#PLEASE STOP TRYING TO CLAIM YOURE A SYSTEM A SYSTEM IS A PERSON WITH OSDD OR DID

[g-n-c-quoi]

the anti-endo side of the internet is rotting my brain by the second what are you people DOING

this is a little bit about the new octocon app but just in general-

speaking as a medically recognized (not diagnosed for safety reasons but doctors are aware) P-DID system, i cannot believe i have to say this, but endogenic systems are entirely unharmful and you look ridiculous trying to pretend they do

“DID/OSDD/etc is a trauma disorder!!” you would be hard pressed to find an endogenic system actually claiming to have those disorders. the vast majority of them have self described as non-disordered

“you can’t be a system without trauma!!” do we know that for a fact? dissociative disorder research is so full of stigma and misinformation that it’s mind boggling, do you honestly trust the dsm-5 to have literally every example of being a system ever written down verbatim?

also systems can be intentionally created for spiritual or personal reasons, please google search tulpamancy

also also it’s incredibly weird and potentially dangerous in some cases to demand proof that someone has experienced life altering brain damaging trauma before you can respect them as who they say they are

“they’re stealing resources!” literally what resources. therapy? they’re stealing therapy? please be serious.

w/ regards to pk/sp and octocon- what tangible harm is it doing to you for someone who calls themselves an endo system to use the same app as you. answer quickly.

i don’t even particularly care that much about this, i’ve largely stopped talking about being a system online because of how mind numbingly absurd the community is, i just cannot overstate how little this discourse matters

if someone is earnestly and intentionally faking being a system then the consequences of that behavior that turn up in their social life will be more than enough without you ridiculing them relentlessly for something that most of the time has little if any material impact

you’re just diet fakeclaiming please find something else to do with your time than bothering people who aren’t bothering you

[sophieinwonderland]

Anti-Endos Don't Deserve a Safe Space!

Alright, if you saw this it in the tags, you can guess what I'm responding to.

Anti-endos and neutrals need to learn that anti-endos are just bigots and bullies looking for an outgroup to dehumanize and send hate to. They don't care about science. They don't care if anything they say is true. They only care about hurting people for being different!

Since when is Tibetan Buddhism a closed culture? Let alone a "VERY" closed culture?

In reality, Tibetan Buddhism is an open religion and a proselytizing on that encourages people around the globe to join! And the Dalai Lama, the highest spiritual authority in Tibetan Buddhism, has even encouraged Christians and the West to use Tibetan Buddhist meditations.

“Many Christians tell me they believe in Buddhist meditation, which can be learned by Christians. We teach right attitude. We teach meditation, which can be quite deep. These would be things that the West can take, and I think it is clear that Buddhists should practice certain Western methods, too.”

These are the words of the religions' highest authority figure!

Stop trying to declare the Tibetan Buddhist religion closed just so you can use them as a talking point to spread hate!!!

Since this is invading inclusive and pro-endo tags, as always, my response is going into anti-endo tags. If anyone takes issue with this, please hold your own community accountable for invading our spaces and take it up with @the-helside-sys.

I don't believe anti-endos deserve a safe space to spread hate but I'm willing to allot them one so long as they aren't breaching into inclusive and pro-endo spaces and aren't tagging hate posts like this:

But I'm actually not done yet!

I want to respond to another one of their posts!

First, this isn't true. A scientific theory has to be testable, and has to be tested and supported by evidence. But it's not necessarily "generally accepted as truth."

And with soft sciences, what constitutes a theory can be a bit questionable. See many of Freud's psychoanalytical theories.

This isn't really relevant. It's just an important point I want to bring up for people putting too much stock into psychological theories as if they're accepted facts.

Structural dissociation is meant to cover a very specific form of multiplicity.

Endogenic systems aren't ignoring the theory of structural dissociation because the theory of structural dissociation does NOT support anti-endo claims.

The author of the theory have stated that it may be possible for self-conscious dissociative parts of the personality to exist through other means, citing hypnosis and mediumship as examples:

The theory of structural dissociation's own creators are, at worst, neutral on endogenic systems acknowledging that trauma may not be the only way for self-conscious "dissociative parts" to form.

And you will not find a single paper saying the only way to be plural is through trauma. It doesn't exist!

Anti-endo views are not backed or supported by science or experts in any way!

...

Now, back to the title... Like I said... anti-endos don't deserve a safe space. But this isn't about what anyone deserves to me. It's about escalation.

I'm willing to let anti-endos keep to their bigotry in their own spaces for the time being so long as they behave and keep it there.

But continuing to post hate in our tags is unacceptable. Currently, I avoid posting in anti-endo tags to keep the peace except for posts like this. And even in posts like this, I don't post in DID or OSDD tags out of respect even when discussing those topics.

