#Silco and Jinx were a direct parallel to THAT

[chaoslibra]

I think what makes matters worse in Caitlyn’s case (I loved her in S1), is the fact, that both Silco and Ambessa are presented as villainous by the narrative, at least to some degree. Whether or not you agree with their actions and their motives, the way their actions and the characters themselves are framed, leaves the viewer to make up their own mind. We know and the narrative knows that both Ambessa and Silco are not good people and, while they do what they deem necessary, the narrative shows the (negative) consequences as a direct cause and leaves the viewer to decide whether or not to condemn the characters for them.

Season 2, especially Act 3, does not grant Caitlyn’s arc the same development. We are rushing through her dictator arc in Act 2 showing what she does, but not really what her actions cause. We don’t see what happens to Zaun in the long run, how Caitlyb directly affected their lives by gassing them and inflicting martial law directly onto them. That leads to two conclusions

1. What she did wasn’t that bad and doesn’t affect anybody in a meaningful way.

Imo that would be a complete narrative cop out and just backtrack on everything Season 1 did so beautifully. Also it would trample entirely on the setup of Act 1.

or 2. (which I believe to make more sense) The writers didn’t want their piltie cop main character to be viewed as anything but a good person, so they stripped away all moral complexity and made every significant character and by extension the viewers forgive her the moment her and Vi saw each other again.

The fight Vi and her have basically amounts to nothing, because it presents Caitlyn’s actions that affect an entire group of people as a personal dispute between her and her girlfriend. Not only does it completely oversimplify the conflict, but it also ruins Vi’s character completely by making her not hold Caitlyn accountable at all.

Vi’s forgiveness and Caitlyn letting Jinx go are presented by the narrative as the only actions Caitlyn needs to be forgiven for everything she’s done. Her cruelty toward Zaunites never gets addressed. Compare that to Silco who’s effect on the Undercity was ever-present post Act 1 from the moment we (the viewers) were back in the Undercity. Vi immediately notices what changed for the worse, especially once they get to the Shimmer addicts. Silco’s actions have reason and they affect the narrative in a meaningful way, that affects characters and their decisions. Caitlyn’s do not do anything beside causing some relationship drama, because ofc yelling “I KNOW” at your girlfriend after she barely calls you out absolves you of all responsibility.

I think they tried something really interesting with Cait and her descent into madness and radicalization, but where it falls flat, is that the writers were too cowardly to pull through. It’s quite an interesting parallel (since the writers love them so much) to them also failing to pull through on the Zaun-Piltover conflict, because they were too scared to have to come to terms with their centrist views and how harmful they were to the narrative.

I’ll tell you why I dislike Caitlyn more than Ambessa or Silco, it’s because of the character’s subjective morality. By her own morals, Ambessa is doing what she thinks is right, her Noxian upbringing is a reason about why she feels so strongly about mages (they betray that war makes everyone equal hence they are a threat that must be taken out) and why she thinks softness is nothing but a weakness. Her worldview is shaped by the brutalities of war that she’s constantly exposed to (and engages in) which makes her this incredibly ruthless and cut throat character.

Silco is all about the “base violence necessary for change”, his convictions are shown when he invited Vander to join him DESPITE the brutal attempted drowning because he’s motivated by the “greater good”- for Zaun, he emerged a stronger resilient man after the violence done to him. He’s willing to give up shimmer and himself for the sake of Zaun’s freedom (but not Jinx). What I’m getting at is this: you can’t look at people’s actions in isolation because their environment shapes their morality and decisions, Ambessa because she was born in Noxus, Silco is like this because he was born in Zaun, I’m not justifying them but explaining how distorted their worldview is because of their environment, they don’t exist in a vacuum where they do evil things despite knowing better because it’s shown that they are trying to do good.

Cait is different because she was given everything from breathable air, to a safe place to sleep at night, food and even the ability to choose her own path regardless of her parents disapproval- the kids in Zaun are forced to work and steal to survive. HER PRIVILEGES ARENT HER FAULT AT ALL. In s1 we see that despite having it all, she wants things on her own merit and tries to help despite not needing to. She has an incredibly strong moral centre with deep conviction. Like Vi says “she believes what she’s saying” when she disagrees with Ekko saying that enforcers hunt them like animals and she even backs it up- ex reassessing her opinion of Zaun, willing to give up her rifle within that “dangerous place” to save Vi, embracing a shimmer addict (those branded monsters) simply because he was hurting, using her connections to help Vi etc.  She tells Ekko to give up the gemstone instead of using it to kill Silco because of the cycle of violence, and I believe her since she showed that she isn’t ignoring his pain but giving him better hopes than bloody revenge. 

S2 shows me i was wrong to like the sheltered, sorta prejudiced but kindhearted girl who always strives to be better because her morals are paper thin and just for show. She has direct knowledge of how bad the grey is because Cassandra documents it- shown in the hellfire music video and the fact that Viktor (her brother’s friend) is dying from it even years later. Yet she still uses it on the streets. Gas spreads obviously and chembarons use child labour in their factories (thanks Jayce)- there’s no way to stop third party effects of the grey. Imagine how bad it must be for Zaunites, who breathe in the air that even trees cannot survive in, immediately suffocate and tear up with their eyes turning red?  She controls their right to breathe and she immediately uses it against them, all the while calling them animals knowing the truth. 

She insists that she wouldn’t have missed her shot (ignoring the fact that she DID just miss her shot when she had a clear go at Jinx’s head and went for her middle finger AND that the hextech weapons were glitching out) and used that as justification for being prejudiced against Vi (“I keep telling myself you are different but you are not, it’s her blood in your veins”) and hitting her where she was stabbed- after taking a calming breath, leaving her and not even looking for her afterward. 

And again she ignores the fact that Isha would have been harmed either by being that close to an exploding head (which she knows because she tells Vi to get out the way) or being killed alongside Jinx because their heads were aligned- Vi was not wrong to call her out in the slightest. 

