#UGH NARRATIVE FOILS

[fire-atwill]

So I finished Moving and it was so good wtf but my favourite character died

[menelaus-blue]

thinking a lot right now how kabru’s fascination/obsession with humans makes him such a ruthless fighter against them in the same way that laios is so effective against monsters because he studies up on them endlessly

[cringefailnatsuo]

Nah man because what the hell was this?

First of all, I love how these panels establish a clear difference between Hawks looking at Dabi and Hawks looking at Dabi. In the scene from 240, Hawks is looking at Dabi as he's thinking about completing his mission and contacting Endeavor for backup. Like dude? You're literally staring into Dabi's eyes and thinking about Endeavor and it never crossed your mind that they have the same eyes? Chapter 267 drives this point even further by putting a close-up of Dabi's eye after he reveals his identity to Hawks. You can clearly see Hawks having an "oh shit" moment after the reveal as he truly looks at Dabi and realizes that this one piece of crucial information has been right in his face the whole time.

And second of all, this just highlights how Dabi truly is Hawks' downfall during the raid.

The whole point of Hawks' mission was to gain intel on the League so that the heroes don't make any hasty decisions and have the upper hand in apprehending the villains for good. The fact that the HPSC president specifically told Hawks "we severely underestimated the enemy" and yet he did the same exact thing is, quite frankly, hilarious.

And in retrospect, given the knowledge that we have on Dabi's past from chapter 350, Hawks could have figured out who was behind the nomu, where they were kept, and so many other things about AFO's plan for a successor if he had paid more attention to Dabi.

[orcelito]

Ok genuinely what the fuck is up with Legato. I've been thinking about him for weeks. I have successfully(.??) Written him. I don't know what his fucking deal is. He compels me

[themyscirah]

Just saw a bunch of atrocious wonder woman takes and I hate everything

Someone google nearest bridge to jump off of im so done w this

[inquisitor-apologist]

If I rewrote the Sequel Trilogy (which I will NOT, I already have so much to write for my OC stuff, please brain) I think I’d get rid of Kyle Ron entirely. Just throw out the whole man. Imperial heir Rey Palpatine would’ve made a much better force-sensitive antagonist

[stealingdeansgender]

bela talbot was WRONGED and ROBBED (because gOD FORBID WOMEN DO ANYTHING) and i'm gonna write about it

[hssideblog]

I am not even a little bit normal about Gamzee Makara and the potential he had as a character which was not followed through with but Whatever

Anyway I will be thinking about pale gamkar for the rest of my life probably

[depresseddepot]

the way do jun yeong IMMEDIATELY becomes a scared little boy when park dong hoon confronts him about sleeping w his wife

[clearancecreedwatersurvival]

Ugh I can’t find that Gordan Ramsay meme edit that’s like ‘I’ve created a narrative foil’ ‘you’ve made a love interest that’s what you’ve done’

Anyway that’s my main take on labru.

[comradekatara]

hey, so. people on twt (ugh, I need to delete that account) started to compare Zuko and Azula’s relationship to Sokka and Katara. So, I jump in like “they are not comparable in any way” then people are like “Sokka and Katara do have issues even though it’s not the same as Zuko and Azula” (even though the original tweet did imply that but, whatever). and I’m all like “sure, they both have trauma from their upbringing and they fight like siblings and that trauma probably has effected their relationship but it’s still no way like it’s being compared… they love and care for one another” and then they’re coming back like “it’s not the same but they still have issues” and citing the southern raiders (which I have my own opinions about and I feel like people totally miss read that scene) but all in all to say; I’m annoyed because I feel like people are being disingenuous and I feel like your thoughts would be interesting

okay yeah obviously I don’t know what the full arguments were (and I never will because I loathe twitter. I mean X sorry) but i can definitely talk about this more generally. I mean they are the central sibling pairs configured in a similar way for obvious reasons. they are definitely comparable.