But it's certainly something I could do. Were anti-endos to continue to erode boundaries between spaces and encourage their followers to invade inclusive and pro-endo tags, I would have no problem appropriately tagging my posts that are about DID with "#DID" and similar tags. It wouldn't be against the rules of the site because my posts are about the topic I tag it with. And why maintain a boundary if it's only going to be respected by one side?

So to people who feel it's important to maintain separation between communities... I'd highly advise you do better at policing your own community's crosstagging so that we can all maintain our safe spaces, whether you feel we deserve to or not. Thank you! 😊

(This applies to both the explicitly endogenic and pro endo tags, as well as the plural and plurality tags given that "plural" was a term coined by non-disordered systems and is inherently inclusive.)

[bettertwin1]

Hi, old follower here from before you had 100 followers. I've got a semi serious question for you.

When I first followed you, I got the impression that you were a RP blog, in the case where you would RP with your "brother" (bettertwin9000), so I followed the rules as such. But later on it seems that this blog is your persona? In terms of everything said to this blog is a personal question to you? It's a weird situation where people asking those intrusive questions make sense for a RP blog, but in a normal blog situation it makes it intrusive.

Tldr, I think many are confused if this is an RP blog or you having Leo as your persona, so can you confirm what this blog actually is?

OMG HI LONG TIME FOLLOWER!!

And, for the sake of things making a little bit of sense, as much as sense as we can manage, keep in mind that we have OSDD, we're a system-

PUTTING IT UNDER CUT CAUSE IT'S LONG 😅

At the start of the blog <- in which we were advertising it as a roleplay blog, it was being run by our host and partially by me though I had no clue what I was doing at the time and bettertwin9000 was being run by our partner <- (which btw, made for some strange asks)

We continued advertising it as a roleplay even when we began suspecting and having full breakdowns over the idea of being a system due to some little things and some big things and lots of research and therapy and blah blah BUT we kept going back on it cause tbh DID is a hard thing to accept and we didn't want it <- still don't

SO now I was trying to run the blog more all the while trying to keep us grounded, IGNORING the possibility of DID and thinking, nah, this is just a really bad cause of delusions and we NEED to get reality checked NOW.

But I ALREADY KNEW i'm not REALLY Leo from rottmnt, but I am him, I was formed from that guy, created? Idk. He made me in his own image type reference audio. WOW IM NOT EXPLAINING ANYTHING 😭😭 did I mention we have a tendency to overexplain <- but specifically for me in the case of explaining things that are hard to explain, ANYWHIZZLE.

We kept going back and forth, confirming and denying the conclusion "we have osdd" cause that's terrifying and while this was happening I was still trying to force us to post and interact and involve ourself in arcs for the sake of distraction from EVERYTHING happening irl and the blog kind of made it worse but in a light hearted way cause suddenly the asks became really gross, and I felt really gross.

Sure, maybe someone who was roleplaying Leonardo would have no trouble answering asks about dead relatives or near death experiences or villains that have physically harmed you and your 'siblings' or about my crippling inability to speak about feelings and whatever else people diagnosed me with on here but I was having trouble answering it, I was getting uncomfortable and I was feeling genuinely overwhelmed because everything that definitely would be great material for a roleplay account was making me just feel, bad. <- which wasn't great considering at the time, feeling bad was not something i could have been affording to do

SO at some point, I started putting boundaries, didn't explain why, just continued under the guise of hey, roleplay guy here, the intruvsive invasive asks about my family and my mental health and my anatomy is making me want to die so please stop andbonly ask fun stuff like idk, if i put salt in donnie's coffee sometimes and everyone was like, yes leonardo in unison.

Then I slowly started getting more adamant on pushing the narrative that I am LITERALLY Leo from the show cause pushing that seemed to really help with the questions, and then the roleplay blog became more like. A personal blog for some dude who happened to be a ninja turtle alter and it'd unfortunately gotten so out of hand that explaining this now kind of made us even more exhausted cause oh man, we might get fake claimed huh <- we had worse things to deal with, internet drama didn't need to be added to this.

Anyway, if you read through all that junk, i'm sorry 😭, but i think it helps explain why the impression of the blog is so confusing cause it was being run by two ppl, a host and an alter who were constantly trying NOT to be those things until pretty recently when we started accepting the fact that we have Osdd

SO TIMELINE.

The blog starts off as an rp blog by our host and I unbeknownst to us both

The blog is fun and we start gaining traction

We also start gaining more mental health problems and have a full breakdown multiple times on many different social medias

We push through to cope

We talk to the other blog runners who are systems <- (Mikey, Raph and at the time when their account was apart of this, April) and they kindly answer and guide us through some things

We start adding boundaries for my sake

We talk to other systems on other social media and they help us with more stuff

We talk to our therapist

We do a ton of research on top of old research we'd apparently already done before <- suddenly we have a long document with so much information

We tell no one about the discovery when we start accepting the possibility

More funny stuff ensue and personal life things happen <- #ONLYTHEREALONESKNOW!

