#alicent's characterization

[horizon-verizon]

A reminder, and yes, I do and will continue to like or think Visenya differently over Alicent, and NOT bc she is a Targ. Just because Visenya and Alicent were both usurpers who put their sons before others egregiously AND wanted power or soem sort of prestige through their sons, doesn't mean they like each other and/or politically support or approve of the other or that they are one-to-one comparable nor "the same" type of person. Criminals who even are a part of the same syndicate or gang or whatever do not need to like each other! They are not the same not under similar circumstances and they both would acknoweldge that. I do think both wanted a "reward" for their parts in what they were enlisted for as part of the dynasty maintenace, but there's also too much particular differences that would never make Alicent like or admire Visenya and vice versa, like Rhaenyra does Visenya. Really, the fact Alicent disliked Rhaenyra even before she had her kids should tell us how she'd view Visenya.

But getting back to the real thing, even if it weren't a question of "like" and was a question of "exact sameness"...just no. Commonality rooted in gender, sure. "Same"? No. Instrinsically the same? No. That's ignoring the impact of their circumstances on who they are/became.

Visenya's ambitions are not mired in the same contexts of "tradition", as Alicent's are. They do not have the same sort of motivation in regards to "saftey" of themselves or their house' prospects. Alicent did not "need" to protect herself and her kids liek Visenya did with the entire dynasty.

The State of the Kingdom

One also has to consider that unlike Alicent, Visenya had to have observed what sort of mess Aenys left behind in just a few years with SEVERAL rebellions popping up against the Targs. A FRESH (more or less) dynasty she herself had fought to make with her siblings through warfare. She had a real crisis on her hands. The entire dynasty did.

Later her sister dies a presumably ugly death with one fo their greatest assets--her dragon--that could have been bonded to later Targs. She tries to complete the "mission" or the goal by conquering Dorne, the last bastion of the previous 7 kingdoms (No matter how one in the audience feels about Rhaenys and the Targs trying to conquer Dorne and being conquerors as Nymeria was, nation-building and conquest was how one of Visenya's most treasured people died and we will need to consider how this sould have motivated her later on, perhaps to honor her sister's and hers and Aegon's efforts by making sure the house stays up. We're talking about characterization and development, here.)

It is not conjecture, but FACT that the Targs were in danger of losing all that they had "worked" for after Aenys died. Concerning Aegon--Aenys' son and heir--or even just Rhaena--the girl Visenya said should marry Maegor for virtue of being the eldest of Aenys' kids when concersn of the succession came up and before Aegon was born--he was very young who hadn't yet bonded, what less ridden a dragon yet to face the wars and rebellions. Maegor had that experience, intimidation factor, etc. and he was much older, had already bonded and claimed and ridden Balerion for a time--Aegon I's dragon, both symbolically and practically favorable since Balerion was the oldest and largest and most experienced dragon in the Targaryen arsenal of the time.

Alicent usurped a woman when she had no real need to and had convinced herself she did. Book or show. Once again, dragons literally change the game from the usual succession crises; with dragons, her kids would not have had many people try to use them against Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra herself said she would have kept them in her court, and she said she'd do away with Akicent and otto AFTER these two crowned Aegon...not before. Bec those 2 were the ones who we the reader AND Rhaenyra saw and knew had put them all up to this for years. Finally, Rhaenyra had far more support from the lords as we see. She would have likely peacefully ascended and if there were soem lords eho foolishly tried it, she and the Targs collectively had way more dragons than was really necessary to put down rebellions of dragonless people who would have more liekly had been smal in number bc no one eants to mess with dragons without one of their own. I mean, the 3 conqueros had way less soldiers and only 3 at the tiem of the Conquest and during and afterwards....but they won relatively quickly. The pre-Dance Targ generations collectively had way more: Dreamfyre, Syrax, Caraxes, Meleys (if Rhaenys could be persuaded), Vhagar, Sunfyre...

The Targs' (or just her own) Personal Wounds

I must repeat myself -- yes, Visenya could have ALSO seen this as opportunity to finally obtain some power for herself and to have some gains for her work.

A "Queen" would mean something different for her versus the court she's ruling. I think there's a possible interesting question here about whether Visenya at some point looked at the value put into having male heirs and had some of the same anxieties of her perspective of herself versus how the court she and her siblings ruled saw her/them but I am talking here about Visenya alone:

she is Valyrian and the court she/they conquered is Faith-worshipping or old gods worshipping Andal and First Men desended MAJORITY; she would have had to observe and navigate what sort of subtle, nonrecorded compromises of how she'd perform her queenly power due to her gender she can make, which I suspect she succeeded but the performance itself may have or may have not grated on her more and more as time went on (thus a simmering frustration there) -> there is a close proximity to the "ultimate" sort of power that she performed the militaristic labor for like Aegon did in near the same ways...well really yes, the exact same ways, and yet she's also still on the side

motherhood & value of the female body to those she rules vs how she may have witnessed such on Dragonstone even with her being so confident and capable, etc.

bc one could never be immune to a systematic/social organization of value. You can't be immune to society. She didn't socially conform, but it's possibe that her vulnerability/blindspot when it came to Maegor's early "troublesomeness" and cruelty stemmed from her wanting a means of self validation. NOT FROM MEN THROUGH SEX AND OBEIDENCE OWED TO A HIGHER AUTHORITY OR REPRODUCTIVE LABOR IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE AND FOR MEN TO "PICK" HER in case some want liken her to show!Alicent, but validating her "work" and becoming a bastion of Targ rule in a way Alicent didn't. Yes Alicent's producing male spares was important and put her in danger, I'm merely sayign that Visenya did that with Maegor AND was in many battles, procured a whole knigdome without violence, created the Kingsguard--i,e., did a lot more than the "average" woman got to do--and maybe she wanted something that "equaled" that sort of set of accomplishment. soemthign that "matched" it.

I also agree with hamliet (linked above in the OG post) & think she could have looked at Aegon and Rhaenys' relationship and possibly wanted something of her own and this got tangled with legacy bc feudal families and politics are enmeshed with each other through the idea of "legacy", which manifests as something the individual comes to try to gain to create meaning for themselves, of themselves.

Together Now

Through Maegor, the ideal warrior (not knight, that's Andal I mean just warrior but to her he might have surpassed such since he fit with a lot of Andal ideals of such as well), she might have thought she was both validating herself AND pushing the dynatys forward. And that she wanted said dynasty to preserve a literal piece of herself through said son. Have a lineage to trace back to her like Rhaenys looked like she was going to have when she birthed Aenys before she herslef birthed Maegor. Be "immortalized" through those heirs Maegor would have like Daemon wanted heirs through him as well as all the other stuff as well as the action of him ruling under her guidance/support/dragon/reference, bc Visenya was never far from Maegor when he ruled until more towards the end. That she'd have a less mitigated influence than before, bc I suspect that Rhaenys also did court stuff a lot better than Visenya, espe the subtler stuff, and Visenya would retreat more often.

It's a "my turn" sort of situation. A lot more centered on "my" than in Alicent's case.

