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dykedvonte · 2 months ago

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You ever just see a Mouthwashing take that makes you want to bang your head into a wall? I literally just saw someone claim Curly couldn't have been emotionally abused by Jimmy before the crash because he was in a higher position of power than Jimmy.

-Shrimp Anon

The mouthwashing fandom has shown me that people genuinely do believe that certain types of abuse are not as detrimental as other types especially when they deem those immune/resistant, ergo, believing one is objectively worse no matter how it affects the person nor the intersections of power, history and dynamics at play.

Get ready cause this is a yap session:

Cause like it's heavily implied that Curly and Jimmy's friendship was toxic and abusive, pointedly in the direction of how Jimmy uses Curly's belief/comfort in him. Curly wasn't forced to enable Jimmy but he was emotional and mentally on edge around him in almost every scene in some way. Mental and emotional abuse are not contingent on what positions you have at work. Yeah, he's Jimmy's boss but he was Jimmy's friend first and it's like getting into Psych discussion to talk about how social power tends to overshadow any perceived organizational power in the human mind. People are concerned about their jobs ofc but they tend to hang onto and put more value/investment into their personal relationships, hence why there tends to be laws and restrictions around mixing the two.

I always see the sentiments that "Curly is a grown ass man", "Curly is bigger than Jimmy", "Curly is Jimmy's boss", "He just needed a backbone" as criticisms of Curly and while I do agree that on the surface level all of these to be true and viable ways Curly could've taken more control of the situation, I often look at the parallels of Anya and Curly as victims of Jimmy pre/post crash.

The way Jimmy talks to Anya post crash is how he talked to Curly in the pre-crash segments. It's hard to pin-point mainly because we know he hates and wants nothing to do with Anya compared to his contrary but similarly handled obsessions with Curly. It's a weird sort of "honey-moon" effect of abuse Jimmy does in terms of emotional and mental victimization. He is always horrid to Anya, always talking down or questioning her abilities and thoughts in a situation, this of course includes the harassment and assault. However, he has a moment of attempted gentleness/conditioning when he question her about the mouthwash when she's contemplating drinking it at the table. The key difference is he has no personal investment in Jimmy outside wanting nothing to do with him, meaning there is no sort of romanticized version of him that he can condition her off of. He knows this, hence, why he always reverts to trying to make her to scared to oppose him.

This sort of give and take of "kindness" doesn't work on her because she knows he is just doing it to take more from her than whatever he could possibly give but it reflects even the "softer" scenes between him and Curly where he always rewords or rephrases Curly's sentiments and concerns to sound more shallow. He is feigning a deeper understanding by reworking Curly's emotions into something bad and needing to be hidden. Everything is laced with envy and resentment, an outburst just around the corner, I mean he even slams the table in the birthday party scene, a tactic in emotional manipulation to set the victim on edge and cloud their ability to respond. Even if Curly knows Jimmy won't get physical in that moment, the physical actions is intended to make him back down in the confrontation in case it does. This is something that is just not person specific. It ingrains itself into how you interact with the world and life and it shows in major and minor ways with Curly.

Post-crash, the abusive nature is more in tandem to the physical victimization Anya went through and the stripping of voice and autonomy we see take place. Like the parasite in HFIM, Jimmy speaks for Curly most of the time and puts words in his mouth, similarly to how he takes Anya's plans as his own. He very commonly, with the both of them mind you, supplements the worst aspects of himself into them; pettiness, selfishness, lack of understanding... And tries to cover himself with their best qualities; kindness, planning, initiative, etc...

These parallel are just to say that positional power has little to do with if a person can be abused and how it can even be flipped to further the abuse. There is no doubt that Curly could've picked up on Jimmy's envy of his position hence another reason he never confronted him as a Captain but as a friend as doing so would immediately put Jimmy in a space to be confrontational/combative.

I think the disdain some people have when they talk about the heavily implied if not implicitly stated emotional/mental abuse Curly experienced being Jimmy's friend is when treating it as an excuse to why he didn't do more. I can understand that completely because it is not an excuse to why he didn't do more but is a very real reason people in his position in these scenarios can experience whether in the context of a work or social environment. However, I also think the way people talk about it really does demonstrate a bigger problem when talking about abuse when somehow who is/was abused is either part of the issue or enabled it.

