#alfred trying to get Batman killed and then being disappointed

[zachweinersmith]

Poor guy can’t catch a break. http://smbc-comics.com/comic/perch

[martyrbat]

grimm – batman: legends of the dark knight #149

[ID: a panel sequence of young Dick Grayson just two months after his parents' murders. He's sulking at the dining table in the grandiose Wayne Manor. The dinner is taking place in front of a lit fireplace that causes the entire room to have a soft, bronze glow to it. The table itself is long and decorated and Bruce Wayne is sitting on the opposite end of it. Alfred Pennyworth prompts, “More mashed potatoes, Master Dick—?” But Dick is too busy thinking about a young criminal he ran into when he snuck out earlier. He quietly mutters the taunt she told him, “‘Spoiled brat in a circus suit’—?” Alfred asks, “Was that a yes or a no?” The pouting child brusquely tells him, ”no,” which causes the butler to clear his throat. Dick begrudgingly corrects himself, “No thank you, Alfred.” Alfred responds, “As you wish, Master Dick.”

But Dick is already uttering another taunt under his breath, “‘Lap of luxury’!” Bruce leans forward slightly and asks if everything is okay but Dick dismisses his concern. He excuses, “I'm... I'm not very hungry, Bruce. Is it okay if I go to my room?” Despite his obvious qualms, Bruce awkwardly smiles and replies, “Uh... Of course. Certainly.” Dick gets up as Alfred tells him the food will be in the refrigerator if he gets hungry later but Dick just ‘uh-huh’s him as he walks away. With the child upstairs, Bruce immediately stands up and paces. He stops in front of the fireplace and stares into the blaze as he monologues his worries, “Maybe this was a mistake. What in the world made me think I could raise a boy? I don't know the first thing about it! I've always been a loner! I don't have the knowledge... or the disposition... to make this work.” Alfred wryly asks, “Are you addressing the fireplace, Sir—or me?” But Bruce stresses his demur without looking at him, “His parents are dead, Alfred! What gives me the temerity to believe I can replace them in his life?”

Alfred solemnly reassures, “I asked myself the same questions once. What in the world did a butler know about raising a young man who'd just lost the two people he loved most in the world? But strangely enough, Sir—I adapted. I learned. I learned because I wanted to... Because I cared. And... despite some difficulties along the way—I think the young man in question turned out splendidly. And I think Master Dick will too.” Bruce doesn't say anything but he his eyes closed in thought as Alfred talks before looking at him with a soft smile. He straightens his posture when Alfred finishes and puts his hand on his shoulder, silently grateful for the man's fatherly reassurance and support once again. END ID]

[meara-eldestofthemall]

Gee, thanks DC! You Just Turned Bruce Into An Irredeemable Ass.

So, at the end of Gotham War Bruce has officially lost everything. Alfred is still dead, Selina is "presumed dead" and Bruce is both financially and morally broke. Why, you may ask, is Bruce so much worse off this time? Let me count the ways.

He preformed a psychic lobotomy on Jason

The "it's for your own good" excuse only makes the mental rape undertaken by Jason's own father that much more heinous.

Just when you think Bruce can't sink any lower he does. When Dick recognizes that Bruce has lost it, he attempts to use a failsafe disconnect that Bruce himself built into the system. How does Nightwing get thanked for that? Well that brings us to number two on the list.

Batman attacks up his eldest son for doing what he's supposed to do when Batman has gone rouge.

Bruce beats him up because nothing proves you are in control of your sanity like hitting your children. While Dick is holding back, Bruce does no such thing. He hits Nightwing hard enough to send him flying. It could have gotten even worse if Tim hadn't shown up.

Tim arrives and attempts to talk some sense into Batman.

Tim tries to talk Bruce down. It doesn't go well. When Robin is trying to help, as he always does, Batman uses the attempt to reason with him to put the smack down on his son. Bruce could have killed Tim but apparently feels no remorse or guilt.

If there was any teeny tiny little doubt that Bruce will not win the Father of The Year award in 2023 it died a horrible screaming death when Batman abandons his children to potential arrest. Yes, he left a batarang for Dick and Tim but any glimer of possible hope associated with that action was instantly extinguished by Damian's reaction to Batman's callous betrayal.

Bruce abandons Damian.

Look at Dami; he's devastated. Since he came into Bruce's life, Damian has struggled with feelings that he can never earn his father's love and respect. Well, that negative self-image was reinforced in way that may never be repairable. Bruce just utterly destroyed a 13 year old child because of his inability to feel any kind of empathy.

And how does this all end? The best part is that Bruce takes all of his parental responsibilities and dumps them onto Dick.

Thank you Chip Zdarsky and Trini Howard. You've taken Batman from being an edgy anti-hero and made him into a callous monster. Part of me hopes that Bruce never comes back because he doesn't deserve his family.

The only positive aspect in this convoluted mess is that Damian and Tim will be far better off with Dick than with Bruce. Yes, Tim is mostly independent but he still needs guidance (particularly since Tim's first instinct is to try and save Bruce). Damian is essentially Dick's son emotionally anyway so this might help to sustain the positive character growth we've seen in him as of late.

The point of this rant is to wonder what on earth DC thinks they're doing. This story arc has been pure character destruction as far as Bruce is concerned. It's bad storytelling too; rushed, frenetic and massively disappointing.

Hasn't the popularity of Good Dad Bruce in Wayne Family Adventures proved that fans are tired of Bruce being a dark depressed and brooding edge lord? We all accept that Batman is a character with deeeeep issues who is in desperate need of therapy. I, however, draw the line at Bruce being an abusive a**hole.

In years to come when fans wonder when Batman jumped the shark, this is the plot line they'll point to.

[confused-wanderer]

I know we all talk about Jason finding out Dick killed the Joker from Tim or one of the other batfam members, but what if:

One day he’s searching for blackmail material on a member just for fun and knows Damian keeps a list of all of them so he backs into the files and realised the folder with the heaviest inscription to unlock is one labelled “Contingencies”.

