#a lot more people know than the fandom thinks

[signanothername]

What do u think of the trope where Blue/Swap joins the bad guy???

I have complicated feelings about it?

I love the trope in of itself, I think it would be a really interesting trope to explore

The problem tho? I never once saw it executed in a way that grabbed my attention or made me actually love the story it was used in

It immediately goes to the “asshole” Dream and Ink and “kind found family” Nightmare gang trope

Which again, if you don’t know, I hate the trope of Dream being somehow an asshole or somehow treating Swap as tho he’s less than him

Ink is a whole different story where the fandom simply villainize him just cause he’s soulless

And the kind found family Nightmare gang is a trope I love, but just like the trope of Blue joining the Nightmare gang, it’s poorly executed most of the time (and I mean, how can you call it a “Blue joins the bad guys” when the “bad guys” are shown to be good guys????)

Like, I opened so many different fics only to be hit with the same execution of this trope over and over, eventually just losing interest bxhxhdhdh

The idea of Swap not being able to “keep up” with Ink and Dream or is somehow neglecting himself to take care of Dream just doesn’t really intrigue me (or even make sense to me)

Like don’t get me me wrong, I’m an absolute sucker for the “Swap is literally the only anchor Dream has left in his life otherwise he’d fucking break down” but I dare say Swap is more than capable of handling it without it weighing him down to a significant degree

This is Swap for god’s sake, he’s literally Papyrus’ personality but in a Sans body, if anything, he’s the one who has his shit together the most and is able to go on with a genuine happy and determined smile on his face, no matter the shit that happens to him, it would make a lot more sense for Dream to be the one to try and catch up with Swap than the other way around

I get that the trope tries to show the limitations of Swap as a mortal compared to Dream and Ink who are both pretty much immortal, but what people tend to do is that they completely twist Swap to be absolutely pathetic just for this trope to work

Which *shakes the fandom* I promise you don’t have to completely change a character up to make a trope work

Like I saw stories that made Blue to be somehow a weak depressed anxious guy trying so hard and is failing and whatnot and I question myself whether that’s even Swap anymore hchcchcjvj

I think the problem I usually see when people try and write different tropes for different characters, is that they try to make the trope make sense, and so they twist the character around to fit around the trope

Which, imho, is ineffective, you should understand the character, and then think of how the character would deal with a certain situation and how that leads to the trope you’re trying to write, one step at a time without having to ignore/erase important personality traits of the character

Of course, that doesn’t mean the trope you’re trying to write can’t fundamentally change the perception, personality, or behavior of a character, but you have to show how it affects the character to such a fundamental degree, show how can the character be heavily influenced and affected in a way that makes sense for said character

For example, I’ve seen people write Swap neglecting to eat cause he’s trying to “keep up” or sometimes Dream and Ink don’t give him the chance to cause they pressure him to go on another mission or push him too hard

Here are some problems I see with this:

- why is the Nightmare gang even somehow attacking every single day? Have they got nothing better to do? Especially with the fact they’re a found family now?

- why is Dream and Ink going out for “missions” every day if the Nightmares aren’t attacking, like damn what are they even doing?? What are these “important missions”?? Since when was Ink so obsessed with “missions”?

- Swap would absolutely not let that shit stand, if anything, he’d be very vocal about it and tell Dream and Ink to sit down and eat his great delicious tacos (Swap’s voice always has power behind it, and his actions are a direct reflection of his beliefs not what others push him to do)

- Ink has a home in the doodlesphere, he wouldn’t even be around enough to push Blue, while Swap has an AU and a brother, there is pretty much no way he’d be with Dream and Ink 24/7, and if he was somehow, you think Swap Paps would let it slide? And even if we go with the idea of Swap not being part of an AU anymore, you think Swap himself would neglect himself just to please others even when it doesn’t align with his own beliefs?

And those are only few of the top of my head, I’m pretty sure if I sat down and thought about this for a few hours, I’d be able to write you a whole other set of problems

Not saying you can never write Swap neglecting to eat, you absolutely can, it’s just needs to make sense for Swap as a character, what would it take for Swap to start neglecting his health? It’s not others pressuring him or pushing him I can tell you that much

So yeah, good trope, not so good execution (for me at least)

I guess I’m way too focused on the logic of it to truly enjoy it for what it is, but then again I always love to complicate things way more than I need to

Not every trope or story has to make sense completely, but I guess seeing Swap be completely made into a pathetic mess with no actual grounds to support it beyond “he’s mortal and his friends aren’t“ just ruins it for me dhdhhdhd

[wraithdance]

https://www.tumblr.com/wraithdance/765961917651140608/i-really-liked-your-explanation-of-the-whole?source=share

I am really bad at articulating my thoughts but I think about this a lot as someone who hopes to 1- major in neuroscience (i'm 18, going to uni next year) and 2- is trans. I know being trans is not the same thing at all as POC experiences with fic, very cognizant of that, but more to the point where I relate to the aspect of not being able to get over the like mental wall of seeing "neutral" readers as me? I don't know what my brain is doing when i read certain fics but sometimes i can't do it.

I feel like I should close read some of my favorite fic and least favorite fic to see if there are triggers I didn't notice on the first read. does that make sense or seem similar to what you experience? Again I know it's not the same thing, but like i am so curious as to what cis straight white people put in their fic that makes it so obvious that they're cis straight white.

I am sorry if this bothers you, really not my intentions, I am obviously a future brain nerd and i can't stop thinking about this

Congratulations fellow Nerd! You've activated my interest in Race theory and fandom writing from an academic perspective!

Writing reflects life and to answer this question properly, I have to talk about life shit to catch you up to speed, (this should help if you take a sociology or cultural anthropology class lmao) So, Welcome to:

Calvary yaps: Sociology & Intersectionality in fandom writing 101!

Disclaimer: I'm just a random bitch on the internet who loves English and the ridiculousness of social hierarchies, this will be referencing American social constructs and in groups only, with a focus on my experience as a Black American woman who reads a shit ton of books. Don't fight me if you hate my explanation, I will simply not respond.

Read my house rules before sending me an ask, I'm just being a dumb ass rn and word vomiting my interests, so pls i beg no follow up questions unless I say I'm open to em later.

Definitions to know:

Socialization: the act of preparing individuals to participate in society by learned social norms taught in ones family or social settings like school/friend groups. (one can be socialized in gender, race, cultural practices, etc.)

Social Hierarchies: systems of social organization in which some individuals enjoy a higher social status than others (in my opinion this is a lingering safety measure from lizard brain cavemen hunter/gatherer days)

Intersectionality: A term coined by Kimberlé Crenshaw; The process of acknowledging the unique parallels a marginalized person experiences when they have more than one marginalization (ie: race, class, gender, sexuality, ability, size, etc.)