She knows the things she’s been told about Zaun are wrong, that they need healing and understanding rather than condemnation but so quickly switches back- using othering language and prejudice, literally calling them animals and Vi one of the good ones until Vi doesn’t do as she wants then saying that she’s no different. 

btw she has full right to hate jinx, not saying that she needs to be the bigger person (even if she says that to ekko) but there is NO justification for taking that out on Zaun knowing what she knows or Vi for telling the truth.

So yeah both Ambessa and Silco don’t have the luxury of a kind life, they were both shaped by the brutal realities of their environment and that turns them into brutal people. These guys are villains who do awful things, I hold them at different standards because 1) their role in the story and 2) at the very least they are doing what they think is best rather than knowing better and being evil despite it all. Caitlyn knows better, she has seen Zaun firsthand and has the luxury of having a good life and the ability to recognise that privilege and that allows for a stable moral compass and world view. Jinx is not justification for the grey on Zaun’s streets, or hitting Vi for telling the truth- she knows better and doesn’t care. Even then she gives up because she didn’t have the energy to hate herself for doing these things, not because she got her head out of her ass and saw the impact of what she’s doing. It’s to do with her emotions.

.

[haine-kleine]

is it too early to say that the narrative of Jinx being Vander's daughter was an OOC characterisation used to overwrite her being Silco's daughter because they needed to speedrun her redemption without being controversial

[joicecubes]

my take on this scene (arcane s2 act 2 spoilers. obviously)

if you’re active within the arcane fandom space recently i’m sure you’ve at least stumbled across the discourse where someone interpreted this exchange to be vi “realizing jinx is a better older sister” or something. personally i think it’s a lot less about comparison and a lot more about guilt.

vi has felt responsible for jinx her entire life. she was her protector when they were kids. she abandoned her after vander, milo, and claggor’s deaths leading silco to take her in. jinx went on to work for him. she killed caitlyn’s mother in the council meeting explosion. everything jinx has done and every horrible thing she’s experienced has been a direct result (at least in vi’s mind) of her own failures as an older sibling. and despite her guilt, eventually she forced herself to accept that powder didn’t exist anymore. even more painful, that since she’s the one who caused jinx to be this way, she also has to take responsibility and stand by caitlyn’s side in ensuring jinx won’t hurt anyone else.

but she fails. jinx runs free, vi wallows in her breakup sorrows, and the next time they see each other, jinx… has changed. and she has that same kid with her from their fight. and she’s come to vi willingly for her help.

i think vi is thinking a lot of things when she sees jinx comforting isha. surprise, firstly, to see this side of jinx she hasn’t seen since they were kids. the jinx she knows is a shell of her former self, changed beyond belief, and yet vi watches as jinx softens and treats isha with so much care. helps her dust herself off, says something vi might’ve said to powder what feels like a lifetime ago. “still got all your insides?”

the truth of it is, it’s not jinx being a better older sister than vi was. it’s jinx emulating what vi once was to her, and i think vi catches onto that. she’s watching as an outsider now, jinx and isha paralleling what her and powder’s relationship used to be like and i think it would make sense if the strongest thing she’s feeling right now is longing. how devastating it is that their relationship feels so irreparable, how deeply she wishes she hadn’t hurt powder so long ago.

but there’s also hope in her asking “why’d you come get me? you don’t actually need my help.” sure, she’s still bitter. how could she not be, after everything that’s happened between them? but she recognizes that jinx doesn’t need her anymore, it becomes especially clear seeing jinx taking care of someone else like vi used to take care of her. so why seek her out? why drag her all the way out here? there’s a deep, wounded, guilty part of her that’s desperate for reconciliation, so she reaches for it. especially now that she has no one else.

they make me so sad :(

[mintaii]

May I ask for your thoughts on Arcane season 2! Be as honest as you want, I ook a lot of issue w it and would love to see what other people took issue with.

well overall i was kinda disappointed HAHA the animation was so jawdroppingly gorgeous (i am going to absorb that art book into my system when i receive my copy), i just wish the writing this season reflected the visuals it was delivered with.

i'll type out further thoughts under the read more

things i really liked:

episode 7 was so peak. an ekko character episode, the whole AU deal, timebomb, heimer's silly little bard song and jayce being miserable in the canyon with the voidimals

jayvik soulmatism (edit: ok but the reveal that the old wizard who saved jayce was viktor was SO goofy i'm sorry i can't take that part seriously)

there were a few scenes here and there i loved. off the top of my head: the entirety of ep 1's opening sequence (aftermath of the rocket launch, the funeral), mel's talks with 'kino' and the build up to the realization that he's fake, vi + jinx's fight paralleling jayce, ekko and heimerdinger experiencing the hexhorrors

i liked the horror elements, lowkey wish they did more of it

sorry i'm going to rip into it for a bit:

the pacing was not great LOL felt like we had no time to marinate in everything they were throwing at us because we had to move on fast. the reason why i love ep7 so much was bcos it gave us the time to breathe

this was the biggest thing for me: the zaun and piltover conflict not being the central story of this season was a disservice to nearly every characters' arc.

too many music videos lmfao interesting how it's for mostly addressing sociopolitical issues in zaun/piltover

i think it's kinda weird u don't see ekko and jayce for a nearly whole act (considering ekko's role in saving the timeline and what jayce finds out in the hexpocalypse)

vi in particular to me felt so extinguished as a character and it makes me so mad how she feels completely shoved to the side writing wise. even her big solo character moment which was her as a pit fighter was? relegated to a music video?

did not like caitlyn by the end of it all and how they handled her character this season unfortunately made me dislike caitvi's dynamic in the finale (and i was rooting for them!!!) hence why i don't like how vi goes i'm the dirt under your nails to her at the end LMAO

i felt like the reveal that vander and silco were besties with vi + powder's mom cheapened the emotional intensity of vander, vi and powder becoming found family on the bridge and vander's decisions afterwards, as well as silco's own decision to take powder in. i'm sorry but i really don't think silco in s1 knew who tf vi and powder were (other than the awareness they were vander's daughters)

prefacing this by saying viktor is my favorite character (to no one's surprise) but i wasn't a huge fan of the direction they took him this season!! i think he should have been a robot but also he was severely underutilised in their attempt to make him the main antagonist in act 3. imo it thematically makes more sense to have the herald still be a machine. also the lack of agency in his evolution was so weird to me (though i do like the idea of jayce being the one to jumpstart the transformation out of love). i could keep going on about him lmao

[beepfuckingbeeprichie]

Jinx and Caitlyn are officially my favorite parallels this season and I love what the show is doing.

