a lot in social situations, I'd go completely stiff and just watch people. I had a "resting bitch face", I never really could have conversations and seemed to just fixate on things. I'd make observations that irritated people. I'd ask "why" a lot. (Asking why or even asking 'obvious' questions seemed to make people think I was questioning their judgment, or that I was challenging them. But no, I just didn't understand and wanted clarification. I still run into this a lot and I wish people would stop assuming I have ulterior motives. I just wanna understand stuff better cause it doesn't connect for me. Even if it seems obvious. I'm the genius that asked my mom why she was crying at her dad's funeral when I was 11. It's not that I didn't understand why Grandpa was gone, I knew he passed away, but it hadn't really landed for me, and my brain registered my mom's sadness before it registered the why.)

    I didn't like small talk (still don't) and would rather every interaction have a specific purpose. You'd never catch me at a party and I didn't think drinking or drugs looked fun or interesting. The act of rebelling didn't interest me either. The few interests I did have were something I'd always go back to, and I couldn't function without them. (For me, drawing has always been a huge part of my life and if I didn't have a pencil or pen and paper, then I couldn't hear. I know, very weird. If I were doodling or just even had my sketchbook open, I could study a lot easier. In High school, my teachers started telling me to put the sketchbook away, and my grades plummeted because my attention did, too. Trying to tell them just kind of led to the same old "well everyone else can't doodle so you can't either". I wasn't in any of the special ed stuff because I guess I masked too well.)

    Sonic 06 and Sonic X have the same characterization for Shadow, especially in Japanese, and I think that's honestly the best he'd ever been-- he's quiet, he's reserved, he observes and he doesn't like to "waste time". Not because he's edgy, not because he's a jerk or too serious, but because he struggles in social situations and he's more introverted. He doesn't want to be the centre of attention, he doesn't enjoy any of that. Shadow also behaves like an adult, and I'm sure a ton of us on the spectrum have heard that before, that we're very mature for our age. In reality, we can't relate with our peers and have very fixated interests that don't really expand to other things. Limited interests and we just wanna do stuff tied to that. We know so much about that one thing or those things, but those things won't get you ahead in school. Unless you're LUCKY and your fixation is math, oy vey! (My fixation was etymology. I loved learning and knowing where words came from. Useful for 2 seconds in English class, quickly loses its usefulness in a skill-oriented world.)

    I don't even think he's naturally boastful, at least he wasn't since SA2 (when he was an antagonist), but Sonic brings out a competitive side in him. Sonic brings out the childhood-self that he lost to trauma and being sealed away. Shadow never got to be a normal kid/adult. He has always had expectations placed on him. I think Sonic really brings out a side of him that even surprises himself. It's why he will even say very often "What am I doing?" or "This is such a waste of time!" but he won't STOP… Because he's having fun and doesn't know how to describe his own feelings. Shadow's the type who'll say "I'm fine" no matter what state he's in when you ask if he's okay. My spouse is like this actually-- I can often tell when he's feeling down, but he doesn't know how to describe emotions beyond functional things like "i'm healthy" or "i'm unhealthy", so he'll say he's fine even if he's having a melancholy day. I struggle with understanding my emotional responses, but not necessarily identifying them. A lot of people on the spectrum do struggle with identifying their emotions beyond empirical things. "Do I feel sick? No? then I'm fine" Shadow is exactly like this. And because his expression is so neutral, sometimes intense, he gets mistaken as being angry or too serious. In reality, he's just standing there. He's not gonna expend energy smiling when he's got nothing to smile about. Why force yourself to emote for people? Especially if it feels unnatural.

    Another thing about Shadow being autistic is if he's got nothing to say, then he won't say it. If he wants to leave, he'll leave. Good luck stopping him! But for many actual people it's not an option to leave. We can't just teleport out or skate at lightning speeds like he can, so we have to just sit there and do little coping or self soothing methods to keep ourselves in the moment and calm. We don't often see Shadow stimming in traditionally understood ways, like lip biting or rubbing his arms or fidgeting with his fingers-- but he often stands with his arms crossed. This CAN BE a stim. Feeling the weight of your arms on top of each other, it allows for you to be aware of your own body. I fold my arms a lot in public, because I'm usually playing with the hem of my sleeves, or I'm rubbing my arms or squeezing them. Shadow doesn't seem to do any of that but he's rarely seen without his arms folded.

    When his arms aren't folded, he stands so still and just stares at people. He looks completely out of his element. He doesn't seem to have a relaxed stance--until the anime, where he's shown standing with his hand on his hip. Rouge also does this, leading to the popular headcanons that Shadow is unintentionally imitating Rouge-- his masking leads him to identify the most 'normal' person in the room and copy their behavior in order to blend in better. Unfortunately it rarely, in my experience, leads to people NOT thinking I'm weird. Sometimes I'll even start imitating speech patterns or accents and BOY. I don't even realize I'm doing it until it HAPPENS. So embarrassing. But Shadow absolutely imitates everyone around him. We can see him do this even as far back as Sonic Heroes--that scene where he's nodding or shaking his head to whatever Rouge is saying. The scene where Sonic starts getting competitive and Shadow starts kind of imitating his posture and his way of speaking to become competitive with them-- I don't even think he realizes he's doing it. But it also makes sense with his NAME.

    His name is Shadow. I think of Peter Pan, where Peter's Shadow can sometimes get away from him. Usually it does everything he does, but sometimes it gets away and does its own things, and Peter has to catch it. Wendy sews the shadow back on in Hook. I think Shadow's name is referencing that as well, that just like a shadow, he mimics those around him. He's watching over them, but also copying them. Learning to blend in.