The only announcement I ever make that i'm an alter are one off comments in tags or answers that I never address again until I make an intro post that says I'm an alter in a system

The blog is what now?

The blog is still a roleplay account. Sometimes, canceled arcs that we would have done would have been considered roleplay <- a canceled christmas arc. But usually, this is just a blog. Like, this is just a blog I use to entertain people and to get some of my thoughts out like a singlet would. It's both i guess, it's whatever I want it to be and whatever you guys consider it to be.

The blog is just, my blog, I don't know how else to explain it 😅😅

Also, Bettertwin9000 was pretty much going through the same thing at the time and fun fact, he is actually my "brother" cause he's a Donnie alter <- (yay!)

Shoutout to the host who has their own blogs that they never really post on! couldn't have done it without you! <- and the many kind individuals who gave us their research material and links and answered our questions and stuck w/ us through the most confusing part of OUR LIFE

Srry again if this didn't answer your question like at all by the way, i THINK it at least explained some things but you know 😭 SORRY IDK

[k9protocol]

hello! hope you’re doing well :) So I recently heard of osdd a few months ago but I didn’t think too much on it, but I’ve been noticing more and more lately that a lot of my symptoms that I thought was just dissociating actually seem to fit the criteria, I tried looking for more symptoms and ways to tell if it’s osdd but all it said was the reason why it’s different from DID. Do you know any ways I could tell if it is, or is not, osdd? I’ve ruled out DID already bc I don’t get amnesia or things like that so I don’t think it’s that, but my entire personality does change intensely very quickly with no cause as I could tell, and not just when I’m around different people. I also have been told I probably have bpd so I’m not sure if that could have to do with it.

Hello Anon, thank you for the question and we hope you’re doing well too! So my first suggestion would definitely be to look into any other disorders that could overlap with symptoms. It’s quite common for some disorders to share the same symptoms!

Although this doesn’t mean you don’t have OSDD, it’s just a good a good way to be sure it isn’t anything else.

With that being said, with how you can know? I mean, when we were younger we dealt with childhood trauma which is one key aspect. If you suspect you are a system, the one of the many required criteria is that you went through childhood trauma! As that’s the only way alters could have started to split. Overtime we noticed different individuals but we kinda figured maybe it was part of our imagination? At some point when we found out about what DID was, we claimed to have that but later stopped because the criteria didn’t fit us.

Then we learned more about OSDD, we experience little to no amnesia, experienced childhood trauma even before the age of 9, dissociative symptoms, and split alters. That’s how we personally knew it was OSDD, only recently did we get officially diagnosed by our therapist.

Let us also acknowledge yes a therapist can diagnose you if they also specialize in dissociative disorders! She had us do a couple of tests that she could score and we spoke to a psychiatrist. Our therapist, psychiatrist, and our therapist’s supervisor wanted to check that it wasn’t psychosis first (although the psychiatrist other thought was DID).

But anyway, as for switches you could use something called SimplyPlural which could be helpful for a suspecting or definite system. You could also try journaling.

Now onto the sub types for OSDD, this one I don’t have much information on? When researching about OSDD we found out about OSDD 1A & 1B, which 1B fit us since that seemed more alter specific while 1A seemed more like identity confusion or alteration but with no alters present. But I’ve also heard the terms 1A/1B have been removed from the DSM -5 and how it’s something else. I’d just go based on what you think is best using reputable sources of course! (People who use 1A/1B aren’t wrong or anything as that was the original terms I believe)

Even when we got diagnosed she just said OSDD but no numbers added. But anyway apologies if this got really long and I do hope we offered some perspective and answer to your question! Though please feel free to send in another ask if you need any clarification (or dm privately!).

-Segment E-880

[desdecourse]

breaking down the "Debunking Sysmeds" carrd (just for kicks 😍) part 1!!

was sent this carrd by a friend and it's been a while since i've interacted with endo logic so here we go! <3 let's break it down section by section because whew girlie is chock full of bonkers misinformation! henceforth, i will be referring to the person who made the carrd as the "creator" and using they/them pronouns, as i do not know their pronouns (please let me know if anyone does!).

----------

THE "CLAIMS AND REBUTTALS"

if y'all don't stop using 20 different fallacies in your arguments... it'll be all over for you... seriously!