Jinx and Cait simultaneously lost a parent and were then immediately thrusted into a some measure of responsibility— Caitlyn as sheriff, Jinx as a parental figure and almost a partner to Sevika. And despite their upbringings and past history, they pivot to unexpected directions.

Jinx grieves Silco in the River and let’s him go. We’ve only seen Jinx hallucinate once in these three episodes, and it was Silco asking her if she was ready to go. As she exits the river, it intercuts with scenes from last season of her baptism with Silco in the same river. Jinx has finally decided who she is, and without Silco to make her worse (love him, but he did), she almost immediately begins on a path of healing. She rebuilds past relationships by connecting with Sevika, they mutually commiserate Silco’s memory, and then she makes a gift for Sevika as a bid for connection. She even begrudgingly builds a new relationship with Isha, who has basically imprinted on her like a duck.

Cait’s first appearance is being one of the only clear things in the stylized backdrop of her mothers funeral. The scratchy style of some parts are even reminiscent of Jinx’s visual hallucinations. People reach out to Caitlyn, and while she doesn’t necessarily push them away at first, she isn’t communicating effectively. Her and her dad have a brief conversation and she springs the enforcer badge on Vi with no context. By episode three, she’s almost entirely isolated herself from her former support system, told her girlfriend that she’s not “one of the good ones”, and uses the responsibility she’s been given as a weapon.

Caitlyn learns about the air ducts through her mother’s key, which are specifically for directing clean air into Zaun, and immediately weaponizes it. Not sure how long Jinx has known ab them, but she’s actually the one who uses the ducts to direct clean air into Zaun. And she’s the terrorist!!

Caitlyn’s weapons get upgraded to be more brutal, efficient killing machines. We’ve seen Jinx use her gun, obviously, but one of her bombs is simply filled with glitter. Sevika’s arm is decked out to play music, shoot fireworks, even has a punch option, which isn’t very effective if you’re going for the kill. They’re still weapons, but they’re fun, and arguably less dangerous than the hex core and more authentic to Jinx’s personality. Even the paint in clearing out the air ducts is just that- paint. She could have weaponized it, and chose not to.

Even the small things characterize them! Jinx channels her grief into a creative outlet, while Caitlyn searches for catharsis through violence! A good example is when she seeks catharsis by shooting the cardboard figure of jinx at the pop up gun range.

They’re both trying to find final closure through killing someone, they’re being thrust into roles of leadership, they’ve lost a parent, they now both have a complicated relationship with Vi. I’m really excited to see how things develop, as Jinx about to become the symbol of Zaun and Caitlyn has just become a puppet dictator.

[ahli-stuff]

POTENTIAL SPOILERS FOR ARCANE SEASON 2 ACT III:

League released a new Jayce skin called Arcane Survivor; I’m going to be categorizing his voice lines by how insane each batch of them makes me and doing some short thoughts and analysis

There is a LOT of reoccurring motifs over Jayce’s 8 minutes of voice lines. At least 60% of them thematically contrast, parallel, and/or directly reference Viktor, whether it’s referring to humanity, flaws, science work, and/or promises. Especially heavy on the promises.

Directly Referencing Viktor:

Pretty par of the course voice lines!! It’s nice to get a confirmation that Jayce doesn’t necessarily hate Viktor even after what he's seen, and if he does it’s tinged with a significant edge of bitter sweetness. This also confirms Viktor’s complete loss of humanity in the third act; people say that Viktor already lost his humanity the moment he stepped out of the hex core slime but. I’d argue that he simply lost the cruel side of humanity; he still had his conscience, all things considered. His development in the third act will be the loss of that too.

Jayce’s Dream Motif “Our Hextech Dream”:

I don’t actually need to go through and explain every one of these but. I want to, so, touché. Even after all the likely terrible things Jayce experienced, it’s horribly soft that he still remembers that special moment him and Viktor shared more than a decade ago. It’s still important to him.

Jayce and Viktor’s Scientific Zeal:

AGAIN. Ruminating over his work with Viktor.

Jayce’s Flaws/Humanity Motif:

These lines are in direct contrast to Viktor’s eventual ideology—to Viktor, hextech means perfecting existence, to Jayce, it will be making existence flawed. To Viktor, humanity leads to flaws but to Jayce, flaws lead to humanity.

Jayce’s Promises Motif:

Do I even need to explain this one? I think it’s so. Deeply notable that during the greatest thing you could do during a league match (kill the entire other enemy team) and arguably the worst thing you could do (dying), Jayce has the same thing on his mind. That promise. It remains to be seen if he made another important one while in the anomaly, but I heavily predict it’s his promise with viktor.

Conclusion:

There were like six voice lines each which contributes to the motifs I mentioned here that I couldn’t add, but they are all almost as equally meaningful and gut wrenching to Jayce’s character. I heavily recommend you check the skin showcase on YouTube out—I am so much softer on Jayce now because of some of his very sad lines. Not only because he’s being extremely gay for Viktor, but because this is a man standing alone burdened by knowledge, self-hatred, despair, desperation, and also… hope. He’s the protector of tomorrow, but in the most afraid sense of the title. Love this guy.