Matriarchal society: Social groups/family structures that center female figures as representatives of authority.

Implicit Bias: Unintentional bias a person may have towards a group or individual based on learned stereotypes, prejudices, perceptions based on another's background or state of being.

first, yes anon you are making sense! So the main question:

'What cis straight white people put in their fic that makes it so obvious that they're cis straight white?'

I've been mulling this question around in my head for a few days and tried to figure out how to articulate this without going into depth in Sociological theory, but I can't! So here we are lmao, this is long as fuck so TLDR here.

I've talked to a LOT of Black and PoC people over the last months because I thought I was the only one who felt strange or could tell immediately when a writer was white, despite doing the best job they could to be neutral.

Every person I spoke to agreed they could tell right away even if we don't share similar racial backgrounds.

The answer I've come up with to why that is, is because white people are socialized (taught by society/their parents how to behave) in a way many black and PoC people are not, so their reader characters will often act in a way PoC people have learned not to, so it flags for many of us.

I plan to answer another question about this at a later date so an example is with shit like:

An over deference to hyper masculine male characters (for PoC cultures like certain Black/Latine groups that are often matriarchal in nature and don’t ascribe to as many traditional gender roles, this is a flag), lack of interpersonal/familial connection, over meekness, no challenging of external factors so things just HAPPEN to the reader and lack of awareness of surroundings to name a few. 

A lot of the language of the irl world places white cis people from Western countries as the default and everyone else as others. In which, PoC people have learned to navigate the world very carefully with a hyper-focus on what will potentially bring them harm/scrutiny/ostracism especially in white dominant spaces.

That extends to when we have down time while reading or partaking in media smfh.

I'm sure you've had to learn the same as a trans person navigating cis spaces and it's the same with any marginalization! If you are disabled you have an awareness of able bodied people and their expectations, same with being fat amongst skinny people, etc.

The more marginalizations you have, the louder the rules of social hierarchies become. Which is why many marginalized ppl stick close to those who 'get it' in their social groups as an act of safety in numbers. (Many of us attempt to have strong family connection/harmony because of this)

So referring to your comment about being trans is not the same thing at all as POC experiences with fic, it is when you are a Black or PoC trans person! My angel face @/buttdumplin has spoken a lot about that as a Mexican transman reading fics by cis people!

(Please for the love of God no one come to me explaining how marginalized they are so they shouldn't be lumped in with the white ppl PoC are cognizant of, I will check myself into a psych ward)

So what does that gotta do with reading fics?

No matter what anyone thinks, it is damn near impossible to not frame your writing from the perspective of your lived experiences. It's why even when I try my hardest to make my characters not sound Black, they will always read that way because I have been Black all of my life!

And it doesn't just happen with race, go on tiktok and search male authors writing women. (or here's another article lmao)

Also ask a Southerner how they know someone has never been to the South and don't know shit about our accents when they write Graves. There are linguistic tells that flag off and why we flame actors who pick up southern accents for their roles.

(They chew on that terrible goddamn Appalachian or Louisiana Accent not realizing Southern accents come in many fonts.)

So when I read a fic about Kyle Garrick from a non black person, I can tell the writer is non black by linguistic implications, the things they emphasize about him and what they don't. It doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy reading fics from non black people, I can just tell!

And sometimes that means I, and other PoC's associate the Reader as a white OC while reading fics.

For example, all black people are not monolithic because of our cultural and regional experiences, but many of us share common threads. That's usually family involvement, colloquialisms, that stupid fucking cookie tin our elders put sewing supplies in...

Other non Black PoC people might share similar cultural practices, so when I'm reading fics from say a latina, I will cock my head and go wait.... are you...? And surely enough, they are a person of color. 

But even while reading from a non black PoC, I have to tread carefully because anti black sentiment exists in many cultures, which is why you'll hear me say Black and PoC/Non black people interchangeably.

It’s how the conversation of Implicit bias comes up, because unknowingly non white characters can sometimes be written with a hyper focus that makes them seem inhumanly one characteristic or with little to no background while the other characters are fully fleshed out.

like the character of color is just a stand in to move the plot around white characters forward. 

So all that to say, without sometimes meaning to white writers will always sound off to me in a way that my brain can pick up on in the most minuscule ways because my awareness of my blackness/otherness has been drilled in from birth and reinforced by social norms.

I can even tell immediately if a white person has been around only white spaces their whole life with the jokes they tell lol.

In the grand scheme of things the race of the writer is most important to me when something jarring comes up that slaps me away from the experience, it explains so much of the disconnect.

Every marginalized person has a threshold for what they can ignore as a ‘trigger’ before they’re ejected from reader inserts, mine is usually the association with racial historical happenings, certain gender dynamics, etc.

It's why I mention crying like a little bitch when I read my friend Jess's (Kyletogaz) TF 141 Hair series, Dragon’s (Dragonnarative-writes) Transferrable Skills, and even Xavi's (Buttdumplin) Piercing fic.

Reading those fics felt like safety and familiarity. It was a moment where I realized I could drop the mental load I had no idea I was carrying, where I was trying to prepare myself for potential emotional damage and just READ.

It's also why as a Black person who fucks with kink and sex work it's been so touch and go when navigating dark fics/kink fics/fics about Sex workers.

Because there are different rules of engagement non white kinksters have to be aware of and that leads to a point on the collective vs. Individual experience as a PoC in kink, that I’ll eventually make a post about at some point or another. Maybe…

So yeah I’m tired of yapping. I hope this long shit was enough of an explanation!! Thanks to my friends Kiko, Jules, Xavi and Folded for yapping with me so I could articulate this better!!

[bullet-prooflove]

Safe: Leroy Jethro Gibbs x Reader

Tagging: @kmc1989 @riley-kore @ilovemark1951 @love-affair-with-fandoms @mishkatelwarriorgoddess

Companion piece to:

The Ice Queen - Gibbs meets The Ice Queen for the first time.

Break The Ice - A act of decency helps Gibbs to break the ice.

Umbrella - Gibbs gets more than he bargained for when he offers you his umbrella.

Grave - You and Gibbs bump into each other in an unexpected place.

The thing that Gibbs likes most about you is that you don’t give damn about what anybody else thinks. That becomes blatantly obvious over the months he continues works with you. You’re a consummate professional, a fierce victim advocate and the most compassionate woman he’s ever met.

The way you speak to the families, it’s an art form.

He could only wish for more people like you. People who haven’t become desensitised by everything they’ve seen. People who still give a shit.

“I don’t know how you do it.” He says to you one night over drinks at a bar he’s already forgotten the name of. “How do you stay sane after seeing so much death?”

Meeting up like this, it’s starting to become a regular thing between the two of you. You’ve been doing it ever since the day you ran into each other at the cemetery. Most nights he grabs a few drinks with his team but Thursdays, he reserves those especially for you.