sokka and zuko have superficial similarities as older brothers who feel undervalued, struggle to live up to a harmful patriarchal standard of gender (specifically masculinity/manhood) as shaped by imperialism/colonialism/war and the expectations their fathers placed on them to “be a real man” within a very limited framework, and ultimately find their worth via other avenues beyond the limited scope of patriarchal imperialist logic. azula and katara have superficial similarities as younger sisters who are placed on a pedestal by their culture community, are the best benders of their respective elements and outclass all the older more established (male) masters who dismiss and look down on them for being teenage girls, and who feel a deep sense of grief due to the loss of their mothers that informs everything they do and fundamentally who they are as people. and then obviously the REAL foils who are foiling are katara and zuko, and sokka and azula. these pairs are each very obvious mirrors, both in terms of their personalities (as developed differently by their respective environments) and their arcs. zuko is fire nation katara. azula is fire nation sokka. so obviously their relationships are similar in this way. they are narratively constructed as parallels.

that said, I think the key primary difference between these sets of siblings is that zuko and azula are directly opposed due to being pitted against each other by ozai’s abuse, whereas sokka and katara are extremely codependent, to the point that sokka’s entire identity is shaped by his role as katara’s brother and protector. so if you read zuko as a foil to sokka (which he certainly somewhat is, but is not the primary foil to sokka) you’ll get confused because he doesn’t live for others and he doesn’t look out for azula at all. but azula, like sokka, does define her identity through her loyalty and her ability to best serve others, so she does try to help zuko as best she can, which is obviously hindered by the incredibly limited of scope of what she considers “helpful” (much in the same way that sokka’s protection of katara is often limited by his own narrow worldview and unhealthy sense of duty as it corresponds to his identity). azula wants zuko to be a “perfect prince” in the way that she is a “perfect princess” because she refuses to acknowledge how specifically harmful that paradigm is to both of them until it is too late. so her intentions are actually good (don’t @ me), but she’s just deeply misguided and her level of cognitive dissonance is off the charts generally (again, much like sokka).

meanwhile katara and zuko, despite loving their families a lot and feeling defined by their families in many ways, are still very self-focused. which isn’t to say that’s a bad thing or that they’re selfish (they are both defined by an incredibly passionate and outspoken sense of justice for others, of course), but rather that they understand that what they want is to further their own interests for their own benefit even as they are seeking justice for the entire world. (in katara’s worlds: “me. me, personally!”) but like. if anything, the fact that azula and sokka never think in terms of the ego but only in terms of servitude to the point that they are actually detached from their own humanity is deeply unhealthy and awful, which is why so much of sokka’s arc is about getting him to understand his intrinsic worth as a human being and the value of accepting help, and azula’s tragedy and downfall is precipitated by her acknowledgement that she has been deliberately isolated her entire life and now she is alone and utterly helpless.

I do see katara and zuko as quite heroic, inspiring characters, to azula and sokka’s quite tragic, heartbreaking characters (especially azula of course, but like. I don’t think sokka’s deep-seated, copious issues have somehow been magically resolved just because “the boiling rock” is his apotheosis. you get it). but katara was always the “valued” sibling whereas azula began as the valued sibling and zuko rose above her by disrupting/transcending the paradigm that valued her only to end up in the position that she felt teleologically entitled to (not to say that she thought she would become fire lord, but that he does become the most powerful player in the fire nation, at least in name). and a large part of that is the fact that katara and sokka grew up in extremely different conditions than azula and zuko did, even if both their worldviews are informed by imperialism and patriarchy in some way. so katara was valued as a sort of cultural artefact who represents the last hope of a dying people, whereas azula was valued as the obedient daughter of a powerful abusive patriarch. it’s still a way of ascribing “value,” but the criteria are completely different in both cases. which is why I still think that azula and sokka are functionally more similar, because even if azula is valued, it is with the expectation that she function in the same way that sokka is expected to function, as a depersonalized vessel for the good of their people.

so there are similarities for sure, but also those similarities are constantly being complicated through locating their respective cultural contexts as they informed their upbringing, psychologies, and sibling relationships. I will say that it’s true that both of these relationships are unhealthy (to an extent), and both sets of siblings parallel each other in very significant ways, but the ways in which their relationships are in fact “unhealthy” are nonetheless almost diametrically opposed.

[yourhighness6]

I can't remember where I saw this but there was this post I saw a while ago about how if zutarians "really wanted to engage in media analysis they would ship zvkaang" and I just... Ugh.