He opens it to find every single person in their family is on there and starts surfing through them. When he sees Tim’s he freezes, mentally filing away some horrific details for checking up on him later, Jason’s list is impressive but not much he didn’t expect…still concerned how he got the evidence though.

His fingers hesitate over Batman’s, and after thinking screw it what the hell clicks on it just to realise most of them are psychological, and had to do with Jason. One video showed Bruce as Jason remembered him from his robin days. He was pacing furiously in the Manor, tugging on his pocket square which for him was a high level of distress, before he went upstairs - to Jason’s room when he stayed there - and looked in. The change was sudden, Bruce’s shoulders sagged and his face grew into one of fondness, one he’d rarely seen before.

“I cant help it Alfred.. Scarecrow’s toxin.. I KNOW it isn’t real but.. I can’t stop thinking about it. What if -“ and Jason can’t really believe his ears, that was a fucking quiver in his voice- “What if one day it comes true?” “What was your worst fear Master Bruce?”.

“Jason..” and Jason flinches. “I.. I saw him die, and I was powerless. I cant lose him Alfred. I just cant.”

The recording ends, and it takes a while for Jason to realise he can’t breathe. He sends the file to himself and laughs bitterly, remembering what the fear toxin had shown him. Lucifer. It had shown him falling from Bruce’s grace, being his greatest disappointment. “Guess we both failed each other didnt we old man?”

After what feels like forever, when he can feel his fingers stop shaking his eyes drift over to Dicks.

Damian sure does adore him, wonder what the brats got in store for him.

Most of them were things he was sure Dick could handle, until a glitched file appeared which read “for EXTREME situations only.”

When he heard Joker laugh, Jason could’ve sworn he was in the cave. “Hello there old friend! Aww why the long face?”

Dick wasn’t facing the camera, but the sheer aura of destruction radiating off of him was enough for Jason to know Joker was in danger. Judging by his outfit and well- hair- this must’ve been years ago.

“Didn’t you like my..ah.. gift? It was quite the blast I hear!”

Dicks fists clenched. His usual smile was gone, replaced by a hatred so vile it could’ve rivalled batman’s glare. It was so odd.. seeing him so pissed.

“Well that’s what happens.. when birds get hit. They never see what’s right in front of them and then BAM!”

As his laughter rang out Jason heard Dick whisper something. It was so soft, quieter than he’d ever heard him and he found himself leaning forward.

“What’s that? How long he lasted? Well I counted everytime he screamed when I broke his bones so-“

“SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP!”

Jason stumbled back, nearly falling to the floor himself. Dicks voice was thundering, echoing across the cave.

What the hell had happened? Why was Dick so mad? Why wasn’t he smiling?

“You..killed him.”

And that’s when it hit Jason. Oh. This was after he’d died.

The joker was trying to say something, but Jason couldn’t hear him. All he could focus on was how Dick was behaving, how he was walking upto Joker. Jason had seen that before.

The intent to kill.

SLAM

The fight was brutal, and blood flew everywhere, mixed with the laughter and cries of the Joker while Dick yelled, YELLED so loudly he could’ve sworn the cave was shaking before the sound of a wet snap ricocheted and Dick went limp.

No.. no no no no.

He watched in horror as Dick stood up, drenched in blood and heaving. Dick had gone- no BEATEN- the joker for Jason.

But the longer he looked, the more he felt the Lazarus pit burning inside him.

The joker wasn’t moving.

Dick walked away, and in the shadows, with bloody fists and face of hatred could not see him as the Dick he knew.

“Dead.”

He looked up to hear Dick whisper to the thundering sky outside.

“I killed him Jason. The joker is dead. Rest in peace little wing.”

Jason’s feet gave out under him, and he crashed to the ground gasping for breath.

Never in his wildest dreams had he thought he had been avenged.

Never did he even think that Dick had only killed once… and only for him.

Part two of related series where Jason finds out Bruce nearly killed the Joker:

[thebibliosphere]

Tim immediately jumping to murder is why I think Tim should be in the labrynth. Comic!Tim is always one bad day away from becoming a supervillain, but the bad day is key

Listen, the Labyrinth level is harrowing for all of them (watching Dick's parents plummet to the ground over and over because I kept fucking up the trap was excruciating) but Tim, oh god, Tim.

He's so fucking young in this game.

He's not a child characterized as an adult. He's a super smart sixteen-year-old kid trying to act like an adult and full of grief and rage, and while Dick might be struggling with living up to being Batman, Tim's head is just a constant mantra of "not good enough, not good enough, not good enough. Bruce only took you on because he needed a replacement for Jason. And look at you, you couldn't even do that right. Batman is dead"

And because he's in the Labyrinth, it's not his own voice he's hearing.

It's Bruce.

It's Bruce telling him he's not good enough over and over. That he's a disappointment to the mantle of Robin. That Bruce should have never trained him. That it's Tim's fault Bruce is dead because Robin failed to protect Batman.

And then he finds out it's the Court of Owls messing with his head. That they've engineered this whole thing using some mega strain of fear gas while they're making him run through an obstacle course designed to trigger all these worst fears. Making him hallucinate Bruce dying in front of him. That he's being manipulated into reliving his worst fears over and over, and not even dying makes it end because they won't let him die. He just keeps waking up on the slab like some fucked up version of Ground Hog Day with spinning knives and the sound of your mentor telling you all the ways you're not good enough.

Frankly, the Cout of Owls is lucky Tim climbed out of that hole and immediately called Alfred (and oh GOD, the way he haltingly tells Alfred in the smallest voice that he wants to come home because he's a 'little beaten up' aaaah killing, stabbing, biting) because my first instinct on getting him out there was to call down an orbital strike from the Watchtower.

He's hooked into the system.

He could do it.

Say 'hoo' mother fuckers. Say 'hoo' one more time.