Harkening back to the sentiments about Curly's inaction regarding Jimmy, I think the exact phrases I used/have seen show how there is an inherent belief that it is easier to overpower the effects of emotional/mental abuse that go in tandem with the perception of Curly as someone who should be able to. There is not an age you suddenly stop being susceptible to abuse nor a set point or low where you realize how it has affected you. You don't suddenly know to stand up or put a face on to face your abuser nor admit that you inadvertently enabled them to subjugate someone else to the same treatment. Maybe it's my psych brain but their is this growing belief that direct action is somehow easy or always the best method with the game shows you instances where it is not always the case. In real life that rings true too. He should have done more, but it's not impossible to see why he struggled to find a way or didn't even if it makes us mad.

It's not easy to suddenly gain a "back-bone". You don't immediately want to resort to aggression, especially if it mirrors the type you were a victim to. You don't want to believe you allowed yourself to be treated this bad, let it get that bad or allowed something bad to happen to someone else. It is easy to be in denial, to retreat to your thoughts or make excuses to avoid the painful truth. It's frustrating but in a way we know is relatable. It why we both hate and love Curly for it. We know we'd be better, we think we'd be better, we like to think we wouldn't falter in the same ways but it's always easier to say that from the outside looking in. It's easy to see what he was doing wrong because we are seeing it, not him, but the game really does make you picture what you would do if this was your raw reality and it's why this debate about Curly seems so never ending/contradictory. We can all say what we'd do but bottom line is that's much different when you're in the moment with all the emotions and human feelings attached.

I personally think Mouthwashing tackles the themes of rape culture, enabling, toxic masculinity, types of abuse and patriarchy in ways that are meant to deconstruct the typical straightforward views we mostly have of these concepts and how little subtilities of them are just as, if not more, detrimental than the overt/obvious parts. The game deals with the idea of little details and bigger picture in a way to show that sometimes the bigger picture is not the issue but the little details that make it up. It's why I have a personal dislike of depictions of Jimmy as the typical horrible person who would of course do something like this because the game is about noticing the little warning signs, the foreshadowing and foresight.

It's why I dislike the typical discussion of "bro code" and "boys will be boys" for the game because the game makes a point to avoid the standard depictions of such. It is about the type of men who still enable despite not condoning, agreeing or even perpetuating harmful beliefs because they can't see the little details or the ways it seeps into their everyday. The severity is not obvious to them as it was not obvious to Curly, Swansea or even Daisuke the way it was to a woman like Anya. There are little details about Jimmy that should ring alarms but if you are too naive like Daisuke, too distant like Swansea or too conditioned like Curly, they are just off markers.

There is 100% more constructive/concise ways to say "Curly was a victim of Jimmy's abuse on an emotional and mental aspect that clouded his judgements and perceptions in the scenario" while also critiquing on the side of "Curly still had a responsibility to protect Anya as a crew mate and Captain that he failed to do due to biases and stigma's he failed to surpass" without the weird condemnation people give him about should've knowing better than to let himself be manipulated by a person he considered a close, if not family/best-friend and had his own reasons to trust initially. Also stop being weird about victims of abuse in general with this fandom, like sorry not everyone has a like social epiphany the moment someone's nasty to them. People are treating it like you immediately know when you are in a toxic relationship immediately or comprehend when a person is actively dangerous and either it's your fault for not knowing how to leave/cut them off or you deserve it. Like the hypocrisy of people believing how certain fans treat the story reflect their irl views but not their own is crazy.

End statement is: I honestly don't even know man, I've been writing this too long and just like no man on that ship was perfect or really helped Anya when it mattered and I feel like pitting them against each other in discussion on who did the least or most or how it was justified sucks cause in the end Anya always did the most and best thing for herself.

