#also don't harass or be a dick to people who do or don't ship it

[synthshenanigans]

there’s one on here currently and they’re bringing back up old controversy (jashshipping)

Yeaa I saw that. They also seem to post a bunch of CJ related things, so I might make the daily photos one since there isn't one for just CJ screenshots/photos

[n3felibata]

I made a post on Reddit titled "Hot take but I feel like many if not most Stolitz antis are either homophobic or just hypocrites" and I even had to clarify at the end that not all Stolitz antis are like that. Cue the replies harassing me, taking it as a personal attack on them and making baseless accusations about me. One of them even sarcastically said "Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong and bigoted" as a way to make fun of me. I never said anything remotely similar to that. I don't think they bothered to actually read past the title where I explained that Stolas and Blitzø meeting as children is compared to a bad fanfic when that never gets said about straight couples in media who met as children and that people who hate Stolitz for what it is now only tolerated it when it was just a running gag, as if they can't stand it when gay relationships are being taken seriously. I also mentioned that even non-homophobic Stolitz antis complain about how toxic it is and then turn around to ship Blitzker. (Blitzø x Striker)

I had a similar experience. It's so stupid because like, some of them aren't even subtle about it. Same for chaggie antis. I remember seeing a post talking about how much Charlie doesn't get enough dick, so she's unsatisfied and needs Alastor. Like... I'm sorry, what?

A lot of the arguments stolitz antis are literally inherently bigoted. Like how they want Stolas to be paired with Stella instead even though he's gay. And STILL hating him for "cheating" after The Circus even though he's a gay man being forced to marry an abusive woman? Idk, that's... a red flag 💀 The same people saying stolitz is one sided were the same ones saying that Stolas and Stella were in love not to long ago... sounds like heteronormativity...

And a lot of them are Stella defenders? Sorry that I came to the conclusion that the people doing mental gymnastics defending the cishet abuser calling the gay male abuse victim the abuser may be homophobic 😭

Like, it's not that different from female characters who get hate while the same people shitting on her praise fictional men who are worse or do the same shit. There are clear double standards here. These people turn around and praise cishet media with very similar writing, characters and tropes as Helluva Boss. And not only that, but it's not even just about their relationship specifically. Like, I have a theory that the whole controversy about Stolas being an "abusive" father is because of the stereotype that queer people can't be good parents. And the whole "child and parent have conflict but make up in the end" trope happens in fiction all time (example: Danny Tanner, Jeff Morales, Doofenshmirtz, ect.) Weird how it only became abuse and neglect with Stolas and Via.

Some people are blantly saying they wanted stolitz to "stay a joke", and it feels obvious to me that a lot of them just like queer characters who are queer in a goofy "dark humor" way and not an actual character with queer struggles and/or queer relationships.

People who say "but I disagree and I'm not homophobic!" Be expecting you to give them a pat on the back or something, I swear 💀 Like... good for you? Thanks for not being a bigot? Do you want a reward?

What I don't think people understand is that if they're not homophobic, then the post isn't about them. The fact that they're getting so defensive about posts directed at no one in particular is just weird because it looks worse than it would be if they just kept scrolling. Now it just kind of seems like Freudian Slip.

No one was looking at you until you said something

Of course they're not all the same, but I've seen people straight up call them the f slur

Sorry that happened to you. Just remember that Reddit is INFAMOUS for being toxic, so don't take what people on that app have to say to heart. Like, it's up there with Twitter and Tumblr...

And wouldn't you know it? Those are the 3 sites I see the most Stolas and Blitz hate.

Interesting

[galstelperion]

hey, alma. i have been following you for a while and i like many of your takes, you always seem level-headed in this fandom, but i think you missed this time around and that post wasn't it. i'm not writing you this to make you feel bad! please, believe me, my intent is not to bring you down or anything of this sort. but the user you were talking about is getting witch hunted by celeb0rn fans, and she made that post because she has been harassed by haladriel-antis and celeb0rn fans for months and months, simply for her interpretations of the show. she never attacked anyone personally, she never rebloged anyone's takes to dismiss them. she just expressed her dislike of celeb0rn fans' own witch hunts and their own insistence that they get galadriel the right way. so it was quite disappointing to see haladriel shipper such as yourself add fuel to the fire that is eating up our fandom right now. turning on each other for celeb0rn is a bit of a waste, isn't it? and we know that the majority of celeb0rn stans aren't genuinely his stans, they are just antis.

i think the fandom is getting more and more toxic, not sure what it is about. im not writing you this so that you answer to this ask, i know you probably weren't coming from a bad place, but i just think this time your post had consequences that you did not intend to happen.

Hello anon, since you seem to be at least cordial, I will respond to this ask and it will be the last time I address this situation:

"we know that the majority of celeb0rn stans aren't genuinely his stans, they are just antis."

This is the root of the problem here. I am saying this in the kindest way possible. Yes, you are allowed to dislike a character. You are even allowed to bash said character in your own spaces. A line is crossed when you make untrue statements like this. The attitude that the majority of "Celeborn stans" who also happen to enjoy Haladriel are just antis is inaccurate and has made a lot of people incredibly uncomfortable. It has made me uncomfortable as someone who is friends with many multishippers who like and explore dynamics with all of these characters involved.

As I said in my original post, I do not ascribe to this all or nothing mentality to shipping or fandom in general. The idea that there is only one right way to like and consume this ship is hurtful and makes many people feel ostracized and unwelcome in this space. I say this as someone who doesn't even care for Celeborn as a character at all and have actively shit talked him around mutuals who agree with me. But I also say this as someone who has been friends with the most incredible Haladriels for 2+ years at this point, Haladriels who have written 100k+ word fanfictions, Haladriels who have dissected and analyzed lore back to front since the early 2000s, who are also interested in exploring Galadriel's dynamic with Celeborn! *gasp* Don't put me in shackles and drag me to the town square but someone who likes a character you don't isn't a crime! It doesn't make them any less of a Haladriel. It doesn't make them "antis in disguise"

This sort of mindset has been permeating the tag for many months now. I never felt inclined to really say anything about it until these broad generalizations were being made by people who I've personally never even seen before here. Like my good friend @nocaptainonthisship has said, "I've been in this fandom since its inception two years ago" isn't a dick measuring contest. It's saying I've been here. I've seen it.

