#ST parallels

[sarahivess]

I think I’ve seen this before

And I liked the ending

[willthewiz]

El: "I love you too."

Mike's reaction:

Mike: "I love you."

El's reaction:

This is supposed to be romantic...?

[conflictofthemind]

@will80sbyers I just watched Donnie Darko (free on YouTube for some reason) and you are so right about that possibly being an inspiration for Will Season Five. Did not know it was set in the eighties!

Will having nightmares being haunted by Vecna, where he’s forced to be the spy again and help him. The leak we have of Will blaming himself for Mike’s family being attacked and in the hospital…

This photo of him on his bike at night!

It drives me insane now knowing that these are the same model of shoes Donnie wears in the movie, and in the new season Will is wearing them once more but inversed.

And then the whole time loop - clocks thing. The rainbow ship drawing // Project Rainbow stuff with Will. Donnie causing the plane’s engine to fall off which either crushes him in his sleep or starts the loop.

Vecna’s insistence that he sees the future and how everyone will fail, specifically showing Nancy how the Wheelers will be taken out. What Will is blaming himself for is the Wheelers being attacked. Will being used as an agent for Vecna to enact his future the same way Frank led Donnie down a particular path of actions in order to insure his future and the stable time loop.

I’ll have more thoughts on this later particularly regarding the time travel stuff. I’m so sure Will has some involvement in starting or perpetuating a time loop that the characters are in that began with the USS Eldridge / Rainbow Ship.

Even more extra thoughts though:

-Both Will and Donnie being artists and drawing the entity that is haunting them!

-Both being referred to as “schizo”

[jonathanbyersphd]

brb going feral from the implications

[theladyrebecca2]

Bylers: have you watched the movie Billy Elliot (2000)?

I watched it for the first time a few weeks ago, and oh my god... I was casually enjoying this queercoded coming-of-age story set in the 80s, following Billy (short for William, I happily noted with my Byler brainrot), only to have a mini heart attack when it was revealed Billy's best friend's name was Micheal.

Guys. I have to talk about this movie, and its possible inspiration for some aspects of Stranger Things.

Okay, so this movie came out when the Duffer Brothers were only 16 years old; it was such a hit that it was turned into one of the world's most famous musicals, which eventually came to the USA/Broadway in 2008 when the Duffers were 24 years old.

I can't help but wonder if, like Harry Potter and E.T. and all the other movies that the Duffers grew up with, this was another story that might have captured their hearts as they were growing up.

Plot

Here's a breakdown of the movie (or at least, the most relevant points I want to highlight), with some info taken directly from its Wiki page because that means I can finish this post quicker:

Billy Elliot is a British coming-of-age comedy-drama set in Northern England in the 1980's.  In 1984 Billy Elliot, 11 years old, lives with his maternal grandmother, his widowed father, and his older brother - the latter two working as coal miners during the 1984-1985 mining strikes under Margaret Thatcher. (For those who don't know UK politics, Thatcher was the Prime Minister when Reagan was President of the US. Both governments were right-wing/conservative).

Billy's father is heavily depressed, grieving his late wife and struggling to make ends meet for his family during the strikes. He sends Billy to the gym to learn boxing, but despite Billy's efforts to enjoy it, he's unwilling at heart.

We first meet Billy's best friend outside the gym. Michael watches intently as a boy walks by - I noticed this and immediately filed it away as potential queercoding...

Billy is unkindly pushed by the boy as he walks past, which indicated to me that Billy - and probably Michael too - are likely seen as outsiders or losers.

Billy wants Michael to join him in the boxing class, but he's quick to reject the idea. Hitting boys for sport isn't something Michael finds fun at all.

Boxing = acceptable masculinity and conformity, much like baseball is used as a metaphor in Stranger Things. Once inside the gym, Billy notices the ballet class using the gym after the boxing session, and despite it being an all-girls class, decides to join in. Even though he clearly enjoys it, Billy is nervous what other people will think of him.

He only opens up about it to Michael. They briefly ditch the other boys in their sports class, taking a different route so they can speak privately. Michael encourages Billy to continue dancing ballet, to just be himself and have fun. Michael is queercoded further by sheepishly admitting he thinks Billy would look good in a tutu.