“I know that people think I’m cold, detached…” You say as you swirl the ice cubes around whiskey glass. “But when I look down at them, I see the person they were. Lieutenant Colchester’s calloused fingers from where he played guitar, the scar on Ensign Lopez’s knee from a cycling accident. They all had hobbies, a life, people who care about them.” You take a sip from the glass. “I guess that makes me driven.”

“It’s a good way to be.” Gibbs tells you, his gaze meeting yours. “You fight for them, even when the lead on the case tells you, you shouldn’t.”

He’s talking about the blow up they all overheard coming from Family and Sexual Violence and Threat Management Unit this afternoon. You have a dead Corporal on your table and Special Agent in Charge LaRue is shoving the file to the bottom of the pile because the deceased used to be hook to put food on the table before she joined the service.

“I’m gonna be person non-grata in that department for a very long time.” You state as you signal to the bartender for another round. “They’ve already requested another M.E.”

“It was the right thing to do.” Gibbs tells you as if it’s something irrefutable.

That’s one of the reasons you like about spending time with Gibbs. There’s no platitudes, there’s only frankness. He’s a man without an agenda and you can not express just how refreshing that is.  

“I know.” You say, pushing your used glass away from you. “I’d do it again in a heartbeat if I thought it would bring any of them justice.”

You damn well would too, he knows it.

It’s an hour later that he begins to tug on his jacket. It’s the same everytime. Eleven o’clock hits and he walks you home. Only tonight you aren’t pulling on your coat, your still sitting there, your finger tracing around the top of the glass you’ve been drinking from.

“Maeve?” He questions, tilting his head to meet your gaze.

“I think I’m gonna stay a while.” You tell him and he sits back down on his stool.

“Alright, well I’ve got nowhere else to be-”

“Jethro.” You say softly, your hand coming to rest on top of his ensuring you have his full attention. “You know that feeling you get, that frustration that builds and builds until you end up starting a fight. I get that too, only I fuck it out.”

“Oh.” He says as it dawns on him. “I’m cock blocking you.”

“You look like a big strapping Marine, ready to beat the shit out of anyone that approaches me.” You inform him and he supposes he kinda does.

“I’m not sure how comfortable I feel…” He begins because his momma taught him a lot better than to leave a woman alone in a bar.

“It’s not about your comfort.” You remind him, your voice turning brittle. “It’s about me getting what I need and what I need is to get fucked.”

He doesn’t like it, not because of the sex but rather the danger it presents. You’ll be taking home you don’t know, someone who could hurt you or worse. He also knows he can’t stop you, that you’re going to do this no matter what he says because it is a need, one that he recognises all too well.

“Will you call me or page me?” He asks you as he raises to his feet once again. “Just so I know you’re safe.”

You sigh, rapping your fingertips upon the surface on the table. He gets the feeling you aren’t used to people actually giving a shit about you. Well tough, he does and you’re just gonna have to get used to that.

“Maybe.” You concede. “If you leave within the next five minutes.”

Maybe…

That’s the best he’s gonna get for now.

It’s a couple of hours later that his pager chirps. He’s doing push ups in the dark on the bedroom floor, trying to chase away the images of another man touching you, tasting you, fucking you. He’s not a jealous man but he is protective, he would go to hell and back for the people he cares about and apparently you’re one of them. He picks up the tiny black device, his gaze fixating on the letters as they scroll across screen.

S-A-F-E.

Safe.

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Like My Work? - Why Not Buy Me A Coffee

[aestheticreservoire]

Not the person you are addressing but I feel like theres more to be said I don’t see in the replies to the post and that I think adds context to fan fiction and fandom in general especially after reading other women talk about the generalisation stuff in the OP

- a lot of women start reading fic as teenagers and a lot of current fic readers and writers are per se autistic and obsessed with whatever media they’re writing about ergo why they make stories about it obsessively. This is not a new phenomenon, women wrote Sherlock and Watson fan fiction back then with the books and the first mainstream fandom as we understand it today was Star Trek: the original series in the 70s. At that point it was in fact a sort of revolutionary separatist space as a lot of the people writing, and publishing, fanzines were female. Fanfic continues to be female skewed in fact. Males were also Star Trek fans it’s the derivative writing space that was and continues to be overwhelmingly female.

You probably dont care but if you want data points I started at age 13.

- I personally haven’t disengaged entirely but I know a lot of people do (and I took distance) because of the current heavy control exerted community wise due to the increasing politicisation of fandom after the 2000s onward. This is nothing new, again, a lot of the fujos who shipped Kirk and Spock in the 70s legit used that as leverage to support gay rights, it’s just that by virtue of members being younger and more immature and the insanity that was cultivated since livejournal, into here, and onward to twitter and TikTok fandom has become like a pug inbred version of itself.

- because the girls writing this are straight. It’s the same mindset of fujoshi writing doujinshi in Japan. Two attractive men kissing and thinking about romance without all the implications of being a woman and your lesser place in society because of it. And of course a lot of the media they obsess with glorifying and exhalting men while making mediocre or irrelevant female characters. Female essayists were actually writing about this in the Star Trek days too.

-No, not really. As I said a lot of women into this are already autistic or otherwise “weird” personality wise and that usually carries its own batch of associated mental illness, some thru nature some thru nurture (bullying, exclusion causing depression and anxiety) there’s actually an analysis of how this impacts geeks in general, socially, called the Geek Social Fallacies and you will see them repeat in ambiances like liberal feminism and activist teenagers on tiktok: https://plausiblydeniable.com/five-geek-social-fallacies/ which boils down to, I was excluded and left behind, ergo I vow when I meet other nerds I will never leave anyone behind because everyone who leaves me behind are evil bullies who hate me just because I like media.

This is also why I believe so many fandom spaces are social justice oriented. They too see minorities being excluded that they have to defend no matter the cost which is why analysis is so black and white, un-nuanced, and generally ignorant of whatever minority is being defended. Which I've personally experienced being latin american in the anglo fandom internet. In the end, I think I agree with a lot of other people that women are criticised a lot more for these fandom things than men are for things that are far more harmful, especially considering the history of these places as women-led hobbies that permitted a space separate from men. However I also agree it is a hobby and a lot of it is self-indulgent slop, and you should go in with that mindset. The cult mentality of hyper political fandom is also incredibly diseased and wreaks havoc on your already fragile mental state. Like any subculture it can be a wonderful thing for you to connect with people or controlling torture depending on how you engage with it. But as an autist I can't deny the catharsis of being able to do what is essentially glorified playing with fictional dolls without scorn, as that is something that you are judged for, very often unfairly- like most women's hobbies, to be honest.

I don't hate fan fiction because it's not original material or whatever. I hate fan fiction because it seems like everyone who is into it has serious mental health issues.