    Another moment I adore is in SA2 (and Sonic X) when Amy Rose hugs him from behind. According to the 2010s era and early IDW, you'd have expected Shadow to push her away or yell DONT TOUCH ME or whatever. But no, he actually just goes REALLY RIGID and doesn't even say anything. It isn't until Amy realizes her mistake that Shadow turns around to look at her, smiling like 'What are you doing???' But in Sonic X, they changed this scene further into autistic territory--

    Shadow doesn't even TURN to her. He goes rigid, yes, and his eyes widen and he just stands there looking towards the audience like 8| He's completely OUT OF HIS ELEMENT. He prepared for the mission, NOT to deal with random people HUGGING HIM. He's probably not been hugged since Maria over 50 years ago. We don't even know if Maria hugged him much because Shadow has always seemed pretty touch-averse. I love GIVING hugs and I love receiving hugs but only from people I'm REALLY close to. I don't even like getting hugs from extended family. My spouse? VERY touch averse. He'll get hugs from me but hugging and touch are just not his thing. Shadow is not a huggy person, but he does tend to hold hands.

    We know he grabbed and held Maria's hand, running with her-- but we never actually saw that until Sonic X (2003) he can be seen running with her away from the military, and he's holding her hand as he leads her. In Shadow the Hedgehog, Maria often grabs Shadow's hand when telling him things. This is also a grounding method to bring the person into the moment. For me, I feel like I can focus better on what my spouse is saying to me when he holds my hand and it's crowded or busy. Even in our home, if he wants to tell me something, I recommend that he hold my hand or touch my arm so I can focus on him better. This happens with Shadow.

    Sonic doesn't tend to hold peoples' hands. In Sonic X he usually just picks people up, but we do see him grab Elise's arm in 06 and run with her. But holding hands? Not really his thing! Shadow does do it more often though. In Sonic X S3, in the episode, Molly's Dream, Shadow's immediate way of leading Molly away from danger is to grab and hold her hand. He even keeps holding her hand until she lets go. It speaks to me the sort of childlike behavior he may still be exhibiting, but not that I'm trying to say that autistic people are more like children. From my experience on the spectrum, I am more childish than my peers. I still react like a kid might to things, and I don't really think like an adult is expected to. I am mentally behind my peers as well, I think my emotional maturity is lower? But it's hard to measure that without a doctor. It's not just about laughing at fart jokes or knowing to pay bills, it's like, how I problem solve is more creatively aligned with kids than it is adults. This is both great and terrible, depending on the situation. A situation that requires math and stuff cannot be solved my way. A situation that involves encouraging kids to try again or be nice to each other, well it's very useful because I can communicate with them on their level (I was a teacher in South Korea for over half a decade, my brain was great for being a teacher but not great for other things).

    I think Shadow really gets misread as a mean guy a lot, but he really isn't. I also don't really enjoy the headcanons that imagine him as very outgoing and whimsical when he was on the ARK, and I especially don't like headcanons that infantilize him-- I really don't like headcanons where people infantilize autistic people. We've seen Shadow when he loses his memories a few times. In Heroes, but also in S3 of Sonic X-- his personality is still the same. He's still reserved, he's still quiet, he still struggles in social situations and prefers getting to the point rather than dilly-dallying. I'd argue that he was exactly like that before the incident on the ARK, too. It's just that the incident caused his inner peace to be destroyed. His precious person, Maria, was no longer around and he lost everything all at once. He doubled down on the one thing that made sense: Revenge. But even after all of that was sorted out, he's not gonna just magically be a different person. He's still reserved, he's still serious, he's still "get to the point". If he played FFXIV, he'd only focus on main quests, and never do side quests. He'd never spend money on cosmetics, probably. He's likely a person who values gameplay over story. If the game is broken or the mechanics aren't utilized well, that's probably more what he'd be fixated on than whether the story was good or not. He'd skip through dialogue because he reads fast, even if the dialogue is voiced (my spouse does this and it drives me nuts. SHADOW I BEG OF YOU PLEASE DO IT FOR ME, DISABLE THE VOICE ACTING IN OPTIONS SO I STOP HEARING THE FIRST UTTERANCE OF A WORD EVERY TIME U MASH THROUGH THE DIALOGUE)

    Trauma affects people in all kinds of ways. I don't think all autistic people are like Shadow, because autism is a spectrum and no two people present exactly the same, although there will be similarities. Shadow's trauma happened at a time where he barely knew himself already, so that's why it was so easy for him to fixate on revenge, and then he'd be content with dying afterwards because he figured he had nothing left to live for. Finding out he was wrong was the best thing that could have happened to him.

    I was really saddened when SEGA decided he was an edgelord who hated everything and had no friends because that's such a horrible read of this nuanced character. In my personal headcanons for Shadow, he's actually very into plants and flowers, because Maria loved the planet so much. And eventually he learns to love the planet because of nature. Shadow's never going to be a people person, in fact he probably still doesn't care much for people as a whole, but that doesn't mean he won't step up when they need his help. Which is why his line in Sonic 06 is still so poignant. "If the world chooses to become my enemy, then I'll fight like I always have." Basically, it really doesn't matter, I've made my choice, I know who I am now and I get to make those decisions. No one else will shake the foundations of who I am.

    And because he knows who he is, he doesn't feel the need to repeat it and boast about himself. He's confident, not arrogant. He can be smug and competitive, but that's playfulness, not cruelty. He's quiet and may just straight up walk away while someone is mid-sentence, but that's not because he's evil or intentionally being a jerk-- it's just how he is. He needs to work on it if he wants to have friends, but his friends already understand him very well. They know that he's like that, and from what we saw in The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog, occasionally they forget it's not personal. I'm happy to see them admitting "oh no, I completely misjudged you, I'm so sorry!" because it's been way too long since we've heard the main cast apologize to Shadow for assuming he was a big jerk on purpose.

    Knowing the restrictions on how Shadow is written have been lifted, I'm really hoping we can get more of how he's meant to be, the reserved, socially awkward but well-meaning hedgehog we love. Autistic Shadow FTW!

    

(our experiences and headcanons

may differ, that's okay.)

[niko-jpeg]

NIKO!!! HAI!!!!

Got any fun facts about Camp Green Hill (or any other AU's you might have) you'd like to share with the class?

Also stay safe! It's getting hot!! Drink water and wear sunscreen!