I don't know a whole lot about this account that you're referring to in the ask. I don't even know anything about these people supposedly harassing them either. I don't condone that. I have refrained from @'ing them at all either here or in my original post so as to not to contribute to pile-ons if that is indeed happening. I did block them about a week ago after continuously seeing these actively hostile and confrontational takes about who can and can't be considered a real Haladriel based on their character preferences. Feel free to block me if that is the approach to fandom you want to have. It will certainly never be mine.

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Poor rendition of queer characters in HH and HB

Here I am again talking about queer representation in Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, this time just more generally. Because it's always a little weird to me when people claim HH/HB to have good queer representation, when in actuality most of the queer characters are either just blatant stereotypes or get mishandled somehow. And with Helluva Boss recently winning the Queertys - Web series reward I think that this is probably a pretty good time to acknowledge that kind of stuff (as people have done before).

TW: Sexual assault, R@pe (when referring to the actions of characters)

Blitzø (Pansexual): is very sexual and seen on screen multiple times either having sex or just having had sex. Pretty much fits the general stereotype of queer men always being sexual and also the stereotype of pansexuals just sleeping with everybody. Like, he literally screwed the mutual Ex of his coworkers even though he knew how much that guy hurt them.

Stolas (Gay): also mostly sexual (from how he was introduced) and he is in a pretty terrible "relationship" with Blitzø, which includes coercion, SA, Power dynamics and fetishization. Another very sex-driven queer man. Also just great proof for the people assuming that queer relationships are inherently predatory, unhealthy and never work out.

Moxxie (Bisexual): is often forced into a very feminine role because even in relationships with women, queer men always have to be pointed out to be feminine and putting a guy in a dress is funny I guess.

Fizzarolli & Asmodeus (Queer): they're actually better than a lot of the other characters here but there is still some of that uneven power dynamic going on with them and there are obvious issues with their relationship. Overall they aren't too bad though. They didn't get that much sexual focus and what they got is kinda warranted since Ozzie is the Lust demon. But there is that one scene with Fizz stepping out of his car with Dildo confetti canons (I think) and that was sorta weird, since in an episode before that they presented Crimson as being homophobic and stereotypical for assuming queer men are all obsessed with dicks. Which is just interesting because thats most of the queer men in Vivzepops stories.

Chaz (Queer): just a sexually abusive asshole because we definitely needed more predatory queer men in this show.

Sally May (Trans mtf): basically the single recognized trans character in both shows and she only had one line. After that they made fan merch for her which consisted of her in a bikini with her bulge being drawn pretty visibly (multiple times). Of course there's nothing wrong with Trans people who don't have surgery but it's just a tiny bit weird to me that fanservice merchandise is what she got reduced to, when something like that wasn't even the joke of the only line she had in the show and because she hasn't recieved any kind of focus after that.

Angel Dust (Gay): now there is a lot of stuff that could be said about Angel. On one hand he is another very sexual gay man whose screentime often just consists of sex jokes and references. On the other hand that's a big point for his character. How he tries to act confident in his sexuality when in reality it's the main source of his problems. Though he does often harass other men in the show and that's just so unnecessary. Talking about Angel mostly leads into discussing if he is good representation for SA victims or not, which is something I don't want to talk about that much because I feel like it's not my place to judge that as someone who never has experienced SA. I'm gonna say that I do find Viv's treatment of him outside of the show insensitive (with the pro-shipping, diminishing Valentino as an Abuser and general sexualization of the characters) but as far as the portrayal of him in the show goes I've heard different opinions and you should read the discussion's of actual r@pe survivors about this topic if you want to know about more about it.

Husk (Queer): I don't have anything to say about Husk. He is a very refreshing queer man in these show's and there is nothing bad about him I could think of right now.

Valentino (Queer): for him I mostly want to talk about how he is treated outside of the show which doesn't sit right with me. He is a villian in HH so it's understandable that he is gonna do effed up stuff. I also like that the show tries to make a point about how men get sexually assaulted too (wether they succeeded in that inside the show I'm not gonna judge too hard like I said). But there are a lot of people who not only sexualize him, but also his actions and his relationship to Angel and from what I know Viv never really spoke out against that. She actually interacts with people who do that stuff and I it's just kinda gross.

Vox (Queer): I also don't have a lot to say about him. He and Val are a couple so he is dating a r@pist but he is also a villain so you can't really expect more from him. Especially since he would still be interacting with a r@pist even if they weren't dating.

Alastor (Aromantic, Asexual): is obviously not interested in relationships or sex but his identity is pretty much ignored by a huge amount of the fandom. Vivzepop never say's anything about people blatantly invalidating him like that. It seems to me like she doesn't care about characters who can't be involved in shipping but still wanted to have more diversity in her show so she just called him AroAce. In Hazbin Hotel he isn't bad representation though. His sexuality is never the focus but thats fine, it's mostly just the treatment he gets outside of HH which I don't like.

Charlie (Bisexual): doesn't have a lot to her sexuality. This is something I talked about pretty lengthy in my other post, specifically about the lack of Sapphic content in both shows, so I won't go into too much detail here. Her relationship with Vaggie would probably be the best in both shows if it wasn't for the fact that they both never get the real spotlight as a couple. And there is that thing in Vivzepops stories where the women are pretty much sexless without men and that's obviously something that is generally an issue when talking about the lack of Sapphic representation (which is also a topic heavily tied to sexism). Charlie's portrayal isn't necessarily stereotypical but that's just because there is nothing to her identity in the show.

Vaggie (Lesbian): like I said I already talked about the Chaggie relationship so now I wanna focus on something I didn't even mention in that post. Her name literally being Vagina and that's apparently funny because she is a Lesbian so she obviously likes Vagina. That's just incredibly stereotypical and also excludes Trans Lesbians and Asexual Lesbians who don't want sex. The whole joke was that Adam named her that because he is obsessed with sex and he's a jerk. But her name was always Vagina even in the pilot (from what I know Adam wasn't conceived then and neither was the idea that Vaggie even is a former exterminator).

That's all the queer characters I could think of. I hope I didn't miss any.

I thought about including Millie here too. But she was also already included in my other discussion post and I still don't know if she is canonically Bisexual of if that is just a headcannon so I didn't put her here.

I'm just gonna say that i don't have a problem with queer men being sexual (or any queer person in that regard). But it's pretty much every one of her queer male characters. This is especially bad when a lot of the relationships are toxic as well.

