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arizonaraine · 25 days ago

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Sorting Hat Chats: Gladiator

I. Freaking. Love. This. Movie. Is it historically accurate? Not especially. Is the story fairly simple? Yes, but there's a difference between a SIMPLE story and a SIMPLISTIC one. The performances are top notch, the music, the costumes... *chef's kiss.*

So, without further ado...

Maximus is a Badger primary. He recognizes the humanity in the Germanic tribes-- "would you (know you're beaten), Quintus? Would I?" He's a great general, but his heart is at home with his family. After the first battle, he spends time among the wounded and is upset when it is suggested that they "died for nothing." He's deeply loyal to the memory Marcus Aurelius. Wherever Maximus goes, he collects people (Juba, Proximo, the German, Lucius) by being kind when he doesn't necessarily need to be. He inspires loyalty and goodness in others just by being who he is.

In true protagonist style, Maximus is a Lion secondary. There's no pretending with him-- if Maximus feels something is wrong, he won't do it. "With all my heart, no," he says to Marcus Aurelius when he initially refusing to become protector of Rome-- it's a gut reaction. He will not salute Commodus; he turns his back on him. Though he shows some Bird-like strategizing in battle, to me, it reads as an intuitive grasp of going on-- the art of reacting to things rather than planning for them. Even his habit of feeling the earth before going into battle screams Lion: it's a tactile, grounding, in-the-moment exercise.

Lucilla is a Snake primary. She cares about Rome, she cares about her father's memory, she cares about Maximus-- but at the end of the day, she will prioritize her son's safety ahead of everyone and everything else. (Side note: I think that Ridley Scott writes Snake women a lot-- Lucilla and Sybilla from Kingdom of Heaven are pretty much the same character). There's room to argue for more depth here, but I feel that her primary is pretty straightforward.

I read Lucilla as a Bird secondary. She's strategic where Maximus is not. She makes practical decisions, lays plans, and collects information behind the scenes. She also seems to use a bit of a Snake secondary model-- or maybe it's her Bird secondary in an "Actor Bird" form. She knows how to play Commodus, and tries something similar with Maximus-- a little flirty, a little coy-- and drops it the minute she sees it's not working with him.

Commodus is also a Snake primary, but an Exploded one. His whole worldview and perception of himself is wrapped up in a handful of people. He's desperate for his father's approval, even after he kills him (there's a scene in the director's cut with Commodus destroying a bust of Marcus Aurelius, then hugging/clinging to the ruins). All Commodus wants to be loved by his father, his sister, and the people of Rome. With the latter, he compares himself to a father and the people to children. He wants to give them the love he feels he was denied. But his idea of love is destructive to his wellbeing and the wellbeing of those around him. In the end, it gets him killed in the arena-- defeated by his own need for the crowd's approval.

Commodus is a Lion secondary with absolutely no impulse control. His father rejects him? Kill him. Maximus defies him? Try to kill him. His one strategic success comes when he accepts the counsel of a senator to "let (his enemies) come... and nibble." Challenging Maximus-- a GENERAL with YEARS OF EXPERIENCE-- to fight him in the arena is a terrible idea, but Commodus does it anyway.

Marcus Aurelius doesn't get as much screen time as I wish he did (RIP, Richard Harris). He's our lone Bird primary. He's THE Philosopher. He has carefully constructed his worldview, weighed his options, and decided on a course of action. He believes that Commodus is "not a moral man" because he lacks the virtues that Marcus Aurelius values: wisdom, justice, fortitude, and temperance. His choice to make Maximus the protector of Rome is careful and deliberate-- he's observed Maximus in many situations and knows that he does not desire power. That's why it must be Maximus. It's perfectly logical to him, and he believes that he can explain it to any reasonable person (unfortunately, Commodus is far from reasonable). Marcus Aurelius forever puts first the idea of Rome: it is his bright, shining TRUTH.