For one, the age difference is gross to me, especially considering a lot of anti-kat@ang zutara arguments center around the fact that Aang was not mature enough to be in a relationship based on the way he treated Katara, and pointing out that Katara is considerably more emotionally mature than Aang throughout the series. Shipping Aang and Zuko, who remember are canonically twelve and sixteen throughout the series, may be okay for a lot of chronic anime fans (from my understanding anime has huge age gaps like that all the time) but a large age gap is basically the first thing that puts me off of a ship. It's the same thing with ships like tokk@ and zvtoph and sokk@ang. A two year age difference is fine for high schoolers, but four years is really, really pushing it, especially when you consider that Aang would be fourteen when Zuko is eighteen.

And if that weren't disqualifying enough, whereas zutara has a truly incredible amount of romantic coding from the music used in certain scenes to small gestures such as them reaching for each other in the final agni kai and Katara's thumb on Zuko's lips in the crystal caves scene to the "she's not my girlfriend!", a common romantic trope being used several times between them, zvkaang has no romantic coding. They honestly remind me of that "platonic tension" textpost that was making the rounds a while ago. That being said, I do understand that "chemistry" and "romantic coding" are fairly relative concepts, but it definitely isn't heteronormativity that makes people see zutara instead of zvkaang as romantic (and although I also ship zvkka to a lesser extent the same can kind of be said there).

Anyway, with a weird age difference and zero romantic coding, that, in my opinion, kind of derails the ship, but its also worth mentioning that the original post's only argument seemed to be that just because Zuko and Aang are narrative foils, it makes sense that they should be romantically involved, which frankly, isn't a very good argument, especially when you consider that Zuko and Azula are also narrative foils and siblings. Narrative foils come in many forms, and come to think of it, I don't think I ship narrative foils from any show I've ever watched. The parallels between zutara often specifically highlight how they might suit each other romantically, and fit with the show's themes of balance.

This is just my opinion, and certainly not meant as a callout for any zvkaang shippers, especially those who are zutara and zvkaang shippers, I just felt it necessary to debunk the idea that if zutarians actually cared about literary analysis, they would ship zvkaang. It's just another half-assed, poorly thought out way to delegitimize zutara shippers and pretend that the ship has no canon basis, while in reality, anyone with an objective eye for media analysis can see that zutara is by no means a ship to be ignored.

[thedomesticanthropologist]

K could someone explain Bloodweave to me way that makes sense because I'm lost on how those two would connect and

I actually don't like the tag #oldmanyaoi it... Seems like people are mashing them together just cause they're hot and older D:

And I know Astarion says he wouldn't want to be in a love triangle with "UGH, Gale"

And the ONE time Astarion tries to flirt with Gale he's like don't u enjoy our walks together and gales like yaa... In silence

Asty is poly and gale is mono but Asty can do mono relationships so that's fine

I don't see the attraction between the two (I see how good they LOOK together but not how they'd actually connect romantically), and I'm not trying to be a dick I literally would LOVE to hear all your favorite reasons why they work together, please tell me. Im here to listen to all the things.

I understand the narrative foil situation, they both got stuck in power imbalance situations but that's not... I don't see the connection beyond that and it didn't feel like enough so I wonder if I'm missing something.

I've read so many great bloodweave fanfic and I think the fan art it gorgeous but I still can't really see how they'd match up and I think someone who loves them and has thought a lot about this could tell me more so I get the angle of the ship better !

[partywithponies]

Glossary of media discussion terms I invented myself and then bring up casually as though you should know what I mean (AKA Tash Translation Guide):

The Inherent Eroticism of Solving Crimes Together:

the simple fact that the kinds of common character dynamics between the two leads of any given detective or mystery or police show (i.e. trust, devotion, talk of being "partners", sneaking around together in the dead of night) are often very easily read as romantic or sexual to fandom-brained people, even if that obviously wasn't the intention. Even if one of them's already married. Even if there's a 30 year age gap. Doesn't matter

The Holliday Grainger Effect/Holliday Grainger Syndrome:

Named for the actress Holliday Grainger and the MULTIPLE TIMES she has been cast as the less attractive/less desirable narrative foil to the more conventionally attractive and desirable female lead, as though we're all supposed to pretend Holliday Grainger isn't also an incredibly beautiful woman