I just think too many characters fit stereotypes and to me that isn't good queer representation. If you like the depiction of queer characters in HH or HB that's good for you and you don't have to agree with me. But you also can't really deny a lot of this stuff and you can't expect others to just be fine with bland, hurtful and sometimes even toxic representation like there is in these shows.

[utilitycaster]

do you really think the reason Imogen doesnt get as much meta as Caleb (who got every little detail discussed with thousands of notes!) is because people are afraid of a reaction, when its so obviously sexism?

The same reason she doesn't get the exact number of notes as Caleb? No. There's multiple reasons. I'm sure some is misogyny. Some is probably audience size for the respective campaigns, and some is simply accumulation over time - a post about Caleb from 2019 has had 5 years to gather notes.

But also. Are you fucking stupid. You literally showed up because of my tags to be kind of a dick in my inbox. I and multiple people who committed the grave sin of *checks notes* interacting with me were sent hate messages for hours on a Saturday night because I hinted in the tags that I kind of liked Fearne and Ashton as a ship while not being terribly into Imogen and Laudna, and some absolutely deranged loser decided this was an appropriate response. I was called out by someone who had made a blog specifically to block me when I responded to a reblog from someone else on a post I had made stating that Gelvaan was almost certainly not homophobic in canon and that treating Imogen's psychic powers as a metaphor for queerness has a lot of really unfortunate implications. And this hasn't even touched on that one person whose entire raison d'etre appears to be harassing every single person who doesn't think Imogen, Laudna, and their relationship is perfect; and who specifically made multiple alts to harass me. Like, the "It's Obviously Misogyny" people are genuinely putting more effort into being a dick to me than in writing meta about Imogen. You might be one of them.

I talk to many of my mutuals, some of whom really like Imogen, and yes, people do decide "you know, this could be interpreted by someone as too critical, and I don't feel like dealing with the heat" and keep that meta to the DMs or don't share it at all.

You know that post that Matt liked on Twitter that people have been, let's not mince words, jacking themselves off about ever since? If you actually try to say something with substance and evidence about how Imogen has Liliana's fear (the fear that meant that when Imogen begged her mother to leave the Vanguard, Liliana turned her own daughter down, claiming to need to stay with other children) or Delilah's love (which made her cruel, ruthless, and ultimately all-but doomed her) or Ludinus's desire for power (led him to commit endless atrocities) but resists these things in her desire to be a good person - and frankly, I think painting her with the same brush as Delilah or Ludinus isn't even true but I would love to dig into her similarities to Liliana - some asshole who smugly reblogs that post every time someone says "not to be controversial I think Imogen sometimes says things that could maybe be hurtful to other people I think" will throw a full temper tantrum and might send them an incoherent anon calling them a little hypocrite.

It's also fascinating because a lot of the tantrum-havers who will defend Imogen of even the most anodyne "perhaps this is not the most positive trait" and who will cite harassment Marisha received 7 years ago as a reason to not breathe a word of criticism about Laudna - and many of these people joined the fandom about 2 years ago if not sooner - will do this at the very people who have been supporting Keyleth since Campaign 1 was still airing. I mean, seniority doesn't mean anything but if you're lecturing people about something you weren't there for and they were? Clown behavior. Oh and a lot of those people doing the lecturing? Don't really like Keyleth very much, because she does things like "be angry" and "support Orym" and "have a measured viewpoint that doesn't match theirs" and "pretty clearly, along with Allura, who they also barely ever talk about, is directing Bells Hells along a specific path of that pesky moon plot because contrary to a weirdly widespread belief this is the moon plot campaign and not the baking cookies in a cottage campaign."

I mean, half these people forget about Fearne much of the time. The only NPCs I see many of them even talk about are the Vanguard generals and occasionally Abbadina when she's convenient for an argument. Not a damn word for Orlana or Birdie or Dancer or Weva or Rashinna, and they mostly treated Deanna, Prism, and Deni$e as nothing more than implements to shove Imogen and Laudna together but man do they have mountains to say about Bor'Dor. Hell, go to the blog of someone who whines about the way people treat Imogen and look through their meta, if they have it, and the vast majority of the time it's about Ashton and Orym and Ludinus and then they spend the rest of the time complaining about how The Big Mean Fandom is So Mean to Girls but they sure don't have much to say either because turns out if you can't say anything even remotely critical of a female character, it's really hard to write anything, and that's assuming they actually care about writing about female characters instead of just being an asshole, which as stated above is, in my mind, in doubt.

If you have ever spent a single second harassing actual living women online because you didn't like their thoughts on a pretend woman you are, at least in this specific scenario, easily the shittier person. Personally I am confident in my feminist bona fides through, you know, real world activism and how I interact with and support women and feminist causes socially, professionally, financially, and politically in my actual life, but yeah even I sometimes say "you know, I have thoughts about this thing regarding Imogen...but I've had a rough week and I don't feel like having one of the fandom tar pits on my ass" so I'll send my thoughts to a few friends and then idk, write about something else. And I'm pretty thick-skinned (this is the other problem with this strategy; you filter out the more measured and kind and sensitive people first and you're left only with people like me). A lot of people have flat-out given up writing about Imogen (or Laudna, much of the time) because they don't feel like dealing with backlash over some really mild statements. And because you send kind of dickish anons I suspect that it's more likely that you might be part of the problem than part of the solution. So no, it's not the only reason, but it's absolutely a significant one. Congratulations. You played yourself.

[tcoaal]

what does proship mean? /gen

does it mean you like bad ships like pedophilia or abuse or is it were you accept ships and don't harass over them no matter who gross they are?

you know what i'm fairly confidant you're trying to bait me but instead of posting a meme response like i was going to out of annoyance i'm going to try my best to answer this while ignoring your judgmental tone and holier-than-thou attitude with your dick in your hand, and if you have genuine questions about what being proship means i highly encourage you to leave it at the door when asking these questions because you're kind of being a condescending prick :)

being proship/profiction is the belief that what somebody ships and what fictional content they consume does not reflect who they are as a person and their real life morals, it is to accept that they like something -including what you are deriding as bad ships and gross things- without judging them. for example: i am -what a shock given my url!- a very publicly coffin of andy and leyley blog that ships gravecest which even beyond family includes two extremely toxic co-dependent people. this does not reflect on who i am as a person or anything i believe in. i just like a ship.