[brucewaynehater101]

Tim who had the watchtower/super hero substitute treehouse built so Batman can have relatively healthy socialization also eggs on the baking rivalry that develops between Alfred and Ma Kent as part of his multi step plan to direct Batman towards developing a wider social circle than Superman who, again, Tim does not fully approve of as a good influence on Batman. He appreciates that Batman shouldn't kill and that Superman helped that much but otherwise is unimpressed with the kryptonian. Basically the only things Superman could do to make it up to Tim would be first, sincerely apologizing to Kon accompanied by actively being better and second lobotomizing the Joker. Unfortunately Superman has yet to realize he needs to make up anything to Tim. Thus Ma Kent will continue to receive cook books and high end baking supplies from anonymous sources as well as strategic praise and comparisons to Alfred's baking from various heroes and Alfred will receive similar praise and criticism and Bruce and Clark will both receive uncomfortable questions from both sides about which pie or cake or cookie he liked better.

Tim having monthly tea parties with Queen Hippolyta in a neutral location to talk about how Diana is doing, again as part of the plan for Bruce to have good social influences in his life. Cassie helped him arrange it. Queen Hippolyta mothers Tim a bit because she's experiencing a little empty nest syndrome and while Tim is a boy, he's very polite and didn't invade her home and brings treats he either bought or made himself (he's not dragging Hippolyta into the baking beef). Tim reacts better to this than he would if someone attempted to act fatherly to him as she does so in small doses and in a manner that is slightly softer than Janet and is thus nostalgic.

Tim will find the parental figures in the JLA's lives and he will make connections. He is trying very hard not to be Bruce's entire (functioning) support system.

Ma Kent and Alfred should have a very fierce rivalry over food. The competition should be intense, yet they still care about one another. They'll switch in seconds from casually chatting about their sons and gardening to very pointed insults about the other's cooking.

Tim dragging Bruce's friends' parents into that man's support circle is hilarious and amazing. He will ensure that Batman will be up against crowds of friends and their parents the next time he decides to go on another crime-fighting bender.

Also, it could be healthy overall for in-the-know parents of heroes to have their own support group. They can get advice and comfort from others. Yes, some of the parents aren't exactly "civilians," but the group is geared towards parents of first generation "heroes," (though other generations of parents of heroes are welcome as well). There are a lot of nuances, laws, and issues pertaining to being a public hero.

Tim should have beef with Superman. Let that teen continually give the man glares of disappointment and disproval at the hero's back (which Clark feels but can't pinpoint the origin), and then his face smooths back to neutral whenever the man looks at him. Tim is a professional, after all. I think Jason and Tim could bond over this when they start getting along.

[zahri-melitor]

Thoughts on the different ways Tim and Dick relate to Bruce in self-isolation mode and Batman going off the rails. Because they BOTH have a lot of experience with both situations, but react differently to it.

It’s a reflection on the observation that Dick will walk out on Bruce when he’s in grimdark mode while Tim will cling closer to try and rein him in; while as soon as someone accuses Bruce of killing, Dick refuses to believe it but Tim will be like ‘we have to seriously consider the result if he did’.

Tl;dr they are the only two Robins/ex-Robins with such deep experience with this because they’re the only two who have been left on their own to deal with a Batman being criminally reckless. Jason’s period as Robin somehow never scored a go-around of Bruce going into self-hatred mode (possibly because the amount of stories written about Jason’s period of Robin is realistically under a year’s worth, I don’t care that some timelines suggest he might have been in the costume as much as 2.5 years, there isn’t anywhere near the material for that) and Damian has always, ALWAYS had Dick and/or Tim available to defuse and redirect Bruce, and they both have patented strategies to deal with this.

While Dick acted as a (largely unspecified) handbrake on Bruce up until the grand “You’re Fired!/I Quit!” contretemps, and then developed the far more personally protective strategy of just walking away and letting Bruce deal with it on his own, as they’re both adults and he should not be required to act as emotional regulation for a grown adult. There’s not a lot of ON PANEL discussion of this, between 99% of their period as Batman and Robin being pre-Crisis and the flashbacks we’ve had since then tending to revolve around a few set pieces. But there’s a reason that Bruce describes Dick as his greatest achievement and the most important part of him being Batman. Not disappointing Dick functioned as the brake up until Dick became an adult.

HOWEVER. The only reason Dick was able to get away with his brand new strategy is not that Bruce became better at regulating his own emotions (it is to laugh). Oh no. Alfred and then particularly Tim stepped in to pick up the slack, and pretty much have never stopped since then.

Tim became Robin specifically to stop Batman going off the rails. “Batman needs a Robin”. He saw the violence and he stepped in to find a way to stop it. And when Dick refused to help out, Tim took on the role of emotional regulation buddy and essentially never stopped.

Plus, if Tim did not think the position was important, Knightfall reinforced it in the worst possible way. The arc of Knightfall, for Tim: Bruce pushes Tim away and becomes more exhausted. Tim is assigned to teach JPV how to be a hero. Bruce, trying to do too much on his own, gets his back broken. Bruce assigns Tim to making sure JPV functions as Batman. (Dick turns up for 3 pages to complain that he did not get the mantle and Tim, dealing with Bruce being injured and on a quest, his dad being kidnapped, and the realisation that Azbats is going off the rails ON HIS ASSIGNED WATCH, doesn’t have time to do anything else but sigh and go ‘yeah you’d be better but Bruce set it up this way’). Azbats locks Tim out of the cave. Tim continues to Robin his way around the edges trying to clean up Azbats going off the rails. JPV kills a Rogue and leaves a victim to die. Bruce comes back, deals with Azbats, then disappears off again, giving the mantle to Dick this time. Tim and the rest of us get to experience Prodigal. Bruce comes back again and within no time at all Tim is flinging himself on top of Harvey Bullock to protect him during a shootout in Troika.

