#WOMEN IN FICTION

[hacked-wtsdz]

You can’t win as a woman in fiction. Be too positive, you become a Mary Sue, have flaws and those flaws are why almost nobody likes you. Be moderate, you have wet-cabbage personality, be exuberant, you are an unrealistic example. Have strong morals, and you’re badly developed, be morally corrupt and you’re hated with such vigour fans will send hate mail to the actress who plays the character. Be kind and soft and in love, you’re a representation of sexism, be cruel, harsh and cold and you’re just a bitch. Be a complex, realistic, ambiguous character, and either your flaws or your positive traits will be ignored or blown out of proportion and into oblivion. There is no winning for female characters.

[now-you-sound-like-a-jedi]

My favourite game to play in fandom spaces is the age old "is this female character actually awful or is she just a) outspoken, b) not designed to be palatable to a male audience, or c) the canon female love interest of a male character more popularly shipped with another man?"

[sad-endings-suck]

Traditionally “Feminine” Female Characters

THAT person: We need more traditionally feminine female characters again!

Me: Oh… okay. What exactly makes a female character “traditionally feminine” in your opinion?

THAT person: Traditionally feminine female characters are kind! They are soft, peaceful, express their emotions all the time no matter what, and maybe they are also smart idk, but they are NOT warriors that are tough and “badass” just for the sake of it.

Me: Well, it sounds like you are voicing frustration about two dimensional female characters that so happen to be tough and “badass”. What I DON’T understand, is why that’s a problem when the character is a woman/femme, but not when said character is a man. Especially when, historically speaking, one dimensional male characters tend to be reduced to “just badass and strong and unemotional” and nothing else way more often than AFAB characters ever have. Whereas women have largely been reduced to “soft and emotional and weak” for the better part of western written history.

That person: Because men are supposed to be strong and tough and women are supposed to be soft and kind and weak—

Me: Oops! There it is.

[lgbtlunaverse]

"Female characters aren't allowed to be feminine anymore! Why aren't girly girls allowed to kick ass while wearing makeup– oh the actresss are all wearing makeup? Well not enough of it! It's so subtle I barely noticed. And they are never allowed to wear skirts or dresses– ok well those scenes don't count there are some scenes where they DON'T wear dresses. Real girly girls never wear pants. And in fact now that I think about it it's sooo misogynistic that so many of these women in fantasy and action franchises fight. Women are worthy even if they don't display masculine traits like combat! Why- oh, I said I wanted girly girls to kick ass earlier? Well obviously I meant that METAPHORICALLY. Why can't they command armies instead and leave the fighting to the men? Actually now that I think about it that would mean they are the ones making the decisions while the men follow them... that's bad! Why do we only value women if they display talent in a masculine field like politics? And they always have to fix everything while the male love interests are useless. Women deserve to be taken care of! A GOOD female character would have a boyfriend or husband who solves all the major plot points for her! That gives her more time to do feminine things like dressing up prettily and doing her makeup and dancing 🥰"

[ink-5oul]

You can only answer with a fictional woman, if you're not sure if they count maybe pick a different character. You may choose an oc but of so please specify why you have classified them as such, thanks!

It would be nice if you could reblog for reach and put the character and status in the tags but don't feel pressured

[crownspeaksblog]

Currently absolutely losing my GODDAMN MIND over this edit!! Like I'm genuinely so fucking giddy watching this! They did NOT have all of this!

[hadesoftheladies]

