#None of this is to argue with OP | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

cantstayawaycani · 2 years ago

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I don't normally wade into this type of thing, (in fact Tumblr recommended this post to me like a dozen times before I finally read it) but I have to say, I love a well written argument, that cites sources to support said argument, especially outside of the original media in question. And doubly so when the cited supporting sources are direct quotes from the creators and architects of said media in question. It speaks to intention vs execution.

Shipping is not important. At all.

Well intentioned, well executed character and story is very important. Imperfect media is usually the result, despite intention, because there is no such thing as perfection. But here I find the intention closely matches the execution and the resultant film is, IMO, near-perfect. And that's a testament to Coogler and the skilled creators/artisans he had help him build this world and shape these characters with very specific intention. When people argue about things like "shipping" it seems to me that they often forgo a good faith argument based on something you can reasonably prove, and just go with feelings and perceptions. Which is fine. But let's call a thing a thing.

From this argument, made with supporting evidence cited from such credible sources of information, one thing makes a little more sense than several others. And I feel it's important to acknowledge that.

Sorry, had to nerd out all over this post. This is just a good argument.

Re: Namor x Shuri working from a storytelling standpoint

I stumbled on a post trying to give an analysis of how Namor and Shuri "don't work" from a storytelling standpoint. After reading several of the objectionable points made and realizing I've seen them all before, I felt like trying my own hand to exemplify why these kinds of criticisms against "Nashuri" don't actually work. I didn't directly reblog to avoid being convoluted or dogpiling, but I'll be responding to specific points throughout.

Direct quotes are in orange

Linked sources and further information are in green

Warning: This article has many layers, musings, and points. After all, it's essentially a master collection of material. If you just want to jump to a certain point, you can. There are subtitles for every point.

The Oxymoron of Improbable and "Non-Sensical" Story Writing

In the context of specifically Wakanda Forever's story and nothing else, yes: as of now, Namor and Shuri being a romantic couple does not make "sense."

However, there is no such thing as a ship that doesn't make sense from a story-writing perspective.

With your pen, reality can be shaped according to your whim, or elements can be bent to fit the mold of a given reality. Story-writing-wise, anything can happen, and anything can work with the proper execution. A good writer knows how to suspend the reader's disbelief and make the seemingly improbable, seem probable.

Namor and Shuri already have the ingredients for chemistry and compatibility as characters, which are the two essential requirements in relationships. The media they're in gives you the room to potentially address their circumstance, like reviving Ramonda (coming back to life is no foreign concept to Marvel) or building off of the concepts already there (e.g., the Ancestral Plane or "dead not meaning gone"). There are also AUs.

Saying otherwise is simply putting a cap on your creativity and demonstrates a sheer lack of imagination.

Why Do People Ship Namor And Shuri?

To answer this question, Namor and Shuri:

Have undeniably strong chemistry. That was the first thing that had people question what their relationship would be. You don't have to register this as inherently romantic, but they have chemistry nevertheless.

Deeply connected with and paralleled-equaled one another. Shuri opened up to only Namor about her true grief. With Ramonda, Shuri closed herself off. When her mask cracked, she lamented that if she sat and merely thought of T'Challa, she'd burn the world and everyone in it. The ancestral plane, tethered to her subconscious and emotional state, lit up on fire the moment N'Jadaka mentioned T'Challa. Yet... Shuri felt that she could be emotionally vulnerable to Namor, seeking solace and answers within him. She could not only think of but also talk about T'Challa with Namor. This is after Namor was, in exchange, completely vulnerable and honest to her, showing her his scars and his cherished nation. Both characters did things they wouldn't do with anyone else. They felt seen and heard by the other. That is a beautiful testament to the bond they were forging before uh, yeah.

Shuri was healing in Talokan. It is directly said in the script Shuri was better than she was before she left, but the movie let it be a "show, don't tell." We already established she was finally unveiling her grief to Namor, but Talokan was also an escape for her. Her behavior and attitude were a sheer contrast to how she was earlier in the movie. Shuri was shown beaming, marveling at, and practically glowing as Namor showed her his world. Approximately, she genuinely smiled 11 times in under 3 minutes. She forgot her worries. The tension rolled off of her and let herself go "with the breeze". Her admiration and sense of wonder made him smile too. She was taken care of, a shame that her reason of stay wasn't preferable.

Shared several purposefully intimate moments.

Look hot and are hot together. Argue with a wall.

Can be the strongest, most unstoppable MCU power couple to date.

Create a rich, ethnic, and main poc ship and representation between a black African woman and a brown-skinned indigenous man. That's not common at all, and the thought of their cultures being connected, becoming one through their union is hair-twirling inducing. The idea of them creating a new era filled to the brim with their respective cultures and identities together, with them learning from one another, is very interesting.

They have many, many classic romantic-fantastical tropes poured into the batter that is their dynamic. You may have heard the comparisons to Beauty and The Beast (say thank you, Riri!), Aladdin ("I Can Show You The World"), Peter Pan and Wendy (Namor is deemed of a "Peter Pan" archetype. "Peter Pan" lost his Wendy, who is Shuri in this case. See Inframundo.) and Hades-Persephone.

The only reason why they're on opposite ends is due to outer forces and unfavorable circumstances at work. There's something interesting about their nuanced tragedy. There's a fun intrigue to find a way to "fix" what seems broken beyond repair, through understanding, love, character development, and healing.

Have a romantic anthem: Con La Brisa is a tender love song specifically created based on the underwater scene between Namor and Shuri. Foudequesh revealed that the meaning of the song was showing someone the sun for the first time.

Additionally, Namor and Shuri having romantic chemistry is not baseless. It was initially toyed with. Though they decided to characterize their relationship a bit differently and focus on grief-shared trauma, elements were still left in to give their relationship complexity. The way they relate and the things they did gave romantic undertones you can't just pluck out. Micheal P. Shawver, a colleague of Ryan Coogler and an editor of Wakanda Forever, said this much when asked about the possibility of Namor and Shuri having romance in their cards.

Note how Ryan Coogler, a writer and director of both Black Panther, even apparently thinks that Namor and Shuri are not unsuited for one another even then.

You can also view the original script where Namor is described as "charmed" and "smitten" with Shuri. It's only natural people pick up the pieces purposefully left behind.

Clarification Notes

Before we jump into this, there are things you need to know.

Note 1: None of this is bashing or permission to bash Ramonda, Riri, Shuri, or Nakia. They were justified and operating under grief and dramatic irony if you look at it from every perspective. Currently, this is just clearing up Namor and Talokan's perspectives because that is what's being targetted and unceremoniously characterized, but everyone has a case for them.

Note 2: This doesn't mean you need to ship Shuri and Namor. It's explaining why some do and clearing up misconceptions about their dynamic as well as individual characters. Your takeaway should be this and valueable information on Black Panther, not a decree of what you should or shouldn't ship.

Positive and Negative Chemistry

"Positive" and "negative" chemistry is confusing terminology at best and doesn't exist at worse. It's either you have or lack chemistry. There are also two different kinds of chemistry: platonic and romantic.

When describing how characters wouldn't be compatible in a given relationship, you may be looking for the term, "compatibility".

Chemistry: magnetism, attraction, and natural connection. Compatibility: a more "logical" component: your degree of harmony and cohesiveness.

You can have chemistry without compatibility, and compatibility without chemistry. Healthy and long-lasting relationships have both.

Namor's view of Shuri

Namor does not view Shuri as an equal, despite their similarities.

Pause. Namor does view Shuri as an equal. Shuri is arguably the person he respects the most.

The idea That Namor-Talokan does not relate, respect, connect with, or even view Shuri-Wakanda as human directly goes against the meta-pillar theme of Wakanda Forever.

You said it yourself:

"these are fictional characters (who represent real-world dynamics)"

“We talked to so many experts and really made relationships with them, because there was a lot to go through,” says Beachler. “There are a lot of parallels between Africans and Latin Americans as far as the colonization of their communities and cities, the enslavement of their people, the lies that were told about their culture, the misinterpretation of their words, and the ways they were made out to look demonized in order to elevate a European country.”

Besides honoring Chadwick Boseman, motherhood, and the dead not being gone, grief, trauma, the effects of colonialism, and the connectivity between African-Mesoamerican indigenous culture are central points of the film. Namor and Shuri and by extension Talokan and Wakanda are explicitly supposed to relate and be equal to one another for this reason. You are supposed to struggle with choosing a side, and Namor is a complex antagonist or even anti-hero rather than an actual villain (An antagonist just opposes or challenges the protagonist in the context of the story, they're not inherently good or evil. Villians are inherently evil and with malice.) Their fight is supposed to feel wrong, intimate, and emotionally charged, unlike most generic action hero fights. They are natural allies, and therefore unnatural enemies.

Namor bent in ways he wouldn't have with anyone else.

This is why it's an in-fandom joke that he was whipped or smitten. What he says on his throne when waging "war", was "Máansa'ab u nej miis tin wich." Josué Maychi confirms that this means, "They passed the cat's tail in front of my face with the hope of an alliance."

"If you see cats, jaguars or panthers when they go hunting they wag their tails because it is a way of hypnotizing the prey, then that image is what happened to Namor, that someone did like that with the tail."

Namor virtually said he was hypnotized, but the Spanish and English translations didn't quite convey that cat-involved metaphor (although keeping the crux of his lament.).

Namor could have killed Riri the moment she touched Talokan grounds, but he showed temporary "mercy" because of Shuri and Shuri alone. He didn't need Shuri's permission nor did he have to communicate with Shuri. Riri was in his domain, Shuri did not really have much power there, yet he treated her as if she did.

"It goes back to the point of him never seeing Shuri as human or recognizing her feelings as valid."

Two of Namor's quotes in the movie alone prove this wrong:

"I know you wanted me to spare the life of the scientist (recognizing and acknowledging what she wants), but now you see what I have to protect."

"So you can understand why I need to kill the scientist."

He didn't need to seek her approval or give her the ability to negotiate with him, yet he did and on top of that dressed her in the finest silks fit for royalty, consistently trying to convince Shuri like her opinion mattered, and that he wanted her on his side. It wasn't that he didn't "recognize her feelings as valid," he just felt that, based on how many of their lives are at stake, he couldn't risk it (Movie quote: "I cannot risk that, princess...").