----------

the first point the creator tries to rebuff is the argument of "DID/OSDD-1 is a trauma disorder." starting off strong, i see! their response is essentially that nowhere in the diagnostic criteria within the DSM-V or ICD-11 does it say that DID/OSDD requires trauma. immediately going to stop you there - it may be to the creator's benefit to read any other page of the DSM. the third sentence on the intro page for trauma-related disorders is:

"Placement of this chapter reflects the close relationship between these diagnoses and disorders in the surrounding chapters on anxiety disorders, obsessive-compulsive and related disorders, and dissociative disorders"

additionally, had the creator read the ENTIRE DID entry, not just the diagnostic criteria, they would have found this lovely quote, found in the "development and course" section of the DID entry:

Dissociative identity disorder is associated with overwhelming experiences, traumatic events, and/or abuse occurring in childhood.

within this section, the creator also discusses an article written by allen j frances, the person responsible for the changing of MPD to DID, in which he discusses the abundance of false diagnoses of DID following the recognition of it as a disorder after the release of the DSM-IV in 1994. firstly, the creator of the carrd incorrectly stipulates that frances renamed MPD to DID in the DSM-V. secondly, the creator uses frances' criticism of increased DID diagnoses to demonstrate that the diagnostic criteria isn't to be trusted.

what.

so, to reiterate, we should trust the DSM-V when it doesn't emphasize trauma in the diagnoses (false), but we also shouldn't trust the DSM-V because of an article written by someone who had nothing to do with the DSM-V?

----------

the second point the creator decides to rebut is "Science says Endogenic systems don't exist." now, much of this argument is rooted in a few "studies" the creator has linked, which i will analyze more in a separate section reserved specifically for source analysis. but! one really interesting part of this section is the comparison between endogenics (an internet community and internet term) to "marginalized religions such as Shamanism" which is a direct quote.

something i really need endos on the internet to understand is that you can't compare your just-realized "system" of non-traumatic origins to the spiritual practices of highly religious individuals who have been practicing their religions for decades, engaging in extreme asceticism, and doing really intense internal reflection. and you especially shouldn't throw in words like "marginalized" to your argument. at what point does that become cultural appropriation?

i also find it soooo interesting that the creator refers to the otherkin and alterhuman communities as something that has "existed long before the term DID/MPD/OSDD-1/DDNOS." the first recorded use of "otherkin" was in 1990 in a newsletter from an elf club in kentucky, and it has been predominantly an online community. the concept of DID (MPD at the time) first appeared in the DSM-III in the 1970s.

the creator also refers to endogenic systems as something people "believe" in, which is... questionable in it's own right. it is interesting that they brought this point up in the section in which they are trying to combat the idea that science does not back up endogenic systems, as religious beliefs (with no proof, something that people simply "believe" in) and science (which is backed up by decades of research) aren't exactly comparable.

----------

the third point rebutted is the statement "You're not a system, you're schizophrenic/psychotic." honestly, not a big issue with this one. i've never heard anyone say this personally, but i can totally see it happening, and it definitely shouldn't be done. no one can really tell you what you're experiencing, so i take no issue with the creator on this one! i don't think this at all supports the existence endogenics, though.

----------------

i don't want to make this too long, so i'm going to write out the remainder of the points on a part 2!

[cronaz-diary]

"wahhhh wahhh!! your fake claiming my favorite delusional person!!" you cry as you fake claim me,

I love fakeclaiming fakeclaimers!!!! It's so fun!!!!!!!

Also the creepy crawlers aren't delusional 💔💔💔 Arent you a schizo?

whos been through years of actual torture and the system trying to kill themselves over being a system and other shit,

The creepy crawlers has gone through that too you aren't special!! <3

go touch grass,

You first!!!!

"oh dont take this me (You mean "as me"?) fake claiming creepy whatever the username is im just saying their "endo alters" is them needing help!!!"

"Im not fakeclaiming them I just think a good portion of their headmates, including Samuel's literal insys partner, are fake!!" 💀

also you sound obsessive thats not healthy stop stalking me adn this other person

LMAOOOOOO HOW AM I STALKING ANYONE ?? 😭 Im literally just someone calling out your insanity 💔 please get help /gen

and i genuinely do not remember are we forgetting the whole amnesia part of osdd??

System accountability when...

you also said retards while complaining about me saying retards

I copy and pasted your text. Dumbass

and the fact this person is 15 tells me they "self diagnosed" but the tiktok way if they dont know this basic shit

Also them being 15 doesnt make their DID fake you're literally 17 so you're also most definitely self diagnosed with your (probably fake) OSDD lolol

Also "basic shit" and its long disproven misinfo that harms real people

anyway stop stalking me you are weird as shit and i still believe you are crwalers!!! oh btw your still a pussy

Im not stalking you, im not the creepy crawlers and its weird that you keep saying that I am cause you cant fathom someone calling you out on your schizo shit, and you're** ❤️❤️ Hope this helps!!