#i also think it is because mouthwashing is first and foremost a game about rape culture and the patriarchy especially in work spaces #regarding women and centering conversation around Curly a man rubs people wrong because it does overshadow that commentary #but it still mixes other topics into its initial theming and message on how abuse conditions you to accept certain things that are harmful #and how getting used to a culture/enviornment does not mean you are happy healthy or most importantly safe in it. I personally like to #explore those aspects where it mixes all the themes so we can discuss the ways you have to watch out for things because there is a differen #in the idea Curly enabled Jimmy just because they were bros and because he was an example of another man afraid to step out from what #is a still oppressive system that does try to punish those who act against it even if they fall in the category of those who would benefit #from it as Jimmy and PE 100% represent that sort of misogynistic system where men that would be “good” are altered until they follow line #in a way both on the personal and professional level as PE is the corporate lock out and Jimmy represents the social and its just the issue #that the discussion of it sounds like “in defense of men” when I am more so trying to discuss how it is much deeper than men being scared t #upset other men but complacency is rewarded by not becoming another person subjugated hence as all the moments Curly does try to do #something we can tie it back to how Jimmy reacts and a possible penality from PE where we now need to address the ways to combat those #two concepts so we dont get cases like Curly or Daisuke or Swansea where male avoidance of the issue is considered neutral or even good.#i think most of this boils down the perfect victim mentality to where if someone who underwent or is being abused is not a perfect example #or accpetible type than their abuse can not be considered a valid or substantial reason for effects on their behavior compounded with the #fact that Anya's abuse at the hands of Jimmy is a systematic issue that Curly is a part of even if unwillingly and was more physically #violating and topical cause sometimes i have to remind myself that all media is still critiqued through the lens of the culture it came out #in cause i do think about what if this game came out inlike 2014 like the conversations would be sooooooo different could you imagine it?#but back the before statement Curly isn't perfect but I feel like boiling it down if hes a good person or man is not the point of the game #but more so good people can still be part of the problem and the idea of condemning a person for one act creates a false sense of #rightouesness and justice that does not aid the victim and in fact aids the abusers in escaping blame for their mulitple behaviors as we se #how the men on the ship tend to blame Jimmy for just one act against them including himself while there is a plethora of things Anya is #concerned about with Jimmy #and its not that Curly just made one mistake with Jimmy but more so we consider his actions more damning because he didn't stop Jimmy #instead of focusing on the fact Jimmy did what he did regardless of Curly and the consequence because we already know he's bad n maladjuste #which is problem in the conversation where the individuals are blamed but the system and perputrator are overlooked in a sense of acceptiab #complacency as we know how they are and the lack of tangibility to personally affect them on a larger scale like I should just make a post #on like cutting out the face when it comes it confronting systems of oppression rather than tag talking but just ask me to clarify if #you want that like im jus trying to say we avoid talking about Jimmy and PE so much cause it is obvious what they do wrong that we make #the initial and inherent problem out to be one aspect someone in this case Curly does and the the constraints they use to force actions

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accirax · 14 days ago

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everybody else shut up (/j) this is the REAL jark dynamic

#EXTRA /j on the commentary if someone else has made this meme already (but I don’t think I’ve seen it?)#is jark even their ship name idk #project: eden's garden #p:eg #jett dawson #mark berskii #jark #apparently it is actually #jettskii

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nenoname · 3 months ago

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this is what fiddlestan is to me

#the sugar baby era that lasted for one week was glorious but alas stan is doomed to be the divorce guy #he was enamoured by mcgucket's presidential promise of a mech for every civilian #also by that gold tooth that part is canon in the stan commentary at least!!!#a world where stan wasnt allowed to become mayor cos too many crimes but becoming first gentleman anyway....#soos and mcgucket now being anime buds is important to me tho #yeah i'll tag this as #fiddlestan #neno draws #stan pines #stanley pines #tho he will always have a place in mcgucket's heart as the guy who inspired his first not-evil mech #this will be the only ship(?) post i'll make for this series lol

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variantsofblue · 2 months ago

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The fact that Goodsir technically doomed Silna twice despite caring for her so much...