so yes. i do like some icky bad ships like you're afraid of (although to be honest i think like, coffincest is like the only incest ship i care about at all and also belos/luz from the owl house is like my only really big dead dove ship outside of that) and are trying to talk down to me about it! but even before then, hell even when i was an anti i was always put off guard by how hostile people around me were.

being proship does not mean you have to ship those things, actually. in fact: there's a lot of proshippers who are actively uncomfortable with things like ships with pedophilia, abuse, incest, etc! they simply understand it doesn't reflect on that person. does that make sense? i'm one of those icky gross people you clearly hate: but even if i wasn't, in those days, i still detested the cruelty exhibited by those around me that pretended to care about what was good for society.

does that clear it up? if you have more questions, either have the balls to come off anon or leave your attitude at the door, ty <3

[tyanis]

You also don't speak for us when you said Cleons used to harass Eagleones and we shouldnt forget. Like??? Who are you. Idgaf abt them. They're as bad as aeons. Fuck off with your let's turn the other cheek bullshit. Why do we have to "have a good name" and be kind and represent Cleon well LMAO theyre not real and idk these people!!!! Life IS too short for this foolishness. Stop trying to suck other ships dick, you never stand up for us when we're harassed every day. You only speak to call us out.

"How dare you try to keep us civil! Rarrr! I'm angry and want to bully people! Wahhhh!"

Anon, I know you have a lot of BIG FEELINGS about this but it's not my job to police other shipping communities. I speak up here because it's the community I'm a part of. If you never clean your house and a visitor says your house stinks, you don't beat them with a bat and call them a slur. You clean your fucking house.

...The "house" being the community you're in for those that need it spelled out. Which this anon probably does.

Look, if people are harassing you... have you tried just... blocking them? You know you can do that, right? Or do you want the fight and then get angry when you can't rile up others on your side to defend your stupid ass?

I've been a Cleon shipper for 25 years and we have totally been bullies in the past. It wasn't a good look and I don't want us to go down that path again.

But if THIS makes you so damn upset... then I can't wait for you to have a REAL problem.

Seriously, this is little toddler shit. And yet you seem grown up enough to write... weird. Maybe you got some stuff to work on?

Love you! <3

[damnfandomproblems]

766348704849559552

I'm a prime example of this.

A bored anti accused me of transphobia, transmisogyny, misogyny, all sorts of pleasantries, just because I headcanon a character who is *very* commonly interpreted as cishet as... cishet. And because I headcanon that male character, being cishet, as not being turned on by someone masculine presenting, or someone with a dick. He is only attracted to feminine features. That's it. That's the offense. Ironically, they slapped me with a transphobia accusation even though I strived to include both cis and trans people, like me, in who he's attracted to by deliberately using language like "masculine/feminine presenting" and just keeping things simple. But let's be real, that was never going to be enough for this person, or people like them.

Despite the stupidity of their accusations, a good 50+ equally ignorant people, most of whom were barely out of their teens (if that), insta-shared the post and spread it without even bothering to fact check. I also got some bizarre insults in my inbox. Not one person came up to me and asked about anything (neither did the original anti), and the vitriol of it all really messed me up for months, gave me imposter syndrome, and made me wonder if I was a horrible person, or somehow blind to some kind of phobic language I was using, and it got so bad that I went to the hospital. I simply couldn't switch off the paranoia that these people were right somehow. I was already dealing with poor mental health which was the cherry on top of the cake.

When the harassment first started, I went through the post and, like anyone would recommend because it's common sense, I blocked every single person who had spread it. When I went back to block more people, one of the people I'd blocked had commented that I "already blocked them wow lol", and that it "must have been because they have a gay ship lol". Setting aside the "lols", which already shows they're not taking this stuff seriously... Jesus, Mary and Joseph, you'd think these numpties would at least have a *shred* of a clue and understand that I blocked them because they were harassing me for unsubstantiated claims, rather than the fact they had a gay ship, especially when one of my favorite ships is gay and I have dozens more where that came from. It's like they took the unsubstantiated claims and used it to build an entire new case with, when, hello, Occam's razor, anyone?

The whole thing made me out to be this massive bigot. Despite receiving reassurance from other mutuals and people I trusted, I spent a *lot* of time with intrusive thoughts telling me I was a bad person because of how bad the slander was; my brain just kept going, well, if it blew up this much, it must be you, not them. I kept trying to comfort myself but I didn't even believe my reassurances or others', despite rationalizing stuff over and over again. It took over a year to unpack all of it.

Compared to what I've seen other people go through, I got off *easy*. I didn't have other accounts tied to my main account. I never posted pictures of myself. I didn't use my real name or get doxxed. No, I just built up a rendition of a character for over ten years and had my credibility stolen in an instant. I suppose on the bright side, most people with a brain didn't participate and they still understand that I'm not a bad person. But there were a few people within that dogpile that I had seen plenty of times before, and I thought they were safe people. Now they think I'm a bigot and there's nothing I can do about that. I know their opinion isn't worth anything. They can't properly detect disinformation, they are reactive and bad at critical thinking. But it still hurts and it doesn't matter who they are because ultimately it still affected me profoundly for a year.

Moral of the story... Don't accuse people of stuff unless you know exactly what you're doing. Actually investigate, actually speak to them and others, and don't go out guns blazing with some kind of confrontational, stone-the-person, massive dogpile festival which, let's be honest, 99.9% of these people only participate in because they're bored and want to scratch an itch without any consideration for the consequences. Don't make people doubt their entire freaking existence and MO over stuff like this, it's beyond rank.

Posting as a response to a previous ask.

[bloogers-boogers]

Do you have any South Park hot takes/unpopular opinions? 👀

Both for the fandom and the show itself

Hmm... well I haven't like thought of it too much cause I don't like to get involved in the fandom itself when it comes to discourses! I suppose my unpopular opinion is that I truly don't take south park seriously! I see it as it is. Completely satire with the purpose of making jokes about real world problems and getting out some laughter from it. That's how I see the episodes with no shipping goggles until after when I can actually just enjoy the content people make out of it and go crazy with theories and hcs for fun and enjoyment jhshqhsjs

I also see it meanless to pin people down when it comes to fictional ships nothing justifies a person sending d3ath threats/harassment to a REAL person over something that ISN'T real. And I dislike how people disrespect others when it comes to them actually liking the show for what it is. Technically when fans take fanon as legit from canon! fans shitting on people who don't go by their fanon/ship over them going with canon.

