#Mspec lesbians have always existed

[rjalker]

Really really really really fucking tells you everything you need to know about people who hate mspec lesbians that they always refer to them all as "bi lesbians". Really fucking telling you everything you need to know without even having to ask.

[kissingwomenat3pm]

[sirenium]

It's okay to use contradictory labels. I know, I'm probably being redundant here. But I want to make sure anyone who hasn't heard it today gets to chance to hear it. You're valid. I don't care if you're a boy in whatever way, and you're also a lesbian, nor do I care if you're a girl in some way and also gay. I don't mind if you're omni, pan, bi, poly, or abro and a lesbian/gay. Are you aroace spec as well as mspec? Nice! Are you a mixture of all of these things? Something I missed? Cool!

Complicated identities are no less valid than identities that fit into boxes. And I will keep saying that, because there are still people in the world who insist on what you can and can't be (I swear I've said something like that word for word before, but sbsbs), whether it be your average homophobic grandpa or some exclusionist on twitter.💀

[authoratmidnight]

>especially lesbian pride items, which at the time meant using the ugly-as-sin, hard to make stuff with, made by a racist "lipstick pride" flag that was actually just stolen from a joke "cougar pride" flag made by a morning radio show

And then the one got really popular (i don't remember if it was the version w/ the orange stripes or one of the variations made from it) was made by an open ace exclusionist and everyone was just, ok with that apparently. Like, way to just exclude a section of your community guys, can't imagine it's a nice feeling, being an ace lesbian and having to live with your community's flag being one made by someone who thinks part of your identity doesn't *really* count. Yikes.

I literally ended up having to unfollow and block someone cause they just, started down this whole ass aphobic rabbit hole one day? And I would keep seeing these posts right before going to work and it would fuck me up all day cause it would just, leave me upset. And I realized 'hey that's not good' and the content I had followed them for was not worth this.

But like, it sucks.

I don't think younger/newer users fully grasp the shit show that ace discourse was around 2014-17

It was so hostile that, to this day, discussions that begin to derail just enough can make me physically nauseous, some specific mockery trigger crying sessions years later. We lost most accounts with any sort of ace positivity. There was no information, no support, and all this damage was done predominantly by other queer people.

All this to say that you, however you identify yourself, should be engaging with aphobic comments the same way you do any hate. We don't sugarcoat or try to be comprehensive with people who are blatantly racist, homophobic or terfs, so why give it a pass just because it's coming from a queer person? I see how this tolerance goes and it's done enough damage as it is.

[lisanees]

I need more ACTUAL love and appreciation for transfem butches btw, cuz every single time butch positivity posts mention transfem butches it's always as an afterthought and it feels so incredibly half hearted to me idk

transfem butches I love you with all my heart and soul, thank you for being butch despite what a difficult thing it is to come to terms with and navigate the world as when as a trans woman you already have to struggle with people not seeing you for who you are

you exist in a way that is so uniquely beautiful, that no tme butch can replicate cuz it's a special kind of butch identity that comes with being transfem, please please know that the femmes in your life feel so blessed we get to love you and exist alongside you 🥺♥️

everyone who reblogs this hates mspec "lesbians" btw <3

[genderkoolaid]

I'm sorry but you people have demeaned the word lesbian so badly... the LITERAL definition of a lesbian is a NON-MAN who likes NON-MEN. How is that so fucking hard to understand? Not you specifically, but people like you have made it into something it's not; the whole "bi lesbian" and "straight lesbian" shit, saying trans men can date lesbians (which is literally just transphobic), straight up just saying lesbians can date men???? MEN???? DO YOU NOT HEAR YOURSELVES?

And now the whole butch discourse lmao. Sure, maybe in days long past it was a broader term, but today when someone hears the word butch, I can guarantee their minds will jump to a butch lesbian. If y'all want it to be the GBT community so bad then just say so

Also I can guarantee that you were one of the mfs laughing at lesbians who used he/him or he/they pronouns back in 2020 lmao performative ass bitch

Definitions of words do not descend from Heaven straight from the lips of God. We make them up! So I simply disagree with your definition of lesbian, as do many others. Personally, I enjoy the definition of "queer love/desire for women." For one, it centers lesbianism around women, instead of centering it around the exclusion of men. And two, "non-men loving non-men" is a definition which utterly erases nonbinary people. If an agender person is dating a neutrois person, they are not lesbians- or gay men- simply because y'all cannot get your head out of your binary asses for five seconds. "Non-men loving non-men" is a definition that attempts to be nonbinary-inclusive but only succeeds in making nonbinary & genderqueer identities palatable for radical feminism and political lesbianism. Honestly, I would prefer someone who defines lesbian as "woman loving woman" but understands that many people have complex relationships with womanhood while still feeling attached to the label of lesbian, than someone who uses this "NB-inclusive" definition and goes absolutely feral over genderqueers who are Doing It Wrong.

