#also just generally 'i don't like how you express your identity' is just. it's discourse that doesn't go anywhere.

[themthistles]

i think that while micro labels can seem useful and affirming ultimately they're isolating and kind of an obstacle to your understanding of self. that's because you can never find a word specific enough. there will never be a label or two labels or even ten, twenty of them to perfectly capture and describe all of your thoughts, feelings, experiences, preferences, needs, interests, identities, etc. because you learn more and more about yourself every day and then you change and your wants and needs change with you. having to hop between labels, fearing that you don't 'fit' into a label anymore (both in your own and others eyes), worrying how soon your current label will wear out, questioning if you'll ever fully fit a single one. all that causes a lot of uncertainty and anxiety which could be avoided by just picking a more general thing and molding it according to what it means to YOU. because words will always mean different things to different people, you will never be understood immediately and maybe never completely by anyone but yourself and that's fine

[a-girl-called-bob]

Like, the thing that bothers me most about the current wave of discourse is the insistence I keep seeing that 'afab trans women' are all just cis women posing for like. clout, or something.

Like, first of all, if a cis person told me that they feel like they have a non-normative gender identity of some kind or another, the likelihood is pretty high that they're not cis. If they're using language or framing that you find problematic, that can be worth talking through, but fundamentally unless you know that they're acting or speaking in bad faith, you really shouldn't do them the disservice of treating them like any other ignorant cis person.

Second, speaking as a trans woman (complicated as my relationship to that may be from time to time), is it really right to say that cis women (or even AFAB people broadly) shouldn't want to be anything like us? That we're defined so much by chasing their gender ideal that they shouldn't have anything to learn from us? How fucking miserable is that? To imagine that we have no qualities worthy of imitation save for those we ourselves are imitating? Bullshit. Any body type, any gender presentation, any look or style or quality of the voice or mannerism can inspire gender envy in any particular person, and it's disingenuous to say that 'womanhood the way we do it' and 'womanhood the way cis women do it' are exactly the same.

So, if you have a problem with someone identifying as a trans woman despite being AFAB, and if you really care that much, I really suggest you put your own feelings aside for a moment and try talking it out. What about trans womanhood appeals to them differently than cis womanhood? Is it some physical feature that they could probably achieve through hormone therapy? Is it just the way that trans women are women 'on purpose'? The language they use may not be what you'd want it to be, but a lot of the language around gender presentation is clumsy and imperfect.

When I was a kid, I told my older sister I wished I was born a girl. This should've been when I realized I was trans, and it's not like she didn't know any trans people at the time, but she just told me that I was only saying that because I didn't understand the struggles women had. It took me seven more years to admit to myself that I was a girl, and two or three more after that to come out to my family. Things have changed a bit over the years, we're fine now, but I think about it a lot. What got that reaction? Was it talking about being 'born a girl'? Was it just, dislike for my terminology that made her snap at me, or was she just not in a place to imagine her snot-nosed little bro as a sister? Maybe if we'd gotten to talk it out then I'd be a different person now.

Maybe if we're less knee-jerk and we talk it out more, less people will miserably repress their identities. Or maybe they're all horrible terrible people trying to get everyone to shut up about trans women's issues by muddying the waters. I'd rather take a chance that some of them are decent folks who don't have the right words - or maybe just don't have words we like - to talk about their experiences. This world is miserable enough without us jumping to conclusions and assuming the worst from everyone who doesn't look like us.

i don't know how ppl can make posts like YOU CANNOT BE XYZ IDENTITY without feeling the overwhelming urge to be that identity. yes i may be amab with a dick and balls but im a afab trans woman now. why are we talking about this. perhaps the harm in "terfs are calling themselves afab trans women" is in the "being a fucking transphobe" bit and not in the "having a weird identity" bit. truly truly truly who gives a shit

[genericpuff]

I don't know the term for creators who became popular outside the traditional steps to "make it" in their profession; then when people started taking their work seriously and giving them criticism, these creators saw it as an attack because they are not used to mentors and studies.

Smythe's professional training is vague at best, being a folklorist. Then there's the creator of the popular hell cartoon that became her own executive producer and director in her 20s (I'm not going to say her name since it tends to attract her rabid fans) and becomes reactive to any kind of criticism on Twitter. Then there's that TikToker Devon Rodriguez, who became popular for sketching people on subways, and when an art critic gave a mild review to his art gallery, Devon unleashed his fans on him.

Like am I seeing a pattern here for artists? And I guess, what do you think we can learn from it.

Ah, so this is a very interesting (and broad) topic that we've touched on in discussions in ULO and other webtoon-related communities. So buckle up, it's time for an ✨essay✨

I think the best way I can sum up my thoughts on this issue is: the vast majority of people who become paid content creators don't seek out a job as content creators, a job in content creation is just something that happens to them.

I say "content creation" because this is something that applies to a lot of other platforms and online mediums as well, such as the examples you included (TikTok, Youtube, Twitch, etc.). And don't get me wrong, it's not like every successful content creator out there didn't work their asses off to get to where they are, but for many... it still involves an element of luck. People don't go to school for it, people don't "apply" to become influencers, and much of it relies entirely on just making stuff until it gets seen and propelled into success.

I think a lot of these issues arise with the creators themselves and how they view their own work. The reality is that many of us artists have been treated as the "rejects" of society, we constantly feel like we're misunderstood and have some deep inner pain that we express through our art, and instead of going to therapy, we come up with OC's. It's a lot more fun and it's a lot cheaper LOL Webcomics naturally wind up being the perfect lightning rod for people who feel that way, where we can pour ourselves into the characters, the world, the narrative, in a way that perfectly mixes our talents for art and our need to express our innermost thoughts and feelings about ourselves and the world around us. So when our art gets criticized or rejected ... it can be hard for a lot of artists to not feel like it's a criticism of the self, a rejection of our identities, an attack on our feelings and experiences, because we've tied so much of ourselves to our work. And this can make that transition very difficult for people who are trying to go pro, because being professional demands separating yourself from your work, at least enough that you can view it objectively, recognize its flaws, seek out pathways to improvement, and not take every bump in the road personally.

A lot of successful creators are people who just never made that transition. It's led to an abundance of professional creators who know how to film themselves or react to content or, in the case of webcomic artists, write stories about their OC's, but don't know how to actually navigate the industry at a professional level. They don't know how to read and negotiate contracts, they don't know what deals are actually good for them and which ones are better left on the table, they don't know how to manage teams of people, they don't know how to react to the attention, praise, and criticism of their audience - they're just doing what they've always done, but now they're making money doing it.

None of this is to speak ill in any way of the creators who've found success and are still just doing what they've always done for money. None of this is meant to be a slight on the creators who are using webcomics and art as an expression of their deeper selves (I do it myself, it's very cathartic!) because ultimately that's what makes your work your work, the fact that you made it, with all your good parts and bad. Many of these creators are capable of running their platform without any issues because they've learned how to play the game, or because their platform is made up of people just like them so their audience is more like just a social circle.

But many of them still also can't operate on a professional level and those are the ones we often see getting called out and held accountable when they do shit like, I dunno, scamming their audiences for money or making alt accounts to manipulate user reviews or plagiarizing from other people's work or just being really REALLY shitty to their own audience.

Often times these are people who are just doing what they'd normally do as a hobby, became well known for it, and managed to turn it into a living. But they never actually learned how to turn their hobby into a job, and themselves into professionals.

And artists especially are prone to this because, let's face it, a lot of us are just weebs having fun drawing our blorbos, so of course if we get a chance to monetize that, we're gonna! We should! We should want to be paid for our work and time and efforts!

But we also have to remember that it's a different ballgame, especially if you're turning your audience into customers. "I'm just a baby creator doing this for fun" doesn't and shouldn't apply anymore once you start signing contracts, selling your art as products, taking people's money to fund your projects, etc. because now it's not just your art, it's what you're expecting people to pay for so you can eat and pay your bills and live.

As much as our art is often personal and should be cherished as such, you can't expect people to want to pay for it if you're not setting a bar and meeting it, or if you're not treating your audience with any amount of dignity or respect.

I'm not saying you're not entitled to having feelings or still wanting to treat your art as art, but the line between art and products is there for a reason, it's to set people's expectations and ensure that both sides are having those expectations met. Webtoon creators suffer from the same thing that a lot of Youtube creators and other types of content creators suffer from in this transition, and I feel like HBomberGuy summed it up best:

"In current discourse, Youtubers simultaneously present as the forefront of a new medium, creative voices that need to be taken seriously as part of the 'next generation of media' - and also uwu smol beans little babies who shouldn't be taken seriously when they rip someone off and make tens of thousands of dollars doing it."