female protagonists aren't enough! i want more female-centric stories! i want to explore the existential dread a woman feels when she tests positive. i want to explore what it means to a first born daughter to be her father's hero, why she so desperately tries to save everyone in her family. i want to explore the thought-process of what it means to hate the being you bore of yourself. how something of your own flesh can feel so alien and how you can be scared of something you made, something so fragile. i want to explore what it means to pour your love out into someone you thought would eventually love you back and to keep pouring and die pouring into the void that is your husband, your boyfriend, your son. i want to explore life and death from a woman's eyes. i want to explore what it means to fight in a war for a country that treats you as a resource. to be willing to die for it and realize it is only too happy to sacrifice you. what kind of fear overcomes you when the war begins and it means the entire world is now as violent as your house. what it means when the war is over and now your countrymen expect you to recover the population. "as a woman, i have no country." constantly betrayed by your own home, the motherland that hates it's mothers. what fear must overcome you knowing what they expect of all your women now that they killed the previous generation. i want to explore what it means to be a girl parent, having to manage your father, mother and sibling's emotions. the mediator that everyone is grateful for secretly, but no one acknowledges. in family comedies and dramas, the reunions are framed as inventions of the grandfathers and grandmothers or uncles, but it's always the daughters trying to patch up shit. organizing christmas and managing fights. what it's like to be the second-sister and idolize your older sister, not realizing how eager she is to impress you, not realizing how you've both set her up to inevitably fail. how women try to be beautiful even when they're dying. how people congratulate girls for being sick, getting thin, applauding them as they kill themselves. what it means to be devoted heart and soul to a god who's intermediary is a man that detests you. what it's like to be a young girl and the only one enraged at the injustice going around, so you decide to spy, to become an enemy of the state, a smuggler, a rescuer and then you get caught. what it's like to be a child that tries so hard to be good at everything and gets nothing but derision, but instead of "going joker" just keeps people pleasing until she dies a shell of herself. how unrewarding is sacrifice for women. thinking "this time they'll like me. this time they'll appreciate me. this time they'll be glad they had me. this time they'll want me." how futile it is to perform. what it means to survive the worst and be treated like a villain instead of a hero. how winning makes you even more hated than losing. to be loyal and only betrayed in turn. the joy of wearing your first dress sweats, and realizing you didn't have to perform all the time. the joy of buying boy's clothes and finding pockets in pants, hoodies, etc. the relief of taking your heels and bra off. the maddening exhilaration of gaining muscle. kicking the ball into the net!

no one can understand any of it. no one knows the horrors of any of it like women and girls. there's a whole universe of human experience that no one ever sees. that few ever explore. you don't know, you don't understand, like can you even? everything changes when it's a woman. quests for power in male centric stories are about greed and selfishness. but a woman going on a quest for power would be virtuous, justice. sacrifice for a man is glory. sacrifice for a woman is mundane. to a man, beauty is a gift. to a woman, beauty is a curse that damns you to the sharks. every story, every theme changes when it's a woman. because women and girls live in a society with very different rules for them. every philosophical question transforms when it's a woman it's being asked to. that's asking. even the morals change. "forgiveness and mercy heal society" NO! the moral for little girls should be "don't ever fucking forgive or forget. justice at any cost!" "power corrupts" NO! YOU AS A GIRL MUST CHASE POWER FOR FREEDOM IS INFINTELY MORE VALUABLE THAN BEING LIKED. "love conquers all" NO! love should only be trusted to the worthy! NEVER give your love to someone irresponsible with it! "selfishness is bad" BE MORE SELFISH GIRLS! BE SELFISH WITH YOUR TIME AND ENERGY ESPECIALLY! "violence is never the answer" VIOLENCE IS OCCASIONALLY THE ANSWER. GET A FUCKING GUN! "blessed are the meek" FORTUNE FAVORS THE BOLD! "family is everything" FREEDOM IS EVERYTHING! You are not bound to any blood, build or find the community you deserve! That actually helps you prosper!

we live in different worlds! what men tell the boys does not apply to you! THEY AIN'T US AND THEY AIN'T BEEN US AND THEY CAN'T FATHOM THE STRUGGLE.

you wouldn't get it.

[so-many-ocs]

i don’t think people get that when i say i love fictional characters that are evil women i mean it. “she’s completely irredeemable” that’s the POINT, babes!!! it adds FLAVOR!!! PIZZAZZ!!! INTRIGUE!!!!

[thinkingofausername]

always sad about women saying "it's against feminism to make a female character soft, motherly, loyal to a man or defended by one" like yall. please. a woman in fiction doesn't have to hate men and wield a sword to help feminism. soft and kind female characters are so precious. "they have no personality" THAT IS THEIR PERSONALITY

[milaisreading]

If I had to read it, u do too

[fierce-little-miana]

If you plan to criticize the way a woman (cis, trans, straight, lesbian, bisexual, gender conforming, gender non-conforming, etc. Any woman!) is written in a piece of fiction and it boils down to “she is not feminine” or “she is just like a man”, I want you to explicitly state your definition of “feminine”.