Billy is taken aback at Michael's admission, but makes no comment. The scene continues with them in high spirits and laughing together.

Billy hides his ballet shoes under his bed mattress, keeping his lessons a secret from his dad and brother (+ I couldn't help but notice the blue-and-yellow:

The scene above flows directly into a scene of Michael and Billy at school, and we can see Michael's adoring gazes at his best friend (notice the lyrics 'don't look back and I love you' sort of lining up with the moment):

Soon it becomes clear that Billy truly has a rare talent for ballet: the class teacher, Mrs. Wilkinson, believes that he's talented enough to study at the Royal Ballet School in London. She advises him to attend the upcoming auditions, and dance professionally instead of becoming a miner like his father and brother. Billy visits Michael at his house for advice. Michael answers the door wearing his sister's dress, startling Billy, who looks around quickly to check if anyone else can see them. Michael insists he's "just dressing up", and once inside, applies lipstick onto Billy so he can join in on the fun.

Michael likes that Billy is doing the thing he truly enjoys, but he doesn't like the idea of Billy having to move away to London. He expresses that he'd miss him. This scene makes it clear that Micheal and Billy can only truly express their true selves around the other.

When Billy's father discovers that Billy is taking the ballet classes instead of boxing, he forbids Billy to continue. He fears Billy will be considered gay. Billy doesn't seem to care too much now what other people think of him; he loves dancing, and that's all that matters.

(Bonus: Billy fires back at his dad with a comment about the kind of lads that like wrestling...)

Whilst things are tense with his Dad, Billy remains passionate about his dancing. He secretly continues his lessons with the help of Mrs. Wilkinson. Meanwhile, Mrs. Wilkinson's daughter, Debbie, expresses romantic interest in Billy... but he seems unsure on how to proceed with her approaches. After pillow fighting, when given a clear opportunity to kiss her, he doesn't take it.

Eventually, Debbie asks Billy if he fancies her. He skirts around the question, making it clear that he's never considered Debbie romantically.

At the end of this scene, Debbie explicity asks Billy if he wants to "see her f*nny" (yikes)... Billy, uninterested and arguably uncomfortable, brushes her off with a firm "nah", and walks away. Whilst I'm sure many would argue that this doesn't necessarily mean Billy isn't straight, I think having him explicity reject her advances here, along with everything else in his narrative, is heavy queercoding.

Anyway. Moving on.

When Billy's older brother is arrested during a clash between police and striking miners, Billy misses his audition for the Royal Ballet School. Mrs. Wilkinson decides to tell Billy's family about the missed opportunity, but Billy's father and brother are outraged that Billy has continued with his ballet. Whilst his brother and father judge him, Micheal freely allows and even celebrates Billy.

At Christmas, after building a snowman together, Micheal wonders out loud if maybe Billy should just run away and join a dancing troupe somewhere else. When Billy tells him not to be stupid, Micheal concedes... he doesn't want Billy to go anywhere.

When Billy complains that his hands are cold, Micheal places them inside his own coat. The boys share a charged moment. Billy seems confused; Micheal shy (+ notice the rainbow Xmas lights framing Billy).

Billy learns that Michael is gay, and has feelings for him. Billy acknowledges that just because he likes ballet, it doesn't mean that he's gay too. This could be confirmation that Billy isn't gay - maybe he's ace, or unlabelled, or still questioning - and yes, it's absolutely true that his love of ballet is no indication either way of his sexuality.

But whilst this scene is, on a surface level, an unrequited love confession, it's also not explicit confirmation on Billy's sexuality (just like him turning down Debbie wasn't either). It's just very interesting when you compare the way Billy handles Debbie's feelings for him, to how he handles Micheal's feelings for him.

Note that Debbie is placed as Billy's female "love interest" in the same way that Micheal is his male "love interest" - both of them parallel the other in their feelings for Billy, and both of them express that they'll miss Billy if he goes to London.

Billy and Michael then sneak into the empty gym together. Billy gives Michael a tutu to wear, and they share a very sweet moment. Billy can dance, become his true self; meanwhile Micheal can wear something feminine, also feeling more like his true self (bear in mind he's just come out to Billy moments before this too).

They're both completely free together.