okay but like i said im not fake claiming them have you heard of systems that are also delusional and they need help for that? i wouldnt get involved if it wasnt harmful, but it is!!!! also yes, 15 year olds can be systems, im saying that its a problem when a impressionable child self diagnosis without proper research and retards like you not helping!! you also are sorta stalking like why are you constantly refreshing the page to see me respond? go get a life, i never said creepy crawlers didnt go through shit i believe they did learn to read first!! fake claiming is actuually fucked up and im not by saying a fact, i could totally tell you some the fucked things that happened to us and still happens to us will that make you happy?? to get off to some childs traumatic torture??? btw copy and pasting a slur is still bad and weird and im doing all this while half conscious and shit i dont feel like explaining to retards like you nwo fuck off

and go cry about me telling you some facts

do some real research on plurality before you be ableist by the way!!!

also i wonder if i turn off anon asks if you still would harass me

[lightofthemoon19]

i genuinely need someone to just explain to me how endo systems think their systems/brains work. not spiritual systems, but like ones who claim to have just been a system from birth, or that they created their alters or developed it at some point in life. who knows, maybe our stance on syscourse will change. this isn’t me trying to be confrontational or anything, i’m just genuinely asking, systems who claim to have formed without trauma, how does that work biologically/scientifically?

systems that claim to have formed through spiritual/religious origins, we personally are not religious in any way and don’t believe in things like souls, so this doesn’t really apply to you because whatever explanation you have my response is pretty much just…cool, but not possible/real according to my beliefs lol, you do you though, everyone’s allowed to have their own ideas about that sort of stuff (but please don’t claim your experiences are in any way shape or form similar to those of a DID/OSDD system).

i mostly just find it interesting that people talk about being a system/being plural as though their brain just…didn’t do or stopped doing a very basic life function; integrating one’s self-states into a singular personality. and if your system supposedly developed later in life, have you just somehow figured out how to overpower the very way that your brain works so that different parts are working, thinking, and experiencing things at different times, completely separate from each other? do you have amnesia from each other, and if so, how? brains, according to my knowledge and understanding at least, can’t just…do that? DID/OSDD system’s entire brains function and work differently, they’ve developed differently, and they conduct basic functions such as storing memory and taking in sensory input differently, due to the intense amount of trauma/stress they experienced completely reshaping how their brain’s work. and i’m really curious how that complete reshaping of the brain’s functions allegedly works /gen.

[wyvolf]

✧ PINNED INTRODUCTIONS POST✧ ―――――――――― Howdy! You can call me any of the following: Cosmo, Kripke, Glacier, Gun, etc. Please use these interchangeably when talking to me or about me please! 24, gay queer, trans man he/him, howl/howls prns. Australian. Artist, sometimes animator, sometimes writer.

Please note that I am autistic + adhd, dyslexic and generally mentally ill (paranoia, UDD + de-personalization/de-realization, memory issues). Questioning OSDD, saving for a psych visit about this, even if I may be wrong what I experience is very real for me. Fakeclaimers go get a job!

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Endogenic "system"*, a Tulpa, think you can be a system without trauma, or generally ableist and reality-checky, as well as anti-kin, anti-therian, etc. (*Note! Even if you do use "endo" I will not fakeclaim you! As I personally do not know you, I cannot dictate if what you experience is true or false, etc. Just if you use this label i personally you rather didn't interact just due to the amount of sour interacts I had with endos, tulpas and whatever the fuck else)

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[lifeafterpsychiatry]

I know you're trying to be mindful and not make anyone upset, but when you say things like plural or system being primarily heavily associated with DID, it's not really true. I understand that you don't want to offend and i definitely don't want to force you to use any terminology. But especially "plural" is actually a term more often associated with non-DID plurality, and for example I call myself plural instead of a system to avoid people 'coming after me' for using terminology also used by people with DID... So again I'm not saying you personally should call it that, but since you guys have a big platform, be careful to spread the notion that all words related to plurality are DID/osdd etc exclusive... Bc it can really harm those of us who are trying to use terms for our experiences that won't offend, but then after a while someone will claim they're "DID exclusive" and we have to come up with yet more terms etc etc... Sorry not trying to be bitchy and hope this doesn't come across bad. But just in your eagerness not to offend one side of the discourse, please be careful not to throw the other side under bus. Thank you for listening!

Yeah you have a point but I never said that any of those terms are exclusive to DID. I just said we're not personally comfortable using them because of their association with a diagnosis we don't have. I'm not trying to police anyone - that's just how I feel. If you feel differently, go off. I won't stop you

[gyrfa-gariadus]

Explaining my banner

If you are a part of my DNI please don’t follow, like, reblog, comment, or otherwise interact with my blog.I will block you without messaging.

My actual DNI is here.