See if you don't sound like a raging misogynist.

[anxiousgayseeksvalidation]

Anyway, I will never forgive SVU for what they did to Dana Lewis. A strong, driven, smart, capable, likable woman, who is successful and respected in her career--let's disrespect everything about her character by having her downfall be tied to some guy! Because as we all know, women can't just have their own motivations and personality, it all has to be because of jealous, man-driven woman brain. They also screwed Olivia out of what was and could have been a really positive friendship with another woman, which is also annoying and disappointing. "Developing her character or at least sticking to what made her likable is cool, but how about we trash all of that and turn her into a sniveling, cowardly murderer who risked her career over angst caused by a romantic relationship instead??"

SO IRRITATING.

[sakuraharuno156]

"I'm a feminist, I believe that women are capable, smart, strong, interesting, independent, carring, hardworking, ambitious, ready to stand for what they believe, ready to make a change, ready to take the world by storm." that is not feminism. Real feminism acknowledges that women can be anything, including people who suck or aren't independent or hardworking or ambitious, and that they still deserve the same rights as everyone else.

"I'm a feminist, which means i hate women who don't fall into my view of what a woman should be" that's misogyny, actually. I fell into that mindset when I was a kid too, hopefully you'll grow out of it.

Hello, it's gonna be long. ❤️

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Before I unpack all of that, please let me introduce you to a concept of FICTION.

Hinata Hyuga is not a real woman. She is a piece of fiction, that tries to (badly) imitate a real woman. So, me hating a fictional character, as a shitty portrait of a "woman" is not a commentary on real women.

I don't know if you noticed, but when we talk about real-life potential, we talk about REAL LIFE, not about being born with magical eyes lol.

So Hinata is a sad excuse of a woman IN her specific universe. In comparison with other characters FROM her specific universe. What is pathetic for a magical manga character in magical ninja world IS NOT A 1 TO 1 to real world.

The issue at hand is:

Media portraying women as pathetic in their specific universe, and showing female characters who are lacking in every aspect of their FICTIONAL life as a "way to go" to young, impressionable people, like I assume, you are.

So without farther ado, let's unpack.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DISCLAIMER:

Short lesson on history and media literacy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Wording and punctuation are important in decoding a message.

If you would actually read my post, you would know that i didn't say "I'm a feminist so I believe" or "I'm a feminist and that's why I believe".

I specifically worded it as "I'm a feminist, I believe (...)".

I'll break this down for you:

I'm a feminist (I.e. I'm a part of a movement that fights for equally for women)

I believe in women (i.e. I love women and i believe they are incredible)

I believe they CAN be all of those things or some of them. I do believe that each and every one of them ARE most of those things, but i have never stated that "anyone has to earn a right to be a woman, by being those things". I even specifically stated IN THAT POST:

"And it's OK to not be all of those things, but nothing? Seriously?"

I said that women are great and that we need that represented in media as an example for young women.

I didn't say that women are worthy ONLY WHEN THEY ARE AS I WANT THEM TO BE, they just are worthy. Women in REAL life are amazing.

Female characters on the other hand are not all amazing. I would even hazard an educated guess, that most fictional female characters are not amazing, which is AWFUL and if you would actually read my post - you would know that. 🤷‍♀️

2. Feminism is not about being able to "suck".

It's not about being anything you want to be "including people who suck", it's about equality between sexes. Feminism is about fighting for more possibilities for women, not for settling for less.

If you Google the history of feminism, you would know that it's a movement that has its beginning in Women’s Suffrage and it was a fight.

It may surprise you, but the movement wasn't about "being able to suck". It was about being able to do more. To fight for your rights, to vote for your future. Suffragists fought and they fought HARD. Because they were STRONG.

Because they were women who needed more.

All those women fought to give us a chance to:

be able to vote,

be able to learn,

be able to fight,

be able to enjoy HUMAN rights equally to men.

So women can be anything they want, but it doesn't take away from ANY of my adjectives.

You don't have to be in the army to be strong,

You don't have to be a doctor to be smart,

You don't have to be alone to be independent.