And I realize that it's a chicken/egg situation so there's no way to tell if being immersed in it tanks your wellbeing or if you get into it at your lowest point. What I do see is that it doesn't make you any better and definitely makes things way worse.

[cosmerelists]

The Favorite Food Show of Each Order of the Knights Radiant

I do love a good food-based show, like the ones on Food Network or the Bon Appetit youtube channel before it imploded. So naturally I wondered which show the various orders of the Knights Radiant would like best. The result...is this.

[Previously we've seen the Knights Radiant play boardgames, go to musicals, have sleepovers, have fandom jobs, and be birds]

1. Stonewards: Cutthroat Kitchen

Cutthroat Kitchen is a show where contestants can bid money to give each other silly disadvantages (involving a LOT of spreaders, for some reason). You get to keep the money you don't spend at the end, if you win.

Honestly, I think the Stonewards would be good at being on this show, not just watching it: they'd naturally just accept every disadvantage thrown at them without ever harming another player, prove to be really good at putting up with any and all "torture," and then win in the end.

It's the Stoneward way.

2. Edgedancers: Diners, Drive-ins and Dives

This is a show about discovering greasy spoon restaurants and giving them attention for their great food. I am not only saying this because of Lift either! I think there's a sense of bringing attention to restaurants that might, uh, otherwise be forgotten or something. Look, it makes sense in my head.

3. Truthwatchers: Reverse Engineering with Chris Morocco

This was (is?) a Youtube channel with Chris Morocco on Bon Appetit. He's blindfolded and present with a dish, which he can smell, taste, touch, but not see. He then has to try to reverse engineer the dish based on his initial investigation. I think the Truthwatchers would dig a show like that, about investigation, trying to figure out the truth...

4. Bondsmiths: Chopped

On Chopped, contestants are given a basket of four ingredients that are...unusual or hard to put together, and then they have to make a coherent meal out of it. Doesn't that sound like something a Bondmight would like? You gotta unite the four ingredients into one coherent whole.

5. Elsecallers: Good Eats

This is a show hosted by Alton Brown, and it's basically a quiet informational show about food, its history, ingredients, which kitchen gadgets you really need, etc. It tries to take a scientific angle toward everything as well. I just think it would suit the intellectual Elsecallers more so than some of the wilder Food Network shows.

6. Skybreakers: Iron Chef

I haven't watched much Iron Chef, but it is a one-on-one battle between a contestant and one of the current Iron Chefs, who are a board of, like, really good chefs. And they have a signature ingredient and each have to make a dish which then gets judged by a panel of judges. Somehow this formal cooking battle feels like something that would appeal to the Skybreakers.

7. Dustbringers: Kitchen Nightmares

Now, this one I've never watched, but I know it's a show where Gordon Ramsay goes and yells at restaurant owners who are really bad at maintaining their restaurants. I get the sense that it's the fun kind of chaotic disaster, especially if you like to see people who are bad at things get called out on it. For all of these reasons, this feels like a show a Dustbringer might enjoy.

8. Willshapers: The Great Food Truck Race

Per the webpage I found about this show, it's all about "adventure" and "new challenges." It's a show about new food truck owners who travel to new towns every week and then try to sell their food and complete various challenges. That sense of freedom and adventure seems like something the Willshapers would be really into.

9. Lightweavers: Cake Wars

I think the Lightweavers would enjoy any of the many shows about elaborate decoration and presentation, so I picked Cake Wars since I think that's what it's about. They'd probably also like those "Is It Cake?" shows as well, to be honest...

10. Windrunners: The Great British Bake-Off

I have no real justification for this. I just want to imagine Kaladin and the rest of Bridge 4 bundled up in blankets, snacking on sweet treats (for the women) or whatever they can scrounge up that is vaguely similar to a sweet treat for the men (fruit?), watching a purely wholesome show where the worst thing that ever happens is somebody messes up their bake (we don't talk about the Baked Alaska incident).

I just think it'd be good for them.

[arowyn-m]

Fandom Reception to Arcane S2

I've been seeing a lot of people worried about how the fandom will react when we finally have S2.

While I know it's likely to be an insane time, there's absolutely a good chance that, once we all get character moments we're looking forward to, it'll be much easier to settle back into the general awe and appreciation for detail we had in the years leading up to S2 promo.

Lol I don't have a big reach or anything but I do think Tumblr fandom is a good bit more curate-able than fandom on uhh Twitter for example. So while I do think there's going to be a lot of bad takes on most socials, Tumblr will likely be more populated by more long, thought-out analyses and discussions during release than Twt given the much larger character limit.

I personally can't wait to be proven right or wrong about my previous assumptions regarding all of Arcane's rich characters, and if we as a community approach S2 like a moment to LEARN more about these characters and not an opportunity for our own headcanons to become validated, the community as a whole will have more fun evaluating this upcoming season.

We're likely going to see a lot of newcomers enter the fandom in the next few months as well, which will help the general vibe (people don't typically enter fandoms with the immediate intention to start discourse, but rather to engage in discussion).

TLDR; as we approach this upcoming season, remember your roots! Arcane is INSANE artistry. Be respectful and kind especially to those who are clearly young and/or new to the community—we all love the show and we all love these characters in varying degrees :]

[gluion]

there have been many discussions surrounding the boycott of riize that i think there's no harm in sharing my two cents on this issue.

seunghan’s removal from riize speaks a lot about the state of the kpop industry, from the constant accommodation to fans' parasocialism to a lack of mental health protection for kpop idols. idols are being treated as commodities versus real people. we’ve seen it in newjeans’ situation, seungkwan’s instagram post, the starlight boys mission, and anecdotes from other idols.

what happens in the behind-the-scenes of the kpop industry is generally not common knowledge, but as more idols continue to speak up about mistreatment, it’s clear to see such a capitalistic industry does nothing but service management more than the idols themselves.

with that, i think it’s important that we don’t forget the purpose of the boycott. while it does have aims to bring seunghan back, i think it also speaks up against the lack of protection idols have.

still in doubt? well, i thought i could take some time to offer a different perspective on some common reasons people don't believe in the boycott.

"seunghan made the decision to leave the group."

it's not enough to take the statement at face value because you wouldn't be considering the context of the situation. seunghan left because of all the backlash he received. i wish more people recognized the reason why he made that decision. ultimately, the circumstances/situation cornered him to make that decision—and it shows the lack of protection that SM has over their artists. and you have to recognize that seunghan, although he's 21 years old, is a rookie artist. this is his first time as an idol, and to receive all that backlash after being relatively fresh from debut are waters he has never navigated.