He's also a Bird secondary: the man writes like nobody's business. He's a deep thinker, a strategist, a collector of maps and other odds and ends to put in his toolkit.

I read Proximo as a Glory Hound Lion. He was once a gladiator himself, and you can feel it in his speeches about the crowd: even though he knows that fame is a fickle mistress, he loves the adulation, the money, being a star. He misses it. He believes that he and his men belong in the Colosseum. Before they go in to fight, he fills them up with his vision of glory.

I think that he's a Snake secondary. He can be charming, he can be adaptable. He plays people off each other to get the best price. He was "the best" in the arena because he "won the crowd." But he knows how and when to cut his loses and go blunt. He describes himself as "an entertainer."

Bonus! I see Juba as a Double Badger. He tends to Maximus's wound even before they become friends. He relies on memories of his people and traditions when things are at their bleakest. He offers encouragement in his own quiet, wise way. Some of the best lines in the movie are his, IMO: "I will see you again. But not yet. Not yet," and "you have a great name. He must kill your name before he kills you."

TL;DR:

Maximus: Badger Primary, Lion Secondary ("The Protagonist")

Lucilla: Snake Primary, Bird Secondary, possible Snake secondary model ("The Villain/the Mastermind")

Commodus: Snake Primary, Lion Secondary ("The Lancelot")

Marcus Aurelius: Bird Primary, Bird Secondary ("The Scientist")

Proximo: Lion Primary, Snake Secondary ("The Robin Hood")

Juba: Badger Primary, Badger Secondary ("The Peacemaker")

(archetype titles ala @wisteria-lodge:))

#sorting hat chats #gladiator movie #maximus #gladiator 2000 #maximus decimus meridius #badger primary #lion secondary #snake primary #bird secondary #bird primary #lion primary #badger secondary

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perplexed-penguin · 2 years ago

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#badger #mushroom #snake #tumblr polls #polls #I have the song stuck in my head if you need an explanation

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missbrunettebarbie · 27 days ago

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The only downside of watching Wicked in the theater was that I couldn't take notes for a sorting post LOL

#sortinghatchats #wicked #anyway rn i am leaning strongly towards #double lion elphaba #galinda as a glory hound lion plus snake secondary #the prince as a snake secondary too #bird sec for the wizard #and badger sec for the evil headmistress (whose name i forgot)

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writingonesdreams · 3 months ago

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Sortinghatchats - Doctor Slump

For details on sortinghatschats analytical personality system, see @sortinghatchats and @wisteria-lodge

Doctor Slump is about two brilliant doctors who used to be biggest rivals in high school. They meet again years later when they both hit rock bottom for different reasons and help patch each other up, falling in love on the way.

For it being a show with a very realistic depiction of depression, trauma, PTSD, insomnia, betrayal and forgiveness, it's incredibly heartwarming with lots of funny and fluffy moments.

Hannul Nam is such a fun Lion Bird. I have rarely seen on being a main character like this. Even funnier, she fits the Bird stereotype of being studious and smart because that'd her Lion goal—to study. Hannul enjoys studying, collecting, preparing and she loves it in such a feeling way, she adjusts her whole life around it. It's her ultimate goal without any higher noble or deeper motivation. She enjoys studying, being prepared, being the best with the grades, and aims for a professor of medicine career because that will allow it again—she will be studying and reading articles with all the prestige that comes with it.

While the acknowledgement seems to play a role for her on the surface, Hannul is willing to sacriface everything for her goal. Not just free time, hobbies, friends and sleep, but also her own self-respect. She is so blinded by her passion and what feels right, she is willing to let her supervisor steal her work, put her down and yell at her, if that makes her closer to her goal, her career.

Except she takes it too far for too long and burns herself down. The show excellently shows her depression, her realisation during an almost accident when she thinks she will die and scares herself with the sheer relief of it being over. When she goes to the doctor, she goes because the feeling is wrong. She can't explain it, she doesn't know when or what went wrong. It felt so right and it still does, so why is she so unhappy? Burn out and depression. It turns out to be too much, she ends up leaving work and works through it with her family that fame and success and respect indeed aren't as much as being in good health.