An endogenic system is are plural systems who claims to exist without trauma being the cause of their existence. we highly appreciate if you didn’t interact with our posts. You can block us, that’s totally cool. We don’t mind. We personally block endos because it can be triggering for some of us. So if we block you and you’re an endogenic “system”, it might not be because you’re an ass or anything. You can say what you want however I don’t want these people ,as a traumagenic DID system, on my blog. No I will not argue it with you nor will I post about it. Many new systems (especially younger systems) get dragged into endo “lore” and gaslighted into thinking they are endogenic . It is better just to not perpetuate endo nonsense and to distance endos from our community, as well as keep younger & newly discovered systems safe. Before I get white ND kids in my inbox if you do not have DID/OSDD, then don't even attempt at arguing, you will be blocked and I will not feel bad, I don't care who you are.This is different from just self diagnosed. if you’re not ready to acknowledge your trauma, thats fine, but please stop spreading harmful misinformation about a trauma based disorder and encouraging things like “system hopping” and “being born a system”, and PLEASE stop calling people who have DID/OSDD who are calling you out “sysmeds” and “traumascum”. you’re doing far more harm than good with toxic positivity and name-calling.endogenic systems discredit abuse by saying things such as bullying, neglect and love bombing aren’t enough to cause traumagenic did. This is False. trauma is trauma. What effects you may not effect someone else. Don’t discredit others experiences.

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LGBT+phobia of any kind will not be tolerated at all on my account.

Terf meaning trans exclusive radical feminism. So a ‘feminist’ who excludes the rights of transgender women from their advocacy of women's rights. Transphobia is not welcome on my page .

Swef meaning Sex Worker-Exclusionary Radical Feminist, a label for a woman who supports mainstream feminism but opposes sex work, believing it is ultimately oppressive. Though this is a SFW account I am pro sex work and kink and do not oppose either.

If you’re going to try arguing with me then don’t point out my dyslexia you’ve already lost all your credibility at that point.

[sophieinwonderland]

Stop Posting Hate and Disinformation in Endogenic Tags!

Does it? Are you sure? Because that's a really bold way to start off a post in a community with a lot of people who have PTSD!

But even bolder is this claim:

I would ask for the source for this, but I already know it.

Now, to be fair, there is a lot of wiggle room where some can argue semantics of what an "alter" is.

Luckily, today we aren't arguing semantics, as they made it clear in a comment that they don't believe endogenic systems are experiencing any sort of plurality! Yay!

Now, back to their claims... it's true that most evidence of any forms of consciousness in psychology is based on believing people's personal experiences.

Psychology is distinct from neuroscience in this way. Hopefully, we can get neurological evidence too. Stanford University was conducting an fMRI study into tulpamancers. But that study isn't complete yet.

But it is worth noting that practically every researcher who has looked into endogenic and non-disordered plurality do believe it's a real phenomena.

As mentioned above, Stanford University has invested anywhere from tens of thousands of dollars to hundreds of thousands of dollars into a neurological study of tulpamancers.

The ICD-11 by the World Health Organization states that you can have multiple "distinct personality states" without a disorder.

The creators of the theory of structural dissociation have said that hypnosis and spiritual mediumship may create "self-conscious dissociated parts of the personality."

Transgender Mental Health by Eric Yarbrough has an entire chapter discussing plurality, including acknowledging non-disordered and endogenic plurality. Eric Yarbrough is a Distinguished Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association, and this book was published by APA Publishing.

And these are but a few.

Psychiatrists and psychologists overwhelming support the existence of endogenic plurality.

Is there any reason for the human brain to just randomly decide to be a singlet?

Why do the 80-billion neurons in the human brain just decide to be one person? Why is a singlet treated as inherently the default for humanity?

Total side tangent, but not all alters fit neatly into the ANP/EP dichotomy. The thing that defines an ANP is not simply being dissociated from the trauma, but trying to continue on with normal life and avoid it. Hence, being "apparently normal."

Many alters though, just don't fit into that as described. I would argue that a non-traumagenic alter who never fronts isn't really an ANP according to the Theory of Structural Dissociation.

Yup. That's why I'm responding to this. Your post is nothing but misinformation.

Most words have etymology in other cultures. Hurricane, for example, comes from an indigenous religion that referred to storm gods. This is a natural process as cultures interact.

For the record, "tulpamancy" IS created headmates. The term "tulpamancy" is purely Western, with the -mancy suffix originating in Latin. And whether you like it or not, the ongoing studies into tulpamancy will be into this Western practice, not the Tibetan sprul pa from which it draws its etymology.

Maybe you should take your own advice.

Although if you have a single credible source proving that endogenic plurality can't exist, you're welcome to show me.

You: "Stay out of DID/OSDD spaces" Also You: *Tags post as "#endogenic" and "#endogenic systems"*

Anyway, as always, anti-endos coming into endogenic tags means the response goes to anti-endo tags. If anti-endos do not like me posting in their tags, please take a moment to explain to @frenzyborderlines why crosstagging into our spaces is bad (and incredibly hypocritical from someone telling endogenic systems to stay out of CDD spaces) so I won't need to do this again.