#1) when he brought her father for treatment on the ships thereby preventing him from dying on the ice #2) when he inadvertently poisoned tuunbaq #just such good commentary on how you can be a good person but by participating in imperialism you still have terrible effects on the world #the terror

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necrotic-nephilim · 5 months ago

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what's fun about shipping Tim with Dick, Jason, or Damian is he has, at some point, hallucinated all of them to comfort himself. even when he doesn't like them or particularly get along with them, he has to imagine/hallucinate them just so he has the power to go on. Tim's concepts of the Robin mantle and what it should be is so fun, because he respects the others through the Robin mantle. Tim worships Dick because he was the first Robin. he wouldn't be Robin if Jason hadn't died in the mantle. and a lot of his frustration with Damian is he feels Damian isn't honoring the mantle correctly. when you ship Tim with the other Robins you can't divorce their identities as Robin from it because Tim will always see them as a Robin first and that's so fun and fucked up. like.

batman (1940) #456

Tim perceiving Dick as *Robin* cheering him on, not Nightwing, which is the version of Dick that Tim actually knows? that's just. wild of him. he will always view Dick as Robin first, his personal hero but also the original of the legacy. his love for Dick is shaped by that.

and then of course, even when he's hallucinating/imagining Jason cheering him on, it's *still* through the lense of being reminded how Jason failed? subconsciously believing that Jason got himself killed because of his actions, and that being a lesson for Tim to learn from? Jason isn't a person to Tim, he's a moral lesson about how to be Robin. any potential idolization he could have of Jason isn't because he loves Jason, it's because of the lessons Jason's death taught him.

and then, even though him hallucinating TIm is from the New-52, which makes characterization all kinds of questionable, i do think it makes sense for TIm to hallucinate/imagine Damian after Damian's death in an attempt to cope with it.

teen titans (2011) #18

to an extend, he sees Damian's death as in part his own fault. and even hating Damian, Tim needs the comfort from this to cope with Damian being gone. he's angry that Damian even was Robin, and has to learn something from Damian's death and how it impacts the Robin mantle, and teenage heroes as a whole. like, Tim can pretend he hates Damian all he wants, even getting taunted by the image of Damian, but there's still an underlying love to their relationship.

i think that's just the fun of shipping Tim with any of them. you will never divorce Tim's views of them from the Robin mantle and how fucking Unwell he is about anyone else who's been Robin before or after him, to the point he has to hallucinate them comforting him when he's at his lowest. it's always going to be a little unhealthy, a little toxic, and driven by Tim's relationship with being Robin as well. i need more Tim being weird about Robin in these ships.

#necrotic festerings #batcest #jaytim #dicktim #damitim #this post was first going to just be about tim hallucinating damian but i got carried away thinking about the identity crisis arc #have whatever this is.#idk if there's much of a thesis other than “tim's fucking weird about the robin mantle and that should extend to shipping too”#been meaning to post this for forever #finally got around to it though so yay me.#now i need to go work on my jaytim in the new-52 thoughts bc. i have a whole post planned.#a stack of comics next to me for research and everything. god help me.#ALSO while rereading to grab panels #why is it that everyone talks about how jason says “robin is magic” in an attempt to mischaracterize him as sunshine boy #and not the fact that tim *also* says robin is magic?#like it's not a jason thing. it's a robin mantle thing.#that's just what robin *is*. it doesn't say much about jason's character for him to say that when he's robin. it just means he's robin.#the robin mantle is magic. that's the point.#and you could argue that's more of a meta thing that exists on the wavelength of how children where supposed to project onto robin #moreso than an in-universe commentary on what the robin mantle is #(honestly the same argument applies to tim hallucinating here for like. meta intent vs in-universe meaning.)#i hesitate to even call it hallucination it's more like. daydreaming coping.#giving a face to his internal monologue type thing and this is just how the medium depicts it #also it was just sexy and cool for characters to hallucinate loved ones in the 90s in comics. it was a convention of the genre.#but still my point stands. tim pictures all of these ppl as robin first internally #and he self soothes using their image in his head. that's wild of him like what #tim you are weird about the robin mantle more than anyone else i give you that.

