#adult characters who happened to be youthful looking =/= sexualizing children

[clione16]

"chilchuck is that one 'she is 10000-year-old dragon' trope but he is guy so no one ever think it is weird" "people who thirst over him is a pedo" Do. You. Even. Read. The. Manga.

[black-butler-meta]

Why Ciel Being a Minor is Crucial

Something that constantly catches my attention as I read Black Butler is the emphasis on Ciel being a child. It’s brought up constantly in how other characters perceive him, and it also presents itself at times within his behaviors, particularly during traumatic events. It’s intentional and vital to the story and the themes and messages within it would not be the same if Ciel were an adult.

Ciel’s childlike nature and presentation is an integral part of the overall story and his development as a character. It serves three purposes:

It symbolizes that he is not yet past the trauma he endured when he was younger.

It serves to contrast against his more mature qualities and how others underestimate him because of it.

The presence of both mature and immature qualities provide symbolism for the transient stage of adolescence and how adults respond to it.

For the first point, Ciel’s persisting youth serves as a symbol of being stuck in one’s past trauma. He is thirteen years old, and yet he looks younger, likely due to his time in captivity where malnutrition was one of the many cruelties he endured. Additionally, he maintains some child-like characteristics within his personality and actions, such as being carried often by Sebastian, having Sebastian watch over him as he falls asleep, and an avoidance/ignorance around sex/sexuality. His childlike behavior is heightened during traumatic events, such as witnessing the slaughter of children within a replicated space of where his trauma occurred (Book of Circus arc), his near-death experience with Sebastian where he had to be forcibly restrained to receive treatment (Green Witch arc), as well as when he has PTSD nightmares. He comes across as very sheltered and avoidant of topics around sex, which at least partially correlates to his cultural upbringing within Victorian era England; however, his blatant lack of awareness of sexual topics/concerns pushes even beyond his cultural restrictions into the atypical (this will be expanded upon in a separate post).

Most, if not all, of these moments show a behavioral age regression in response to trauma. He may be 13 in the present, but the scared 10 year old still lives within him.

Age regression is typically divided into two types: voluntary and involuntary.

Ciel demonstrates both of these. He demonstrates voluntary age regression by allowing Sebastian to carry him around, as well as explicitly ordering him to watch over him while he sleeps. Although I’m not entirely sure on what are considered typical butler duties, one might even see the act of dressing and washing as babying, although this also seems an appropriate duty since I’m sure Ciel never had to dress himself as a young child. Still, none of us can deny that the act of dressing and washing are an intimate and personal form of care between Ciel and Sebastian, regardless of what side of the ship/no-ship fence you’re on. The number of frames/scenes of Ciel being dressed/undressed are evidence enough that these moments hold weight for both characters. Within all of these situations, Ciel is in control; he decides how he wants to be treated, and anyone who oversteps that boundary is met with hostility (e.g., Sebastian attempting to spoon feed him). By contrast, the involuntary age regression occurs during moments of trauma, which was already described above.

Either way, the childishness of Ciel communicates the message that while trauma may happen in a specific place and time, the impact of it is lifelong and takes years to overcome.

For the second point, it’s also important to recognize that while Ciel is childish in many ways, this youthfulness of him is always put in contrast to other aspects of him that are very mature. He’s an earl and has the responsibilities of an adult, the heaviest of which is to fulfill the Queen’s orders as her watchdog. Additionally, his intelligence and wry humor are very mature for his age, partially thanks to Sebastian’s influence and education - we saw on the flashbacks how little he knew at first and how much Sebastian had to teach him. If it weren’t for the childlike aspects present (physical smallness included), he could easily pass as an adult character.

The fact that he is technically a teenager and not a preadolescent is an important one. He knew early on that he would be perceived as a younger than he was due to his small stature. In order to carry out his vengeance, Ciel knew he had to integrate adult society. He had to work particularly hard to grow up as quickly as possible, which was why he allowed Sebastian to educate him so strictly. It worked; the queen recognized his position and maturity and allowed him to take his place as her watchdog, granting him the ability to pick up his father’s mantel and become part of the dark, seedy (and very adult) underworld.

However, it goes without saying that his youth is never forgotten amongst the adults that surround him. He is constantly looked at/treated as a child by others, including his enemies, and as such, they think they can either manipulate him or don’t see him as a threat. Ciel uses this to his advantage to best his enemies with his superior intelligence and Sebastian’s supernatural skills. He’s throwing their assumptions of him back into their faces. He isn’t a child; not anymore, and especially not after what he went through. Within the world of Black Butler, children are often treated as less than human, not worthy of respect or autonomy. They’re often compared to tools, dolls, or animals. Children are ‘things,’ created by adults and for adults. It’s a beautiful irony that it’s the cruelty of adults that has transformed Ciel into the very thing that’s going to destroy them (i.e., the adults responsible). Their hubris and the fact that they underestimate him due to his youth will be their downfall.

Of course, the conversation of whether Ciel is a child or adult is, in a way, a false dichotomy. The reality is that he exists somewhere in the middle; Ciel is neither fully a child nor fully an adult, and it’s this power struggle between his trauma and the world he lives in that provides symbolism for what it means to be an adolescent. Adolescence is a transitory period that is often overlooked or de-emphasized, particularly in western culture. Adolescence is often lumped in under the category of “child” with emphasis on the younger years of childhood, especially when it comes to topics of sex/sexuality (again, this will be discussed in a separate post). As such, there’s an invisible divide that exists in western culture between being a “child” and being an “adult.” This, of course, does adolescents a disservice, as adolescents are also going through major physiology changes, as well as dealing with a change in expectations from those around them. It’s a combination of adults restricting personal autonomy and self-identity for the adolescent paired with the pressure/expectation of the adolescent to behave as an adult and provide adult-level results.

This is what makes Ciel and Sebastian’s relationship so interesting. Due to the nature of the contract, Ciel is the one in control, rather than Sebastian. It’s a strangely balanced relationship between them, where Ciel is the master and Sebastian is the servant; and yet, at the same time, Sebastian is the mentor/guardian and Ciel is the mentee/apprentice. Sebastian is able to teach and establish rules that follow his role as his butler and play along with the game of upholding Victorian values (mostly), but in the end, Ciel is the one who has the final say on what happens. In this sense, their dynamic grants Ciel the autonomy and control that he craves, while also providing him with the support that he continues to need. In this way, Ciel is able to exist in both spaces at once: being a child in some ways, and being an adult in others. Both are central to who he is, and both are important.

[olderthannetfic]

The teenage fandom puritanism really confuses me. To be honest I don't know what to think. For the most part, the antis I've come across aren't sex repulsed, or sex negative or anything like that, they're just extremely, extremely uncomfortable with people older than them making explicit content of characters they like. These are often characters in their late teens (17/18/19) that the teenage antis identify with.

They feel like they're still kids and minors and fragile so they project this onto their blorbos and demonize anyone basically over 20, and the outrage seems to get worse the older one gets, making explicit fan content of them.

The antis I know reblog, create, post about sexually explicit writing and fanart themselves and they give a pass to anyone 18 or under making such content but as soon as your age ticks over that magical year, it's over.

A tiny part of me can kind of see it from the point of view of a young person who's grown up in a society where hysterical reactions to everything are normal and encouraged and where pedophile is the absolute worst thing you can call someone...It seems like to their minds any adult creating fictional sexy content of a 'teen character' must be acting on some vile real life impulse to harass and abuse real life teenagers because clearly there's no separation between fiction and reality /s.

So knowing they've grown up in that sort of environment I kind of get why they'd be so scared and distrustful of any adult having fun with fictional characters but it also still blows my mind.

I remember devouring as much smutty fiction as I could when I was in high school, some of which was about teenage or young adult characters, all of which were published books written by adults, and never once did it cross my mind 'This person must be writing this story because they're getting their sick jollies imagining kids having sex' (because antis conveniently refer to anyone under 18 as a kid, as if a 17 year old was the mental and emotional equivalent of a 7 year old. They conveniently forget that adolescence exists.) Actually, the authors didn't really enter my mind at all because I'd be too busy getting lost in the story, imagining it was me the sexy times were happening to and having a very good time.

I always thought these people can write these stories because they were that age once, they know what it was like. I've always thought of writing like this, that you write because you know what it was like, not because you necessarily want to be there right now.

So this terrible fear the young antis have of adults creating written or visual content of fictional young adults having sex or thinking about sex or craving sex is kind of wild and alien to me.

I think it's something they won't understand themselves until they hit mid-20s, 30s, 40s themselves, that when adults make that sort of explicit content it's not because they are horny for teens in real life and making fiction is just some sort of cheap cope, but because they're having fun reimagining their own youth or because now that they're removed from those turbulent teenage years they can look back with fondness, or horror, and can write about that period of life with more clarity and nuance. Or maybe, just maybe, they just think the characters are roaring good fun and are trying to create some content that will bring something entertaining, meaningful and just blimmin' good to read to that same audience that wants them pilloried.

Who knows. I'm just an old person who has no business having any erotic thoughts about nothing and anything I say can be discarded ^.^

--

You give them massively too much credit.

They are emotional children who have trouble sharing their blorbos with others and who are Big Mad some older person is a better writer and/or ships their blorbo in a more interesting ship and gets way more attention for doing so.

[stardomthenightwing]

I love the ships in wings fire but I don’t think it was really ok to have same sex couples (sunlow and jamapple.) it is a kids series and I do like sunlow but tui is really just throwing out mlm and wlw ships. my sibling is constantly asking about why sunlow is a thing and she asks about why it’s expectable for this to be in a 8yo book.

I respect your cautiousness for the younger audience that reads these books. Same-sex couples have been a controversy throughout all of our history, so it's not something new. It just so happens that it has gotten really popular in modern media, and I agree, media that includes LGBTQ makes understanding others more cumbersome for youth. It's kind of a problem to be told your whole life that males only get with females and have your core values changed by a children's book so suddenly. As a parent or older sibling, it's really difficult to speak with your child about these things, and I get it because I have a younger sibling who looks up to me.

Your viewpoint is valid, but mine differs. I personally think that including LGBTQ themes in children's media can be a good thing because it helps children determine things for themselves and gives them a head start on figuring out their philosophy and view on the world. As a child myself, I was exposed to many adult concepts, and that turned me into the intelligent person I am today. It depends on the path you want to take in life what you make of controversies, and children who want to endure the difficult understanding go down a much more rewarding and thorny path than others who prefer to ignore it. And to keep prejudice from arising within our society again, I think Tui's demonstration of these relationships is tolerable, even for people who don't think LGBTQ people are valid. Children should decide for themselves what they make of these relationships, and it's better through a book than a possibly biased parent.

Opinions aside, you've got to respect Tui's boldness and desire for change. She clearly strived to do something different, all the while knowing how some people would receive this, and I really admire that 'true' demonstration of courage.

Now I totally see your other concern, the fact that Tui might be cashing in on LGBTQ. She's throwing all these LGBTQ characters into her books to feed and fuel the desires of her fanbase, and from a certain point of view, it would appear that Tui is exhausting that category of character and cashing in on it. Too many LGBTQ characters can be a bad thing, and my personal opinion is that Tui doesn't have too many yet; we will see what happens in the future with that.

If you are searching for advice to explain this to your sibling, you came to the right guy. If I were you, I would tell them that times are changing and that people are changing with those times. LGBTQ people aren't bad people, neither are furries, stans or any of those other silly types of people you hear of on the internet. A person is defined by their actions, not by their sex, color of skin or mental conditions. You should never hate a person, only the bad actions a person does, because all people are allowed to change but not what has already been done. Sunlow is a thing because Tui decided to represent one of those kinds of people, and that's acceptable because the sexuality is depicted fairly and not misleadingly. There are many different kinds of people in this world, and it's up to you to decide who you accept and who you do not.

[starseed-twenty]

Houses determining an 'age stage' 🔮

Okay, so this is a random long post, but.... do you ever think that perhaps the houses in our charts represent the stages in our life? From birth to death? Cause I do.

So basically... the first house (the ascendant) is our energy as soon as we leave the womb. But through life and its dynamic changes, our energy can change into the traits of the sign in the following house because circumstances drive us into having that sign's traits/vibe.

Personally, I'm starting to believe that each of the houses in a person's birth chart holds a stage or period of time in your life where your energy is more focused in that area/house. That's why you'll hear for example "if your 4H is in Sag, you most likely grew up in a carefree home"... cause at the time you were growing up, your energy was focusing on the 3rd and 4th house. And so you transcend into Sagittarius energy because it is in your 4th house.

For example, a person with a Capricorn Ascendant. At birth, they're calm, reserved little babies, who tend to get upset pretty easily. Until they get a little older (around 3 years old) and start developing these Aquarius traits/energy because of their 2nd house [unless Capricorn is in both 1st and 2nd house]. But once they get to an age where they're making sense of the world and developing a sense of being and being aware of the things they have, this is their 2nd house age stage activated.

Okay, so let me put it like this:

1st house age stage [birth to around 3 years]: Since the 1st house is the house of 'self' and revelation (or showing yourself) to the world, this is how it correlates to birth and being a newborn. 1H rules beginnings, the body, and approach to life. The sign you have in 1H is the sign you act as in your approach to life from the beginning to the end. [Side-note: This is because every house you enter that stage in is carried on with you until you're old and die. So you don't necessarily let go of the house because you're in a new age stage, but it merely becomes dim. It's there, but it's not ruling like the age stage you're currently in].

2nd house [around 3 to 6 years old]: This is the age or stage when you're making sense of the world and develop a sense of being and becoming aware of the things you have, as I mentioned. So you're basically becoming conscious about yourself, whilst adapting to the values, possessions, and skills you have. So the sign you have in 2nd house is how you handle that. For example, if you have Capricorn, you're more stern, careful, and calculative about all the possessions and skills you hold. You normally put those things at a high standard, and it can take a while for you to attain certain things because Saturn (Capricorn's ruler) encourages you to earn all that you have.

3rd house [7 to 10 years old]: At this point, you know who you are, what you have, and how you normally approach life. In trying to develop yourself a bit more, you look around you at who the people around you are. 3rd house is Gemini's house, and Geminis are very conscious beings; of people, things to learn, and their word (a bit too conscious, and that's where the 'two-faced' cliche comes in). So this age stage then comes with using the mind a lot. Learning stuff and getting ideas, speaking about them, knowing what friends are and being close with siblings, if any, and sharing stuff. The sign you have there is how you acted through all of this.