I think the feeling Lion primary makes the depression so confusing. Because Hannul trusts her gut, ready to back it up with her research and studying and prep. But what if she can't trust what feels right anymore? She burns her primary down at that point, unable to trust what she loves and feels.

That's when Jeong Yo comes into play. Her long year rival, goofy and childish and playful and overestimated teaser who couldn't take second place next to her...who is actually a Badger primary. While he was immature still back then, he was the only one actually capable of creating a bond with Hannul where everyone else failed. He didn't know what she wanted but he became what she needed. As her rival he was the closest and most caring about her at the school and the one who knew her the best.

Goofy and carefree as Jeong may be, he always puts people first. He became a famous as a doctor during his volunteering work in Africa and it wasn't for the fame, but because "people found me interesting for some reason so I rolled with it." They wanted interviews and YouTube videos of him working and inside info and for him to make ads for them, so he did it. He doesn't care about the fame or the money, he likes being what people need him to be.

Even in high school when he blacks out after Hannul beats him in maths for the first time, it's not his pride or excellence that takes a hit— it's his integrity. This is who he is supposed to be, this is what he understands his environment wants. Starting from his parents who demand excellence for him to have worth to his school teacher and his friends. If he isn't the coolest one around, who needs him?

But it's the most obvious during the lawsuit. Jeong loses a patient during a plastic surgery and gets sued for murder, that is all a setup, but that costs him reputation, money, his clinic and friends. And the first thing Jeong does when he realizes the full scale of the damage is to pay his coworker friends first, cause they will lose their jobs because of him. Car, house and clinic don't matter half as much as paying his sponsors and all the people that will lose as side-effect.

The lawsuit and false accusations turn out to be Jeong's personal hell only after he realizes nobody believes him. His integrity, his role in the community, what he was needed for suddenly...vanishes. Everyone blames him, turns him down or kicks him out and he takes it in quiet desperation. Hold out a facade till the last minute. Was it not for Hannul's mother's kindness, no one would have even let him rent a place to live.

Jeong lights up when he is with Hannul. Slowly worming his way to her, he knows instinctively what she needs and becomes this. It's his idea to go from former classmates to friends, it's him who realizes Hannul missed out on having a life and interests for her obsession with studying, and therefore works on giving it to her. Takes her to play games, karaoke, on an improvised bus trip. He does all the playful childish things with her and riles her up with the competitive banter from their teen years. He makes her smile and relax and feel stuff.

Hannul doesn't reciprocate until she realizes this is indeed the answer. This is helping. No one understood, nobody helped as much and as successfully as he did. Nobody understood that well what she needed even if everyone was trying. Once she feels herself getting better because of him does she start caring in turn. She becomes his biggest defender, studies his case - in her wonderful Bird secondary way - and finds him a crucial study similar to his own that helps him in court. She studies his sleep patterns and behavior and devises ways how to help with his insomnia and trauma and fears. He becomes a sort of her project, and she builds him up step by step.

For Joeng's secondary I'm guessing Snake. He is defined by change for me. His demeanor changes completely depending who he is with and with his feels about what each person or group around him feels and expects from him. It's quite powerful. He is the friendly doctor with shining smile from the ads. He is the serious and sad suspect on the trail. He is the polite and shy neighbour and renter, but he can switch to being the goofy high school rival in split second. The way he can completely change when around Hannul and then her family, with his friends vs other friends...and he is good at it. Enjoys it. It's playful and fun and creative and it depends on the situation. He is very expressive and emotional when he is alone, so he doesn't loose touch with himself or his feelings. The way he is helpful and always puts others first without realising he is doing it is so Badger, but the playful personality switching depending on what's needed or when he can relax and when he can't is so Snake.