It's very easy to see how she justified this all as her needing to preserve the house first by making sure it not just puts down the reblllions but also stays "down". (In answer to "why not Maeor or her be Aeon's commander instead of ousting him altogether?") It is especially when Maeor's cruelty brought on other threats & he couldn't sire an heir, she herself began to have some regrets - a lost gamble. And I do not think this makes her "evil" or "overly ambitious"; like with Rhaenyra, who also was and felt jilted from her usurpation and people trying to use her gender against her, it makes Visenya fallible and desirous of getting what is her "due" when opportunity strikes.

Yea, Alicent would ave felt jilted in that she and like other noble women, Targ or not, she expected her sons to pass over the oldest girl from a previous marriage.

Anyway, this is why I prefer Visenya, not bc she is Targaryen as if I superifically like Targaryens and their dragons, but bec there is substance & textual evidence to contextualize my preference. They are the drivers of Westerosi history for a reason other than being conquerors. It's not just having dragons, it's the effect of having dragons on humans reflected in the Targs and the way they ruled and created Westeros as it is known today. To summarize.

Targaryens are usually like reflectors or agents who have so much tension, are somehow both cronically rebellious against the Andal-FM Westerosi status quo and trying to make use of the status quo or survive under it in a particular way(s) that is very fascinating to me. Even as a lot of them don't actually conform, ever, no matter the generation. Because they actually can't in a lot of ways.

That and I personally just can't stand ult-trad people, esp those who practiced Christian-like religions. Of which Alicent is of.

Visenya usurped the throne because Aenys was weak and unfit to rule. Visenya would see Aegon as unfit to rule, he’s a lazy, unambitious, self-indulgent, lecherous, and gluttonous alcoholic. And Aemond LITERALLY FAILED HIS FIRST DIPLOMATIC MISSION.

And let’s not forget that Visenya/The Conqueror’s trio advisor was a dark-haired Targaryen bastard and very likely their half-brother, Orys Baratheon, who later founded house Baratheon.

If Visenya was around during the Dance, what she’d do to the Greens would make Castemere look like a joke.

No disagreements. It is just a straight delusion to think otherwise, that she'd congratulate the greens in any way shape or form. I think this is the green stans way of combating the black stan headcanon that Rhaenyra favored and aspired to be like Visenya or recognize that Aemond rides her dragon, and thus wishes to claim/twist more of her to legitimize him...forgetting that she also ushered in Maegor, so what does that make Aemond?

And the greens themselves would not thank Visenya even if she were inclined: she's a woman-warrior who was reputed to have done magic arts, is not their direct ancestor as Rhaenys was (even if she was her sister, it is not through her womb/blood the Targs continued) and, again, MAEGOR--the most hated pre-dragon-loss Targ king.

Why would any of them want to associate anything of themselves with her except to make use of her dragon? Funny.

Still, all of this describes her best intentions and not the fuller picture. It IS true that she usurped Aenys' heir Aegon, and not Aenys AND that she also very likely was willfully blind to Maegor out of love [headcanon post by hamliet] and a desire to have a legacy/grow a lineage with him. She was not perfect & willfully blinded herself, but hardly as evil as some people try to make her out to be.

In my opinion, she clearly came to have regrets about Maegor ("Sons of the Dragon"):

Unlike Maegor, Visenya knew when to be diplomatic but also be effectively threatening AND not overpower those who she needed to collaborate with (how she dealt with the Vale; her partnership with her siblings).

[horizon-verizon]

The randomness of Alicole suddenly having nonstop sex makes sense when you remember these writers want to put a stop to Rhaenicent.

They were all for queerbaiting but there was no way in hell they were actually going to make any of their leads queer even if George's books suggest Rhaenyra's bisexuality.

So the very first scene of Alicent is her getting eaten out by Cole, just to remind the audience she's straight and is sexually attracted to man not her stepdaughter.

This has less to do with "is this realistic for the characters?" and more "will this put an end to fan specualtion about the character's sexuality?".

Never considered this. Could be both simultaneously: to make Alicent is straight thing obvious by the frequency of alicole's sex AND the existence of the ship itself becoming HotD canon bc of Alicent given something more to do. But you make great points, anon.

[lucysgraybird]

⋆｡𖦹° i mean camaraderie! °𖦹｡⋆

part 2 of the short 'n sweet series

modern!WILLIAM H. BONNEY (BTK) x fem!reader

warnings: smut (18+), dry humping, oral, potentially unrealistic refractory period, penetrative sex, there was supposed to be more plot but i got lazy

a night out on your own isn't exactly your perfect idea of fun, but there are worse things to be doing on a friday. in a dress that doesn't leave quite enough to the imagination with glitter smeared on your eyelids, you're just about the picture of a girl on the town, and you intend to make the most of it. you've claimed a seat and a cocktail (generously, little more than liquor and juice) at the shitty bar you've wandered into, and dedicated yourself to some intense people watching.

and boy, were there people to watch.

most importantly, a man sitting at a table across the room with his legs spread wide. such was a trait you normally found unattractive in men, but as he wasn't inconveniencing anyone with his need to lay claim to his space, you let it slide. with thick dark curls that curved out from the nape of his neck like little wings and crystalline eyes, he would almost be more pretty than handsome if it wasn't for an inherent ruggedness in his being, in the slouch of his shoulders and the cut of his jaw and his lazily buttoned shirt and the way he reaches down to adjust his pants- oh, wow.

anyways, he's caught your attention partially because of his genuine attractiveness and partially because you've been able to feel the weight of his gaze on you since you walked in. you're waiting to see which one of you will break first.

as it turns out, it's him, the click of his boots heavy as he walks over when you tear your eyes away to take a sip of your drink.

"hiya, miss."

and oh, you're done for. he's got the sweetest little drawl and the slightest curve to full, pink lips, and those two words are spoken with such a genuine cordiality that it almost makes you cry. it's as though he should be touching the brim of a cowboy hat at you as you take your morning prom, rather than sidling up in some run-down dive.

he's an angel. you have to fuck him.

"hello," you say, crossing your legs. his big eyes drop to follow the slight movement, and you don't miss the way they stutter over your body on their way back to your face.

he clears his throat. "i'm billy."

his hands are fiddling with the hem of his pearl-snap button down.

you introduce yourself with a gentle smile, taking pity on the poor boy's obvious nerves. "i felt you watching me."

"i didn't mean anything...funny by it. i thought you were pretty and i couldn't help but stare. you know how it is." he's moved now to lean on the bar next to you, facing out towards the room with his elbows braced on the wooden top.

glancing up at him, you say, "do i?"

"don't think i couldn't feel those eyes of yours on me, darlin'," he replies, and when he flicks his gaze back down to you, it's different. heavier, darker. he might be the picture of polite, but he's not shy - or inexperienced, if you had to guess.

there's a beat of silence, a taught string holding to see if it'll have to snap on its own or if someone will take a knife to it and put it out of its misery.