It's not gatekeeping a medium, it's not telling people they aren't allowed to have feelings or to want to still have that personal connection to their work in spite of the professional level it's achieved, it's simply just expecting people to actually live up to the label of 'professional' that they're using to make money.

And this especially goes for someone like Rachel, who claims to be a 'folklorist' despite all the contrary evidence that says otherwise. This is the same person who copy pasted the first result on Google as her source on a simple word definition:

There's a second part to that HBomberGuy quote that also actually applies to Rachel really well in this discussion, concerning how she labels herself a "folklorist" and how that's affected and influenced the greater discussion surrounding Greek myth:

"But on the opposite end, Youtubers who act like serious documentarians gain a shroud of professionalism which then masks the deeply unprofessional things they do. We just saw that with James. I think [James] partially got away with what he's doing for so long because he acts so professional about it, so people assume, 'there's no way he could just be stealing shit!' so they don't check. And on top of that, a lot of James' videos contain obvious mistakes and made-up facts... but because they're often presented next to well-researched stuff he stole, no one questions it. I've seen James repeat a lie in his videos, and then other people claim it's true, and link his video as the proof. He has helped to solidify misinformation by seeming like he's doing his diligence."

There's always going to be discourse over what's legitimate and what isn't when it comes to Greek myth, there are loads of things we still don't know simply due to the knowledge being lost to time. But there's something to be said about a white New Zealand woman using her self-insert romance comic and platform to build a veneer of professionalism and legitimacy around herself, as if she's the authority on the subject, while simultaneously relying on first result Google searches and citing works that have no real foothold in the way of scholarly or "folklorist" discussion.

All that's to say, you're right, her professional training is vague at best. She's never completed a longform comic prior to LO, she's not doing her due diligence in actually engaging with the media she's trying to "retell" and exposing herself to the voices of those from the culture that's tied to it, and she's not holding herself to any sort of standards when it comes not only to being a professional, but a professional who's been held on a pedestal for all these years. She's still operating the same way she was 5 years ago - drawing and writing whatever pops into her head and sending it to her editor for uploading, with next to no intervention or guidance. Except now it doesn't have the benefit of being new and having "potential", it's getting noticed and called out more now than ever because it's been 5 years of this shit and it's been getting worse on account of her clearly being burnt out (or just giving up/not caring) and the readers can't be sold on "potential" anymore.

And that's all I have to say on that.

[absolutebl]

Hi!

I love your Blog and love to read your takes in everything. So thank you so much for all your Posts and thoughts about the industry etc.

Here is my question: i came across one of your posts where you wrote "actually gay, not bl gay" (it was a Post about Jojo and Only Friends) and while I FELT that I TOTALLY understood what you meant and instantly was like "yes 100% clear" Id love to read and learn more about what this means exactly and why some bls feel quite heteronormative while some dont. Would you mind explain the take on "actually gay Not Bl gay" a little bit? And why some Shows feel just more queer than others (besides the unbelievable stupid "gay only for you" trope lol)

Thank you so much and I hope you will have a nice day!

actually gay, not bl gay

There's actually quite a discourse on this right now mostly originating with @waitmyturtles and @wen-kexing-apologist (Post @killiru references above is here.)

I tend to mostly talk about this in broad brush strokes as a queer lens.

But there's a great ven diagram (which of course I've lost the link to) that approaches the idea of and queer lens by tunneling into its approach and intent:

about queers

by queers

for queers

How do different BLs intersect in different ways with these three elements?

When I said "actually gay, not BL gay" I was alluding to this discourse. Specifically the "about queers" category of BL.

There are characters in BL who read as genuinely gay (as in belonging to the queer family of this terrible reality we live in) and then there are those that seem more performative (to exist in a bubble of fantasy were sexual identity is almost unimportant, only the romance matters, everything is safe sweetness & light). For some queers this can read as manipulative or even exploitive (because it is inauthentic to most queer experiences). For me, it's fine... even desirable. I like the safe bubble. I enjoy the utter delusional escapism of it. Sometimes I will call this sanitized gay. (Since it is designed to make gay palatable to non-gay identified folks e.g. seme/uke.)

A sanitized gay BL may be unintentional but it is nested in origin yaoi and mm romance whose target market has never been the queer community, and whose authors have historically not been members of it, either.

Let's be frank, we queers are generally a terrible target market, we don't have enough spending power - especially not for a piece of pop culture as niched as BL. And as creators we really want our voices to be heard (obvs), which makes us produce content that those unsympathetic or uncaring find uncomfortable. (Yes, I know, fuck them, but also, they have all the money and the entertainment industry is a numbers game.)

So in the arena of office romances, just as an example:

actually gay = The New Employee

sanitized gay = Our Dating Sim

actual gay = Step By Step

sanitized gay = A Boss And a Babe

All of the above have the same tropes, archetypes, and premises. All of them are BL. Some are just... queerer feeling than others. And the characters in those shows (Step by Step and The New Employee) read as more "actually gay."

This has nothing to do with the actors, chemsitry, or how much we may personally like the show (Our Dating Sim is one of my absolute favorite BLs). It has to do with how closely those CHARACTERS intersect with the reality of queerness as we inhabit it today. It will be lots of little touches given to the drama by director and script:

language use,

surrounding friendships (and friendship style),

mannerisms and physicality (specially body language around straights vs other queer characters),

makeup & wardrobe,

facial expressions,

surrounding queer-coded behaviors by side characters,

layers of story nuance that indicate a complicated queer-driven back story.

Markers of specifically a queer identity are given to the leads.

These kinds of BLs are satisfying the "about queers" category. ("By queers" can be difficult to extract because IRL outting is involved. "For queers" is the rarest kind of BL, because making something specifically for us often alienates the majority of the rest of viewership/market. I could be argued that SCOY did this.)

I'm sure I've missed things, but I hope that kinda makes sense?

By/For/About discourse from @wen-kexing-apologist here:

Parts 1

Part 2

Part 3

I'm indebted to them for the links!

More Queer Stuff from Yours Truly

BL Linguistics & Queer Identity - I Am Gay versus I Like Men 

Will BL Get More Honestly Queer? 

Queer lens (from the director) and chemistry (from the actors) in BL (A Tale of Thousand Stars)

Touch & Daisy in Secret Crush On You - Queer Coded Language and 3rd Gender Identity

BL in Taiwan & Gay Marriage

Debating Queerbaiting in BL ( + Devil Judge... is it queerbaiting?) 

BL Actors and the Assumption of Queerness - outing actors, coming out, being out, more:  Is that BL actor actually queer?

So is it really fetishization? straight women loving bl 

Some BL fans are sasaengs, and it’s a problem in this fandom 

BLs That Highlight How Society Treats Queers

10 BLs That Are Honest to a Queer Experience 

(source)

[tricksterlatte]

I've always been fascinated by fandom history, and I know I'm not the only one. It's interesting to see how fans of pop culture can create a culture of their own, and in the modern age of social media and the internet in general, that culture is as widespread as ever. Unfortunately, that also means downsides are becoming bigger as this culture becomes widespread, and it's saddening to watch, maybe even concerning.

I don't discuss these things to be preachy, especially considering how I've fallen into several of these pitfalls before, and have perpetuated some of this behavior in the past. To say otherwise would make me a hypocrite and a liar, and I firmly believe this goes for most people in any fandom. I was just thinking about this recently, and how a lot of the biggest stressors in what should be our stress relief really can be pinned mostly into a few central talking points, which I would love to discuss to know if I'm not just going crazy here

The concept of Big Name Fan has evolved into a position of authority on fandom, which does not fall to anyone regarding subjectivity. No one in a fandom is an authority except the creators themselves, who have every right to stay away from the fandoms they have birthed.

Popularity in general being conflated to intellectual authority as well, especially on websites with public stats, particularly following counts. The algorithm is no benevolent god, but people will sometimes see someone with 30k followers and think they are correct on a minor non-issue that has spiraled into discourse, especially when compared to someone with 30 followers. This also is just...a bummer when fanon evolves into perceived canon, and newcomers to the fandom can't post even innocuous meta or headcanons without it being perceived as morally/intellectually incorrect.