He was absolutely gobsmacked when she said, "Take me instead." He wouldn't speak then, uncharacteristically breaking eye contact. When he could finally speak, he couldn't answer her directly, his voice awkwardly raised an interval and suddenly, unnecessarily, speaking with his hands.

Shuri wanted to see Talokan, and Namor, the pessimistic isolationist who never let a surfacer step foot in Talokan, immediately caved into her desire. There was no reason for him to do that and it demonstrates an immense level of trust. He also, quite literally, showed her the keys to his kingdom. He waited until she was beside him, looked to see if she was watching him, and then did his hand sign in the rock to open the "doors" to Talokan.

As writer Joe Cole said in The Movie Report panel interview, Shuri demands him to make the right choice that was yielding, and he does yield to her, which wasn't something he'd ever consider in his hundreds of years of being alive.

Namor gives his beloved mother's bracelet to Shuri

Fen was Namor's beloved mother. Her memory is something he held dear to him. The bracelet he gave not only was the last piece of her left with him, but it directly signified his birthright as king, was a priceless national object, and was made with their sacred plant's fibers.

He gives it to Shuri twice. One immediately to hold when he sees she's attracted to it, two he ties on her (after receiving her non-verbal permission, another sign of respect) for her keeping as a "gift of gratitude."

Namor saw his mother in Shuri

Namor saw his mother in her highest state, induced by Shuri. She was unchanged, young, and in their homes, outstretching a hand to him as Shuri metaphorically did.

Namor paints the mural of their fight

in his personal hut no less, where he preserves their history and culture. He paints them entangled in a battle with neither side besting the other. She is the Jaguar-Black Panther, a revered, highly respected animal in Maya culture with connections to godhood, and he is a mere human, humbling himself in a sense. That speaks volumes, and it's furthered when he tells Namora that Shuri had every single reason to kill him. He also speaks very highly of her, stating she's the strongest person on the surface, of the strongest nation.

None of this makes sense AT ALL if he supposedly did not view Shuri as a respected equal, let alone "human." If he somehow doesn't see her as a "human", then he sees her as higher than.

Talokan's "Violence" to Wakanda's "Pacifism"

"Namor and the Talokanil, immediately resort to violence and war when they feel a threat from the surface world. But since no one knows they exist, this threat is hypothetical for now."

This is not true. Talokan has constantly been evasive with relocating being their immediate resort. In the film, Namor says, "Talokan will not move, again" for a reason. They didn't "feel" a threat, there was a threat. People found the Vibranium within their domain and were drilling to seize it. War was a later development after Shuri took killing Riri off the table, which is what Namor initially wanted to do (in the script, this is furthered, with him saying he'd prefer picking off one person to outright war.).

"A direct contrast to Ramonda and Shuri, who in the face of real eminent threats, resorted to peace and showed their aggressors mercy."

Ignoring the insinuation that Namor was not faced with real eminent threats when he was, there is a reason for that contrast. Remember that while Wakanda was being threatened, they have never been conquered or forced to move. They're confirmed less vulnerable than Talokan, who does not have shields and lives in the ocean. They can afford to reveal themselves. Talokan cannot, and they're collateral damage to Wakanda's choice of revealing themselves and the power of Vibranium to the world.

The beginning village of Talokan has been conquered and mass murdered before the rebirth into the blue people we see now, with their ancestral lands plundered and made into slave houses. Namor almost died and was sick in the womb because the conquistadors brought smallpox. His father who he never met died due to their disease. He witnessed countless treacheries, betrayals, and wars from the surface lands. Namor spent his entire childhood watching his mother grieve due to them. As a result, Talokan has a more pessimistic perspective compared to Wakanda's privileged optimistic one.

So yeah, Talokan isn't going to play patty cake with their active aggressors who are trying to plunder them. Nor should they, because Namor is proven right with America actively seeking to destabilize Wakanda under the guise of retrieving Riri (see the meeting Ross has with government officials), and the ending with Val.

Wakanda wants to delay inevitable war and minimize the loss across the board but will go to war if pushed, which is fair. Talokan is tired and ready to give the smoke, striking fast and hard to merely end what threatens them once and for all after centuries of patience and displacement. That is also fair.

"Namor, despite wanting Wakanda’s help with his mission, ultimately doesn’t view Wakanda with anymore sympathy than he does the rest of the world. He has made it clear that he hates the surface world and everyone in it, which includes the Wakandans."

You're right, he doesn't sympathize with Wakanda. There's nothing to sympathize with. He empathizes with them, a stronger feeling and sense of connection than sympathy. He admires Wakanda and feels a sense of kinship, maybe a bit of jealousy (Joe Cole). To him, Wakanda was a threat if they weren't on his side. Why?

A) Wakanda (unintentionally) compromised them by revealing themselves to the world and the power of Vibranium. Now everyone else, armed with that dangerous knowledge, is looking for it to wield it. Wakanda can more or less protect their Vibranium, claiming ownership of it when it's on their lands, they have the power to, and they're the ones who revealed it. But what can Talokan do? They'd be forcefully revealed in some way and be subjected to attacks just because they dared to also have Vibranium.

B) Wakanda is compromising them again by harboring Riri, who is the one source capable of the machine the FBI is currently chasing down. There is no guarantee Riri would stay with them (Riri is not their citizen, and America can easily use her as a means to undercut Wakanda and force them to either give vibranium or fork Riri over, so she can build the machine, and they'll get vibranium anyway through Talokan) or wouldn't rebuild her machine. The solutions Namor could fathom were either taking Riri out of the equation for sure (a case of killing one person and saving everyone else) or taking out the threat of those who seek to exploit her.

C) Wakanda was already shaking hands with nations that wanted to destabilize and plunder them, and will want to do the same with Talokan.

D) Wakanda is the only nation that can rival them that now also knows of their existence. If they're not allies with that information, that's dangerous and makes Talokan vulnerable.

With all things considered and understandably from Namor's perspective, there's no "in-between" here. You can't be "neutral." You either are with them or facilitate your own and their destruction.

This doesn't mean he hates Wakanda or Shuri. It is nothing he wants, but something he perceives he has to do for his people, as their protector, father, god, and king. In the script, this is only further exemplified, by his, "I don’t want it to come to this. But I will not hesitate."

Namor Killing Ramonda

His line of "You are queen now" showed that he was never willing to conduct business with Ramonda likely because she was the only person on the surface world who bested him when she lured him out of Talokan(...). He was simply looking for an excuse to get her out of the picture."

At that point, Ramonda threatened to reveal Talokan. Ramonda purposefully played decoy with him and sent in a war dog to infiltrate their nation and retrieve not only their national threat but the princess who has all of their secrets without a sense of closure. The result of this act was the death of two of his "children". Did you just gloss over that fact, because Ramonda didn't just "lure" him away? He wasn't throwing a fit because he was bested. People literally died? He was cradling a dying child in his arms?

Namor was "willing" to conduct business with Ramonda, proven by the simple fact that he approached Ramonda and gave her the shell to contact him. Namor went out to answer Ramonda's call in the first place when he could've just ignored it when he had what he wanted and more in Talokan.

Namor saying "You're queen now" doesn't at all connect to him not seeing Shuri as an equal. That doesn't make any sense. If anything that undermines your point, because before Shuri is officially crowned, he immediately sees her as the sovereign leader, much like himself.

He says "you're queen now" because Shuri is likely the queen now. It's simple math: Shuri is the heir apparent. There's no royal before her now that is leading.

"It's also another reason why he killed Ramonda with no hesitation despite knowing what he knew about Shuri"

Again, Namor did what he did with no hesitation or care if Ramonda is collateral damage because in his eyes, Ramonda betrayed him, he was acting as a vehicle of vengeance for two souls, and he was defending Talokan. When she stepped in front of Riri glaring him down, that was his final nail in the coffin (no pun intended, please, no pun intended.). It was never personal to him nor did he look at it as him killing Shuri's mom. He was playing the role of a protector and king in conflict with another royal, but of course, it's inherently personal to Shuri because that royal happens to be her mother.

Ryan Coogler confirmed it was not personal for him in the Disney+ movie commentary, Tenoch Huerta says killing the queen was never in his initial plans, and Namor says this himself in the script, explaining he did what he did because the queen "betrayed" him with not only a guard, but a child dying as a result when Shuri was never in danger ("you were safe in my care").

Recklessness With Grief

No, Shuri did not have a better handle on how she externalizes her grief until the final of the movie.

"She recognizes that even though she is angry at T’Challa’s death, the rest of the world doesn’t deserve to feel the extent of her wrath."

That's not at all what she recognized at any point. "It will not be these clothes, I'll burn. It will be the world. And everyone in it."

"Even when Namor does kill her mother, she rightfully directs her anger at him."

At the expense of her people's safety and risk of eternal war. She tells M'Baku straight up that nothing else matters except what she wants, and she wants Namor dead. She threateningly pointed a finger, giving M'Baku no choice and leaving him with the command to help her in her endeavors, even if it meant sending them all to their watery graves.

Nakia: "If you go to war for vengeance, it will not fill the hole left from your loss. It will only grow larger, and it will consume you!"

Shuri: "It already has."

With every blow she landed and exchanged with Namor, we cut back to Wakanda receiving blows and being backed up into a corner.

Namor and Shuri were on collision courses where they were destroying themselves, each other, and their people by not handling their grief properly, being consumed by their vengeance, and committing destructive actions ignited by their pain.

Shuri just later had the strength to break that cycle by recognizing what he said to her back in Talokan ("broken leaders"), their connectivity, and shared traumas. She saved them both and quietened Namor's own flames in the process.

"Sure, she has some outbursts at Nakia and M’baku, but she never really alienates them."

Do not downplay the fact that Shuri is dangerous and was not healthily dealing with her grief, but instead was on a path of destruction. Ryan explicitly states that Namor shares this with Shuri: they're both trying to process and similarly struggle grappling with their grief.

Why else do you think Ramonda took Shuri outside to touch grass and do a ritual? Shuri was not ok. From the moment her beloved brother died, she was not ok. She was not magnanimous to the world. She was angry at it. She thought that there was no point in the Black Panther mantle or herb when T'Challa isn't there. As M'Baku even pointed out, she buried herself in her technology as a coping mechanism, which she ought to stop.

Shuri does alienate Nakia. Not only does she snap several times and harshly shove Nakia off of her after she took the herb, but it's also shown at the beginning of the movie she's ignoring all of her calls. In the script, she explicitly considers Nakia dead, immensely angry she missed T'Challa's funeral.