The other day I was reading a post about fans shitting on cryle. Dude it's fictional they're not doing any harm whatsoever! Creek is canon shipping that specific ship is not gonna take that away just like it won't take away stendy for shipping style:)

Please, I just can't. I cannot comprehend when fans take fanon too seriously.

Also— when people make Kyle ultra feminized. I'm sorry for those who do and like, idc if you do but I just personally don't like it. Same with Tweek. I just keep my distance and mind my own business. There's no need to be disrespectful for those who see/take things very differently than you and that's okay as long as you don't cause any harm or force anyone with them:"D

All the kids are assholes. Actually the whole town is! Cartman is an ass, yes. His character is intended to be an antagonist but that doesn’t take away the other shit anyone else from the show has done:)

Butters is a dick! He ain't no pure uwu boy he has his moments and IS friends with Cartman even if some say he's a victim. Like, it's shown in the show when Butters can't take Cartman's shit anymore he stops playing around! (In his own way he gets back at Cartman. Like that video tape of him dancing with a cut out of Justin timberlake, taking his hotdog business away or dragging cartmans ass back to the bus refusing to let go of his hand.) And he also finds Cartman bigoted comments funny too.

Besides, Victor was not a creation by being abused from Cartman in PC. Butters created that person for himself as a copping machine from taking ALL of the boys shit (bullied from everyone) (he literally points out all the other main boys issues in that Hawaiian ep atleast Stan and Kyle. Not just Cartman.) and IS a victim from his parents. It was a choice Butters made for going the Victor route being influenced by the environment he had to endure.

Also Liane is a bad mother she is no sweet angel. She has been shown to be more stricter in recent seasons but that doesn’t erase the fact that she has done shit to Cartman just as much as he has done to her. Maybe even more:"D

People who want Cartman d3ad is like asking for Garrison, Randy (and anyone that goes against their fanon) gone. It takes the essence of the show entirely. Cartman is literally south park.

Besides, if Cartman isn't there who do you guys think would be pin as the new asshole in town? Everyone there is shitty, the possibility is endless:)))) (main three?? Stan, Kyle, Kenny:333)

I dislike the fatphobia in this fandom. No more take on this cause this is a sensitive subject I do not want to take part of!

Main boys ARE Cartman's friends. It's as obvious as day those three care in their own way. That one percent episode they literally went to ask the kids they thought were the cause of the fire to stop harassing their friend. People who don't care wouldn't even bother to intervene.

Liking a bad character doesn't make you a bad person! I personally like Cartman, he's my favorite. I can admit he has problems and is very problematic! And I would never follow by all the shit he says, realistically I would NOT be around a person like that. However the way he's written drove me to like him and the fact that he's just a fictional character~ also PC has proven that Cartman can change:)

Just a reminder that these are just my takes! No one has to follow them or am I attempting to shove my opinions onto anyone. And they're not always consistent. My views on things change a lot.

I love reading diffrent opinions on things, hc's, ships just as much as I like to read when it comes to character analysis, lore, theories. I'm opened to listen and take diverse opinions from the show/fandom.

This is fictional it's not real! So I would never take it to heart:) <3

Sorry this is mostly about the fandom I truly have nothing against the show unless being tired of the tegrity farm gag 😭🤣

Also my bad for the long rant malu (I did not intend for this to be long) 💀

[hello-nichya-here]

Let’s be real. The only reason toxic Zutarians and delusional Zukkas became so rampant is for the same reason.

Zutararians and Zukkas are two generations of the same issue.

Maiko is written so incoherently and Mai gets no development of her own. Zuko and her are a terrible match and treat each other poorly (I know the fandom can’t agree which one is at fault but I don’t think it matters).

Fans searching for a more satisfying conclusion of the fandom fav Zuko stumble into the waiting clutches of Zutarians or Zukkas who bombard them with their terrible takes, OOC writing, and admittedly beautiful fan art. Before you know it, they lose touch with actual canon.

This is all Bryke’s fault for writing Maiko terribly.

And yet people blame Zucest… nonsense!

Anon, I don't mean to be rude, but you're just wrong all around. Not only do I not think Maiko is terrible (might not be my OTP, but I am fond of it), but even if it WAS and fans had to rely on fanon for good romance, that does NOT explain or justify the way Zutarians and Zukkas not only act like their personal preference is objectively better than everyone else's but also actively lie to themselves and others about their ships totally being secretly canon but screwed over at the last second.

They do that for one reason alone: Entitlement. They're entitled, spoiled cry babies who screetch at anyone with a different preference because they take it as a personal attack.

Bryke writting Maiko any differently would not have made these people less insufferable. Hell, their ships hapenning in the exact way they wanted them to would also not do the trick, if anything it'd make them worse.

It doesn't matter what you think about Bryke as writers and people, or how you feel about the canon ships: The bad behavior of Zutara and Zukka fans is the responsibility of Zutara and Zukka fans, nobody else.

I don't like Legend Of Korra or the comics. Never sent a death threat to the people who made them. Never harassed fans of it or had them doxxed. I love Zucest to unhealthy degrees, but you won't see me claiming "There was totally a deleted scene of them kissing in the finale instead of fighting, but evil Bryke ruined it all, and if you don't believe my obvious bullshit I'll scream at you until I'm blue in the face!"

I LOATHE the ending of How I Met Your Mother with all my being, and resent the showrunners for being such dicks to fans and complaining we didn't praise their terrible writting. I would NEVER accuse them of abusing their authority over the actors and being predators just because I disagree with awful messages the finale sent - something zutarians do Kataang and Maiko fans ALL THE TIME.

It's really, really, really, really easy to not do that kind of stuff.

Be critical of Bryke and their writting, have whatever opinion you wanna have on Maiko, but let's not pretend writers/showrunners are to blame for FANS attacking people.

It'd be like going "Oh, this actress and her fans got death threats because audiences didn't like her character, clearly this is the writers fault for mishandling said character" NOPE, the blame of that kind of awful behavior ALWAYS lies solely with the people who choose to act like that.

[the-bi-space-ace]

I’ve been wanting to talk about something for a while and I’ve just never felt like I’ve had the right words but I’m going to give it a go now.

In the most caring and open hearted way possible I want to talk about ✨shipping✨so here it goes. This post will move around a lot so please stick with me. Clearly, there’s a world of nuance, and I won’t touch on every single corner of fandom shipping behavior because this post would be miles longer than it already is, but I’ll focus on the broader attitude towards shipping, queerness, and platonic relationships.