Monetization of fanworks, but especially zines, have led to a hypercompetitive atmosphere that only escalates the bitterness and resentment. This is not a universal problem, but many zines across all fandoms habitually accept the same artists and writers, or diminish the value of fanfic due to the limitations of physical printing. The application process has devolved into such a disheartening debacle for a majority of people I see, and the way it is often framed as "your work just wasn't good enough" when it's really about what the mods deem mass marketable will destroy just about anyone's self-esteem after repetitive rejections, and will give some frequent zine runners a false sense of final say over the community (not usually, but it can happen).

The level of distrust for anyone new attempting to start a fan project is just so depressing nowadays (and this one we sadly can blame on a few people by name, but the ones who have sent this issue spiraling still don't care and that just sucks. I feel horrible for everyone who has been tricked).

Somehow comment and anonymous asks have gone backwards from "don't feed the trolls" to "suck it up, at least you're getting comments." I have seen some of these comments people have been told to suck up. It's not okay in general. It's particularly gross when it's an anonymous hate message unrelated to the fanworks themselves, perhaps born out of resentment or bearing an ulterior motive. And some will even attack and defame character due to identity. It's not subtle. It's not okay. People should absolutely be dunked on for this, and I gotta say I'm sick of unsolicited concrit being enforced as positive either. If they didn't ask, don't give it. There's a reason a lot of fic writers some people adore suddenly go ghost, and they can't even talk about it.

Don't like, don't read has been discarded in favor of don't like, tell others don't read and also don't write. Transformative works don't have to fit into a canon or even in character mold. That's why they're transformative! It's a different type of artistic expression. If you don't like it, chances are good it simply wasn't meant for you. It's not bad. Don't shame others, god especially not for non-issues such as a t/b preference or a different gender hc, preferred haircuts, types of animal you imagine them as in another lifetime, I could list literally anything here and I bet there has been a fandom fight over it.

Exclusive yet publicly advertised community Discords that will bar you from invite if you're not one of the cool kids. I have unfortunately fallen into this trap before, and refuse to ever enable or endorse that behavior ever again. This isn't about friend groups either, it's about fandom-dedicated servers that flaunt themselves as a VIP club instead of what they are: a friend group. I also don't even know how to broach the subject of private accounts that turn into fandom tea accounts with dozens if not hundreds of followers, only for people to be angry if someone isn't exactly okay with horrific stuff being said in general, let alone about their mutuals or friends.

I know none of this will likely ever change, and tbh i'm so tired of it all, but...does anyone else know what I mean? I'm stressed out whenever I try to enjoy myself, because popularity and a strange business mindset is steadily taking over fandom spaces. I'm not saying people should stop trying to make stuff that sells, or that people universally do any of this, but fandom is evolving into a thing I'm not sure is good. idk anymore

[lonelyroommp3]

the only thing i’ll say on the YA/kidlit discourse is that i do think there Are demographics of people that are basically only catered to (commonly) in YA. like i’m a trans girl and i actually don’t like YA basically at all, but it legitimately is hard to find other books like detransition baby or manhunt (already two completely different genres) that feature openly transfeminine characters in interesting stories. like i said i pretty much avoid YA like the plague unless i’ve had a specific recommendation so this really isn’t me being like “ummm but the only good books for queer people are teenybopper books” but i am legitimately sympathetic to other trans girls struggling to break into a market of books that barely ever acknowledge us beyond being a weird sex thing or a joke. the market is dire rn. btw do you have any recs

also just additionally for context: to clarify i am not talking about “representation” which is something i care very little about, but i do think it’s yknow nice to read books that factor transness & transition (totally unavoidable parts of my life) into their worlds and stories, or at least stories written by people who Dont Hate Me etc

i honestly can't say i have any recs because with the exception of a few frenzied months here and there i have, generally speaking, been in a reading slump since about the age of eighteen so i just have not read enough as of late to even begin to build up any sort of rec list. but what i will say is pretty similar to the post i already made which is - in most cases things are out there if you take the time to look. that is not meant to diminish the comparative lack of books by & about & for trans girls and women or express a lack of sympathy for your plight, and it sucks that whatever options i give you will not give anywhere near the same volume of results as they would if i was telling you how to search for books about straight cis women falling in love with hockey players or whatever (fr, i think everybody deserves to have a shitty hockey romance that represents them. this is what progress is really about), and you will probably have to search for longer to find something you really like or connect with, which objectively is a crap situation and gives you added work you didn't ask for.

with that said: one good place to start is lgbt specific bookshops - i'm uk and specifically london based so of course my frame of reference is going to be gay's the word, which i believe delivers at least within the uk and also has the option to filter search results specifically by identity (it's not perfect - there looks to be just one "trans" result so you'll have to actually manually dig to find books specifically focused on trans women). but you're always going to find books there that don't make it into the lgbt+ fiction sections at other bookshops bc, yknow, specifically queer bookshops have the space to specialise and go into much more depth. there's also the chance that if you contact these shops directly (i know gay's the word has a contact/enquiry form that you could probably use even if you're not uk based) the people working there will be happy to give you more specific recommendations

additionally, it is easy to shit on booktok, but i do think once you filter your way past the hundreds of identical accounts all reccing the same 3 romance novels it's honestly really democratised the book rec game, both in terms of reader recommendations and, as i said in my post (albeit in a snarky way that does not really do justice to the range of material of all levels of quality being plugged on social media nowadays), indie authors being able to plug their own material. i literally cannot even download tiktok on my phone bc it does some insane cocomelon shit to the adhd part of my brain, but i'm sure by searching general hashtags related to trans lit, transfem authors, etc you should be able to find accounts or at least one off videos dedicated to those specific recs (and that goes for, honestly, any category of identity be it gender, sexuality, race, ethnicity, disability, etc etc etc). plus, yknow, it's all about The Algorithm, so engaging with content made by transfem authors or writers otherwise including trans women positively in their stories (or content about those works) is just going to boost those stories to more potential readers and show authors, publishers, bookshops etc that there is a keen market for good stories about trans women

basically all that was a very roundabout way of saying like. 100% it's shit and annoying that as soon as you're looking for books about any marginalised groups you end up having to do increasingly elaborate google-fu just to find something halfway decent to read, while some other people can just walk into a chain bookshop and immediately find 50 books For And About Them on the very first table. but at the same time "having to do slightly more work to find these books because they're not in the immediate mainstream" is not the same as those books not existing, especially when we are in the goodreads booktok international delivery at the click of a mouse era, and so i tend to be wary of subscribing to any train of thought that mistakes the former for the latter

[utilitycaster]

I’m I the only one who finds it alarming that most of this fandom who ship Imogen and Laudna (especially on twitter) don’t realize the unhealthyness thats going on in their relationship? They literally see two women to are affectionate with each other and say “ENDGAME!” “GIRLFRIENDS!” “MARRIED!” “KISS KISS KISS!” Then they focus on quotes that are kinda alarming, and Imogen’s Jealousy is pretty fucking Alarming! Saying that they are in love and just haven’t realized it yet. (Don’t get me started on that one blog on here counting down the days “till imodna realizes their in love.” I find it so fucking annoying.) Loving someone and being IN love with someone is two different things. Also another thing! I HATE THAT PEOPLE CALL THEM LESBIANS! THE BOTH HAVE EXPRESSED FEELINGS FOR MALE PERSENTING PEOPLE! I dread the day when the campaign ends and they don’t end up together or during the campaign fall IN love with someone that’s not each other. Especially if it’s a male persenting person, because the Laura and Marisha will be harassed and the shippers will yell Queerbait, also the men hating/haters will be in full force. 

Hi anon,

I agree with most of this; I'm answering under a cut in the hopes that people who will be upset by an answer will be able to avoid it, without me having to explicitly discourse tag it and in doing so throw it to people who troll that tag to get mad at things. Also this is SUPER long and covers a lot of the thoughts I've had percolating on the CR fandom/shipping culture in general.

I think I and a lot of people who primarily deal in meta/analysis in this fandom have been inching ever closer to a lot of the points you've made here, and I am generally very willing to be the one who snaps and says "yeah has anyone noticed the emperor has literally no clothes on like what the fuck".

Let's start with the end and work backwards: It's happened before, it will happen again if Laura and Marisha's characters do not get together, and it's irritating, but like, I will take a good story and the consequences of a shitty segment of the fandom rather than the path of least resistance every time. I almost said something to this effect on the positive vibes ask last night, but like...there will always be people who are hateful and stupid on the internet, so you may as well stand in your own truth rather than fear their consequences. (Not that I don't respect the choice to quietly avoid harassment; I am the way I am because I know at this point I can take a pretty hard hit and shut it down, but that has not always been the case.) Anyway, people called an actual canon ship between lesbian characters queerbaiting last campaign, so it's not like those accusations hold any weight or need to be taken seriously; outside of their tiny circle, everyone thinks those people are idiots.

