#Treat him like the misunderstood and tragic villain he is

[some-pers0n]

Okay after seeing that nuclear bad take about Albatross being a "fucking psycho", here!! Get another one of these emotional rants of mine.

Albatross is a character I think a lot of people misunderstand. I think a good chunk of the reason why this somewhat new obsession I have over him was kick-started by just how many times I saw people on Reddit or in YouTube video comments go on and on about how he was insane in the membrane and was a pure evil dragon. It reminds me of my thoughts on Orca as well, where I don't want to take her at face value and see her as this dragon who just wanted to take over the throne. That's boring. I like the idea of her being something more.

But with Albatross? We've got a lot more evidence pointing to him being more than just "crazy old dragon". Reading the text, you see that Albatross is just kinda..sad? He's miserable and I personally get the feeling that he regrets having spent decades being bossed around by Lagoon. That he's tired of being seen as this freak-show dragon who could snap at any moment. He did once all of those years ago, and now it haunts him ever since.

Lagoon (and Sapphire to an extent) and their impact on Albatross's life is one that I find extremely overlooked. I don't know how people can think Albatross had no reason to do any of this and was just "snapping because he lost all of his soul" when Lagoon literally was egging him on just minutes before the massacre happened. He was being shown like a disfigured and disturbing trophy to the SkyWings. Statues of herself built by Albatross for no other reason than to have statues of herself. Lagoon flaunted her control over him and how he could do anything for her, mentioning ideas for enchantments that'll make her immortal. When Albatross speaks up, she shuts him down. She emotionally manipulates him by bringing up Sapphire again, saying that he'll never live it down. She then goes on to say how happy she is about how Fathom is an animus, excited to finally replaced her old, snappy, and unreasonable brother.

How much more obvious can you get that Lagoon was manipulating and controlling Albatross? For god's sake we even see this in the guide as well, with Lagoon bringing up Sapphire again. Lagoon uses that one tramatic event as leverage for everything. Something that she did is now Albatross's fault forever because he swiped back. He didn't want to be beaten down and made fun of anymore. He didn't want to be tormented by them any longer.

It's a moment that haunts Albatross. He regrets it deeply. It was an accident, but Lagoon won't ever make him forget it. She used the guilt that Albatross felt and made him do anything she wanted. How could he do such a thing? Cut off his sister's talons and drive her to madness? Lagoon knew how much this incident impacted Albatross. She wanted to make sure he always knew that it was his fault. That, no matter what, he will never live down being the one to ruin Sapphire's life.

His entire life he's more or less been just a means for Lagoon to exploit. A tool for her to use whenever she wanted something. The Summer Palace was more or less a vanity project, where Lagoon could show off how she has two palaces now. I don't think he ever used animus magic for himself. The only time he acted of his own accord, he would be snapped at by Lagoon. Him being mentioned to have traumatized dragonets by setting the trees ablaze during a Talons of Power ceremony was, again, brought up by Lagoon so that she could remind him of how he's unstable and should listen to her.

Not to also mention that he was described by Fathom as kind, albiet distant and somewhat cold at times. I don't think he was evil. He was a dragon who was spat into a world that was unkind and took advantage of him at every moment. Him being different than the others was the catalyist for everything. He was told he would be nothing more than an unstable, murderous dragon who could snap at any moment.

And he did just that, didn't he?

[evenmorefatallyobsessed]

Toga’s AU Concept

He visited Sanctum on a whim, he was in Mistral visiting his niece Saphron after all, why not visit the school that was training it’s future protectors… Was it truly chance that it happened when he got there at that moment. That he stumbled upon the horrified students backing away from a scene from a horror movie.

A girl over a boy, her skin pale, hair a dull gold but utterly contrast by the crimson of the boy beneath her, of his blood leaking, his eyes wide in equal parts horror and confusion as the girl above him drank deeply. Her aura lighting, brightening with every drop more she drunk.

But from her eyes another purely liquid dripped, tears that contradicted the madness in her eyes, others stood confused. But not him, never him, he didn’t hesitate, to hesitate was the let others suffer. The girl moved with surprising grace, avoiding him while her features altered, matching her victim��s.

His hand reached out as he enforced his soul into him, willing thew boy’s body to mend though his soul’s light. The second he saw the student’s face gain some of it’s blush ensured his life her turned on her and launched after the girl.

She’d been smart to run instead of fight, it was a fight she wouldn’t win, couldn’t win, but escaping was just a futile. She was fast, agile and athletic yes, but he was a skilled tracker. If she was faster, he just had to rely on endurance to carry him through.

And it did…

She’d been locked up, and they were debating her sentence, the sentence for an aura user with combat training, she was a threat. And perhaps he should’ve left it well enough alone, but he didn’t, and spoke to her.

And he realized the tragic madness that spurred her on. Toga Himiko was not a monster, she was a girl, gifted with a powerful Semblance, great potential and an honest easily corruptible heart. One’s semblance could influence a persons personality quite easily. After all, it was the manifest of your being, of your soul. How could you not begin to ponder its meaning, how could you not attempt to reflect it’s nature on your person, within your actions.

She was dangerous yes, unstable without a doubt… But, she was also alone, her family couldn’t understand her and feared her for it. Somewhere inside he knew she understood her sense of love was twisted. Was not the norm, after all, why else would she have cried when expressing it.

This was no monster, no villain of demon, she was a girl, a pitiful, lonely, misunderstood child who wanted nothing more then to express her love the only way she could. They way her very soul demanded she act out. All she wanted was a connection, was someone to understand her, was to have friends, family and a love that could accept her deviant nature, a nature she had no control of.

How could he call himself a Huntsman if he couldn’t save a single girl from her crippling, cruel loneliness. So he visited her, again and again, using his pull and connection with Ozpin to freeze the freeze the girl’s sentencing while he worked things out.

She started to look forward to meeting him, and he’d admit to the same, after all she was so cheerful and oddly endearing. If not for her eyes being amber instead of blue he’d had thought her one of his nieces.

Apparently after he started visiting regularly she ceased any resisting and even halted trying to escape, he started to bring her things, even cooking for the girl. Not helping but to feel she needed food a bit better then what they served here.

… He hadn’t expected her to cry, she, she couldn’t remember then last time her mom had made her food… The last time they treated her like a daughter instead of a Grimm. It angered him, it infuriated the Arc. But he held his tongue, and focused on what mattered.

On calling in favors, on talking to his family and getting his affairs in order, Jaune was many things, he was a Huntsman, next in line to be patriarch to the Arc House and a teacher at Beacon. But he was also a criminal who’d cheated his way into Beacon once upon a time. His hands had cut down men, his decisions as a leader had led to the death of innocents before as well.

Toga almost killed a boy, she needed help, needed understanding, to be given a chance. And he was all to willing to risk giving her one.

-0-0-0-

She tried to be normal, to live normally, to act normally, to love normally, she tried so hard, it was also such a struggle, other people’s normal. Other people being able to express themselves, to be themselves and be accepted for it. It wasn’t fair, it wasn’t right, why couldn’t her way be normal… Why couldn’t she be accepted?

Why couldn’t her parents understand her, accept her, but no, they told her it was wrong, that to be so fascinated by blood was wrong, sick and twisted. That she needed to be normal… Were they saying her soul was wrong? She could feel it, ever since her semblance first manifested, since she stumbled upon it so long ago when she’d licked her wound…

Blood was to the body what aura was to the soul, it was beautiful, profound and unique to every person, and she, she could understand it, could indulge, could become others through their blood, she could understand them, be them… It was her normal.

But her parents refused to accept her normal, society refused it, the world and everyone in it refused it… She obeyed, she tried, she struggled to be everyone else’s normal… Until she met him.