It’s shocking to me just how many lines they are refer to viktor in some sort of way. They are. They make me ill. Whether it’s romantic, platonic, something more, something in between, it’s heartening to know their relationship has the gut wrenching connection/estrangement that has the weight to stand next to silco-vander and vi-jinx.

[theoddest1]

Okay so, ima type in what I typed to my friend here.

"Yeah Ima be so dead ass. ||Mel and Ekko carried the final for me, ESPECIALLY Ekko."

Yeah, they should have just kept [Viktor] being Ryze. That made more sense to me than whatever this is. And I am all for mlm rep, but yeah, this felt WAY too, Jayvikky. I liked it better that they were brothers to parallel Vander and Silco, who also found each other and became bros, but it seemed like they went with how popular JayVik was and stuck with it. And Jayce being strung with Viktor for wherever they went felt...kinda nonsensical. I'd rather that Viktor was thwarted and too far gone to then just suddenly have a change of heart and go with Jayce. I imagined that he would have a contingency where he, incase his body was destroyed, would then later rise again to try and enact "Glorious Evolution". It would go well with the themes of his beliefs anyway because every time he dies, he comes back stronger in a new body. I feel like that would better set the ongoing conflict and fit well with the game and why he looks the way he does currently.

I also don't like how quick he and Mel's reunion was considering how much he favored her along with his odd and sudden dislike for her decisions-- Seriously, where did that even come from!?"

[Thought it over further. Him calling her out on her actions isn't the issue. It's the timing and how this transpires that confuses me. He just came from a post-apocalyptic world where Mel, Viktor, and everything else came to mind. The lack of time for them to truly talk made the scene felt out of nowhere and not at all fleshed out. He goes on to place part of the blame on her when literally it wasn't. She DID manipulate but only politically. Everything else was on he and Viktor. Then, when he DOES confront Viktor, the vibes are different. Viktor hurt and caused a chain of events that led to several lives being taken to ensure survival and his "Glorious Evolution", why is this essentially overlooked? Maybe when I review this again, it will make more sense, but as of now, the way Jayce treats both Mel and Viktor is VERY questionable.]

"I would have been pretty happy if He at least gave her a hug, a kiss, something to make their relationship seem consistent with what we were shown. I know that he's been gone for a while and a lot more cold, but this was a very odd direction to go with. I am super happy about Cait and Mel fighting side by side and that Mel may be the main character for a new Noxus related show! [Which I knew they'd set up!] but this series, after seeing it in its entirety, DID suffer too much from the pacing issues. I assumed at the First Act that it was quick paced to go with how they've all been shifted into places they didn't see coming, but the pacing issues continued to bring down the quality. 3 seasons would have made way more sense and would go well with the 3 ACT formula they had used. I hope they learn from this and refrain from making similar mistakes.

[I responded to my friend who posted these images above] I knew they'd make a callback to this line eventually, and I am genuinely surprised people are not catching this obvious set up to Jinx living. Also, I am betting that Heimer did "die" but only that alternate version of himself. [Though obviously I could be wrong, though a life of various lifetimes where he helps each version of the main cast sounds very Heimerdinger of him, especially since he didn't wanna leave.]

The biggest letdown for me has to be Jayce and Viktor's story. It just...doesn't make sense with what we have been shown. Also, if Viktor KNOWS bad shit would happen when bringing Hextech to life and all, why TF would he give it to Jayce then???? Or if he STILL wanted magic to be tampered with shy doesn't he comvince himself in a way HE KNOWS would prevent what happens next, surely NOT EVERY timeline has it where you continue on the path of destruction! You see what I mean!?!? Leave the time crap to Ekko, man. This new inclusion makes no sense! And he does this in VARIOUS timeliness for some reason. Man, I wish it was just a random ass mage or Ryze, this added stuff kinda kills the finale for me🫠

I feel that making Viktor time travel ruins a huge aspect of the story, ngl, especially when Jayce argues that people can "craft their own path." The story also shouldn't have ended with what I could only assume both of them "dying" or traversing time instead. Also, the way Sky was treated and essentially replaced with Jayce feels....very very weeeeird."

[I believe that the ending just didn't land that well. I feel, now thinking over every character, Ekko, Mel, and Jinx carried this season HEAVY. These 3 were the most interesting parts of the season, honorable mention being Singed cause he be doing what he MUST. Also, what was the point of introducing Loris if all he was gonna end up being was a random guy who reminded Vi of Vander? I guess nothing is wrong with this, but when you're already stringing for time, these inclusions make no sense... I liked him, though, RIP Loris🤧. Oh, and Caut barely facing consequences is KINDA CRAZY but it goes with the themes of forgiveness/ acceptance. The Cycle would never end, after all, but yeah Vi and Cait made up WAY too fast and just shows that this needed another season. Let me know your thoughts!]

[inkblotsonmyhands]

----------------SPOILERS FOR ARCANE SEASON 2 ACT I BELOW----------------

Alright then, hopefully no one who hasn't watched Arcane S2 Act I yet is reading this. I don't know if this has already been said or not but I was (like so many others) blown away by Act I last Saturday and literally cannot wait for the next two. Full disclosure in case I get any facts wrong (feel free to correct me!!), I have never played League of Legends in my life and know no lore whatsoever outside the show.

I'm fascinated by Isha and Jinx's currently nonexistent but gradually growing relationship. First of all, if I remember correctly, we know that this child's name is Isha only because of a subtitle—she never introduces herself, and no one ever calls her by name. Jinx only acknowledges her grudgingly, and until the very last scene of Episode 3, Sevika acts like she isn't even there.

I think there's parallels to be drawn between Powder and Isha, starting with what I mentioned—both of them are often ignored by the people around them. Of course, Powder was loved by her sister and adoptive siblings and father, most of them just rarely got the chance to really show it. I don't think Sevika or Jinx particularly care about Isha at all as of now, but we don't know much about her past. There's got to be some reason why Chross's men were chasing her, and there's got to be a reason why she apparently has nowhere to go. I would guess she's associated with either Chross, another chembaron, or perhaps a figure like Vander—relevant to the Lanes, but not a chembaron. I would also guess that, like Powder, whatever familial figure she has/had is either dead or has abandoned her.