I do, as a bi woman, hate the tendency among hardcore shippers to erase bisexuality. They do it because a bi character's competing ships cannot be as easily dismissed as 'obviously can't happen, they're gay or lesbian', and they don't care how biphobic they look doing it. You are absolutely correct: Imogen and Laudna have both indicated interest in men or masc nb people. (Others have also pointed out that people tend to exclusively use he/him pronouns about Ashton when they are being critical of them, so they don't care how transphobic they look doing it either, apparently; also I don't think Ashton identifies as a he/they lesbian but there are in fact people who do identify as such so like...if your goal is to eliminate Ashton/Laudna as an option by saying Laudna is a lesbian, against all evidence to the contrary, you also need to make a number of presumptions about Ashton's sexuality and gender identity as well.)

This brings me to a tricky section about fandom in general but I think it's worth saying. In the real world, homophobia and transphobia are very real. They negatively impact our lives in heartbreaking and deadly ways. It is still the norm in most US media for the bulk of relationships shown to be between a cis man and a cis woman, and for protagonists to be cis and straight (note: also often able-bodied, male, white, etc but the focus of this discussion is queerness so I'm not covering all axes of oppression). However, in many fandom spaces, queer characters and ships are the fan favorites. Tumblr's userbase does skew heavily queer, and additionally, tends to skew towards women. In other words, a lot of things that are very true in real life do not hold in fandom spaces.

Which is to say: we're in a situation where an F/F ship is the massive juggernaut for the fandom right now. It does not mean that lesbians (or bi women who enter into relationships with other women) are not oppressed in the real world; it does mean that within the highly specific space of the Critical Role fandom, people are more likely to be in favor of this ship than not. It also means that a lot of the people who aren't into it are not homophobes, but are queer people - often even wlw - who are saying "I would like F/F ships! I would like them to actually be good." Like, to me, the only difference between Imogen and Laudna and every M/F canon relationship on network TV that's made me go "you're telling me they should be together, but I don't see it" is that they're both women (and I would bet a large sum that for a lot of people, this isn't about the dynamic, but purely about the gender of the people involved, ie, if Imogen were a man played by one of the men in the cast people wouldn't ship it, where as I personally can comfortably say I'd ship any of the canon ships from past campaigns regardless of character gender. This also admits that biological essentialism is fake and that Exandria is pretty gender equalthough, which some people don't want to do.)

Part of why I've been so frustrated is that, at least from my perspective, the overwhelming majority of hate and harassment I've seen within the fandom in Campaign 3 - and in Campaign 2 - has been from people who have shipped Marisha and Laura's characters. There has, in fact, been pretty considerable hate as well as measured criticism levied towards M/F ships (we're seeing some with Ashton/Laudna here, but both Fjord/Jester and Caleb/Jester, the latter of which I actively dislike and have openly criticized, received pretty vehement hate last campaign and most of it came from people who shipped Jester with Beau) and M/M ships (less harassment per se but people who shipped Caleb with Jester said some truly awful things about Caleb/Essek; also while I have not, you know, harassed people, I have said essentially the same things about how Taliesin and Liam's characters are shipped every campaign despite often having little connection as I have about Marisha and Laura's. I just don't talk about it as much because while I think and have said that Ashton/Orym is basically nothing - and that Widomauk, which most people vaguely classify as M/M, and for that matter, Percy/Vax, all are basically nothing - no one who ships those has called me a cunt or reblogged my posts in an abusive manner or called me out for the grave sin of preferring canon to fanon, so I respect the ship and let ship of it all.) For that matter, the bulk of hate towards Beauyasha came from people who shipped Beau and Jester. Like...I am confident there are people who dislike this ship specifically because it's between two women, and they are homophobic, but that is not the quarter where I think most of the criticism on Tumblr or Twitter is coming from.

So let's get to the last point. Why do people ship two women simply because they're standing next to each other? Why do they ignore countless red flags - and I am specifically talking about treating Imogen and Laudna's relationship as healthy and loving; not about shipping it in general. I cannot stress enough that if you treat Imogen/Laudna as some kind of toxic Briarwoods situation and are into that, I support that entirely.

There are a few reasons. First and foremost, I think a lot of people project onto characters rather than letting the characters provide them with differing perspectives. I find this deeply sad. It's not that you can't draw parallels between your own life and that of fictional characters or see yourself in them - you're supposed to! But it says something depressing about your empathy if your qualifications for which characters speak to you are only those who match your demographics. Like, I've said before, but my favorite characters from past campaigns are Vex and Fjord, and they have a lot in common! If you relate to one based on their themes of Who You Are In The Dark and the mask you present to the world over a face you don't particularly like, you will probably relate to the other! But also...I am a cis bi woman, I am not a person of color as both those characters are often considered coded to be (though am an ethnic minority), nor did I personally experience extensive emotional abuse and poverty as a child. I think there's value in wanting to see people like you! But also...representation is not just "I want to see people like me"; it's also "I want to humanize people who are not like me". If you cannot relate to someone simply because they don't match your gender or sexuality, then that's a really shallow and cold way to interact with the world. And, specifically in relation to queerness within Critical Role: this is a world that has consistently been depicted as not having homophobia or transphobia. I understand wanting to explore these themes and seeing characters who have experienced them, but like...this is not the media that will reasonably have a one-to-one portrayal of homophobia or transphobia, and you often will need to bend over backwards and project a lot of stuff that simply isn't in the canon to read that into them because the worldbuilding simply doesn't support it. And, to be clear, you can do that; but at that point you're applying a lens that only you can obtain, so you shouldn't be surprised if few people come along with you. (I also think it's kind of dumb to watch a show with 5 cis men on it, four of whom are married to women, and be mad that the story has men in it and that those men sometimes are attracted to women; unpacking this would easily double the length of this already incredibly long post though.)

So: this sets a stage for people coming into the show saying "who looks like me, or can I make to look like me" rather than engaging with what's actually going on. Part of why I've been hesitant on Imogen and Laudna the whole time, though started out much more open to it, is in fact that it was heavily shipped from quite literally the moment that Laura and Marisha were indicated to be playing two women who knew each other from before. We knew nothing about their dynamic other than "existing friendship". So I think a lot of people put the cart before the horse and started shipping, and I do think - and I could be entirely wrong - a lot of them, deep down in their hearts, know that they are twisting their interpretations to match an idea of these two characters that has increasingly been proven not to be true onscreen. Like, I think a lot of people kind of realize that Imogen is putting Laudna in a horrible position here; I think a lot of people realize that their so-called 'unconditional' love that transcends words means there's no room to resolve or even express conflict. Perhaps they don't, but like, I'd like to give people the benefit of the doubt. It's just...I think that because this ship is so all-consuming within the fandom, and because so many people have staked their identities within the fandom on it, they don't know how to leave it and are scared of retaliation if they do.

This is backed up by the slow shift I've described - Imodna started out with "they're already girlfriends" or "they're already in love but just haven't said it" or "what could ever happen other than they become ever closer and eventually kiss" (as witnessed by these questions) to "they realized they were in love during the campaign" to "Imogen is in love with Laudna but Laudna isn't aware" to "god remember how they used to talk, I'd give anything for it" to "I guess a QPR is okay" (which is itself bizarre, like, the issues I see in their relationship are still just as much issues in a nonsexual partnership as a sexual one; honestly, it's not a healthy friendship though it is an interesting one and the problem's I have are not going to be fixed by kissing.) Like, it's not the normal evolution of feelings one might have about a ship as the show goes on and more information is revealed, or rather, it's a ship that's becoming less and less confident as time goes on which is the opposite of how canon ships tend to go. (Which, I need to stress, does not discount that it could not be canon; it's just that I think it would require a pretty profound shakeup and conflict to do so). The signs and signals are becoming more and more tenuous and the shippers keep lowering and lowering the bar.