HI SCRAP!!! I do. I always do. I'll run through a bunch of misc Camp Green Hill stuff <3

Blaze has a family! She's the eldest daughter and in line to inherit the throne when her parents step down, and has a pair of twins for siblings, who are a few years younger than her. Silver is quite well liked among her family (and in the Sol dimension, lol), and they have a little nickname for him: Slipper! Both in regards to how clumsy he was growing up, and also just because its really cute. This is based on the intentional incorrect spelling of his name when referring to him affectionately in the fandom. It tickles my brain, lol. Not only is he practically a member of the royal family, but one time, one of the twins asked who would get the throne if Blaze were to not be able to. Without missing a beat, their mother informed them that it would be Silver, actually.

...He doesn't realize they're dead serious, by the way. If things really were to go wrong, they want Silver to take over until the twins are old enough to take care of the empire. lol. Also, Marine! She comes way late, but she does eventually show up!

Shadow is not only a trained agent, but also a trained therapy hedgehog! I'm serious. He was taught how to manage other people's emotions and act as temporary therapist. He's also warm, fluffy, and okay with being cried on, so he's perfect for the job.

Omega is in the au! He shows up later down the line, and after the events of the au, goes to live with Rouge and Shadow in the city working for GUN too.

Sonic has a horrible history with water activities and accidentally getting stuck in the mangroves and brambles lining the shore. Its really funny how horrible his luck is.

Shadow was based loosely on a hedgehog to appeal to Maria, since he was planned to be part time therapy-hog from the start. Mephiles was loosely based on Shadow. This makes Mephiles EXTREMELY far removed from a real hedgie to some degree. Its kind of hilarious.

Amy has a never ending stash of jelly bracelets, Shadow has a never ending stash of coffee beans, and Tails never seems to be in short supply of goggles. Where does he get them?

Tails and Sonic have their own rooms on the camp, but stay in the dorms with the rest of the campers during the summer!

Tikal is a really sweet ghost who haunts the ruins nearby. She's plot relevant, trust me ;)

The Storybook games are planned to be fever dreams from our dear Sonic while fending off a cold. But they could have a little more validity behind them than it may appear...

Rouge plays saxophone! In fact, there are several musically talented members of the camp, both campers and staff!

Uncle Chuck eventually gives up on paperwork and makes his campers swear that whatever happens in camp stays in camp. He decides this after the SA2 plot equivelent. Especially now with 2 whole government agents there, one working as a counselor and the other a camper.

The Chaotix are a fun bunch! Vector works whatever misc job he can get around the camp so Charmy and Espio can go for free. They're an inner city family, and don't have much money. He also has a crush on the camps' nurse, Vanilla. Espio wants to be a detective, and has a special interest in detective work. Charmy came into the equation more recently, as Vector took custody of the kid after a family friend begged him to.

I've always got more, if anyone would like to ask about a specific character, game, plot point, or ask about details on the camp! Asks for the characters will open very soon too, and you can send them in if you'd like. Thanks for asking <3

[hadesknockedupintheunderworld]

Okay, I've decided that I need to share it with more people so I'm reposting the quick analysis that I did of Tails' Character theme under this post.

The following under the cut is the original analysis

ㅤ

I have actually been waiting for an excuse to break down the lyrics of Tails' theme (Sonic Adventure version here but I'd actually suggest listening to the SA2 ver here) from the Adventure titles, and so I suppose the time is now!

So what I don't think I can overstate is that Tails' desires for the future, his wishes to become stronger, his wishes to be cooler, all of these are sort of hopelessly entertwined with Sonic. He wants to be cool like Sonic. In the JP manual, his personality as it is explicitly comes about because of his desire to be like him. So even if he ultimately cannot be Sonic or even if he becomes his own type of hero, a lot of who he is as a hero/person and his goals are connected to Sonic.

I should make clear right now that I'm not saying everything about Tails revolves around Sonic. (Just like Riku kh in relation to Sora kh) I think it's very clear that Tails has interests and possibly even friends outside of him. Not every bit of him revolves around Sonic, but that doesn't mean he isn't connected to him.

Tails' love of machinery/technology or fascination in different fields of study—none of these were derived from Sonic. His interest in mechanics/machines/technology specifically came about before he initially became interested in Sonic. However, it's hard to ignore that he derived his personality from trying to be like Sonic, he wants to be cool like Sonic, he admires Sonic, he follows Sonic around, he wants to be a hero like him, etc etc

Okay, with that out of the way, the lyrics. These lyrics, in a way, exemplify how connected Sonic is to the way of life and the goals Tails has chosen.

ㅤ

"When all alone in my chair/I just go about wishing/Wanna be strong/Really wanna be trusted aah"

When the song begins, it seems as if he's lamenting his position. He mentions that he wants to be strong and trusted (For what?), and this beginning part with the "Aah" gets across...how emotional he is about this (frustrated perhaps). Is it that because he's always with Sonic, or is it because since he's not as prominent a figure as him, people don't trust him as they do Sonic? Is it that he feels that he cannot prove himself as things are? And the comment about being strong... Is it that he generally wants to be stronger, or is it that he's afraid he's not strong enough to continue to be with Sonic?

ㅤ

"When all alone in my bed/I just go about yearning/Wanna be cool/I also wanna be like him"

Now, this part fits pretty much with what we know about Tails. We know he wants to be cool, that he admires Sonic, that he wants to be like him. But there are two things I want to point out.

First, the word choice of "yearning" here is very interesting. As I said earlier, Tails' goals and ambitions, they seem to be hopelessly connected to Sonic. This leads into my second point—the clear separation between "I want to be cool" and "I also wanna be like him". It would be easy enough to say that Tails wants to be cool like Sonic or that he wants to be cool and wants to be like cool like him, but the "I also" separates these two points. Though we know from evidence (namely the jp manuals) that Tails wants to be cool and specifically looks to Sonic for the inspiration on how to become this way (trying to be like him), it's interesting how these lyrics specifically state that he wants to be like him the way they do. Like, yes Tails wants to be cool, but it almost suggests that he'd want to "be cool" no matter where he looked to inspiration on finally "being cool", and so "I also want to be like [Sonic]" seems to suggest that he wants to be cool in general, but he also wants to be like Sonic.