Unfortunately, on his way back from the pub, Michael's father notices that someone has broken into the gym. He fetches Billy's dad, who watches Billy from the sidelines, and realises his son is truly passionate, and truly talented, about his dancing craft.

Although stunned at first, he resolves to do whatever it takes to help Billy attain his dream. This is a huge turning point in the movie - Billy's family have come to accept him. They love him, no matter what.

There's another scene of Billy and Michael at school, which I think underlines how close the two of them still are. (This was also the scene where I heard Michael's name said for the first time, and practically fell out of my chair...)

With the help of his family and the community, Billy is finally able to attend his next audition in London. Sometime later, the Royal Ballet School sends him a letter of acceptance, coinciding with the end of the miners' strike, and Billy leaves home to study in London - but not before saying goodbye to Michael, reciprocating the kiss on his cheek.

In 1998, 25-year-old Billy performs as the Swan in Swan Lake whilst his father, brother, and Michael and his (assumed) current partner or friend watch with awe and pride from the audience.

Sexuality

Okay, so, disclaimer: it seems the mainstream reading of Billy and Michael's relationship is that Michael is gay but Billy is not. I can't help but disagree with this take! I don't condemn it, but I just don't think that's what this movie was telling us (and I don't understand why they included certain scenes otherwise, e.g. the ones with Billy rejecting Debbie, or Billy reciprocating Michael's kiss on the cheek).

Giving Michael an unrequited crush on his best friend is frustratingly a lot more palatable to a mainstream audience, so I'm wondering if the time it was produced/released (90s/early 00s) is the main factor here, or whether they expanded on Billy's sexuality in the musical version to make him more hetero?? (and the musical is definitely the most famous version of the story these days). However, in this movie, Billy already makes it very clear to Michael halfway through the movie that he accepts him as gay, and that their friendship is not ruined by Michael's romantic feelings for him - so why then would we end the movie with Billy echoing Michael's romantic sentiments by kissing him on the cheek at the moment of their parting? And a somewhat flirty "see you", promising they'll see each other again? It's a very bittersweet moment either way. The two best friends will likely be separated for many years whilst Billy attends the school in London, although I'm sure the audience can expect them to keep in touch via phone or letters. In fact, that's confirmed by the canon narrative, because how else would Michael have known that Billy was debuting as the Black Swan when they're 25 years old? Billy's father and brother act like they haven't seen Michael in many years, but recognise him from Billy's childhood. Maybe Billy and Michael have been in contact the whole time. Maybe Michael moved out of the small country town long ago, and found himself in the big city, just like Billy did? I'd like to think so. Michael is shown to have a partner or friend at the end when they're adults - perhaps this is another reason why the mainstream audience read Michael as gay, and Billy as not? There's no indication either way that Billy has a partner, man or woman - it's left completely open. The existence of Michael's potential partner suggests that Billy and Michael aren't currently together, but that's it! Personally, I just couldn't help but read Billy's kiss to Michael at the end as Billy coming to terms with his budding sexuality (or that he was, at the very least, now open to the idea he may not be heterosexual, and is no longer ashamed or afraid of it). I think that was a powerful character arc for its time.

To me, Billy is dealing with internalised homophobia throughout the entire movie. He fears being perceived as gay because of his interest in ballet, and denies it several times. The fact he loves to perform ballet is NOT relevant to his sexuality! This is a point made explicit in the movie, and I love that. But what is relevant is that he rebuffs the girl who has a crush on him, yet reciprocates a romantic gesture with the boy who has a crush on him. Like, hello?? The subtext is crying out.

Byler nation, I'm begging you to watch this movie so you can form your own opinion on this.

Themes

The themes of Billy Elliot echo many of the themes found in Stranger Things, including grief, family, love, self-acceptance, and most notably, the celebration of the non-conforming. Homosexuality and "queerness", a taboo subject in the 1980s, is also at the forefront of this story.

Billy is not Will, and Michael isn't Mike - rather, they're both a mixture of each. Will, Billy and Michael are all from poor, working class families. Mike and Billy share a position where two members of the opposite sex harbour romantic feelings for them. All four of them subvert gender norms in different ways, some more obvious than others. Michael's self expression and even gender exploration is found through trying on makeup, or crossdressing; Billy's self expression is found through the art of dance. Both of them reject the restrictive inhibitions (and forced conformity) of their community... just like Will, and hopefully Mike come S5. Like Will's escapism into art, fantasy and DnD in Stranger Things, dance is a metaphor for Billy's passion, as well as his escape and frustration.