Since I've already brought up past campaigns and ships, let's do it again for the sake of illustration; this feels like how people who shipped Caleb and Jester went from ENDGAME to "Caleb is pushing away Jester to protect her" to "I think Laura is biting her lip when she's looking at Liam! This is a SIGN" even in episodes where Jester was like, actively making out with Fjord, to, and I am not making this up, posting pictures of the CR shop showing Laura in Caleb merch as evidence. Or how the bulk of Vex/Keyleth shipping in TLOVM rested on a scene in the trailer where Keyleth was staring dreamily and drunkenly into space while Vex was across the table only for the show to reveal Keyleth was staring at Vax. Like, all shipping does require a certain degree of cherrypicking, but there is a point where you are focused only on subtext and never text, and while that was how one had to interact with queer stories in the past, it's ridiculous to be doing it on a show where Marisha has openly RP-ed Beau eating Yasha out. Like, if they wanted to show two women being romantically involved, they will. (There's been a lot of Xena comparisons thrown around, and like...not that Xena isn't an important part of the history of depicting F/F relationships in media, but it is also a syndicated show from the 90s and couldn't show an explicitly lesbian relationship, and Critical Role very much can and has.)

I do think there are a subset of people who don't realize how unhealthy this is. Like...this is a whole psychological thing that I am unequipped to unpack, but I do think there are people for whatever reasons genuinely do believe that love means never having to say you're sorry. I am hoping this is because of youth and inexperience, because being able to communicate and advocate for yourself is a crucial part of relationships, as is the ability to express and resolve conflict. As you've noticed, the people who ship this have all said "well, obviously, Imogen won't betray Laudna" - but we don't know that. Honestly I think it could go either way. But they have to make that assumption to keep shipping it, because if Imogen might betray Laudna, then that does mean that there would have been more meaning and value in Laudna speaking up and that conversation was deeply flawed.

I also think some of this comes from unconditional love being an unreasonable expectation foisted upon us all at large. There are always conditions, or rather, you might always in some way love someone, but there are conditions under which you'd leave or boundaries you will draw. You can love someone who (for example) is dealing with an addiction but still refuse to let them drive while intoxicated or steal your stuff to pay for drugs. You can love someone who cheats on you but still want to end that relationship. I mean, while fear, self-doubt, and resources/logistics are all factors in people leaving abusive relationships, it's also true that a lot of people have some affection for the good times and that is a factor as well. Love is not a simple on/off switch. You can feel multiple things at once - honestly, that's what Ashton basically says this past episode, that they both love and hate the party! I think Imogen and Laudna do genuinely love each other, though I don't interpret it as romantic; I just also think that there's a lot of stuff they don't like about each other but are unable to express, and which will only become more and more of a threat to a potential romantic (or queerplatonic) relationship if left to fester unresolve. And, to be honest, I suspect real-world homophobia and fandom purity issues are part of why people are so unwilling to discuss why Imogen and Laudna's relationship is unhealthy; because it means admitting that queer relationships can have most of the same problems as straight ones, and possibly admitting that you still find an unhealthy relationship interesting and want to see it played out.

[beevean]

Especially the justifications ranging from "Sonic is neurodivergent-coded" to "Sonic is canonically neurodivergent" in Prime grind my gears. I'm certain many of the same people are gushing about how awesome it is that Sonic Prime is CaNoN tO tHe GaMeS... as in, the games where Sonic:

knew that simply defeating and sealing away Chaos again would do NOTHING except make its hurt and anger only worse.

gave Blaze a kind and supportive pep talk, acknowledging what she had been through because of her pyrokinesis and duties as Sol Emerald Guardian and offering her his friendship with a reminder she can count on the people she's got to know during her adventure.

defeated Merlina but expressed sympathy with her hurt about her world ending while sharing his own philosophy of needing to live life to the fullest, without any call-outs about her attacking him earlier, boasts about defeating her, or scoldings about her negative view on it all.

Immediately came rushing back from Cannon's Core in the ARK even though he was seconds away from foiling the entirety of Eggman's plan with the fake Emerald because Eggman and Tails informed him Amy was in danger.

And those are only the examples I know for certain on the top of my head, without even touching upon everything that happens in games like Sonic Battle and Sonic Forces. It's not even that Prime!Sonic is particularly nasty or rude, he clearly adores his friends, but he can't read a room to save his life and he is legitimately just stupid. Which is clearly done because it can be used to write jokes, but he is stupid, in a way that a properly-written game!Sonic could not be even if he tried. And you mean to tell me the Sonic from the above examples is the occasionally-insensitive constantly-dumb hyperactive chatterbox that Prime presents him as? Please.

(I'm sorry, I figure you might have gotten tired of Prime discourse now, but in general the whole He's Totes Neurodivergent fandom perception annoy me, because they use that card to completely disregard any (in my opinion valid) counterarguments about any poor portrayal...)

Oh wait I forgot to add: the reason I came up with those examples is apparently because people think that Sonic (aka Prime!Sonic) has low empathy. Stolen from some probably-shady and possibly-unreliable site on the internet whose definition of empathy does otherwise seem to check out: "In general, empathy is the ability to understand or sense another person’s perspective, feelings, needs, or intentions, even when you don’t share the same circumstances. It can sometimes involve acting on that understanding, including offering help." And I ask, in what world does Sonic from the games lack empathy?????? He's literally the most empathic pep-talk-giving perspective-seeing help-providing understanding sweetheart on the entire planet with that definition!

I remember reading a post that proposed that Tails had high empathy and Sonic had low empathy, before Prime was a thing. And I had your identical "bruh???????" reaction. Sonic has low empathy? Literally where. Show me proof that any version of Sonic struggles to empathize with people. My man is actually pretty good at understanding others, as you accurately pointed out.

Anyway, I don't have ADHD and even I am getting annoyed at how it's been reduced to "hehe i'm soooooo silly and quirky and kiddy 🤪". If it's not Sonic, then it's characters like Tangle who has pretty much become a womanchild and fans defend her because she's "neurodivergent-coded".

Also, speaking of differences between Prime and Canon Sonic, while the latter was also relatively slow to the uptake to accept that he was not meeting his actual friends in Secret Rings and Black Knight, it was still not as ridiculous as the former, who apparently could not recognize that he was in the third different AU in a row and still was all "oh Tails am I glad to see you!".

And apparently Apple Metal was built to be like Sonic but way more obnoxious about it, which prompts Sonic to say "if I'm half as annoying as you I need to change". Which. *sigh*

and i'm pretty sure there was a boom character like that, but boom apparently sucks ass now while prime is the best western show ever. okay

[ca-suffit]

First off - I really appreciate what you do here, I'm new to fandom spaces and the things you post about have crystalized what bothered me in this fandom, which has made the experience of sifting through it much easier, knowing why some people's takes make me wildly uncomfortable and why I wasn't convinced by the big blogs big loud voices yelling at me what to think and how. There's an objectivity to your words that takes me out of the shipping war, book nostalgia, societal issue-blind mindset a lot of loud people here flaunt like some intellectual commentary, when it's not.

That aside, I know you mostly comment on fandom racism, but I've been confused for some time with how this fandom deals with transgender AUs. I know that a while back there was a lot of heated discourse and some big blogs saying that Louis shouldn't be feminized, dismissing critique of patriarchy which the show makes so clear, and misinterpreting Lestat's place in the familial structure etc. Now, I'm not talking about that, I wholeheartedly agree with Louis being a feminine (and maternal) figure in regards to gender roles, and with his general demeanor, as well. Though he is more subdued in that sense and gets misinterpreted, due to people used to something more outright like Lestat's flamboyancy.

And I know a lot of fic was written at first to spite the people who were uncomfortable with the notion of a clearly feminized Louis, which brought out MPreg, A/B/O, breeding kink, crossdressing, GNC, and even trans (FTM or MTF) iterations. I've read some great work involving most of those (though I've never wanted to check out any applying to Lestat, since most of them seem ridiculous) which was careful, mindful and made sure to respectfully use real life sensitive tropes, such as transness.

But I've also seen really crude, insensitive, and outright unconvincing characterization of an FTM Louis. Empowerment through writing is great, and I know transmasc writers can vent through the process, but some work has had such blatant fetishization of trans men, and it gets lumped in with praise along other, more serious and deserving fics. Not every FTM Louis is empowering, and I just can't get behind people writing a trans man that's turned on by being called a wife, having his genitalia spoken about in an outright feminized and crude way, AND ENJOYING THE THOUGHT OF GETTING PREGNANT.

Now, I know that various people's dysphoria allows for different things, but the amount of trans men that actually have a single positive thought about pregnancy, their female genitalia being spoken about, or having womanly roles forced upon them in relationships, is so low that writing about it without consideration becomes quite offensive. If you want a mindless smut one-shot of a pregnant or willing to be Louis, go for him as a cis gay man with a breeding kink, for A/B/O, bogus science, or honestly, fucking anything besides him being an FTM.