"do you wanna get out of here?" billy asks, and the second you nod, he's threading his hand through yours and tugging you out the door.

outside, he sneaks a chaste, silly kiss against your lips, a smile on his that you would classify as drunken if he hadn't just displayed wonderful conversational sobriety. it sparks something in your chest, a kind of carnal need you've never felt before, and you're surging to kiss him for real. he's responding in kind without much of a reaction time, pressing one large hand to the small of your back and using the other to tip your face up towards his. this creates an effective angle for him to lick into your mouth - he tastes like whiskey and smoke - as he steers you both into an alley and presses you up against the brick wall.

"someone could see," you mumble when the kiss breaks so that neither of you asphyxiate on pure desire. you're still so close you can feel the way his breath hiccups against the thin skin of your lips, and you might just go insane.

"i'll cover you," billy replies, like it's the simplest thing in the world.

he curves his broad body over you as he starts to press kisses to your cheek and jaw, revelling in the way your breath shakes when you exhale. when his tongue sneaks out at your pulse point and laves the skin there, you have to grab onto his bicep for stability. your free hand sliding into his hair coaxes a low groan out of him and the vibration almost makes you buckle, your whole body feeling raw and hot like a live wire stripped to its copper core. billy nudges his knee between your legs to keep you upright, and the way it brushes against the most sensitive part of you elicits a bitten-back moan.

"you like that," he says, and it's not a question.

his hands slide down to your hips, guiding them back and forth on his thigh, and the combination of the seam of the shorts you're wearing under your dress (you wanted to look hot, but you're not stupid) and the feeling of his firm muscle under you makes your head spin. as you start to rock against him of your own accord, his mouth returns to your neck where he muffles his own sounds into kisses and bites. the way he drags his teeth over the taut tendon at the same time you manage to rock against the hard line of his desire makes you cry out, and billy captures your mouth in a fierce kiss.

"shh, baby, gotta be quiet," he murmurs. "wouldn't want anyone hearing how good you're making yourself feel on my thigh."

you know he's just as affected by this as you are, but he's managing to keep his head much further on his shoulders despite it and it's maddening.

when your movements speed up, he starts talking again.

"there you go, pretty girl. take what you need, okay? fuck, you're gorgeous. you look so good like this, darlin', you're gonna ruin me."

the rumble of his voice in your ear has you feeling very much like he's going to ruin you, actually, a coil of heat twisting in your belly to the point where you can't decide whether you want to get closer or get away.

"billy, billy," you whine, hands twisting in his shirt. "oh, oh, i'm gonna-"

"atta girl, honey, you gonna cum on my thigh? this all it takes to get you all worked up?"

he's teasing but it's almost sweet; there's a distinct tone of wonder in his voice as he pulls back to watch the way your lashes flutter and your lips part around a gasp. when you manage to confirm how close you are, he pulls his leg away just before you finish, tight hands spanning your waist keeping you upright. the frustrated look you give him has him huffing out a laugh and kissing your nose.

"wanna fuck you for real, honey," billy hums. "and i'm not doing that in an alleyway."

and okay, maybe you're a little stupid, because you're walking home with him and fumbling with your keys while he presses against your back and lets you feel all of him, then presses you up against the wall in your entryway and kisses you like he needs it to live. his hands are making quick work of the zipper at the back of your dress and pushing the straps off your shoulders, lips following nimble fingers over your collarbone and down your chest. the heat of his tongue over your nipple has you arching towards his mouth with a whimper. before you can process it, he's on his knees in front of you, hands around your hips. he thumbs the waistband of your shorts.

"can i take these off?"

when your brain catches up with your body and you figure out what he's offering to do, you immediately start, "oh, you don't have t-"

"'s that what i asked?" billy's looking up at you with soft eyes, his thumbs rubbing over your hip bones.

you shake your head. the tender way he's treating you juxtaposed with what he wants to do is stirring an aching want in your chest that drips like lava to burn in the cradle of your pelvis.

"so...can i take these off?"

but when you nod, his hands don't move.

"words, please," he murmurs, and kisses just below your navel.

"yes, god, please, billy, just-"

in one swift motion, billy yanks down your shorts and panties to leave them dangling around one ankle and lift the other to hook over his shoulder, and then his mouth is on you. licking and sucking, his goal seems to be to make as much of a mess of you as possible. he alternates kitten licks at your clit with sweeping strokes with the flat of his tongue. there's a pleasure-pain mix where his hands dig into your thighs to hold you still and upright as you try to writhe against his tongue, and it's dizzying. when he fucks his tongue into you, he uses his nose (intentionally or otherwise, you can't be sure) to maintain a hard pressure against your clit, and it's dragging you to your precipice embarrassingly fast. you're dimly aware of the way his hips are moving, the brush of denim against the shin of your (not-so) supporting leg, but you don't have the wherewithal to think anything of it. before you can even think to warn him, you're coming with a moan of his name, giving a short tug to his curls when he mouths at you through your orgasm. the sheen of your pleasure is smeared around his nose and lips, and there's a haze in his eyes like he's high off the taste of you.

"you taste good," he says, a gravel to his voice that makes you want to tug him up so you can drop to your knees.

which is, in fact, what you try to do, and he just clutches tighter at your hips and tips his forehead to rest against your tummy with a breathless chuckle.

"just...give me a second, honey."

it's then that you notice the way his body's trembling slightly and the - it might just be the lighting of your entryway - slightly darkened patch on the front of his trousers.

"did you...?"

billy gives you a cheeky, wry grin. "you taste really good."

minutes later, he has you leading him to your bedroom. it proves to be a difficult enough task because neither of you can spend more than ten seconds without kissing the other, so there's quite a bit of unsuccessful tumbling before the back of his knees hits the bed and you go tumbling on top of him. immediately, you're fumbling at his belt and freeing him from the confines of his pants. he groans as his cock springs up, rock hard and a pretty shade of red. an involuntary whimper sneaks out of you - he's big. not, like, monstrous, but definitely large enough that you can expect a dizzying stretch.

billy's hands drift over the fat of your hips, caressing. "everything okay?"

a beat, then: "i want to ride you."

he blinks. "well, i'm not going to say no."

you raise up to ease down onto him with his help, and you were right about the stretch. soaked as you are, there's a distinct burn that has your chin tipping down to your chest. when you're fully seated, he's pressing against every spot imaginable inside you, and the experimental roll of your hips sends verifiable sparks flying up your spine. billy leaves one hand on your hips, guiding your rhythm, and the other comes up to cup your chest as he looks up at you in wonder.

"you're so- shit, beautiful," he strangles out. "prettiest girl i've ever seen and i'm lucky enough t...fuck, to see you like this? god, you're squeezing me like a fuckin' vice, darlin', i'm not gonna last-"

and again, his coherence in this moment amazes you, because it feels like the push of his dick in your cunt sent all thoughts flying right out of your head, but as you brace your hands against his chest and start to move faster, he starts to be affected in the same way. his muttered oaths mix with your whines and cries, and soon he's scrabbling at your skin.