She's small (although we do not know exactly how old she's supposed to be), does not appear to have much fighting ability, was scared the first time she saw Jinx kill people, and, despite it all, seems to be unnaturally resilient. From the little I've seen, she seems to be good at hiding and sneaking around. These are more traits that seem similar to Powder's. I'd like to add that her flinching when Jinx fired at Chross's men does not necessarily mean she's never seen violence before, but that she's probably never been in the direct line of it. I also think she has some emotional attachment to her hat. That could just be because it's useful, though.

The larger case I want to bring to light, however, is not her resemblance to Powder—but how she differs. There's two scenes where I think this really stands out.

The first is the Jinx and Sevika vs Smeech fight. The setting of the fight bears some similarity to the fight Vi, Claggor, and Mylo get into against some thugs at the beginning of Season 1. Obviously, Jinx and Sevika are much more experienced than the kids were at the time of their fight, but they're also fighting against equally powered opponents. Regardless, the two fights bear a resemblance in where they take place—the streets. Powder is present in one fight mostly because she goes where Vi goes; Isha is at the other because she was following Jinx. Powder, in an act of self-defense, tries to use the bomb she made, which backfires and results in her losing the loot and, in a way, nullifying the others' victory. Isha, in an attempt to help Jinx, throws the bomb that Jinx made—successfully distracting the thug, and allowing Jinx an easy kill.

The second instance is the Jinx and Sevika vs Vi and Caitlyn fight. There's no obvious similarity here, but I think, especially from Isha/Powder's perspective, this is a very similar situation to the fight Vi and everyone gets into against Silco's gang in the warehouse at the end of S1 Act I. Assuming Isha has very little context (just like Powder did, at the time), to her, it's a very big, very scary fight of the people who are "with" her—the good guys—vs the people attacking them—the bad guys. Powder, in an act of bravery, tries to intervene with a device she knows nothing about other than the fact that it explodes—and it does explode, and ultimately kills most of the people she was trying to save. Isha, in an act of bravery, tries to intervene with a gun, something she has presumably never held before, to save Jinx's life—and she succeeds. Another interesting detail is that in Powder's case, Silco's gang, armed with Shimmer, was blatantly and dangerously overpowered—Powder brought in the Hextech, which in theory, evened the odds, or even tipped them in their favor—but still cost them the fight. The fight Isha was witnessing was fairly evenly matched—Vi and Caitlyn had more Hextech weapons, but Jinx did have one Hextech weapon, and she and Sevika had the advantage of it being on their turf. Isha intervened with a simple gun, arguably the weakest weapon on the scene, but still succeeded. Lastly, Powder's intervention was from a distance, while Isha threw herself into the action. It should go without saying that I'm not trying to put Powder and Isha against each other at all—I'm just observing the situations they got put into.

To address the elephant in the room—I am aware that Powder and Jinx are the same person, but I'm drawing a distinction here because I'm examining the similarities between Powder (young Jinx, if you will) and Isha, wondering how Jinx would perceive them (if she perceives them at all), and how that would impact her relationship with her. I have no predictions as to what that may be, but I do expect Jinx and Isha's relationship to be an interesting one, and potentially, Isha may even play an important role in changing Jinx.

One last thing, although this is unrelated to the parallels—I mentioned earlier that Sevika acts like Isha doesn't exist until the very end of Episode 3. When Isha throws herself on Jinx, Caitlyn continues attempting to fire, and Vi attempts to stop her, I believe Sevika triggers the blast, ending that altercation, largely to save Isha. When she realizes that Caitlyn won't back away, she does the best thing she can to put a stop to the situation right there.

I could draw this even further into a Vander-Vi-Powder hold parallels to Sevika-Jinx-Isha theory, but that may be a stretch, even for me.

[silcoswife1]

Why I don’t like the Silco x Vander and Chishiya x Niragi ships (even though no one asked, I’m gonna yap about it)

Silco x Vander ship:

They are shown to be direct parallels to Vi and Jinx and although I've heard arguments that that's just to mirror their live path I think there's more to it, in season 1 their fights mirror one another showing how similar their relationship dynamics are (siblings, even though Silco and Vander are not blood related, I am aware). And if you're going to comment about them being similar to Viktor and Jayce I disagree, they're closer direct parallels to Vi and Jinx, and even going with that comparison, Jayce only says Viktor was like a brother ONCE, reflecting a temporarily one sided relationship dynamic in my opinion.

"You were my brother" -Vander to Silco

"He was like a brother to you"- Jinx to Silco

The common argument for this ship is theyre meant to be interpreted as "brothers in arms" not actual brothers but I disagree, I understand that can be a common phrase in queer media but since in the Arcane world homophobia doesn't seem to be at all prevalent, I see there's no reason to just not call each other old friends or ex's if thats what the case was, but they used "brother" to refer to each other many times which I think is purposeful by the makers of the show.

In the official art book as well it claims the two men had a “brotherly connection” and “loved each other as brothers”, but I believe the art book should come secondary to the actual media which is why I focus the most on what’s shown.

Chishiya x Niragi:

This one’s gonna be rather short and sweet, I don’t think it’s morally okay to ship a canon rapist with any character, it’s okay if you like Niragi as a well written villain but to erase his wrongs or wish them upon another character in a relationship (which is basically what you’re doing if you ship an abuser with another character) is wrong even though I’m aware it is a fictional piece of media.

—————————————————————

In conclusion, ship what you want, but here were my reasons for disliking the ships personally and to explain why the shippers are on my DNI list, I feel that the ships you feel strongly about say a lot about you as a person, and I personally have found I don’t like the kind of people who love either of these ships while being very aware of their negative sides.