And I say this especially because I know it's not just trans men reading those crude and smutty iterations, it's also, and mostly, people who have hurt me and many other transmasc individuals with their disgusting chaser behaviour. Talking about it brings up many hurtful memories and I won't go farther for risk of becoming too subjective and affected, but I think trans AUs really shouldn't be treated with as much ease as they are.

first, thank u for the compliments!! I don't rly hear nice things here so it's appreciated when anyone takes time to give feedback and let me know this is doing something.

second, trans stuff is still under the racial umbrella as there's a lot of trans people of color here who get ignored in favor of white fandom bullshit all the time.

idk all the ins and outs of this but my main question reading this was.....are the fics being written by trans ppl or no? Cuz it's one thing if it's trans ppl expressing a spectrum of an identity and another if it's a non trans person using an identity to meet some kind of plot end and not considering the real implications of that. It sounds like it's the latter but I got a little confused.

[myopicry]

Ty again for responding to my question! This ask is less of a question and more of a mini ramble/vent of my own, idk if you'll find this interesting, pls don't feel obliged to answer this, if not I'll be back with more interesting stuff sooner or later. (disclaimer: im unsure of what terminology to use when) I don't consider myself as a radfem or GC, but in my past month or so of consistent lurking i'd say i've adopted some of the perspectives and opinions, whilst still being supportive of trans ppl and wanting feminism to result in equality between the sexes (i personally believe that this equality and the liberation of women aren't mutually exclusive but that's a different can of worms, also not saying that radfems and GCs can't also be those things). So it kind of shocks me when I at times return to more trans positive/inclusive (?) spaces and see how they talk about TERFs or just radfems in general. I'm skipping the part about how I don't see their arguments in the same light anymore, and more focusing on how they talk about those groups (while most of the time seemingly not having properly looked into them). Like, I have my fair share of criticisms for those 2 communities as an outsider looking in, but they're a lot more constructive and not as "automatic, knee-jerk reaction"-ish than what I've seen from TRAs(?). Furthermore, although I don't think radfems and GCs are necessarily always the nicest to trans ppl or even other qu**r groups, I've seen them being willing to engage in civil debates, clarifying that they don't wish harm on the opposite side/expressing some sympathy to at least a part of the opposite side, denouncing the issues within their own communities, encouraging each other to participate in more "tangible" activism (ex: volunteering at women's shelters), etc more commonly and on a more regular basis than TRAs (?) (not sure what terminology to use lol sorry).

What's even more surprising is that I feel like I can have a civil conversation with most, if not all, of my trans friends without it absolutely obliterating our friendship and mutual respect for each other and even ending up agreeing on some things, so it's odd to see such hostility towards even just *engaging with an opposing belief* and *asking more direct questions* online. Maybe it's more prevalent there than irl? Anyway, if you read this entire thing, thanks and I hope you found it entertaining at the very least x) 'till next time! ~🪼

hey I would be a hypocrite to not enjoy listening to other people ramble considering how much of it I do myself lmao

but also, I genuinely really enjoyed reading this! I totally agree with the sentiment. I did find it super interesting myself in my lurking journeys when the characterization of "terfs" was always built around word of mouth information, the worst faith interpretations of any radfem point, and constant reiteration of how they're irredeemable traditionalists who were completely not worth listening to and directly supporting hategroups (which. is pretty hyperbolic especially if you're addressing radblr lmao).

where as radfems always characterized "tras" directly with screenshots, literally listening to them and displaying them as they are. and yeah, even in radfem spaces where there can be varying disagreements, there is still some level of discussion or debate where you can trace back the discourse and see why they disagree. then, in contrast, when I lurk through broader lgbtq discourse,it's always full of calling people whatever-phobic and just never trying to understand the actual reasons behind any arguments. or it's people over-intellectualizing to the point of nonsense, then still turning around and straw-manning their opponent regardless.

and honestly, it probably is an online thing. the demographic of people online in these communities are just getting younger and everyone is getting more personal too. your identity and digital reputation are now "at stake" in the spaces you frequent, and all your friendships have become your "mutuals" who are an extension of your online personhood and credibility, so you MUST curate your space and your relationships to be unproblematic and aligned with popular opinion as to not be ostracized from these spaces and make yourself look bad.

In real life, people strive to care less what others think of them, and thus can entertain disagreement and nuance while not feeling threatened. online, people are quite literally incentivized to care what others think of them because what's the point of going online otherwise (yknow, if you disregard learning more about different perspectives and using the breadth of the world wide web to learn new things and deepen your understanding). ok, before I start ranting like a boomer comic strip on the "evils of social media" and how the youth are using the internet badly, I'll cut myself off :p

really really well written insights though anon! literally it is always a great time for me when I log on to this website and see you hanging out in the inbox! thank you, and I hope to see you soon !! ヾ(＾∇＾)

[thebisexualdogdad]

I was wondering if you could tell me about how you found out you are trans? Is just in having doubts about my gender identity recently but I’m not sure because I don’t have strong gender dysphoria. Also my therapist told me is probably just a phase but idk.

If you don’t want to or are uncomfortable just ignore this don’t worry.

Subconsciously I always knew but it just wasn't something I thought about because no one ever told me I could be. Like as a kindergartener my parents got called into parent teacher conferences many times because my teacher was "concerned" that I only wore boys clothes, hated playing dolls and house with the other girls and instead played with the dinosaurs and pokemon with the boys and generally I just fit in better with the boys etc. I always hated the idea of being a girl and wished i had been born a boy and once puberty hit I became super uncomfortable with my body and wore a jacket every single day to cover my chest from about 6th to 12th grade even in California heatwaves. Adults always told me that it was a phase, I was a tomboy and I'd grow out of it so I just ignored everything I was feeling.

I figured out i was queer first. My first celebrity crush at 5 years old was Lucy Liu in Charlie's angels and I had a total obsession with Jennifer Love Hewitt in ghost whisperer in middle school but again I just didn't think about it until freshman year of high school when the og pretty little liars came out and i saw Emily's story and went oh shit I like girls and don't really like guys so i must be gay so for many years i identified as a gay woman. Then at 19 I randomly watched a trans male youtubers coming out story and again it just clicked, I went Oh shit I'm a guy. At 21 after I started watching shadowhunters and saw Alec who i immediately fell in love with I realized I was actually bisexual and my dislike for men during my teenage years was really me experiencing severe gender envy and being jealous that i didnt look like them and wasnt percieved as a man like them.

Also at 21 I came out to two of my closest friends and one of them who i had been friends with since the first grade response was literally "Yeah I know" and I asked him how he knew and he said "whenever we played video games as kids you always picked the male avatars and most of the time you named them Dylan so your new name also makes sense."

So here's the thing, I know there's a lot of discourse about "people who don't experience much dysphoria can't be trans" but the only person who can truly know your identity is you. Everyone has a different relationship with thier body and just because you may not experience dysphoria the same way someone else does doesn't mean you aren't trans/non binary. If you feel in your heart like you are the opposite gender of which you were born, you're trans (or non binary if you feel like you are neither or genderfluid if you feel like various genders).

It's also perfectly okay for your identity to change. You can go some period of time thinking you are one gender and then later on go well actually I think I'm this gender or this gender non conforming identity now. Just like sexuality, gender is a spectrum and it's complex but it's your identity and you are allowed to identify and express yourself however you want.

[frogeyedape]

So, wow on the AFAB identifying as transfem discourse.

It's ironic how one of the objectors is like "yes I'm transfem but not a woman" is freaking out over a not-woman AFAB person using transfem too. Like...how is saying "I'm not a woman and I'm transfem" in any way saying "transfem means not fully a woman"? Transfem is inclusive of any trans people who self-identify as transfem, whether they're a transwoman who is a binary woman or a transwoman who is fluidly a nonbinary woman and nonbinary man or a transman who transes masculinity by making it more feminine or whatever

Being trans isn't about *what* your AGAB was. It's about whether your AGAB *changed*

The "trans" part's etymology: "word-forming element meaning "across, beyond, through, on the other side of; go beyond," from Latin trans (prep.) "across, over, beyond," perhaps originally present participle of a verb *trare-, meaning "to cross," from PIE *tra-, variant of root *tere- (2) "cross over, pass through, overcome" " from:

So say I'm AFAB. Assigned "girl." And what does girl mean? "A girl/woman can do/be anything" was a popular encouraging slogan in my youth, but it battled against all the misogyny of the time that put "girl" and "woman" in very tidy, small boxes. If I was assigned small-box-girl at birth and later stepped out of that box, across its boundary, might I not be transing my gender just a little? Still, I wasn't identifying as trans when I was a girl. I didn't know the word. [Tldr: i wasn't trans then cuz I didn't identify as trans then. Merely stepping outside of the small defining boxes of gender does not necessarily a trans person make.]