I’ve seen plenty of posts about how shipping is cheap. How it’s bad. How it’s ’always about the two men’. How it’s ’not canon so shut up’. How 'straight ships need more of the spotlight'. How ‘nothing’s ever platonic anymore’. Or, my least favorite ‘I don’t like the ship you ship so I think you’re evil, actually, and deserve to be harassed’.

Shipping is a fun part of fandom. As someone who is asexual (demi to be exact) I love a good intense relationship in any form it comes in. Platonic, romantic, sexual. Any of the above really is fun for me to read about and look at art of. I ship plenty of stuff but I also have plenty of platonic relationships that I give the same weight. If not more sometimes tbh. Every relationship I write is intense. It’s wrapped up in deep feelings of love and affection. It’s always going to be that way even if it’s not romantic.

Some people just really love romance and I’ll never ever knock that. Romance is beautiful. It’s lovely and deep and intense and gratifying. It’s a wonderful thing to write about. There’s nothing cheap about it. This demonizing of shipping is really just pushing people further away from a cohesive and accepting fandom space.

There’s been a shift where instead of people just having fun shipping they’ll try to belittle the popular ship, usually the queer ship, and it’s really not getting the message across that you want. What I think some people mean is ‘don’t erase or demonize this female character for your queer ship’ but sometimes what is said is ‘your queer ship isn’t canon you’re an idiot and you’ll never get what you want get over it dick head’. And yeah, there are plenty of people who do, in fact, demonize the female character to ‘justify’ their ship instead. And I think one of the primary problems here is this idea that you have to justify your ship. That it has to make sense. That one ship has to be horrible and toxic to make yours superior.

That isn’t the case.

The same goes for the ‘well my ship is canon so get over it that person will never be queer’. It’s just mean spirited and unnecessary. Sure, I may know a specific ship will never happen but I’m shipping it anyway. Because it’s fun! And I like it! And I'm queer as hell! Of course I want my ships to be queer. Claiming some kind of superiority because your ship is ‘canon’ is ridiculous. This is a dollhouse. We’re playing with dolls. Barbie can kiss whoever she wants because this is my dollhouse and you have yours. It’s all fine.

You can enjoy your ship and let people enjoy theirs and keep your mouth shut when someone ships something you don't like. It really is that simple. No, the straight ship is not toxic just because you don't like that ship and no the queer ship isn't cheap and awful just because it's queer and you don't ship it. It doesn't need to be some attack on you or your ship just because someone ships something else. They can simply ship other things. And we can all have fun, shipping multiple things. It doesn't have to be a contest. It shouldn't be.

I want to touch on platonic relationships for a bit because it’s a relevant topic while talking about shipping and being someone who writes a ton of Gen fic I want to discuss it in more depth.

There is a lack of acceptance of platonic relationships between characters. That or it’s usually belittled for the romance, pushed aside, devalued. And this does happen a lot. It’s hard, it sucks, and I struggle with that sometimes too. No, not everything is romantic, but that doesn’t mean it matters less. It's a sad thing to see and experience especially as someone who has had friendships that have fundamentally changed me as a person and I value those friendships so much it hurts. Friendship does not equal less than and sometimes it is treated that way.

However, I’ve seen this sentiment that you should blame shippers having their fun time and belittle them for shipping something that you might see as platonic. Because it is their fault for 'being sex obsessed' and 'making everything romantic'. And this just doesn’t sit right with me. Because there is literally no issue with either.

If your goal is to get people to care more about platonic relationships then shame is never going to be the answer. Shame does not work as a tactic. It just serves to belittle and hurt the other person. It can actually make them more resistant in the first place. Again, shame is not a productive tactic when trying to get someone to try something new. So much of this argument relies on shaming shippers, shaming queer shippers. It doesn't sit right with me. It never has. Shipping and liking sex are not shameful things. Shippers are not the enemy and they shouldn't be seen like that.

Teen Wolf comes to mind when thinking of this. Several long standing friendships that I’ve loved watching evolve exist in that show. They show genuine closeness and love and it’s platonic in the show between several main characters. Which is awesome. I love Lydia and Allison, best friends, perfect matches, support each other until the end and also Scott and Stiles childhood best friends with each other until the end and never wavering one bit. I love their commitment to each other. It’s beautiful. Seeing them commit to each other and never treat each other as less than their romantic counterparts in the show was excellent for my teenage brain. And, ya know what, it still is as an adult.

I also don’t think someone shipping a pair like Scott and Stiles ever cheapened my love of their friendship. I just don’t see it that way. Maybe it’s because I am often able to enjoy a wide variety of aspects in fandom, even the ones that aren't my 100% cup of tea. I was introduced to fandom super young and was well versed in the concept of ship wars and I was around for the ‘super gay hell’ fiasco. I have been supportive of the ‘ship and let ship’ concept forever and will be forever. I genuinely hate the concept of a nOTP and will not participate in shutting down other ships for no reason, even ones I don't personally ship.

Because that is not the fandom I want to participate in.

I've seen what happened in the Star Wars fandom before I was a part of it. I have read the posts, I have heard the horror stories, I have been shocked and appalled and I'm still grappling with if this is a fandom I really want to invest my time, energy, and creativity into. A place filled with so much hate and negativity that I have thought of turning away, leaving, abandoning works I've longed to write, simply because I can't seem to resolve this fandom that has been so kind to me with the one that has genuinely harmed so many people. I write primarily Gen fic because it is what usually captures my interests. The intensity of a relationship outside of a romantic or sexual tie. One that is reliant solely on the affection and care between characters who are just like that about each other. And that has seemed to garner way less hate and toxicity than those who participate in shipping on the regular. So, is everyone actually nice or are you only nice to me because you see me as worthy of your respect because of what I do or don't ship? Have you ever thought about that? Because I have. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Now, I don’t really ship the straight ships, but I don’t think you’re evil for doing so. I like my media queer, everyone else can like their media however they like, and we can all coexist as long as no one starts getting weird about it.