Essentially what I'm getting at is that his wanting to be cool is not necessarily because of Sonic, but he does want to be like Sonic (which may imply he wants to be cool specifically in the way Sonic is). And when you pair up Tails "yearning" about the kind of fox he wants to be, and that "yearning" centering thoughts of Sonic, well

You understand op's comment about how the song is about how Tails sits in his chair thinking about Sonic, right? Even if you disagree with "madly in love with", it's very clear just how highly Tails thinks of Sonic, how when he's all alone yearning, he thinks of Sonic while he thinks of his ideal self. Sonic is connected with his ideal self and future (in terms of how and who he wants to be), and yet he also yearns thinking of him.

And perhaps kinda gay to yearn while thinking about your best friend

ㅤ

"But that's not something/I can do so easily/This is not simply my way/My own style/Gotta get ahold of my life"

Now, this portion actually presents a great deal of awareness from Tails. Sure, he wants to be cool. He yearns when he's in bed, thinking about Sonic, how he wants to be like him.

But he recognizes the futility of it. It's not so easy to simply be like Sonic, especially because Tails is neither him nor exactly like him. No matter how much he thinks or yearns, being exactly like Sonic does not fit him. Sonic's style is not his style, and (based on the "Gotta get ahold of my life") I interpret this portion as Tails coming to the unfortunate realization that just letting things be as they are now, trying to be exactly as Sonic is in all its futility, is keeping him stagnant. Ironically, he cannot grow or be a hero like Sonic as long as he simply tags along and only plays backup or simple support. He cannot grow by trying to be like Sonic in ways he can never be. He has to get ahold of his life and figure out how to move forward instead of letting things stay just as they are (and clearly, given the earlier lines, the way things are now frustrates him).

ㅤ

"I wanna fly high/So I can reach the/Highest of all the heavens/Somebody will be/Waiting for me so/I've got to fly higher"

Now, this section is also highly interesting to me. Tails wants to fly high, he wants to (figuratively) reach the highest of all the heavens, he wants to be strong, he wants to be trusted. And while I think he does want this for himself partially for the sake of having these things and growing, the second half of this part might imply another reason that he wants to fly so high.

"Somebody will be waiting for me"

"Somebody"? Who is this somebody? He has to fly higher, reach the highest of the heavens, better himself, become stronger, because there's somebody already there waiting for him?

Well, given that earlier in the song the lyrics never confirm outright who "he" is, but we can safely infer that "he" is Sonic based on context clues and prior knowledge of Tails, I believe that this "somebody" is also Sonic.

While you could read it as him just saying that there are people out there waiting for him to save him, this place where somebody (singular) will be waiting for him is where the "highest of all the heavens" is. He has to fly higher to reach the highest of the heavens, and he has to fly higher because someone is waiting for him there. And so, to me, if someone is waiting for him, in the highest of all the heavens that he wishes to fly high enough to reach (a place that seems to be a metaphor for the place he wants to be, the point he wants to grow to, where he will reach a version of his best self), then that person must be Sonic. Sonic is someone he greatly admires, someone who's trusted and revered as a hero, someone who is cool. Sonic is someone he wishes to be like, easily someone who (to Tails) has already reached the highest of the heavens of his own merit.

And so, I move, that not only does Tails want to be strong and cool and become his ideal self for the sake of it, but he wants to "reach the highest of the heavens" so he can continue to be with Sonic—so he can be with Sonic as an equal, someone who ultimately is on his level as a partner, as two people who are better together, rather than someone who simply tags along or plays backup or simple support.

Ultimately, I think he wants to become his own person and ideal self for his own sake, and so he can rightfully be by Sonic's side.

ㅤ

"When all alone in my sleep/I just go about dreaming/I see myself there/Having the same adventure/If I just follow you/I will never see the light/Now is the time to find my way/Through this life/Trying so hard to be strong/I've gotta keep going/Everything is a brand new challenge for me and/I will believe/believe in myself/This is the only way for me"

So when he's alone and he's dreaming, he's dreaming about the same adventure. Is it a dream of an adventure he wishes for, or is it a sign of stagnation—that the adventure as it is is always the same?

I think "If I just follow you/I will never see the light" is a bit more clear/pointed, though. As I went over before, things will never get better or change if they stay the way they are. If he simply continues to follow Sonic, he will never "see the light" (or, perhaps, reach "all the heavens"). So he has to keep pushing, keep trying, keep bettering himself and following his own path, because he cannot grow if he is confining himself only to following Sonic and dreaming of being like him. Ironically, I think he's come to this conclusion partially because he cannot be who he wants to be or be a real asset to Sonic (or on the same level as him) simply by following him. However, by forging his own path and being his own hero, he can "see the light", reach the "highest of all the heavens", be like Sonic without being exactly like him.

I apologize for repeating myself, I just feel as if these lyrics are clear to me about what Tails wants for his life and what he wants his relationship with Sonic to look like. He recognizes what he needs to do to feel good about himself, to become his best self/achieve his goals, and how he can truly stand by Sonic's side rather than simply follow him around.

ㅤ

"Many friends help me out/In return I help them/Certain things I can do/And there are things that only I can do/No one's alone/I wanna fly high/So I can reach the/Highest of all the heavens/Somebody will be/Waiting for me so/I've got to fly higher"

There are things only he can do

So I listened to this song and looked at the lyrics again just so I could type up this sort of breakdown. The very first time I listened to the song in the past, this line did not stand out to me the same way it does now.

And if you don't know why (understandable for the record), it's because the JP localization of Tails' part of the story in Frontiers specifically centers on this idea of him "doing the things only I can do". As he despairs about whether or not Sonic needs him, about how he just follows Sonic around and about how Sonic has to be there to save him, about how he can't just be like Sonic, Sonic confesses that he admires Tails for being able to do what he can't. And so, then Tails realizes that there are things only he can do. Not being able to be exactly like Sonic and do the things he can do is not a detriment, because he can pick up Sonic's slack. He can save the people only he can save. Quite literally, with their different styles and abilities, the two of them fill each other's gaps, they make up where the other falters. Working together, they can help a lot of people!