[arttsuka]

Usually, people tend to see the parallels between Jinx&Viktor and Vi&Jayce, nerds vs jocks in a way, I guess. There are more, sure, but I'm here to talk about Jinx&Jayce and Vi&Viktor instead.

(A little disclaimer, I haven't watched Arcane in 2 years more or less so sorry for any inaccuracies)

First things first, the obvious thing, their names.

J for Jinx and Jayce, Vi for Vi and Viktor.

For their appearance (at least in arcane), Jinx and Jayce have a more blue wardrobe and colors. Vi and Viktor have more red/pink instead.

All of them are stubborn but I think Jinx and Jayce are/were more optimistic than Vi and Victor who are more 'realists' (but can and will get stuck to certain ideas/beliefs and will sacrifice stuff to achieve their goals).

Jinx, due to her being younger and Jayce due to him being more 'sheltered' are more childish, easier to manipulate and rile up.

Jinx, mainly because of Silco and his influence in her life, didn't grow up (Powder to Jinx) 'in the undercity'. Sure, they were there, but it wasn't exactly like she was living on the streets with the other citizens, like Vi who we know had a social life (until she got thrown to prison for the ??? time). Viktor also was a direct 'product' of the undercuty. Jayce wasn't.

Jinx and Jayce both have memories from their childhoods that they keep 'close', thinking about them and it let them to change their whole personality, to shape it into something different. The bomb incident was the start of the Jinx persona, the Mage that saved Jayce and his mom were the reason he started to study and why he wanted to learn more about magic in the first place. Vi and Viktor are less likely to accept change, especially in people. Vi refuses to believe Jinx is no longer Powder, Viktor doesn't want to believe Jayce will put other things (fame, his reputation, other people) before him and their research.

Finally, Jinx and Jayce mainly use weapons (and while Jayce wields a hammer, it's still not exactly hand to hand combat). Vi and Viktor both have body 'modification' parts (her gloves and his cane + leg 'prosthetic').

So, to badly summarize:

J

Blue

Childish and optimistic

Weapons rather than body parts or armor

'Traumatic' thing that happened in the past changed them

'Not from the undercity' mentality

Vi

Red/pink

Realist but stubborn

Body parts that act either as weapons or armor (at least eventually)

Don't want to believe people change

Product of the undercity

I'm not very good at articulating my thoughts in a coherent way, I hope all that makes sense

[arcaneweaving]

oooo same question but for Caitvi!

ok hear me out: Anne Carson’s Grief Lessons. Each Arcane act mirrors one of these plays, imo. But I especially love “Herakles” for Caitlyn and Vi.

I see a lot of Euripidean Herakles in Vi. For example, in her relationship to her own strength. I saw one creator mention that Vi pushes what she loves away from her in an attempt to protect it; a direct parallel to Jinx/Powder’s “everyone who gets close to me dies.” Vi is at her most effective as a hero when she places herself in between what she loves and the looming threat. As she says herself, “No monsters are gonna get you while I’m here. Then a real monster showed up. And I just ran away.” Although this quote could be interpreted to mean Silco, I actually think that the “real monster” Vi refers to here is herself, acting in grief and guilt (the only time in this scene where Vi voluntarily leaves Powder is after she hit her). To Vi, proximity is equivalent to danger:

Container of uncontainable physical strength, [s]he civilizes the world by vanquishing its monsters then returns home to annihilate [her] own wife and children.

Then she becomes an Enforcer (an agent of state terrorism). Vi’s grief and guilt inhabit her and she is driven, much like Herakles by Madness, to destroy her home. As Powder says, “Vi was strong because she was afraid. Her fear of losing us is what made her fight so hard.” She fights so hard that she becomes the wicked thing— and each misstep consumes her so that she cannot recall the good in herself (Herakles says after Madness leaves him with the corpses of his family, “All my labours were less than this”). Grief begets grief, and guilt begets guilt. Similarly, Vi laments: “I choose wrong every time. And because of it, I’ve lost everyone.”

By contrast, Caitlyn pulls close what she loves to protect it. For Caitlyn, distance is a prerequisite for every loss she has endured (as she says to Vi, “Every way I slice it, if I go after your sister alone… one of us comes back in a box”). Caitlyn reaches to Vi in efforts to keep her as close as possible— in her home in Piltover (as Theseus says, “Leave Thebes then, follow me to Athens. There I shall purify your hands of blood and give you a home and share of my wealth”), on her task force as an Enforcer (“The whole city of Athens will exalt you in monuments and sacrifice. We win a fair crown of glory…”). She clings to Vi even as Vi pushes her away, like Theseus does to Herakles here:

Oil and water, flesh and blood. Their love is a shared grief.

[specialagentartemis]

This is slightly embarrassing for me to admit. but. I am actually really into Jayce/Viktor. how could this happen to me. (the character writing is really compelling, that's why.)

I loooove when characters love each other but are on incompatible sides of an ideological divide now. Like. I am convinced that Vi and Jinx are gonna manage to work through this and come to an understanding with each other again. Their sister relationship is the heart and soul of the series and I think it would be too gutting and unsatisfying if it ended with Violet having to abandon Jinx again, or with Jinx never pulled out of the pit she's in. They're direct parallels to what happened between Vander and Silco, and that ended up destroying them both; it would be a tragedy of inevitability if Vi and Jinx went down the same route, proving everyone right. I doubt they will. I Believe In Them.

However I am not convinced that Jayce and Viktor are going to manage to overcome their growing Conflict and I am so hype for their divorce arc. I love the betrayal that comes from characters going, I love you, I do, but I have to do this/I can't let you do this. Like yeah you two love each other So Much. Jayce burned the bridge with his professor to save Viktor, Viktor was relying on Jayce as the only person who would support him here, they were working toward the same dream to change the world for the better for ten years, they've saved each others' research and saved each others' lives. you're the most important people to each other and your ideologies are slowly becoming incompatible and love isn't enough and you are going to hurt each other So Much and I am here for it

[anamateurhumanbeing]

Finished Act 1 of Arcane's second season. It was alright. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but It definitely felt weaker than any of season 1's acts. But it was still overall good, and there's definitely a lot of interesting setup that has me excited for the rest of the season.