The Milton Keynes Conspiracy:

Named for my joke conspiracy theory about the teen soap Grange Hill, in which I claim that within the Grange Hill universe, Milton Keynes isn't actually a real place, and that whenever a character disappears suddenly with the only explanation given being that they "moved to Milton Keynes", that was just code for them having been disappeared by the government for getting too close to The Truth™️, and every time something odd or unexplained happens or something major is just brushed under the rug and forgotten about, that was all just shady alien-related government activity and all part of The Milton Keynes Conspiracy. I tend to bring up The Milton Keynes Conspiracy whenever a show's canon, continuity, or geography makes absolutely no sense under close scrutiny and the only "logical" explanations left are things like time loops or aliens or cracks in space and time or government conspiracies.

Bastard Man (Affectionate) and Bastard Man (Derogatory):

A very important distinction. The sparknotes version is that a Bastard Man (Affectionate) is a Card Carrying Bastard who does it all with charm and charisma and confidence, knows they're a bastard and takes a twisted pride in it, and is at least funny about it, while the Bastard Man (Derogatory) is just whiny and sad and won't actually admit to being a bastard man, and usually the narrative won't admit it either and keeps treating him like a tragic hero no matter what. Has a tendency to just get away with stuff with no payoff and isn't even funny about it. Shares a lot of DNA with:

Sadboy:

My absolute least favourite character archetype, though that's purely subjective and there are still SOME Sadboys I like. I know that my opinions are not universal because part of the reason I have such a visceral dislike for them is because they're often tumblr sexymancoded and I cannot escape them in the show's tags. They're wet. They're pathetic. They're miserable. And they're pretty. Usually played by a skinny pale white boy. (Like I said. Tumblr sexymancoded). And because of this, the show and the fandom alike will expect you to ignore the fact they're an awful person and excuse everything they've ever done wrong. Look, you can't be mad at them, look how sad they are about it. Look at their big wet puppydog eyes. In fact they haven't done anything wrong at all and you're crazy for saying they have. It's everyone who was mean to him who is wrong and his wife/girlfriend is a bitch for getting mad at him. He's just a sad wet little meow meow. Ugh. Disgusting. When will [REDACTED ACTORS HERE] answer for what they and their characters have done to me.

[theavatarandthefirelord]

zukaang for the ask game

Thanks for the ask, anon! Also you made my day because I rbed the ask game (both here and on @chocomd) really really hoping that someone would ask me about Zukaang 😂

001 | send me a ship and I will tell you:

when I started shipping it if I did:

I'm pretty new to the Zukaang ship, but I've loved their relationship ever since I first watched ATLA in 2021. Then I got into fandom mostly for Kataang, but Zukaang always pulled at me. After a while I could see Aang and Zuko together romantically, but I never quite shipped them...until I started writing Zukaang into fic. The first time was in a Kataang fic, when they were so close (but still only friends) that people mistook them for a couple. And then last month I wrote a short fic, Nebulous Roads, that actually WAS romantic Zukaang...and yeah I became obsessed. It's like I've been peering over the edge at Zukaang for the longest time and someone finally pushed me in 😂

my thoughts:

Every enemies-to-lovers ship wants what Zukaang has!!! I'm not even talking about the infamous z.tara...I'm talking any ship, any fandom. Narrative foils who are uniquely isolated in their lonely destinies, connected to each other spiritually, antagonists even in their past lives, destined to meet again as enemies only to heal the world as friends, each one bearing scars that carry such emotional baggage, they give each other hope even while they're enemies, the way they are perfectly yin and yang...ugh I could go on.

So I find a lot of enemies-to-lovers ships not very compelling because the "enemies" part is either watered down or they hate each other so much that the ship isn't convincing (to me), plus I need more than chemistry to ship a pair. But Aang and Zuko were truly enemies and the animosity between them wasn't watered down (Zuko sincerely did try to harm or kill Aang lmao), but they grew to see each other as something more and were actually drawn to each other, and their path to becoming friends in canon is done so amazingly well. And while some of their romantic tension comes from their chemistry as antagonists, it's WAY more than just "argue/fight then kiss because I think you're hot." Anyway, enemies-to-lovers generally isn't my thing, but wow does it work for Zukaang!