"hold on, baby, i'm gonna- just-"

without the mental means to finish his sentence, he flips the two of you over and pushes back into you, one hand flying down to rub your puffy clit. your head tips back and you stammer out a warning before your vision whites out with the force of your orgasm. billy ruts into you once, twice more before he's pulling out and fisting himself, painting sticky ropes over your stomach with a broken groan of your name. when he falls over you, both of you panting, he keeps his elbows braced by your head so you don't take his full weight. after a while, he laughs.

"what?" you say, just barely returned to yourself enough to process your surroundings.

"probably should've bought you dinner first," he breathes. you smack his shoulder; he kisses the corner of your mouth and goes to find a cloth to clean the both of you up with. hazy and sated, there's a sneaking warmth in your chest with the feeling that this isn't the last time this'll happen - and that there might be a relationship beyond it in the near future.

[aparticularbandit]

Thinking about the hallucinations that the coven members saw and coming down on two interpretations:

1) This was the most traumatic event of their life.

OR

2) This was a threatened loss (or in Lilia's case, perhaps a true loss) of the person most important to them.

Sharon and Alice are our two main ballparks for this (while Jennifer gives us another angle).

Sharon's vision was reliving the scene in WandaVision where her husband was choking and she couldn't do anything but plead with Wanda to do something. We know, as WandaVision viewers, that Mr. Davis did not die then, but we also know from the current series that he has since passed away. This scene for Sharon was traumatic, but that trauma was intrinsically tied to losing her husband - the most important person in her life.

Alice's vision involved her mother and (as far as we know) didn't involve any loss of life (except her grandmother, but that is not the focus of the vision) but DID involve the threat to her mother's life, as described by her mother. Given context clues from her conversation with Teen, we can safely assume that this was just prior to her mother forcing her to get her tattoo. We know that Alice's mom is the most important person in her life (which is building on the themes of family and especially mother-child relationships that the series seems to have as its main theme (we know from casting that Evanora should show up later, so they're going full in on this - not the point)) - and while this is not a physical loss of her mother, I think for Alice this specific moment marks when her mother as she knew her was lost to her. Because that's when she inherited that magic. That's when she became something different. Clearly this would have been a traumatic moment at the time, but I'm not sure it feels like one as seen in the show.

We do not know enough about Lilia to know exactly what was going on here in terms of who that person (or people) was to her, but if they're all dead, I would definitely call that a traumatic event and loss of life - for at least one person who I would say is clearly important to her, given she followed them.

Jennifer is our anomaly.

With every other coven member, the threat is not to them personally, but to a loved one, and this, for me, is why I give two interpretations. The idea that they are reliving their most traumatic event is kinder to Jennifer, because an attempted murder by drowning is definitely significantly traumatic (and explains why she jumped into the oven so quickly - been there, done that, not about to do it again).

But the other interpretation is more interesting to me, because if it's threat to the person most valuable to them, then that says the most valuable person to Jennifer is herself.

(Regarding Agatha, this reinforces either that Nicholas is the person most important to her (and continues the idea that her desire for the Darkhold superseded her love for him) OR that losing Nicholas was the most traumatic event in her life. I feel like we been knew on these; it's what this says about Jennifer that was most intriguing to me.)

[horizon-verizon]

With Rhaenyra becoming this "peace-loving" person PLUS how we know Rhaenyra's fate, it's also them perpetuating the ideas that:

after too much loss & grief, a woman defaults to "cultish" leadership to "trick" others into following her through a a "savior" complex when she "falsely" believes she's fulfilling a "false" prophecy by her father's word---thus she must need another male--better yet, a male relative--to put her down and save the world

GoT Tyrion, S8, regarding Dany: "she killed people and we cheered her for it" -- Rhaenyra becomes a lesson in fanaticism as if just wanting & acting to have what men are socially graced AND WAS ALREADY BESTOWED LEGALLY BY THE LAST RULER is "fanatical" OR that women are so uniquely predisposed to "madness" and irrationality when men enact violence or unjust action against them

women MUST have complexes about their gender OR just be NLOGs like Cersei order to be JUSTIFIED or be ABLE to want power or positions of such (Rhaenyra was no such thing)

"wronged women are...monstrous" [pic below & LINK]

LINK to article

In fact, the show is not actually doing any favors for Dany by confirming what was already obvious since the very first book. Whom they ruined and vilified in S8.

They are taking this approach of Daemon seeing Dany in visons and confirming she is Azor Ahai bc she is their most popular character of all time and they want to retain the fanbase for more ASoIaF projects. And to reaffirm their decision to make her this fanatical, power hungry, megalomaniac who Euron Greyjoy is actually like in this bloodstone Emperor vs Amethyst Empress/Azor Ahai Dany truly is parallel to.

They will either/both make it as if Dany was always meant to be Azor Ahai AND Nissa Nissa (the "sacrifice") and dies to "save" the world. not be the savior who lives and actively saves the world by her own merits/actions even if not totally by herself. that Dany will be the material, not the actor.

Two of the many reasons I hate House of the Dragon:

-- They're doubling down on GOT's vitriol that "the best ruler is the one that doesn't want to rule" that they used to vilify Dany in the end.

-- They made Alicent and Rhaenyra into these peace-loving characters, and gave many of Dany's peace-loving qualities to them. Which led to a bunch of show-watchers (and plenty of book readers that don't know the books well) to believe that Rhaenyra and Alicent are better queens/more peaceful/more reasonable than Dany. These fans end up loving Rhaenyra and Alicent while hating Dany, even though the reasons they love show!Rhaenyra and show!Alicent are precisely the qualities that the showrunners stole from book!Dany and gave to them.

[alicentalicent]

Watching episode 1x01 of House of the Dragon is a delight because you can find a lot of foreshadowing and nods to what will happen later. This part stood out for me because while Corlys is swearing fealty to Rhaenyra as Viserys' heir, the shot cuts to Alicent in a very pointed way.

We can see her with an expression that could be read as jealousy, perhaps, or being worried about what this means to Rhaenyra (Alicent is very smart, and the precedent in this respect does NOT bode well for Rhaenyra. Though maybe she's just being anxious (as per usual) about losing her friend to duty and responsibility soon idk Emily's acting is superb and this expression can be interpreted in many ways.)

That's the surface layer of the scene, but I find it interesting that Corlys, the one swearing fealty to Rhaenyra, betrays her at the end. Whereas Alicent, the one being shown at this moment, ends up walking a very complicated path where fealty and good faith are questioned, but we know now she chooses Rhaenyra at the end. Beautiful.

Followed by a quick interlude of Rhaenyra enveloped in flames, because of course she is.

And now we have the next Lord swearing fealty, Hobert Hightower, which we know will stop supporting Rhaenyra's claim from the very moment Aegon II draws his first breath.

The scene cuts to Daemon, who is at his lowest point because Viserys chose Rhaenyra as his heir in part to spite him and as a punishment for being an absolute prick about Baelon dying.

But we know that he ends up marrying Rhaenyra and supporting her claim. However, I would argue that his arc also questions "good faith and without deceit."

And finally, the scene cuts to none other than Mysaria, who we know will play an important part in Rhaenyra's cause.