Tim came out of Knightfall CONVINCED that his most important job as Robin was to act as emotional regulator. Especially since Alfred quit at this point. “What does a Batman who kills look like” is not an academic question to Tim. It’s not even a “well I’ve seen other timelines” thing for him. Tim has literally been the assigned Robin to a Batman who ended up killing and the death occurred, in part, because Robin couldn’t hold him back.

It’s also notable to me that that one time Tim HAS tried Dick’s “let him deal with it himself” strategy, that was the run of ‘Tec and Batman between Officer Down and Bruce Wayne: Murderer. Alfred had quit again (and was living with Tim at Brentwood, while Bruce refused to go near Alfred). Tim was ignoring Bruce because he told Steph Tim’s identity. Bruce literally only had Sasha Bordeaux (and Steph for a bit) as assistance. And what happened? Bruce ended up accused of murder and was arguably off the rails enough that he COULD have done it, given how much he wasn’t talking to anyone.

Tim has never ever risked that again. He was only able to quit following his 16th birthday for a couple of days before he went straight back to Bruce, not even expecting an apology. Following War Games, War Games, when Tim’s so heartbroken and tired he has to leave Gotham and moves to Bludhaven, Tim is still talking to Bruce and seeing him regularly, because Bruce is all by himself in Gotham again and Tim knows that’s a recipe for him falling off the rails again.

This is part of what I think is at the heart of the debate between Dick and Tim over “growing up and out of being Robin and finding your own identity”. Dick is convinced that you can safely leave Bruce to his bullshit when he’s going off the rails, because Dick was able to walk out and it went fine (Bruce found himself Jason and was just fine…right up until Jason died, but they all got past that time! Bruce doesn’t need this level of coddling! You cannot find who you are apart from Bruce unless you give yourself that separation!), while when Tim tried, Bruce got accused of murder and decided he was going to abandon the whole identity of “Bruce Wayne” until he got his ass kicked by enough family members over how stupid he was being. Tim doesn’t think it’s safe. Tim’s seen Batman and seen Bruce ‘die’ too many times when he needed rescue.

Tim knows Alfred won’t always step up to the role. He’s quit twice and is now dead. Tim knows Dick refuses to act as an emotional regulator for Bruce anymore. Tim simply doesn’t TRUST anyone else with the role as they’ve never had to actively deal with it on their own, and being part of the bigger network is very different to being The One.

And I think this is part of why Tim cannot move himself on. He doesn’t trust Bruce to cope. Even if there are approximately a dozen other Bat folk around to step in if Bruce starts his self-isolation cycle again. Because too many of them historically have gone “well screw you too” when Bruce started the cycle, and the 13 year old kid who talked Batman down from being too violent with criminals, and the 14 year old kid who was left to control a Batman experiencing religious psychosis and got strangled in the process, and the 15 year old kid who hung off Nightwing’s arm to stop him punching the Joker one more time, who left Batman to his own devices only for him to be framed for murder and refuse to try and get out of it, and the 16 year old kid who realised if he quit and left Bruce would never speak to him again so he swallowed it down and reached out again and again and again even as he was hurting, in the worst year of his life, and the 17 year old kid who refused to believe Bruce could be dead and went to find him, damn the consequences to himself? That kid cannot walk away because he KNOWS THE PRICE and he knows what it costs to pay it and he doesn’t trust anyone else to do so.

(yes, Tim should be allowed to have an arc to move away from this dynamic. But I understand why he can’t, and DC will have to have someone ELSE take over the role or commit to writing ‘Batman goes off the rails’ plots where Bruce provides his OWN emotional regulation that pulls him back ahahahahahaha like that will occur)

[thenixkat]

Decided to look up the comics that Scarab (lady assassin) firs showed up

also Tim Drake had parents, that were around for a while b4 they got killed off. Apparently, he was hiding the superhero thing from them

Bruce beating Tim's ass in training

and high expectations

apparently, Bruce is upset with Tim for killing someone huh

wow. nice parenting. Maybe Tim needs some therapy for having killed someone instead of his ass beaten and held to very strict expectations

ah yes fire the child sidekick when they're going through it

so batman is a bad parent

i doubt bruce is a good boss at wayne tech if he's like this when an employee disappoints him by going through shit

and Tim's gonna get it when he gets home from lying to his parents

damn Drake parents

just the downsides of not telling yer parents shit

of course the guy that tim thinks he killed is still alive and plotting

what the fuck is up with the ladies in the Batfam being down with hurting their partners?

if Tim wants to retire? let him? just cause you'd rather be on the field doesnt mean he's not going through it believing he killed a man

Tim has to stay a hero, even though his heart isnt in it rn which could lead to him getting hurt or killed or failing to save the day, b/c he saved the day and helped people and most people dont have the temperament or skill to be superheroes

Mr. Drake found Tim's stache

Mr. Drake pulled up at Bruce's house

apparently, they used to be neighbors, the Drakes fell on some hard times i guess

Alfred dont try to gaslight this man when youve been helping endanger his child

Mr. Drake is not having that shit. Good on him for being pissed off at the adults who's been endangering his child

wow, Mr. Drake decided to pull up on Bruce with a gun for endangering his child. Good on him. Gods below, imagine if that's how Batman died? The parent of one of his child sidekicks decides to take him to task on the child endangerment.

haha! Pull the trigger Mr. Drake! End Batman's miserable fucking life!

damnit Mr. Drake you waited too long to pull the trigger

man imagine if Bruce ever had like lasting consequences for the child endangerment that just fucking takes him out/he has to actively deal with it instead of brooding and moving on. Like clearly the dead child as of this comic wasnt enough

also yeah, makes sense that Batman would have a bad rep with common people. His costume is intent to scare and he frequently maims and cripples people

expose his ass mr. Drake!