Saito was a amazing boy, he was kind, smart and popular, everyone liked him, everyone respected him, just like a lot of other girls she grew to like him. So often she fought the urge to ask him for some of his blood, she wanted to be like him, to know him, to Become him…

But she smothered those urges, because she knew he could not accept them, nobody could accept a freak like her so she resisted the urge. She fought to stay ‘Normal’ To be a average, cheerful, reasonable, well-mannered girl that others could accept, even if it was all a act…

But then Saito got into a fight, and seeing him like that… so wonderfully bruised and bloodied, it made what was so twisted inside go crazy. And it all came crashing down… And she was upon him, moving on not instinct but pure natural movement, as unconsciously as one breathed she gave to her semblance’s nature.

His flesh parting so easily from a mere box cutter, his aura was shattered in the fight with other beforehand. She drunk from him, his blood tasting like the sweetest of irons, so warm, so filling, so unique to him and him alone…

It was ecstasy, finally, finally she got to be herself, she was able to express her love, she felt herself turning into him. His aura, his soul, his being, she understood it so much more in that moment. She knew it was all over, her life, all her efforts, they would come crashing down. But for just a moment, she wanted it, to be her own normal, to be herself…

And then he appeared, he saved Saito, and stopped her, his gaze held so much in it, there was the anger and disgust she expected, but also something new… Pity.

His name was Jaune Arc, he was a Huntsman, a professor, and he stopped her, but he didn’t stop there. He should up to met her in her jail cell, they talked, well, he talked, asking why she did it. And eventually she explained… And, and he listened.

He didn’t understand, but… But he tried to, he asked more, and she could see it, the disgust this anger and confusion, but never was that all she saw. She could see him trying, struggling to comprehend. Time and time again he’d visit, and talk to her, ask her question she’d never considered, asked if she thought what she did was okay.

She knew it wasn’t you can’t force your love on others, but he understood, not because it was normal to him, or because he was like her. No, because he tried to do what nobody else did… He tried to understand her.

He wanted to help her, and then he asked.

“Toga, I need to hear you say it, where you trying to kill Saito?” She knew he needed to hear her say it, so she did.

“No, I just, I wanted to express my love…” And then he told her.

“Toga, you’re not normal, but that’s okay, everyone is different, it’s what makes us unique, what makes life beautiful.” He hugged her.

“You’re not a monster, or a Grimm, your human, and you’ve been through so much.” He was warm… The words slipped from her mouth.

“Please, can I, can I drink your blood.” He paused and she knew she’d be rejected, pushed away and left alone…

“Toga, listen.” But she wasn’t rejected, pushed away, instead the man met her gaze, a sternness in his gaze but also a sympathy, one she’d never seen before.

“You don’t behave like others, and it can be dangerous.” She knew that, of course she did.

“But it doesn’t have to be.” He begun to glow, a soft, kind but powerful white.

“I know, you can help people, more than even I can with your semblance.” His big, calloused hand landed on her head.

“The same way you can take other’s blood, if you gave your love back, you could help so many people.” She shook, she’d thought that too, but, but never hoped others would, would.

“You’re not a monster, twisted or evil Toga, your just different, your semblance, your soul, your beautiful.” It was the smile of a father, of someone who genuinely wanted nothing more than to help her, then to comfort the girl who’d spent her entire if not short life being rejected by others.

“Himiko, I can’t just let you free, unfortunately the law is very clear on that.” She saw the sadness, the anger in his eyes, it was for her sake. But soon enough they were both overtaken by what she would come to know was his most prominent trait, Determination.

“If you agree to it, to come to Vale you can be put on Probation, under my supervision. I’’ be your guardian and probationary officer.” She knew her parents must’ve given up their rights to her by the slight anger that burned in his eyes.

“We’ll attend therapy lessons and you’ll be taught about aura control by me.” He reached into his pocket and pulled it out then, a vial, the most beautiful shade of red.

“Toga, I know the way you view things are different then mine own, but that doesn’t mean you can’t understand me, you lived in this world, acted appropriately for it as well. You understand how the general public views love.” He offered her the vial, the beautiful crimson flowing with his aura, with his soul.

“I can’t promise others will accept your views, or even try, but I promise, at the very least I will do everything I can to make a environment you can be yourself in… And that I’ll try my best to understand you.” She reached, her fingers grazing the glass, the vial warm… Her heart pounded as she looked to the beautiful crimson.

Slowly, cautiously she undid the top, he never looked away from her, never tore his gaze from the sight, there was no rejection as she took him into her. As she felt his soul through his aura, as his being and iron went down her throat becoming one with her.

She felt herself change, becoming him, her pale ash-blonde hair becoming a shade of livid golden-wheat, her fair skin pinking with a healthy flush. The slits of her pupils dilating, the Faunus trait vanishing as her pupils rounded and turned the most expressive blue.

Her aura converting, her soul changing and being replicating that as her very body matched the new soul she was temporarily hosting. And he looked at her through it all, reaching out and patting her head, the smile was genuine.

“If this is how you want to be that’s fine, I’ll learn to get used to it, but please, don’t stop being yourself, even if your appearance changes.” From his hand aura surged into her, his aura, given freely, pure and unfiltered.

Her answer finally came alongside the tears.

“Yes.”

-0-0-0-

She rushed down the hall from her room, excited for the day she’d looked forward to for so long, she couldn’t wait. Reaching the kitchen she found three people there, her sister and brother, Ren and Nora, two others he’d taken under his wing.

At the stove flipping the immense amount of pancakes the Valkyrie craved was Jaune, they waved to her, well Jaune and Nora did. Ren sat patiently at his seat enjoying his tea, she sat there beside them, besides two people who knew her, truly knew her, who accepted her almost as much as Jaune.

Two simple years was all she spent with him, but in those two years she’d felt more joy, more acceptance then ever before. She’d realized truths about herself and flaws in her actions.

She was free to express her love, but not to enforce it on others, to take from people who did not want to return her affections. It was wrong, cruel and that act whether it be her form of expressing love or ordinary expression of it by others were no less disgusting.

She’d help so many people with her feelings though, a little blood and she’d given so much back in turn, to children who needed it, to people with unique cases and blood types meant nothing to her semblance with regular people. She couldn’t help but want to help, even if Jaune worried, she loved him for that… She loved him, loved him more then others. More then anyone else.

But it wasn’t the same type of love she always felt, always knew, no, this was different, she wanted to both love him and be loved by him. To be loved as Toga Himiko, by Jaune, she didn’t want him to conform to her standard of love.

It wouldn’t be fair, it’d be like who she was forced to follow the standard society before she met him, she wanted to love Jaune as herself but also as him whenever the fancy struck her. But she also wanted to love him as Ren did, as Nora did, as so many of his students did…

And soon, she would be able to, today would be the start of it, a plated landed in front of her then, and looking up she met his smile.

“Are you ready Toga, your three will be trying out for Beacon today after all. So you all need to eat up.” He served her her breakfast, more than Ren’s but nothing near the mountain of pancakes he placed before her eccentric sister. But then again the pile her put before himself was barely any smaller. He needed it after all, because he regularly gave her blood, regularly accepted her form of expressing it and indulged that aspect of her.

She loved him for it, wanted to love him even more, even deeper, more intimately then any other, and once she passed Initiation she would. She only hoped that when she did succeed, her partner would be as understanding as her.

Maybe even being able to understand her love, Or Better Yet! Maybe They’ll Love Jaune As Much As She Does! Oh ‘Giggle’ she meant Professor Arc.

[gaywarcriminals]

On Mouthwashing, Qijiu, cruel characters, and the role of discomfort in blorbo analysis. 