"Billy's subversion of traditional masculine "gender performativity" is highlighted against the contrast of extreme masculine working-class society. With this focus, Billy Elliot has the position of being "the first mainstream British entertainment to directly interrogate homophobic prejudice as a function of patriarchal society.

The impact of its empowering message of acceptance entered public discourse and education campaigns thanks to the prominence and financial success of the show." - x

Bonus parallels

I just wanted to add this particular moment because... well, you know. I'm making this post for the threads it shares with Stranger Things.

(Context: Billy is answering a question about how it feels when he's dancing).

And then, here... a letter is read from, from Billy's deceased mother, addressed to him. Dear Billy.

And finally:

So what do you think, Byler nation?

[reo-bylerwagon]

woah woah woah

[stranger-theory]

no but fr why do Milevens always say that Mike is 100% in love with El just because he said it.

like, hello??? do any of you remember the whole Stancy dilemma? she confused loving him with wanting to love him. she said "i love you" because she wanted it to be true, not because it was.

which is exactly why mike said he loves eleven but call me crazy

[byler-alarmist]

Something about Steve and Max looking at boys through binoculars is so special to me

[erikiara80]

A sword for Mike

Like others have pointed out, the Castle Byers in this flashback is the one we see in the UD (no microscope when Joyce and Jon look for Will) So, if the UD is really made of different memories, then the Castle Byers with the sword is the one where Will is attacked.

But there's something weird going on there. 1) I don't see any sword when El finds Castle Byers, but inside, it is the Castle Byers with the microscope, so the one with the sword (more about this in a second)

2) The creature is not alone. It's too far from Castle Byers to destroy it, and Will sees a shadow. We still don't know what really happened there!

I also noticed something in S3 that could be connected to that specific moment.

I don't think Max's line "Mike will come crawling back to you in no time, begging for forgiveness" is just there to show that Mike actually looks for Will. I think the "crawling back" is connected to going back in time (maybe through memories?) Steve "crawling backwards", Max and El being brought back, El being dragged on the floor in the Rainbow Room, before she sees the past. And when Mike "comes crawling back to Will, begging for forgiveness", he finds him at Castle Byers.

In S3 Max and El are called "a different species" by the boys because, they say, they act on emotions -> Max mentions Mike crawling back in no time -> because "time is funny and emotions can speed it up or slow it down. We're all time travelers..."

Mike's photo in the shot when El mentions emotions and time travel

So, I think the line about him crawling back, finding Will at Castle Byers, and the sword, mean that Mike will save Will

This could be another clue: when El finds Will, before Castle Byers is destroyed, we see everyone's reaction but Mike's. Interesting choice, since he spends the whole season trying to prove that Will is alive.

No reaction, no sword (because he "has it", or, he will have it? He will be there, in the UD. Well, I don't know if he'll really use it, but I think the sword represents Mike)

El gives him his watch, and behind her the words Home and Time

The title of the first episode of S5 is The Crawl, and the first scene is Will singing (imo) in the UD

But Mike must hurry, because in the S3 campaign, which is paralleled to the one in S1 (The vanishing of Will Byers, The case of the missing lifeguard) there's a trap, a distraction, an ending that is not good, not the real ending ("No, let's finish for real"): dying and then living on as heroes in someone's memories. Mike is even mocking Will here, the only time it happens. And we see Will angry for the first time.

And what does he do? He yells: "FORGET IT, Mike!"