Bruce really goes out his way to put in insults talking to this kid

someone is grounded

Tim you are literally a child and Bruce is the adult, it doesnt matter if you volunteered Batman had no right to take you up on the offer. Given the minor without parental permission

Bruce that is not a fucking excuse for child endangerment. You could literally go out and get an adult to be yer sidekick or replacement…only adults arent as moldable and controllable as kids huh?

also Bruce, its not a good look to yell at the child who's not yours that you've been endangering infront of his parent

Bruce can't even hold back his shitty parenting to look less awful infront of Mr. Drake

the war

the war against… crime is that fucking serious

Mr. Drake you should still expose Batman b/c fuck him. And also demand Batman offer some fucking compensation for all this

yeah that makes sense. Mr. Drake should still demand payment for all the fucking child labor

[howlsmovingmind]

I used to love Superheroes when I was a kid. I loved Spiderman, the X-men, the Hulk, Captain America, Superman, and even Iron Man. I loved the cartoons and the movies. I loved what they stood for. I even loved stuff like Transformers (mostly because I had a massive crush on Megan Fox when I was like 5) and Star Wars.

Being such an imaginative child, I loved to dress up and play pretend as these characters. My brother had an Iron Man toy that I played with endlessly. I used to try to climb up walls or swing by ropes so that I could be like Peter Parker. I had Luke’s lightsaber when I was maybe 4 or 5 and I would practice with it all the time.

I believed in these characters. I loved how they chose to do what was right and did their best to help others. They were smart, courageous, and able.

As I got older though, my love of these superheroes dwindled. I thought they were harsh, destructive, and crass. A money grab that reenforced military propaganda and toxic gender roles for both sexes. Men and women in tight suits, inadequate communication, convoluted plots. And for what? Just to be a show of power? Violence? Exercising one’s own skewed view of justice?

I ended up despising the heroes I grew up loving. I hated their hatred. Their stoic personalities and their inability to truly fix anything. I hated the unnecessary destruction and violence. I hated how powerless they truly were. I hated their imperfection and the way they were so human, no matter how much they tried to be more than what they were.

I especially hated heroes like Batman.

Batman is a playboy billionaire who fights those who are victims. Victims of the system, of abuse, or who are severely mentally ill. The Joker is the only one you can really argue is a true villain, through and through. Simply an agent of chaos who wants the world to burn (if Alfred Pennyworth in the Dark Knight is to be believed).

Bruce Wayne’s parents were killed in front of him at 10 years old. And what he decides to do with all his fame and wealth and trauma is go after criminals with fancy gadgets and beat them within inches of their lives? Put them in a crumbling asylum where they are tortured and abused?

WHAT?

And the thing about Alfred is that he is the poster child for the military. I love Alfred as a concept, but as an actual character with his morals, I’ve learned that I don’t actually like him.

The Batman story and comics advocate for the justice system, not choosing who gets to live and die, trusting your police officers, and rehabilitation for villains and criminals. That sounds incredible! But the way it’s executed does none of that.

And if you take into account that the Joker is most likely to be “The Oscar Wilde Sort”, or pretty damn gay, the worse it gets. Because he’s just trying to create chaos! Corrupt your children! Crime will rule the streets if he is allowed to run wild!

Sound familiar?

Superheroes had disappointed me. The stories that used to inspire me now made me lose faith in how we view the world and how we view the disenfranchised or those who are “othered”. How we view the homeless, poor, sick, disabled, mentally ill, queer, non-white people of the world.

These characters and stories were written decades ago, when that was the narrative they were trying to push. It makes sense why these stories look like this. But we can explore these stories in a different way, and they will still resemble the original material. Telltale Batman did a great job of that. I think it was a great way to explore the darker themes that we see within Batman and make a more realistic version of his story.

The villains were victims of the elite, the government, domestic abuse, mental illness, death, and grief. They explore Bruce Wayne’s parentage and how they would have accumulated their enormous wealth without push back. The corruption of the government and branches of the police and special forces. How hard it is to truly balance justice and bias. It’s the best way to write the Batman story, in my opinion.

It’s the best way to write a superhero story, period.

We are only human, at the end of the day. We aren’t perfect, and neither are these heroes. We can only do so much. So, with what we can do, I think we should be kind.

Just an end of post disclaimer: I am aware that The Batman villains are murderers and are genuinely hurting those around them in the story. They are genuinely dangerous villains. Okay, thank you.

Criminally Other,

Howl

[moonlit-imagines]

can we talk about how disappointing the titans show is? like dont get me wrong i watched every single episode obsessively and im rewatching it right now but i honestly think theres so much wasted potential, especially when it went from a dcuniverse original to an hbomax original (after s2)

heavy opinions under the cut (feel free to comment i would love to discuss)

rose and jerichos storyline just completely disappeared. like where did they go. i miss them they were my faves

season 3 rushed right into the red hood storyline and they rushed it and the characterization was awful. jason starts making anti-fear toxin with scarecrow, gets killed by joker, gets resurrected a day later, bruce immediately KILLS joker and runs away, jason comes back as red hood and immediately takes over the underworld, then decides to kill his former teammate and targets all of them like a cold blooded killer? like this storyline goes against everything that storyline was originally intended for. jason was supposed to be dead for a few YEARS, and when he comes back hes furious because the joker is still ALIVE and theres a NEW ROBIN that he feels REPLACED HIM. he doesn’t just go on a murder spree for funsies and his progress takes time but bc red hood is popular they saw dollar signs and decided to do it immediately (idk i dont really think curran was a good red hood either pls dont hate me for that hes just too fuckboy and not rugged enough and that was my other gripe with this storyline is that it just did not work)

the brother blood storyline was corny. idk what else to say about ot besides that. rachel has a brother, oh hes evil, oh hes gonna take over the world. oh no how will we ever recover. oh he programmed a mobile game to further his evil plans. jesus christ give me a break

bald!conner was corny too. its like conner only has 2 sides and its superman and lex and he just switches between them it was silly. im all for exploring conner being angsty but what do you mean he burned off his hair to look like lex and helped brother blood and then came to his senses are yall fr