I recently watched a playthrough and some video essays about the indie horror game Mouthwashing (spoilers ahead). For those not familiar, the game follows a man named Jimmy in a crashed spaceship where he reveals himself to be an unreliable narrator and fucked up in a variety of ways as the game progresses. 

Although I’m not immersed in the fandom and thus have a limited sample size, I noticed that people treat him as nearly inhuman. He’s the sole bad actor, a terrible monster destined to hurt everyone. I find this deeply ironic considering the game’s themes of responsibility and accountability: isn’t this kind of dehumanization absolving him of his responsibility to act decently?

It’s also strange to me, because the game goes at lengths to show Jimmy has an enabler. Captain Curly is Jimmy’s friend and boss who is made aware of Jimmy’s erratic and violent behavior multiple times, chooses to do nothing, and ultimately makes possible many deaths through his inaction. Aside from Jimmy’s public outbursts, there are even scenes with a specific member of their crew expressing how unsafe she feels around Jimmy. Despite this, a decent portion of the fandom sees Curly as nothing more than one of Jimmy’s victims, which is curious to me when placed in contrast with Yue Qingyuan and Shen Jiu.

Yeah yeah I’m blorbo-brained, but I think there’s a lot of points for comparison between Qijiu and Jimmy & Curly, at least in terms of their dynamic and social roles. Jimmy and Shen Jiu are both antisocial assholes with an unhealthy fixation on the generally well liked and affable guy just above them on the totem poll. They’re both convinced their superior is looking down on them, and resent the power he has (SJ less so, he has a lot of other reasons to resent YQY). They both use what power they do have to abuse those below them. Curly and YQY, for their parts, are shown to be explicitly aware of most if not all of their friend’s worrying/dangerous behavior, but do nothing meaningful to stop it. 

If they’re so similar, then why in the case of Mouthwashing is Curly often absolved of his complicity in the face of Jimmy’s overwhelmingly awful actions, whereas in the Scum Villain fandom, it’s just as common to see people pin all of SJ’s actions on YQY and vice versa?

Now, there’s a couple obvious reasons for this. For one, Mouthwashing is a horror game and Jimmy very effectively makes himself the antagonist, which lends itself to the interpretation of him as a the monster afflicting the other characters. For another, Jimmy sexually abused a shipmate, which is a particularly despicable crime (although so, I would argue, is child abuse). There’s also the fact that Curly is very physically robbed of agency for most of the game’s runtime, which might make it harder to see his power and agency before that point, but perhaps the most important difference is that to fans, Jimmy is deeply unlikable, and Shen Jiu is not. 

Personally, I think the reason a lot of people make Jimmy out to be a monster and Shen Jiu to be tragically misunderstood is simple: it can be uncomfortable to like a bad person. 

I don’t think there should be any shame in liking characters who are fucked up people that do horrible things, but I think it chafes at some sensibility within many of us, learned or innate, when we feel such deep emotional connection to a character who’s actions we would normally morally condemn. 

I’ve definitely observed that in some parts of the Shen Jiu fandom– it's the kind of sentiment that leads to discounting his canonical actions in favor of fanon. I’ve never found those fanons very compelling because I have never had any discomfort with Shen Jiu’s canonical actions— in fact, him being a despicable if pitiable mess is what drew me to him (I’m typically quite the fucked-up-evil-guy liker). For once, though, I find myself on the other side of this discomfort with Yue Qingyuan. 

I was thinking today about how one of the earliest things YQY says to SY!SQQ— his 9th line in the novel— was telling SQQ that LBH is strung up in the woodshed, where SQQ always leaves him after beating him. It implies not just that YQY knows about this singular punishment, but that this is an extended pattern of behavior. To me, YQY seems uncomfortable with the situation, but he does nothing to stop LBH from being abused aside from telling SQQ to “be less hard on him”, even though he’s the only person in the sect above SQQ, and potentially the only one with the authority to stop him. 

If Yue Qingyuan knew, did Luo Binghe know the sect leader had found out? Did Luo Binghe know he had been abandoned to his fate?

Like Curly, I think that Yue Qingyuan’s most unforgivable fault as a character was enabling Shen Jiu’s abuse of Luo Binghe and potentially other disciples. I think YQY’s motivations made sense, and I understand the choices he made, but when I think about it for too long I can feel a deep pit in my stomach grow. 

Why does YQY’s arguably lesser crime of enabling SJ bother me so much more than SJ’s own direct actions? Perhaps because I still want to see Yue Qingyuan as a good person, whereas Shen Jiu has already declared himself evil. Maybe I’ve been a little bit caught up in our unreliable narrator’s point of view. 

Fascinatingly, despite his adoration for Luo Binghe, Shen Yuan cum Shen Qingqiu never (to my recollection at least), blames Yue Qingyuan for SJ’s actions. Instead, he sees YQY as one of SJ’s victims— someone that SJ as good as killed, even if it was LBH’s orders that loosed the arrows. 

Shen Qingqiu has a tendency to, for lack of a better term, woobify his favs, and although LBH is by far the most frequent recipient of this treatment, I’d argue that YQY actually receives it more consistently. This is partially because he’s relegated to friendly NPC whereas poor Binghe is the Big Scary Protagonist, but the only time in the whole novel I can think of SQQ seeing YQY as a person capable of harm and fucking up is after YQY’s confession where SQQ puts it together with SJ’s flashbacks, but even then, SQQ sees him more as a cautionary tale for him and Binghe than someone who’s hurt others. Given this narrative bias, I’m honestly surprised* that more of the fandom isn’t simping for YQY too.

Ultimately, I think this discomfort is normal and worthwhile– something to lean into rather than away from. I’d even say it's necessary, should we ever hope to be more media literate than Peerless Cucumber.

*well, I’m not, but that’s a whole piece of fandom history better left untouched

[friendsdontlieokay]

Thoughts about Billy Hargrove?

Love this question, wrote a long post about it just now but saved it in my drafts because I figured that was way too long to be even interesting, anyway to sum it up, I think Billy is one of the most tragic and deeply misunderstood characters, who is often mislabeled as "villain" even, because he wasn't one, not even in season 3 because he was only a host for the mind flayer, not a member of it's team.

He had the potential to be one of the most loved characters, but to bring that forth he needed to be understood and loved, he wasn't the best character I know, especially because of the way he used to treat Max, he had a very traumatic and abusive childhood true that, and again, he needed love, but that doesn't give him the upper hand to treat a kid the same way he was treated, but did he change that? Yes he did, even though most likely because he was threatened, but let's be honest, Billy took out Steve, he's most definitely not scared of Max, I guess he just stopped interfering with her life anymore, there's no point in inviting more trouble in your life anyway, not when you have a father like Neil at that too, and I guess he realised that he was being an asshole towards Max her whole life too, and trust me he regretted it, otherwise his last words wouldn't have been "I'm sorry"

But yes as I said before, he did have the potential to be a way better character if he didn't sacrifice himself, and that brings up the point why his character is one of the most tragic ones, he gave up his life to save a little girl (and a lot of other people) he didn't even know, only because she could see through him, understand him, and remind him of the love he deserved and got, made him realise that once, and boom, off goes Billy to sacrifice himself to save her, because that's who Billy Hargrove is at the core.

(Sorry, I was supposed to keep it short but that's one of the things I suck at doing, plus it was a character study sort of thing so it couldn't be helped)

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

I once saw someone say that Jack Horner is an example of what Astruc wanted Chloe to be but failed to execute properly. Do you think there's any validity in that statement?

I think it's down to how their backstories and actions are treated.