I was later Assigned Tomboy (hello secret 3rd cis gender where they still consider you a girl but like bad at being a girl)--Assigned Tomboy After Birth, shall we say ATAB? Does tomboy have one singular definition that encompasses all tomboys' experiences while excluding every non-tomboys' experiences? Is there a neat and tidy tomboy box that so many tomboys fall out of? I didn't fit in that concept either. [Tldr: my assigned gender changed before I even really started to grapple with what my actual gender identity was. Ain't that fucked? And no, I wasn't trans yet then, either]

I grew up, tried to step into the shoes of Woman, the adult version of my young Girl and Tomboy selves, and found Woman to be null and void. That's not me. And yet to be called Girl still when I am an adult is infuriating. I am not a child. Do not infantilize me. I am not now a girl. I am also not a woman. [Tldr: I was an AFAB person self identifying as not a woman. Still hadn't quite cottoned on to being trans, but it was definitely a part of the journey]

I rejected womanhood, studied gender and sex and bimodal distributions and decided fuck the binary and yeah fuck bimodal too, there's more than 2 ends the genders are spread between. [Tldr: I was officially calling myself trans. Just trans.]

My gender is largely null (agender), but also fluid (it irks me when I try on transfem clothing that my friends who think of me as not-a-woman see as kowtowing to cis feminity when I'm wearing a dress not as a cis woman but as a trans person who is acting unusually transfem--or, it's not unusual, I like pretty dresses, they just don't see it as much so they freak out. Just. I'm wearing the damn dress in a trans way, ok). I'm generally more masc leaning--butchy vibes without actually being butch. But I'm transfem sometimes, or just a little bit all the time, too. How is it transmisogyny to recognize the transness of my expressed femininity?

But I honestly think that's not the point of the objection. The objection is (using quotes here to represent speech, not actual direct quotes) "AFAB person calling themself transfem is transmisogyny because this not-woman is saying transfem [meaning transwoman] means 'not fully a woman.'" But. Transfem=/=transwoman. But the transfem [meaning transwoman] interpretation is like, beneath the conscious level of awareness, because it only applies to transfem *sometimes,* and the objector just...isn't seeing that. And is understandably upset at a perceived injustice. But like. It's pretty clear that there's a logical disconnect. And I think it's the implicit distinct definitions of transfem[feminine in a trans way but not necessarily a woman vs transfem[meaning transwoman] at work.

And I'd talk to the person directly but they've been receiving both well meaning and distinctly unfriendly feedback already and I don't want to add to the dogpile. I think we basically agree, even if the terminology is getting in the way: transfem belongs to trans people identifying as transfem, regardless of their current gender or AGAB. Trans that femininity! Yes!

[abyssal-werewolf]

I understand your frustration, but I can't help but feel like - and I don't mean this in a judgy way, just as neutral feedback - you're a bit too salty about this?? I'm not trying to start a fight or sound snappy or whatever, but it's just...

okay, let's start here: a huge part of the community are children, yes. that means most of the actual lifestyle-ish advice will be targeted towards folk still in school or just barely out of it. a 16 year old high schooler can't really give you advice on how to deal with your job (sorry, this sentence sounds kinda snappy but I can't seem to word it any better). I'm 22 and currently in university, living on my own with my boyfriend, we have to pay bills, manage the apartment, etc - advice for how to deal with shifts in school isn't helpful for me either and yeah, that kinda sucks, but those kids CAN'T give me advice on anything else lmao. also, from the POV of a teenager, anyone over Idk 25 (or even younger maybe) probably seems like a Real Adult and basically ancient. So naturally, those "old otherkin" are treated as community elders in a way, which makes sense because you very very rarely find nonhumans over 30 here on tumblr. doesn't mean they don't exist obviously, but they're probably on other websites and in forums. what I mean is (again, in a neutral way): if you feel weird in a community this young, maybe tumblr just isn't the right place for you. it's natural for generations to kind of, chill in seperate places because The Vibes of older and younger people are just different from each other. So, they will each find their own places and if you feel like the community here is too young for you, that's okay! but that doesn't mean the community is bad or "internet poisoned" - it's just not what you vibe with. what I'm mainly trying to say, is: I understand your disappointment, I really do, but instead of dwelling on this and seemingly forcing yourself to try and participate in a community that doesn't feel good to you, maybe you should try to focus your energy on finding places that DO feel nice and fitting.

on the definition of otherhearted: to my knowledge, the distinction is pretty clear. otherkin = identify as vs. otherhearted = identify with. I AM a werewolf but I see myself IN ravens. and about the whole "everyone had to figure it out for themselves" - yeah. that's the thing with identity after all. definitions and words can help to find ways to express what you feel, but you have to find out what you feel on your own. that does suck sometimes, true, but you saying you could learn more about yourself from a meet-up with other nonhumans than you could from reading essays just points this out. essays can give you words and insight in other's experiences but only you and your feelings can tell you what you are any which words might describe you. the same goes for coping mechanisms, what might work for others might not work for you. you can look for helpful tips online, but in the end you have to figure out how to deal with your urges at your workplace. I'm sorry, maybe I'm reading too much into your post, but that part of it just seems like you expect others to give you a definite guide on how to deal with your specific situation...

Lastly, I have to admit that I maybe took your post a tiny bit personal?? as in, I didn't feel attacked (that would be fucking pathetic anyway lmao) but I felt called to comment on it in a hopefully constructive way. Idk, something just doesn't sit entirely right with me when you call a panel someone put work into "useless garbage", just because it wasn't helpful to you personally. Also, I agree that a lot of discourse is pointless, but certainly not all of it - and you don't have to participate in it of course, but you just seem a little judgy towards people who do (and basically same thing with the comment on the "you're valid"-stuff, a huge chunk of it is annoying and useless, true, but just generally calling it stupid is... meh)

anyway, Idk if I will regret my long-ass comment or not, but to end this: I don't want to start a fight, nor do I have anything against you personally (I don't know you after all lol), nor am I angry or whatever. I just wanted to offer you a sort of different perspective ok things and also just, feedback. hopefully no bad blood after this and good day/night from your probably not-so-local werewolf ^^

Sorry for being so inactive lately... been busy irl, and have been meaning to post here more often, but also, like... I always feel a bit shy approaching the 'kin communities on here because it kind of feels like everyone is sort of... "internet poisoned"? For lack of a possibly-better word. A lot of folks here on tumblr in the 'kin and alterhuman communities are children, and a lot of more prominent community figures treated like "elders" are only about my age or younger, and it feels really strange, to be honest. There's a lot of discussion of feelings and terminology, but very little "lifestyle"? It's like there's a universal expectation for everyone to just figure everything out on their own; you get some definitions here and there yeah, but the amount of variance says much more loudly "just figure out what it all means on your own, pal". ex. Not only can no one actually explain what "otherhearted" actually means sans relation to otherkin, but it feels like I never see anyone talk about dealing with what one could call "kin feels" in the workplace, when unable to acquire your habitat, etc... Othercon is online-only, and while I'm pretty sure I'd be unable to attend an in-person event, part of me has a hard time feeling like everyone is really taking it all seriously and is really unafraid of being "cringe" when obviously it's so much easier to act like you're so confident online. I kinda feel like meeting some wolfkin stereotypes in a park for snacks and doing a group howl would do more for me than years of reading essays on tumblr ever has.

I dunno, I tried watching a recording of an Othercon panel I felt would be relevant and useful to me once, and was floored at just how... utterly useless it was. Despite its promising title, it was just shallow "you're valid" garbage and internet discourse... Makes me feel severely alienated, to be honest.

[voidstain]

Proper Pinned Post

Anonymous blog that started as a writing blog. Now it's a bit of a mishmash. Self expression, often unedited and done on mobile. Maybe discourse, maybe rambly posts, who really knows.

Quick rundown: Pro-ship, pro-endogenic systems, pro-kink, pro-sex work, pro being radically inclusive generally. Disabled (physically and mentally, though the distinction is not one we feel needs to be made), queer, tired. 25+ body. We block liberally but do try to be understanding and own up to mistakes.

Feel free to block for any reason. We try to respect DNIs, if they exist/are accessible for us, but don't really think stating one ourselves is worth it. If you want to interact, you will, a DNI isn't going to do much to stop people. If you don't want to interact because of our stances, you aren't going to anyway.

Info on us and what you may expect to find on this blog below the cut.