I think we do need more diverse representation for sexuality and different types of relationships in canon and fanon because it’s all a big ecosystem and it needs variety to survive and appeal to more people, but I also don’t think the burden of that should fall on the fans. We shouldn’t be pushing fans to abandon their preferred ship bc not enough people like the relationship the way you do. That’s unrealistic. What we should be doing is focusing on doing things the way we specifically like them done. I love intense relationships and primarily it ends up being platonic, that doesn't mean you need to see it or write yours that way. If I do what I love and you do what you love chances are we are all going to find our people and it's going to be a lot of fun. I'm not going to scoff at you for shipping a ship I don't. That's silly. I hope you enjoy reading them falling in love a thousand different times in a thousand different ways in a thousand different universes. I hope it makes you happy. I may even want to read some of your faves too, if you share them with me.

I think fans should ship whatever they want. I think if you like the straight ship, if you prefer the queer ship, if you prefer platonic relationships then have at it. Do your thing. Have fun in the way you want to have fun and be unapologetic about it. Ship rare pairs. Ship people from different tv shows. Ship what makes your heart feel full and happy.

But don’t go on rampages against other people’s ships just because you personally don’t like them.

It’s okay to feel frustrated that the way you like to participate isn’t the most popular way. It’s okay to feel frustrated that there aren’t more characters who are ace or bisexual or strictly platonic. It’s okay to feel frustrated about that. But it is not the fandom’s job to create that for you. Don’t go after people just happily shipping their characters. Don’t draw a line between us as if we can’t all just get along in our little bubbles. This is supposed to be fun. Our fantasy world where anything can happen and it all does happen. A beautiful little town where we hand out fics and art like they’re a fresh batch of bread we made that we want to share. Dividing us only leads to fandoms fizzling out and that’s not what anyone wants, now is it?

All of this to say that I love the big wide world that is fandom. I have read some things I never thought I would, seen some art I didn't expect to like, and made a lot of really great friends throughout the years. And, hey, we may not ship the same thing. I may not seem like the type of person you want to associate or talk with, but I hope that I've built a space that says 'you come as you are and I come as I am' because I know so deeply how it feels to be ostracized because of something other people didn't like about me. I know how it feels to be left out, to be hated, to be bullied, to be harmed by other people. And I never want to be someone who does that to other people.

So, hey, if you aren't sure about all of this discourse then maybe this has helped at least show you a different perspective even if it didn't change your mind. Fandom is supposed to be for everyone and it hasn't actually been for everyone... maybe ever. We still have a long way to go, as much as we may start to believe we have reached a peak, or allow ourselves to get complacent.

Fandom should be for everyone and I hope I live to see the day that it is.

[prismatoxic]

(ID in alt!)

hey there! my name is tox and I'm a 29-year-old gay trans man who loves writing, drawing, playing video games, and thinking about fictional men kissing.

writing tag

art tag

original text posts/post additions tag

promises to keep tag (in case that's why you're here)

my current main fandom is dungeon meshi, and my main ship for that is chilaios. I'm caught up on the anime and have read the manga; my spoiler tags are #dunmeshi spoilers (for general major story spoilers and things the anime hasn't gotten to yet) and #dunmeshi anime spoilers (for details specific to new or imminently upcoming anime episodes). my posts about dunmeshi have been sparse lately, and i'm mostly into shared OC worlds right now, but don't be surprised if i swing back in at random (or when season 2 drops).

some other fandoms you may see from time to time are the legend of zelda, persona (mostly 4 and 5), fall out boy, gravity falls, cult of the lamb, star trek (mostly tos and lower decks), dragon age, and a random collection of others I'm also into. I typically tag for fandom (especially if it's one likely to show up again on my blog), as well as ship if applicable.

I also reblog a lot of general stuff, from queer discussions to fandom discourse to stuff I just find funny. I have an organizational tag system and I also add commentary tags to a lot of things. (sorry for clogging your notes with those if I reblog from you a lot.)

generally speaking, I don't really do the DNI stuff, but that said: my blog is 18+ and I will block minors who follow me or message me directly. I'm also profic as you can see in the above image and my blog description; this means I believe everyone should have the freedom to depict and enjoy anything they want to in fiction. I do not condone irl harm of any kind (unless it's consensual, I'm pro-kink too!). if you are someone who hates "illegal ships" or has "proship DNI" in your bio, you won't like it here, and I'll block you if I notice you in my notes.

to wrap this up, I am forgetful and shy but I do really love engaging with people, so I'm generally happy to answer messages if you're not being a dick (I will block you if you are). anon asks are on at present and will stay on unless people use them to harass me; feel free to send me stuff! I'm always open to being corrected/given additional info for anything I post or reblog, as well, so don't be afraid to send such messages as long as you're polite.

other places you can find me:

ao3

aethy

twitter

buzzly

my chilaios discord server, which is also where I post updates and behind the scenes stuff for my fic promises to keep! (make sure to fully read the rules!)

[zeroducks-2]

DickWally hate tends to be "HE HAS A WIFE!!!" and about removing Linda and JayRoy is either age gap or stealing Dick's friends or removing Jade from the equation. Actually most of the M/M ships I've seen people able to ship with no issues are canon gay ships, popular ones all tend to just get sneered at. I like an unpopular character who I want to be gay, and fandom insists that I have to ship him with his canon gay friend/enemy/acquaintance (all his other friends are married to women and husband theft is illegal), but also if you ship the canon gay outside his canon boyfriend you get harassed.

It might be people insisting on canon to the detriment of everything else, or it might just be homophobia being covered by the fact that the characters are canonically straight, but it's definitely making fandom worse.

I KNEW IT. I fucking knew that the whole "If you divorce the M/F canon ship it means you're sexist and a misogynist!" was being crafted by antis for antis, and yes anon, it ABSOLUTELY is a homophobic thing.

These fuckers love to hide behind a righteous cover and this is only the last one they cooked up. Like imagine pretending you're doing activism while harassing someone because they don't ship the canon ass heterosexual relationship, which nine times out of them is boring as fuck, done VERY POORLY and with no respect for the female characters who are treated like pretty potted plants to keep in the background (no hate towards RoyJade or Wallinda in particular, but it happens MANY TIMES that the female character isn't really a character but just a love interest with the depth of a cardboard cutout).

Fandom has always been about deviations from the canon. It's always been about "what if these two characters with lots of romantic and/or sexual tension did something about it", about "what if all this queerbaiting actually went somewhere", about queer folks being able to explore their identities and kinks with the safety of a space in which they aren't treated like freaks.