Jeong tells Hannul to put herself first instead of just her goal. Hannul tells Jeong to think of himself and not everyone else and what they want from him. She often becomes the main defender of his interests. No, he won't take the interview, cause he finds it uncomfortable, even though he would say yes to the reporter if pushed. No, he won't forgive you that easily, although Jeong has a habit of forgiving about anyone who actually apologises (giving second chances is very Badger of him).

It's very fun to watch them take care of each other and be and say what the other needs as they slowly accept that for themselves as well.

In the end, Jeong gets a family in Hannul's family, forgives his friends that betrayed or were jealous of him (under Hannul's careful inspecting supervision) and Hannul learns to stand up for herself, even if it's not profitable for her goals. It feels good, in the end.

Hannul Nam - Lion/Bird

Jeong Yo - Badger/Snake

#doctor slump #kdrama #analysis #sortinghatchats #park hyungsik #badger snake #lion bird

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queereads-bracket · 3 months ago

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Queer Fantasy Books Bracket: Round 1

Book summaries below:

The Locked Tomb series (Gideon the Ninth, Harrow the Ninth, Nona the Ninth, and others) by Tamsyn Muir

The Emperor needs necromancers. The Ninth Necromancer needs a swordswoman. Gideon has a sword, some dirty magazines, and no more time for undead bullshit. Brought up by unfriendly, ossifying nuns, ancient retainers, and countless skeletons, Gideon is ready to abandon a life of servitude and an afterlife as a reanimated corpse. She packs up her sword, her shoes, and her dirty magazines, and prepares to launch her daring escape. But her childhood nemesis won't set her free without a service. Harrowhark Nonagesimus, Reverend Daughter of the Ninth House and bone witch extraordinaire, has been summoned into action. The Emperor has invited the heirs to each of his loyal Houses to a deadly trial of wits and skill. If Harrowhark succeeds she will become an immortal, all-powerful servant of the Resurrection, but no necromancer can ascend without their cavalier. Without Gideon's sword, Harrow will fail, and the Ninth House will die. Of course, some things are better left dead. Fantasy, science fiction, horror, mystery, humor, series, adult

A Snake Falls to Earth by Darcie Little Badger

Nina is a Lipan girl in our world. She's always felt there was something more out there. She still believes in the old stories. Oli is a cottonmouth kid, from the land of spirits and monsters. Like all cottonmouths, he's been cast from home. He's found a new one on the banks of the bottomless lake. Nina and Oli have no idea the other exists. But a catastrophic event on Earth, and a strange sickness that befalls Oli's best friend, will drive their worlds together in ways they haven't been in centuries. And there are some who will kill to keep them apart. Darcie Little Badger introduced herself to the world with Elatsoe. In A Snake Falls to Earth, she draws on traditional Lipan Apache storytelling structure to weave another unforgettable tale of monsters, magic, and family. It is not to be missed. Fantasy, young adult, Indigenous futurism

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sailorgoon13 · 9 months ago

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wisteria-lodge · 9 months ago

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badger primary + rapid fire/actor bird secondary

Hi! I’ve passively loved this system for a couple of years now but it’s only now that I’ve discovered that you actually do real people sorts! Anyway, I am pretty sure of being a Snake primary, but I’ll have you be the judge of that.

My Dad is a double Snake, however, my Mum I think is a Badger/Lion and this obviously creates a lot of conflict between them. I really care about both of them and though me & dad understand each other better on a fundamental level, he can also be quite a harsh and manipulative person (he has the typical Snake secondary thing where he tells you whatever you want to hear until you get close to him or he’s exhausted enough to let the masks drop, and at that point he becomes quite harsh, which my Badger/Lion mum does NOT like, and she especially doesn’t like how “fake” he is), and my Mum always reacted very negatively to my behaving like him.

A Double Snake and and Badger Lion could easily have periods of looking very similar, and very in sync, and then just… circumstances change and they couldn’t be more different. That’s a tricky one to navigate. So you’ve got a bit of cultural negativity surrounding Snake secondary, noted.