And so "there are things only I can do" is inspiring, because he doesn't need to be like Sonic to be a hero. He doesn't need to be exactly like Sonic to be his ideal self. And by working to strengthen his own skills and abilities and focusing on doing the things only he can do, he can be an asset to Sonic.

Not just an asset, but an equal in his own right!

(By the way, here is a fan translation of JP Frontiers I would highly suggest watching—if not just to see how they localized all the scenes and story between Sonic and Tails. Where Eng has Tails center on the idea that he must separate from Sonic and go on a journey to become his own hero, JP has Sonic and Tails recognize the feats he's already accomplished, and they balance Tails' wish to continue to be at Sonic's side and be needed with the concept that all he really needs to do to ease his frustration and grow is to shift his focus. He doesn't need to leave Sonic or do more journeying outside of him. He's already done that. In JP Frontiers, he simply just needs to realize how he can be an asset and be an equal without having to be exactly like Sonic, and I personally feel that this fits Tails' arc better. But anyways, I digress)

ㅤ

So, as the song comes to a close, and we leave off on Tails' wish to fly high to reach the highest of the heavens, where someone is waiting for him, what is this song about?

"Believe in Myself"

The title itself is definitely part of it. To progress to where he wants to be, to improve, he has to believe in himself. He has to believe that he can do it, even if it's hard. He has to believe that he's capable of reaching his goals.

I think this theme song is about how Tails is frustrated with the way things are now, about him recognizing that he must forge his own path if he wishes to move forward from here and become his ideal self, about how he must persevere and believe in his ability to reach his goals and live up to his ambitions, and about how he must focus on being himself and doing the things only he can do so he can stand by Sonic's side as an equal, not a follower.

So, in conclusion, I think there's a fair bit of ammo in here if you want to read this theme as gay. And while I'd personally elaborate more on op's statement, I also believe that Tails' character theme makes clear just how important Sonic is to Tails (and how much he lives in his head rent free just to yearn while thinking about him or by wanting to stand upon his pedestal with him).

[fernsnailz]

you dont need to answer this if you don’t want to btw but ive read and enjoyed a lot of your analysis and lore dump stuff so. thoughts on the paramount sonic movies? (especially the second one + thoughts on whatever they might do with Shadow Stuff in the 3rd movie)

thanks! though honestly, i don't really have that many thoughts/opinions on sonic 1 and 2? i just think they're. fine. imo they get all of the characters down well - i'll defend versions of sonic that lean into a little rambunctious childishness, and tails and knuckles are the best part about the second movie. but that's kinda about all i have to say on them, they never left much of an impact on me.

while i don't normally like to make predictions or pitches for upcoming movies/media (because i always get disappointed when something is never as good as the fan pitches i see), i do have some general thoughts on what i'd like to see from the third movie. it seems like they'll be drawing from SA2 for a number of things, but i don't want a beat-for-beat retelling of that game. i'd like to see how they integrate it into the world of the paramount movies and create a unique version of that story - for example in sonic 2, james marsden's character (don't remember his name lol) mentions that his family has been around green hills for 50 years doing... something idk i dont remember. 50 years is a very important timestamp regarding Shadow Lore. if that character's history is integrated into shadow's past, i think that would be an interesting way to build up a struggle between sonic's family and shadow, and i want the drama. i want this movie to hurt me emotionally as much as it can.

and as excited as i am for shadow in the third movie, i do REALLY hope they at least introduce amy as well. i'm not sure if we'll see many new faces since balancing that many characters in a feature film is a lot to ask (unless you're marvel and you don't care about writing interesting characters AYOOO), but i don't care to see a sonic world without amy. her compassion and heroism is something that would bring a lot of life to these movies, which is something i think this particular series could use. plus, while i don't want an exact retelling of SA2, i don't think you can have a shadow origin story without amy. at least not one i like. yes im still a little mad they gave her moment to chris in sonic x. i know why they did it like i get it. but also maaaannnn c'mon where's amy :(

also they should give shadow a gun and let tails kill the president

[crusherthedoctor]

Just wanted to chime in to say: you have every right to criticize those parts of the fandom that spend their time giving others grief and overall acting like sub-human beings for nothing more than a fictional blue hedgehog, and you shouldn't feel bad for being vocal about it

I think you did the right call in somewhat distancing yourself from the fandom and the series to an extent in order to concentrate yourself on things that make you happier. I know from experience that it's not easy, as I've also similarily distanced myself from Sonic for similar reasons, although I've thankfully never experienced the kind of harassment that you and others have faced

In the end spending too much time in an environment that is mostly toxic 24/7 will only do you harm and even run the risk of bringing out the very worst in those who live in it

You and I don't always agree on things and I'm certainly no perfect beacon on how to handle life in a fandom, so maybe I've got no legs to stand on so to speak, but for what it's worth just know that I'm on your side on this

People get so snippy over me constantly bringing up the community's infamous moments and bad habits, yet they never stop to consider why I keep bringing them up. Maybe I wouldn't need to if more people in the community actually learned from them and made a modicum of effort to get their shit together instead of acting like frustration in one's lane is somehow worse than an actual mob crying for blood. If no one brings attention to it, nothing will ever improve in it. But they don't want to improve, so instead it's Deadly Gang this and Deadly Gang that. After all, Crusher's not an artist, or an animator, or a translator. No, he's a fanfic writer, so what does he know about anything, amirite?

I have no more patience with the fandom. The current state of the franchise itself - with exceptions like Dream Team and Superstars - continues to alienate me, all the while everyone expects me to shut up and consume despite them always screaming about Pontaff Bad. The SA2 milking has made me more sick of something I didn't think I could get more sick of. A writer who didn't earn his position continues to be everywhere I look. Characters are having their importance and contributions ranked by power levels by fans and now the franchise itself it seems, given Sonic and Shadow's new throwaway forms as of recent. Eggman, my favourite villain of all time, continues to get desecrated piece by piece, in a way that might possibly stick in the long run, and my concerns about this and why the intention behind the Sage/Maria stuff doesn't matter either way keep getting dismissed as me being too dumb to understand the mere concept of nuanced writing.