With Jack, he was meant to be a parody of the villains of Disney's recent animated movies that were either sympathetic, misunderstood, or capable of redeeming themselves (some examples include Professor Callaghan, Namaari, and the live-action versions of Maleficent and Cruella). The difference was that they subverted it by showing that despite having a good childhood and loving parents, Jack was still a selfish man who wanted to gain control of all magic after being upstaged by Pinocchio.

Jack also works as a character because of how he contrasts with the other characters in the movie. The blatant selfishness of his wish later ties into the revelation that the wishes Puss, Kitty, and Goldilocks all want are just as selfish when they already have what they want in some way, where Jack is unable to learn his lesson.

Here's what makes Jack work compared to Chloe: There's a semblance of self-awareness in the way Jack is portrayed. Jack is a character who is fully aware of how evil he is, mistreating his men, being willing to shoot a puppy in the face, and breaking the spirit of a bug who just wanted to help him change his ways. He acts in a similar way to Chloe by acting over the top to show how selfish he is, but because we know we're not supposed to sympathize with him or his backstory, Jack admitting how evil he is with no excuse to justify his actions is what makes his sadism charming.

With Chloe, they tried to do something similar by downplaying how terrible both of her parents were by having her "make up" with Audrey, but because they tried to play her backstory and tenure as a hero seriously in the first place, that's what made her betrayal and subsequent transition into a full-time villain, you don't really find any sort of entertainment out of Chloe's evil moments because of how hollow the attempted deconstruction of a redemption arc played out. The show just expects us to ignore any sympathetic moments Chloe had and act like she never had any good inside her.

For context, imagine if Jack actually had a tragic backstory. Imagine if Pinocchio actually ran his family's pie enterprise out of business, and dedicated time to showing how the Horner family had to deal with living in poverty... only for a later scene to just ignore all of that and keep Jack's motivation to gain control over all magic while ignoring how important his family was to him like in the actual movie. It'd be pretty jarring, wouldn't it?

[let-us-cultivate-our-garden]

This is dumb but I wonder if they intentionally avoided ever showing kid Philip without a mask or young beardless Philip because it would humanize or make him too sympathetic or something

We did see kid Philip without a mask but only as quick glancing shots of the HM portraits and as a puppet in Masha's story. Given how little attention Belos' backstory is given and how it's completely ignored in the finale, it's a fair assumption that the show only wants you to see him as just the villain. He may have been just a kid once but that was a long time ago and a sad backstory wouldn't excuse his actions, the show seems to say.

Sorry, but the idea that depicting the villain with humanity and sympathy "excuses" his actions is nonsense. I can see why some fans would feel that way since bad writing can easily make it seem like a show would gloss over heinous actions a villain has done in order to focus on how terrible their childhood was but there is a way to both acknowledge the humanity of the villain while also focusing on the all the harm they've done.

Belos could have easily been a Tragic Villain but the show went the safe route in just explaining his motivations with one line from the Titan and leaving it at that. It's much more comforting to paint the villains as delusional, selfish, and insincere instead of recognizing that we all have a little darkness in ourselves and given the right circumstances, can follow a similar path.

There are no morally grey characters in The Owl House; characters are either fundamentally good who occasionally make mistakes but had good intentions/were tricked or they're just villains.

Consider the Collector; for how menacing they were in Season 2, they were boiled down to simply being a Misunderstood Kid whose bad actions were either explained away as being naive or attributed to someone else.

To show Philip as a kid or as a wayward young man would mean they would actually have to treat Belos as a character instead of an overarching obstacle for the heroes to conquer.

[hieronymus-botch]

Alright, I’m just gonna come out and say it. Philip Wittebane is the definition of wasted potential. Ever since the Belos = Philip reveal, I had been waiting for them to make his motivations actually make sense, and then the show ended and they never did. He wanted to kill all witches because magic is evil, even though he uses way more and more obviously evil magic than any of them, and he thinks he’s better because he’s human, even though 17th century Puritans didn’t conceptualize witches as a separate species that were racially inferior, witches were just people who made pacts with the devil to do evil magic, which is closer to a description of him than anyone else on the Boiling Isles. And no, I am not a namby-pamby Steven Universe fan who thinks every fictional villain should just be a misunderstood outcast and get a redemption arc. Bill Cipher’s motivation wasn’t nuanced or complex at all, he literally just wanted to destroy  the world for fun, but he was still a fucking fantastic villain because he was funny and charismatic. “But OP!” I hear you cry, “Philip isn’t supposed to be tragic and sympathetic OR funny and charming, because he’s a fascist!” Well, see, the thing about that is, if we’re meant to take him as a serious, non-sugarcoated depiction of fascism, he fails at that too! Witches and demons aren’t a marginalized population, they don’t even interact with humans at all under normal circumstances! Humans aren’t an oppressor class, they’re basically space aliens! In fact, I’d say that if we are to read the show as a serious depiction of fascism, it’s a Boy In The Striped Pajamas-level actively harmful one, given how the draining spell was something literally no one but Philip knew about until it was too late, which is a bullshit myth many people believe about the Holocaust! And you can say that just the stuff he was open about like the coven system and the conformatorium is enough to put him in fascist territory even without the attempted genocide, then why are half the coven heads, the whole Emperor’s Coven, and everyone else who knowingly and willingly enforced all of it treated as innocent victims who are immediately forgiven the second they change sides? If giving him any amount of sympathy or charisma or motivations that make sense would be giving good PR to fascists, then the way the show actually played out is basically saying that Himmler and Göring were probably perfectly fine people who simply weren’t aware Hitler was such a bad egg, which I feel like is a hell of a lot fucking worse! It feels like one faction of the crew wanted to make Philip a tragic, complex villain, and another faction wanted to make him a serious political allegory, and a third, larger faction didn’t care about him at all beyond the bare minimum of being a force for Luz and the gang to oppose, so what we got is a villain with a tragic backstory that’s only ever vaguely alluded to and indirectly glimpsed, and the aesthetics of fascism and conservative Christianity (except he can’t ever actually reference Jesus or God or Hell or the Bible because Disney) without any of the inconvenient ramifications.

[meteorstricken]

This ask is about the post you reblogged with the Ultima voting and I agree: Ultima is not a perfectly written character at all, but most of his critics are definitely comparing him with other FF Villains.

The funny thing is if he was written like a revisit of characters like Sephiroth, Kefka or even Garland pre or post-Stranger of Paradise; everyone would whine anyway.

Which is ironic, as technically he IS a revisit of a FF villain: The Final Fantasy Tactics' Ultima, who basically acted the exact same way as he did, with the sole exception that she didn't act as a god creator. Said game that some critics also whine that FFXVI isn't: a dark and tragic story for the heroes, realistic politic drama, mysterious conspiracy in the shadows, powerful magical beings- wait what do you mean FFXVI also has that? ...And yet, funnily enough, it was reviled when first released in 1997 because it was a spinoff, had a weird and complicated gameplay and THE new hot stuff FFVII came first.

Life is funny that way. If annoying...

Yeahhhh...There is a long and terrible tradition with Final Fantasy in general where the newest game gets lambasted as awful until the next one comes out, at which point the previous starts to be hailed as a misunderstood masterpiece.

And I'm just not into that. Life is short and the clock is never not ticking. If I dislike a game enough that I'd want to publicly bitch about it, I just stop playing it. No sense in giving it more oxygen, and even less sense in giving others with a different opinion grief.

As for Ultima, my argument was that there's nothing particularly wrong with how he's written, but that some people just don't like him because he's not their favorite archetype. I see a lot of that--people deciding that "not my favorite kind"= "flawed writing". This is annoying to me, because it shows that some folks just don't know how to discern between their personal opinion and objective analysis, or are so attached to their opinions that they treat them as facts, which in my book is a symptom of extreme arrogance. And what usually follows on the heels of this arrogance is mean-spirited behavior towards other fans who don't agree with them...and on and on.