It's fun that the focus is on her while Lord Hobert is swearing by the old gods and the new, especially if we think of the role she will play in advising Rhaenyra about the dragonseeds and thus leaning into the divine aspect of being a Targaryen, closer to the gods thanks to the dragons etc etc.

Heh, that's Mysaria on the stairs. (Young Rhaenyra would be like: "may the gods bless you wtf???")

Anyways I like finding scenes that on first watch are saying something and on rewatch you can notice maybe there's some more stuff hidden there.

Also I looooove noticing parallels between Alicent/Daemon on one side and Alicent/Mysaria on the other. Delicious food.

[horizon-verizon]

Team green is so funny rn they just realised that they hate that friendship because it hurt Alicent character but they like season 1 Alicent because she just innocent girl and it benefits them menwhile in season 1 rhaenyra fans had to suffer seeing her stepmother became her friend

Can u imagine they change Cersei making her same age as Sansa? And become her friend not only that they change the timeline to fit this storyline, they also give rhaenyra ticks to this woman, give her the dress moment, and rhaenyra is the one who had to be masculine, Alicent losing her mother when she is child?, making her a childbride while she in canon the main character who married at 18 older compared to Viserys, Rhaenyra, Rhaenys and Daemon euww idk what happen to this show but theres something wrong with this character that they really force people on their throat and ruined the actual story.

Show!Alicent is a character who steal everything from book!Rhaenyra just to make people like her and other character had to suffer for it and they mess up the timeline because of this character they aging up Haelaena's twin in span weeks for fuck sake they dont even know what year in that timeline

That friendship story only benefits Alicent character but now they taste their own medicine

Ryan Condal even proudly saying he is the captain of this ship in his podcast we are doom

At least it's over...FOR NOW! *dun dun dun*

[iheartbookbran]

The most egregious thing about Alicent’s hypocrisy isn’t really her fucking Criston. Honestly good for her and I hope they did it at least once in front of Viserys’ rotting corpse. Rather it’s her complaining about being undermined by her male relatives after spending a decade trying to undermine Rhaenyra in front of a bunch of men and actively participating in a usurpation plot against her. Or wondering if her letters to Rhaenyra have been answered after the usurpation plot she was part of lead to Rhaenyra’s son being killed. And then having the gal to include Luke in her prayers when since the moment that boy was born she’s been targeting him and his brothers for the sole purpose of having them exiled and disinherited, or worse…

[horizon-verizon]

"let's say rhaenyra becomes queen, and all of the sudden other firstborn daughters start to stand up and demand to be named heirs to their houses ."let's say jace becomes the prince of dragonstone, and suddenly bastards that are older then their legitimate siblings start to demand their rights as well."

You make it sound like women and girls would, in droves and droves, do this. This is more fear-based, anti-progressive speculation at best rather than a material observation of the society & its history itself. even with the boys inheriting brown hair and brown eyes, they all bonded with dragons successfully.

Rhaenyra didn't "demand" to be Queen for Viserys to make her his heir. Viserys decided by himself that she be the next monarch. I don't understand why you believe that girls all over Westeros would or could go up to their father and "demand" to be the next lady over their younger brothers and brothers when Rhaenyra's entire justification was that her father freely and purposely chose her as his heir without her asking or "demanding" for it. If anything, after centuries of men killing, mutilating, or just dispossessing daughters or other women who /would have/have had the seats of ruling lords in Westerois history has anything to go by (Marla Sunderland, Agnes Blackwood, Shiera Blackwood, that unnamed Lannister woman who the Lannisters married to a non-Lannister man and allowed that man to take the Lannister name so he could rule instead of her, Argella Durrandon), women and girls would not do as you speculate they could do because they have lived with the knowledge of exactly what you speak of. that the men of ASoIaF are the main ones shaping and deciding the rules of their society and they could be viciously destroyed if they try to broach that.

Also, since many lords supported Rhaenyra "despite" her sons. I think we have material evidence of lords not believing that their bastards and daughters will start "demanding" that they become considered their heirs over their trueborn sons. Because Rhaenyra's entire justification was that her father chose her. AND she was a trueborn scion, not a bastard. Rhaenyra was fighting for her own claim, and her sons only had a claim over the green boys and their kids through her having a claim over those same people.

Honestly, this argument looks a lot like one argument that pro-life people have against a woman's right to abortion: "If we allow women to have free access to abortion, what's to stop them from being irresponsible and getting pregnant so many times only for them to have multiple abortions, esp late-term ones?"

This last bit is not to accuse anyone of being pro-life, but to point out that the logic is mirroring each other: use a dubious scenario that has no material evidence from the text/reality to induce caution against what could challenge the status quo or the legitimacy of such a thing that challenges the status quo, which in this case is Rhanewyra becoming the ruler by the usual means. Unchallenged and not usurped.

"but there's just no way that a woman & a bastard can inherit peacefully when 3 legitimate sons (with legitimate sons of their own) exist."

It is not speculation that Alicent never achieved what she set out to do in her first attempts, which was to prove Rhaenyra's sons were "legal" bastards to the public and force Viserys to publicly remove them from the succession. Alicent had to do a last-minute measure to usurp Rhneyra, and secretly. So yes, I believe Rhaenyra AND her brothers would be relatively safe if she ascended. Alicent's and the court's own measure of "true" Targness--having hatched a dragon in the cradle--was not even "achieved" by at least 2 out of 4 of Alicent's own children: Aemond & Helana both had to "claim" dragons and out of the "cradle" when they were older.

I would say that much of Westeros politics is denial or hiding things to get your way, as Tywin Lannister or most men in his position would have hidden that Cersei's lids her brothers and not her husbands so that he/they could keep having control the way they have been. Viserys has done the same. Real-life men have done the same for their wives (you can read Eleanor Herman's book Sex with the Queen to learn more about that) for their own benefit. I bet that if you actually went through many lords and their families' secrets (and even many of already-known things that are recorded in AWoIaF), you would find many things that could be many ways they have broken customs or tules to establish their own power or other advantage. The Hightowers do so with Lyonel Hightower and Samantha Tarly.

GRRM (So Spake Martin):

The short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history… which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpretations, and often contradictory.

The medieval world was governed by men, not by laws. You could even make a case that the lords preferred the laws to be vague and contradictory, since that gave them more power. In a tangle like the Hornwood case, ultimately the lord would decide... and if some of the more powerful claimants did not like the decision, it might come down to force of arms.

So why did the greens not leave well enough alone or let Viserys claim Rhaenyra's sons/claim them as his heir' heirs? Not just because they were ultra-religious (the Faith labels bastards as inferior bc they were not born of "honor" or god-blessed unions but of lust, failure of self-restraint, etc.) but because they wanted to use an excuse to usurp her for their own path to power.