She doesn't listen to M'baku, but consistently tries to push him and his wisdom away during Ramonda's funeral. She even pushed away and tried closing herself off with Ramonda in the lab and river scene.

Namor's Desire

"All he wanted to do was push her to the extremes of grief so she would become reckless as she was."

Namor's true desire was safety for his people. He didn't want to move again or have to change who they are to survive. Namor later had a genuine desire for an alliance with Wakanda, a nation he canonically admires. Namor didn't want to "push her to the extremes of grief to become like him" because she already was like him. He just wanted to channel their shared feelings of reaping "destruction" to the common enemy.

“I think that a lot of the emotion that I was trying to put into it [Talokan] was this idea that Namor is not wanting to move his people again,” says Beachler. “So there is also, this sense of grieving, even there, of this idea of being encroached upon by humans, who are somewhat inconsiderate of them.”

"Instead you see a mutant emerging not out of genetics, but out of the crucible of oppression. Whereas mutants in the comics are born, in Wakanda Forever, they are made. And that history isn't the side story, it's the entire story. It explains Namor's rage, his desperation, and the path he takes which eventually leads to a collision with Wakanda."

It was never a case of Namor only loving and can love his people while hating everyone else, seeing them as inhuman. Namor was prioritizing what he loved the most above what he may also like, admire, or empathize with. He was fulfilling the role given to him he was forced to take from the moment he was born.

"I mean, “no love” is literally his name."

Let's slow down a bit and mayhaps rethink a little on using the meaning of his alias "Namor" as a point about him being loveless, no? That was a "name" given to him by a racist, slave-owning Conquistador priest who also called him, "son of satan" all the while he was burying his mother, the only and last immediate family he had. Namor took that alias to empower himself and take away the sting. He clearly does have love when all of his life he has been a selfless agent for his people. He thought a single or two lives were worth war over. Yes, he explicitly said it was to convey he had "no love" for the surface, but there is context to that.

"Wanting to destroy the whole world, funny enough, including other Mayan descendants who were enslaved or colonized"

When Namor burned down the Hacienda, slaves ran free. Only the Consquisdators were killed. The village elder relayed that they know of Namor's existence and were able to live with that knowledge. The only ones who died were the ones who sought him out with ill intent. The script also featured the factoid of Namor saving the elder and her husband from drowning on their wedding night, if that's worth anything. In the movie, he doesn't want to include Wakanda in the mix of the nations they're at war with either.

Clearly, he is discriminatory with who he'd kill. Who said he'd include Mayan descendants that were enslaved and colonized? The last time I checked, the only person who said anything about burning everyone was Shuri.

Namor: "It is no longer about the scientist. For centuries, the surface nations have conquered and enslaved people like us. Over resources. Since the day I buried my mother, I have prepared my people for the time they would come for us. And that machine? Is the sign that the time is now. I need to know if Wakanda is an ally, or an enemy. There is no in-between."

Shuri: "So you plan to wage war on the entire world, and want Wakanda to help you?"

Namor: [leans in and nods slightly]

Shuri: "That's madness!"

Namor: "There isn't a nation that wouldn't plunder Wakanda if given a chance. If we make an alliance, we can protect each other by striking them first. Then, when the threat of these nations have been eliminated, the scientist will be returned to Wakanda."

Namor wanting to remove the teeth from the lion's mouth and hitting first isn't the same thing as destroying everything and anything. Mind you, he is being chaotic, but he clearly has a concentrated target. Don't get it twisted.

Namor's Regret

It is suggested that Namor in particular felt regret and dislike for the situation in interviews, script, and in-film.

A) Namor is seen pensively on his throne, touching and cradling the shell phone as he awaits contact.

B) Namor's, "It could've been different."

C) Interestingly, Ryan and Joe Cole corroborated in The Movie Report panel interview, more regret was in every blow exchanged. Namor in particular did not want to exchange a fatal blow until he was pushed to impale Shuri on the rock in a desperate attempt to his life.

Equaling and Relating

Relating to someone is different from equalling someone. Out of all who were listed, whether it was Peter Parker, Riri Williams, or Namor, Namor is the only one out of those that is explicitly and purposefully depicted as equalling and relating to Shuri.

Namor And Shuri

The reasoning given for how Shuri works paired with Peter Parker or Riri Williams strongly applies to Shuri with Namor, so operating under the same logic, they largely work too.

"What makes both of these pairings work to a degree is the idea of them being equal in some regard(...) They clearly see each other as equal. They more or less agree on a common enemy and how to deal with said enemy, with morals and values that more or less align."

They do agree on a common enemy. That's literally half of the premise for Namor proposing an alliance where they protect one another. The problem just was how they go about handling things. Tragedy, trauma, and dramatic irony unfavorably played factors.

Otherwise, they're practically the same, and are now on the "same page". Their morals and values aren't far off either. Wakanda and Talokan are eerily similar, whether it be in having spying channels, an isolationistic approach, finding jurisdiction wherever they feel it (aka, if it regards and threatens them), only wanting to protect what they love, embracing-involving their culture-traditions, being environmentalists, and using defensive-offensive means if provoked by a perceived threat.

In visuals alone, they took great care to portray Shuri and Namor as Parallel Characters.

The "boy without love" and the "child who scoffs at tradition." They do have a few healthy differences (I'll save that for another article), but they are equal and deeply relate.

As said on The Movie Report panel interview, Shuri became the Panther god (the Black Panther is canonically Bast's avatar), while he is the god of his civilization. They're both royals and leaders of their own nations. Said nations are sister nations, both having the power of vibranium and the highest levels of advancement. They are both broken and with a shared trauma etched deep in their hearts. They both have a righteous, divine fire and an acute sense of avenging. They both were haunted by similar grief and pain that pushed them to seek solace in one another.

Namor is described as lonely and with loneliness by Ryan Coogler, and that's exactly how Shuri felt in the beginning as well (see her Interlude), and unfortunately, later in the movie after Ramonda "dies" (but in the end, it's revealed that Ramonda, like T'Challa, is not gone.). They brought innovative technology and a new era of living to their people. They share the same love languages: acts of service and gifts.

There was an entire montage near the end of the film showcasing this.

Riri Williams

Riri Williams relates to Shuri in a sense of being young black women whose intelligence and talents aren't always respected by their elders. They can also relate to their fathers being murdered (if they take a page out of comics for Riri, see Ironheart #9) or the loved ones that taught them what they know being ripped away from them. Maybe they also know about diffusion too as geeks, but it stops there.

Riri, like Peter, is a teenager (19 years old) new to college (the same college Okoye states is the equivalent of a Wakandan elementary school), trying to grapple with her emerging life and school. Shuri is a princess of the most powerful nation and head of Wakandan Technology. She completed the journey of school and became a college assistant at the age of 13. Wakanda Forever was Riri's debut and entry into the game. Wakanda Forever was Shuri, who is already a non-teenaged adult at this point, journeying through her womanhood and immense grief. Shuri is not new to the game, having been in countless wars and accumulated countless experiences Riri has yet to touch.

Throughout the film, Shuri acted as the voice Riri didn't have that Namor would hear, largely due to T'Challa's influence. At the end of the film, Riri invites Shuri to a basketball game. Shuri says no, prioritizing her duties and having a full plate compared to Riri's less uncomplicated, lighthearted one. This alone highlights their differences in placement and mental space.

Big sisters do not "equal" their younger siblings. They guide and protect, having some level of authority and experience over them.

And That's Perfectly By Design

Riri and Shuri are not equals and have noticeable divergences where one cannot ever relate to or feel what the other does. Shuri won't know how Riri feels the need to prove herself as a black woman in a society where black people, black women, are given the shorter end of the stick. Shuri doesn't know anything about how it is for African Americans and law enforcement. Riri won't know the privileges or how it feels like to carry the burdens Shuri does to the extent she does. Riri does not entirely relate to Shuri's grief either. Riri was a fish out of water who constantly wanted to go home despite the beauty and safety in Wakanda. They belong to two different worlds.

It is great that they have these differences because, in the words of Dominque Thorne, they can learn from each other. Their relationship in the film is contextualized as Shuri perceiving Riri as her reflection and then taking on a mentor role. Riri is, in Letitia's words, a reflection of T'Challa's choice. There are several parallels between Riri-Shuri and T'Challa-Shuri. It gives Shuri more of a personal incentive and investment in the outreach program her brother enacted. T'Challa had the connection, learning experience, and realization of the Lost Tribe and their struggles through N'Jadaka. Shuri now has that with Riri, but positively! Riri also can offer a breath of fresh air every now and again, fulfilling the chemistry she had (bubbly, plucky younger one) with T'Challa (the more composed, older, responsible one).

Whether you want to mold and configure this into a romantic dynamic, is up to you. The point is that yes they relate, yes they do have chemistry, but no, Riri and Shuri aren't equals.

Peter Parker

Hypothetically, Peter relates to Shuri in their intelligence (although I'd argue Shuri is smarter, Shuri's probably smarter than everyone), but that doesn't at all suggest they'd have the same interests. It doesn't work like that.

Peter (2001 baby) is younger than Shuri (1997-1998). He is just starting college. Shuri is around 22, 23 years old due to the snap. She was 19, 20 in Infinity War. Peter was 16. It's not a big age gap, but I wouldn't say they're peers. Age proximity doesn't indicate relatability either, especially if the maturity levels and experiences differ.

However, I will say, I think Peter and Shuri can relate to being orphans that do feel lonely (although Shuri lost and later gained family, Peter is left off completely alone), going through personal dark arcs, and suffering immense pain that changes the trajectory of their lives. They used to be more lighthearted, but now were forced to grow up and their perspectives darkened.

That's about it though. They aren't on the same wavelength or of the same caliber when it comes to their types of threats, challenges, and predicaments. Namor could entirely relate with her being another nation of vibranium of a culture the other nations seek to destabilize, destroy, or conquer, as well as someone with a similar depth and sense of grief. Riri could relate as a black woman living in America (lost tribe) who'd know a thing or two about persecution and was thrown into the mix between the Talokan-Wakanda conflict. Peter?

This isn't factoring in their standings either, with Shuri being an heir apparent and leader of the strongest nation on the surface with Peter being "your friendly (and now depressed) neighborhood Spiderman" that occasionally gets thrown outside his payroll.