dick’s manic ass getting arrested and then breaking out of prison and no one ever coming to look for an escaped felon is so funny to me

writing out certain characters was so forced and annoying hank and dawn and rose and jericho and whoever else im missing

specifically a scene in season 3 while gar is doing the dishes at wayne manor and says “where’s alfred when you need him?” when it was established alfred had died some years ago and gar had never met him is actually kind of a wack thing to say

bruce trying to kill himself by burning building is kind of ooc

also tim going to jason in season 4 was strange considering jason tried to kill the titans like less than a year prior and then hes just fine after i would be very scared to do that idk

they REALLY wanted to make dick batman instead of bruce being batman. i get they’re so similar but goddamn just let him be nightwing

also all the age stuff in this was weird. why is bruce so old. why did dick stay robin so long. why did jason become robin at such an older age (i know why its for audience pleasure…) but then they made rachel and gar babies idk dude its an odd phenomenon

final point: if my oc were in titans it could have been 10000% better

pls dont hate me i needed to rant about this also totally comment ur thoughts too. obviously i love titans (have you SEEN my masterlist) but damn if i cant critique the shit out of it

[mydarlingbat]

THE RATING OF TEN COMICS #3

Batman 221 It's about a villain who turn harmless animals into predators and raving beast. He also plans to use this on humans. The serum of course. When he's about to inject it into someone. Batman arrives to stop him, but by them being disturbed. His wife stabs him with the syringe, announcing He would be her champion. He then becomes enormous, and slaps her, eventually killing her from the impact. Batman battles with the enormous guy otto for a little while, however both wound up dying in the end. Batman saves the day. 4 out of 10

Batman #222 a band of musicians arrives. Batman and Robin has suspicion about one of them, but in the end they find out the whole band has actually died on a plane clash, and they all are look alikes. Who had a little plastic surgery and speech therapy and voice training. The man admits he didn't want to disappoint the fans. In the end they still wound up singing for the fans. 9 out of 10

Batman #223 look it's a bunch of golden age comics thrown together. I didn't read it, because i don't plan on reading the golden age now.

Batman #224 Batman is heartbroken by the death of a jazz player he used to listens to. Batman goes to New Orleans to find the murderer, but meets up with Maxwell dill, a close friend to the Jazz player blind buddy. The killer is actually the enormous beast Batman fought earlier in the comic, but he pretends he subjected to a wheelchair for the rest of his life. His lower face is always hidden. At the end of the comic Batman stops him for once and for all. 6 out of 10

Batman #225 Jonah jory is dying from a illness, and he hates the Batman for some reason. So one day he makes a decision to set up the Batman. He pays a couple thugs cash to dress up as the Batman. Prior to this one buys a gun, and the other stands on the rooftop by the window where the man's has taken his life. When in reality Jonah took his own life. This leads to them believing Batman has pulled the trigger, although Batman convinces everyone by showing them it'd have been impossible for him to do it this way. 7 out of 10

Batman #226 Basically it's about a man who tries to stop Batman from stopping the blast, along with that, the man thinks Batman set the fuse. His sight is burr, so he wrestle with the Batman, and Batman's trying to stop the blast. Now the blind man believes Batman threw something at his eyes, which is hardly the case, however Batman can't see either. The doctor gives the man's eyes on his fingers, which is why he's call the ten eye guy. It's not much more to this story to be honest. Batman does slowly gain his sight back, while the ten eye guy wants revenge on Batman for making him into this freak. 6 out 10

Batman #227 Daphine is back in town. She writes Alfred a letter, letting him know she accepted to be a teacher and work with children, however this is just to lead her in a trap, so they can sacrifice her to a demon. Batman does eventually saves her, and falls in love with a spirit I believe. Who tells him she can't be with him in so many words. Bruce cries at the end of the comic. 6 out of 10

Batman #228 a bunch of golden age comics thrown in our faces once again. 3 out of 10

Batman #229 A group of people who call themselves the futurtrains who kidnapped Stephen, because they believe he's one of them. Now let's get one thing straight. Theses people are absolutely nuts, but it's so funny too. Batman is stunned by the things they're doing. It's just really funny to be honest, but anyways, Batman meet up with Stephen's wife, which leads him to the place. Batman saves Stephen and fights the futurtrains. This catches the boss attention. She now believes Batman is one of them. At the end Batman betrays them. 8 out of 10

Batman #230 It's about a bomb, and they all thinks it's a bunch of men, but it's really a women behind murders. It's not really much to the issue.. 3 out of 10

[navree]

Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere else here but which are your favorite Jason Todd comic book runs?

Honestly, probably any of his stuff from when he was Robin in the 80s, I love Robin!Jason and he gets so frequently mischaracterized not just by the fandom but literally by modern writers within DC canon that someone needs to stick up for the little guy. I also include For The Man Who Has Everything in that because there's something very Good about little twelve year old Jason being the one who saves Batman from the Black Mercy, Superman from Mongol, and literally defeats Mongol in the process, I wish more people remembered that.

For Red Hood Jason, I hate to be a disappointment but I don't really keep up with modern DC because it pisses me off so egregiously (I tried guys, I did, but Gotham War is the last fucking straw, someone call me when they're sort of back to normal because what the fuck do you mean Bruce doesn't have a hand anymore???). So for Red Hood Jason, I tend to stick to Under the Red Hood, it's a solid story and has some great individual moments and I think it gives some solid characterization to a new iteration of Jason (that following stories immediately forgot but that's because DC didn't know what the fuck to do with Jason).