Then he goes to Castle Byers and destroys his memories. Castle Byers is destroyed, like it was destroyed in the UD (Mike was too late)

Another parallel between the campaigns: Mike doesn't understand Will in S3 (before Will destroys his memories and senses that the Shadow is back) and he doesn't understand what he's saying about the roll (before Will vanishes)

They need to communicate, let their emotions guide them, through time and space, and they will find each other. Getting to Mike is the key, and he can't be late anymore, or we don't know what happens if Will doesn't remember anything. If there's nothing left and Joyce's boy is gone

[sapphicslut777]

this scene in st1 when karen is saying to mike “i want you to feel like you can talk to me, you don’t have to hide anything from me” she had no idea about the el plot line at this point… she was letting him know it’s safe to talk to her

suspiciously like this scene from st4 when jonathan is hinting to will that he knows he’s gay and is comforting him and telling him he loves him no matter what and he’s “here to talk, now more than ever” ❤️❤️❤️

[henry-fox-biggest-stan]

Lukeandleiagate btw. If you even care.

Joyce: “El? Aren’t you gonna finish your—”

Karen: “Nancy come back. Come back!”

And obviously Mike paying a lot of attention to his food and “I hope you’re enjoying your chicken, Ted.”

[miwiromantics]

ST ships and parallels - PART 3

this post is to point out similar parallels and their differences between the canon ships in the show, especially in favor of byler and jancy. this is a pro byler/jancy and anti-mileven/stancy post so if you ship the later dni or read at your own risk

this post includes: - byler/stancy parallel ✔️ - stancy/mileven parallels ✔️ - jancy/mileven parallels✔️ - byler/mileven parallels✔️ - byler/ jancy + canon ships parallels✔️

part 1. part 2.

Byler/Mileven parallels:

3. Conflicting

'life started that day' vs 'best thing i've ever done'

season 4 Mike conflicting himself in season 2 in his monologue scene. Mike tells El that his life started the day they found her in the woods while in season 2, he tells Will that asking him to be his friend was the best thing he'd ever done.

also Mike stating that his life started the day Will's turned upside down in front of him also hurts.

most of the ga take this as it is without understanding that this specific line his brings up a lot of conflict. It asks the question 'which scene is Mike lying in,' because both of this cannot be true at the same time.

as a byler i can say that the second scene is shot in a much more genuine way. there is no music in the background and no other shots at any character while the first scene has blaring music and shots at both jonathan, max and will.

4. Mike

there isn't much to expand on in these scenes but it is still very telling. both will and el are looking out the window, crying and mike is in both shots but he only looks at one of them.

personally, i feel as if this is a take on how well mike is at emotionally reading them just like i expanded on in point 3. even if no words are said, Mike still looks at Will. he still looks for Will.

even in the first scene, the camera pans over to Mike glancing at Will instead of his own girlfriend who was just publicly humiliated. i feel like this more of shows mike is more concerned about his relationship with will after their fight than about el.

------------------------------------------------------------

Byler/jancy (+ canon ships) parallels:

now this is the very obvious parallels used by many bylers to prove that they are endgame. most of these i have gotten from this post by @kittykat940. i won't post all their points, pls go through their original post.

1. Car talk

this car talks that usually happens between canon ships, usually when they have their heart - to - heart conversations.

2. Lies

alright, most obvious jancy/byler parallel is that both jonathan and will lies to nancy/mike regarding to steve/el. jonathan lies to nancy saying that steve is the one that told him to take nancy back home during the night of the party while will lies to mike saying that el is the one that commissioned the painting.

3. more parallels (because i can't name stuff)

4. Lumax/Byler parallels

5. Jopper/Byler

6. Byler/Rovickie

these two clips between will and robin is very important. they are both openly queer characters being portrayed in between their love interest and opposing ship. in the first scene, will is blurred out as the audience is meant to focus on mike and el reuniting but still notice that will somehow plays a big part in this. in the second scene, robin is seen more clearly to show her feelings towards what is happening between vickie and her boyfriend. in this scene, the audience is meant to feel bad for robin and root for her love. and we know for a fact, that both robin and vickie will be canon couple in season 5.

same with will and mike perhaps??

both vickie and mike looking at robin/will.

and in the end scene, both of these couples are seen together at the end of the season.

alright... that's all i got. i have linked the first two parts above and pls look at all the original posts.