Spoiler-filled ramble below.

Caitlyn is becoming a full on villain. Using the vent systems designed by her mother to help the people of Zaun, as a weapon against them in order to avenge her, cold. And then there's the scene where she attempts to shoot Jinx despite Vi and Isha being in the way. Sure she wasn't trying to hurt either of them, but the fact is she still took that risk. And of course the ending, with her becoming the general under Ambessa's thumb. I love all of it. I thought Caitlyn was a pretty good character in Season 1, but her villain arc is far more interesting than anything she did last season, and the best part of this one. I hope she gets worse.

Ambessa's a pretty good character too. I called her staging the attack on the memorial, and I do love how ruthless she is but I am glad there is some nuance to her, as she clearly does miss her son and care for Mel. I can't wait to see more of her with Caitlyn.

What they're doing with Jinx is interesting. I like that she and Sevika have become allies, finding common ground after Silco's death. Her becoming a more heroic figure to the people of Zaun is a pretty interesting direction to take her after last season was more about her becoming a villain, especially as a parallel to Caitlyn becoming darker in her pursuit of Jinx. I need to see them have a 1 v 1 fight. I must confess though, I do not care much for the kid, and I think her jumping inbetween Vi and Jinx during their otherwise really great fight did not feel earned because of how little Jinx and Isha actually bonded. I am looking forward to seeing more though, and I hope Jinx is simultaneously a better and worse role-model than Silco. Oh yeah, the Silco water scene was beautiful.

All the stuff about Jayce, Ekko, Heimerdinger, Mel, and Viktor was all neat, but all of that was more setup, so I don't have many strong feelings on any of them. Nothing bad, but nothing great so far either. It was fun seeing Jayce and Ekko interact though.

And then there's Vi. This is where the act lost me. Going in I was already wondering how they were going to make Vi becoming an enforcer feel natural. The answer? They didn't! Vi changing her mind and becoming an enforcer felt like it happened way to soon. But I would have been fine with it if it was just Vi becoming an enforcer, it's her going along with Caitlyn's plan to literally gas the lanes that I cannot buy. I said I like Caitlyn going down that path, but Vi following her down it really doesn't make sense. Perhaps it would have made more sense if we actually saw how Vi felt about becoming an enforcer and attacking her home, but despite showing Vi's turmoil before becoming an enforcer, they forget to show her turmoil after becoming an enforcer.

I thought her relationship with Jinx was good. I was a little iffy on how easily she was ready to say she had no sister at first, but as the act progressed, it felt more like she was trying to convince herself more than she was trying to convince Jinx or Caitlyn. Speaking of Vi and Caitlyn, will I get crucified if I say I don't like how CaitVi was handled? And I thought Vi becoming an enforcer was rushed, it felt like they just brushed by an entire seasons worth of development and drama with their relationship. I didn't really care about them falling out, because they literally became a couple at the start of the same episode. It is a real shame, because Vi was one of my favourite characters last season. While I certainly think they can still get Vi's character back on track, I am not sure how they'll make Caitlyn and Vi get back together, or if I even still want that.

Aside from maybe a few clumsy lines of dialogue, Vi really was the only weak link in the act, everything else was great. The music, the animation, the art, the fights, all just as good as Season 1, cannot wait for next week to get more.

[bathtubbbbbbbbb]

I’m really hoping that Heimerdinger gets killed off at the end of season 2 in a sort of redemptive moment much like Silco at the end of season 1, so it draws that narrative parallel between Silco & Heimerdinger, so the message thats communicated is Heimerdinger is just as guilty as Silco & therefore needs to be redeemed/ punished like him. I have no clue how actually likely this is to happen, but I think it would be very appropriate as Heimerdinger is the father of Piltover, Piltover & Zaun are sister cities, & there’s an established pattern of daughters killing their dads.

As for the guilt of the councillor’s in the oppression of Zaun, tbh I thought that show pretty explicitly communicated they were the ones that were ultimately guilty — like they’re the last people to be punished, by ignoring the undercity for so long they “Jinxed” themselves, & most of them are framed as incompetent & unlikable — even Cassandra, like she seems more preoccupied with maintaining her families reputation as aristocracy than anything. The only people imo that are framed as competent in any way are councillor Shoola & to a lesser extent Mel (as she is easily corrupted by the interests of her mother & the pressure she feels to live of the her family name) — which I think is very interesting in terms of the implications & how they relate to real world politics & social justice.

The council are also the last people to be punished by the narrative, & some of the only people that Jinx ever directly & deliberately aims at, most of Jinx’s victims are either blown up or shoot with her mini gun, I think the only other people that she directly shoots are Marcus & the Firelight girl she thought was Vi.

As for Vi’s feelings about Caitlyns mom being councillor & how she doesn’t seem to blame her at all — this is literally established in the first scene on the bridge, little Vi is disgusted & angered by the violent scene on the bridge & the enforcers that occupy it, but when she looks up & sees Piltover, her expression changes to almost longing. I don’t think Vi is as politically involved or inclined as people think, she is motivated by her personal relationships, by direct interactions she has, she holds grudges against people not institutions or groups, the enforcers to her are faceless or all have 1 face so she groups them together as one entity & holds a grudge against that 1 entity — atleast thats my interpretation of her.

As for Ekko just being chummy & shit with Heim, idk man, I really dislike how they did that tbh — but if I’m giving the writers the benefit of the doubt I think that it’s supposed to be some sorta flaw in Ekko’s character as Ekko doesn’t really have all that many flaws. He overlooks Heimerdinger being the head of the oppressive government because Heim is first, a fellow scientist & second, is initially very friendly & helpful to Ekko, it still sounds ridiculous but whatever — I was also thinking that if they do end up killing Heim & making his death parallel Silco’s maybe they’re trying to flip Ekko & Jinx’s dynamic in season 2, Ekko & Heims relationship mirroring Silco & Jinx’s.