So I kind of spent most of my life feeling torn because the two people I cared about the most had very opposing expectations of my personality

Definitely getting inklings of a Loyalist primary (Badger or Snake.)

my Mum’s love in particular felt very conditional even though she was always very supportive of all my intellectual endeavors.

I spent the first 18-ish years of my life with “saying whatever I need to get what I want” as my primary strategy in life

Definitely sounds quite Snake secondary (sounds a lot like your Dad’s Snake.)

and constructing a “cool, popular girl” personality that would give me enough social capital to get whatever I want.

Oooh, have we got some Bird secondary going on? Because this sounds like it could be Actor Bird. The very conscious way you went about building “Cool, Popular Girl” (even using words like “constructing”) and fact that this persona has a name, probably had a costume, and is purpose-built for a specific environment, not a specific person... sounds very Bird.

What I wanted, though, wasn’t anything particularly ambitious: I’m very conflict averse so I made shit up to avoid conflict.

I associate this with Snake and Bird, the two “I move” secondaries. They’re water, flowing around obstacles. Lions and oddly Badgers are far more likely to pick fights.

I wanted to be have strong “ride or die” friendships with people I could protect and who could protect me in turn (I first wrote “group of friends” but I now realize that I kind of struggle with groups of people - I just never have the feeling of being part of a group, just having ties with individual people, so I guess I want to be part of a group in the sense of having ties of affection and loyalty with several people who also have them with each other).

This is such heavily Snake primary-coded language, that I’m kinda wondering if that’s on purpose, and you’re looking for a specific answer from me… :)

However, because what I got from my mum and, quite honestly, the media I liked was basically “my personality=villain.” I tended to seek out other people perceived as “villains” as some way because I felt that they would accept me more easily.

I wish it weren’t the case, but you’re right, that’s a common thing. Especially if you’re a Double Snake or a Snake Bird, which I think are your two most likely sortings right now.

I also really hated people who treated their friends badly or arrogantly and tended to bully them

I mean that’s the human thing, but it’s definitely something that would bother a Loyalist (Snake or Badger primary) a LOT.

there was this one swotty girl who was constantly looking down at her friends and treating them badly, and I just decided to make her life living hell because I was so morally affronted by it.

I’d love to know exactly what your strategies were, because that would tell me a lot about your secondary. But there does seem to be a suggestion that there was a Mean-Girls-stye *plan* here, which kind of makes me think Bird.

Another friend also abandoned us and found another friend group where everyone was basically in love with him and he was using them for attention seeking purposes and I also reacted to this quite harshly.

“Abandon” is a very dramatic word to describe a friend [entering a slight fuckboy phase?] and switching friend groups.

The thing is, I also tended to abandon some people, which doesn’t clash well a Snake primary, I guess? One of my HS friend groups were really quite asshole-ish, and I ended up ditching them, but that was because I felt like they were treating other close people (of theirs, not mine) badly?

Okay. So here’s what I think is going on. You’re a Badger. Hear me out.

Yes, I think that your Badger looked like a Snake for a good long while. But you’re close to your Dad, and your Dad’s a Snake, and young Badgers will do that, look like authority figures or beloved people in their community. It really hurts you that your parents are not a united unit, not a community. A Snake would have an easier time just having separate relationships with each of them, even if they didn’t get along. Same thing with your friend that switched friend groups. That’s a very Badger way of looking at the situation. The Snake thing would be, well - he’s your friend, and it doesn’t really matter what group he’s him. But a Badger would want him to stay in the better group, the group that was better for him.

You hate it when people mistreat their group. You hate bullies (Captain America style.) That’s all Badger. You also talk about multiple, conflicting groups of friends, and that whole “Cool Popular Girl” - I mean, it’s not exclusive to Badger primaries, bit it is definitely a very common way for High School Badger primaries to present.