Peter and Shuri can probably relate and it's easy to assume they'd have chemistry and may do a little chemistry together. But they do not equal either.

In Conclusion

Yes, ship and let ship. These are all great fictional characters with compelling dynamics. Shipping is largely for fun and often depends on the person's taste.

Looking at this from a perspective of a writer and storyteller, there's no such thing as it "not" working or "making sense" unless you have, excuse my language, shit and uninspiring writing.

#q'ing likes #nashuri #shuri x namor #a good argument #i did read that other post #raised an eyebrow #then moved on #as op said ship who you want #my nerdy little heart just actually really appreciates this breakdown #because you essentially have here a re-statement of the intentions for character and story from the minds and mouths of the creators #trust ryan coogler #trust hannah beachler #trust the experts they hired to mold and shape the thing with their expertise #for one because the BP stories are arguably the best told and best made in the mcu entirely #the bp films are the only ones with enough critical clout to be recognized outside of nerd circles as an excellent piece of art #ryan knows what he's doing #ignoring who you choose to ship from a story and character pov there was very specific intention here #it's OK if you want to perceive things differently to suit your own preferences #but let's call a thing a thing #and let's respect the creator's intentions #hell my favorite ship is attoye and we can't feasibly argue that that was intentional from the creator's pov #but that doesn't matter in fandom ultimately #that's the point of shipping #so turning it into an argument about what makes sense kind of doesn't make sense #because it's fandom #none of it makes sense over here buddy #and NO i am not saying ryan intended for us to ship nashuri that's rediculous #i'm saying ryan intended for these two characters to make sense as characters who compliment and support each other's arcs #they make sense in any way you choose to categorize as two sides of the same coin by design #that's all

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hirsheyskisses · 1 year ago

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OP Boys: Special Hugs (02)

Law & Ace

(Short Scenario)

Trafalgar D. Water Law

♡ Another case of, seriously not the touchy type.

♡ the most physical contact he gives most people his brushing shoulders when moving past them on the submarine, and even that's rare seeing how careful he is.

♡ however, with careful comes attentiveness, and with attentiveness comes him noticing how strange you've been acting.

♡ the skip in your step slowly fading, your feet dragging, the diminished eating during mealtime, the bags forming under your eyes

♡ yeah, he noticed

♡ could this oh so possibly be because he actually liked your energy and missed it?

♡ of course not (it obviously is)

"Room."

"Shambles."

One moment, you were inching past him in the halls, the next you found yourself standing besides a bed. A bed that wasn't your own, with none other than the Captain facing you.

"We need to talk, and you're not leaving this room until we do. So sit."

He growled, and you laughed nervously, deciding it was better to listen than argue, so you sat.

"What's the problem, Captain?"

"You. You clearly have a problem."

Ow. Blunt as always.

"...will lying save me from this?"

He lifted an eyebrow, clearly not amused as he sat beside you, shaking his head in clear disbelief. "I have nothing against keeping you locked in here until you spit it out. Whatever wrong is clearly affecting your performance on the sub, which could in turn affect the entire crew."

Law's words came off harsher than he intended, he regretted the words the instant they left his mouth. Watching you shy away and shrink closer to the wall, he pinched the bridge of his nose.

"Sorry, Cap'n.. I can sort it out myself." You moved to stand up, angling your head away. But you weren't near as sly as you thought you were, he saw those tears pricking at your eyes.

So Law snatched your arm and pulled you back down, and into his side. "There's no need to do it yourself when I'm offering help."

"Don't wanna be a bother, it's not a big deal."

"Wouldn't have offered if it was a bother, and it's clearly a deal to you. I'm here for you."

If him saying that wasn't enough, he placed a comforting hand on the small of your back. It was like the dam broke, tears flowing down your face and you buried your face into his chest.

Well, shit. He wasn't expecting that-

He awkwardly placed an arm around you, holding you close to him, letting you cry. His tattooed hands rubbed circles into your back, sides, and shoulders, occasionally reminding you to breathe. He stared down at you, unsure of what to say.

You must've been there for forever before your tears subsided, and for the time, you threw away the Captain and Subordinate dynamic. And Law allowed it. Right now, he was a trusted friend.

Snuggling up closer to him, Law gently rearranged the two of you so you were laying, his legs wrapped sound yours, head buried into your hair, your arms wrapped around his torso.

No further words were spoken that night. You may have been the obvious one getting comfort but.. Law made a mental note to do this again, from time to time.

Portgas D. Ace

♤ Ace may be a bit wary of hugs at first. He may be friendly, but he's not that friendly.

♤ But when Whitbeard kept sending you on duo missions with him, Ace grew to be absolutely in LOVE with you

♤ not that he'd ever show that.. seeing as he doesn't believe himself worthy of love..

♤ doesn't mean he isn't (wholesomely) touchy, however

♤ grabs your shoulder a lot, your ha d when his tipsy and bold, playfully bumps into you

♤ a lot

"Ace.. you've been awfully quiet. And you're staring again."

Your voice seemed to bring him out of a trance, and Ace quickly broke off into- a rather forced laugh. "Just- enjoying the view!"

"Oh? How romantic."

You teased, watching your freckled friend redden to his ears. "The- THE VIEW BEHIND YOU. idiot!"

"You're going to sit here and tell me a wall is more interesting than me?"

You caught him, watching his mouth open and close as he attempted to think of a defense. After a moment, Ace gave in, huffing like a child, crossing his arms and turning his head away.

"You're gonna have to look at me at some point. We're gonna be at the island in two days, we can't have you brooding about!"

"I am not brooding."

"You're pouting. It's close enough. Now talk. Or else."

"I am not pouting!"

You sighed, inching closer to Ace. The ship was small, and so was the indoors."hey.. what are you doing?" "Well if you're not gonna talk, I'm gonna have to.."

"Tickle it out of you."

You finished with a menacing grin, watching Ace immediately liven as he shot up, raising his hands. "Don't you DARE-" "Oh I dare."

You threw yourself at him. Ace didn't even have time to defend himself before you launched your attack. Your hands were everywhere at once, tickling his side, arms, neck. He couldn't hold back his laughter, desperately pawing at your arms,

"Pl-puh-lease- AAA- y-you devil!" He managed between fits of laughter, backing himself up, with you following, "I warned you! This'll end if ya just talk!"

"N-never!"

Ace yelled defiantly, his knees hitting the bed, and fell backwards. You were on him in an instant, straddling his waist, the grin on your face having yet to fade.

"One more chance. Talk."

"...TAKE THIS-"

Ace shot up, arms wrapping around you. He was just as fast as you, having you pinned underneath his body, chest heaving.

For a few moments, you both remained still, chests heaving, before a shadow fell over Ace's eyes.

"..'m not good enough. You're too good to me."

"Huh? ...Ace, what are you on about?"

"You heard me! You're always there to catch my ass when I inevitably mess up. I.. I'm so grateful to you, but i hate myself.. for never being able to return the favor."

"Ace.." You whispered, watching a tear roll down his cheek. Freeing an arm, you leaned up, wrapping your now free arm around him and pulling him close.

"You're amazing, Ace."

"You've been an amazing light.. you've saved my life more times than I can count.

"So don't ever think.. to you're not enough. You're my Ace."

You whispered into his ear, and you could feel it: tears now running freely as he pressed himself closer, hat resting at an odd angle on his head. Ace's body was heating up, though not to a dangerous point.

That night, you held onto Ace. Held him in your arms, whispering sweet reassurances into his ear. His tears soon turned into soft snores, and.. now that he knew he was allowed to, he'd be in your arms every chance he gets.

#trafalgar law x reader #portgas ace x reader #trafalgar law #one piece x reader #one piece #law x reader #ace x reader #portgas d ace x reader

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ghcstao3 · 1 year ago

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ghost goes missing during a mission, almost gone entirely without a trace. the 141 spends days, weeks, months looking for him, any sign of him, but they come up with nothing. eventually, they can do nothing but mourn as ghost is declared kia—for real, this time.

two years later, and the 141 is on an op that involves infiltrating a fighting ring in order to take down a particularly troublesome crime boss. part of this operation—while gaz and price go in more discreetly—involves soap entering the ring himself as a fighter, as a distraction. to create uproar as a newbie, because while these people fight dirty, none of them are as trained as he is otherwise.

price tries to fight soap being the one to go in—but having grown bitter since ghost’s disappearance, soap insists, argues to be put in. he’s got nothing to lose.

soap isn’t anxious getting shoved into the ring like he thought he’d be. blood already stains the floor beneath his naked feet, but soap hardly pays it any mind. he just readies his stance as his opponent’s name is announced, and a man much larger, and much more scarred than soap is pushed in.

imagine soap’s surprise, when the man’s mask and muzzle are removed, and his opponent is revealed to be none other than his missing lieutenant.

before soap can say or do anything, and without even a flash of recognition in a cold, hard, too-familiar gaze—the fight begins.

soap prays that gaz and price can make quick work.

#simon ghost riley #john soap mactavish #soapghost #ghostsoap #ghost x soap #ghoap #task force 141

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demon-of-the-ancient-world · 2 months ago

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Dune dashboard simulator

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🤖justice-4-machines Follow

friendly reminder that the butlerian jihad was an atrocity and violation of human rights :))

🌌spice-snorter2828 Follow

Tell me you know nothing about the Butlerian Jihad without telling me you know nothing about the Butlerian Jihad

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🤴imperial-bussy Follow

I know I know eat the rich and all that but have you SEEN Shaddam IV in his 20s????? we didn't stand a chance

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🐛shai-hulud-bignaturals Follow

🌏idont-likesand Follow

...fellas is it time for a second butlerian jihad yet?

🤺weirding-gay Follow

I'm crying didn't he literally purge his 30th planet TODAY?? you're sick

🦠 gaydi-prime-ribs Follow

ppl saying kill as if they could even if they tried lmao

🏜 treading-rhythmically Follow

"people are choosing fuck when he doesn't even fuck his own wife??? as if" skill issue. im here & im pegging him.