[milfcamilanoceda]

Belos for the ask game

Belos is one of The most well written characters i have ever seen. If i saw him in real life i would have punted him. I believe he is an incredibly tragic character. He fucking dug his own grave and is about to lie in it.

Belos works so well both as a villain who very much exist in real life as well as personification of evils of conformity and institutionalized "us vs them" rhetoric. He has been such a breathe of fresh air as a villain because like at first he is presented as this possibly tragic figure with possibly understandable intentions (that narrative may even treat as sympathetic), and it is because we have gotten just so many of such villains and they have become so prevalent in media especially nowadays that we begin to expect it. And thing is he is a tragic character and a misunderstood hero TO HIMSELF. He is a tragic righteous "did bad things for good cause" TO HIMSELF AND HE WANTS PEOPLE THINK OF HIM LIKE THAT TOO!!!! Cause the truth is his actions are just absolutely heinous and unforgivable and the show does not shy away from it. For centuries he destroyed both himself and everyone around him for a goal he considers holy but in truth is anything but good. And it is not because he is greedy or something like that but because he genuinely believes he is in the right, making him the character with the strongest belief in his morals even though the said morals are just absolutely evil. And the show does not shy away from that. The show never goes "oh but he really is a good guy inside" or "he was influenced by a higher power" or "it is because of his tragic backstory". No just never we are repeatedly shown the damage he has caused and that he did this willingly and even though he says he is in the right the narrative does not agree with him at all.

And just ASGLKFSFIGVVDSBK man just i have so much to say about his character but i literally just woke up and my head is not supportive but my god Dana and the crew really went off with his character just no bars hold just all out while writing and designing him

[cinderellaenjoyer]

Ride the Cyclone Swap AU! Including my OCs Serenity and Mary-Ann because I can do whatever I want

Ocean - The Angriest Girl In Town (Swapped with Mischa). She's mad at the world, mostly her parents (and herself).

Noel - The Boy From Out Of Town. When he said he wanted a tragic death he meant he wanted to FEEL it. Not have a sudden heart attack and only realise when he's in the warehouse. Why does the Choir get one not fair ☹️😡

Mischa - The Nicest Boy In Town. Instead of being bitter about it, he really, REALLY wants Uranium to like him despite him not growing up there. Is more of a pushover in this AU.

Ricky - The Most Misunderstood Boy In Town. Unlike Serenity, his title comes from him being treated as some poor, helpless little boy, and not a teenager who just so happens to have a disability. Still has his wild imagination in this AU, it's just less prominent.

Penny Lamb - The Most Imaginative Girl In Town. A lot of things that happened in Legoland are not only made up in this AU, but full-on rewritten into an action hero story. Johny Moon' is now a traitor/ villain instead of a musician. She did still get bullied here, but it's a little better than in Legoland.

Constance Blackwood - The Most Successful Girl In Town. She's still nice here, but less of a pushover. Now people only see her as this successful high-achiever. It was great at first, but, well, it starts to make you tired when success is expected of you.

Mary-Ann Watson - The Most Romantic Girl In Town. She moved from her old town to Uranium in this AU when she was a kid, but still feels out of place. Started romantizing everything to feel better about not really fitting in. She actually wants to travel when she's older. Ran a lemonade stand for some time to get money for it. Her only costumers were kids and the choir.

Serenity Laurance - 'Jane Doe'. Her personality in life was more or less the same, but it lead to a lot of people not actually knowing who she was. Parents had something out of town on the day of the fair + she didn't get to concert on time, so when a body was found without a head, she was ORIGINALLY put as a Jane Doe. Later did get identified irl by her parents, but since she never got her fortune read, stays a Jane Doe in the warehouse. Still has trouble socialising as Jane Doe, but instead of being cynical, she's just. Very weird and off putting (love her for it)

Virgil is a rat with the power to a person back to life and can talk in this world. He's the narrator in this world, Karnak just reads fortunes and handles the choreography. Noel HATES Virgil because he's a jerk. Like OG! Mary-Ann, he's not happy Karnak knew his death would happen and didn't say, but is generally cool with Karnak.

[welcome-to-maniac]

[on a piece of cardstock written in cursive with quill pen. under a stuffed black cat plushie and a boquet of red roses. flower petals all over the bed and trail leading into the room. candles lit around being the only source of light.]

i have always cheered for the villian

i love hearing their stories that have made them cruel hard and tough

with walls built up so high no one can get in

yet i always fantasized of being the one that breaks in

there's something about a villain

when he kneels down and crumbles for the one he loves

even the thought of that gives me the chills and goosebumps

the hero has a story with detials

he is heard and validated

the hero is loved adored and praised by everyone around

the villain? well

the villain has a beautiful tragic story that no one seems to understand

a hero would sacrifice [him] to save the world

because the greater good is what matters

but a villain would tear the world apart in a heartbeat

because [he] is the greater and the only one that matters

so he treats [him] like a [king] and betroth him by his side

a villain is a soul that was broken once twice and thousands of times

so he understands and loves every inch of [his] wounds

curves and scars

so i've always fantasized of being understood

by the most misunderstood and misjudged

of experiencing love with the unloved

of expressing emotions with a so called cold hearted

and i know [he] must be so unique for him to let [him] in

because it can only be [him]

and only [him] for him that universe has chosen

and i'm not a pick me

but i've never felt chosen

i eill contradict you when you tell me you love me

if i give you a million reasons to leave

and if the world throws billions to hate me

i need to know your one from the million reasons

is strong enough to keep on loving me

and that is the way a villain chooses [him]

over and over again

against all odds

and i guess that's why i fantasize about being [him]

i guess that's why i find myself choosing the villain

@/chaotically_b_ [on tiktok]

@livealittleoc-cb

this was so long-

Minho blinks in confusion when his roommates insist that he walks into his room without turning the light on. He couldn't exactly see in the dark, the last he checked. Shrugging it off as Changbin and Seungmin being little shits, he walks into his room. It wasn't like someone had laid a boobie trap in there.

It's very romantic. He's really lucked out, hasn't he?

"Kim Jooheon you sap~" Minho laughs, following the trail of flower petals to his bed and clearing a spot for him to sit down, patting the cat plush sitting beside him. He's even got half the mind to name the thing Nebula. The flowers are perfect and Minho listens to the compelling urge to set it on his nightstand. Bringing the soft toy to his lap and admiring how soft it is, he spots the note in the corner of his eye, a pre-emptive fond smile on his face.

Joo's been doing this a lot lately. He likes it.

The first few sentences make Minho scoff, already taking a guess at who the villain is. But the more he reads, the more he starts choking up, his throat tight and caught with emotion. This is Joo's confession of love, physically in his hand and plain as day. By the time he finishes reading it, Minho is sobbing, cardstock confession placed to the side as the love he has for the older man spills from his eyes, his head hanging low.

[y2kbugs-moved]

Reverse Unpopular Opinion Meme: Viktor Arcane? Or Jayce if you want to do Jayce Defense

 I want to do BOTH because these guys are a PAIR and should not be seperated. This WILL be long so I’ll put it under readmore

Jayce will go first because his character is still quite misunderstood by the fandom and he still gets unnecessary hate for some reason? He might be a flawed man (just as all the characters are), but I don't think anything he does warrants so much hate in my opinion?

Especially if you look at the context of the events within the series and how he reacts to these events, and knowing his background helps. He's a man who grew up privileged though he did have a traumatic childhood experience that was the driving force for his ambition in science and magic/hextech. His lifestyle beyond what happened when he was a child could probably be described as "comfortable".