I had also decided to start taking school and stuff more seriously and I just kind of felt like their affection would be conditional on my bad bitch persona, got scared and ran? It was a long time ago, I don’t really remember.

This is Bird secondary thing. Getting “suck” in a persona, and worrying that people only like you / you only have value because of it.

The turnpoint came when I met my first serious boyfriend, who is definitely a Snake secondary but I’m honestly not sure if he’s a Snake or a Bird primary.

The so far elaborately constructed web of lies and reputation building that was my life led to the downfall of our relationship, because it combined with some external circumstances made trust difficult

You have a complicated relationship with Snake secondaries, but you yourself are a Bird. “Construction,” “reputation building,” the web metaphor… it sounds like a Bird. That’s just not how Snake secondaries think.

what I somehow got out of it was a deep fear of betrayal and abandonment

and possibly Burned your primary a little bit (probably another reason you’re picking Snake for yourself, Burnt Badgers look like Snakes.

and the impression that if I wanted people to love me and stay by my side, I should be very open about who I am (so that I’m sure that it’s me that they’re loyal to and not their personal image of me), and just try to be the kind of kind, morally upstanding person that people couldn’t fault for anything.

These are two mutually exclusive goals. If you’re totally honest and open about who you are (the Lion secondary thing) - then you will absolutely ruffle some feathers and rub people the wrong way. It’s a totally different approach than being the “kind [person] that people couldn’t fault for anything.” (Which is more of a badger thing.)

Forcing myself to act like this led to a plethora of mental health issues because being very open about who I am is just… not who I am?

You also just set yourself for failure. There is literally no way you could have achieved what you set out to achieve. And how is “forcing” yourself to act a certain way more open and genuine? It sounds like you built a Badger secondary model out of fear, and just sat in it for a while.

And it was very anxiety-inducing for me. Even now, when my mental health is much better and I’ve settled into who I am, I like showing off my playfulness and wit and keeping the rest of my personality behind a neutrally charming mask.

And that’s… good? Normal? That’s also very Bird. Just have a charming, Badger-flavored ‘customer service’ face that you wear as you go through the world. Go into Neutral when you feel comfortable. (Birds go into Neutral very much like Snakes do, but the change usually isn’t as dramatic.)

Also, my success until that point was based on a lot of improvisation and quick thinking, and while I kept that to a point, it also always led to a bunch of moral panic because in my head, being this kind of person is what gets you abandoned.

Rapid-Fire Bird. There’s a little bit of your Bird coming through here, in that you want a foundation, you don’t want to just do the Snake thing.

Anyway, I was a psychology major (I always liked understanding how people tick and how to get them to see or do what you want them to without having to explicitly argue with them or convince them)

Very Bird.

but I felt alienated with the “bleeding heart helping profession!!” people around me.

I am not at all surprised that the profession skews Badger secondary, and that it did not feel at all good being around all those Badger secondaries... when you’ve got such a messy relationship with your Badger model.

I eventually settled for doing research on children growing up in harsh circumstances who develop externalizing symptoms, but it was just because throughout my life I met a lot of people like that and a lot of my close people are “misunderstood” because they sometimes behave harshly due to their harsh upbringings, so I wanted to vindicate them in a way, as well as vindicate myself because I cared about explaining why people sometimes act less than morally and yet can still be loyal and worthy of love and not automatically “bad people”.

I love this for you. It seems like this would just fit into your primary so nicely. You’ve got a category of people, who are your people and you’re going to vindicate them, and protect them - especially from other people seeking to dehumanize them. It’s so Badger, but in that lovely universal way.

In the meanwhile, I kind of developed a Badger primary model, I guess, in that I do dedicate a lot of my time to helping people

… or you were a Badger all along…

and being kind and open and inviting

yeah, that has absolutely nothing to do with being a Badger primary. I’m serious. That’s just your neutrally-charming mask.

but whenever this is put to the test my Snake loyalties always always come first.