"oh, the boycott won't work. SM is a big company."

everyone knows of SM’s status. the purpose of a boycott is to put pressure on them in light of seunghan’s removal. after all, the boycott is happening because people recognize a deeper issue that reflects the kpop industry: a lack of protection for their own artists. there is a long, ongoing history of boycotting and its success. boycotting is not instant. it will take time like any other boycott. this initiative aims to put pressure on SM to reevaluate their actions and current protocols in handling defamation of their own artists, especially rookie ones.

"let's just support the boys as they are now."

i understand that most people think it's better to support them as who they are now, but i would like for you guys to remember back to the reason why people are boycotting in the first place. the group fought for seunghan's comeback and it would be understandable for them to be stressed out by this whole situation. you can still support the current members while still holding SM accountable through a boycott. how? letters is always a start. weverse exists to help send your messages to artists. after all, we know how much riize would prefer to read your thoughtful and comforting words, especially now.

i would like to reiterate that boycotting doesn't translate in hate for riize but an initiative to put pressure on SM. people have reasons of why they chose to unstan riize due to how split the current fandom is between ot6s and ot7s. when a subgroup in a fandom manages to push for the removal of a member, it's hard to feel safe in such a space. however, instead of wasting your time trying to fight seunghan antis, you can find more ways to support the boycott and offer your own perspectives on why you support it.

i wish more people realized and reconsidered why multiple kpop fans from across different fandoms are united about this issue. as always, please reconsider if you aren't participating in the boycott!

resources:

boycott sm by @hanibani-world

boycott plans as international briize by @seoktized

BOYCOTT RIIZE with petition by @axibani

google drive of riize content sorry for the mention to these accounts! — thank you again for your posts <3

[sharrkbaiit]

FIRST OF ALL: the fact that this fandom actually thinks through everything in the show, regardless of its age demographic, effort put into it, or any other factor, draws me closer to spop because I LIVE for this nerdy shit, so thank you spop fandom for being fucking amazing

SECONDLY, and to expand on the fact that Horde Prime has more resemblance to the evangelical church: I grew up in a Christian household. My parents have worked in the church longer than I can remember and by default I worked there my whole teenage years so I know all the ins and outs of the modern Christian church. With that being said, I find a lot of similarities between the Christian god and Prime because his whole plot is to “take over the universe and make everyone follow him because he’s the best” which is exactly what we’re taught in Christianity. I was always taught that the Christian faith revolves around the idea of bringing other people into the faith, it’s all about numbers following the same “god” and striving to be perfect for him. Horde prime “makes them perfect” by ridding the clones of anything he doesn’t want, as well as using chips, just like how Christian’s have to “repent of their sins” to be a “better person” in gods eyes. At first I analyzed Horde Prime to be a cultist, but then I realized that I was just raised in a cult called Christianity. When you understand the author’s(?) (what do you call a tv creator?) upbringing and relate it to the show, the villains have more depth and the way their defeated has actual meaning. She-Ra isn’t about blondie and cat girl beat evil guy with the power of love, it’s about how nobody can tell you who to love regardless of if they raised you, rule over you or brainwashed you into becoming something your not, love will win, and for that i love spop.

something i wish people understood about she-ra is that it’s not about the war, it’s about catradora.

the war is just the setting for their story, not the main plot. while i’m aware that the show is just a reboot of basic cookie-cutter characters without much depth, it’s of my opinion that this is at least partially why hordak and especially prime were such weak villains. (i.e. the former bending to catra’s will the moment she removed the first ones' crystal on his armor and sat in his throne, while the latter was defeated and dispelled with just a declaration of love and single magic beam.) yes this is another one of those lighthearted “friendship saves the day!” surface-level cartoons for kids, despite the mature themes it simultaneously takes on too, but i also think it was so simple to take these overlords down in terms of planning because all the complexities went into catra and adora’s relationship to each other. the show isn’t memorable for the princess alliance & rebellion vs. the horde, but you see the writing of catradora get praise all the time.

[justenjoythegossip]

CHRIS & ABBA’S LATEST PR STUNT & THE VISIBLE ENDGAME OF THE PR STRATEGY or… “WILL YOU JUST GET OVER IT ALREADY? IT HAS BEEN TWO FREAKING YEARS”…

Recap of recent events: 

Yesterday was the premiere of Red One in Berlin. Go Germany. Chris didn’t walk the red carpet before Dwayne as he was supposed to, arrived late with his wife, walked the carpet (after almost missing it) without her, played with the precious very ostentatiously for the cameras, she and Chris shared a moment together as they hugged and she gave him a look of... disgust(?). Then they were filmed sitting together for the movie and Chris seemed angry/pissed(?) at her as he gestures, seemingly does a nervous tick by pressing on his glasses and she rolls her head… #couplegoals LOL

Side note: kudos to the PR agent sitting next to Abba for her clapping as it seemingly helped indicate to her she was supposed to applaud her loving husband and also served as miraculous blocking from this angle, to show us only what they want us to see. 

She was always going to be there…

I have been asked many times if I thought Abba would show up at the premiere. And I always answered that I was 50/50 on the matter. When we learned that it was actually Justin who arranged that podcast for her, I was leaning towards no. Because why would she feel the need to go on a podcast no one asked for, if she was going to get the exposure of a big Hollywood premiere soon, right? Then we got the Avengers’ PR stunt where they endorsed Kamala Harris and Chris was flashing his ringless hand so ostentatiously. And then I immediately thought, of course she will be there. Her saying her marriage year was terrible coupled with his non wearing his wedding ring was meant to manipulate his fans into thinking the end was near and like always to add shock value to their next PR stunt. 

And of course she was going to be there, this is actually a big part of why he did this PR stunt in the first place. He wanted the world to know he was a married man and there is no better platform than a Hollywood event to push a narrative… even when you push it as discreetly as you can so that you don’t offend your fandom and the general public any further…

Why did we get a remake of what happened at the Ghosted premiere and what does this mean?

If people remember the Ghosted Premiere, they did not walk together as they infamously made their red carpet debut for the Vanity Fair party. At the time, I theorized that the reason they didn’t was because they wanted to ease his fans in as they knew there was quite a lot of backlash from his fans but also from the general public. I still think that was the case but it’s even more obvious after today’s stunt, as this was a win-win for Chris. He gets to sell the married man brand he is craving so desperately while putting his kinda wife in a corner.  Go Berlin! She gets to come but has to make sure she is not seen too much as her presence could offend his fans and a part of the general public and more importantly have an impact on his movie’s box office and his career more generally speaking. And look how his “fans” take this as a victory… 

But it’s not, it’s just more manipulation and gaslighting on Chris and his team’s part. 