You can be a stay at home mom AND STILL BE EVERYTHING I LISTED. You can work on a farm and BE EVERYTHING I LISTED. You can be anyone, in any situation and still be strong, brave, intelligent etc. Because women just are.

No matter of their problems, they just are.

You have to be brave to speak up. You have to be brave to work in male dominated fields. You have to be brave to give birth and take a responsibility for a child. You have to be brave to fight for your marriage and you have to be brave to walk away from it.

Women just ARE.

You don't have to be all of those things at once, but if you are non of them - it IS a problem.

If you are in a happy marriage, that's great, but if you are 100% dependent on your husband - it IS a problem. You have to be your own person. If you eat, sleep, breathe a man - it IS a problem.

If you don't want to be a doctor and put yourself through years of school, that's great, but if you aren't at least trying to better yourself in any way - it IS a problem. You have to be bettering yourself, because the world is spinning and If you are just "standing there", you're moving backwards. If you do NOTHING - it IS a problem.

If you don't want to be a president - that's great, but if your ambition is nothing and you want to amount to nothing - it IS a problem. You can be happy where you are, but if you are nowhere - it IS a problem.

Does that make you any less of a "woman"? No. But it is INDEED a real problem.

But women are not like that. We constantly evolve. We constantly fight. We are strong. In real life - we all are, but that exact fictional character - isn't.

Hinata Hyuga is noone. She did nothing. For a fictional character with magical powers she is nothing.

So no, you can't just "suck". Because women don't suck. Real women are fucking great. All of them.

Women in real world are everything i listed, and your immediate jump from "not being everything" to "sucking" shows me that you, in fact, didn't grow up into a real feminist.

3. Hating a fictional character for being a s*itty example for young people is not "misogyny".

I'm a feminist so (see how I used "so" instead of a comma? That means there is causation) I DO pay more attention in medias portrayal of women. I grow up on little mermaid, who gave up her OWN GOD DAMN VOICE for a guy. We don't need this. We need strong female cast to show to young girls that they don't have to be quiet.

But

I would have THE SAME exact criticism towards a male character, its just not as important because knights save princesses all the time.

So no, my criticism of FICTIONAL female character is not misogyny. It's the exact opposite.

If I hated Tsunade for being "too strong for a woman" - that's misogyny.

If I hated Sakura for not reciprocating Narutos feelings - that's misogyny.

But hating a female character for being a forever pick me girl, a forever damsel in distress who doesn't give a f*ck about anything that is not a guy? That's not misogyny, that's a common sense.

4. Well written FICTIONAL characters are important for REAL women.

I'm a feminist, I love all REAL women and I want FICTIONAL female characters to portrait real women, not that lukewarm goo, that is Hinata.

We need more than boring and "obsessed over a guy". We need a good representation for strong women.

That's why Hinata is so infuriating.

We can't take stupidity and frame it as "bravery". We can't take submissions and frame it is as "love". We can't take obsession and frame it as "inspiration".

We can't, because in real life women can't afford to do that. If you lose your voice, your personality, your presence - you dissappear. You're becoming a background character in your own life.

Hinata Hyuga is nothing. When you take Naruto away she doesn't exist. When she can't say his name, she doesn't speak. When she can't watch him, she is not there. When she can't imitate him, she doesn't exist.

And it's sad.

No real woman does that and it shouldn't be portrayed as "feminine", because stupidity and weakness are not feminine.

5. If you need more explanation on feminism and what part does media play in its growth - I'm happy to help ❤️

And lastly, because I have to use simplified statements (I don't know you, you asked anonymously, so you can be a 12 yo who knows English as your second language etc.), BUT if you want to learn more about feminism (and I highly recommend, because you seem to be confused) you can see more here:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/feminism

https://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/woman-suffrage

OR

You can always ask me directly, because funnily enough this IS my area of expertise lol.

I even did a few presentations on feminism and women's rights for various age ranges, so no matter how your "growing up" went, I'm sure I'll find something you'd understand ❤️

[now-you-sound-like-a-jedi]

people... people know that you don't have to vilify the canon female love interest to write an m/m fic right?? like, she can just not be in it, that's okay, we don't have to bring misogyny and character-bashing into this

[aurorecinema]

Birds of Prey (2020, Cathy Yan)