4th house [10 to 13 years old/puberty]: This is when you start grounding yourself and knowing where you come from, who your real family is, the foundations of your soul's intentions (life path), and where you feel secure.

This, I would say, is the basis or core of a person and who they eventually become at their peak or in the public eye. So if they grow up in a home that isn't too stable, they grow to oppose that to become more stable in order to bring balance [because 10th house is the 'aftermath' that's opposing of the 4th house]. So the sign you have in this stage is the sign you live out as [e.g, Sagittarius 4th house had a more free-spirited way of living in their pre-teen age].

5th house - [14 to 18 years old]: Now this is where a lot of us begin our adolescence age, and this is because the 5th house comes with this 'being a teenager' energy. 5th house is about creativity, hobbies, exploring, romance and love affairs, self-expression, and drama. A whole lot of drama. We dramatize the things we go through, our bodies and its changes, things that happen at school and at home, and sometimes the 'situationships' we're in. Everything's just such a story. And that is 5th house energy in act. The sign you have in 5th house is how you'd find yourself going about all of these things.

6th house - [19 to 24 years old]: At this stage, you've seen the world from your perspective and played around with your interests & hobbies, so you come to a point of either wanting to capitalize/profit from those hobbies or talents, or settle on simply trying to make money to become stable because now 'you're an adult'. So with that, you're more focused on working, routines, productivity, and self-improvement. For some, body changes also occur here because the 6th house is also about health and body.

Now the sign you have in your 6th house is most likely how you'll make that money or what your career will be like. For example, a person with Gemini in 6th could pass off as a Youtuber, Instagram Influencer, perhaps a Tiktok star, or anything in a field of communicating to people and spreading ideas or trends in a cool way.

7th house - [24 to 27 years old]: After developing yourself, your career, and your financial health, you then find yourself wanting to settle down romantically and start creating a home. So here come relationships becoming more serious, sharing stuff (your ideas & values going forth, your assets, and your whole life) with someone, and basically getting the real feel of marriage or long-term pairing. But the 7th house doesn't only rule love, it also rules partnerships, contracts, and alliances. So how you are one-on-one with people and merging with them is your 7th house influence at play. The sign in your 7th house is how you present yourself through all of this.

8th house - [27 to 30 years old]: The 8th house is a pretty complicated house, but nonetheless it's very good for growth [through changes]. At this age, many experience events that bring depth or deeply felt peak experiences. It's as if it's this rebirth of some kind where you rediscover yourself. From another standpoint, this is where there's more depth in a relationship/marriage, joint ventures or goals coming together, inheriting some money or assets, and also perhaps feeling really sexually liberated or just simply getting to the point of procreation (and this why most people have or picture having kids at this age). From any of these standpoints, the sign you have in the 8th house is what comes out the most as your energy.

9th house - [31 to 35 years old]: This is the age of you finding the true meaning of life and what your beliefs and values are contrary to what you've been taught, but really establishing your own and sharing them with your significant other or/and children.

This is when you're most philosophical, and have a bit of time for journeys, travel, expanding your knowledge, your taste/style, your beliefs, etc. This is why when you look at a lot of people at this age, they're a bit more settled down on who they've become and there's more of a visibility of what their life is about. The sign you have here manifests as the vibe you give out. For example, a Cancer 9th house more or less has nurturing and maternal energy at this age. They have this motherly or homey vibe towards their expanded mental state in a way where they feel like they have a lot to teach and it comes from a compassionate perspective.

10th house - [35 to 42 years old]: Once you're at this age stage, you're pretty much at the peak of your life because this is when all that you are, where you come from (your roots and home), who you've established yourself as and everything you've worked for reaches its final stage and becomes the real end phase of who you are. Anyone who starts knowing you at this stage can navigate the type of person you are (from your past) and not have a reason to think you'll still change into new characters. There's nothing much to come up with after this as you're practically done creating yourself. All you do now is mainly enjoy the fruits of your labour whilst simultaneously working on the career you been building, and also maintain the public image you've established. Your authority, your power, and your achievements are at their peak here. So the sign you have here is how you show all of this.

11th house - [42 to 50 years old]: This is when you're growing old and out of your peak. You're still a valuable part of the world and play a good role in people's lives, but you're basically leaving that zone of only focusing on yourself and you instead focus more on helping the community or leaving a legacy. The 11th house is about humanitarianism, social/global awareness, the community, social groups, end goals, and the future as a whole. So as you're more focused on these things because you're at the age where there's nothing much else to do but help out and be a great member of society for your final years. The sign you have here though can determine how you act out in all these instances. Cause if you have a Sagittarius 11th house for example, then you could be quite youthful and lowkey a rebel against societal norms. So in you helping out the community, you let people to see this vision that's a different version of norms. Like normalizing stretch marks or bringing a new genre or idea of music or wearing clothes that are weird at first but end up being quirky and cool.

12th house - [50 years old to death]: And at this final age stage of life, you're about to transcend out of your body and purely to your soul, so your soul innately/naturally starts feeling connected to its end stage where it's about to retreat from the world. This could be through last acts of service to humanity, deep connections with spirituality, healing, contentment, confinement, self-reflection, understanding karma, and dreaming. These all occur the most once you get to this age. Depending on the sign you have in this sign, you could experience a deep or light transcendence when you get to this age stage.

BUT - huge disclaimer:

The ages vary according to the maturity of a person's life. So for example, for one person, Cancer is in their 6H but they only start developing into their Cancer age stage at 21. At 19 or 20 they still present their Gemini age stage, because everyone differs, including the maturity of their age stages. So they feel more Cancer at an older age.

So... it depends on your life.

But this is most of the route or path of life many people go through.

Also, I'm starting to believe and see that wherever Cancer is in your house is where you feel pretty maternal/paternal, or you're just really loving and caring towards the people around you.

And wherever Leo is in your houses is most likely your shining point or prime of your life; things work out for the best for you at that Age Stage.

For example, Beyonce has her 10th house in Cancer and right now she's pretty much experiencing her 10th house age stage cause we can see how she's pretty maternal and motherly. Cancer is also pretty emotional so we've seen that after the whole cheating saga, she released all her emotions through an entire album. And Angelina Jolie has Cancer in her 1st house, and like I said 'the sign you have in 1H is the sign you act as in your approach to life from the beginning to the end', we can see how she's always felt pretty maternal, so that's why she's grown to have a lot of children (by even adopting some).

Another example, Rihanna having Leo in her 5th house, that's when she was practically discovered (16). And Kim K, she has Leo in her 9th house and that was when she was at the peak of her fame, from 2013 onwards, when she was beginning her 30's. And Ariana Grande has Leo in her 8th house, which I'd say is the age stage she's in currently, considering how she's the female pop singer that's topping charts the most lately.

So, conclusively, this is why I'd really think Age Stage in the houses is a thing.

And if you are trying to understand why your life is going hella sad and boring for the past 4 or 5 years, try and look at the sign in which your Age Stage is at in the houses. Cause it could be Pisces, Scorpio, or Capricorn. [Their rulers] Saturn, Pluto and Neptune can bring tense and deep energy that can make life pretty hectic. But, there are also profection years, so you can look at those too.

[pulchritudinous-plants]

have y’all ever noticed that only two characters in the book regularly get described as looking older than they are? those two being charlene and maybeck? fair warning, i have a lot of thoughts about how weird of ridley this really is

I’ll talk about charlene first, as it’s the less heavy topic. In the first two books especially charlene is always described as looking 18 or so. they’re 13 in these books; still in middle school. and she’s constantly being sexualized. and yeah, you could use the excuse that three of the main povs we get are teenage boys, but it’s still being written by a middle aged man who’s choosing to put her in purposely sexualized outfits, those being cheerleading uniforms and nightgowns.

it’s no secret that ridley always sexualized his female characters (with the exception of willa, which is a whole other post) just look at the car wash scene in the first book with jess. most of this is erased in the rewrites but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s a grown man writing children as looking like adults. have you seen your average 13 year old? even the ones that look older are so clearly still children. if the only way you can effectively convey that one of your characters is attractive is to sexualize them, you’re a bad writer.

in my opinion maybeck is the bigger problem. i don’t think it’s unfair to say that a lot of how maybeck is written is iffy. but constantly writing his as looking or acting older than the rest of the kids really rubs me the wrong way, especially when you look at the fact that black youth in america are rarely allowed to be children. they’re constantly presented by the media as ‘young men/women’ when white kids get to be ‘boys/girls’. this is often used in racially motivated attacks to dull out what really happened, especially in the southern part of america. ridley, a white man, constantly using this narrative for maybeck, that he looks 18 at thirteen speaks very clearly in my mind of ridley having this same bias. there’s no reason why he would be the only one constantly throughout all the books to be described as looking older than he was. especially when he’s the only character who is 100% canon poc.

most of kingdom keepers rep is just frustrating and a little ignorant but this really does play into harmful precedents.

[shamelessships]

Yeesh. I was looking for wholesome Luca x Alberto content to post, but I stumbled across a Reddit post that essentially shit on people who ship Luca and Alberto. Essentially, it was saying we “get help,” and this made me feel irritated and misunderstood. Their arguments were that close friendship does not equal gay (I agree), the boys are just kids (they are 13 and 14 in the movie, so yeah), and the director confirmed that they are just friends (that’s cool).

Firstly, I actually don’t think that Luca and Alberto are explicitly “gay.” I prefer to think that they have a special place in their hearts for each other. You can fall in love with whoever you want to without identifying with a label. I’ve read lots of works where a guy prefers women, but he makes an exception for a special man in his life.

I respect canon and abide by it more than my creative mind would like me to. All I know about this adorable duo is:

A) They touch each other a LOT for comfort. I’ll have to count it, but it’s more than most platonic male friend pairings I’ve seen on screen.

B) Both of them share same dream of running away and traveling the world on a SINGLE Vespa. Like, they could get two Vespas; one for each of them! But nope, they want to be together for the ride on the same seat.

C) Alberto gets jealous and you can see him frown during the split second when Giulia touches Luca’s hand. A character’s jealousy over seeing physical contact between two people is usually an indicator of romantic interest.

D) There’s something subtle with their relationship that I can’t quite verbalize. They have a shared background, both being shapeshifting seafolk. They have opposite but parallel experiences with how they were parented. They make a great team and support each other. They helped each other grow. These are all platonic qualities that make up a solid foundation for a thriving relationship in fiction. You can’t help but cheer for it.

E) I have a theory that if you shifted their genders around… i.e. Luca was a girl and Giulia was a boy, more people would pick up on the budding romance between Alberto and Luca.

Secondly, I don’t think there is anything wrong about shipping children or teens with each other. I think it depends on the type of “ship” you’re building. Not all romance needs to be sexual. In fact, fluff is my life and feels much more rewarding to produce and consume.

I also don’t think it’s right to bar children from seeing any romance in their movies, shows, books, comics, etc. because it’s a part of growing up. Kids get crushes! It’s better to have healthy examples of love of all kinds across all mediums made for kids and teens. It shouldn’t be the focus, but a solid romantic B Plot was what I lived for back in the day.

I do think it’s iffy to depict young people in sexual situations. The reality is, lots of youth between the ages of 13-15 start experimenting with romance and sex— I sure did at that age. That being said, writing about two underaged people as an adult author has to be nuanced and fit into a larger story or moral lesson, otherwise it can fall into “creepy and inappropriate” territory.

(Side note: I got traumatized as a kid when I read a story about children 5-8 years old getting abused and violated in graphic detail. I forgot the title of the book and the name of the author, but I do not recommend. At all. I assume it was a way for the author to process their own childhood trauma, but like… why was this book published!? I’m saying this because I don’t tolerate children being put in those types of situations, fictional or not.)

The Harry Potter series featured a lot of platonic relationships! And what happened? The kids got together when they grew up! Did people bat an eye when people were shipping Hermione and Draco? Or Ron and Harry? Yes, probably. But I don’t think it was about them being “too young” to be shipped. Their romantic relationships started out as friendships.

I’m certain that lots of people who ship the two are in fact, ALSO KIDS of the same age group as the characters. It’s not fair to reprimand them for shipping as they please. When I was 15, I shipped characters like crazy.

Lastly, Enrico Casarosa’s announcement that the characters aren’t gay is cool with me! Refer to the first point above as to why.

Fine, they’re not gay. But they clearly love each other. Love doesn’t have to be sexual or romantic. You can love your friends.

There is a concept called “Death of the Author,” and it’s defined as:

literary criticism which holds that an author's intentions and biographical facts (the author's politics, religion, etc) should hold no weight when coming to an interpretation of his or her writing; that is, that a writer's interpretation of his own work is no more valid than the interpretations of any of the readers. The logic is fairly simple: Books are meant to be read, not written, and so the ways readers interpret them are more important and "real" than the ways writers write them.

(Source: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor)

Basically, once your work is out for the world to consume, it’s fair game for everyone who consumes it to analyze it. This is why stories are really cool. People can extract completely different meanings and interpretations after watching or reading the same exact piece of work.

Whatever the canonical status of their romantic doesn’t matter too much to me. I just want them to be together, sharing a lifetime of friendship and love. (Heck, it’s what I want for myself and my partner.)

Would it be nice for them to deepen their bond later on in life when they’re adults? Heck yeah!

Besides, I always hear people highly recommend marrying your best friend.

So yeah, maybe I will get help…

Get help on coming up with fresh new Luca/Alberto content! 😜

Thanks for the creative fuel.

[masterthespianduchovny]

What fascinating about people who claim the anti Sam/Rebecca crowd are infantilizing Sam, with the implication of being racism being a driving factor, is that the aging up of Sam could also equally be argued as racist. But many lack the self awareness to see that or to account for this when lobbing out this defense and implied accusation.

More often than not, young boys and young black men are aged up to prove they knew what they are doing and are hardened criminals. They are seen as adults compared to their white counterparts even when they are legally minors and the white people are adults.

This perception of black boys and men are one of the cornerstones behind the “prison to pipeline” theory. When we refuse to see black boys and men as their age, we do them a massive disservice.