Because clearly all the content of the 2 of them was not meant for the general public but destined to his fandom. And as you can see they didn’t make it to the Just Jared article this time. But they did get to sell the “we are real and private/we are just PR” narrative. Badly like always because it’s the point. 

https://www.justjared.com/2024/11/03/dwayne-johnson-lucy-liu-chris-evans-more-premiere-new-holiday-movie-red-one-in-berlin/

But now we finally get a clearer sense of why Abba felt the need to go on a podcast no one cared about for the first edition of a small festival that got little to no media coverage! She is basically reduced to a prop that has basically no voice or agency but is taken out for minimal lowkey PR stunts when it’s absolutely necessary. But since she a Nazi sex worker, I am guessing we should all be ok with this. But more on that later. 

The latest appearance of the precious ring and its use from a PR standpoint… 

I have already discussed the ring profusely and even recently when he went to the walk of fame for Kevin Feige. Here are a couple of posts where I give my 2 cents about it.

Before I dive into the latest shenanigans with the precious, it’s important to note that playing with wedding rings is very “in” right now. And so what Chris did last night was textbook CAA. Just look at what Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck recently did with theirs or even more ridiculously how Dakota flashed her engagement ring during an arranged papwalk. 

Here you can see a video of Chris with the very purposefully loose ring:

As people have pointed out, the ring is way too big, isn’t it? And clearly that’s the whole point since it feeds the “it’s only PR” narrative, isn’t it? But that’s not even the most interesting part about this little clip. Look at where the fans are on this video, then pay closer attention to the camera placement. Can you see how much emphasis the person who is filming (not a fan) is putting on the loose ring and how CURATED this all is?

And now look at Chris playing with his ring so naturally and organically (sarcasm) as the photographers are taking his picture. 

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Chris Evans Army (@cevans_army)

They want you to see it, they are showing it to you, as ostentatiously as it gets. Even when Chris plays the game of “hide the ring”, it is to draw more attention to it while trying to gain sympathy from fans who are so desperate to see a glimmer of regret in his demeanor. 

The programmed obsolescence of Team Real/Team PR and the endgame of the PR strategy 

I have discussed months ago, how this strategy of “divide and conquer” which was symbolized by the discourse and fighting between Team Real and Team PR was just a starting point. A PR strategy can only be understood and appreciated when it can be analyzed in the long run. Those 2 trolling teams were the loud extremist voices that were obnoxious and repulsive enough (in their tone or rhetoric) to drive fans away from them and the narratives they were selling, paving the way for the more reasoned and rational Team Middle. I wrote a post about it if you want to check it out. 

As Team PR and team Real have become completely redundant, all that is left is the narrative Team Middle are pushing. Notice how they purposefully keep blurring the line to disorient (classic manipulation tactics by the way) and make people accept what they are selling. And today they might distract you with the loose ring, the presence of her relatives, the not walking the red carpet together or taking pictures together (but just you wait for the NY premiere as it is just around the corner), their bad body language around each other, the awkwardness and coolness of their exchanges, her cheap outfit while he is dressed in designer clothes by his scientologist and rapist apologist stylist, or they will point out as over the top and fake he was in his reactions at the premiere and I could go on and on… All of this is true BUT it is all a distraction and misdirection. 

As they have pointed out repeatedly, it has been two years, so you should just accept it or move on. The fandom no longer needs your services if you are not capable of enjoying the content they “so kindly” provide for you. They will feed you the crumbs showing how fake it is to appease you and to distract from Chris’ complicity and manipulation as long as you behave. 

The seemingly counterintuitive promoting of this girl by plants, their vicious trolling and what purposes it serves..

So many plants allegedly hate Abba but talk about her constantly. The amount of attention she is getting from them seems incommensurable. Like posting her numbers religiously or obsessing about what she is wearing and so forth.

If it weren’t for them we would hear very little about her. For example, we would have known she was going to do a podcast in her home country only after she posted about it and not a long time before hand. It's also important to note that most of the time she is mentioned, it is in a very negative way as they usually make fun of her and humiliate her. As you know, “there is no such thing as bad publicity”. But in this instance, it’s interesting to ask ourselves why and also what purposes it serves more specifically.

Well, I have just mentioned that bad publicity is still publicly, but another key rule is: know your audience. And obviously Chris’ fandom dislikes her so intensely that talking about her in a negative way, showing animosity towards her is the smart approach to gain the trust of his fans you want to manipulate. The goal here is to paint her as an absolute villain. I am not defending her by the way as she is an awful person but she has 0 power in this story but she makes for a hell of a scapegoat in this shitshow. And indeed, people can easily project all of their disappointment, anger and negative emotions onto her in order to soothe their frustration. 

You see the industry makes you do things you don’t want to do if you let it, talent agencies are as unethical as it gets and will play an awful game if you let them, the PR wife that you selected (or agreed on) might be a POS… but at the end of the day, it’s all a reflection of your own choices and of who you are… 

NB: special thanks to friends and mods who provided me with content and shared with me their smart observations. If I don’t thank you by name it’s to protect you from being blocked LOL

[stunticonbreakdown]

I feel like a lot of people seem to forget (or are unaware) that Breakdown's paranoia manifests itself into violence rather than the need to be taken care of by other people. (I do not mean for this to come off as rude at all, even if you have found you write or think of Breakdown this way. This is just a subject I find annoying, and wished to speak about it 😊.)

I see him depicted as a "cinnamon roll" kind of character a lot, as if his paranoid delusions and hallucinations and whatnot leave him a crying, shaking mess on the floor simply in need of care and affection (which, to be honest, he definitely does need, but the point here is that it's not a super accurate representation of his character).

Canonically, as shown in the cartoon as well as his many many bios, he gets violent. His gun does not leave his hands. He would not hesitate to physically harm someone else while he has the belief they are wronging him. He was born with his gun in his hands, so why would he be afraid to use it if he believed he was in danger?

I feel his mischaracterization comes from a lack of education on like... How paranoia works and affects the mind. Even seeing how courageous and strong Breakdown is in the cartoon, people focus in on his stammering and fears mentioned in his bios more, and then writing it in a way that ignores the forementioned traits because some people just do not understand that those traits can coexist, or how they can.

I will be honest, I do love a good comfort fic, and I can't see him shooting at someone who's only trying to help him, but let him have his more 'violent' traits! I do believe some people may also fear that they're coming off as writing Breakdown into the "violent and evil paranoiac" archetype, but as long as it's done right, it's not going to feel that way.

Let him shoot down a security camera! Let him ready his gun after hearing a knock at his door! Let him break something he was holding because he got too distracted by his thoughts! Because he would!Him being continuously written as an "innocent lil anxious boy" feels incredibly disregarding (if that's the word?) to his (and real people's) issues. I find his more violent traits relatable. I don't have a gun, but I break/damage so many things when in a distressed state of mind, and I know for a fact many other people do.