I honestly haven’t seen this so far. The only individuals you’ve talked about are your parents (who bothered you by not being a group, your fuckboy friend (who left the group) and your first boyfriend, who you broke up with.

And I also still always get morally outraged when people are disloyal to their close ones or treat them badly,

This your primary talking. (your why, what gets you out of bed in the morning)

whereas the general kindness and the work I put in towards making sure the world is a kinder, fairer place is just something that I do, no emotional attachment to it, and I don’t expect other people to do it at all.

This is your badger secondary model talking. (how you go about doing things, how you present to the world.) Both Badger, yes. EXTREMELY different.

I honestly don’t think a lot about morality, aside from the generic “be kind and try not to fuck people over unless you really have to”

I mean, you did just say. “I also still always get morally outraged when people are disloyal to their close ones or treat them badly.” I think you just must not consider that sort of thing… really morality, in some way. But Badgers get their morality from their group. Their highest moral good is to make sure the group is doing okay. It doesn’t have to be more complicated than that.

rationally constructing a system of morality or trying to arrive at some kind of internal hunch both feel kind of empty to me?

Because you’re not a Bird or Lion primary? Of course it does.

Now, as for the secondary, my knee jerk reaction is to say Bird because I’m in research, and ever since childhood I’ve always been a very logical person. I’ve eventually learned to be quite systemic in my problem solving process because I need it for research, but what I like about this career is the problem solving aspect of it, like you have a goal (for example, an effective psychosocial information or the acquisition of a certain kind of information) and you have to figure out how to get to that information. Basically the most efficient way of getting from A to B.

I make sure to be systemic and thorough and analytical because it’s the most surefire way to get things right in my line of work, but I also take pleasure in kind of categorizing and putting information in order, and connecting it along different lines. I also really care about proper methodology and not half-assing things to get the results that you want, because I think that the results that you want are the results that are accurate and useful in the real world, not the ones that make you look better.

Wait, am I a double Snake?

Okay, now you’ve got ME worried - I must have really screwed up explaining something, because how can you write something THAT bird secondary, love systems as much as you do… and arrive at the conclusion that you’re a Snake?

What I know for sure is that I absolutely do not identify with “knowledge for knowledge’s sake”, but I do have a really broad criteria for what “useful knowledge” is because I’m capable of thinking quite abstractly, so I can see the utility of almost anything.

That is very, very, very Bird. I’m starting to see the problem though. “Knowledge for knowledge’s sake” is an older phrase that owes more to the parent system than I would like, but it does essentially mean “no knowledge is wasted, the most useful way to solve problems is to preemptively hoard knowledge.”

What I am really also passionate about is presenting things in the right way. I love writing, and I love public speaking, because I get to put myself in the other person’s shoes, imagine how they will “receive” what I’m saying and then tailor my presentation or short story or whatever to lead them to the conclusion that I want them to reach. But I dislike manipulating people with this: the conclusions that I want them to reach are the ones that I personally consider accurate, not the ones that benefit me.

First thing, you sound like an absolutely incredible person, and by pretty much any metric you want to use, a *good* person. (And no, that’s not because the way you’ve written this is manipulating me. This is my little game, I’m good at it.)

What I can tell you that tailoring a presentation to an audience - that’s just a Rapid-Fire Bird who knows their stuff doing trick-shots, and I bet it’s beautiful to see. You are delivering information in a way that the audience can properly take in, because you know both your audience and your information well enough to do that, and that is incredible.

My knee-jerk reaction is always to improvise, but I feel like this makes me come off as a “fake” person if I change my mind on what I said later (I change my mind A LOT), so I try not to say what sounds good in the moment because it will bite me in the ass later and lead to a reputation of a flaky, fake person, I guess?

Not 100% sure what you mean here. Changing your mind… is just a personality trait, it doesn’t really have to do with why you do things or how you do them. I think you would call tailoring your presentations improvisation, and I really wouldn’t. It’s not improvisation, it’s just looks like improvisation because you’ve come up with a hundred different ways to say this thing, and then on the day you can pick the one that works the best. If you had to do the same thing, but not in your preferred subject matter/environment, it would be basically impossible.