Now, this comes into play with Sam because this logic is being used for the pro Rebecca and sam defense. Sam’s consent and willingness is such a low bar to clear because many young men are interested in older women whether or not it’s to date or fuck them. This consent and willingness has nothing to do with ethics, it’s simply about legality. I’d also assert that the comparison to ted is disingenuous because it’s reactionary and not thoughtful. It pretends that these are two like things when they aren’t.

When we bring maturity into the discussion, it’s not a one size fits all type of thing either. Maturity is such a blanket term and does black children and young black adults disservice because it robs them of youth. Since they’re mature, they should know better or not act like other people their age. And it’s because in a sense, they are seen as older than they are as mentioned.

Stressing how mature Sam is and constantly accusing others of infantilizing him not only ages up Sam, but seeks to silence valid criticism about the red flags and inappropriateness surrounding this relationship.

Someone being consenting and willing isn’t enough when assessing the various power dynamics. That’s a start, not the end all be all when you see such a disparity between two people. I’d assert that due to such a large age gap and the added power imbalance, it’s even more crucial even more discerning regarding such a relationship.

There is nothing wrong with looking out and trying to protect a young black man, esp when society either demonizes them or leave them to their own devices. When such a relationship has the likelihood of blowing up in his face and him dealing with major repercussions as a result, regardless of consent.

And, although this isn’t on the same scale, it reminds me of Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton. She was 21 when they had an affair, he was her boss, and it was fully consensual. However, when the news broke, who was dragged through the mud? Who was used as punchline? Who was attacked and stated to have known better?

Monica.

Where as bill’s presidential legacy is largely intact.

As a kid, I thought Monica was so grown. I couldn’t believe she did that.

Even before I turned 21 years ago, I was like, “she was young as fuck.”

She has to deal with harassment, bullying, and death threats. But she consented and was willing, riiiiiight?

Despite admitting it was consensual even to this day, which I’m not disputing, even Monica says the relationship shouldn’t have happened with one of the reasons being her age. And it’s truly fucked up what America put her through to the point she can barely keep a job, resorted to plastic surgery to hide her identity, among other shit. She has to develop a good humor about it because what else are her other options?

When we age up young adults, we don’t prepare them for if shit goes south. We pretend just because they have a certain level of maturity, that they have the knowledge, foresight, and skills to deal with a situation that turned into a shit show.

That is deeply unfair to them. Respecting a young adult’s adulthood doesn’t mean throwing them in the deep end, it means respecting where they are at and understanding the gaps in their knowledge and experience.

Christ, this doesn’t even touch how black kids are believed to be sexually mature at super young ages like 9-10. It’s not because they are, of course; but society projects these beliefs on them and treats them as teens in their later years or younger adults.

With the constant framing of Sam’s maturity and stressing that he consented, one could argue the same is happening here.

Once we get past the low bar of consent and willingness, what’s the worse case scenario of this relationship? The fact that Rebecca doesn’t even have to intentionally seek to harm Sam in order for him to be harmed in this situation should be enough to give everyone pause.

But alas, no matter what the critics say, its alway going to be called infantilization with subtle accusations of racism because these defenses lack nuance or are performative. Undoubtedly, racism exists in fandoms, however, our efforts to combat racism shouldn’t overlook the problematic nature and troubling implications of this relationship being criticized.

Although our first instinct is to protest black characters (and POC), our analyzation of what’s happening shouldn’t end there. We shouldn’t be advocating for something that is most likely detrimental to a black character to spite fans.

And considering the down spiral Rebecca is likely going through, we should want more for Sam than for him to be caught up in that shit.

[thinkingisadangerouspastime]

(pt 1) i really enjoy all your atla analyses & you've done a great job breaking down the usual arguments re how eip shows that kataang shouldn't have happened. i'm curious about your take on one specific argument that i just saw today, in an analysis of the show by a zker that was otherwise quite good and respectful (i know you've already talked about eip a lot, so no problem if you don't feel like rehashing). the premise: aang didn't just pressure katara in eip, he threatened her.

(pt 2) they point to when katara joins aang & asks if he’s alright: “aang: no, i’m not! i hate this play! katara: i know it’s upsetting, but it sounds like you’re overreacting. aang: overreacting? if i hadn’t blocked my chakra, i’d probably be in the avatar state right now!” the suggestion is he’s threatening her when he says ‘i’d probably be in the avatar state right now’ to describe his anger. i think this take exaggerates and oversimplifies it, but interested in your thoughts on it.

Hello my friend!! It is true I am Old inside and don’t like rehashing dhdlksjslks BUT your comments on my posts are always incredibly kind and insightful so I am more than willing to do a bit of rehashing for you 🥰 Besides! I’ve seen this general take before a few times and it’s always irked me for the exact reason you point out - it simultaneously exaggerates and oversimplifies the situation (and honestly that’s an impressive duality since it’s seemingly contradictory, so hats off to them lmaooo) - and now is as good a time as any to address it. So, for starters, let’s go ahead and get the excerpt they love to focus on so much:

Cut to Aang standing alone on a balcony. Katara enters and walks up to him.

Katara: Are you all right?

Aang: [Angered.] No, I’m not! I hate this play! [Yanks his hat off and throws it on the ground.]

Katara: I know it’s upsetting, but it sounds like you’re overreacting.

Aang: Overreacting? If I hadn’t blocked my chakra, I’d probably be in the Avatar State right now!

Here’s the thing about so-called analyses of this excerpt: in a manner extremely convenient to the poster, they never seek to contextualize this moment. (I mean, to do so would deplatform their entire “argument” - perhaps that’s why they avoid performing a full analysis?) So let’s avoid that pitfall from the start.

Firstly, below are some links to related posts; I’m going to do my best to summarize the most relevant parts, but for anyone who desires greater detail, I gotchu 😤

This post explains why EIP (the play, lol) is imperialist propaganda and is intended to belittle the entire Gaang.

This post explains how Aang never acted “entitled” to Katara’s affections, particularly in regard to EIP.

This post breaks down the infamous EIP kiss like Snopes Fact Checker, covering common misconceptions, important perspectives to consider, etc.

Alright. With that out the way, it’s time for some context.

Aang and Katara have this conversation on the balcony after watching 95% of “The Boy in the Iceberg,” a play chock-full of Fire Nation propaganda that demeans the entire Gaang in order to prop up the Fire Nation as superior (hence why the play ends with Ozai’s victory). Here is my general breakdown of Aang and Katara’s treatment in particular from a previous post:

- katara, an indigenous woman, is highly sexualized and portrayed as overly dramatic and tearful, because the fire nation objectifies women not of their own people and views them as less intelligent and less emotionally stable

- aang, the avatar, the sole survivor of the fire nation’s genocide of the air nomads who is incredibly in-touch with his spirituality and femininity, is portrayed as an overly-airy and immature woman. the fire nation portrays him with a female actor to demean him (like, that’s classic imperialistic propagandist tactics) and furthermore writing his character as a childish airhead reinforces the fire nation sentiment that the air nomads were weak, foolish people who did not deserve to exist in their world

In other words, these kids have just watched almost an entire play that preys upon their insecurities and depicts them using racist and sexist stereotypes about their respective nations. It is completely understandable that tensions might run a little high and that their interactions would not be as balanced as usual (Katara and Aang have a great track record of communicating well with each other, as it happens!).

So we have to keep that in mind when examining the aforementioned excerpt. But there are other factors to consider, too! Namely: they are kids. Children. Teens. Aang is 12, Katara is 14.

If we want to be scientific, a person’s brain doesn’t finish developing until they are 25, lmao, and the preteen/teen years are when the prefrontal cortex that controls “rationality,” “judgement,” “forethought,” etc. is still developing. This doesn’t mean Aang and Katara are irrational and make poor decisions 24/7 (obviously not), but it does mean that in an intense, highly emotional situation, like after watching a play that intentionally demeans them and depicts them as inferior, they are more likely to overreact, more likely to be emotional, and more likely to make mistakes. Like, I’m serious, lol. “Teens process information with the amygdala.” That’s part of the brain that helps control emotions! It’s why teens sometimes struggle to articulate what we’re thinking, especially in situations that require instinct/impulse and quick decisions, because we’re really feeling whenever we make those choices. Acting more on emotion. Our brains simply haven’t finished developing the decision-making parts, lmao.

In sum: Aang and Katara are both kids, not adults, and should be interpreted as such. This doesn’t negate their intelligence, because they are both incredibly smart and Aang is arguably the wisest of the Gaang, but they are human. Young humans. They have emotions, and we should not be so cruel as to assume they’d never act on them.

So taking that all together, we can now acknowledge the high stress Aang and Katara are under, understand why they might be upset (*cough* imperialist propaganda is hurtful *cough*), and examine how their youth might play into their emotional reactions. And funny thing - all analyses that come to the conclusion of Aang “threatening” Katara here do not usually bother with this context. I can’t imagine why!

And you know what, let’s add one more piece of context: Sokka states that Aang left the theater “like, ten minutes ago,” which is what cues Katara to go look for him on the balcony. The reason I mention this line is because to me, it suggests Aang knew he was more worked up than usual! He chose to separate himself from his friends so he could process his frustration! He did not take his anger at the play out on them; instead, he purposefully took time and space to be alone.

With that in mind, I don’t understand at all how Aang’s Avatar state quote could be interpreted as a threat? Canonly, Aang is someone who was aware enough of his frustration to separate himself from the others - yet the logical next step is him threatening Katara as a result? He knew his intense emotions were because of the play (which he says himself), so the logical conclusion is that he then pinned the fault on Katara? What?? Sorry, that interpretation has no textual basis, lmao. But I digress!

Aang tells Katara, “If I hadn’t blocked my chakra, I’d probably be in the Avatar State right now!” As you said, this is the line people point to in an attempt to justify their (baseless) conclusion that Aang is “threatening” Katara. So let’s bring in the two key pieces of context: imperialist propaganda and age. Given that Aang is 12, and given that Aang has just watched almost a full play that demeans him and everything his people stood for (and let’s not forget it also mocks his and Katara’s love for each other)…

His reaction is understandable. An exaggeration and needlessly dramatic, but understandable. He feels vulnerable and insecure and Aang is human. He is human and flawed and he overreacts here and I love that A:TLA shows how even our heroes, even people who are truly good at heart and in soul, can get overly upset (especially given the aforementioned circumstances!). Would Aang actually be in the Avatar state at that moment, had it been possible? Of course not! He’s young and he’s hurt and as such he says something dramatic to convey his anxieties and frustrations. The line is not meant to be taken literally, and seeing people do so despite all the factors that should be taken into consideration when analyzing it… Cue a long, tired sigh from me and so many other A:TLA fans.

And to be honest? I cannot fathom how people watch this episode and come to the conclusion that Aang is “threatening” Katara. To me, this episode - besides being a recap episode - is one that humanizes our cast even further. Aang snaps at Katara, kisses her when he shouldn’t (which the story appropriately treats as wrong). Katara pushes down her true feelings and retreats into herself, afraid to start a relationship with the boy she loves because she’s already lost him once before and can’t bear to do so again. Zuko further confronts the hurt he’s enacted upon others, especially upon Iroh. Toph practices being vulnerable and accepting vulnerability from others by conversing with Zuko. Sokka witnesses how others have erased his contributions and labelled him as nothing more than the token nonbender in the group. Even Suki learns that she is not the only person who holds a place in Sokka’s heart and that she can never replace what he has lost.

To watch this episode where our heroes must come to terms with how the Fire Nation deems them inherently inferior, with how they have more fights to overcome in the future with the Fire Nation than a single war, and to come to the conclusion that… that what, Aang is abusive? A monster? Irredeemable? That he would threaten his best friend, someone he loves in every way?

Wow. That says more than enough about the viewer, doesn’t it?

[dropintomanga]

The Evergreen Shonen Story

A short while ago, there were some online conversations about the popularity of shonen stories. Almost all of them are based around the experiences of youth and some adult fans wanted action-oriented stories based around their life experiences as adults. Reading stories centered on teens and kids as the main characters isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, I’ll admit that. But sometimes, I think shonen stories are somewhat of a reflection on what adults have been telling kids for years and how some/most of their advice has failed youth.

Life begins in the womb. We come out to a world of many possibilities. As children, we’re immune to bias until adults decide to tell us about the many differences of various people out there. Some adults may not care and have trouble dealing with their own pain, They may resort to substances like drugs and alcohol to cope. Under the influence of drugs or alcohol, these adults may start to abuse children and/or neglect them entirely.

There’s a term that relates to the overwhelming negative experiences of children growing up. It’s called ACE - “adverse childhood experiences.” Examples of such experiences include physical/sexual abuse, parent separation, physical/emotional neglect, and living with an adult with substance addiction. I look at a bunch of shonen flashback stories and many of the traumatic ones revolve around physical and emotional neglect.

Why is this important to acknowledge? Because some adults do a bad job in raising their children or guiding kids to become responsible individuals. We’ve seen examples of bad parenting in anime and manga. There’s also the fact that adults have been full of dreams themselves when they were kids, but have been fed advice on how the “real world” works. They’ve been told that they can’t make their dreams come true and/or they need to behave a certain way to get by. It’s a vicious cycle. A colleague of mine told me that when she sees young people with vision and a desire to smash the status quo end up being a part of the status quo themselves, she wondered if that’s due to those individuals seeing how hard it is and how long it takes to generate the change they want to see.

One of my favorite shonen characters in recent memory is Satoro Gojo of Jujutsu Kaisen. He was a student of Jujutsu High and ends up becoming a teacher there. Gojo is considered to be a prodigy, but he remains humble. He’s also willing to speak up to authority as he has gotten into disputes with upper school management over the fates of cursed students (particularly Yuji Itadori and Yuta Okkutsu) whose potential have yet to be realized. Gojo has once said that he needs to remind himself not to be a bitter old adult as he ages.

A good number of shonen stories drive the point that adults shouldn’t be bitter old ones. Or maybe more importantly, don’t be dismissive about teen experiences. I listened to a podcast a while back about loneliness and how much it affects mental health. There was a discussion point about adults ignoring teens that feel lonely with regards to dating. Here’s a quote from that discussion.

“The number one way that we do this (being dismissive of loneliness) in America is every single 30-year-old up completely dismisses the loneliness that a teenager feels about not having a significant other. Because once we hit 30, we realize that your 16 year old significant other is nonsense. It’s just nonsense. You’re gonna be in love so much in your life. You’re gonna love everybody. You’re going to date a million people. It’s gonna be fine. You’re going to realize how insignificant this relationship is. 