But that could go on a whole rant about why he’s misunderstood by the fandom and why him being a flawed person does not make him a fundamentally bad person, and this is about good things I like about the character, so:

1. He’s very handsome. I’ll get this out of the way first, he’s super good looking and the designers knew that. He has the same eye color as Viktor and I’m a sucker for eyebrow scars! Also LOVE his hammer weapon. He looks a lot better than his game counterpart, and speaking of...

2. His personality and ambitions in the series are a lot more admirable and attractive to me than what I’ve seen from the game lore. He just seems a lot nicer (though grows bitter towards the end)? I get that he probably will spiral further into his game-self in some way in season 2 and that’s going to be something to see! I guess it is a corruption arc but on a smaller scale than Viktor’s. Kind of a fucked up Superman.

3. I adore his relationship with Viktor, especially when compared to the game again (at this point it sounds like I’m dissing on the game lore...I mean, the lore has some really good bits in it! And I’m sure the series will make use of those good parts of the lore! Just other parts are a little less...great and also can be inconsistent). He isn’t afraid to put his hand on Viktor’s shoulder or back and it’s usually pretty clear he cares for him, even if in some scenes it might not look like that (this could just be my interpretations of specific scenes however). I’m 100% of the interpretation that he always cared and his sudden promotion into a political position and the stress that came with it + the potential war from Zaunites coming on really jeopardized things for both characters, and from there we can see where they’re breaking up and going to spiral down. This is why their divorce era in season 2 is going to be even more tragic!

Now it’s Viktor’s turn! My blorbus maximus, the scrunkly etc etc Spamton who (I’m kidding, I still love him).

Viktor is also misunderstood but kind of in the opposite way to Jayce? I’m actually seeing similarities in how some of the Deltarune fandom treats Spamton when it comes to Viktor’s character, and that’s going to be something to consider when we get season 2 since we get his villain arc! But pretty much I’m seeing some similar ableism and infantilization of his character, making him seem weak and helpless and I get it, hurt/comfort is great but you can write that without going into offensive tropes and stereotypes?

1. Like Jayce, he’s also hot. In a very different way, though. I’ve always been really drawn to his eyes in particular, they’re so cool to me. How do people draw those? Teach me. But the other thing that makes him different is that, I feel like the animators still kept him attractive even as he got very sick? He’s hot in a Victorian period tragedy sort of way. I have a type.

2. Beyond just his looks, he is just such a good character in his arc, and I love how he works as disabled representation. Now he isn’t perfect of course but he’s probably the best I’ve seen in a long time. He isn’t portrayed as pathetic or middling because of his disability or illness, if anything it’s the opposite! He actively shows himself to be self-assured, though reserved as a person, and he works so hard to try to make the world a better place, and does everything he can to keep himself alive instead of just...”giving up” on his sickness. Of course we all know where this ends up but to be honest I am excited!

3. He has so many good lines, probably some of the best in the series in my opinion? I also love how emotional he is and how that will absolutely affect him later on in his corruption arc!

There’s absolutely more but my mind’s gone blank again.

[briarthorne]

I actually wanna share an unpopular opinion: Sometimes it's not that character that make people hate it. It's the fans.

I'll example Speedrick (no hate to you liking it, but I found it annoying) the fans depict him as misunderstood. Okay, maybe. Has a bad backstory. Yeah could be.

But to DISMISS what he DID is really annoying, I'm sorry. The fans that go "OMG! WhY aRe YoU hAtInG hIm, He Is A tOtAl AnGeL! sO mIsUnDeRsToOd!" is totally annoying. You all can make your own backstories and etc but if you use those as a reason why he did something and that he is an angel even when he did that, then I believe there is something really wrong with you.

Your art and that other person's (forgot their name) art about Speedrick are amazing btw. But the other girl is making him look innocent and like he didn't just attempted to stop/kill Blaze, and that made me really dislike the character up to this point 💀

Disclaimer: No hate to anyone who likes Crusher, Speedrick, or anyone who likes antagonistic characters in the show. This is just my personal opinion made from my time watching the show and observing the fandom.

Oh. I agree.

Since the show's interpretation of the characters is limited, it is up to the fan content creators to decide what traits a character has.

And, also, I haven't seen anyone say that Speedrick is an angel because of his backstories before. The person I followed has not stated a solid backstory for him nor do my other friends. And I agree, that his backstory doesn't excuse his actions, but it seems that a lot of people tend to forget this very fact. It gets annoying at times, but I bear with it. Most of the time.

Crusher is also an example of this. His actions in the show threaten Blaze's, AJ's, and others' safety multiple times because of his greed. And I like how he's getting better.

Another example is Lazard. He stole the powers of other animals because of his insecurities, but he was forgiven without any punishment, which, to me, was so infuriating. Another example is Treat Thief. She was gluttonous and stole so much from Axle City in such a short time, yet she was forgiven after she says sorry and even became Officer Anna's friend.

I love the villains, truly. Because without the villains, there would be no hero. But just because they are redeemed doesn't mean they do not have consequences.

If this show is for kids, then it sucks in terms of teaching kids the basic principle of karma. Because they could follow the villain's path, and once they think they changed, there wouldn't be any consequences for them. Just because they're sorry doesn't mean that they are immediately good. Villains with redemption still need to face some sort of consequence for their past actions, even though they regret it now. It would be awesome if the show taught kids that.

And the trope, "they're a sympathetic villain because of this and that" is greatly misused. They can't even do the trope RIGHT because there are formulas on how to make an effective sympathetic villain with a tragic backstory. Just look at Gabrielle Agrest/ Hawkmoth from Miraculous Ladybug. The show tries so hard to paint him in a sympathetic light and has the fans not blame him for everything, but from his actions in and out of the mask, he's just majorly abusive. I bet that Emily will file a divorce once she knows how badly Gabrielle treated her son, the creation she DIED for. Like, honestly. Fuck MLB.

Back to the main point. I agree. Just because you have a tragic backstory doesn't mean you deserve to be forgiven or be given a redemption arc and it certainly does not excuse your actions.

[kavrillia]

This is a tricky one because I don't always understand what makes some characters popular and others hated among fans, but I tried to extrapolate given what I've seen in past years of fandom involvement.

S-Tier:

Zarolyn exists to be adorable and wear cute outfits. I suppose some people might find her too saccharine, but those people have no souls. Bwahahaha!

Young teenager Delzeena is a brave, spunky, quick-thinking survivor. Her sass only partially covers up the scars of her tragic past. You cheer to see her get through bad times, but you would rather see her finally catch a break--especially when you remember how young she really is.

Prince Xeebec is an unbearably smug, handsome, eloquent, petty, wealthy, snarky, glorious bastard who wants to take over and rule (at least two thirds of) the world, yet also is plagued by deep insecurities. If he didn't have fangirls, I'd be very surprised.

Empress Vazali is the main character, and we spend more time in her head than anyone else's. If she's not likable, I'm a disastrous failure of a writer. ;) She's definitely not perfect, but she is a kind, empathetic person who sincerely wants to do the right things for her people. Too bad it can be so difficult to know what the right things are when centuries of conflict loom over her and her crown.

Bronzar is our leading man. He's loyal, supportive, stoic, modest, a doting father, looks damn fine in a suit, and thwarts assassins for a living. The trope of the bodyguard developing not-so-professional feelings for the person they're protecting is a popular one for a reason. A solemn oath in conflict with the yearning of the heart...oh, the angst!

Abarok would be dubbed a cinnamon roll, too pure for this world. He's funny and sweet, and the biggest girlboss around would kick anyone's ass to protect him. He's also ace, so hooray for representation!

Zadie is the aforementioned girlboss: brave, headstrong, smartass, funny, loyal, treats the rules like suggestions, will go to the ends of the earth for those she loves. Being an active soldier means she is fit and toned, with noticeable arm muscles, and some people are definitely into that.