And for individual stories that have Jason in them, I wish I could remember the name and issue, but the book where Jason kidnaps Mia Dearden is great, I'm never not thinking about it, and Jason has a great moment during that whole arc where Kate Kane kills Clayface (I think it's Batman #951 or #967 but the number could be wrong, I just know that it's in the 900s). Also, it's not canon and I don't really care for the characterization or artwork, but Gotham Knights: Gilded City #5 had a moment about Jason that is simultaneously heartwrenching and also hysterically funny (both Jason and Tim are in trouble and Bruce is trying to figure out who to get to first and, upon being told by Alfred that Jason can handle himself and Tim is arguably in more danger, proceeds to ignore all of that and monologue about how he needs to go halfway around the world to get Jason because he's suffered too much already and he doesn't think either the family or he specifically could survive losing him again, which is very emotional but also sends me into fucking fits because he really just bowled over the fact that Jason could be fine and Tim might need him more without a second thought, it makes me so grateful my parents only had two kids and I'm the eldest so that I never had to witness the parenting of a middle child).

[bigfan-fanfic]

I like to think that eventually Bruce kills the joker in a way that makes the joker leave this world dissatisfied by the way batman kills him

I just imagine him coming back one night taking off the batman armor and burning it then turning around and burying his face in batdads chest continously apologizing for everything and until his brain can't even remember what he's apologizing for but he's so guilty and sorry and just wants to make it up to everyone to batdad to dick to Tim to jason to damian to Alfred to Gotham

I feel like he just steps down as batman and criminals slowly calm down at least a little because joker is dead and batman is gone maybe they died together but I feel like after killing the joker Bruce actually does stop and doesn't feel bad for killing him and now all he's thinking about is being better and making up for his mistakes

Maybe it's how tired batdad looks, maybe it's how hurt jason is by what the joker did and an argument they had,maybe its a disappointed look from dich, maybe its how too addicted Tim is getting with being a vigilante, maybe it's how innocent damian looks in his sleep or how Alfred has always been there for him maybe it's batdad divorcing him maybe Bruce is terminally ill

I dont know but I can always see him eventually doing this and trying to mend the broken or cracked bridges

Maybe it's not even Batman that does it. Joker breaks into Wayne Manor and Bruce, acting on some instinct to protect his family, just shoots him. And maybe he wasn't even trying to kill - the shot was perfectly nonlethal, it was the fall that killed him, Joker snapping his neck on a desk or credenza or something.

At some point, Bruce... fails at his one mission, the one goal he had never lost. It's too much to continue. He can't, now. He's broken, guilty, exhausted. But Batdad offers him an alternative. An opportunity. He can no longer be Batman, but Bruce Wayne can still be a hero, as a philanthropist, an investor, a lobbyist, an activist. To help people.

[twilightangel83]

(Note, I’m not taking the tags into account for this)

Don’t get them wrong. The Batfam was happy Damian had finally made a friend. They were just…confused. Most people don’t take kindly to someone trying to kill them after all. And the kid kept making weird comments about how much Damian liked or looked up to them, especially Tim and Jason.

They did their best to let it be, but it was inevitable that one of them was going to question it eventually. But, funnily enough, Danny was the one to bring it up first.

Damian and Danny had spent a good part of the day exploring around the manor and hanging out with Damian’s animals. Normal things to do with a new friend. But then, with Damian being Damian, things went a bit to the left. The pair had been making their way to the gaming room, where most of the family was currently hanging out, and Damian spotted the sword he had hanging on the wall there.

The family watched in horror as, with little to no warning, Damian grabbed the sword and swung at Danny with a grin on his face.

“Damian!” Bruce’s shady tone (perhaps a shade too close to Batman) cut across the room, laced with enough anger and disappointment that it drew both boys to an immediate halt. “You know the rules! You can’t just keep attacking people! I thought you were doing better at this!”

Bruce watched as Damian slowly lowered the blade before turning his attention to their guests.

“I’m so sorry Danny, we’ve been working on this. I’m sure-”

“What the fuck is wrong with you?!” Danny cut across him and only then did Bruce realize that the boy didn’t look even a little bit scared. Instead he looked furious. Cold blue eyes locked on him as Danny moved to put himself between Bruce and Damian. Guarding. Danny looked like he was trying to protect Damian from Bruce. Like he thought Bruce was going to hurt his son!

“Danny what-?”

“No. He tried to tell me, but I didn’t realize it was this bad. Are you trying to make him sick? Or keep him isolated from his friends and family?”

“What?!” Bruce reared back, offended. “Of course not! I-”

“Then why are you keeping him from playing and bonding with people?”

“Playing is fine!” Bruce pulled his temper in. Yelling at this teen wasn’t going to help things. “But attacking people is not appropriate play.”

“Of course it is!” Danny disagreed, giving the man a look that seemed to border between disgust and exasperation. “Fighting is a perfectly healthy way for liminals to play. In fact not doing it is pretty unhealthy.”

“…..”

“You do know what it means to be liminal right?” Danny’s anger and disgust visibly faded as he took in the confused looks he was getting from everyone in the room. “You don’t. Fuck. No wonder. Ok. Ok. Um.” The boy looked around. “We should all sit. This might take a bit to explain.”

“Perhaps we should retire to the den,” Alfred spoke up from the doorway, having been drawn by the noise. “I shall get refreshments. It sounds like they may be helpful. Should I also call the rest of the family in?”

“Yeah. That’s probably best.” Danny agreed, looking visibly relieved at the suggestion. Bruce nodded slowly after a moment, taking in the posture of the two boys in front of him. Danny had, thankfully, lost most of his anger. And Damian. Well. His shoulders were still dropped more than Bruce liked. But he looked curious as well. Perhaps hopeful?

Bruce felt his heart clench as he got up and began making his way to the den. Had he been causing Damian harm by not allowing him to spar? He’d just thought that the boy had been depressed due to changing situations and difficulty in adjusting, but it was starting to sound like there was more to it than that. He needed to figure out what it was he’d missed.

(That’s what I’ve got for now. Might continue later)

Machi's #9 DP x DC idea

Damian has a ghost core bc so much exposure to Lazarus pits so he stabbing is his way of trying to make friends by fighting. The batfam only realizes this when at a gala Damian stabs Danny and he gives a too many too sharp teeth smile and throws Damian over the table. After the fight they find Damian on Danny's shoulders, laughing.