We are a plural system that prefers using headmate/fictive terms over parts/alters/introjects. Voices will not be given names, and are numbered in order of choosing to use this blog, not by how many are actually here.

Currently:

Voice 1 (They/It)

Voice 2 (She/Her)

Voice 3 (They/It)

Voice: undisclosed (could be anyone, or a mix! Not necessarily a voice given a number.)

Voice 4 (They/Them)

Voice 5 (He/Him, & any)

Topics you may find:

Queer themes

Neurodiverse themes (Autism, ADHD, plurality, trauma, & more)

Cripplepunk/Madpunk/Punk in general

The woes of chronic pain

Lots of identity stuff

Self harm/Suicide/Death

Religious trauma

Unreality/Things of an otherworldly nature as if literal and as if really had happened

Dealing with reality, usually with hopepunk, but like, yikes

Fandomish stuff, maybe. Headmates/fictives being vague probably.

& more!

Any identifying info is not happening. If you think you know us no you don't. NDA this shit. Redirect your brain cells away from suspicion. If you browse thats fine but leave no trace, nature trail visit this place. Coincidences are just that, not even correlation. Or else.

(We'd probably just be embarrassed about being Known(tm) and kinda upset about some stuff being seen thats private but pretend I have a gun for the meme)

Thanks for coming to our ted talk, except psych, bonus ted talk of thoughts will be randomly added below

Anti-psychiatry. Yes we have a psychologist headmate, yes we are in therapy with a therapist who knows about us. Tear down the medical field and rebuild it brick by fucking brick without any brick not being seen to by someone it impacts. No one should be forced to have medical choices and bodily autonomy stripped like that.

As such, obviously, pro self-dx, because dx labels are like. a horrible mess. Half of it is different brands of slightly varied symptoms lining stuff up to see which eye glass you see through best at the eye doctor. Whatever's comfy yall. It's like trauma all the way down anyway. Yes for like, almost everything. Even the biological stuff is exacerbated by trauma. Life in our society is inherently traumatizing for 99.9% of people.

So like. Drugs. Relatedly. Addiction is a societal problem. Free supervised substance use sites is a public health issue. Stop jailing people (disproportionately BIPOC who are often then exploited as prison labor) for drugs. Stop villainizing them. Addicts should be supported, and you know what? If someone wants to do drugs sometimes, let em. They aren't a crime that forever marrs your immortal soul or some shit.

Opiod crisis. Pain relief seeking behavior being classified as drug seeking is costing lives, just give them the prescription. Also on this topic free healthcare. Abortion is an inherent right to bodily autonomy. Let someone trans their gender as much as they please so long as consent is informed. Also palliative care over life-prolonging care any day if the person wishes. Also physician's assisted suicide.

For the love of the vast void or whatever you believe in stop letting cops kill people. Stop letting cops. That's it end of sentence. Redirect funds to better serve the community. Cheer when the station goes up in flames. Also just because you're European doesn't mean you're free of the racism of the US.

More to be added when we feel like it. Also posts may get made abt these separately

[changlixx]

Hi! Sorry for spamming you, I just found your blog and I love it! <3 It's kinda refreshing seeing someone who's not afraid to state that they believe Changlix are in a romantic relationship - and not, as is often the case, backpedal immediately afterwards saying it's only *a joke* (queer people... we exist outside of shipping). My question, and I hope it hasn't been asked already, is: if you had to pinpoint a moment, when do you think they got together? Because Felix has always been pretty forward about what he likes, but I think Changbin had to come to terms with a few things before getting to where he is now. They did have a different upbringing, after all.

omg, don't worry about spamming my notifs, i love that shit ❤️

i don't think i deserve praise for openly saying i believe that felix and changbin are actually in a relationship though, although it's totally possible to find my main blog through this one, tumblr is fairly anonymous and i don't think my life would be ruined if someone found my real life identity and accused me of being problematic. i'd be alright. also i think there is some measure of difference between being loud about this on this rinkydink website and being loud about it on twitter where there is an actual possibility of felix or changbin seeing it and being uncomfortable with it in case i'm wrong and they are just close friends. if they expressed discomfort with it i wouldn't be doing it, but since from how i perceive it they don't mind the shipping at all, i think i'm fine indulging in theories or expressing what i'm observing in this clandestine social media community.

and i completely agree with your point that it's kind of bizarre when people insist that all shipping has to be only for fun with a million disclaimers that it's obviously not real and of course they're 100% heterosexual and getting pussy left and right. i see people doing that a lot and i'm not saying it always comes from a place of homophobia (although it sure does in some cases), i think it's people overcorrecting themselves. i think they're afraid of being delusional or "fetishizing" (that term is a whole different conversation) or that what they're doing is harmful. but they still can't help intuitively shipping idols/celebrities and so act like it's all just a big joke to them and of course, there's no way it's actually real. they think they're being self-aware and realistic.

but like you said, queer people are real and i think it would be ludicrous to assume that there are no queer people in the idol industry. an industry btw that i think would be especially attractive to queer people in the same way that all creative and performing arts are, like musical theater, the fashion industry and such. i think it's pretty likely that there's a higher percentage of queer people in the idol world than in the general public. and they LIVE TOGETHER for god's sake. they're a bunch of insanely attractive people who live together and aren't allowed to date, of course stuff will happen between group members. if i was in a girl group there's no way i wouldn't be banging one of my co-workers lmao.

now this was a lot of introspection about the shipping discourse in kpop when your actual question was when i think changlix started dating. and i gotta say, i'm not sure i can give you a great answer to that. i haven't been here from debut, i've only been a stay for about a year or a few months more than that. so i didn't see the actual progression of their relationship, i try to watch as much of their back catalogue as i can but there's just so. much. content. i tried systematically watching everything but i'm still not past 2018 in terms of their old vlive content.

like you, i think that they're together now and have been for all of 2021, and that they definitely weren't together back at the end of 2018. between that there is about a two year window in which a lot of stuff could have happened. i think there has probably been something (maybe unspoken) between them ever since they met, like sexual/romantic tension, but i agree that changbin probably needed time to come to terms with it, while felix was ready to go from day one. i imagine that must have caused some emotional turbulences. i don't even think there necessarily has to be a definitive point at which they got together. maybe there is, but maybe there was a back and forth or they just kinda grew into it. i'd say it's not unlikely that the point at which they decided okay we're officially in a relationship and we're not making a big secret out of it happened some time in 2020. since, like i said, 좋으니까 felt like a coming out to me and that happened early 2021.

hhh. i know that's not a satisfying answer but that's all i can give you timelinewise. but i'd be really interested to know if you have any thoughts on this question? is there something you observed that makes you feel like things shifted between them? i'd love to know your thoughts.

[trans-clown-catgirl]

Prismasexual/Prismaromantic/Prismatic identity; elaboration below readmore. (Click for better quality!! Tumblr preview destroys image quality!) PROSHIP RADFEM ETC DNI

Alright, so! There's a problem many people like me are faced with sooner or later. Between discourse, different definitions, online arguments, answers depending on who you ask, where you ask them, etc etc; picking a label for your way of liking multiple genders becomes a bit hard. Bi, pan, omnisexual, among many others; the answers tend to feel uncertain and a bit hazy. Sometimes, you really don't wanna pick one either due to fear of saying you're something you're not, feeling like none of these quite fit you right, or just not wanting to choose at all for one reason or another; As such, I decided to start brainstorming ideas for a label that could solve these issues; as well as one I'd feel comfortable using. Prismasexual is an orientation which covers attraction to multiple genders; and nothing else. No specifics, it can be any preference, any pick of genders, anything; it's an umbrella term for anyone attracted to more than one gender. It doesn't matter how said attraction manifests itself or how it's expressed, if it's there, then Prismasexual fits the bill. Similar to Sapphic in a way; an identity that covers attraction to women and fem people in general, regardless of if it's just women, fem people, or anyone else. (Note; the original intent was not to make it resemble the Sapphic identity, it's just a comparison I felt could clear up the use of Prismatic.) Alternate names are Prismaromantic and Prismatic! For example, you could say ''I'm Prismatic'' to refer to your orientation, or you could go with Prismaromantic if you're asexual! This flag is free to use and edit! Credit for it upon use is appreciated, though! What's also appreciated is constructive criticism for the design, meanings, and overall look of the flag! If I can improve it, I totally will!

Note that I am no graphic designer; this is just my best attempt at making something I think is distinct enough and looks nice, without being too similar to other flags.

And as a finishing touch, here's the flag in a circle, because I think it looks really really nice that way