🧿realwormrider Follow

Okay in all seriousness this is fucked up. I know people cope in different ways but he is LITERALLY a dictator and a colonizer. People like you who make light of that is the REASON SHIT LIKE THIS HAPPENS!!! Maybe YOU haven't suffered at the hands of his holy war yet but ffs have some compassion for those who have

🏜 treading-rhythmically Follow

or you could just...block the emperor muad'dib tag?? the best you can do in times like these is curate your own life to the best of your abilities my dude

🧿realwormrider Follow

Or OTHER PEOPLE could just NOT SEXUALIZE DICTATORS!!!! Also - what about the WOMEN in his life who are currently also suffering because of him??? no love for them I see??

🏜 treading-rhythmically Follow

ok im gonna sexualize him though

🐛shai-hulud-bignaturals Follow

@/realwormrider make your own post why don't you

🏄‍♂️surfin-thedunes Follow

@/realwormrider wants to fuck him so bad it makes them look stupid

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💧freminomenon Follow

Sigh. some idiot brought a fucking shield into the Sietch. time to evacuate while a motherfucking grandfather of a worm demolishes it ig.

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🍝sandworm-spaghetti Follow

*reminds a kindergartener to use their indoor voice but they're the kwizatz haderach and use their Indoor Voice From The Outer World to yeet my ass into the maw of the Maker*

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🎆arena_girllll Follow

Once again because apparently this HAS to be said: REGULAR FETISH GEAR IS *NOT* GEIDI PRIME APPROPRIATION!!!! There is a world of difference between our traditional clothing and bondage stuff. I'd argue that insinuating they're the same thing or even similar is far worse. If you want proper examples of GP clothing my ask box is open, if you're going to "defend" a culture from appropriation get your facts from someone WITHIN THAT CULTURE for fucks sake

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��tleilaxu-catgirl-meow Follow

Heard Thufir Hawat had to milk a cat to get the poison out of his body...not to be That Girl but hmmm could've milked me instead and I wouldn't be mad

👽simpin4sandworms Follow

Where's that guy who calls for a second Butlerian Jihad on cursed horny posts?

🐮tired-ass-bullfighter Follow

hate to break it to you op but i'm pretty sure this didn't happen and is actually just harkonen propaganda

not saying it couldn't happen though live your dreams

🌵bless-themaker-bless-hiswater Follow

by the Mahdi you people are dogs. i will reblog as usual.

🪐ix-the-tenth Follow

none of these words are in the oc bible

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🐀muaddib-did-nothing-wrong Follow

PAUL ATREIDES IS LITEARLLY DISABLED YOU GUYS!!! I CAN'T STOP YOU HATING ON HIM BUT ABELIST "JOKES" HAVE NO PLACE HERE!!!!!

🌺settler-of-kaitan Follow

...since when tf is he disabled

✋i-must-fear Follow

He literally has??? no eyes????

🌺settler-of-kaitan Follow

Ok but he can still see though

✨not-a-fedaykin Follow

sigh. not me being the one to explain AGAIN that his oracular vision is a disability aid, not something that erases it entirely. from what I understand he sees a couple seconds into the future by use of prescience, it's not the same thing as Actual Sight. (not a supporter, just someone with an unfortunate hyperfixation)

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🏞 caladan-fake-news Follow

Shame Paul Mudad'dib Atreides became a Spice-addicted despot bc I bet he would've made some sick podcasts if given the chance

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☢️blessthecumming&goingofhim Follow

THE MUDAD'DIB WAS AN IMPORTANT FREMEN SYMBOL *LONG BEFORE* YOU-KNOW-WHO . ME HAVING A MOUSE TATTOO DOES *NOT* MAKE ME A SUPPORTER OF P*** A****** OR HIS GOVERNMENT. I HATE ALL OF YOU.

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🪰 melange-maxxing Follow

soooooo apparently there's a stone burner on arrakis now :) if I don't post for a while its bc i'm on the waitlist for tleilaxu eyes fyi

💧freminomenon Follow

this post is 8 months old should we be worried?

✨not-a-fedaykin Follow

Not true op. pls stop spreading incorrect information without a source, you're no better than the people who claim they brought back duncan idaho

🌴fear-is-the-dick-killer Follow

ummmmmm they literally did bring Duncan Idaho back???? don't claim information is false when YOU haven't done your research maybe???

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♟real-harkonnens-dni Follow

Guys....I know I said I wouldn't do rpf but the new transcript of the conversation before Paul's ascension that just came out??? I'm tempted to jump on the threesome train and write Shaddam/Paul/Feyd-Rautha it's actually destroying my sleep schedule.

In this translation the term Shaddam uses to describe Leto I COULD translate to "honorable" but some say it COULD translate to something closer to "beloved"????????? I'm???

So it got me thinking...if..you know...he and Leto I....what would he think of Paul, his only living descendent? (and don't come at me with the "he's underage stuff", HE WAS 18) ahhhhhhh idk maybe I'm too deep into this but I wanna see the 3 of them together so badly 😭😭

♟real-harkonnens-dni Follow

OKAY OKAY I DID IT! I GAVE IN

Last Drop of Blood

Shaddam IV/ Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen/ Paul Atreides, 9K, Rated E [WILL CROSS POST TO AO3 LATER]

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🧿realwormrider Follow

@/shai-hulud-bignaturals told me to "make my own post" so here it is 🙃

Fuck, Marry, Kill: Irulan Corrino

(answer in tags bc my polls option got fucked)

👾shy-hulud Follow

your polls option getting fucked was a sign for you not to make this post

🌆lurkin-inthe-blackgoo Follow

Lmaooooooo as if she's any better she's the daughter of one emperor and wife to another. idc how much she's "suffered" by being married to mudad'dib she's still immensely privileged and a fellow colonizer. you are not morally superior for being horny about her instead of her husband lolllll

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🧠spice-sexual Follow

kinda want to fuck a guild navigator who's stopping me

💋tleilaxu-catgirl-meow Follow

^^^

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🧿realwormrider Follow

You thought this was fucking over?

Her Desires

Irulan Corrino x Reader, 12K

♟real-harkonnens-dni Follow

Omg

I'm in tears of ???? joy???

literally my hands are shaking you never miss op 🥵

#dune #dune funnees #dune memes #got a last minute's panic that some of these face urls would resemble real ones... oh well #i know feydpaul shippers would absolutely still exist in universe only difference is they'd be writing rpf

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as-is-above-so-below · 2 years ago

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The Captain - Simon Riley x Sniper!Reader, Wife!Reader

Part 6: Darling

summary: Ghost’s sniper wife (reader) joins Task Force 141 on an op, against his wishes call sign: Freyja warning: implied sexual content, MDNI Note: PART 6 HAS ARRIVED! Thank you for all of your support! A special thank you to @lethalchiralium and @peachesofteal for workshopping with me, per usual, and being my beta! Enjoy and blessed be! (p.s. ghost drinking an orange sodie lol) << Previous | Next >>

Simon could hear his daughter’s screams as he came up the walkway to their front door, duffel slung over his shoulder. He had returned from a month-long deployment an hour ago and only allowed himself enough time to debrief and return his weapons once on base before hopping in his car and heading home.

He entered the house, still in full gear (mask and all), to find his heavily pregnant wife pacing the living room, their crying daughter in her arms. Her eyes and cheeks were red when she turned to the door, sobbing in relief at the sight of him.

“Oh, sweetheart. What’s going on?” he asked, dropping his bag by the door and going to her.

“She has a-a cold.”

“I can see that.” He wiped at the snot and drool on Joanie’s lip with his glove. “Where’s Roach?”

“He went to pick König up. You didn’t see him?”

“No. Must’ve just missed ‘im.” When Price handed out assignments for their most recent deployment, Roach had offered (more like decided) to stay with Freyja for the duration of his absence. With König also deployed, it made sense for him to help her with the baby and housekeeping while Simon was gone. Better than staying on base – alone – for a month. Knowing someone was in the house with his family made him feel better about leaving for such an extended period, especially with his track record. The last time he had left the country, leaving his pregnant spouse behind…

Simon rubbed his daughter’s back, his heartstrings tugging at the thought of her being in pain. “Give ’er here, I’ll take a turn.”

“Si, no, you must be exhausted-”

“I am exhausted, which means I’m in no mood to argue. Go to bed, love, please.”

His pleading didn’t seem to affect her as she went back to doing laps around the couch. “The doctor said there’s nothing we can do. It just has to pass. I’ve tried everything. Chest salve, shower steam, saline – nothing’s working. Every-Every time we put her down or sit down, the screaming just gets worse. Can’t stop…moving, and your son is kicking the shit out of me-”

This was ironic, considering how Joan only kicked when Simon or one of their friends spoke or touched her belly. Now, their son only ever kicked for her.

“Freyja.”

She stopped her rambling and found he had stepped into her path; he firmly held her biceps and dragged his hands up and down. Freyja sniffled as another tear slipped down her cheek. No singular word could describe how she felt (and probably looked). Drained, fatigued, beaten, dog-tired; none quite did the trick.

“You look like shit. You need to get some rest.”

“No, Simon, please just go to…bed.”

Soon as Ghost took Joan and returned to massaging her spine, her wails simmered to quiet whimpers as she cuddled into him. She dropped her head onto his shoulder, little fingers hanging from the collar of his shirt to the top of his vest. Their baby was getting big, her senseless baby talk beginning to lean more toward coherent vocabulary. When Joanie cried a soft “Dada” against his neck, Freyja started to sob harder, the heels of her palms dug into her eyes.

Shit. “What’s wrong? She stopped screaming bloody murder. That’s a good thing.”

“I’ve been trying to calm her down for hours! You come home, and after five minutes, you’ve fixed it. She hates me! She fucking hates me!”

“Frey, look at me.” He stopped comforting Joan for a moment to tilt his wife’s chin up, forcing her to listen to him. When she did, he took his hand back. “Babies see their mothers as an extension of themselves. She knows your heartbeat and breathing sounds; she gets food from you…”

“Who told you that?”

“…I read about it.”

Freyja softened, tears no longer flowing freely. “You read parenting books?”

“Of course I do. I want to be the best for them and you.” He pulled her into his chest with one arm, his covered lips pressing into her hair. “You are her mother. I could never take your place. You’re her home. But I’ve been gone for a month, and I’ve never been away from her this long. There’s something to be said about missing her dad and wanting some comfort.”

When Simon brushed her tears away, she turned to kiss his palm, then rested her cheek there. Freyja didn’t know how, but her husband sure had a way with words, always knowing how to make her feel better.

“Better?”