I could get in everyone's faces. I could start shit and use my awful experiences as a flimsy excuse. But I don't do that. I focus on other things, like Paper Mario and Spyro. I turn to my own work to get away from it all. I create my own stories where I portray Eggman, and everyone else I use, to the best of my ability. I try to insert themes and meaning to my creations, regardless of how simple their premises may seem. I try to be productive during this period of disillusionment and isolation.

Yet this too is problematic. I'm told to stop writing, because "lol no one reads your shit".

I don't know what people expect me to do.

[cosmicsponge2004]

THE TRUTH ABOUT SONIC'S EYES!!!! - Part 02: It all went wrong

This issue is so great it has 2 Parts!!

Check out Part 1: https://www.tumblr.com/cosmicsponge2004/737460712226553856/

Now that you've seen it, We back gang. Here's one of the few pics where Sonic displays a non-neutral/happy/angry expression and it's actually drawn correctly. Here's another (Season 1)

Let's get back on topic.

First off, SONIC ADVENTURE (1998, DC)

Sonic's eyes were actually done right

The issue comes with KNUCKLES & AMY

Amy is the most consistent & persistent issue

SA2 (only her)

Heroes (only her)

The worst one imo... SONIC X

Yes, while the beginning got Sonic right, that was not to last. And Amy once again was always an issue. Knuckles was inconsistent

Amy's problem is in THE MODEL SHEETS

More recently another issue has emerged. Not just Sonic Channel but the IDW COMICS

Among other issues with IDW's art, the art staff also seems to take the X influence in their misunderstanding of conjoined eyes. Maybe that just happens to people who aren't rubberhose fans? Idk. Here's the pics

This kills me. Here's more

I just about exceeded Tumblr's image limit and made by point clear so here's one more. From THE MURDER OF SONIC THE HEDGHOG

This game generally looks nice but the eyes are off, again. To an annoying degree!!!

All this upsets me and it's ALMOST always ugly. I can't really campaign for change cause 1. That stuff don't work, and 2. Even if it did work, I'm on TUMBLR. I'm lucky if 200 random basement dwellers see this.

I just wanted to make this issue known and hope one day it goes away. And also why is it ALWAYS AMY!?

One more eye issue, and it's FRICKIN' AMY AGAIN!! this one was explained by a twitter. I know people don't like him and he believes in the whole hyperstrict SEGA comic mandate conspiracy but he makes good points here and shows off something I thought I was just imagining. Maybe we're not crazy in this silly little fanbase

Ciao, Yall!! ✌️

Get it because ciao means goodbye but it also sounds like Chao. Like the tiny Sonic creatures, cause this is a Sonic post. I like Sonic Adventure 2 for the SEGA Dreamcast, can ya tell??

[beevean]

Honestly, as someone who wasn't a huge fan of Frontiers from a gameplay or story perspective, I couldn't help but feel alienated from the fanbase for a while. People seem to praise it up the ass, and I honestly don't see what their seeing in the game. And often times when you point out criticism, you get responses like "It's a step in the right direction, we should praise it" or "You're not a real Sonic fan if you don't like this"

Are you me? :^)

After all the shit we endured with IDW and its endless, vitriolic discourse about its writing and take on Sonic and Eggman and its "deep" morality (which stopped being deep once Flynn got tired of the discourse, then it became "a book for kids")... Frontiers broke me. Again, I must stress: it's not about the game, because I haven't played it and videos don't make it justice. I can believe it's a fun experience. But the writing is honestly '06 level of bad, mostly for how boring and pretentious the story is.

Where are all these deep, emotional character moments? Where are all these compelling character arcs (that are totally not rehashes of past games)? Where is Sage's depth? Why are we praising Eggman sitting on his ass for 90% of the game and then suddenly developing fatherly feelings when past games made clear that he's only proud of his creations when they make him look good and he's more than willing to abuse them for the slightest transgressions (which Sage has made)?

Then you add the forced references (some of them straight up wrong, like the Neo Metal one), the meta jokes, the completely unnecessary lore that to this day I still don't understand, the underwhelming villain, the wasted conflict of Sonic getting corrupted, the lackluster finale, and the fact that literally nothing happens - which would be fine if this game had a tone more like Heroes or Generations, which were aware that story was their lowest priority, but no, this game wants to be DEEP, a step in the right direction after the EVIL PONTAFF! (I still find very... unprofessional? that Flynn wrote a jab at Baldy McNosehair in one of the Egg Memos. It's not even the first time he does that, he also did it in IDW. I get it man, you think your writing is so much better, "thanks for putting the chili back on my dog" :^) )

So anyway. It got to the point where the praise genuinely made me feel like there was something wrong with me. I don't like IDW, I don't like Frontiers, now I don't see anything promising in Prime - am I a bad Sonic fan? Am I being stripped of something that gave me joy since I was 8? I had to distance myself. I had to keep my few friends close and think about the parts I still enjoy.

It's not the first time I took a "break" from Sonic - the period from 2013 to 2017 was... bad. But everyone else agreed that it was! That's the thing. It's one thing to disagree that SA2 is a masterpiece, because fine, whatever, you can't always agree with the majority. But when it comes to modern material, the majority is so vitriolic and nasty, and I can't deal with it anymore. I'll make my own fandom :\

[amy-rose-warrior]

Thoughts on the new trailer, so spoilers for that (Essentially, above everything I am still SO hyped for this movie but admittedly I dooo have some concerns):

Okay getting this out of the way first: I gave trailer one the benefit of the doubt regarding this and it honestly wouldn't be surprising (just disappointing) if they did go down this route but they really seem to be softening GUN'S role in this entire thing? ESPECIALLY if Gerald is like actually still alive and not some sort of ghost or computer program. I think seeing him interact with Shadow will definitely be interesting given he died before Shadow learned just how much Gerald had manipulated him in SA2 but taking out the execution via firing squad bit seems incredibly disingenuous to me. Also how?? Is he still here????? Seriously just how old is this guy.

Still no last minute Rouge reveal but we keep dreaming.