The key word there is you’re gonna realize it. It’s a future thing for them. So when every 30, 40, 50, 60 year old looks at the 16, 17, 18 year old and says, oh, you just broke up with your boyfriend? Yeah, who cares? That’s a meaningless relationship. I don’t care. That exacerbates the loneliness. It exacerbates the disconnected feeling because it really, really, really, really matters to them.”

I honestly think adults being dismissive towards teens’ current experiences is one reason why shonen stories still resonate with many. We’ve all been through those times where adults just shut us down because ultimately, it doesn’t matter. Yes, there comes a point where we have to move forward. But a good amount of emotional pain stems from adolescence and it lingers. Most mental disorders begin to happen around those years. Unfortunately, most of us don’t know how to give back in ways that stop the cycle. I do think mangaka are trying their best to give back the way they know how. 

Yet I think the biggest reason for the enduring popularity of shonen stories is friendship. We all know the Shonen Jump tropes - friendship, hard work and victory. All three are important, but friends are what really keeps us alive. The harsh truths are that hard work doesn’t always get you where you want to go and victories do come at the cost of important relationships. Over the years, I noticed that in my neck of the woods, friendship is frowned upon. When you’re ranking important relationships in life, first is your mother, then maybe your father, then your romantic partner, followed by your children. Friends are last. There was a nice read I found that listed a good amount of studies on the importance of friends (especially for those who are LGBTQ+ and faced stigma from immediate family). 

We don’t live on an island, contrary to what neoliberalism says. Families aren’t enough. Friends are what keeps us alive and helps build our sense of identity. 

Maybe the fans who want more mature/adult-centered stories with shonen action just want to see more nuanced stories about friendships in adult settings. Friendships are so hard to make and maintain as adults. There’s some glimmers of hope for those kinds of stories - in video games. Yakuza: Like a Dragon is a great example of an adult hero in a genre dominated by young protagonists, the Japanese RPG. The story is about a 42-year old ex-yakuza who gets exiled into a unfamiliar city and manages to make something of himself with the help of new friends he made there. It was refreshing because the whole cast were adults who were unemployed and/or stigmatized due to underworld ties. They managed to save Japan from a vicious political alliance with action elements that felt shonen at heart.

I’m all for more adult-centered mainstream shonen stories because seinen material can be a bit too blunt for some tastes, but there’s a lot of focus on the mindset of youth lately than in decades past since there’s concern on how they will manage in a world that continues to disappoint them.

I love shonen because I honestly don’t feel like I’m an adult due to my depression. My development felt stunted. I feel that I have more in common with 20+-year olds than people my age. I want to be around people who are youthful at heart. I wonder about those who still enjoy shonen past the target demographic - what still draws them to it? Is it due to them embracing their inner child more likely than most people? Or do they just like to follow simple action stories that have a lot of heart (something that some people don’t have)?

Looking at shonen’s enduring mainstream status does make me think about the the feedback loops between adults and teenagers. I’ll end this by talking about an incident that happened a couple years ago where a somewhat prominent Anitwitter figure (I am NOT going to mention their name here, but you may know who I’m referring to), who made a lot of friends with people in the anime/manga industry, was outed be a sexual predator who went after young naive anime fans at fan conventions. One of the reactions from someone that was once close with them was how can older anime fans better connect with younger anime fans when needed. I know from personal experience, I sigh on seeing the behavior of teens at conventions at times. But I learned that by saying things like “Kids are so dramatic,” “Boys will be boys,” “She’s being emotional.” gets harmful in a hurry where proper context is warranted. Maybe they are being so-and-so, but it doesn’t hurt to ask and give validation to their concerns. Teens are the lifeblood of anime conventions right now.

Shonen is a gateway introduction for youth on how to process pain in a way that helps themselves and other people with the help of said people. It’s an escape from the distress and trauma of reality. That reality, which has situations like the incident I mentioned, is controlled by adults who don’t always have it together, can’t admit their flaws, and sadly take it out on the world. That’s why shonen is still so powerful today despite all the criticism the genre gets. And that’s the evergreen truth.

[butterflies-dragons]

oh j0nryas know about balticon report, they just think he was being coy (asdjkahs same delusion with s/ns/ns), that he was rambling bc he was trying not to give spoilers. at this point he could go on live and say "no dumbasses there is no j0nrya, there won't be, there never was" (same w pedoships) and they will all be like "omg it is definitely happening in twow, look at how he's trying to divert our attentions, we are onto you george hehehe"

OK let’s review, again, chronologically, all the times that GRRM was being coy and trying to divert his readers’ attention regarding the ships you mentioned:

The “It could be very different things to each of those involved” Alternative: “Mind you!”

JUNE 24, 1999 THE HOUND AND SANSA

Moreta12: I understand, I’ve heard your opinion on that. In ACOK, it seems that the relationship between the Hound and Sansa had romantic undertones. Is that true?

GeoRR: Well, read the book and decide for yourself.

Moreta12: I’ve read the book and I’ve debated those particular scenes with a few others. Half say that it’s romantic and half say it’s platonic. I’ve taken the romantic stance.

GeoRR:  It could be very different things to each of those involved, mind you

Moreta12:Yes, but it seem like evidence points towards romantic undertones. Will the Hound appear later?

GeoRR: Yes, the Hound will be in STORM OF SWORDS. In fact, I just finished writing a big scene with him.

[Source]

The “Why are you asking me about Sansa’s sexuality?” Alternative 1: “Are you really asking me when your fave male adult character can fuck a girl, 15 years younger than him, without guilt?” Alternative 2: “Why are you so gross?”

OCTOBER 05, 1999 AGE OF SEXUAL RELATIONS IN WESTEROS

The nature of the relationship between Sandor and Sansa has been a hot topic on Revanshe's board. Sansa's youth has been one focus of the discussion. What is the general Westerosi view as to romantic or sexual relationships involving a girl of Sansa's age and level of physical maturity?

A boy is Westeros is considered to be a "man grown" at sixteen years. The same is true for girls. Sixteen is the age of legal majority, as twenty-one is for us. However, for girls, the first flowering is also very significant... and in older traditions, a girl who has flowered is a woman, fit for both wedding and bedding. A girl who has flowered, but not yet attained her sixteenth name day, is in a somewhat ambigious position: part child, part woman. A "maid," in other words. Fertile but innocent, beloved of the singers. In the "general Westerosi view," well, girls may well be wed before their first flowerings, for political reasons, but it would considered perverse to bed them. And such early weddings, even without sex, remain rare. Generally weddings are postponed until the bride has passed from girlhood to maidenhood. Maidens may be wedded and bedded... however, even there, many husbands will wait until the bride is fifteen or sixteen before sleeping with them. Very young mothers tend to have significantly higher rates of death in childbirth, which the maesters will have noted. As in the real Middle Ages, highborn girls tend to flower significantly earlier than those of lower birth. Probably a matter of nutrition. As a result, they also tend to marry earlier, and to bear children earlier. There are plenty of exceptions.

[Source]

The “Unreliable narrator - Part 1” Alternative: “The much more important lapse in memory that was promised”

JUNE 26, 2001 SF, TARGARYENS, VALYRIA, SANSA, MARTELLS, AND MORE

[GRRM is asked about Sansa misremembering the name of Joffrey’s sword.]

The Lion’s Paw / Lion’s Tooth business, on the other hand, is intentional. A small touch of the unreliable narrator. I was trying to establish that the memories of my viewpoint characters are not infallible. Sansa is simply remembering it wrong. A very minor thing (you are the only one to catch it to date), but it was meant to set the stage for a much more important lapse in memory. You will see, in A STORM OF SWORDS and later volumes, that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her the night he came to her bedroom… but if you look at the scene, he never does. That will eventually mean something, but just now it’s a subtle touch, something most of the readers may not even pick up on.

[Source]

The “Unreliable narrator - Part 2” Alternative: “It doesn’t mean what you think it means”

OCTOBER 05, 2002 SANSA’S MEMORY

[Note: This mail has been edited for brevity.]

… this is an inconsistency with ASoS more than an outright error. In ASoS, Sansa thinks that the Hound kissed her before leaving her room and King’s Landing. In ACoK, no kiss is mentioned in the scene, though Sansa did think that he was about to do so.

Well, not every inconsistency is a mistake, actually. Some are quite intentional. File this one under “unreliable narrator” and feel free to ponder its meaning

[Source]

The “Unreliable narrator - Part 3” Alternative: “Better ask yourself about Sansa’s psychological state”

NOVEMBER 27, 2007 GEORGE R.R. MARTIN ANSWERS YOUR QUESTIONS

Here’s a really particular question (which I realize means it probably won’t get asked in a general interview): In A Storm of Swords, there is a chapter early on where Sansa is thinking back to the scene at the end of A Clash of Kings when The Hound came into her room during the battle. She thinks in the chapter about how he kissed her, but in the scene in A Clash of Kings, this actually didn’t happen. Was that a typo or something? —Valdora

GRRM: It’s not a typo. It is something! [Laughs] ”Unreliable narrator” is the key phrase there. The second scene is from Sansa’s thoughts. And what does that reveal about her psychologically? I try to be subtle about these things.

[Source]

The “The answer is No” Alternative: NO!

APRIL 15, 2008 FUTURE MEETINGS, POVS, ARYA’S ROLE, EASTERN LANDS, AND ASSASSINS

[Will Sandor and Sansa meet?]

Why, the Hound is dead, and Sansa may be dead as well. There’s only Alayne Stone.

[Source]

The “He’s a lot more dangerous than he is romantic” Alternative: “BUT THERE IS SAM!”

AUG. 21ST, 2009 AS SER JORAH MORMONT… - NOT A BLOG

weltraummuell: The Hound Oh please don’t cast an old guy for the Hound, his scenes with Sansa are so romantic and erotic, I couldn’t bear if it’d feel creepy all of a sudden. Well, that’s me making demands. LOL

GRRM: Re: The Hound Old guy? No, but… the Hound is still a whole lot older than Sansa, and was never written as attractive… you know, those hideous burns and all that… he’s a lot more dangerous than he is romantic.  

kestrana: The Hound Yeah its a “girl always wants the bad boy” kind of thing although Sansa seems to pull something else out of him. It feels so wrong sometimes but I want to see them together again tee hee.

weltraummuell: The Hound Hehe, George, maybe you didn’t intend it, but he turned out to be a very erotic character to female readers. Especially since he’s mutilated and dangerous. Makes him unpredictable and vulnerable which is the most explosive aphrodisiac for a girl’s fantasy. ;)

weltraummuell: The Hound And I know from discussions on other board other women feel just the same about Sandor. He’s an absolute favourite with the ladies!

halfbloodmalfoy: The Hound LOL, you’re such a man. To many of us women, dangerous *is* attractive.

GRRM: The Hound But no one has any love for poor old Sam Tarly, kind and smart and decent and devoted…

[Source]

The “That’s interesting...” Alternative: “They are deeply troubled individuals, Harriet”

22 JUNE 2012 SWORD & LASER VIDEO PODCAST

GRRM: I am sometimes surprised by the reactions, of women in particular, to some of the villains. The number of women over the years who have written to me that their favorite characters are Jaime Lannister or Sandor Clegane [the Hound] or Theon Greyjoy… All of these are deeply troubled individuals with some very dark sides, who have done some very dark things. Nonetheless, they do draw this response, and quite heavily, I think, in the case of some of them, from my female readers in particular.

Veronica Belmont: I’m a big fan of the Hound, myself, actually.

Tom Merritt: Of Sandor? Really?

Veronica Belmont: Yeah, the Hound… Maybe it’s not because I feel any compassion towards them, I’m not really sure what the attraction is. Ah, I’m not going to call it attraction, actually. Let’s just say it’s a fascination, perhaps.

GRRM: [Chuckles] Well, I mean, fascination is one thing, but some of these letters indicate that there really is like a romantic attraction going on there. And I do know there’s all these people out there who are, as they call themselves, the “San/San” fans, who want to see Sandor and Sansa get together at the end. So that’s interesting, too.

Tom Merritt: The TV show has sort of played with that a little, and probably stoked those fires.

GRRM: Oh, sure. And I’ve played with it in the books. There’s something there, but it’s still interesting to see how many people have responded to it.

[Source]

The “I guess I don’t understand women” Alternative: “I'm shook”

JUNE 23, 2015 GRRM Q&A AT THE SCIENCE FICTION BOOKSTORE IN STOCKHOLM

Question: “Is there any fan reactions that you have been surprised by, like is there a character that’s more popular than you thought or have people been shocked by something you didn’t think we would be shocked at?”

GRRM: “I’m reasonably certain what people will be shocked by. I knew that the Red Wedding would provoke a big reaction and it did. I was pretty confident that, you know, throwing Bran out the window and then killing Ned in the first book would get reactions, and indeed they did. All of those worked exactly the way it did to the extent that things that have surprised me, they tend to be smaller things. I guess I… Maybe I should not have, I don’t know. How do I phrase this without getting myself in terrible trouble… I guess I don’t understand women, but I was definitely, you know, way back when, surprised by the number of women who reacted positively to characters like Theon and the Hound as dashing, romantic figures. The san/san kind of thing took me by surprise, I must admit, and even more so the women who, and there are some, who really like Theon. So that surprised me.”

[Source]

The “Comfort level of femininity” Alternative: “That's not a reference for romance”

MAY 29, 2016 BALTICON REPORT 

My con friend asked about the Jon/Arya relationship again and brought her (impressive) Game book that had all of her references marked out with little flags. She brought up the Ygritte connections to Arya that Jon saw in her. George did not directly answer yes or no if there would be anything romantic between the two.

George did say, despite what readers see as clues to a romantic relationship between Jon/Arya in the books themselves, he did not confirm this so easily but inferred that what Jon saw in Ygritte was a comfort level of femininity. <<<  She and I obviously discussed these comments after the meeting and this was the general feeling.

My con friend was referring to George explaining Jon’s perception: GRRM replied, “You know, I don’t think it’s a reference for that [for romance]. It’s a reference to a certain physical type, and  a certain indication of what Jon finds admirable. It’s like someone who reminds you of, you know… Other people might be put off by this, you know, hair that looks like small rodents have been living in there. It doesn’t put him off because he is used to that.”