Xorax is a conflicted villain who was brainwashed from birth to believe the false idea that he must assassinate certain people to save his ancestors' souls from eternal torment. The angst potential is through the roof. He's got the dangerous, grim-faced, standoffish aura that makes fandom want to break him until he's sobbing out his deepest insecurities in the arms of a Mary Sue. So what if he tried multiple times to kill a little girl? He's just misunderstood, you see!

A Tier:

Sicara gets to wear sexy, fiery dancing outfits. She's kind and compassionate but not a pushover. She also has a soft spot for lost souls in need of guidance.

As only the daughter or sister of the monarch, Kazaneta gets to say the things her more reserved relatives would never dare to utter. She's not afraid to call people out on their B.S. She's also a good mom and a fun aunt.

Zalani is mysterious, rich, sexy, and loves to manipulate those around her to further her own goals. She's also bi and struggling to advance feminism in a patriarchal society.

B Tier:

Emperor Xeres dies in the first chapter, so the reader doesn't get to know him first-hand, but we hear good things about him from his wife and daughters. The unresolved conflict with his son is fodder for drama and angst, though.

Queen Vizada is the mother of the main character, and she goes through some dark times after her husband's unexpected death, so she would garner some sympathy.

Rimzor isn't the most fleshed out character in the cast, but he's a good soldier and friend who's often caught in the middle of his colleagues' arguments. There's plenty of room for people to have headcanons about him.

Zola and Leva are both the embodiment of the "be gay and do crime" meme.

Zenni is just kind of there in the background of a lot of scenes, filling a more supportive role in the plot. He's your typical young boy who enjoys collecting action figures, watching cartoons, and showing his sister gross pictures in books to make her scream "eew!"

C Tier:

Cazella is only in the mini-sequel, not the main plot, but if she was around in the thick of things I imagine she would be a bit divisive. Some people would like her because she's a resilient, stubborn, compassionate person who's been through some serious trauma and picked herself up again afterward. Others would hate her because she's the canon love interest of a character who didn't have one in the main plot, so she'd interfere with people's headcanons and self-insert OCs.

Zelda is ditzy, shallow, and lazy, but pretty funny and not a bad person at heart.

A gray-haired man who can still pass the physical for the Imperial Guard? Ambruk would probably qualify as a DILF to some people.

Irina is devious and beautiful, a good combination for anyone who likes their pretty characters with some edge. She's not the deepest character, but there's room for headcanons, and some fans can probably relate to her crush on Xeebec.

Nartok is an antagonist but not evil, trying to get out from under his father's shadow and prove himself. Still, he's enough of a bad guy that people who like those kinds of characters would sit up and take notice. Alas, he's a misogynist and has bad breath, but determined fans have smoothed over far worse traits in their favorite characters.

Ontaz is a sickly old man in current canon but I can see flashback fics where he's the political leader of the Vincaran nationalist movement, the mastermind behind an assassination, and super charismatic. (I can also see people shipping him with Commander Xarax, even though that is absolutely not canon. They were partners in founding the Vincaran Federation, not anything else.)

Minalla is a stern, no-nonsense middle aged woman in military authority. I know there are people out there who would want her to step on them.

D Tier:

Tradlak is kind of a blank slate. He's one of the empress' guards, and good at what he does. That's it.

Lareza had kids with Xeebec, and their marriage went belly-up. Not much else to say or work with. I suppose someone might try to write a fic in which they reconcile.

Lynzari is in two scenes, one of which never even names her. There isn't much to be a fan of, but she's got goth and emo vibes, so someone might be drawn to that.

Brialla is a batshit crazy old lady who talks to her dead husband and abuses her grandchildren. Enough said.

[ravewing]

buddy WHAT ??? 😭🙏

just because there was a reason as to why he snapped doesnt mean that it was okay for him to murder almost an entire family of innocent dragons (as well as bystanders like the musicians and the skywing princess).

was what lagoon did to him okay? absolutely not. she mentally abused him for his entire life and pretty much kept him on a leash– and she made sure that he knew that he was nothing more than her pawn. i agree with you in that sense; it was only a matter of time before he was pushed over the edge, and i do believe that he was justified in killing lagoon (at least, not in front of literal children).

but anon– he still murdered a large amount of innocent dragons who quite literally did nothing to him. those dragons didn’t deserve to die just because of what lagoon did to him. you’re overlooking the fact that the rest of the seawings albatross killed were completely innocent bystanders—CHILDREN included. he literally would've killed pearl, who was FIVE, if she hadn't cut herself up with broken glass and pretended to be dead (ntm fathom and indigo as well. literal CHILDREN). they weren’t involved in lagoon’s manipulation, nor did they treat him like a weapon. they were family, and some of them literally loved him. killing lagoon out of years of built-up resentment is one thing, but taking down an entire family, many of whom had no power over his treatment? that’s a massive leap into unjustifiable territory.

you’re right in saying that albatross’s pain and suffering at the hands (talons?) of lagoon can explain why he snapped, but it doesn’t excuse the massacre. he wasn’t 'taking control of his fate,' he was lashing out in a brutal, uncontrolled way that targeted anyone and everyone nearby– guilty or not. you can sympathize with his trauma, but once he began indiscriminate slaughter, he became more than just a victim; he became a villain.

and sure, fathom's account may have been biased because of his fear, but that doesn’t mean that it was false. he witnessed firsthand the horror of what albatross did. he was young and scared, but that doesn’t mean his perspective is unreliable. being afraid doesn’t mean he didn’t see things clearly. if anything, it probably made him more aware of the danger around him. he loved albatross, he looked up to him, he trusted him– id go as far as to say that he idolized him– and still, he saw firsthand how terrifying that massacre was.

fathom wasn’t some random outsider judging albatross from a distance. he was right there, watching his beloved grandfather tear through his family. he wasn’t looking to demonize him; he had every reason to want to believe in albatross, to want to see him as good. im pretty sure that when albatross first killed lagoon, fathom's first thought was that it must have been some sort of mistake. but even he couldn’t deny the horror of what happened. saying fathom was biased completely ignores the emotional complexity of the situation; just because he was scared doesn’t mean he was wrong about what albatross became.

was albatross’s story tragic? yes, but tragedy doesn’t just completely absolve someone of the consequences of their actions. he allowed his pain to consume him and he became a danger to everyone around him— innocent or otherwise. that's not just being 'misunderstood'; that's being responsible for the murders of innocent dragons.

About Albatross. I don't get why everyone acts like he’s the villain of the story. I mean, has anyone REALLY thought about what he went through?? The SeaWing Royalties treated him like a tool, a weapon, and just expected him to keep using his animus magic like it was nothing. You think it’s a coincidence that he snapped after years of being used?? No... that was totally justified.

Fathom paints him as this crazed monster, but Fathom was young and... biased. He didn’t understand what was really going on. He was scared, sure, but that doesn’t mean his perspective was right. Albatross wasn’t just a mindless killer, he was pushed to that point by his family. They saw him as nothing more than their own personal weapon, and when you treat someone like that for long enough, what do you EXPECT to happen? It was their own fault.

Honestly, the Massacre of the Summer Palace wasn’t random. Albatross was taking control of his own fate. Those dragons deserved it for how they treated him. It’s so easy to blame the one who did the killing, but no one ever looks at WHY he did it. Fathom and everyone else were unreliable, they didn’t see the whole picture.

I don’t think Albatross should be remembered as some evil villain. He’s misunderstood, and Fathom’s story is what made everyone see him as a monster. If anything, it’s the SeaWing royal family who are at fault for pushing him to that point. Albatross did what he had to do, and honestly... I can’t say he was wrong.