I was almost dead certain that the ARK was underground instead of in space or something and the black hole thingie was going to be the world-destroying Eclipse Canon equivalent. Mostly due to I heard of a line from the Knuckles series (only watched the first three episodes) that the bowling alley Knuckles and Wade went to had alien visitors fifty years prior which made no sense if Shadow was in space. I'll have to check for myself to see if that line is actually real but alternatively I will accept if the alien in question was Black Doom.

Knuckles was the best part of the trailer hands down.

SHADOW WAS SO COOOOL. I did think it made more sense for Shadow not to have a gun but I lost my fucking mind when he picked it up in the coolest way possible in the trailer so like. Whatever fine you won this time. Shadow with a gun will always be iconic. His run too are you serious. How can I be okay after any of this. I'm not really building to anything with this one I just want to pat his little head.

The Maria glimpses they keep teasing us with are going to kill me I think.

Actually we're circling back around to Rouge. I wasn't really expecting Amy this movie but c'mon are you serious. I may have forgiven them if it looked like any of their human woman characters were going to be more relevant but I think I saw like one glimpse of Rachel and I don't remember seeing Maddie outside that first scene of her. Where was Jojo. Can we please have something for the girls. Still so mad they had every reason to put Tikal in the Knuckles series and opted for her dad and Wade instead (AND THEN THEY DO THE EXACT SAME THING WITH GERALD COME ONNNN). Silver stans I love and see you but if the post-credits scene is him and not Amy or at least Metal Sonic (Sonic CD adaption can be real) I'm going to do something drastic.

Paramount you have one chance to reference THE iconic Snapcube bit do not fucking blow this for us.

[egg-emperor]

New lore was dropped by Iizuka at a fan Q+A apparently. Interestingly, it's been revealed that Eggman is below the age of 50, that he never personally knew Gerald and Maria, his father was one of Gerald's two sons and that he is younger than Maria.

I find all of this fascinating.

You scared me LMFAO my heart stopped and blood ran cold for a sec but before I could go through all the stages of grief I was like hold on lemme see that source and found that isn't the case phew. If it was final that he was so young in his 40s I'd be devastated lol. Not just because I wouldn't want to believe it but also all the evidence suggests otherwise.

They considered putting him at 60 in the Sonic CD concept art, he's referred to as old and middle-aged, uses the Washi pronoun in JP, is associated with the Respect for the Aged Day in Japan where senior citizens are apparently 65+. Most recently we have the Egg Memo where Eggman specifies that he "never really knew" Maria, so he had to exist for at least some time when she was alive to feel the need to specify that.

Also, while a bit more speculative, it'd make sense if part of the reason he was so upset about how Gerald's plan to destroy the planet would've resulted in his death too is because he existed at the time even if he was very young, and Gerald would've known he had a grandson despite not meeting him and didn't consider or care for it to stop him. And that hit hard with him being his grandfather and idol he admired so much. I feel it'd kinda water down the impact and weight of it if it was like "He didn't consider that he could've potentially killed his grandson, even though I didn't exist yet." :P

But yeah it wouldn't make sense for him to be so young in his 40s, there's way too much emphasis on him being old and that would be way too young for it. Plus with the memo being solid canon on top of all the hints, it still doesn't make sense if you disregard the rest of the logic. So I was like no this can't be!!!

Then I saw the source to see that Iizuka apparently didn't actually say Eggman "yes, Eggman is 100% under 50" and I'm so relieved lol.

I just wanna break it down so I have something to link to people if this ever comes up in the future:

It was specifically the OP saying Eggman was literally "under 50", as if it was said to be 100% certain and confirmed final fact

But when they quote Iizuka directly, it turns out he apparently said: "His age hasn't been disclosed but he's probably under 50."

I knew they weren't gonna suddenly reveal his solid age now after all his time of it being unknown in all his bios, only heavily hinted at and implied with the examples listed above. If they're finally gonna go all out and finalize a specific age, it's definitely not gonna be at a Q&A.

Iizuka still saying it "is not disclosed" and the use of "probably" doesn't count as confirmation at all. He's just basing an estimate on the logic that if he didn't know Maria and Gerald then he might not have existed at the same time as them at all but all the evidence seems to show otherwise. Either way, it still "is not disclosed." So it's all just probable estimates.

So yeah at first my heart was like *glass shatter sfx* 💔 then I read the actual thread and I was like oh wait nevermind lol ❤️‍🩹 Here's the link to it btw

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Anyway now that we've got that out of the way, let's talk about the other stuff.

It was always obvious that Eggman never knew Gerald personally. He never speaks of direct anecdotes or personal experiences. Hell, he doesn't even know about the ARK before SA2. So of course the same goes for Maria, that was clear before it was confirmed in the Egg Memo.

As for Maria being older than Eggman, I never decided on whether I thought so or not because there wasn't ever anything to actually suggest it. But sure, that can make sense. She can be older than him without it meaning that he didn't exist at any point while she was still alive.

But I'm still definitely under the impression that he did exist for at least some time when she was alive, even if he was very young. He had to be. He specifically emphasizes that he "never really knew" Maria in the Egg Memo. Why would he need to if he never even existed when she was alive? It would've been obvious.

So I feel it implies he didn't *really* know her because while he was alive at the same time even if just a little, he didn't meet her in person and only learned of her through how others talked of her.

Then him mentioning that she was "gone" immediately after is just him then jumping to the part after her death, where he started learning about her more because she became the big subject after her tragic death and then of course he became jealous.

This also adds up with Iizuka saying Eggman didn't learn all this information about Maria until after her death

Here's what I'm thinking. He existed the same time as her even if he was very young but he didn't meet her obviously because she was on the ARK all her life wondering what it was like on Earth and Eggman didn't even know about the ARK until SA2. Then she became the hot topic after her tragic death so Eggman got so somewhat "know" her through their word but still didn't "really" know her because they didn't literally meet. Makes sense!