The “I was making up shit.” Alternative: "I wish I can delete that"

MAY 29, 2016 BALTICON REPORT 

After the Coffee Talk just outside the room:

My Con Friend asked about Arya and Jon again. This time GRRM gave some very pointed replies:

GRRM finished (in the hallway now) by saying that he “wished some past things weren’t such strong foreshadowing,” and that he, “wished some new things had stronger foreshadowing then.”

Friend: Ok, if you foreshadowed something in the first book, like, really cleverly hidden, would you then follow through on that hint? For sure?..

GRRM: “Well, this goes with what I said before, the story changes and expands as I write. I wish I was able to go back and make revised drafts, but that’s not going to happen.”

Here is a transcript of the outline discussion and Jon/Arya portion of the coffee talk:

[question about Jon/Arya]

GRRM: “Alright, you’ve thought about this more than I have. I mean it’s simple, Jon is very fond of Arya. They were the two odd birds in the Stark family nest, here. They didn’t quite fit in with the others, they look like each other, they both had the brown hair, you know, as opposed to the auburn hair of Sansa and Bran and Rickon and Robb. So there was always that closeness between them. And, you know, Arya didn’t mind that Jon was a bastard, and Jon didn’t mind that Arya was a tomboy, so there is that closeness there.”

[question about Jon comparing his lover to his sister]

GRRM: “If he did it, uhm… I began writing these books in 1991, and, uhm, I worked on it in 91 and then I got a tv play, so I put it aside to really work on ‘Doorways’ tv pilot and did a tv show in 92-93. In 94 I returned to it [the books] and worked on it. You know, up till then, in my career as a writer, I’d always written the entire book before I opted for sale. That’s unusual. Most writers do chapters and an outline. They write a few chapters, they outline the rest of the book, give that to the publisher and the publisher says ‘oh okay, I’ll take that’.

“As some of you may have noticed, those who have been paying very, very carefully attention, I’m not good with deadlines. And, uh, and I’m not good with outlines, either. I always hated outlines. So with Fevre Dream and with Armageddon Rag and with Dying of the Light and all my novels, I wrote the entire book. I didn’t do chapters and outline. I sat down, I wrote a whole book, and I sent it to my agent and said ‘Look, here’s a whole book, and it’s finished’. That way I ran into no deadline, it was finished before it even went on the market. And it worked well for me. And my initial thought was to do this the same way, but what happened, you know, was in 1994, uhm, when I returned to it and I’m working on it and I’m very enthused about it and I say ‘I really wanna write these Game of Thrones books as the next part’. But I was still in Hollywood and I’d just lost all this groundwork on ‘Doorways’, I was still in… The studios and networks still wanna work with me, so I’m getting other offers, like ‘We want you to write this movie’, ‘we want you to do another tv pilot’. And, you know, I took a couple of them and was ‘Oh god, I gotta have to put the book away again’. Cause I have no deadline [for the book]. You know, when you think Hollywood, they will give you a deadline, you know, they say ‘here, son, write this movie, we want it in three months’.

“So, I said ‘look, if I wanna get back to being a novelist, I’m gonna have to sell this even though it’s not finished’. So I had my 200 pages of Game of Thrones at that point, but they wanted outline. I said ‘I don’t do outlines. I don’t know what’s gonna happen, I figure it out as I go. And that’s how I always did it.’ No, we had to have an outline. So I wrote two pages, a two-page thing about what I thought would happen. It’ll be a trilogy, it’ll be three books, Game of Thrones, the Dance with Dragons, and Winds of Winter. Those were the three window titles. And, uh, it’ll be three books and this’ll happen, and this’ll happen, and this’ll happen. And I was making up shit.

“And I had thought that those two pages were long forgotten, because, of course, the books did sell. They sold in the United States and in Great Britain, both. They sold for enough money that I didn’t have to take any more Hollywood games. So I was able to say ‘no’ around. I had a few less [?] to wind up in in 94 and 95. Once I had, I said ‘no, I don’t want any more movies or tv shows, I’m going to write these books now’. And I started writing the books. And in the process, I pretty much disregarded the outline. The characters took me off in entirely different directions. So, for 20 years I had forgotten that that two-page thing even existed. And then someone in my British publisher, HarperCollins, they got a new office building, uh, brand new offices, and new conference rooms, big conference rooms that they decorated with books and stuff like that. And they named the conference rooms after the writers, so one of the conference rooms [?], and they put up these plastic display cases, including the outline. The two-page outline, yes. [?], they didn’t ask my permission, they just put it up. And in that two-page outline, Jon and Arya become a romantic item.”

“You know, I don’t think it’s a reference for that [for romance]. It’s a reference to a certain physical type, and  a certain indication of what Jon finds admirable. It’s like someone who reminds you of, you know… Other people might be put off by this, you know, hair that looks like small rodents have been living in there. It doesn’t put him off because he is used to that.””

[someone says they have 5 minutes left]

“You know, I was pretty pissed that that outline got out there. It should not have happened. Outlines and letters like that are meant only for the eyes of the editor. They shouldn’t go on public display. And, uh, they also [?] my papers on [?], all my papers and correspondence. You know, I’ve been sending that stuff there for years, and it’d be, you know, available for future scholars or whatever, just like the papers of many other writers. Somehow, in the back of my head I was like ‘yeah, 20 years after I’m dead some scholar will go in and find them’. They’re going in right now!”   ”

[question if he is still going with the 1991 ending]

“Yes, I mean, I did partly joke when I said I don’t know where I was going. I know the broad strokes, and I’ve known the broad strokes since 1991. I know who’s going to be on the Iron Throne. I know who’s gonna win some of the battles, I know the major characters, who’s gonna die and how they’re gonna die, and who’s gonna get married and all that. The major characters. Of course along the way I made up a lot of minor characters, you know, I, uhm…Did I know in 1991 how Bronn, what was gonna happen to Bronn? No, I didn’t even know there’d be a guy named Bronn. I was inventing him along the way when I was writing, ‘Okay, he gets kidnapped. Let’s see, there are a couple sellswords there, their names are Fred and Bronn’.

“It was actually Bronn and Chiggen, and then one of them dies, I flipped a coin ‘okay, who dies? Chiggen dies, cause his name is stupid. Bronn is a better name, so I’ll keep Bronn’. And then Bronn became quite an interesting character and plenty of these characters take on minds of their own. They push to the front till you [?] speech and you think of a cool line and you give it to Bronn because he’s trying to talk, and now Bronn is somebody who says something cool. [?]. That’s how characters grow on you. “So a lot of the minor characters I’m still discovering along the way. But the mains-”

[question if he knows Arya’s and Jon’s fates]

“Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Sansa, you know, all of the Stark kids, and the major Lannisters, yeah.”

This report appears in the following sources:

fattest leech of ice and fire blog [Source 1]

asoiaf.westeros.org [Source 2]  

westeros.org [Source 3]

The “Unreliable narrator - Part 4” Alternative: “I think I had enough...”

DECEMBER 2016 ASKING GEORGE R.R. MARTIN ABOUT SAN/SAN

My question is regarding Sansa Stark. Her sexuality has evolved through every book and yet the memory that seems to stick the more with her in this regard is the night of the Blackwater. So I was wondering if you can expand on your view on what this is, since as before that night her interactions with Sandor Clegane weren't really physical.

The night of the Blackwater, yes. Ahhh... Well, I'm not going to give you a straight answer on that hahaha... Uhmmm, but I would say that ahhh... you know a television show and a book each has its own strengths and weaknesses; there a re tools that are available to me as a novelist, that are not available to people doing a television show. And of course there are tools available to them, that are not available to a novelist, I mean they can lay in a soundtrack, they can do special effects, they can do amazing things that I can't do, I just have words on paper. What can I do, well I can use things like the internal narrative, I can take you inside of territories... thoughts, which you can't do in a TV show... Ahhh... You just have the words they speak, you see them from outside because the camera is external, while prose is internal, and I have the device known as "unreliable narrator"... Ahhh... Which again, they don't have. So, think about those two aspects when you consider that night of the Blackwater. 

[Source]

Most of these questions make me think of Nabokov having to clarified, regarding Lolita, that he didn’t write a romance..........

So there’s that, everyone can draw their own conclusions.  God knows that in this fandom: “We look up at the same stars, and see such different things.”  

Thanks for your message.

[ashleysitalianlitblog]

My Brilliant Friend (HBO Tie-in Edition): Book 1: Childhood and Adolescence

From the famous Italian author Elena Ferrante, the story is about a poor but vibrant neighborhood on the outskirts of Naples, Elena Ferrante’s four-volume story spans almost sixty years, as its main characters, the fiery and unforgettable Lila and the bookish narrator, Elena, become women, wives, mothers, and leaders, all the while maintaining a complex and at times conflicted friendship. This first novel in the series follows Lila and Elena from their fateful meeting as ten-year-olds through their school years and adolescence. This book is now turning into an HBO MAX show and it’s a young adult classic in modern-day Italy

The Story of a New Name (HBO Tie-in Edition): Book 2: Youth

The follow-up to My Brilliant Friend, The Story of a New Name continues the epic New York Times–bestselling literary quartet that has inspired an HBO series and returns us to the world of Lila and Elena, who grew up together in post-WWII Naples, Italy. 

In The Story of a New Name, Lila has recently married and made her entrée into the family business; Elena, meanwhile, continues her studies and her exploration of the world beyond the neighborhood that she so often finds stifling. Marriage appears to have imprisoned Lila, and the pressure to excel is at times too much for Elena. Yet the two young women share a complex and evolving bond that is central to their emotional lives and a source of strength in the face of life’s challenges. In these Neapolitan Novels, Elena Ferrante, “one of the great novelists of our time” (The New York Times), gives us a poignant and universal story about friendship and belonging, a meditation on love and jealousy, freedom and commitment—at once a masterfully plotted page-turner and an intense, generous-hearted family saga. 

Adua

The book Adua is by lgiaba Scego has historical references and looks into the life of an immigrant. The story is about Adua, an immigrant from Somalia to Italy who has lived in Rome for nearly forty years. She came seeking freedom from a strict father and an oppressive regime, but her dreams of becoming a film star ended in shame. Now that the civil war in Somalia is over, her homeland beckons. Yet Adua has a husband who needs her, a young man, also an immigrant, who braved a dangerous crossing of the Mediterranean Sea. When her father, who worked as an interpreter for Mussolini's fascist regime,  dies, Adua inherits the family home. She must decide whether to make the journey back to reclaim her material inheritance, but also how to take charge of her own story and build a future. From the choices of being an adult to a wife, the book gives us a look of the hard choices life gives us in a heartbreaking story. 

100 Strokes of the Brush Before Bed

An instant blockbuster in Italy that went on to become an international literary phenomenon, 100 Strokes of the Brush Before Bed is the fictionalized memoir of Melissa P., a Sicilian teenager whose quest for love rapidly devolves into a shocking journey of sexual discovery.

Melissa begins her diary a virgin, but a stormy affair at the age of fourteen leads her to regard sex as a means of self-discovery, and for the next two years she plunges into a succession of encounters with various partners, male and female, her age and much older, some met through schoolmates, others through newspaper ads and Internet chat rooms. In graphic detail, she describes her journey through a Dante-Esque underworld of eroticism, where she willingly participates in group sex and sadomasochism, as well as casual pickup

The Scent of Your Breath

Melissa P.’s fictionalized memoir, 100 Strokes of the Brush Before Bed, became an international literary phenomenon, selling over two million copies worldwide and provoking a warning from the pope. The Scent of Your Breath, the second installment in her series of confessions, is a tale of obsessive love and destructive passion.

Melissa is now a successful writer in Rome, living with her new lover, Thomas. With his soft body and feminine eyelashes, he is sensual, patient, and comforting—the antithesis of all the men who came before. But as soon as she meets Viola, a young woman from Thomas’s past, Melissa is consumed with jealousy. Written as a confessional letter to her mother, the story that follows is one of dark obsession, violent lust, and soul-destroying talent, teeming with the ghosts and dragonfly-women Melissa is convinced are trying to steal her man and bring about her ruin. The Scent of Your Breath blurs the boundaries between reality and fantasy and delves deep into the disturbing yet strangely familiar mind of a teenage girl terrorized by love.

Three O'Clock in the Morning Is by Italian author Gianrico Carofiglio the contemporary heart-waring piece is about Antonio is eighteen years old and on the cusp of adulthood. His father, a brilliant mathematician, hasn’t played a large part in his life since divorcing Antonio’s mother but when Antonio is diagnosed with epilepsy, they travel to Marseille to visit a doctor who may hold the hope for an effective treatment. It is there, in a foreign city, under strained circumstances, that they will get to know each other and connect for the first time. A beautiful, gritty, and charming port city where French old-world charm meets modern bohemia, father and son stroll the streets sharing strained small talk. But as the hours pass and day give way tonight, the two find themselves caught in a series of caffeine-imbued adventures involving unexpected people (and unforeseen trysts) that connect father and son for the first time. As the two discuss poetry, family, sex, math, death, and dreams, their experience becomes a mesmerizing 48-hour microcosm of a lifetime relationship. Both learn much about illusions and regret, about talent and redemption, and, most of all, about love. This heartwarming story has captured the modern Italian audience. 

Lost Words

Winner of the Viareggio Prize, a vivid portrait of Italy on the brink of social upheaval in the 1970s.The author Nicola Gardini, writes about the Inside an apartment building on the outskirts of Milan, the working-class residents gossip, quarrel, and conspire against each other. Viewed through the eyes of Chino, an impressionable thirteen-year-old boy whose mother is the doorwoman of the building, the world contained within these walls is tiny, hypocritical, and mean-spirited: a constant struggle. Chino finds escape in reading. One day, a new resident, Amelia Lynd, moves in and quickly becomes an unlikely companion and a formative influence on Chino. Ms. Lynd—an elderly, erudite British woman—comes to nurture his taste in literature, introduces him to the life of the mind, and offers a counterpoint to the only version of reality that he’s known. On one level, Lost Words is an engrossing coming-of-age tale set in the seventies, when Italy was going through tumultuous social changes, and on another, it is a powerful meditation on language, literature, and culture.