.

[greenpanda-djg]

I've noticed that I and many others in fanfic [this isn't a problem I'm just being self-aware] Have moved the Fake Manual and blame for it's existence to Ming Fan.

Since most of Shen Qingqiu's story from his origin is tragic and laid with misunderstandings you assume this is also one of those things.

I never realised how imbalanced that made Luo Binghe. It makes Binghe's punishment seem overally cruel and as a whole makes Binghe the villain and Shen Qingqiu as a misunderstood self sacrificing hero. [Like death note and how to antagonist/protagonist POV is switched] I do like this take. However I also realise how unfair that is to Shen Qingqiu's character. That he is a broken sad pitiful man but can also be bitter resentful and have such harbouring hate not only to cripple his disciple also making him go through agony in his cultivation he tried to murder him in cold blood on three accounts. Shen Qingqiu is a horrible person, he's completely grey and messed up and Luo Binghe learned from him. Both are a direct unfluence on one another two halves of the same coin.

Ming Fan was an extension of Shen Qingqiu but his death was too much he was just a victim of both Shen Qingqiu and Binghe.

Being pushed into hell and surviving against all odds and knowing your shizun tried to kill you twice, that hate and resentment makes sense.

This makes them more EQUEL. That both of them are two faced actors, who use cunning to get their way, you realise that Luo Binghe became like Shen Qingua. That Shen Qingqiu would fall and be abused by a man named A-lou.

Shen Qingqiu was like those self fullfilling prophets, in his moment of freedom he clawed his way to being a peak lord and tried to carve a safe haven his response is trying to protect it.

He never wanted his own disciples to overshadow him so he wouldn't be replaced he was so hated that even if Cang Qiong had the mantra of Being peak lords together and ascend together, that they would somehow change the rules for him because he wasn't good enough.

Not realising the enviorment he was creating would drag him back to his roots. That the bamboo could also symbolise prison bars.

That his cruelty and need to be safe and protect himself hurt others and had them retaliate and that HE caused his own demise. Also how Luo Binghe treats women compared to Shen Qingqiu. He's hailed as a saviour and YET I bet if Luo Binghe's own MOTHER was treat like that he would murder that person.

I think seeing Shen Qingqiu's flaws, and merits is what makes him intersting. But taking the part out that "Oh it was Ming Fan who gave Luo Binghe the fake manual."

In parts that, at least that way being eaten by ants you'd feel as if Ming Fan deserved it. Only to realise he didn't. At least Shen Qingqiu burned down the Qiu manor, and since no OTHER disciple spoke up against Shen Qingqiu means most of the abuse wasn't true [I mean compared to how Liu Qingge runs his peak] Shen Qingqiu only hurt those around him.

Meanwhile Luo Binghe involved EVERYONE in his revenge, the entire world, Ning Yingying, Ming Fan, Huan Hua, Cang Qiong Mountain- EVERYONE suffered. That even IF Shen Qingqiu wanted to murder Luo Binghe in cold blood, you have to wonder if the crime fit the punishment and it turns out?

no.

But- my take. Is that I think thats why Shen Qingqiu and Luo Binghe are perfect antagonist/protagonist. That both are cut from the same cloth, both are muddy and messed up with their morality and that both would not care if others are hurt unless it's people they care about.

Yue Qingyuan/Ning Yingying.

Just how both Luo Binghe/Shen Qingqiu are a parralell. So are Yue Qingyuan and Ning Yingying.

In both of their WORST moments of their lives, they had a moment of happyness that made it bearable Yue/ when Shen Jiu was a slave. Ying/ In Qing Jing Peak when he was abused.

They care deeply for these two, who are soft and smile warmly and take CARE of Luo/Shen BUT.

It's worthless.

They don't put money where their mouth is and both Yua/Ying put the two in bad situations without meaning too. Yue by saving other children and Shen Jiu paying the price. ANd Ning Yingying making a situation worse by bringing attention to Binghes Jade pendent from his mother.

They are bystanders in the abuse, they SAY they'll help but when it REALLY comes down to it. They can't do anything, there's some excuse.

Inaction.

Both Ning Yingying and Yue Qingyuan are also complacent with abuse espeicailly from their SO and turn a blind eye. Yue Qingyuan would be aware that Shen Jiu shouldn't be around children and shouldn't let a grown man get away with so much- AND that Ning Yingying watched the world burn that others were suffering needlessly with the worlds being merged together and Cultivation being banned.

I also love the parralell that Shen Qingqiu wore white [even though he was scum and came from dark roots and was just a vindictive person] While Yue Qingyuan wears Black, even though he's the sect leader a good older brother and is strong.

Which is a subverse take on a subverse take.

Because Shen Jiu, isn't horrible. He risked himself to save Yue as a slave, then again with Wu Yanzi, tried to help his Shidi [then get blame for it] and even sacrificed himself to Binghe so Cang Qiong and his martial siblings won't get hurt.

Meanwhile Yue Qingyuan has a hidden darkness, that once he would help others but now he only prioritisies Shen Qingqiu, complacent in child abuse. And even when Shen Yuan came back in his mushroom body almost Drew Xuan Su and risked his life JUST for his Shidi.

Shen Qingqiu probably assumes that Yue Qingyuan is nice, but others are jealous that he's given Shen Qingqiu attention? From Shen Qingqiu's POV Yue QIngyuan is NICE.

But we don't really see how Yue Qingyuan acts away from his Shidi.

[I'm only coming to this conclusion that the snippets from the novel Yue Qingyuan was self sacrificing to everyone but in present time the only TIME he shows sacrifice is if it involves his Shidi]

If Scum villain was a AITA Reddit post? I would say ESH. That EVERYONE is grey and problematic, and their morals are a bit skewed.

Shen Yuans EXCUSE is that this isn't reality, so he's kinda have a truman experience. There's a dead body and he's like. "...what a sad pixelated NPC. Rip."

He's even detatched from the others emotions on one hand he's even detatched from himself. He disregards others feelings [like when they care for him] and also see's himself as a scum [even though he tries his best to save them]

It's the fact that he loves them but has a distance because he see's them as 'characters' and they're not real. Which makes it hard to accept their feelings. And treat the world as real. Not realising the IMPACT Shen Qingqiu has on Binghe.

In PIDW, Shen Qingqiu was said to leacherous and bedded many women [which he didn't he only went to sleep being a gentlemen] And Binghe being a galliant gentlment who bedded many wives [bedded discarded forgotten and is essentially a manwhore] Yet one is a scum while the other is just a playboy [I LOVE THAT THIS IS CALLED OUT ABOUT HYPOCRITICAL IT IS]

So Shen Qingqiu rumoured to be a manwhore/ Luo Binghe copies. Shen Yuan uses himself as a human cualdron as he self destructes and Binghe decides to freakin USE that and use Human cualdrons to deal with Xin Mo.

anyway I'm rambling.

The point is I LOVE the take that Shen Qingqiu has a valid reason for hurting Luo Binghe as a disciple [Like being a demon and protecting himself as so many disciples DIED from demons] And that he was just misunderstood and is lack of communication and immedietly taking the blame is intersting.

BUT I also like the take that Shen Qingqiu was the one who gave Binghe the Fake Manual. It makes them more equel. That both Shen Qingqiu AND Binghe are just as bad as each other. That they're written as one side of the same coin.

The same could be said for Shen Yuan and his Binghe. He never seemed to mind the immortal alliance that massacred so many disciples, ding dong ditched his body and had no idea the impact and how close to war he was about to start [like he was the freakin helen of troy] and his influence on Binghe and his disregard of his feelings.

And how Binghe is ALSO just as unfeeling with human life, how he doesn't care for anyone as long as it's his Shizun...