Me: does that mean that Damian is desperately wanting to make friends with a certain Drake? X"D I tot Tim is his least favorite Batfam member

Machi: Damian is frustrated bc Tim never responded as he expected (aka playing fight)

[ellienettie]

6. Tim dies (lol)

I just wanted to write about Tim dying and the batboys grieving about it in their own ways (or what I like to imagine is their way of grieving) so Tim gets shot as a civi and everyone sees it and the next chapters focus on a batboy.

Bruce - Bruce, for losing the boy who didn't have to find and save him, for losing the boy who he knows without a doubt would never leave him, the boy who was his son before he was officially his. He contemplates all his sons relationship here and starts drinking again, thinking about how disappointed Tim would be because *Really Bruce? You're doing this again?* But Bruce can't find his strength to let go of the intoxicating liquid, can't find the will to not let himself drink his lucidity away because the person who stopped it in the first place is gone. He keeps one thing, though. One thing Tim did his best to change. Bruce still keeps his punches soft as batman, and it hurts that Jason tells him that he never cared about Tim, he never loved him enough to lose his will to batman again. Truth be told, Jason, that all Bruce wants to do is let go of batman now, but batman is what Tim would've never let go of, so he doesn't stop even if he spends sunsets to mid-morning to stop fighting, even if his punches are so weak it doesn't do anything to criminals, and if once upon a time it was the criminals nearly being beaten to death, now is their payback and Bruce wishes he could find it in him to be strong again.

Dick - He’s holding on to hope. Death wasn’t a forever concept in Gotham. Proof? Bruce, Jason, Joker, Damian, so why would Tim be the exception? And Dick feels off about everything and he’s tired and stressed and then someone just touches him and all of a sudden he’s clinging to Tim’s coffin, crying about how that’s his little brother in there, telling people to give him back. Dick, the oldest brother, who once again lost another brother. He thinks about maybe Tim would come back to life- "and that's another person in the dead robin's club. Letting robin pass on was a fucking mistake" and basically starts overworking himself and ignoring people again, until he breaks because he has to physically lock the gun man up and he beats the gun man an inch or less to death and he feels guilty and he should be arrested but the police (his workmates) are like "it's ok. We got you. He was scum." Trying to hide it and Dick's even more disgusted at the fact that he's not punished for his mistake.

Jason - Jason thinks he's glad. Jason thinks he's glad that Tim's dead. Except he's not. Jason wanted to kill him, yes, but why now? *Why now?* when things were going fine, and everything is alright, and there was *hope* that everything would become better and shit won't hit the fan and- he thinks it's a punishment for being happy, he thinks it's the universe telling him that he should've never become happy with someone he tried to kill. Another robin dead in the club, and he lashes out in anger and people *try* to accept that it's not the truth but it's hard right now and everything *sucks* and it sucks even more because he's the only one who's stable enough to properly prepare a funeral with Alfred, and what absolutely guts him like a fish is how Alfred tenderly holds a picture of ‘Robin!Jason’ and tells him that it was Tim's prized possession, that he, Jason's Robin, was Tim's reason to be in this lifestyle. Through the miracle of the butterfly effect, Tim is now dead. Jason hates butterflies.

Damian - Damian. Damian's glad, so glad that he's dead. Drake has never been worthy of the mantle, or the company. Drake was never needed, because if Father waited a while longer he would have a more worthy robin by his side, also saving him from himself. The sting of a slap doesn't surprise him, no, it's the fact that it's from his own father that it does. "After he got shot for you, Damian?" And Bruce leaves with a stumble, Alfred not even sparing him a glance. It seems like the world's against Damian after the one thing he wished for finally came true. Drake was dead, and for the better. Damian was superior in every way. Except. Except Damian feels a strange longing. He finds himself looking for new photos to appear magically in the manor as always, except Pennyworth never hangs them up anymore, cradling the few left and cleaning them with such tender loving care. He finds listening carefully for the hum of punk music playing loudly in headphones, or the meticulous clicking of objects that Drake fancied, like a camera, or his laptop. He finds himself sniffing the air for the usual smell of coffee, only to be met with nothing. He finds himself...missing drake. 

[hood-ex]

What about this issue has you conflicted?

Spoiler Alert!

Okay so first of all, I enjoyed the moments between Dick and Bruce. I liked the flashback scene that showed Alfred looking out for Dick and telling Bruce to leave Batman at the door before going to talk to Dick.

I also liked that we got to see Bruce being a protective father when he stepped in front of Dick during the Blockbuster confrontation. I feel like Bruce will always have that instinct to protect Dick no matter how old Dick is because he did it for so long when Dick was growing up. But... this moment was also sliiightly annoying in the sense that it followed the same pattern that we've seen in previous issues by having someone do something for Dick that he should be doing himself.

Dick is a confrontational type of person and he could easily backtalk Blockbuster instead of needing Bruce to do that for him. So on one hand, I liked that Bruce was being a good dad here by jumping in to protect Dick, but on the other hand, I wish Dick didn't act as passive. Although, I guess I can't exactly fault him for trying to diffuse the situation when he has to maintain his public persona, but I don't know, I guess I just want to see a little more fire in him instead of the nonchalant attitude Taylor usually gives him and Babs.

Other than that, this was yet another guest appearance issue (Dick has yet to have one single issue all to himself omfg kill me now). We got both Bruce and Jon this time around (plus Alfred from the flashback). I gotta admit that I was a bit disappointed that Bruce only brought Ace with him. I really wish he would've brought Titus too 😭.

Not a lot happened in this issue. It was basically just a push of Dick's conviction that he'll always jump in to help others no matter the cost. We did finally get to see Heartless make a reappearance towards the end though. Fucking finally. Dick's forgotten all about him and has only been focusing on issues related to Blockbuster or his philanthropy work.

I will say that the Marv & George pizza bit did make me tear up a little 😭. Dick waving to George is so bittersweet.