“Mhm,” she hummed and, before she could reach to pull his mask up, Joanie whined in frustration, kicking her legs impatiently, about to start up again. Simon chuckled and let his wife go, his heavy boots thunking against the hard floor as he began what would be a long night of getting his steps in.

“Good. Now do as Daddy tells you and go to bed. Don’t make me tell you again.”

Coming up on the end of her pregnancy, the ‘waddling’ stage was in full swing. If Freyja thought she was big just before Joan was born, she was almost certainly a whale now, and she was losing energy much faster than before. This time around, though, they were sure to schedule a c-section for the week before her due date. The OB didn’t put up much of an argument with her medical history and Joan’s early arrival.

Her phone pinged again as she rounded the corner toward her husband’s office.

And again.

Joan’s irritable whines became more evident as she closed in on her destination. “Si, I can only move so fast.”

“Oh, thank god.” Ghost detached Joan’s iron grip from his mask while she was distracted. She continued to kick her little legs against him, trying to get away. “She’s antsy. I can’t get her down for shit. She’s sick of me.”

He wheeled his chair around the desk and tugged her missing sock back on (to her protest) until he reached the other side and placed her feet on the floor. “See? Mum’s here. Go see her,” he cooed, her tiny hands gripping his thumbs for support.

“Dad Ghost” as she had lovingly coined Simon in his work attire, was a walking contradiction. An arguably massive man, a masked mystery to majority of the population on base, snapping otherwise cocky and egotistical soldiers back in line. Still, no one dared to laugh as he screamed at them for poor technique or a lackluster performance with a blonde baby on his hip or strapped to his back. It never failed to make her want to giggle, hearing such a soft, gentle tone from the big scary skull plate affixed to his balaclava.

Freyja was halfway across the room when he stood their daughter between his comically large boots. “She won’t go that far,” she admonished. “If you give her too big of a task, she’s not going to even try-”

As if sensing her mother’s doubt, Joan took a steady step forward, still holding Simon’s hands in deep concentration. Then another, and another –

Until he couldn’t stretch forward anymore, and she let go, hobbling towards Freyja until she stumbled at her feet, letting out a soft baby grunt.

They both stared at each other in silence, eyes wide and mouths agape in shock. Neither spoke for a good minute, until Joanie pulled herself up again by Freyja’s cargo pants, babbling, “Mum mum mum mummm”, gnawing at the thick material and looking up with big, brown eyes.

“Did she just…?”

“I told you, she’s bloody brilliant.” Simon shot up to scoop the baby and place her in his wife’s waiting arms.

“My big, smart girl! I can’t believe it!” She squealed and giggled as Freyja peppered her face in fat, wet kisses and gently shook her. Ghost joined in, playfully nibbling at the rolls on the other side through the black material covering his face. Joanie smacked them both away, screaming with joy. Amongst all the commotion, Price stopped in the doorway on his way to their brief (which they were about to be late for).

“What’s going on here?” he asked, fists on his hips in faux anger. “I thought we had an understanding! No fun at work without Granddad.”

“We officially have a walker on our hands!”

Price gasped and crossed the room in an instant. “And I missed it?!” He shoved the stack of mission folders at the lieutenant and stole his granddaughter from her mother, hiking her high up on his waist. “You walked without me? I’m offended, little miss, but I’ll settle for a victory lap.”

He plucked his green bucket hat off the top of his head and dropped it onto hers, earning a high-pitched shriek of delight when it covered her face. “Let’s roll, everybody. We’ve got a meeting to get to,” he commanded before marching down the hall. “Oi, lads! She walked!”

A chorus of cheers broke out in the distance, followed by a wall-shaking group chant, “Joanie! Joanie! Joanie!”

Freyja just stood there, pouting, arms crossed atop her belly. “Just once, I’d like to celebrate our baby’s milestones in peace.”

“You know that’s not possible, love.” Ghost chuckled next to her, offering a single pat to her ass as they headed to the briefing. While neither of them would be going, it was their job to know what was going on during their impending absence. The ruckus started to die down when the couple sat, and the others followed suit. Soap placed a mug of peppermint tea in front of her, which she thanked him for, and Laswell, Gaz, and Soap filed around the table.

“Kӧnig and Roach should be here shortly,” Price said, bouncing Joan on his lap as Ghost passed out manila folders.

Gaz checked his watch with a furrowed brow. “It’s five past. Maybe they forgot?”

“Just give them a few minutes. I’m sure they’ll be here.”

“His office was closed, so he’s definitely in there. I can go grab ‘im. It’s no trouble,” he offered, the metal legs of his chair scraping against the floor as he stood up.

“Be my guest, Sergeant,” Freyja hummed, making eye contact with John as she sipped her tea, hiding her mischievous grin behind the cup. She waited for an appropriate amount of time, about how long it would take to take ten paces up the hall before she held up five fingers.

“You’re a demon.”

“Five, four, three, two…”

“Verdammt nochmal!”

There’s a loud bang, eerily similar to the sound of a six-foot-six body slamming into the floor. Boots thunder against the ground until Gaz appears in the doorway again, eyes wide and blushing like a madman.

“Genau deshalb habe ich das Militär verlassen, keiner von euch hat den Anstand, verdammt noch mal anzuklopfen!”

“Didn’t knock, did you.”

“Nope.”

“How bad?”

König stomped into the meeting, red as a tomato as he jerked his long, tangled (read: freshly fucked) hair into a knot at the base of his neck before slipping his hood on. Roach walked in behind him, grinning like an absolute idiot (read: clearly the one doing the fucking), albeit a bit flush, and his clothes untucked and wrinkled as he plopped beside John.

“At least I didn’t get knifed this time.”

“Der Tag ist noch jung, Unteroffizier.”

“I don’t know what that means, but it sounded like a threat.”

“It was,” Freyja sang, her body shaking as she attempted to withhold laughter.

By the time Price had finished divulging the details of the op scheduled for the end of the month (which was also around the time of her c-section, which left Freyja and those deploying disappointed), Joanie had escaped his hold to crawl across the table and landed in her mother’s lap. She sat back against Frey’s round belly, happily gnawing on a teething ring while the captain combed her fingers through her soft, blonde curls.

John cleared his throat and leaned back, tipping the chair on its back legs. “So…In a shocking turn of events, Roach is the top–”

“WHAT DID YOU SAY, CAPTAIN?!” Soap screeched after choking on his coffee, leaving a stain on his shirt as it dripped from his nose.

“Oh, mein Gott…”

“I don’t know. What did I say, Sergeant?”

Across the table, Roach held his lips between his teeth as he wheezed, quickly signing, “Only for my king.”

“PLEASE PLÖTZE! Stop talking!” König, finally deciding he’d had enough, shot up from his seat and practically sprinted out of the room, almost bonking his head on the door frame on his way out. A moment later, he stormed back in and snagged his forgotten file awaiting him in Roach’s outstretched hand before turning back out.

Biting his lip, Soap muttered, “Interesting…” to himself, eyeing the Austrian’s retreating form before flicking back over to Roach. The Brit was already looking at him, probably having heard him being sat next to him. He winked with a devilish smirk, and practically purred, “S’alright, happens tae th' best o' us.”

A few days shy of their next mission, and the birth of the newest Riley, the gang gathered around their living room for one last game night before Roach, König, Soap, and John departed for another mission. Roach and König were less than pleased to be missing the birth of their godson, but it couldn’t be helped.

Kyle placed a red eight down on the stack of cards, ending his turn. “C’mon, mate, what’s the wildest thing you’ve done on a mission?” he prodded, raising a brow in Simon’s direction. “You know all our stories. It’s only fair.”

The two shared a knowing look, and Freyja giggled once before Kyle interrupted, “Besides that, you heathens.”

Simon pressed against the kitchen chair he had dragged in for himself, seriously considering what he would consider the most outlandish activity he had partaken in outside of combat. Particularly, that didn’t involve screwing his wife in places they shouldn’t, like public places, sniper lookouts, cars, or supply closets…

Before he could drift too far, he caught the saucy side-eye his wife was throwing him from her deep armchair.

“No.”

Soap peeked up from his hand with a quirked brow. “Does Ghostie have an embarrassing secret? Now we have to know!”

“It’s not a secret, and I’m not embarrassed by it just because I don’t flaunt it around,” he said, shot back the rest of his whiskey, and replaced his mask. Simon didn’t always wear it with their friends; he just so happened to feel inclined to it that night. There was no rhyme or reason as to when he needed the comfort; the urge just came and went as it pleased.

He tried his best to sound completely disinterested, hoping the discussion would blow over as he threw down his card. “Blue.”

Unfortunately, his plan did not work, and all interest in their game of Uno was lost. Kyle threw his hand down on the table, completely giddy. “WHAT IS IT?! TELL US!”

Simon groaned, throwing his cards at his wife, who simply laughed. “See, look what you did.” He sighed and begrudgingly unhooked his mask from behind his ears, tossing that at her too. After a beat, he let his tongue loll out, revealing a silver ball.

Several (if not all) of their jaws dropped, save for Freyja’s, who was utterly thrilled that this was happening.

Johnny was the first to speak. “Is…that…” he stuttered, staring unabashedly in disbelief.

He snapped his mouth shut again once everyone had had a decent look. “Alright, can we move on please–”

The Scot pounced across the space, clearing the coffee table as he knocked Simon out of his chair, taking them both down into a heap on the floor. They wrestled as he tried to dig his fingers into Ghost’s mouth and pry it open again. “LEMME SEE!”

“JOHNNY!” Simon roared, bucking and thrashing his hips in attempt to get the man off, but he quickly scooted up until he sat firmly on his chest, knees pinning his shoulders as he yanked the piercing back out.

“Awe, so that’s why you’re always fuckin’ like horny teenagers! Oh, ah bet that feels good on your cu-”

“SHUT UP, SOAP!” “THAT’LL DO!”

Freyja whipped her slipper at Johnny’s head, which he swiftly dodged. Meanwhile, Gaz was face down on the floor, having a fit and struggling to breathe. Price looked like he would actually rather die than endure another moment of the scene unfolding at his feet. Kӧnig was carefully weaving between people and furniture to remove Soap before he got hurt, and Roach stayed in his spot, mouth open in silent laughter.

Thank God Joanie was a heavy sleeper.

“Are you gonnae sit there ‘n tell meh that a’m wrong? A husband should always eat arse!”

“JOHNNY, OH MY FUCKING GOD!”

Kyle finally caught his breath and cut back in, “But does it WORK?!”