It is a narrative & lore FACT, not a speculation, that:

Rhaenyra had been heir and mother to those Velaryon boys for years, yet we hear no other lord or group plan for their downfall before the greens did; why did no one go against her in all that time? [goes into next point]

[to quickly use HotD, as I will later here, for a bit, since it seems you are only thinking of HotD] the Targayens had more dragons than the 3 Conquerors, yet the Conquerors conquered Westeros in under 2 years...I think that if they had stayed united as even HotD's very first episode's narration clues us into ("nothing can tear down the House of the Dragon other than itself"), they would have been able to crush any actual rebellion any group of lords tried to make, and the lords themselves knew that, which is why we have no evidence of any trying to plan against or prepare for anything against Rhaenyra -> even HotD atp contradicts your reasoning

Jace, despite being a bastard in some senses of the term, nevertheless commanded respect from several lords for his death to be seen as a tragedy not just for Rhaenyra but for the potential leadership...Gyldayn even goes on to say that his death was "felt so deeply" and he inspired one of the blacks' greatest allies to fight for Rhaenyra -> all this unsubtly implies they were not against his coming rule after Rhaenyra died, no matter his patrimony=

"i'm saying some of them def won't, and as long as aegon\aemond\daeron lives, there will always be someone advocating for their rights"

...Who?! If--as I mentioned & implied already above--Aegon, Aemond, & Daeron themselves swore off of trying to go for the throne? You can't make a united front of dragonriders do much of anything without being dragonriders yourselves!

How can they "advocate for their rights" when the greens claim that they have no rights to begin with, which is what I am saying they absolutely could have done. No one can force the greens or Aegon/Aemond/Daeron to oppose Rhaneyra without some really extreme measures.

Which is more likely to happen (if the green boys/men DON'T try to go to war with Rhaenyra or usurp her and instead support her rule or turn away anyone who offers to support them instead of Rhaenyra/propose to war with them against her?):

A) they and their dragons crush them

-OR-

B) these hopeful lords who want to war in the greens' names--without the greens actually giving them the permission or ability to---pressuring the green three to go to war

"jace will have to face the exact same situation with his own brothers aegon and viserys"

Even if this is a digression, no Jacaerys has nothing to fear from his own brothers because as I argued, he was already NOT universally despised or disapproved of as a future ruler for people to actually start preparations to rebel against either him or his mother. Again, no one ever proved he wasn't Laenor's son, and yes they still had/wanted to do so to achieve what they wanted (when i said above that Alicent tried).

"also, did we forget how easily rhaenyra offered to have her 10yo brother tortured when she felt like her children were in danger? do you guys really believe that she's above murdering to protect them?"

Not only did HotD make it so that their version of Rhaenyra was the one to say someone on the other side should be tortured or merely questioned rather than how it actually went down in the original story (pic below, from "A Question of Succession") with bkAlicent calling for Lucerys' eye to match Aemond's eyelessness,

but:

in episode 10, Rhaenyra says/shows that she is not willing to go to war or kill he siblings bc she wants to follow Viserys' nonconfrontational habits and avoid war/conflict "for the realm"...it was w hole thing between her & Daemon AND Rhaneys points it out to Corlys

even show!Rhaenyra was clearly trying to get Viserys to focus on the bastard name-calling to avert any more danger to her sons that the word opened up for them at that moment.

The Vhagar-eye incident is much different than Rhaenyra & her sons at a distance from any green, having the support that she had, and clearly stating that she didn't want to go to war bc she wanted to do as Viserys said and look after the realm. Because the trajectory of the situation was directly and quickly heading to a public chastisement and putting more strength to those accusations/"truth" to them being bastards.

This means that, yes, she did not want and was never going to kill her own brothers without provocation from the greens themselves. This is HotD's writing, not F&B's.

Even in F&B, bk!Rhaenyra explicitly states that she will not kill her brothers because that is kinslaying and that she blames Alicent and Otto for their participation in usurping her. That if they left the usurpation behind, she would spare them all ("The Blacks and the Greens"):

Which the show refused to include, but nevertheless, the show still makes it clear show!Rhaenyra would never and did not want to kill her own brothers.

Kinslaying is such a serious crime and taboo in Westerosi culture. Rhaenyra is saying that she would never break this taboo if her brother did not break another taboo first (disobeying a king's command, which was that she be queen). With Rhaenyra already being a woman and having her gender used against her as a reason why she couldn't possibly be a good ruler to some of those lords...why in the world would she ever make things worse for herself (at that particular point) in the eyes of her own supporters plus those who are "neutral" or support the greens by then contradicting herself & displaying even a willingness to kill said kin without proper provocation?! And yes, the usurpation was a proper provocation, as she, again, stated by saying they were going against Viserys' ruling that she be queen.

Never mind that all of this ONLY began because Alicent & the greens usurped Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra did not start the war, and the greens always knew that if they usurped her they were effectively beginning a war. HotD's Alicent may not be aware of this (and this is a knock against her intelligence as most usurpations lead to war in both real history and ASoIaF...we should blame the writers for that, bk!Alicent would never), but everyone else certainly was, esp Otto.

I can't state enough that there was no opposition (or not anywhere close enough if we still, for some inexplicable reason, argue that there was/could be) against Rhaenyra before the greens actually started to plot against her and finally usurped her. There is no evidence of such and in the scenario where they actually made front together, no dragons lord could really stand a chance against them for very long at all.

ok, so i've been getting a lot of "rhaenyra would never kill her siblings" asks recently.

first of all, no one is saying that rhaenyra WANTS to kill her brothers. but there's just no way that a woman & a bastard can inherit peacefully when 3 legitimate sons (with legitimate sons of their own) exist. this is not how westerosi politics work. the men in power wants to keep the men in power, this is the definition of patriarchy. and i'm not saying that's a good thing - because obvs it's not - but that's the truth. westeros is a patriarchal society.

the lords of westeros - the men in power - wants to preserve the existing order. legitimate sons inherit over daughters, bastards can't inherit. it's important to them because their own power is dependent on this very system. let's say rhaenyra becomes queen, and all of the sudden other firstborn daughters start to stand up and demand to be named heirs to their houses . let's say jace becomes the prince of dragonstone, and suddenly bastards that are older then their legitimate siblings start to demand their rights as well. from our modern pov - that's a great thing, but for the lords of westeros that's literally their worst nightmare.

"but a lot of houses supported rhaenyra". true! i'm not saying every lord in westeros will not accept her, i'm saying some of them def won't, and as long as aegon\aemond\daeron lives, there will always be someone advocating for their rights - and that's dangerous for rhaenyra and her family. so yeah, to protect herself and her children she will 100% kill her brothers. i'm not holding it against her - she's obvs going to care more about her children & herself then her brothers.

"but dorne ..." i feel like GRRM has made it abundantly clear that westeros does not want to become like dorne. dornish people are stereotyped and discriminated against - especially dornish women, that are viewed as promiscuous and are constantly oversexualized. westeros becoming like dorne is def not something westerosi men want.

ironically, jace will have to face the exact same situation with his own brothers aegon and viserys, but i digress.

also, did we forget how easily rhaenyra offered to have her 10yo brother tortured when she felt like her children were in danger? do you guys really believe that she's above murdering to protect them?

[elegantwoes]

I love how Alicent and Criston fucking is considered OOC and shit writing, but somehow Alicent choosing Rhaenyra over her own children (even though motherhood is big part of her characterization and a driving force to the choices she makes) is completely fine and considered peak writing because it’s ‘tRaGiC yUrI’.