What makes me happy about them:

The healing that Aang and Zuko find in each other. The rupture between them started with Roku and Sozin and with the Fire Nation wiping out the Air Nomads, and ends with Aang and Zuko finally closing that rift and bringing peace to the world together. Plus all of the trauma they both went through in their own lives mirrors the other like yin and yang mirror each other (and yet they each possess a piece of the other), and the way they find healing in each other makes my heart ache in the best way 🥺

What makes me sad about them:

That it's challenging for them to openly be together in the canon ATLA world (which I am very attached to since the canon story is what drew me into the fandom in the first place). Even if Kataang and Maiko didn't exist, there would be major political consequences if the post-war world found out that the Avatar and the Fire Lord were in a relationship. Plus there's the fact that Zuko needs to continue his family line, and Aang would need to find a way to bring back the airbenders (although I can see him giving up that particular task to the universe to figure out). I'm also very attached to Kataang, my other ATLA otp, and I don't love the idea of cheating in either relationship, so a world where both Kataang and Zukaang might exist would be very complicated...although I do have a solid idea for a fic that includes both ships (and it's not Zutaraang lol).

things done in fanfic that annoys me:

Not something that annoys me exactly, but a lot of fics seem to focus on Aang being there for Zuko's needs, and less so the other way around. And I get that, because Zuko is kind of a mess lmao. But Aang is human before he is anything else, and he has suffered both emotional isolation and unimaginable loss. Relationships aren't transactional, but I have a hard time seeing Aang in a romantic relationship with someone unless his own emotional needs are met as well - and I would love to see more of this in fic!

things I look for in fanfic:

I love fics that explore Aang and Zuko's connection in a way that pulls on the things that make Zukaang...Zukaang. I love their intensity, their tenderness, the history between them that stretches from the present and all the way back into the past one hundred years, how they can't stay away from each other even if they tried.

I also love fics that aren't afraid to explore the things that make their relationship complicated. What does it mean for the Avatar, the last airbender, to be in a relationship with the Fire Lord, the scion of the dynasty that committed the Air Nomad genocide and started a worldwide war? This would make for a lovely political and social mess, at the very least. And what about the fact that Zuko was indirectly involved in Aang's death in CoD and sent an assassin after him to make sure he stayed dead? There's so much to explore even with this point alone - how would the past haunt them while they're still figuring out their relationship? Or even when they've been together for years? (Btw I'm firmly in the camp that Zuko really was That Bad because his character needs that for his redemption and for the ATLA story to work.)

Who I’d be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other: 

Aang with Katara; Zuko with Mai (or Jet, though it probably wouldn't last lol)

My happily ever after for them:

Hmmm...for those who know my taste in stories and fic, I am very ok with not having a happy ending and sometimes that's what I prefer. HOWEVER. My happy ending for Zukaang is that their relationship in the canon ATLA world would be complicated and they can't fully be together (because we're following canon here). But after they both die, they are reincarnated, and 1000 years later they find each other again - not as the Avatar and the Fire Lord, but as two people without such heavy expectations riding on their shoulders, who can freely share their lives together at last. (This is happy I guess? But sad before it gets happy? 😅)

who is the big spoon/little spoon:

They would take turns being the big spoon! I ship them when they're older, so Aang is a little taller and loves being the cuddler. Sometimes it's Zuko, especially when he just wants the reassurance of holding Aang in his arms 🥺

what is their favorite non-sexual activity:

They would get into some silly shenanigans 😂 Like riding an air scooter together with their eyes covered or have dumb contests like "bet you can't do this without bending" lmaooo

send me an ask about a ship or character, or 5 characters you want me to rank!