Everybody froze, including Kӧnig, whose hands looped under Johnny’s armpits, about to extract him. From underneath him, Simon glared up at his wife (who started this whole fucking mess). “Freyja–”

But Freyja, being the brat she is and loving the chaos, “…It works.”

Simon covered his face with both of his now freed hands, so utterly sick of her shit as the sergeant shook his shoulders, he and Gaz both screaming like madmen. Kӧnig still hovered over them, ready to remove Johnny if Simon called for it, his red hair up in a neat top knot at the crown of his head. A few strands hung loosely by his ears and at the peak of his forehead, framing his pale skin.

“AAAAAYYYYYY, SO YOU DO GIVE GOOD HEAD!”

He removed his shield at that, looking up at Johnny with a confused expression. “Who said I don’t give good head?”

Price flinched with a crinkled nose and grabbed his hat from the back of the couch. “That’s my cue.”

“Scary guys either have monster cock or scary good head,” Kyle stated as if it were pure fact.

“But he has both.”

“I can’t fucking take this.” Simon finally shoved at Johnny and the Austrian lifted him with ease, standing the Scot back on his feet.

Soap dusted off his pants. “Damn, you’ll have’ta get one’a those, Köni,” he teased and turned to face the giant, looking up at him with a boyish grin.

König’s skin, ever the shy one, immediately painted itself a rosy hue, unable to be hidden by any hood or mask. Even Roach was taken by his brashness and turned a little pink himself, choosing to sip his drink. König was, unfortunately, frozen in place, wide eyes staring down at Johnny’s proud face.

Three seconds pass.

Then two more.

Then three again.

“OH MY GOD, THAT WAS THEM?! The threesome you told me about a few weeks ago, was them?”

With nowhere else to go, König collapsed onto the couch and pulled the neck of his sweater over his face. “Verdammter Himmel, Johnny…” If he could crawl into a hole and die, he would.

“What can ah say? M’services are world-class.”

“Can confirm,” Roach added, having put his glass down so he could use both hands to talk.

Johnny raised a brow and dragged his eyes from Roach’s shoes, slowly up his shins, then his thighs and chest before settling on the challenging smirk on his freckled face. “‘S that so?” he asked, stepping into the space between Roach’s knees and the table.

Roach simply nodded, looking up at his boyfriend through hooded lashes, resembling a lovesick puppy with shocking accuracy. He knew exactly what he was doing, too, the tip of his tongue poking out between his teeth. Roach was a…talented flirt, to say the least.

His glass was carefully removed from his hand and placed on a coaster. Without a second thought, Soap wrapped his fingers around Roach’s wrist, dragged it behind his neck, and tossed the man over his shoulder. Gaz gaped, completely dumbfounded into silence – flabbergasted, if you will. He paused in the entryway, looking over his opposite shoulder.

“You comin’, Kö?”

König, still tucked away in the corner of the couch, peeked out from the cocoon he had created with his sweater. Even his forehead was tinged red, still. He openly stared for a bit before mustering up enough courage to rise again, and in an impossibly meek voice for such a large man, replied, “...Yes, sir,” and loosely tangled their fingers together.

Kyle threw his hands up then dropped them onto his head, dragging his cap back a bit. “WHAT IS GOING ON?!”

Freyja offered a sympathetic pat, her bottom lip jutted out. Poor Simon, who had returned to his seat, covered his mouth with one palm as he tried to contain his chuckles. He pulled his mask back on after retrieving it from the floor.

“Don’t worry, Gaz,” she said and poked his cheek. “We’ll find you a nice girl.”

“I GET AROUND FINE!” He swatted her hand away, glowering at her. “You’re all just a bunch of slags!”

He jumped up, abandoning his beer and putting his hat back in place. “Where’s my niece? I need to restore my innocence,” he grumbled, trudging upstairs.

“Simon, did he just call us sluts?”

“Yes, darling.”

taglist: @esthervalea, @miss-leto, @sweetestcowboy, @blueoorchid, @apocalypticseagull, @eatingtheworldsoffanfiction, @covenlovenn, @330bpm-whiplash, @gnoccheyy, @jaggernauticals, @dwkfan, @untoldshortsofthefandomsdoms, @bobfloydsgf, @maviee, @thomaslefteyebrow, @kyovy, @prodyng, @scout-fang, @avalkyrieofparis, @misshoneypaper, @berryjuicyy, @voteforpedropascal, @beakami, @addictedtothefictionalworld

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tvgals · 1 year ago

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‘ I AM THE COWBOY … ‘

myaa note — someone pls understand the title. ALSO I NEVER SEE ANY FLOCH FICS SO I MUST DELIVER …

synopsis — floch always spoils you n helps you with whatever you need, but when he sees your new attitude, he decides to postpone on his spending.

@punkologist

“baby, please jus’ buy me the bag!” you plead with your boyfriend. he just shakes his head in disapproval. “nope. you getting too spoiled. when you change that attitude, you can get whatever you want.” floch says, rubbing your thigh and scratching your head, his fingers getting lost in your head of curls.

floch was right. you’d been acting cockier than ever, deciding to post pictures on instagram where you’re practically naked, wearing only a mini skirt and what can barely be considered a crop top, the picture showing the slight glint of your promise ring that sat on your ring finger. “no, my attitudes been the same!” you argue, looking up at your boyfriends eyes. “no it hasn’t. quit lyin’ to me. i seen your texts to yo friends, sayin’ im gon’ get you this and that. imagine how you look now that you ain’t gone get it at all.” floch shrugs his shoulders, his eyes fixed on the tv.

you scrunch your face up at the thought of not getting what you want. you push yourself off of floch. he shoots you a glare and sits up on his elbows. “you just hate me don’t you?” you ask, your lip jutting out, tears threatening to fall. floch knew all about your dramatics, your ways to get into his head, and he was having none of it. “you just want me to be miserable for the rest of my life, huh? i hate you!” you accuse your boyfriend, a sultry grin on his face. you stomp your way to your shared bedroom, slamming the door to make a point. floch chuckles to himself, laying back down on his hands, watching the tv.

after a while of waiting for you to come back out, floch stands up and takes a deep breath, walking to the bedroom where you resided. “baby.” floch called out as firm yet gentle as he could. “hmph.” you grunted, showing disinterest into the conversation you know you’re about to have. “don’t ignore me.” floch mumbles, crawling up on the bed behind you. he turns your body onto your back and looks down at you, your tear stained cheeks breaking his heart.

“you’re fine, mama. it’s alright.” floch says, pressing kisses along your neck. “no it’s not..” you sniffle, looking away from your boyfriend. “it’s gon’ have to be alright.” he says, pushing your shirt up. “you’re so beautiful, could never hate my pretty girl.” he mumbles against your skin, still pressing kisses to your torso. once he gets to your pelvis, he looks up at you with those beautiful brown eyes. “can i? i know you hate me oh so much…” floch grins. your eyes widen and you curl your toes. “of course you can…i didn’t mean it i promise…” you whine. “mhm.” he hums. floch strips you of your sweatpants and panties, throwing them onto the floor.

he delves his head between your legs, his hands holding onto your thighs. he tongue fucks you for a few minutes, knowing you can’t possibly only get off to only that. he moans into your pussy, pressing wet kisses to your pretty heat. “my pretty mama..” floch moans. he ruts his hips into the mattress, pre cum leaking from his pink tip.

“please fuck me…” you whine, arching your back. floch snarls at your demand, deciding to retract from your pussy. you start to cry at the sudden loss of pleasure. “w-why’d you st-op?” you ask, frowning. “don’t demand shit from me after saying you hate me n shit.” floch laughs at you. you cry and whine at this, facing away from him. before he leaves out the room he looks at you, “‘nd don’t even try to touch yourself.” and floch walks away as your legs shake in desperation. floch — who was rather unbothered — plopped back onto the couch. you glared at the door that your boyfriend just left out of. you sat there for a while, making sure he wouldn’t come back inside. you opened your legs up and brought your other one to play with your nipples. “fuck..” you whispered, plunging two of your fingers into your sweet cunt. you tried your hardest to cover up your moans to no avail.

floch knew what you were doing, and he’d hate to say it made him hard. he grinned and turned the tv up, just so you get the illusion he can’t hear you at all. once you finally came with a strained moan, you fall asleep almost immediately. a few hours later floch walked in to see your sleeping body, your cunt still out for display. he smiles at the scene and kissed your forehead before cuddling up behind you and tucking you under the covers.

the next morning it’s safe to say you woke up with a louis vuitton purse on your nightstand with a note that read-

‘next time be quieter.’

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theglassesgirl · 3 months ago

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Thank you for your insightful tags @a-bottle-of-tyelenol !

And I hope you don’t mind me using this opportunity to mention Calypso because i refrained from doing so in my initial response, after having written a whole thing about her a few months ago, but I do understand it being a polarizing creative choice to make it ambiguous.

A brief (for me at least) analysis of Sexual Assault in terms of Calypso and its parallel to the suitors under the read more:

My thoughts on it on this specific subject compared to what I’ve talked about before are as follows and serves as a parallel to what Penelope went through on her own island while her husband was trapped in another;

To be fair, I don’t think it’s necessarily sexist of Jorge to have removed the assault aspect of Circe and Calypso (as some are saying in the OPs own post which…is a take, I guess)

I DO think it was absolutely a choice he made because he did not feel equipped to broach the subject that way and I’ll explain that a little bit, but he still absolutely understands the necessity of it throughout the musical and works to make HIS choice work for the overall arc - and well! Mind you! I think he succeeded even when he held back.

If we look at the source material, it’s certainly intriguing that the MAIN character of the story is a victim or assault by two different gods across the years, who essentially imprison and abuse him. Because of this, I feel it ADDS to the terror and fear by the time we the readers make it to Penelope and Telemachus’s POV in the poem. Because by that point, we have SEEN the antagonists “win” - Odysseus, like his family, has been a prisoner strip of any agency and options, and if HE has suffered sexual violence, it becomes a very real possibility for his WIFE to face

(in a lot of ways, we could also view Oddy killing the suitors be a sort of catharsis for him in that aspect, to be able to kill these violent men the way he couldn’t the goddesses who did all that do him, before they could hurt his wife and son)

Jorge’s musical is MUCH tamer, because he himself might be uncomfortable with depicting that subject matter as a physical action, but it still has a similar vibe.