[imfromthemiddlekingdom]

I’m so upset with the writers of HoTD I’ve gone from mad to disappointed in moments after seeing the new episode. I don’t think I’ve witnessed such inconsistent character depictions ever. Not even the white bread no backbone season 8 Jon snow is as bad as what they did to Alicent and her arc. What happened to the grieving mother who was denied justice so she tried to take it into her own hands? Where’s the desperation in her eyes when she told Aegon that his existence is a challenge and he must defend his siblings from Rhaenyra? Where’s the mother who loves her eldest so much she stepped in front of a dragon for him and told him she loved him in the most heart wrenching of ways?

Her grandson was murdered in his bed by this woman she is now entrusting her daughter and granddaughter to. What is she thinking about entrusting the safety of her daughter to the wife of the person who MURDERED her only son???? Condal and Hess when I catch you istfg.

[wellijustfinnihedoneofthebooks]

Its honestly so funny to me when people talk about ryan condal's "team black bias" and its like yall... i dont think condal cares about the fictional waring factions of incest kingdom... i think he just thinks rhaenyra is his main character and thus warps the world to suit rhaenyra

[idkjustletmescroll]

It's really weird how a lot of people in the got/hotd fandom don't seem to accept how grey grrm's characters are? Idk maybe I'm just on the wrong side of tumblr/tiktok, but...several things can be true at once.

Cersei Lannister can be an abuser, a killer, AND A VICTIM. She can love her children AND have deeply unhealthy relationships with them. Alicent Hightower can resent her children, have unhealthy relationships with them, have no idea how to parent them, and still love them. Rhaenyra can be the rightful heir to the iron throne with good intentions, and still seemingly have no idea how to rule. Viserys can make Rhaenyra his heir and talk about how much he loves Aemma and be a sh*t dad and partner. Sansa Stark can be mean to Arya and also a child whose behavior is reinforced by a guardian (the septa, who she is told to obey and learn from). Joffrey Baratheon can be a sadist who had to die for the good of the realm, and still a child. Robert can be funny and Ned's friend, and a terrible father and husband. Ned and Catelyn can be some of the best parents on either show, love each other and their kids, do everything for each other and their kids, and still have failed to prepare their children for the world they live in. The whole POINT of grrm's characters is that they're not good or evil, they're not black or white, their cruelty has a reason and they are all functioning within an inherently unjust society, and doing the best they can.

[15-lizards]

Just for fun: maybe a show of how both Aemma Arryn and Alicent Hightower would affect the court fashion by being from the Vale and Reach, respectably?

Oooh that sounds fun let’s do it!!

I believe in Burgundian dresses in the Vale supremacy. It just fits the vibe also fur!!! Very important no? Just overall a style that fits that elegant upper class vibe of the Eyrie before the dance, which Aemma grew up in. Big headdresses are the staple of every outfit, especially the hennin cone with a gauzy veil draped around. A very gentle, almost Virginia kind of fashion that Aemma grows up wearing and brings to Kings Landing when she becomes queen

After a while in kings landing, this Eyrie fashion has adapted to the city. The basic cut of the gown is still the same, but seems to be a bit more complex and layered and sluttier. Ostentatious rich women take the idea of that elegant Eyrie fashion and just gild and glitz the shit out of it. OR a woman might downplay the gown and dress simply and just really heighten the look and size of the headdress, making it increasingly impractical (think the mid 1700s in France).

During Alicents early reign, she hasn’t garnered any influence or personal style yet and she’s still a young girl trying her best to get into the good graces of her old fart husband so she probably still resembles Aemma in her clothing. Modest and gentle without all of the grandiosity of the other women of kings landing, because of both the faith at Oldtown and her need to blend in as best she can. Eventually people start following in her footsteps, and more subdued and muted styles become popular, with a natural waist and bust coming back, as well as soft natural coloring

Once Alicent is firmly established, I think she starts to dress for piousness. Long sleeves that don’t billow out, skirts that cover everything and more, natural outline of the body, modest headdresses. And once the war begins this naturally starts to take hold throughout the city, as noblewomen go into mourning and also start to realize the excess they used to have cannot be afforded anymore.

[horizon-verizon]

Alicent is such a pussy ass bitch, “the beacon burns green when House Hightower calls their banner to war,” she wore a green dress to Rhaenyra’s wedding to signal her allegiance to her house over her husband’s and as a call to arms, and since then, she wore GREEN EVERYDAY, but now that the war that she’s been instigating for 16 years pops off, she suddenly wants to wear blue, fuck off to the forest, and pretend like it’s not what she wanted. I truly can’t stand her mosquitamuerta ass.

"mosquitamuerta" -- I searched it up, means someone who 's doing something shady but makes themselves look innocent and not responsible for it.

Yeah, that's my other issue with Alicent. I have said several times how the green dress moment made no sense for several reasons[twitter, this one more about how she would never have chosen that particular dress], Alicent of episodes 6-7 show a "warring" Alicent. It's not just that she would never choose to wear that dress and not for the color, but it's that the writers nullified Alicent's whole arc of her becoming a true direct and rounded threat towards the blacks when we get to the 8th episode.

Or maybe they were forced to nullify it and make nothing of it after episode 7 bc they erroneously positioned the conservative "rebel". Or that it inevitably fell apart.

There is a huge difference b/t bk!Rhaenyra wearing her black dress in clear, broadcasted self-affirming defiance to the woman who is trying to get her removed from her position using her gender against her VS show!Alicent "rebelling" because Rhaenyra refused to endanger herself and tell the truth about her, Cole, & Daemon. Rhaenyra was not complying to those sexist calls made by both fans AND those who had to have been at court & went closer to the queen's party for her to just give up. This is itself a knock against patriarchy.

Whereas with show!Alicent--though yes she is clearly trying to convey she won't try to fit herself into the Targaryen family, work for the royal family's interests more, make herself more "Targ"--it is also true that she ends up still trying to genuinely [key word] trying to make Viserys comfortable, make herself his perfect wife, follow what she thinks was his wishes (and I'm talking about before he died and after episode 5), etc.. She, unlike red-black-dress-bk!Rhaenyra, is still sincerely trying to abide by the patriarchal feudal status quo's principles of wifely obedience/solicitation to punch down on Rhaenyra, the "rebel". Thus, yeah, Alicent's green dress moment just transitions into the downward spiral she vaults herself on.

It would have made way more sense for Alicent to confront Otto, the person who actually ruined her life by pimping her out to Viserys. No, she is in a repressed delusion and probably would never, but that's exactly my point--this moment is supposed to be a clarifying moment where we the viewer/reader see who has been the victim, who the harasser, who the protagonist, who the antagonist, who the beleaguered, who the harasser. Giving that to the woman who will unfairly abuse Rhaenyra for basically not complying with an abusive system as perfectly as she should is self defeating, opposite of what this story is about, and discourages female self assertion through a distortion and using a token woman to do that job for you. Look, it's a woman doing this, and a terribly abused woman, too, she has to be right! Rhaenyra is the one who should have "done her duty" and not lie to Alicent! Meanwhile, Alicent's father is trying to get Rhaenyra removed and Alicent, back in episode 3, did not tell Rhaenyra that Otto is basically forcing her to visit Viserys and become his wife. No, Alicent was telling her to not mind the political plots of the men, or mind men's business when Rhaenyra is heir (and must concern herself w/politics!) AND Otto is one of those Rhaenyra has to watch out for but Alicent is actively preventing her from doing so!! And not even purposefully, which does not make her impressive, but sad. Which isn't fun and a total downgrade from her orig self.