Things That Happened Before the Earthquake

The book by Chiara Barzini describes a story about Mere weeks after the 1992 riots that laid waste to Los Angeles, Eugenia, a typical Italian teenager, is rudely yanked from her privileged Roman milieu by her hippie-ish filmmaker parents and transplanted to the strange suburban world of the San Fernando Valley. With only the Virgin Mary to call on for guidance as her parents struggle to make it big, Hollywood fashion, she must navigate her huge new public high school, complete with Crips and Bloods and Persian gang members, and a car-based environment of 99-cent stores and obscure fast-food franchises and all-night raves. She forges friendships with Henry, who runs his mother's movie memorabilia store, and the bewitching Deva, who introduces her to the alternate cultural universe that is Topanga Canyon. And then the 1994 earthquake rocks the foundations not only of Eugenia's home but of the future she'd been imagining for herself.

I'll Steal You Away

Italian literary superstar Niccolò Ammaniti’s novel, I’m Not Scared, prompted gushing praise, hit international bestseller lists, and was made into a smash indie film. In I’ll Steal You Away, Ammaniti takes his unparalleled empathy for children, his scythe-sharp observations, and his knack for building tension to a whole new level. In a tiny Italian village, a young boy named Pietro is growing up tormented by bullies and ignored by his parents. When an aging playboy, Graziano Biglia, returns to town, a change is in the air: Pietro decides to take on the bullies, his lonely teacher Flora finds romance with the town’s prodigal son, and the inept janitor at the school proclaims his love for his favorite prostitute. But the village isn’t ready for such change, and when Graziano seduces and forgets Flora, both she and Pietro’s tentative hopes seem crushed forever. With great tenderness, Ammaniti shines light on the heart-wrenching failures and quiet redemptions of ordinary people trying to live extraordinary lives.

Heaven and Earth: A Novel Every summer Teresa follows her father to his childhood home in Puglia, down in the heel of Italy, a land of relentless, shimmering heat, centuries-old olive groves and families who have lived there for generations. She spends long afternoons enveloped in a sunstruck stupor, reading her grandmother's paperbacks.

Everything changes the summer she meets the three boys who live on the farm next door: Nicola, Tommaso and Bern—the man Teresa will love for the rest of her life. Raised like brothers on a farm that feels to Teresa almost suspended in time, the three boys share a complex, intimate, and seemingly unassailable bond.But no bond is unbreakable and no summer truly endless, as Teresa soon discovers.Because there is resentment underneath the surface of that strange brotherhood, a twisted kind of love that protects a dark secret. And when Bern—the enigmatic, restless gravitational center of the group—commits a brutal act of revenge, not even a final pilgrimage to the edge of the world will be enough to bring back those perfect, golden hours in the shadow of the olive trees.

An unforgettable story of enduring love, the bonds between men, and the all-too-human search for meaning, Heaven and Earth is Paolo Giordano at his best: an author capable of unveiling the depths of the human soul, who has now given us the old-fashioned pleasure of a big, sprawling novel in which to lose ourselves

[where-theres-smoak-2]

Riverdale 5x08 Thoughts

So usually I would write a review for an episode where I go really in depth and analyse everything that happened in the episode, give you all some of my theories for next but to be honest I just don’t have the energy for that. I thought after a couple of days processing everything and giving the episode a rewatch I would be able to but nope. So instead here are just some thoughts and opinions on the episode. Again just my own opinions I am sure there will be some out there who disagree and that is fine. Also there are spoilers. 

1) So I didn’t like this episode and a large, well to be honest nearly all of that was because of the writing. The writing in this episode wasn’t their best and made me dislike so many of the characters, I mean they were all doing things that just seemed really random and out of the blue and I think the reason why it felt this way is because it was too rushed and these were character arcs that should have spread across several episodes but were instead crammed into well not even one episode really, it was more like half an episode. I just feel like in the first half the episode nothing really happened and then the second half everything happened which was really jarring. Overall too many storylines in this episode just felt rushed and alot of them just didn’t make sense. 

2) Ok so the key party was way too hyped up for what it was. It had the potential to be soo much more interesting than it was. I mean it lasted no time at all and not much really happened I mean half the characters walked out and the other left with the people they came with. The most interesting thing that happened was the kiss between Reggie and Fangs. I also find it kind of funny that this was a key party and yet the only people who actually end up sleeping together is Eric and Minerva, off screen but its still heavily implied. I just think that the writers hyped this up to be some big dramatic scene and then nothing really happened. And like even within the show Cheryl really hyped the key party up, with all that talk about throwing some chaos at it, and it’ll be a sexual switcheroo, one last night of wanton abandonment to remind them of their youth and yup literally nothing happened. If I had written this scene I actually would have had Eric go first and pull Minerva’s key to set up the fun vibe. Then followed with Reggie to keep that oh this is kind of fun vibe going. Then I would have had Betty pull Archie’s key first or rather instead of Veronica pulling it. Then maybe Kevin could have made some kind of comment or joke about how Betty and Archie have already been hooking up, then Veronica could seem shocked and question them about it, which leads to Chad accusing her of being jealous of Archie and still having feelings for Archie, which leads to Archie standing up for Veronica and telling Chad to leave her alone, which leads to Betty asking Archie if he has feelings for Veronica. They could also have then ended the scene with Jughead drunkenly deciding to pick a key because he just can’t deal with this drama right now which interrupts all the arguments and leaves everything between all those couples unresolved at the key party which could then lead into those scenes that followed. It would have been more dramatic and tense but would still have lead to the same place if that’s where the writers really felt they wanted to go though I have my own opinions on that too. 

3) Kevin. Oh Kevin I just, I don’t know what was going on with him this episode. I mean the opening was shocking, I do think the writers wrote that well, it did kind of send you for a loop and wonder what the hell Kevin was doing, because it did look like a was cheating on Fangs but then later we get the reveal that they are actually in an open relationship. Which fair do’s. However Kevin just seemed very self destructive in this episode it was like he wanted him and Fangs to fail. Something is clearly going on with Kevin and the synopsis for episode 9 talked about Kevin having to face something dark from his past so I am assuming his behaviour this episode has something to do with that. My theory is that it is related to the storyline from Katy Keene with Kevin and that Director Lester Darin. Whatever it is I do think he needs to talk with Fangs about it. I was 100% on Fangs side when he pointed out that they were having a baby together and asked what about Toni. Like a child isn’t something you should mess about with if Kevin wasn’t ready then he shouldn’t have brought up having children. And that’s what’s so odd about this situation is we find out that Kevin is the one that pushed for it all, it was him that wanted to have the open relationship, it was him who wanted to get married and it was him who wanted to have a child. Also its not just Kevin and Fangs who are involved in this its Toni too, Kevin needs to get his head on straight and fast because that baby is coming and soon. Look I wasn’t entirely happy with the Kangs storyline this episode because once again it felt rushed. It again felt like it should have been drawn out over several episodes. Just in this episode we for a moment believed that Kevin was cheating, then we found out they were in an open relationship, then we found out they were getting engaged, then we found out they and Toni were all having a baby together, which you know  I called that all the back when they first announced Toni was going to be pregnant post time jump, we get all this infodump in the first half of the episode then by the end of the episode Kevin and Fangs are on the rocks. A lot of people are saying that they have broken up and I’m not sure they have technically broken up, they definitely aren’t in a good place though. But again if they had just had the engagement and baby announcement in say 5x04, then revealed the whole open relationship in say 5x06 it would have felt like a much more fleshed out story and not as rushed. 

4) Ok so this is one that has probably split some opinions in the fandom but I want to talk about Veronica. Now I do want to make it clear that I am not hating on Veronica here but there were some things she did this episode that I was not a fan of and again I think alot of it was just bad writing. I was not a fan at all of the way Veronica used Archie to make Chad jealous, to me that was very petty and very childish and yes I know that Chad was also behaving childish but I was kind of hoping Veronica would rise above it. I also was not a fan of the way she was flirting with Archie whilst still married to Chad, I don’t care how crappy of a person Chad is that still made me uncomfortable. But on the flip side of that like with the whole Barchie cheating storyline I am aware that people can make mistakes and get caught up in their feelings, I mean they are still only young adults, so they are still growing and learning. I think the thing  that bothers me the most with Veronica or rather I should say the way they wrote Veronica is that whilst Betty and Archie clearly showed that they felt remorse and guilt for cheating Veronica did not seem to give two hoots about the fact that she was flirting with her ex behind her husband’s back. And I know people will say ‘oh but Chad’s a bad person and treats her bad.’ Ok fine then just leave him, that's not an excuse to behave that way. Also the other thing that bothered me was her attitude at the key party when she pulled Archie’s key. Now at first I thought that meant Archie would go home with them both if they followed the rules but then when I rewatched it I realised that when someone picked keys they would then retrieve their own from the bowl. After Veronica announces ‘oh look I’ve got Chad’s keys’ she then picks her own up out of the bowl. Also the fact that Kevin and Fangs both had their own keys in the bowl and yet they left with separate people. So I actually think Chad and Veronica were going to leave with separate people so it wasn’t that the three of them would be hooking up it was that Veronica was going to leave to hook up with Archie. It makes sense then that Chad would not be comfortable with this. I mean I can’t blame Chad for not wanting his wife to leave a swingers party with not just her ex but with the same guy who Veronica was deliberately using to try and make him jealous and who he has already voiced his suspicions about. The part that bothered me was when Chad first protested she said don’t be rude those are the rules, I was just like girl what are you on, she might as well have said ‘don’t be rude Chad I want to have sex with my ex and you need to be happy about it ok’ and yet a few moments later when it gets too tense for her liking and she gets Chad’s keys instead and Cheryl says that’s breaking the rules, she tells Cheryl to call her lawyer. So basically when it suits her and she wants an excuse to hook up with her ex its the rules but when it becomes an inconvenience then she’s breaking the rules and you can call her lawyer. It just did not paint Veronica in a good light at all in my opinion. But I also hated that scene when Chad confronts her asking if she just called him to humiliate and make him jealous. Firstly this tells us that Veronica called her husband and asked him to come to the party with her which really why would you do that if you are having feelings for another man and you felt like you needed time away from your husband? It makes no sense. Also she lied and then said no she wasn’t trying to make him jealous and the way she said it made it seem like she was insulted that he would even think that. Again didn’t paint Veronica in a good light. Also to be clear I am not saying that because it didn’t paint Veronica in a good light that it did paint Chad in a good light, he’s still trash but I don’t really care about him so you know whatever. And once again I was not ok with the fact that what brings her to the realisation that she needs to end her marriage was again the fact that he wasn’t ok with her hooking up with her ex at a key party. Like I am sure this isn’t how the writers meant it to come across but that’s how it did and I just feel like there were so many other ways and other things that could have brought her to that realisation then the key party. I also I was not ok with the fact that literally 5 seconds after she decides to divorce Chad she is making out with Archie. I just, no it’s too fast and it’s too rushed. I do not think it was necessary for them to kiss in that moment. Like it would have been fine if she had just said you know ,’I’m divorcing my husband,’ and then have Archie have some kind of look not even necessarily say anything and leave it there. It would have left some intrigue for next episode like ooh does this mean they are going to rekindle things, will they kiss next episode. Instead because of how close it was to her deciding to divorce her husband the scene where they reunite just felt icky to me, I mean the ink on her divorce papers isn’t even dry yet, hell scratch that it isn’t even wet yet because she only made the decision to divorce she hasn’t even filed for divorce yet so technically she’s still married. But more than all of that my biggest problem with Veronica’s storyline this episode is once again it revolves around the men in her life. Like the writers seem incapable of writing this woman as single. Even when Archie left Riverdale in season 3 which would have been the perfect opportunity to have Veronica be single for a while they matched her with Reggie. Now don’t get me wrong I loved those two together in fact out of all the people Veronica has been with her and Reggie are my favourite, I just think they worked really well together. But again it brings me to another thing that made me feel uncomfortable and that is I’m sensing this pattern with Veronica where she’ll be with someone when Archie is away and then when he comes back she’ll ditch the other person for Archie. Which would be ok if it weren’t for the fact that she always seems to do it in a way that makes it look like she doesn’t have any care for the other person’s feelings. Unfortunately this makes Veronica seem not just disloyal but kind of cold and that’s not a true testament to Veronica’s character at all. I just get so frustrated with the way they write for her sometimes. I mean there was so much that was badly written about her marriage to Chad and just this episode in general as I said before painted alot of the characters in a bad light. I just wish they would keep Veronica single for a while and write a storyline that is solely about her because there is a heck of a lot more to her character than just who she’s attracted to.  

5) Ok Archie, this episode I just. To be honest I’m still too mad about it to even really talk much about it. I feel like out of everyone, the one the writers made look the worst this episode was Archie. I mean outside of who you ship, that conversation he has with Eric after Betty calls him because of her nightmare, was just well I don’t have words for what it was. It made it seem like all he cared about was sex and that he was annoyed/ didn’t care that Betty was upset. This is not our Archie Andrews, in no world would he be that cold about Betty upset he has always been there for her. It wasn’t just insulting to Barchie it was insulting to Archie’s character and who he is at his core which is someone who always cares about his friends above all else. 

6) Cheryl is once again going about everything the wrong way. I could understand her being a little upset at the fact that Toni is making this big happy non traditional family for herself because she probably thought that one day it would be her and Toni having the baby and so this might make her feel left out. I mean she was genuinely happy for Kangs when they announced their engagement. So its not like she doesn’t want anyone to be happy when she’s not. I also feel like given that Toni came to see her twice during the time jump which we learn when her and Archie are catching up in 5x04 that maybe originally she was hoping to include Cheryl in the whole baby thing and raise the baby all four of them together. A part of me still hopes that might happen but I feel like there needs to be alot of growing and healing for all four of the characters first. However unfortunately Cheryl’s jealousy at the situation leads to her being too manipulative and she arranges the key party so that she can show Toni how ‘fragile some unions can be’ and makes her the creepiest nursery in the world hoping that they can all hole up in Thorn Hill together. I am glad that Toni called Cheryl out on her manipulation I do think Cheryl needed that. Also as a side note I was expecting some explanation as to why Toni won’t be appearing in the next few episodes but at first I thought we didn’t. But then again on the rewatch I realised they kind of did. When Cheryl comes barging in after the baby announcement Toni tells her that she wants to take a step back from the Vixens. But then Cheryl interrupts her. I think the writers were expecting us to put the rest together ourselves which is Toni now that she’s nearing the end of her pregnancy she is likely going to be staying at home more and resting up.  