And lastly, if it's true that he said Eggman's father is Gerald's son then I'm so happy about that, since it's always been my headcanon that he was the paternal grandfather! :D

So yeah this was really just Iizuka saying what me and others have been saying already as far as him not knowing Gerald and Maria personally. Then also him making an unconfirmed non solid estimate of his age with the "probably" but the games and Sonic Channel suggests he has to be 50 AT LEAST. Seems to be over it actually, since he had to be alive some time before the ARK raid/the same time as Maria, even if just for a little while.

[skaruresonic]

🤍, 🖤, 💖, 💔, 💕?

🤍: Which character is not as morally bad as everyone else seems to think?

Lmao how many people can I piss off if I jokingly say "Eggman"?

Huh, this is a tough one. Can't really think of any.

I guess I'll fall back on an oldie but goodie and say the ARK, as a whole, was morally ambiguous. While they weren't performing unethical surgery on Shadow, you also don't develop WMDs in secret without some kind of agenda.

I also think GUN's shadiness fluctuates depending on the game. They seem to have shaped up after the events of ShTH and started acting towards a more collective good in honor of Gerald's memory, but their actions in SA2 suggest an inept government. And, well, you know the old saying about stupidity becoming indistinguishable from malice after a certain point.

I tend to wonder what the Commander's plan was during the events of SA2. Although the game portrays GUN as a bunch of flat-feet until it's revealed that they raided the colony, I can't help but wonder if he in some part manufactured Sonic's framing in order to head public scrutiny off at the pass, much like how they portrayed the raid as an accident reponse. I can't imagine the Commander would have liked it to be known that Eggman stole Project Shadow while it lay under his jurisdiction.

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🖤: Which character is not as morally good as everyone else seems to think?

...Eggman. Just because he speculated on his grandfather's motives once or twice doesn't mean he's rethinking his life choices. The war criminal life didn't choose him, he chose the war criminal life lol.

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💖: What is your biggest unpopular opinion about the series?

THE ENTIRE WORLD CAN FIGHT ME ON THIS BUT YOU ARE TRIPPING IF YOU SAY SA2'S TREASURE HUNTING STAGES ARE WORSE THAN SA1'S. BITCH WHERE. HOW. WHOMST.

AT LEAST THEY'RE NOT COPY-PASTED DIRECTLY FROM SONIC'S LEVELS WITHOUT REGARD FOR KNUCKLES' MOVESET. ROUGE AND KNUCKLES MOVE JUST AS QUICKLY AS SONIC AND SHADOW. "IT TAKES TOO LONG" YEAH BECAUSE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO LEARN THE LAYOUT AND GIT GUD. JESSE WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. THIS IS SUCH A NONSENSICAL CRITICISM FOR A GAME THAT HAS KART RACING. I DON'T GET IT. IT SAYS "TREASURE HUNTING" ON THE TIN. YOU'RE EXPECTED TO LOOK FOR EMERALDS. THAT'S LIKE GOING FISHING AND COMPLAINING ABOUT GETTING WET.

PLUS THE RADAR IN SA1 BUGS ME SO MUCH MORE BECAUSE IT NEVER SHUTS UP. I LIKE THAT SA2'S RADAR DOESN'T DING EVERY TIME I GET CLOSE TO AN UNINTENDED EMERALD SHARD BECAUSE I CAN JUST PICK UP, NO MUSS NO FUSS NO COCONUTS. THIS IS LITERALLY NOT A PROBLEM. OMFG IF I HAVE TO HEAR "SA2's tReAsUrE hUnTiNg SuCkS" ONE MORE TIME

that being said I will agree that Death Chamber and Egg Quarters suck a bag of dicks, particularly Egg Quarters Hard Mode which leaves you at the mercy of the Kikis' wonky AI. motherfuckers always blow themselves up and ruin my A-rank

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💔: If you had to remove one major character from the series, who would you choose?

You all are really gonna hate me, but Blaze. You could remove her from '06's plot and nothing would change. Hell, the fact that she resides in a different dimension inherently means you could remove every single aspect of her circumstances and nothing of the series at large would change.

Idk man, I just don't think she adds much, honestly. Her personality is kind of Mary-Suish while also being underwhelming, as well as largely informed: her fear of heights, for instance, doesn't impact Rush's gameplay at all. She enjoys special exceptions other girl characters don't, and it's a pain in the ass to even include her in a future game because you have to explain why she isn't back in her own dimension.

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💕: What is an unpopular ship that you like?

Is Shadria unpopular enough to count? Guess it's only unpopular with antis.

Oh, well. I'll say Sonegg :P

[prowerprojects]

The stagnation some felt during the 2010s probably played a role in it too. Forces just played the tipping point for some when it came a lot of things. (Japanese crowd seems less loud and nicer about it though.)

Yeah, that's often what I see as the main complaint for him, his screen time. But otherwise, people generally liked how he was portrayed and consider it a definitive version of him. (A definitive. Not THE definitive. It does bring to question how the 3rd film will treat him; cause I see him either gaining something big or fading towards the back. Depending on if more than just Shadow is coming, and if Eggman survived.)

((Heh, the first film could have been a lot of things. Sometimes, not all the stars align. Always hope for it to happen in a fully animated movie instead.))

Well, that's just the Japanese culture ig. Doesn't mean they don't feel the same, they just express it differently.

I don't think it's the screentime, necessarily, it's moreso the fact that his arc in the movie is more or less the repeat of Sonic's arc from the previous movie, which makes it a bit boring and redundant. Him being in the movie more wouldn't necessarily make it better. Though maybe if they'd leaned a bit more into him becoming more confident or proactive with Sonic's support. Maybe a small scene where he decides to steal the plane to follow Sonic. (Like it wouldn't change anything because he already does do that in the movie, but it would help bring attention to his development and highlight the difference between him being scared to follow Sonic at the beginning of the movie. Though ig it would break up the pacing of some other scenes and elevate the feeling danger because you know Tails is coming... idk)

(Also... I think he's a little ugly and it's a bit distracting. Ik that the square head is a part of the basics of drawing Tails, but they could have done it differently for cgi. I think he's way cuter in the Drone Home short where his head is more round)

I hope he's as involved in the next movie as he was in sa2, though I suspect him, Knuckles & Tom and Maddie would have to share the subplot so he'll have to fight for the screentime.