But I also really pride myself on my logical and thorough assessments of situations, and I tend to like thinking things through when I get the chance for it, often postponing decisions until I’ve thought about all the eventual longterm consequences of all the courses of action I might take.

Bird.

What trips me up is my trauma-induced fixation with being “honest” and avoiding “lies”, which are more about their eventual inefficacy and worthlessness and less about their moral rightness or wrongness (and also because manipulative=bad, as my Mum spent all of my life saying). My line of thinking is, “Things built on lies or self-delusion always crash down and burn, and it is right that they do so that more stable and honest things can take place”

What are you building on lies? If anyone’s work has a solid foundation, it’s yours. And as we’ve previously discussed, even IF you were doing your mom’s brash Lion secondary thing, wouldn’t that be in a lie in itself, because it’s not your natural presentation, it’s something you need to force yourself to do?

but I also kind of use it to do shady shit - like I don’t feel morally wrong in hitting up a man in a relationship, because if he really cares about his woman the only person who’ll get burned is me and if he doesn’t I saved her the trouble of wasting more of her time on him?

This is actually a really interesting aside, because it’s you telling me how you handle a moral issue (that makes it a Primary thing.)

Is it wrong to hit on a married man? Your answer is No: either you get turned down because he’s staying faithful, and that’s your own personal risk, or he cheats, in which case he’s kind of … dehumanizing himself? And therefore you are doing his partner a favor because she can now get rid of this unhealthy member of her community. There’s a logic there, and it’s a kind of ruthless Badger primary logic.

So not sure if Snake or Badger secondary?

Bird.

P.S. After some self-reflection, I realized that I’m probably not a Bird secondary

I’m listening.

because I really hate following plans and situations where I have to rely on concrete skills and not abstract problem solving terrify me. OTOH I am very proud of my general ability to assess a situation and act appropriately.

Not sure how you’re distinguishing between “concrete skills” and “abstract problem solving.” From what you’ve been telling me, it sounds like you need the concrete skills before you can do the abstract problem solving, as in they work together.

I’m also known as the person who changes PowerPoint slides in the middle of a conference based on whoever’s speaking before her and adapting her speech accordingly, which freaks the shit out of my coworkers, so I guess any “planning” type is probably out for old me

That’s the most Rapid Fire Bird thing I ever heard. You made a plan. The PowerPoint and the speech exist. You’re just adapting them on the fly, based on previously-existing knowledge. I’m starting to think that you’re one of those Bird secondaries who is SUCH a loud Bird secondary, that it can be hard to get your head the idea that your skills are skills, and not sort of neutral abilities that everyone has.

my latent distaste towards being a Snake secondary is my burny oppressive bullshit against anything that’s not “stalwart honesty and consistency” that I’ve been imposing on myself for years.

which I really wish you didn’t feel like you had to.

Because I do love winging it and just saying whatever’s the most situationally appropriate thing regardless of how much it reflects me and I’ve just been treating any kind of play acting like a recovering alcoholic treats drink so I no longer even remember how it feels anymore lol.

I hope you find a way to play with your Actor Bird, at some point. One more little thing before I sign off though - thinking of actions as “situationally appropriate” is a very Actor Bird secondary thing to do. Snakes don’t go that big. Snakes think - what response do I want from this person, in this moment, and how do I get it? They also constantly reset. Snake secondaries have this “seducer” reputation because they generally are better one-on-one, or in small groups. Even Snake secondary actors will talk about the way they perceive the whole audience as one “person” … it’s all very interesting, but a very different way of approaching the world than the way you do.

#submission #shc #sortinghatchats #badger bird #badger primary #burnt badger primary #bird secondary #bird secondary vs snake secondary #actor bird #rapid fire bird #wisteria sorts #sortme

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