We see Odysseus was able to respectfully reject Circe, but she still came onto him (albeit to kill him, but he had to account for all possibilities) so when he’s faced with Calypso, it’s VERY shocking and upsetting that he isn’t able to do the same with her.

The ambiguity of the seven years has caused so much discourse yet I argue, and trust me I’ve argued about it so much, that in some ways it’s exactly the ambiguity that Penelope and Telemachus faced.

We will never know what EXACTLY happened to Odysseus on that island, and we will never know what EXACTLY happened on Ithaca either.

As far as we do know, Antinous and who knows how many others feel very comfortable using sexually violent language to Penelope’s SON. She’s clearly put up a strong and unaffected front that Telemachus admires her for, but I’m sure it’s taken a heavy toll on her - the same her husband has faced, and that Athena has seen. And as far as we know, whatever calypso has done, given her words (like Antinous’), made Odysseus openly suicidal at least once!

While one spouse has to look strong, the other is visibly very weakened. This dynamic is missed when we don’t see both Penelope and Odysseus as complimentary partners, even after two decades of being apart!

But anyway. Having said this, Jorge’s version still provides a sense of urgency and plays on the audiences psychological need for Penelope to get a happy ending.

Because we’ve seen Odysseus successfully turn down one goddess, and we’ve seen him suffer under another without the privilege of knowing the depth of what he went through - for Penelope, its once again utterly inverted.

She CANNOT turn down any of the suitors successfully (hence the impossible task being her last ditch high stakes gambit, because SHE knows none of them can do it, but also doesn’t know how violently they will react to discovering that) and Antinous and the other suitors have completely cast aside pretense and are planning to assault her - no more ambiguity.

Where her husband has survived his own assaulters (though not unscathed) we are made very aware that Penelope’s situation is far more dire and her options much more limited. We are made to feel RUSHED, urged to see her helped (by Athena, her son and FINALLY her husband)

Jorge’s creative choice is still true to the integrity of this arc, Circe and Calypso still represent a parallel and an inversion to Penelope’s own plight.

Is it frustrating that not having a definitive answer to the boundaries Calypso pushed Odysseus - very much, I personally DO see her as someone who got physical based on much of her lyrics but I don’t mind people who don’t. As I have oft said, even without her “successfully” assaulting him, even if all she did was stand in front and look at him for seven years straight - it’s a violation of his autonomy and truamatizinggggg

but we’re not talking about her so much as how her role now fits/changed in the story. Mostly it hasn’t, is my point! If we really take a step back and follow the thread of this particular arc, it serves its purpose as well as when what Calypso did WAS explicit. Which again is why I feel Jorge made the creative choice to make the suitors intention MORE explicit.

For me, at least, it’s a careful balance that makes you LOOK at these two storylines and forces you to consider their similarities. We might not approve of the change, but unlike the heinous suggestion that the suitors should be innocent victims and Penelope be made their pal, Calypso’s role STILL works and fits the narrative.

Nevertheless, it’s perfectly fine if you still feel that way about it, because lord knows I’m constantly debating several aspects of Calypo’s character with other people across social medias lol and I’m sooo sorry this response went beyond the scope of your initial comments (please let me know if you’d rather untag you! 😭)

#epic the ithaca saga #epic the musical #epic odysseus #epic penelope #epic calypso

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warningsine · 1 year ago

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Living online means never quite understanding what’s happening to you at a given moment. Why these search results? Why this product recommendation? There is a feeling—often warranted, sometimes conspiracy-minded—that we are constantly manipulated by platforms and websites.

So-called dark patterns, deceptive bits of web design that can trick people into certain choices online, make it harder to unsubscribe from a scammy or unwanted newsletter; they nudge us into purchases. Algorithms optimized for engagement shape what we see on social media and can goad us into participation by showing us things that are likely to provoke strong emotional responses. But although we know that all of this is happening in aggregate, it’s hard to know specifically how large technology companies exert their influence over our lives.

This week, Wired published a story by the former FTC attorney Megan Gray that illustrates the dynamic in a nutshell. The op-ed argued that Google alters user searches to include more lucrative keywords. For example, Google is said to surreptitiously replace a query for “children’s clothing” with “NIKOLAI-brand kidswear” on the back end in order to direct users to lucrative shopping links on the results page. It’s an alarming allegation, and Ned Adriance, a spokesperson for Google, told me that it’s “flat-out false.” Gray, who is also a former vice president of the Google Search competitor DuckDuckGo, had seemingly misinterpreted a chart that was briefly presented during the company’s ongoing U.S. et al v. Google trial, in which the company is defending itself against charges that it violated federal antitrust law. (That chart, according to Adriance, represents a “phrase match” feature that the company uses for its ads product; “Google does not delete queries and replace them with ones that monetize better as the opinion piece suggests, and the organic results you see in Search are not affected by our ads systems,” he said.)

Gray told me, “I stand by my larger point—the Google Search team and Google ad team worked together to secretly boost commercial queries, which triggered more ads and thus revenue. Google isn’t contesting this, as far as I know.” In a statement, Chelsea Russo, another Google spokesperson, reiterated that the company’s products do not work this way and cited testimony from Google VP Jerry Dischler that “the organic team does not take data from the ads team in order to affect its ranking and affect its result.” Wired did not respond to a request for comment. Last night, the publication removed the story from its website, noting that it does not meet Wired’s editorial standards.

It’s hard to know what to make of these competing statements. Gray’s specific facts may be wrong, but the broader concerns about Google’s business—that it makes monetization decisions that could lead the product to feel less useful or enjoyable—form the heart of the government’s case against the company. None of this is easy to untangle in plain English—in fact, that’s the whole point of the trial. For most of us, evidence about Big Tech’s products tends to be anecdotal or fuzzy—more vibes-based than factual. Google may not be altering billions of queries in the manner that the Wired story suggests, but the company is constantly tweaking and ranking what we see, while injecting ads and proprietary widgets into our feed, thereby altering our experience. And so we end up saying that Google Search is less useful now or that shopping on Amazon has gotten worse. These tools are so embedded in our lives that we feel acutely that something is off, even if we can’t put our finger on the technical problem.

That’s changing. In the past month, thanks to a series of antitrust actions on behalf of the federal government, hard evidence of the ways that Silicon Valley’s biggest companies are wielding their influence is trickling out. Google’s trial is under way, and while the tech giant is trying to keep testimony locked down, the past four weeks have helped illustrate—via internal company documents and slide decks like the one cited by Wired—how Google has used its war chest to broker deals and dominate the search market. Perhaps the specifics of Gray’s essay were off, but we have learned, for instance, how company executives considered adjusting Google’s products to lead to more “monetizable queries.” And just last week, the Federal Trade Commission filed a lawsuit against Amazon alleging anticompetitive practices. (Amazon has called the suit “misguided.”)

Filings related to that suit have delivered a staggering revelation concerning a secretive Amazon algorithm code-named Project Nessie. The particulars of Nessie were heavily redacted in the public complaint, but this week The Wall Street Journal revealed details of the program. According to the unredacted complaint, a copy of which I have also viewed, Nessie—which is no longer in use—monitored industry prices of specific goods to determine whether competitors were algorithmically matching Amazon’s prices. In the event that competitors were, Nessie would exploit this by systematically raising prices on goods across Amazon, encouraging its competitors to follow suit. Amazon, via the algorithm, knew that it would be able to charge more on its own site, because it didn’t have to worry about being undercut elsewhere, thereby making the broader online shopping experience worse for everyone. An Amazon spokesperson told the Journal that the FTC is mischaracterizing the tool, and suggested that Nessie was a way to monitor competitor pricing and keep price-matching algorithms from dropping prices to unsustainable levels (the company did not respond to my request for comment).

In the FTC’s telling, Project Nessie demonstrates the sheer scope of Amazon’s power in online markets. The project arguably amounted to a form of unilateral price fixing, where Amazon essentially goaded its competitors into acting like cartel members without even knowing they’d done so—all while raising prices on consumers. It’s an astonishing form of influence, powered by behind-the-scenes technology.

The government will need to prove whether this type of algorithmic influence is illegal. But even putting legality aside, Project Nessie is a sterling example of the way that Big Tech has supercharged capitalistic tendencies and manipulated markets in unnatural and opaque ways. It demonstrates the muscle that a company can throw around when it has consolidated its position in a given sector. The complaint alleges that Amazon’s reach and logistics capabilities force third-party sellers to offer products on Amazon and for lower prices than other retailers. Once it captured a significant share of the retail market, Amazon was allegedly able to use algorithmic tools such as Nessie to drive prices up for specific products, boosting revenues and manipulating competitors.

Reading about Project Nessie, I was surprised to feel a sense of relief. In recent years, customer-satisfaction ratings have dipped among Amazon shoppers who have cited delivery disruptions, an explosion of third-party sellers, and poor-quality products as reasons for frustration. In my own life and among friends and relatives, there has been a growing feeling that shopping on the platform has become a slog, with fewer deals and far more junk to sift through. Again, these feelings tend to occupy vibe territory: Amazon’s bigness seems stifling or grating in ways that aren’t always easy to explain. But Nessie offers a partial explanation for this frustration, as do revelations about Google’s various product adjustments. We have the sense that we’re being manipulated because, well, we are. It’s a bit like feeling vaguely sick, going to the doctor, and receiving a blood-test result confirming that, yes, the malaise you experienced is actually an iron deficiency. It is the catharsis of, at long last, receiving a diagnosis.

This is the true power of the surge in anti-monopoly litigation. (According to experts in the field, September was “the most extraordinary month they have ever seen in antitrust.”) Whether or not any of these lawsuits results in corporate breakups or lasting change, they are, effectively, an MRI of our sprawling digital economy—a forensic look at what these larger-than-life technology companies are really doing, and how they are exerting their influence and causing damage. It is confirmation that what so many of us have felt—that the platforms dictating our online experiences are behaving unnaturally and manipulatively—is not merely a paranoid delusion, but the effect of an asymmetrical relationship between the giants of scale and us, the users.

In recent years, it’s been harder to love the internet, a miracle of connectivity that feels ever more bloated, stagnant, commercialized, and junkified. We are just now starting to understand the specifics of this transformation—the true influence of Silicon Valley’s vise grip on our lives. It turns out that the slow rot we might feel isn’t just in our heads, after all.

#technology #internet

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