I know Heimerdinger's Christian Linke's favorite character, and I sort of tolerated it in s1, but now it feels like things are a little too indulgent. Heimerdinger gets to team up with Ekko to launder his reputation through Ekko and the Firelights. Heimerdinger gets the first narrative game and second character teaser in the promotional cycl. Heimerdinger gets to SING A SONG that's included on the s2 Arcane soundtrack (Spin the Wheel).

Maybe I'd be less annoyed if the show at least did more to acknowledge Heimerdinger's failings as a leader, but his character description can't even do that. This is how the official Arcane website describes Heimerdinger:

"Heimerdinger warned the Piltover Council about the dangers of using magic without tangible solutions for safeguarding its use. Learning from his mistakes with Jayce, Heimerdinger inspires Ekko to keep looking for a solution and works with him to solve the problem, instead of just offering advice."

That's not Heimerdinger's main problem! The problem is the fact he's the person most singularly responsible for the state of Zaun and Piltover. It feels like the show and the cast are just dancing around the fact that Heimerdinger technically has the highest body count in the show (Day of Ash, pollution, extreme poverty, etc). The one time someone puts him to task (Jayce), the show makes it seem like Jayce is wrong or overstepped, and yeah he did do it for Viktor's sake, but Jayce was right! Heimerdinger's bad at his job, he shouldn't be in a leadership position if he's a bad leader.

[tbiatc]

Did not want to derail this post by @xiaofiaan but it make me think so I'm making this one.

The way I read the show, saying "shimmer bad" is missing the point entirely. The addictiveness of shimmer is being weaponized against the lower class, but that doesn't mean shimmer itself is inherently evil. Why do you think we're shown so often how well it could be used? The problem is that the people who own it don't give a shit.

To me, the parallels are obvious: Zaun has shimmer, Piltover has hextech.

The Shimmer is weaponized from the start. Silco uses it on Deckard as a LITERAL weapon. And then, of course, pouring it into Zaun to create addiction and dependence on Silco and the people by his side.

Hextech is directed towards helping people (kinda, since obviously no one cares about distributing it to Zaun). They make gates. Fun stuff.

But the more we go on the more we're shown how much good shimmer could do, were it in the hands of someone who cared. Silco uses it on his eye. Vi gets healed with literally one drop. Singed saves Jinx's life.

And Hextech IS dangerous. There's a Lazer arm. Vi takes the gauntlets to punch. Jayce has a gun. Do you see what I'm getting at here?

Shimmer and Hextech aren't people, they're tools. What matters is how they're being used.

Which. Brings me back to Viktor. Not only is trashing him for trying to get better fucking yuckers, it's also kinda. Like. An odd interpretation of what shimmer is supposed to be? Shimmer isn't EVIL, is part of the point. And there might be versions of analysis and lore that establish it to be some kind of incarnation of darkness, and that's valid, but also. What kills Sky isn't even the shimmer, it's the hexcore. Shimmer is used on the dark side but it's science, and like 1/3 of the premise is how science can always be misused.

[joons]

mooncactus I felt the same way (especially for LOL of all things.... ugh) but my favorite piece of information is the fans figured out vi and jinx were sisters like, 8+ years ago, but riot for some reason absolutely refused to confirm it (even tho they had already planned out this story/show!!) a dev called them sisters and they made him RETRACT THE STATEMENT, a few months before the show aired the official LOL Twitter wished them a happy siblings day and then DELETED THE TWEET LOL. I guess in their minds it was going to be a big huge reveal but it’s so funny that a lot the internal team were just assuming it’s common knowledge!

That is so funny. My brother and I were looking at their bios on the game site, and I saw Jinx wasn't mentioned at all in Vi's bio, and I was like "Wait, are they even sisters in this?" lol.

But without knowing their plans for the show, I think they could easily make it a "this is all prequel to the game's status quo" OR give us a more grounded take on the league of legends format and move beyond the battle royale to a proper conclusion. The game would then just be "this is what's going on in the middle of Arcane." I do wish every property I loved had a million bucks from fighting games to spend on amazing stories like this.

mooncactus “ITS GIVING VALDUG”!!! I agree with this and while I like them just as they are in the show/haven’t been able to get my head around the sexy takes of them LOL I do enjoy seeing the different art and interpretations! but god you right with valdug, seeing this ship get popular gave me faith that even with this puritanical fandom world we live in valdug has a chance of being beloved if/when it’s adapted lmao I also LOVE EKKO/JINX, that hits so many of my buttons!

I did not know Ekko/Jinx was a ship until I finished the show and got online. But I see it a lot in the Enemy MV, which I watched, and their amazing fight scene on the bridge. They also have a ton of parallels with being mechanical geniuses and going in opposite directions after trauma. And they're the same age, lol! They're both adorable and there's plenty of angst and drama there as well. I love so much that they equal Piltover's greatest minds just by sheer stubbornness and need.

But yeah, Valdug in the sense that he watched her grow up, so it makes sense that that might be a line they never cross or consider crossing, but everything else is telegraphing SOULMATES FATED TO WIELD THE SAME POWERS BOTH AGAINST AND FOR EACH OTHER, so you can kind of pick anywhere on the scale where you're comfortable, or skip ahead a few years into an au and see what happens. How they're depicted in the show is perfect, though, because it brings up so many themes about legacies and how silco thinks he's doing the right thing and helping her GROW, as a parent should, when actually they are both stagnant and nursing the wrong wounds. he can't show her how to heal from trauma because he never has and identifies it as his source of strength. he's just like "if you have intrusive thoughts, just kill something and it kills the bad thoughts metaphorically lol." ALSO valduggery has the same "you've never done anything wrong ever" and they've killed thousands. they just dgaf about anyone else's labels but their own. :) :) :)