To conclude this, I will mention this is not a direct criticism of anyone or thing. This is about a jumble posts I've seen, conversations I've had, and some fics I've seen. Even the fanfiction I'm barely referring to, as I understand many authors, including myself, enjoy projecting onto characters they like. I do not mind reading fics or seeing fanart where he's curled up onto a ball in panic, but I just wish more people saw Breakdown less as "innocent with anxiety" and more as how he actually is in the cartoon/comics/bios. There is a difference between seeing Breakdown as the aforementioned archetype of anxious + innocent and seeing him as his appearances show and describe.

Thank you for reading all the way through, if you did! Once again- this was not meant to come across as rude at all, nor was this a direct criticism of anyone or thing. This is me getting my thoughts out as someone who heavily relates to Breakdown on how the fandom tends to view him.

[crusherthedoctor]

Boo. Still alive. Sorry for the jump scare.

Do not adjust your set, it is indeed me. Like a true arch-enemy, I keep coming back. Since it's my birthday today, I feel ready to give an update on how I've been since my Johnny from The Room moment from last time. This won't be as dramatic as that one... I think.

My extended hiatus has thankfully been giving me the solitude that I was hoping for. Despite things continuing to be thrown my way (including today... long story), I've been better mentally than how I was by the time I checked out from the fandom. And for once, I'm not saying that because it's what people want to hear and I'm nervous of being a burden by continuing to be upset and frustrated. For once, I actually mean it.

Does this mean I'm returning full-time? No. Not anytime soon. I'm enjoying my self-imposed exile too much for that. I said I would tap out for the rest of the Year of Shadow's duration, and I intend to stand by that. Do you think I want to go into intense detail about my SXS Gens opinions during the peak of its hype? Do you think I'm in any rush to participate in IDW Debate #362: The 361st Debate Strikes Back? Nuh-uh, no thank you, go to jail, do not pass go. Why would I want to do that when I can be scandalous with my mutuals instead, like a real philosopher.

However, I also said last time that depending on how 2025 goes, I might return for real by then. As in, depending on whether or not there's anything scheduled for the franchise that I'm fully invested towards, and for the ideal reasons. Regardless of whether that happens though, with the clarity of mind that I have currently compared to how G.U.N. Fortress Dark Route-pilled I was before, I'm thinking I likely will be back at some point next year, even if not immediately into the year. I'll be drawing a lot more lines in the sand in order to prevent the level of overwhelming disillusionment and depression that caused me to go on fandom vacation in the first place, but I'll go into detail about those when the time comes.

Despite the fandom's best efforts, and the current direction's best efforts, I still love the Sonic franchise. I don't know if my last post gave the impression that I was abandoning Sonic completely, but that was never the intention, not even when I made said post. I've still been playing the games I enjoy. I've still been spreading prop-egg-anda. And yes, I've still been toiling away on the green horsie fic. You're welcome and/or my apologies.

So yeah, that about covers it. Now back to not fandom discussing for me lmao.

[shebeafancyflapjack]

hello hi and omg the Stockholm syndrome with calypso thing. I've never thought of it that way for some reason. woah do you have any other thoughts on that I'd love to hear!!

Hi!

Couple things; so this has been one of my favorite songs long before the saga came out as the demo out on YouTube was pretty much the full version. It's so beautiful and tragic, but I kept assuming that - given the sympathetic vibe of the song - Jorge was going to change this part of the story to make Calypso less of a villain.

Like my assumption was she wouldn't be the one keeping him trapped, it's just the curse of her island and even if she let him go he'd just come back or get hurt. So she's as much of a prisoner as him, basically. But also that it would be clear she didn't SA him as in the Odyssey. It would just be an innocent one sided infatuation that she would keep hoping he'd fall for her over time but wouldn't. So at first I assumed the "I love you" line would be like "I love you as a friend, I would have been alone and gone mad here for years without you, you gave me a bit of peace after all the trauma." Etc.

But then the Wisdom Saga came out...

And Love In Paradise definitely has SA and manipulation vibes. Rather than helping Ody heal in any way, he becomes even worse. Athena says outright "she's kept you trapped out of your control". There's no wriggle room for that. It's not just an innocent love. I would love to have confirmation from Jorge if this Calypso did force herself on him in any way as I think it would clear up things in the fandom.

So with that all in context, I can't hear the line as "I love you as a friend". It doesn't feel earned, we've not glimpsed anything from Calypso that would have Ody respect her that way. So for me it would be more affection born out of captivity and isolation and feeling sorry for your captor, but still wanting to get as far as fuck away from them.

It reminds me a lot of the real life kidnapping of Natasha Kampush whose book describing her ordeal where she was kept trapped underground for eight years is a chilling read. But it is a fascinating insight into what we think of as "Stockholm Syndrome" and how it's not like people imagine where they're brainwashed to be hopelessly devoted to them (and before anyone jumps down my throat, yes I know there's some debate over the name and having it be seen as a mental health condition when it's mostly just human empathy and survival tactic). Natasha's complex feelings towards her abuser and how media tried to romanticise it after her escape reminds me a lot of Odysseus and Calypso. She feared this man, he made her life a misery and treated her worse than a dog - but he was still the only company she had for eight years. There would be times when she felt fleeting moments of normalcy and affection, it's just human nature for that to create a bond. And she would grow sympathy for how messed up he clearly was, probably in much the same way Ody felt sympathy for Calypso being trapped alone.

Yes Calypso is a goddess but she feels the most human out of all the ones who appear in Epic, in the most messy way humans can be.

Hope I've explained that well. 😅

[mochinomnoms]

i’m curious, how would PTM be if you had chosen to write it as Floyd/Reader instead of Jade/Reader?

i know the basic premise would have stayed the same. the backbone of telepathy drives the plot. however, the allure of the early chapters is that jade acts so differently from how he thinks (and that’s very endearing and humorous).

if you had chosen floyd, would you have done his thoughts much more sweeter than raunchy? or would it had been kept the same formula of lovey-dovey thoughts versus friendly actions?

xoxo mochi

xoxo re-l! it's nice to see you in my inbox! ^^ I like getting questions like these on my fics too I'm such a yapper when I have the time tehehe

So when choosing who to make the love interest for PTM, I was basing it a bit off of the characters from Mousou Telepathy since that was the inspiration. I didn't want it to be an exact retelling with new characters, which is why you can see the beginning is borrowing a lot from the manga while the rest starts taking it's own form. But to make it easier on myself in the beginning, I wanted to pick a character that would be shocking to hear raunchy thoughts from or at the very least funny.

My original list for the "shocking" characters were: Silver, Trey, Azul, Jamil, Vil and Sebek; this was narrowed down to Silver and Azul eventually. The original list for "funny" characters for PTM were: Jade, Floyd, Ace, Rook, and Leona. That got narrowed down to Jade and Leona, actually. Eventually I was stuck between Jade and Silver and I decided to go with Jade because I like my silly eel boy~

I think this worked out for the best, Jade I find is easy to write most of the time and he's a very fun character overall! He's not necessarily super cool or nonchalant like the love interest from the original manga, but he fits the premise beautifully in his own Jade way!