[pansexualdisasterrr]

mike-brenner parallels

im going to hold your hand when i say this, i only noticed mike's behavior mirroring brenner's in S4 but upon digging deeper, i realized mike and el's relationship has always been portrayed that way

here is an example from season one, which really isnt a parallel parallel but it did scare me

mike forces el into a closet, which at first is like okay valid! since his mom was coming, right? but upon thinking further i realized he could've left her in the room, his mom was clearly not coming upstairs, since she was busy with holly which mike was well aware of because its literally his mother and sister. also, this was only added by the writers to bring light to el's trauma and they purposely chose to use mike in this scene. if they wanted to portray mileven as romantic and not inherently toxic, they would've had lucas lock her since he "hated" her and had mike somewhat save her by opening the closet door for her.

on the other end, el's mind immediately goes to solitary, to brenner, which makes total sense considering the situation she was in. im convinced ever since this incident, el started subconsciously relating mike to brenner but was too young to address it and in season 4, she finally had an epiphany due to the infamous "el, what did you do?" scene.

[michaelwheelerdefiodental]

Jason and Lucas "friendship" parallels to Mike and Will:

In both of these scenes above, they were talking about being accepted by someone; Lucas was accepted by Jason, but in this scene he says that he should never have knocked on his door; Mike, on the other hand, was accepted by Will too; but in this scene he says that this was the best thing he has ever done. But i think in Season 5 they can go further with those parallels.

The Hawkins Messiahs

In Season 4, Jason saw himself as a savior, and a part of Hawkins citizens saw him as one too. He and the rest thought he was protecting Hawkins from forces of evil. He ended up being wrong; the ones he was seeking weren't who were really doing the evil deeds. While he was trying to save Hawkins, he started to get paranoid; we could see in his face the fatigue, sadness, and rage he was going through; he was indirectly influenced by Vecna. Now talking about Will, he's going to be trying to stop the forces of evil against Hawkins, Vecna and the Mind Flayer, as he is one of the main people who can actually really stop them (different from Jason); but now i think it's safe to think he's going to be seen more as antichrist; he is known as the weird boy who came back to live, who had convulsions randomly, and now they will probably discover that he is gay. It's not a stretch to think he will be labeled as the new Satan vessel; they will think he is possessed. Will is going to be probably paranoid with all these things happening while he is trying to stop Vecna; we can see his fatigue in this paparazzi pic above; he seems to be very pale. He will probably be influenced by Vecna, but different from Jason, it will be purposeful.

Talking the hate out of your mind

Now going back to Lucas and Jason parallels with Mike and Will. There's a famous believer that Will is going to attack Mike after being influenced by Vecna. As i said, Jason was indirectly influenced by Vecna to start his rampage; that ended up with him having a fight with Lucas, while Lucas and the rest of the main group were trying to defeat Vecna by using Max as a bait. At a certain point of the fight, Jason started to choke Lucas, who eventually could get his way out of it. But now, how would Mike and Will parallel this scene in Season 5? I came up with this idea after seeing @strawbuddy-luv post above. For me, Mike and Will would be at the church in the Upside Down. Will would get possessed and start to fight Mike, but different from Lucas and Jason, he would avoid fighting Will and start to say how important he is to him, and when Will starts to choke him, he would recite the same monologue from season 2 (with Morse code or not), taking Will out of this state. 

If we analyze the place where Jason and Lucas were fighting (Creel's house attic), it could be seen as a place in the Upside Down, because of the light, and surroundings. Mike and Will scene being in the church would be essential, because of the symbolism. Will being "exorcized" with gay love, something that most religious people loathe and Will is ashamed of, would be a powerful message.

[paladinsbrainrot]

i'm thinking thoughts

something something mike uses el (the first girl not weirded out by him) to project his feelings for will onto (bc she looks like will) something something shauna uses melissa (the first person not scared of her) to project her feelings for jackie onto (bc she looks like jackie)

[manic-pixie-aquarius]

I had many thoughts last night regarding season 5...

As most have pointed out, 1x08 was titled The Upside Down and 5x08 is titled The Right Side Up.

I'm sure we all remember how season 1 ended...

Do we think...? Y'know... Eleven might die?

And after this happens we see Will regain consciousness in the hospital, what if we also had Max waking up as a parallel... Idk... It would be very angsty and tbh I dont think it will happen but I think there is a possibility of El dying in a similar fashion.

I saw someone suggest that Will will die in season 5 but if that happens...

(not that I won't be sad if El dies, it's just that Will is my favorite character and I connect with him on a personal level so if he dies I will never be the same)