[branwendaughterofllyr]

That’s such a good point about always asking ‘why?’/ ‘what for?’ when it comes to a theory’s narrative relevance — what it would mean for the story, what point would it make etc. It’s why I could never get my head around people being so dead set on a T4rg restoration as a positive endgame when we have all this legitimate reasoning for their downfall pre-AGOT, why they are distrusted, why their ideology is deeply suspect, and so on. It’s counterintuitive to me that the narrative would essentially return full circle to that regime, a T4rg on the throne, when they’ve been presented to us in such a specific, abusive and uncomfortable way. It devalues that pre-AGOT story, IMO. Bcoz it’s not enough to be ‘not like other T4rgs’ for me, the active association is too damning, too telling of what someone’s interests really are. But it’s like you said, people get deeply attached to one obviously biased pov and so disregard the wider, layered narrative that GRRM is trying to create through multiple povs that prompt us to question those who seek out power and if they can ever be truly justified in what they do to attain and/or maintain it.

It drives me wild that so many people don't ask "then what was the fucking point?" when talking about the ending of ASOIAF. The Targaryens had like two-three good rulers, all of whom ended up making some really horrible choices in the end that nearly burned the whole continent to the ground (This IS a Jaehaerys I hateblog). It's crazy to me that so many people that Fire&Blood is positive for the Targaryen Restoration when it's basically just a full length book's worth of "look at these bitches! Who put them in charge?" (the dragons). And then have Dany basically go "yes, fire and blood is a valid way to rule, my ancestors did nothing wrong" makes me highly skeptical of her chances.

And the PoV for trap for Dany is amazing, because as of ADWD, none of the enemies she has gone up against have been sympathetic (I mean, I think MMD is, but a lot of people don't) or even povs. Which lets her fans sit there and say "no, look, the people's she's up against are clearly terrible and she's the hero in this scenario." Which is going to shift drastically when she goes up against the Starks, who have no reason to love her and vice versa. How can Dany declaring that Starks and Lannisters are both the usurper’s dogs and therefore equally evil and her enemy not make everyone sit up and take notice. Yes, Dany going “Eddard Stark and his heart of ice are responsible for my family’s downfall” is absolutely going to win over Jon “I just want Ned Stark to be proud of me” Snow and Arya “I will cut anyone who says shit about my parents” Stark. I foresee no future conflict there!

The theories about the three heads of dragon having such traction make me laugh, when the choices Dany presented with are “fire and blood” and the literal and metaphoric planting of trees. She has to chain up her dragons because they are inherently at odds with creating a better future, but she chooses the path her family has walked again and again to the detriment of everyone else. Dany’s refusal to learn from her family’s mistakes and arrogance, is what dooms her to meet the same fate as the rest of them. The idea that “if I look back, I am lost” is her madness mantra makes so much sense, since if she looks back at the path of destruction she and all the other Targaryens have left in their wake, she might falter and reconsider, so she plows ahead straight to her doom, is ugh, such good writing.

(And it works as a foil to the Starks, who are so haunted by their pasts and the past of their families, they can never untangle themselves from it, even when they try to disappear into another identity)

So what does it actually mean for the narrative, if Dany didn’t actually live in Braavos? Does it change where she’s headed at all? What point would it serve if Tyrion is a secret Targaryen? What point does it serve if anyone is a secret Targaryen? Does it change the fact that the Targaryens burn themselves to the ground based on a flimsy prophecy one of them was arrogant enough to to believe, and no one checked the deteriorating madness of their head? That the Targaryens have set themselves over literally everyone else, to the point that they would rather practice incest than marry those beneath them? And the heroine of would-be Targaryen restoration doesn’t question any of this, and just says that it’ll be different this time! Because she has the magic nukes again!

And it’s brilliant because it really is all about “the hero of the other side”! Of course everyone likes to think that they are the hero, and it’s easy to fall into believing the same when you spend so much time in a character’s head. It is much harder to try and bring together all these different PoVs to try and figure out the broader narrative. And because Dany is so seperated from the rest of the characters, is easy to dismiss all the problems she has in coming to Westeros because none of the other characters really know her, and it’ll be different once she’s there, because she’s different, when it’s been set up that pretty much every POV character has a reason to keep a Targaryen with dragons at arms length and in reality, Dany has nothing to challenge those reasons.

It’s great writing, but it clearly has and still does go over some people’s heads, which is comepletely fair because ASOIAF is, in fact, a LOT. But it so often comes from the same people who dedicate immense amounts of time and energy to the series, and that’s when it becomes funny