One of the reasons I didn't go with Floyd for PTM was because of the raunchy thoughts. I wanted whoever I set as love interest to be a bit shocking when it came to the dirty thoughts, and I feel that the fandom expects Floyd to be a bit raunchy and blunt. Pair that with the fact that Floyd doesn't really hide his thoughts from others (more so that I think they get misinterpreted at times), I didn't think the story would be as enjoyable with the same premise, and the shockingly erotic thoughts are part of what makes the story so funny!

If I had decided to do Floyd, I would have definitely made his thoughts much softer, more domestic. But from my understanding of Floyd as a character, I think he probably either would've confessed right away (so it would've been more of a oneshot) or the entire story would've been in Floyd's POV wondering why his mate that he totally made obvious that he's in love with and courting (which he hasn't) is being so weird around him and blushing all the time.

I'm quite happy with Jade being the love interest for PTM, it's turned out pretty good and a lot of people really seem to like it! The next chapter probably won't come out for a while since I'm busy with school and smaller stories are a lot easier to finish quick, but I'll try my best!

[prince-liest]

It's kind of a weird (not sure if good or bad or just neutral!) experience to realize that a lot of the personal headcanons I've written into my own writing have become well-known enough that they're treated as general fanon with a lot of people using them and not realizing that they, like, originated from a specific place rather than just being ambiently popular. Every once in a while I come across a fic where there's an AN that says something to the tune of, "Oh, I saw this popular headcanon that [insert something really specific from 666: Live On Air!] and wanted to[...]" without attributing it to me - or, most likely, even realizing that it came from me!

It's an interesting feeling! I think the times that actually bother me are when it's people that know they got the headcanon directly from me and choose not to credit me (or in one weird instance, credit me, then edit their stuff to bury the credit to be really hard to find for some reason - y'all, I do notice these things even when I don't comment on them).

I've been straight up plagiarized many times before. It's ranged from friends in RP groups stealing my characters because I wasn't using them often anymore, to more recently someone ripping out chunks of one of my Hazbin Hotel fics and rewriting it as their own. It's a uniquely horrible feeling, and I think it makes me sensitive to feeling uncredited as a result even when plagiarism isn't occuring. On the other hand, this is literally how headcanons evolve and I'm actually so fucking happy that specific things that I was outright nervous to post because I thought people would (and in a few cases, people did) react very poorly to them are now, like...fairly common fanon.

Anyway, I don't think it's wrong for people to carry forward headcanons to the point where they don't even know where they came from. I also think most likely some concepts became convergently popular when more than one person had the same thought! It's how fandoms work and I know for a fact I've done the same... but it does very much give me the warm and fuzzies when people that use my ideas do give a nod in my direction for where they got the inspiration! In return, I try to make a point to do the same.

[deadboydetectives-confessions]

I sometimes also feel old in the fandom but I somehow have the energy to do a bunch of stuff (not all of course but more than I have in yeeeeears)

I also know older fans, like in their forties, who have been writing a lot or are pretty active in some way

Most people are definitely younger but there's something about this fandom, I don't know. And it's positive! The discourse and stuff are kinda inevitable in this day and age I think. But the way people are so enthusiastic is really nice to see and that takes away the feeling of being 30+ a little

.

[incomingalbatross]

Sooo... I just watched Labyrinth, and I remember seeing some posts of yours talking about how it's good and similar to other stories (like OTGW). And in some ways, I see that? But also like.... I need a little help making any sense of it, lol

Sorry, I know this is super random, but I was just curious to find out why you like it and what you see in it, so I thought I'd ask!

Of course, I'm happy to talk about Labyrinth! :) Thank you for the ask!

(Disclaimer that I haven't watched it in a year or two, but I still remember it fairly well.)

In terms of similarity to OTGW: both stories center on a teenage protagonist who is a dreamer, but too caught up in themselves, and to some extent running away from their life. This manifests PARTICULARLY in their neglected and/or rejected responsibility to their younger half-brother. They end up in a liminal, otherworldly space that operates on much more narrative logic than they're used to, and can only save their lives/souls and make it home again by saving said younger brothers first.

Sarah rejects her brother at the beginning of her story, while Wirt abandons his care for Greg near the end, but you can see the similar beats there, right? They're both dealing with normal teenage stress + the stress of parental divorce (probably) and remarriage, and seeing their younger brothers as an emblem of Everything Wrong In Their Lives. In reality, their younger brothers are forcing them to live in reality, where they have duties and connections to other people, and can only find maturity/fulfillment through embracing that.

Jareth and the Beast are also very similar figures, I think; Jareth is a more seductive tempter figure, playing to Sarah's ego and to romance tropes, while the Beast plays with hope and despair. But they are both trickster figures who use bargains -- seeming windows of hope -- to entrap vulnerable mortals (Wirt and Greg, in the Beast's case).

AND. Both Jareth and the Beast are defeated by someone calling them out as empty and powerless! Wirt says, "this is dumb," and demolishes the Beast's entire facade -- he's not keeping souls in the lantern, he's the one dependent on the lantern, and he can't keep Wirt or Greg if they're ready to go home. Sarah's "You have no power over me" has the exact same weight -- it's wrapped up in theatrics of these being Specific Magic Words, but it's the meaning of them that shatters Jareth's power and sends her and Toby home.

In both stories, evil tries very, very hard to convince these kids that they need it. Jareth wraps it up in a lot more complicated temptations -- I'll make you happy, I'll make you powerful, I'll give you glamorous parties and material comfort and everything you ever wanted if you fall down and worship me -- while the Beast sticks to a brute-force message of despair, with the crumbs he offers as all that there is -- "There is only my way." But in both cases, the message is: you need me.

And in both stories the protagonists go: No. I don't need you. I don't need anything from you. In fact, you have nothing to give.

At which point it's revealed that evil needed them. Needed them to buy into its strength, its ability, its substance -- or it doesn't have any. It crumbles away, and they go home.

...So! Those are the big similarities between them, I think, for me? I like Labyrinth, as its own movie, because I like the classic fairy-tale structure of "the fairies/goblins/elves took my loved one because I messed up, and now I gotta get them back the hard way." I love the atmosphere of the Labyrinth and Sarah's friends (though your mileage may definitely vary on this movie, depending on your tolerance for Henson Creations ;P). I love Sarah, who messes up, but who is still plucky and brave and kind through most of her trials! The friendship between her and Hoggle (...a Woodsman parallel?) is my favorite. And while I'm very much in the minority of this fandom in not really feeling Jareth's appeal, as a villain I think David Bowie does an excellent, glittery job. And we get music.