...Plus, Rhaenyra of the show didn't even understand wtf Alicent was doing with the green dress bc on her end she still thinks Alicent doesn't know bc Alicent has not let anyone know what Cole said to her...by contrast, it is likely that bk!Alicent understood Rhaenyra's message in her wearing the black dress at her anniversary.

That moment of episode 5 was peak gaslighting, male gaze, & manipulation.

[horizon-verizon]

"just doesn’t pan out because of the fantasy aspect of the ASOIAF world."

I mean...the green kids had dragons for all's sake! It's enough to intimidate & deter most lords. Rhaenyra was well...there was a much lower chance and likelihood that any lord would try to mess with Alicent's kids before they'd ally themselves with Rhaenyra and back her up. how much more when/if they actually did? There's a reason why we keep saying that the only people who could really bring House Targaryen was itself.

I saw this OG post way back when I first got onto to Tumblr and didn't really know what to make of it bc I know little to none of English history. ASoIaF really puts you onto research, like a good fiction book does.

And I keep saying this to people: where are the signs and evidence that any lord, ANY, were actively plotting against Rhaenyra--which they would have to years or right before she became the queen--in either the book or the show? Who other than the greens?! They had literal years of Rhaenyra being at Dragonstone--before that at court with Alicent trying to get Viserys to name them bastards in front of the court and effectively removing Rhaenyra from the line of succession, but obviously just failing at that, thus her seizing the castle and council after Viserys' death--to plan, plot, etc. against her...but no one did! Why would they start planning after Rhaneyra become Queen and she accrues even more power?

The greens gave a few others, those supporting them who they "recruited" themselves, the way to rebel because those lords saw that they had the greens' dragons by their side and better chance of grasping more power and/or preventing Rhaenyra's rise.

And on another note: just because something hasn't been done before or was been discouraged in the past, even something like girls being kept out of school, doesn't mean that when some people or person begins to flout that by putting girls into school and risking male violence against that means we should never put those girls in school. Someone had to be the first woman on the throne eventually for us to really see any sort of change towards the treatment of women, at least for the precedent for others to refer to and bank on.

Alicent turned on Rhaenyra as soon as she saw Viserys dismiss Otto for demanding he name Aegon as his heir. Such a turntells us more that she was outraged at Viserys refusing to give Aegon's "birthright" more than his safety. Her saying that she fears Daemon killing her kids is just weird, seeing as how Daemon only made fun of her and the kids while he visited Rhaenyra, likely seeing that Rhaenyra was miserable having to live with Alicent and her kids--Alicent would likely have tried to diminish Rhaenyra's presence at court and no one besides her own ladies in waiting and father were there...and her father refused to really castigate and call out Alicent at court. Daemon also proves that he only wants to kill one of the greens' when when of theirs kills one of rhaenyra's children.

Everything that the greens claimed Rhaenyra or Daemon would do to them, they or someone they're using are the ones to actually do it! Aegon is the one to turn the Keep into a "brothel" when he fondles so many servant girls [tg tends to claim he didn't SA them, so even in their own admittance, he makes the Keep into a place of indiscriminate sex...]. He is the one who overruns the Keep AND KL with his bastards. Aegon is the one who threatens to kill Rhaenyra first and at no point does Rhaenyra threaten to kill him unconditionally...she gives him terms stipulating a chance.

She also "forgets" that Aemond was the one to get violent with a green boy first (bk), and he continues a fight he already won in the show. (Refering to how he lost his eye).

I don’t think people understand why Alicent was so bothered by Rhaenyra having illegitimate children as much as she was. Yes, part of it was coming from a place of frustration at Rhaenyra for scoffing at tradition and not honouring her marriage vows, but Alicent’s primary focus was on the politics - and how it put her own children in mortal danger.

Painting: The Execution of Lady Jane Grey

You see, if Rhaenyra had legitimate children with Ser Laenor, then the Greens would have no reason whatsoever to try and replace Rhaenyra as heir to the throne with Aegon. They, in truth, would’ve been usurpers. But as we know, Rhaenyra having bastards not only weakened her own claim to the throne but by it, she has given her enemies a legitimate reason to support Aegon instead of her. Just think about it - nearly every lord in the realm has a bastard of his own. If Rhaenyra puts her own bastards on the throne, it sets a precedent - that bastards can have a claim to a title just as much as legitimate children can. This of course presents a HUGE crisis to the lords who probably have multiple bastards running around, now all potential heirs to his house. Some lords might even have older bastard brothers, brothers who would potentially be better rulers than them if they were trueborn. Brothers who would follow Rhaenyra’s suit and place themselves in positions of great power and usurp their trueborn sibling’s claims. No doubt, this would lead to violence, in-fighting, bloodshed and the potential extinction of houses and bloodlines that go back thousands of years.

So naturally, any lord who would be fearful of this playing out would naturally ally themselves with the trueborn children of House Targaryen - Alicent’s children. Whether the Greens want it or not, Aegon, Helaena, Aemond and Daeron would become unwilling figureheads for rebellions against Rhaenyra. These rebels would rally themselves around Alicent’s children, demand them to be crowned instead of Rhaenyra, and of course, Rhaenyra would have absolutely no choice but to execute her half-siblings, to save herself and her children. Whether Alicent’s children want it or not, they are living, breathing, constant challenges to Rhaenyra’s throne.

It’s the exact predicament Mary I of England faced - a Catholic queen who had just deposed her Protestant cousin, the Lady Jane Grey, Mary had no choice but to order 16 year old Jane’s execution in 1554. Despite having Jane imprisoned, rebels kept on popping up around England, all marching on London to dethrone Mary in Jane’s name, even though Jane herself was oblivious to what was happening because she was behind bars and had already relinquished her crown and declared for Mary. Mary was hoping to restore Catholicism to England and was planning to marry a foreign prince so she could provide England with a Catholic heir - but she knew so long as Jane lived, Mary, her future children and England would never know peace. So she reluctantly signed Jane’s death warrant, causing the death of one of England’s most tragic figures.

This would be the fate of Alicent’s children if Rhaenyra ever ascended the throne. No matter how good willed Queen Rhaenyra would be to her siblings, it wouldn’t last. The minute the first lord lit the beacon of rebellion and openly called Rhaenyra’s sons illegitimate usurpers of Alicent’s trueborn children with no right to the throne, Alicent’s children would’ve been executed. There’s absolutely no way Rhaenyra would ever chose Aegon, Helaena, Aemond and Daeron’s lives over her own living children - what mother would?