Fuck these people. If they care so much about how female characters in medias, I invite them to go yell at DC for how it attempted to erase Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown from the main comicbook continuity post reboot, for how it treated (and keeps treating) Barbara Gordon by infantilizing her and stripping her of all her hard fought victories as a disabled vigilante, for ignoring Wonder Woman and not giving her satisfying plotlines, for treating Starfire like a dumb slut in Lobdell's run, and I could go on and on and on but the truth is - truth that we all already know - these people don't give one single fuck about female characters or women in general and they only care about finding new and convoluted ways to push other (queer!) fans out of their safe spaces, policing their behavior and erasing queerness from fandom in general in the name of "protecting" the sanctity of fictional fucking characters.

I am going to start blocking people who keep reblogging the whole "if you divorce the m/f ship you're sexist" parade because I'm really tired, and I hope everyone else quickly catches on and blocks these assholes too.

[supernaturalkickparty]

Seeing some fandom wank on shipping this Sunday morning and all I can think of is- its not real. its for fun.

"but the people/actors are real!!" yes, but are they physically being hurt? are they being harmed in any way shape or form? no??? then let people ship what they want.

I may like something you may not like and that's ok. Not everyone will like the same thing.

Plus you curate your own experience here on tumblr dot com. You choose what you want to see.

I post a ton of different things, I also tag everything because I know some mutuals don't want to see whats being posted.

I am also deathly terrified of sharks but i have that tag and variations of the tag blocked because I curate what I want on my blog.

I don't care for Destiel at all, but i have it blacklisted so I wont see it but again, I have mutuals who do ship and post and I'm like 👍because that's their thing. I'm not gonna be ugly and tell them their ship is wrong or anything like that because you're allowed to ship whatever the hell you want.

Just like yes I do ship wincest but I also post and love the gen canon aspect of Sam and Dean because I can separate what I ship from what's actually canon.

Same with rpf, whether is wrestling, actors, whatever, whoever, you ship, just ship them and have fun.

The only time I have an issue with anything is when people force their ships on one another, force their NSFW fics/fanart on the actors, or they harass said actors on validity of a ship.

let fandom spaces stay fun and don't be a dick.

[proshippers-against-censorship]

I hate the assumption that being into "problematic" content inherently involves something about children/minors in at least some kind of way. Basically all I see is arguments how proshipping is bad because of pedophilia and incest.

Ok, but, like, no? Actually ever since joining an 18+ shipping server, I've noticed how much of the content, especially in separately dedicated dark content channels, icks me and I cannot continue reading the conversation. But I still don't harass anyone about it. No, not even when I click on a fic out of curiosity and it ends up making me want to take my eyes out.

I don't want anything about kids or family members in my smut. I only really care for non-con/dub-con, violence and abusive/power imbalanced or yandere relationships (with adults). I'm not interested in experiencing anything like that irl, from neither side, I only like it because it's fiction. The characters I have in mind right now in this particular ship are also both serial killers, btw. Somehow that doesn't seem to be a problem for the majority of people though, because we all know all that "video games cause violence" is nothing but bs.

Or someone could genuinely only read fics about the most wholesome, non-toxic characters in fluffy relationships where they genuinely love each other, and they could still be a proshipper. Because being proship has nothing to do with your own personal preferences, it's a moral stance, not a short way of saying you have socially unacceptable kinks

Yeah. I have it written in SO MANY PLACES on my account that I do not consume incest content (though some of these antis have me tempted to spite ship), and that I don't consume any content with explicitly underage characters...though I do like stuff with babyface femmes because it gives me a bit more body confidence. Its just not my vibe. So its really weird to be accused of being a pedo when I don't want anything to do with kids, whether real or fictional.

But yeah, no, the only servers I've seen, including nsfw and 18+ servers, have been fully separated out. Because part of being respectful is understanding that not everyone wants to see your dick when they open up the channel to talk about hot pockets. And you'd think the folks who don't want to see those things would...just mute/block/ignore those channels instead of commenting like, 'put your tits away' on the nudes channel and shit like that. Those are incredibly light examples, but yeah...if it isn't your favor just walk away? Don't know why that's that hard?

"Ohohhohoho but this dark porn is going to make them want to SA some gal on the streets" You play CoD. Do you want to headshot your neighbor?

You're 100% right, anon. Sorry it took me a long ramble to get to this point, I'm a rambly and kinda nonsensical person, yikes. But yeah, proship is 100% a moral stance. What you personally consume and write doesn't matter. What makes you proship is minding your own business and curating your own online experience instead of expecting the world to cater to you.

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

I'll be fair and say it wasn't right for Bryke to insult Zvtara shippers in 2008. As much as I dislike Zvtara and wish it wasn't so popular I don't condone bullying and harassment and karma certainly got Bryke...And may have only made Zvtara even more popular much to my dismay.

But...The way Zvtara shippers are still talking about that as if it happened yesterday. Couldn't these people be the bigger people? But no! They aren't acting as if they themselves have a license to be the bullies just because they advocate for the non-canon ship.

Even taking in account Bryke being dicks to people that like stuff they didn't expect people to like (as an Azula fan, I have plenty of experience with that): What Zutarians did and CONTINUE to do is way worse than what they did.

Bryke mocked and insulted them over a decade ago, saying stuff like "they'll all end up in bad relationships for liking this 'dark' ship". Zutarians meanwhile have spent nearly 20 years making up wild conspiracy theories about how Bryan and Mike supposedly are:

1 - Awful bosses that harrassed and tormented all the poor writters in their staff, shit on every good idea they had, and then stole all the credit when some of said ideas were received well.

2 - Ragging misogynists that think women are sex objects, baby-making machines, and are obligated to date any "Nice Guy" that is into them, regardless what they actually want.

3 - PEDOPHILES that use Aang as a self-insert to "get away with fantisizing about a 14-year-old girl" (keep in mind, Zutara fans, like most shippers, write lots of smut about their ship - even though both characters are underage, so by their own definition of "pedo fantasies" they would ALSO be pedophiles, so what right would they have to judge?).

This is WAY worse than just "made some rude, totally uncalled for comments 15 years ago." This isn't Bryke reaping what they sowed, this is Zutara fans being completly deranged and wanting to ruin the reputation of these two men, not just as writers but as PEOPLE... just because they made Katara kiss Aang instead of Zuko.

Not to mention, Zutarians don't attack JUST Bryke, they attack anyone who prefers any other ship over Zutara. Even if Bryke WERE just as bad as the zutarians hating on them, how would that justify the harrassment, bullying and death threats towards all the people whose only "crime" was not being into their OTP?