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linootte · 9 months ago

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Experimenting. Toph and Sokka are hanging out & chilling somewhere else

#Atla #katara #zuko #aang #avatar the last airbender #Atla fanart #THIS IS NOT A COMMENTARY ON ZUTARA OR KATAANG PLEASE #One thing that made me crazy is how there is ship wars so intense in this fandom. The show came out in 2005 chill out fr

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caitlynspistol · 3 months ago

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watching ror again (this time with more attention to detail), and here is what i've newly picked up on/noticed/want to point out again:

red doesn't want to be queen, doesn't like to be called princess

chloe has a very high sense of duty and honor to her family ("but when i'm out there i'm not just another competitor, i represent cinderellasburg" when talking about her dad signing her up for sns and reminding her that it was supposed to be about having fun)

chloe is part of the auradon historical society??

"and why you'll make a great queen" what about chad??

queen of hearts= empress of wonderland (ie. higher title than chloe should red take the throne)

"get it right or i'll show you punishment!!" yeaaa red had a SHITTY and traumatic childhood under a controlling and abusive mother

"im just a girl, arms open wide, looking for kindness, somewhere in your eyes" soooo even after all that red just wants her mom to love her and accept her and show her kindness! she was never a villain

wait. how does bridget know what red was thinking/singing about if red hadn't opened her mouth? this might just be a musical thing but hm. ability to detect emotions? they somehow connected in a way?

"rule a million years with you right next to me" okay so they probably live longer than auradonian people

og bridget doesn't allow red to eat sweets but red likes them

so qoh's cards have magic that connect directly to wonderland and can summon guards out of thin air, be used as ninja stars (strong enough to break fg's wand in half) and enlargen to create obstacles

lmao without mal as security auradon prep has none (substantial enough)

"everything i do is for you" qoh loves red in her own twisted way

umm i do think cinderella was (intentionally or not) involved in the prank. bridget directed the "humiliating a girl at her first dance, turning her into a monster in front of everyone" at ella and ella just said "you're right" ("you didn't care then, you were off with your prince")

"now make me proud, for once" red only indirectly sentenced ella to death to satisfy her mother and gain acceptance 🗣🗣 bottom alert (and bc ella indirectly challenged her lmao) also what she actually said was "treason. she's guilty of treason" qoh actually called the beheading

qoh kissed red's cheek when she did what she wanted (ie. physical affection as a reward??)

CHLOE WAS PULLING OUT HER SWORD AND WAS ABOUT TO CHARGE AT HER MOM AND THAT WAS WHY RED CHARGED AT HER AND ACCIDENTALLY PULLED HER ALONG THROUGH THE TIME TRAVEL

wait red is actually pretty good at fighting/athletic/stealthy. she held her own against a charming with skilled swordsmanship

("you're not gonna catch me when i fall" "maybe" with the lil up down checking out red look, chloe PLS)

("princess, goody two shoes, boo" just throwing nicknames are we)

"and if i'm the next princess of auradon, it's only a matter of time before she tries to turn me into a mini-me. i'm not gonna let that happen" okay so that's her worst fear. of turning into her mom

"okay i accept your mission" very knight-ly behavior much?

"i love history! don't you?" "uh uh" help-

whoa merlin academy has a lot of wands and magic around, esp compared to auradon prep

awww hades holding maleficent's hand

it looks like red's never seen musical instruments before with the way she looking at everything and picking them up lmao

bridgella <33

red's reaction to ella's punishment and grounding by her stepmother shows that she's experienced the same thing and is Traumatized

red comforting chloe after they look through the looking glasssss

okayy so chloe thinks red is a bad person just bc she wants to "break in and steal" even though that's like the only option?

gay conversation about red being a good person, "your own person" in front of the frozen vks

red believes she's a bad person herself, "a lost cause" bc she "lie, cheat, steal"

chloe believes she's a good person bc she stood up to a bully and "risked your life to save mine"

okay so morgie was the only one not with uliana and her crew bc he was on the lookout... which i think is an important detail that is different from the og timeline... and he seems nice... maybe he was the one who helped uliana actually open and read the cookbook instead? for the prank? hm

#whoa this turned into a whole ass commentary #ANYWAYS #i loved watching it the second time hehe #and ship glassheart as harder as ever #THEYRE SO CUTE!!#glassheart #wenz can talk #descendants #descendants the rise of red #charminghearts #red of hearts #red of wonderland #chloe charming #queen of hearts #princess bridget #bridgella #ella tremaine

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