[wearepolyfragmented-blog]

(The first image is OP saying to use other terms instead of ones like scum, then the second image is them deciding that nevermind its ok to use words like scum towards trauma victims)

Something I want to point out about the use of terms like plurscum, traumascum or now plurmedicalist or multimedicalist:

When endogenic systems and plural communities yell about how people with DID/OSDD need to “leave them alone” and “make their own communities” and how we are “encroaching on theirs” to express we are upset, I want to make something very clear: You are in our community not the other way around.

When people with DID/OSDD have asked you time and time again to please just make your own communities where you DON’T use our terminology and DON’T claim yourselves as part of us (which you do by inherently claiming multiplicity is a spectrum that involves your experiences instead of literally just calling your “natural plurality” its own phenomenon), you all stick your fingers in your ears and yell about how you are being hurt over the very reasonable request “Don’t take terminology from trauma victims and make your own”.

But here’s where it gets worse, when you use terms like trauma scum, plurscum or even try to create the false equivelancy that having DID is the same as being trans so thus, plurmedicalist is born, you are inherently tying us to your community.

When you create these terms you are deliberately saying that our community is part of yours, but the bad or wrong part of it that you don’t agree with. If you really wanted people with DID/OSDD to be their own community you would not use derogatory terms towards us that define us as the wrong way to view our literal experiences, you would just accept us as something different.

So tell me, why in the everloving fuck do you get to cry about us “bothering you in your spaces” when you use OUR terms, you misguide people with DID/OSDD into your community through misinformation, you call us part of your “plurality umbrella” and then to top it all of define us as the bad side of your experiences with these fucking terms to throw at us?

It’s honestly disgusting and that’s not even getting into the deep-rooted ableism it comes with!! You don’t get to run around claiming we are encroaching on your spaces when we ask you to stop when you spread to the public that our experienec is a subset of yours! Fuck you!

Also go figure that no one makes up terms like “autmedicalist” for autistic people who also just reinforce that ASD is a developmental disorder and nobody sits down and tries to intentionally meditate into having symptoms of ASD like the difficulties with social interaction because it’s not cool and trendy like the bastardized concept of having alters (also yes I have ASD so i’m allowed to make that comparison).

DID/OSDD only gets this treatment because there’s a fetishistic aspect to our disorder due to misunderstanding of why alters exist and thinking that concepts like tulpamancy where you intentionally try to create people in your head is the same thing as having an involuntary fragmented sense of self from trauma. Both sound like “multiplicity” when you define it by “more than one person in your head” but the experiences and causes are so viscerally different and this is something endogenics miss the mark by a fucking mile. It’s like saying neurotypical people who like to watch stim videos for fun are the same as being autistic and are part of the autistic community.

[justanothersyscourse]

Yeah, that's completely false, it's a myth used to discredit the DSM and people who support it. Allen Francis, the chair of the DSM IV, was one man out of dozens upon dozens who didn't believe in MPD. God forbid, how terrible. Good thing he wasn't on any of the research teams, actually had zero say in whether it was removed from the DSM, AND zero say in the name change.

Any changes he did make to the DSM were removed, IN THEIR ENTIRETY, from the DSM less than two years later in the DSM IV TR, and he was never asked back again (he claims he was, but that's proven false by other clinicians involved in the development of the DSM 5).

But yes, that's right, his changes were from THREE VERSIONS AGO. Maybe we should stop talking about him, and inflating his massive ego that makes him think he's still even remotely relevant.

Also, if you don't believe that, just think that there were several other disorders renamed and reclassified in the same go.

Are we going to claim he didn't believe in any of those, either? That's a big leap.

MPD was renamed, it's the same disorder as DID, and OSDD is the same disorder as DDNOS. It wasn't "added" by him.

Maybe understand that sysmeds aren't upset about endos existing and challenging whether we're "valid" (that's stupid, and a massive misrepresentation of the issue), we're upset at how completely uneducated you all are, and how you spread this misinformation to other systems and singlets.

Looking at you, @a-dragons-journal, who is now ALSO spreading this misinformation by providing a platform for it.

Late edit, I've also read through your post of... "Points"? Arguments? Whatever you want to call them that you want people to address, but they're all so... Terrible. My god. It really just shows that you, like the people you're associating with, have zero comprehension of what DID/OSDD actually is, and that your view of those systems is incredibly ableist.

Please stop implying that we're some kind of disordered subtype of the overall plural umbrella.

DID/OSDD involves actual injuries to the brain from trauma during developmental years. There is ZERO overlap. We are not "multiple people in a body or mind," though we're ABSOLUTELY allowed to and capable of claiming that, for sake of simplicity and comfort. The entire problem here is the mixing of language between DID/OSDD communities and the plural community. There is such an overlap that we've lost the ability to correctly describe what we're experiencing compared to plurals. Their use of our language has muddied the waters to the point of incomprehension. THAT'S the invalidation we're talking about (and yes, "system" is a clinical term originally intended for DID/OSDD-- it's system of parts. System of people doesn't make much sense, it was ALWAYS "system of dissociated parts").