7) I am ok with the kiss between Cheryl and Minerva. My hope is that Minerva is not going to manipulate her in some way and that this relationship will give Cheryl something that will make her a better person so that when she is ready to go back to Toni she has learnt something if that makes sense.  

8) Ok so I want to talk about some positives because at this point it feels more like a rant than anything else and there were some things I liked in this episode. Obviously as a Barchie shipper I thought the firefighter scene in the beginning of the scene was really sweet and it was very aesthetically pleasing with all the candles and everything, it was just a well shot scene. 

9) I am very intrigued by Jughead’s blackouts and trauma that he experienced in New York. I do have a theory that the visions he is seeing of the mothman and how twice they are shown as a reflection is suppose to be because he is seeing the mothman/ this monster in himself. I really do think that Jughead killed someone while blacked out and subconsciously he remembers it but he’s so traumatised by it he’s keeping it repressed. Now whether he killed someone accidently, or whether it was self defence or the drugs just made him lose it on someone I’m not sure but I am convinced that he is responsible for someone death somehow. 

10) As always I loved Jughead and Tabitha’s interaction this episode. Tabitha is an absolute angel and such a supportive friend. The way she went to the support group with him and got him to open up to her. How she took care of him after the key party. She’s clearly come to care about him a lot and its nice to see someone supporting Jughead. 

Ok and that’s it for this episode. I don’t have any theories for next episode but I’ve also kind have lost any enthusiasm I had for the show which is frustrating because up until this episode I was really enjoying this season but this episode was so bad its literally knocked the wind right out of me.                  

[alcalavicci]

1988 interview with Dean. This is a really good one and helps bring more of his life into perspective. Note: the newspaper originally censored his swearing, but I’ve put it back.

Guthman, Edward. "Dean Stockwell: Third Time's a Charm." The San Francisco Examiner (San Francisco, California), August 14, 1988.

“Six years ago, Dean Stockwell's acting career had turned to dust. Reduced to playing parts in unreleasable, made-in-Mexico movies that now make him cringe, Stockwell decided to chuck it all and get out of Hollywood.

“Along with his second wife, Joy, Stockwell moved to Santa Fe, settled down under the wide New Mexico sky and applied for a real estate license. He even placed an ad in Daily Variety to announce his exile: 'Dean Stockwell will help you with all your real estate needs in the new center of creative energy.'

“Stockwell never sold a house; he didn't need to. Instead, almost as soon as he'd relocated, things started happening to the former 1940s child star. It began with a small part in David Lynch's 'Dune,' and escalated with an important supporting role in Wim Wenders' highly regarded 'Paris, Texas.'

“Moving back to California to cash in on his fortune, Stockwell acted in 'Beverly Hills Cop II,' 'Gardens of Stone,' and 'To Live and Die in L.A.' He also played a cameo role, as Howard Hughes, in the newly released 'Tucker: The Man and His Dream.' And in 'Blue Velvet,' David Lynch's American nightmare, he delivered a chilling cameo as Ben, a waxlike, sexually ambiguous drug dealer.

“And now, at 52, Stockwell says he's found 'the favorite role I've had, by far.'

“The picture is 'Married to the Mob,' a dark, romantic comedy by Jonathan Demme ('Melvin and Howard,' 'Stop Making Sense') and Stockwell plays Mafia don Tony 'the Tiger' Russo. Wearing an Al Capone fedora and full-length vicuna coat, Tony is a rich, sardonic, larger-than-life character -- the kind Stockwell has never had a chance to play until now.

“Opening Friday at the Galaxy and UA the Movies, 'Married to the Mob' has been touted as Demme's first shot at a genuine box-office winner. Set in Long Island, New Jersey and Florida, it stars Michelle Pfeiffer as Angela DeMarco, a young Mafia wife who tries to start a new life when her husband, Frankie 'the Cucumber' DeMarco, is pumped full of lead during a hot-tub tryst at the Fantasia Motel.

“When Stockwell's character isn't ordering hits, drug deals and the dumping of toxic waste, he's lusting assiduously after the gorgeous widow. Meanwhile, bumbling FBI agent Mike Downey (played by Matthew Modine) is jumping through hoops trying to shadow Angela and 'catch Tony with his pants down.' Instead, he falls in love with Angela.

“During a recent luncheon interview, not far from his central California home, Stockwell spoke about the film, about his new happiness as the father of two children and about the bizarre trajectory of his long career. Dressed in a long-sleeved shirt and slacks, wearing a Panama hat and drawing first on a cigaret, later on a cigar, Stockwell emanates prosperity and calm.

“'I don't know why I was unemployed so long,' he says, reflecting on a fallow period that started in the '60s and lasted the better part of two decades. 'The only thing I can figure out in my own mind is that, for some reason or another, I was being made to wait until a certain time in my life when my talent would reach its full maturity and fruition.'

“Ironically, he says, he felt just as equipped 10 years ago to do the work he's doing now -- 'only I couldn't get fucking arrested.'

“Today, Stockwell sees harmony in the fact that his new success coincides with the arrival of two children. His son, Austin, will be 5 in November, and his daughter, Sophia, turns 3 this month. Inordinately proud and protective, he refuses to allow his children to be photographed, and also requests that the town in which he and his family reside not be named. (There were no children from his first marriage, to Millie Perkins, which lasted from 1960 to 1962.)

“'I want to make a lot of money and I want to put it away for my children,' he says. To that end, Stockwell has been snapping up job offers. 'A lot of people ask me, "How have you been able to choose these wonderful things you're doing? Have you been very selective?" And I have to tell them, "I haven't been choosing what I'm doing." Things have been coming and I've been accepting virtually anything that's come.'

“Stockwell's ambition is so great that, for the first time in his life, he actively pursues aspects of his career that he once shunned- interviews, for example.

“'My entire motivation in life is my family,' he says. 'I don't need to get an award. I don't need recognition. I've had that already. What I need is to provide. The best way I can provide is to be successful, and the best way I can be successful is to take advantage of all the things at my disposal to achieve that, one of which certainly is press.'

“Take a look at the young Stockwell, specifically the version that emerges from old magazine and newspaper interviews, and you meet another person altogether.

“Robbed of a normal childhood, Stockwell had made 22 films by the time he was 15 -- including 'The Boy with Green Hair,' 'Kim,' 'Anchors Aweigh,' and the Oscar-winning 'Gentleman's Agreement.' Working nonstop, he had a privileged life that millions of children probably envied, but he loathed it nonetheless.

“The son of show-business parents -- his father, Harry Stockwell, was the voice of the Prince in 'Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs,' and his mother, Betty Veronica, was a former stage dancer -- Stockwell made his professional debut at 7. It all happened by a fluke: when Stockwell accompanied his older brother, Guy, on a Broadway audition, the casting director took a liking to both boys, and cast each one. The play, aptly enough, was called 'Innocent Voyage,' and it led to an MGM contract for curly-haired Dean.

“From the beginning, the pressure on young Stockwell was intense. His parents had divorced when he was 6, and when his father defaulted on child-support payments, Dean reluctantly became the family provider. Over a six-year period, he averaged three to four films per year.

“At home, he says, 'There was a lot of friction... I was getting all the attention, but I hated it. [Guy] couldn't appreciate that, because he wasn't getting the attention. He had all these friends, his peer group, that he took for granted. I had none and I resented him for being able to live that way. I was fucking lonely.'

“When he was 13, chained to a seven-year contract, Stockwell was described by one magazine as 'a young rebel who despises acting and resents every moment it takes from his fleeting boyhood.' Many years later, Stockwell told columnist Hedda Hopper, 'Child actors exist in a sort of limbo between childhood and maturity and belong to neither. Adults take them too seriously and other children are either awed or hostile. A child actor can find friends in neither group.'

“Finally, Stockwell fled Hollywood when he was 16. He cut off his curly locks, started using his real name, Robert Stockwell, and for the next five years roamed the country, working menial jobs and disavowing his true identity. 'People that might have known me from seeing my films knew me as a young child,' he remembers. 'Now I was 17 and I wasn't that recognizable.'

“Around the time of his 21st birthday, Stockwell was pushing papers as mail boy to a Manhattan plumbing firm. 'Of all the jobs that I'd had in those intervening years,' he remembers. 'I think I hated that worse than anything. I came to the realization I had no training at anything. My primary education was very skimpy, very poor, and happened under the worst type of conditions. I was literally at the mercy of the world.'

“Most of Stockwell's childhood earnings were squandered by crooked accountants, he says, and he knew that the tiny sum being held in a trust wouldn't last forever. 'So I thought, "What am I gonna do? Well, let's go back and attack this [acting career] again, and see if I can do it a little more on my terms."'

“What followed for Stockwell was a brief but impressive 'second career.' He starred in the 1959 film 'Compulsion,' based on the Leopold-Loeb case of the '20s, and won a joint acting award with Orson Welles and Bradford Dillman at the Cannes Film Festival. He played the lead in the 1960 film of D. H. Lawrence's 'Sons and Lovers,' and in 1962 scored the plum role of Edmund Tyrone in Sidney Lumet's film version of 'Long Day's Journey Into Night,' holding his own alongside Katharine Hepburn, Ralph Richardson and Jason Robards.

“Stockwell was winning the best parts, but found his attention drifting elsewhere. What was happening, he says, were the first signs of the '60s youth revolution. 'It captured my imagination as much as anybody's. And it represented to me -- I can see this in retrospect -- something in childhood that I had missed: the freedom and loving being alive, without responsibilities and work and having to report to the studio every day, and deal with fans and interviews and shit that I hated when I was a kid.'

“So Stockwell called his agent, said, 'I'm not workin',' and dropped out once again. When he tried to come back three years later, though, 'I found it very difficult, 'cause I'd been out-of-sight, out-of-mind.' What followed was a long period of marginal employment: He found some TV work, took parts in low-budget trash ('The Dunwich Horror') and occasional oddities (Dennis Hopper's 'The Last Movie') and co-directed a film with musician Neil Young ('Human Highway') but often just didn't work at all. At one point, he went 18 months without a job.

“Today, along with his buddy Hopper, Stockwell is enjoying a major career renaissance. And with his starring role in 'Married to the Mob,' he says, he's never felt more confident.

“'I knew before I started the film that this character was going to work in spades,' he says, adding that Demme, as director, deserves credit for taking a risk with such offbeat casting. Instead of picking Peter Falk, Vincent Gardenia or another ethnically identified actor to play the Mafia don, he went with Stockwell (who is actually half-Italian on his mother's side).

“Demme's inspiration occurred on a flight from Los Angeles to New York, when he opened a copy of the Hollywood Reporter. Stockwell had just changed agents, and in order to announce the fact, had taken out a full-page ad. Demme saw the picture, and instantly recognized his Tony.

“Weirdly enough, Stockwell made another film immediately prior to 'Married to the Mob': a Canadian feature called 'Palais Royale,' due for an October release, in which he plays a character almost identical to Tony Russo.

“'It's very curious,' he says. 'For all my years I'd never had a role like this come my way, and here it was twice. The Mafia don in New York, the Mafia don in Toronto, both of them colorful and charming and also threatening. And I just thought, "What am I gonna do? It's the same character." So I decided to do the same character in both those movies.'

“To take the coincidence 'one nauseating step further,' Stockwell says he's also got a part in the recently completed 'Backtrack,' Hopper's next film. This time he plays a corrupt mob lawyer, dropping the Italian accent for a generalized East Coast sound.

“It would be difficult to find a film actor who's busier than Stockwell at this moment. And it would be difficult to find anyone whose job history better illustrates the vicissitudes, serendipities and insecurity of a Hollywood career.

“Looking back on his misfortunes -- at the career that he was forced to accept as a child, and the humiliation he felt when he couldn't maintain it as an adult -- Stockwell says he's not bitter. 'When you reach your maturity, I think it behooves you to accept the fact that it's absolutely futile and fruitless even to speculate on changing anything in your life. All you can do is get embittered. So I accept everything that's happened as part of my life, and try to push it in a positive direction from the moment right now.'”

[trilies]

an argument for AO3

So I’m in a conversation with someone who is kind of in the “against AO3″ camp, and they asked me a couple of questions. Namely, who wouldn’t be uncomfortable with pedophilia? Isn’t it sketchy that a beta website is asking for so much money despite reaching its goals?

And my answer became so long... I figured it might as well become its own post. Please bear in mind that this is cut from a whole conversation.

But here it is.

------

No. It doesn't seem sketchy to me at all. Why would it? I know we make jokes about how much money tumblr has cost the various sites which purchase it like Yahoo, but there's some truth there: it's really expensive to host a website to thousands and thousands of people. It's why we see so many tumblr owners trying to shoehorn in ads or make people buy services, or why Photobucket tried to pull that truly atrocious bullshit a year or two back. Without image hosting capabilities (tumblr and photobucket's big thing), the strain isn't as huge.... but AO3 is MASSIVE. It is hosting literally thousands of accounts, millions of stories. That's massive on a server scale alone, ignoring all the other work they do. Yeah, it's in beta... but that's because it's trying to reach a goal of being as good a fanfic archive as they can be, and they don't believe they've reached that goal yet. Being in beta means they can better listen to their uses on shit like tagging systems and make those changes. Not to mention, again, they are INCREDIBLY transparent. If you are worried about where the money is going, you can go on the site and they have all their stuff up there.

As for the pedophilia subject matter.... Please give me a moment. because there's honestly a lot to say on that particular issue, if nothing else. This will take a while, so if you see this and there hasn't been a reply yet.... I'm still typing lmao.

To start with, of course people are uncomfortable about pedophilia. However, there are a lot of problems with how pedophilia is viewed or *used* as an accusation in the current fandom climate.

For example, in honestly EXTREMELY recent times, I was told I was "defending" pedophilia because I disagreed that a character (an immortal food gijinka) was "minor-coded" or "designed as an underage teenager". (As a note, an argument for this view was that the character's breasts were too small.) When I pointed out, hey, that's kind of a fucked up accusation to throw at a complete stranger, especially as I am a CSA survivor, I was told "You have to be lying about that, then, because a real CSA survivor would understand."

c o o l

That's just my personal experience that happened within a couple of months. Other people have talked about running into people who think that a character turning 18 means they're a pedophile for still dating a 17 year old. Or running into people who think a 40 year old dating someone in their 30s is pedophilic. Or believe that even SHIPPING characters who were not yet 18 was pedophilic if you yourself were over 18.