It's people who think the philosophical experience of IFS is the same thing as alters. It's just not, and the mixing of language makes it impossible to have a clear conversation about one or the other without underlying confusion.

I also wish people would stop bringing the trans argument into this. Transmeds go AGAINST the DSM and all current research and understand of trans identities. The DSM acknowledges the wide array of experiences. It says that not all trans people will experience dysphoria, and not everyone who experiences dysphoria will find themselves in need of treatment.

Transmeds are trying to gatekeep a personal and fluid identity.

Sysmeds support current research, clinical understandings, and the DSM. "System" isn't an identity, it's not something that can be picked up and put on. It's an experience that is constant, and PHYSICAL. These are actual structural changes to the brain, and you can see switching and trauma based injuries on scans in those diagnosed with DID.

The two aren't comparable.

Your entire post became invalid the moment you compared the two, because it showed how little you actually know about what you're talking about.

Finally, DELETE THIS ASK, that's a disgusting thing to say about people who are simply frustrated about the fact that they can't have a clear conversation about what they're experiencing because of shared language.

This is a very pervasive myth in the overall "multiple" community right now-- that DID/OSDD systems are incapable of being happy or loving their systems.

Hey, fun fact, did you know that the DSM says you don't actually have to be "dysfunctional" to be DID or OSDD? Right under functional consequences. Distress, impairment, and dysfunction can be minimal and high functioning professionals are still DID/OSDD, based on the fact that the injuries to the brain from childhood trauma never go away. This allows people who have achieved either healthy multiplicity or fusion to maintain their diagnosis, EVEN IF THEY'RE VERY, VERY HAPPY.

Fuck off with that crap. We're entirely capable of being functional and happy with and about our systems

As a ~diagnosed~ DID system, this syscourse shit is out-of-pocket as hell. No systems secure in their identity with a healthy relationship to themselves and the internet should be bothered by endogenic systems just existing and describing their experiences. DID/OSDD were added to the DSM by someone who does not think either exist. We are in the medieval era of plural understanding and shutting down discovery in its infancy because it makes you feel less valid is dangerous for all of us.

Yeah, that seems like a fair take to me. And yeah, I have heard that about the person who changed MPD to DID/OSDD - that it was basically "the next best thing to getting rid of it entirely".

[wearepolyfragmented-blog]

First of all, don’t you dare call me an exclusionist. It is extremely triggering and hurtful to say i’m excluding anyone for simply wanting boundaries. To exclude or gatekeep someone you have to be denying them access to spaces and resources they actually need, which people who claim their multiplicity is “natural” do not need the resources those who experiences their multiplicity as disordered do so there is nothing wrong being done. If anything it’s appropriative to literally try to recontexualize our mental illness and struggles and in the process damage our communities. Having boundaries is normal and healthy. WTF.

Second of all, no it’s not harassing or abusive or gaslighting to say you HAVE TO FIT THE CRITERIA OF A MENTAL ILLNESS TO HAVE IT. Please, your reading comprehension is so beyond me I can’t understand where you’re drawing the conclusion that this is abusive. It’s not abusive to simply say we need spaces for our experiences that differ from people who claim they can be systems w/o trauma. Unless we are talking about a specific person in question specifically harming someone then where in the hell is it appropriate to use these sorts of buzzwords at a group of exclusively trauma victims asking to be left alone and to stop having our illness and experiences walked over?

I do not think the medical field is perfect by any means and as someone who has stigmatized phyiscal illnesses not treated seriously in the field, I understand very intimately what it’s like to have them be wrong. BUT, the people who actually study DID/OSDD in the field and who specialize and are passionate about it know a hell of a lot and I’ll trust their research over some random people who read astreasweb or some 4chan brony’s concept of tulpamancy.

Also I’ve made posts about this but I’m fully aware that not everyone who is multiple experiences their multiplicity as distressing (especially since the disorder revolves around hiding trauma to allow functioning, wow) so may not feel like they fit the criteria for DID/OSDD in that sense since the criteria was made for the fact that those who needed access to professional help could get diagnosed and treated, BUT, that doesn’t change the fact that you can ONLY be multiple through repeated childhood trauma. And multiplicity is a symptom exclusive to DID/OSDD so you can’t be multiple and not fall into that category even if you may improve to not fit the diagnosis anymore through say therapy.

Where do you guys even get off on the idea that it’s ok to act like victims and throw these sorts of tantrums to just be asked to leave people with DID/OSDD alone and let us have our own spaces. A lot of us wouldn’t care if you didn’t claim our experiences as part of yours or steal our terms yet every time this point is brought up you just... act like this.

Christ.