(Of course, you also have the kinds of people who try to use Moral Purity as a way to bash ships they don't like. I once saw someone try to claim that a popular mlm ship, A/B, was pedophilic because one half of the equation looked young.... when some other artists drew him... Of course, on the side, this person liked to also get angry that *their* favorite ship, a dude/chick ship composing of A/C, wasn't more popular. So. You know.)

So that's one half of the problem: the word "pedophile" being so warped that a lot of people now have no idea if the person using it has a genuine concern or if the accuser is trying to smear someone who doesn't ship the same thing. FFnet and Tumblr have gone with the "burn it all down" approach, which hasn't actually helped anyone and is, to boot, sloppily moderated. So we know from history, from experience in cases like mine, that it doesn't help in that area.

The other half of the problem is... How far is too far?

This is where "anti" culture begins to find similarities with the whole Warriors for Innocence thing. If you completely and blindly block an entire tag, or anyone associated with it, you have to ask: who are you hurting? Warriors for Innocence hurt actual rape victim, and queer folk, and a whole lot of others. Far as I can tell, anti culture is on the route to the same thing, because I have yet to see appropriate answers to a lot of issues.

If one says "anything with underage sex in it is bad and should be banned", what about fics that tackle it in a serious manner? The young adult novel "Speak" deals with rape of an underage girl and how she works through that mental trauma; are fics with stories equivalent to that allowed? Do fics with underage sex have to focus purely on how it is Horrible And Bad to be allowed? Does only a chapter have to be allowed? A paragraph? An author's note? A tag? Or are we allowed to never explore dark subject matter?

Is fic with underage content in it only horrible if it's someone over the age of eighteen who writes it? Can a teenager write smut (terribly written as it may likely be) between teenage characters? Can a teenager write smut between a teenage character and an adult character? For the record, i did in fact, over the summer, run into someone who said that teens/minors "shouldn't even know about NSFW", which is asinine to me, because Abstinence Only is a terrible thing to put in schools, and somehow worse in a way when you try to put that into effect in fandom. If the answer is 'yes', what are you going to do, demand to see people's birth certificates in fandom?

(As a note, I think this is a terrible message to put into fandom for teenagers because I believe it will inevitably lead to self hatred and a warped view of sex. If you make the extremely simplified black-and-white statement of "teens and sex should never go together ever in any way", that's going to mess up teens who are starting to experience arousal in their bodies. The message, whether intended or not, ends up as "NSFW things are bad, which means my brain which thought NSFW thoughts is bad, and my brain thought those thoughts because my body had these feelings". )

(This is bad for any average teenager. This will be especially worse to CSA and rape victims, along with queer youth who, in a lot of places, are still struggling with their bodies and/or feelings because the world is still pretty damn queerphobic.)

Speaking of CSA and rape victims, what about those of them who write/read underage ships or dark content as a way to cope with what happened or Just Because? That's a thing lots of us do, especially those of us who don't look like the Perfect Victims people can use as an excuse for whatever crusade they're waging. I've heard anti types go "Well, it's an unhealthy way to cope" or claims that CSA/rape victims who write such dark content are "just as bad as their abusers"... But are they psychiatrists/therapists? Are they the psychiatrists/therapists of *those specific people*? Will you moderate this kind of content by forcefully interrogating CSA/rape victims to out their trauma to a complete stranger? Will you demand to speak to their therapists? Over fanfic?

When I was a teenager, I wrote all sorts of stuff. I wrote dark dub-con fic, because I liked to explore those dark feelings in the process and the aftermath separate from myself. I wrote a fic with a fairly young teenage girl (what age was kh2 kairi? who even knows, I sure didn't) falling for a MUCH older man built like a brick shit house so that there was never any doubt to him being an adult, even giving him her first kiss, because they were my favorite characters, I wanted both of them to have a moment of happiness (that i promptly ruined but hey), and, *in this fic*, I knew it would be alright. I knew the girl would always be in control, she'd be the one making moves, that the guy was nonthreatening and kind and protect her and work alongside her.

(and then I began the process of killing him off in the next paragraph through him saving her life, but, like. Drama (tm), baby)

This was all good for me. At an age where I was young, vulnerable, and figuring out weird shit like arousal and romantic feelings, it was *invaluable* to have a space where I could explore all of that while relatively safe from actual danger, even if the stuff I wanted to explore was a little messed up. This whole thing against AO3 wouldn't have helped me, and I'm pretty sure it's not helping a lot of other people too.

There is an issue with underage people and sex stuff- not just in fandom but in culture at large. We have Hollywood dressing up young girl actresses in super slinky or revealing clothes. We have schools saying girls basically should never wear shorts, and capitalism fucking this up further by only selling SUPER SHORT shorters. We have media of all sorts giving us adults, whether in real actors or character design, in the roles of young people. (See: "how do you do, fellow kids") We should probably take more care about fandom spaces, so that people of all ages don't feel pressured to engage in sexual shit they're not 100% game for or into, or just have it shoved into their faces without consent. It's a complex issue... and it's not stuff that can just be 'banned' and have that fix it.

AO3 has on its plate a very complex problem that will, if we're all honest, never have a perfect answer. It has given us the best that can possibly be asked for. It obeys the law by not having actual child pornography on it (aka visual proof of actual real children, defined by us law as such), which is closest to "objective" we can get at the current stage in humanity and state of fandom. It has a very comprehensive and moderated tag system, so that people can post warnings along their fic so that people don't stumble onto shit they don't need to, and so that people can moderate their own reading experience to some degree.

If some people aren't comfortable with AO3, that's fine. However, most of us are getting annoyed not with those people, but with the people who just blindly say "AO3 supports child porn and is probably stealing money" (statement simplified for the purpose of this post). It shows an ignorance of the fandom history that lead us here, no understanding in either AO3's practices or how expensive it is to run a site, and no consideration for how complex this problem can really be. It would be great if this was a black and white issue, if there was an easy answer as just "banning" certain kinds of content... but there isn't. And that's where I am.

[allthebest20]

Butter Honey Pig Bread by Francesca Ekwuyasi

8/10.  A joy to read and a great debut novel. I think the author has even better work ahead of her.  The characters are complex and unique, and the book explores modernity, pain, and generational spirituality in a very readable style.  I couldn’t help but make assumptions about the author as I read the book: definitely Nigerian, definitely a cook, definitely spent time in London and Canada, definitely queer, definitely raised in the Church, but also definitely spiritual.  The authenticity with which she writes, especially in regards to being queer in the modern world and the cultures of different places, is what makes this book great.  The story dances between the gruesome details of reality in the twenty-first century and romanticized views of youth and love. It raises a lot of questions in me about the international class system, wealth, and privilege.  

The only real complaint that I have is around one of the main plot points: the rape of Kehinde when she is 12.  While this is a turning point in all their lives, I feel as though it is also simultaneously underappreciated, as if the author choose this event simply because it was one of the worst things she could think of.  I think this is a common pit fall for authors.  A lot of traumatic things happen to this family: Kambi, the mother, is very mental ill, Banji, the twin’s beloved father, is murdered, Taiye, the queer twin, struggles with her own mental health.  Yet, the rape is regarded as the primary Bad Thing and all the other traumatic events are hardly discussed.  I appreciate how the author takes some time, maybe 1 chapter, to discuss Kehinde’s relationship to sex and her body.  Yet, Kehinde’s life seems to be mostly unaffected by this event, except in the way she punishes her family with her silence.  She is in a healthy relationship.  She does not abuse alcohol or drugs.  She has a successful career.  Ultimately, it’s not a book about overcoming childhood sexual abuse.  It’s a book about mending a family after years of pain, resentment, distance, and silence.  I almost feel as though the book could have been stronger if it focused more on the effects of Banji’s death and Kambi’s violence and depression on the twins.  Ultimately, though, sexual abuse is just a thing that happens to a lot of kids, and perhaps it serves a purpose to write a book where it happens, it’s horrible, but it doesn’t need to be put under a magnifying glass.  It just reverberates.

This book could have been about a lot of things.  When I picked it off the shelf at the library, I barely read the entire description, immediately caught by the spiritual nature of Kambi’s being and the brief mention of “reckless hedonism.”  I was pleasantly surprised to find out that Taiye was a lesbian, and I saw a lot of myself in her: the serial string of intense relationships, always slated to go nowhere, the indulgence in food and weed and dancing and occasionally other drugs, the loneliness and missing family but not being able to connect with them, the exploration of religion and spirituality and non-monogamy, seeing and feeling things you don’t know are real.  I feel like a lot of modern young adults live like Taiye does, unsure what to look for except comfort.  I love how the author mentioned the chaotic draw of dating apps.  I love how Taiye is a stoner.  I love how Taiye loves organic butter and fair trade chocolate and cooking extravagant meals for anyone who will eat it.  I LOVE how the author includes recipes for what Taiye is cooking.  Although I probably won’t use those recipes, I did want to cook what Taiye was cooking, and it reads just like my brain reads when I am absorbed in a culinary project.  This book could have been more about what it means to be a lesbian, but it only barely describes her formative romantic and sexual experiences.  The author details the first time Taiye calls her self gay out loud and has queer sex, but this is long after she has had gay feelings and gay experiences.  The author does not explore Taiye’s inner turmoil, and it is unclear if Taiye struggles at all with her sexuality in the long term.

I also like how the book explores mental illness.  It doesn’t shy away from both the good and the bad parts.  It doesn’t shame medication use.  It explores the spiritual powers of those who’s brains work differently.  Kambi’s voice explores suicide in an interesting way: both from the frequent pull of the voices, asking Kambi to escape the pain of living, and Kambi’s own knowledge that she wants to remain here with her family.  Although I have perhaps 0 hard examples of mental illness being spiritual, I still want to believe that those who hear voices, who see things, who feel things, are connected to the spiritual in a way that those who live entirely in reality are not.  This book explores one such case.  I also found it interesting how Taiye inherits some of Kambi’s crazy (struggles to speak as a young child, depressed, sleep walks) and some of Kambi’s magic (draws people to her, sees and hears beyond).  This make Taiye feel closer to her mom as she ages, while Kehinde remains unsure.  This book could have been more about generational mental illness and the pain and distance it causes, but instead the author focuses on the magic of it all.  It asks, quietly, if the girls should be mad at their mother, can they be mad at her?  From the outside, Kehinde knows that Kambi is respoinsible for the scar on Taiye’s face, but yet we, the audience, know that Kambi had to do this to prevent Taiye from killing the rapist, Uncle Earnest.  Does Kehinde know this?  How can she understand?  In a family, we have no choice but to forgive and let live if we cannot understand, or else remain alienated.  This is the underlying message of the book.

The book has a complicated timeline: the main story line follows the events of a six month period in which the three main characters are united again in Lagos, after over a decade apart.  Slowly, in tangents, the three characters’ backstory is explained.

The book features a few key locations:

Nigeria (specifically Abeokuta, where Kambirinachi is born, Ife, where she spends her youth, and Lagos, where she raises her family),

London (where the twins were born and where Taiye lived for 9 years during and after university),

and Canada (Kehinde lives in Montreal since attending university there and Taiye lives in Halifax after London). 

I’ve never been to Nigeria or London, but I love the way the author writes the dialogue and the characters from each place.  I cannot say if they are accurate, but they have a clear and unique voice, not homogeneous but also representative of those place-based qualities that unite an area.  The characters give me a glimpse into what it feels like to be Nigerian abroad vs. Nigerian at home.  She rarely writes about interpersonal incidents of racism: the characters are mostly well liked, treated nicely by the people in their life, given opportunities.  I think that contributes to the feeling of romanticism in the story.  Racism is discussed on a more systematic level: they have problems at the airport, Taiye learns about the history of racism in Canada. As someone who has been to Canada, knows about the history of Canada, and lives very close to Canada, I enjoyed hearing about Taiye learning about Canada’s dark side, something that is so rarely discussed by the general public.  However, for those of us who are interested, the evidence is everywhere.  The history is just waiting to be explored by anyone who is interested in looking just slightly beyond the state-issued textbooks.  I thought the way the author wrote about Canada was really authentic, which convinces me that the way she writes about London and Nigeria must also be accurate.  What it must be like to be Ekwuyasi, so intimately familiar with places so far apart.

There was one line in the book that really stuck with me: as Taiye is traveling home, she passes through the busy streets of Lagos, crowded with street children, and she is reminded of her privilege in a very visual way, something she doesn’t get in Canada or London.  This is the view the West wants us to have of Africa: a whole continent made of dirty huts and begging children on busy urban roads.  Yes, poverty looks different in Nigeria than it does in Canada, but that doesn’t mean that everyone in Nigeria is somehow poorer.  In fact, this family has a beautiful compound and a trust fund.  Despite having a trust fund, Taiye still makes decisions on a strict budget and denies herself luxuries to save money, the way I do.  I don’t really know a lot of people with trust funds, so I can’t tell if this is an international thing or if there are American kids who act like this.  It kind of annoyed me when Taiye wrote to the culinary program saying she didn’t have enough to pay for the program, when in reality she just didn’t want to dip into her trust fund.  I don’t know if there were limited spots/funds available for people who couldn’t afford to pay full price, but I hate when rich people forget what it means to actually not have money.  Being cheap and being poor are two different things, often way more opposing than people think.  Rich people are often the ones who know how to exploit the system to get what they want for less, while the poor are left with less connections and less time to work it.

Still, I refrain from delivering too harsh judgement on Taiye. I do not know the size of the trust fund.  I know their family home was a gift, so perhaps the fund is to be saved for medical emergencies and property taxes.  I’m not sure how insurance or taxes work in Nigeria, although I know the government is very unstable.  How did they pay for international university?  Did that come from the trust fund?  The whole plot line has me thinking a lot about wealth and class on  an international level.  While I grew up comfortably, I often felt like my family was poor because of how rich everyone in our town was.  I wonder what it would have been like to grow up in a compound and see homeless children often, but also ingest international media that cast your entire country as poor and to know your government is unstable.

All in all, the book touches on many of the central issues of modern life  While it only brushes the surfaces of these topics, it had me thinking for days and wanting to know more.  Perhaps I will search out an some Nigerian autobiographies / memoirs in the future.