Anyways, speaking of radical feminism: acknowledging male lesbians and mspec lesbians is not "making lesbianism something its not." It is just recognizing the beautiful complexity that has always existed within lesbianism.

The lesbian community- which I'm using to refer to all kinds of communities organized around queer relationships to women & womanhood- has always been a haven for a lot more people than cis women exclusively into other cis women. The idea of sexuality-as-identity is very recent, and the idea of drawing a hard line between people who only like people of the same gender and people who like the same gender and more is also extremely recent. Beyond that, trans men and nonbinary people have always taken shelter under lesbianism. "Butch" in the context of lesbianism has always been a trans* identity, a way for people with a queer gender to find community and safety.

The reason why we have this idea of lesbianism as a strict category with hard borders is..... you guessed it..... radical feminism! And specifically "political lesbianism," which essentially placed woman-only relationships as the only true feminist relationship you could have. "Lesbian" became a political identity because of its focus on woman-woman relationships. But that meant that, for political lesbianism to be acceptable to radical feminism, it needed to conform to radical feminist beliefs about what makes a good feminist. Which meant:

No trans women or fems (because they are too male and probably predators)

No trans men or mascs (because they are too male and also traitors)

No bisexuals (because they are too male by association and are also traitors)

No penetrative sex, or at least no strap ons (because it imitates men)

No kinky sex (see above but with bonus "kink is evil" flavoring)

No butch/femme roles (because they imitate heterosexuality; everyone has to be neutrally androgynous).

I believe that much of modern lesbian discourse comes from trying to marry lingering radfem beliefs with modern attempts at trans-inclusivity. So you adapt the blatant transphobia: now, trans women are allowed in (as long as they are palatable to cis women), because they're women! And nonbinary people can also be allowed in- at first they were woman-aligned, and then later as long as they weren't man-aligned. Being butch/femme is Back In Style, but we have to soothe the gender anxiety that butches cause by assuring everyone that only True Lesbians can be butch, and butches are always women, even if they kind of aren't, but regardless they're definitely not men, because butch has always been a lesbian term (except it hasn't.) The discourse is haunted by the ideas that lesbianism is constantly under attack, more than anyone else, and that lesbian culture is unique and special and must be guarded from (male/-aligned) invaders who are probably also sexual predators.

To say that this is all just "days long pasts" ignores both that, in physical queer spaces there very much still are male lesbians and bi lesbians who are accepted parts of their local communities, and that you only see those days as "long past" because of the impact of radical feminism on lesbianism. The only reason you see these changes as a good thing is because you've swallowed radical feminist ideas without realizing it.

Also, "if you say butch most people will think of butch lesbians" is an extremely silly argument. Literally who fucking cares. If you say "man" there are still a lot of people who will immediately think of exclusively cis men (see: every feminist who says shit like "if men could get pregnant). Does that mean that trans men should just give up their identities because other people don't understand them? You dork?

Anyways. The funniest part of this ask is how damn confident you are that I was apparently hating on he/him lesbians three years ago. Idk how to tell you this but I'm a boygirl gaylesbianbisexual and have identified this way for years. I have been personally terrorized by shitty lesbian identity politics, the same ones you are repeating now, which told me that if I was even 1% male then identifying as a lesbian made me a disgusting predator. Which caused me years of suffering because no matter how hard I tried, I could not ignore my multigenderedness and how that affected my sexuality. Sowwy but you look silly as hell and your argument is bad and you should feel bad </3

[eris-abomination]

✨🏳️‍⚧️A COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO TERF DOGWHISTLES🏳️‍⚧️✨

I’ve already posted something similar to this in a reblog, but I figured that for the sake of our safety, I’d rewrite it in a post of its own (with some additions and elaboration). Please consider reblogging this; we need to educate our community on warning signs that hide in plain sight, and once you know what calling cards TERFs use, you’ll be seeing them everywhere.

(Also please note that dogwhistles function in plausible deniability. While some of these points may sound innocuous or incriminating, always check for context clues first before blocking or exposing a potential TERF. Content warning for discussion of transphobic, misogynistic, racist, and anti-SW terminology/ideology under the cut. Please continue at your own discretion.)

• TIM/TIF: “trans-identifying male/female.”

• “Dysphoric female,” used to describe trans men.

• “Gender traitor,” used to shame post-transition men.

• “(Male) invader,” used to describe trans women existing in women’s spaces.

• “Gender-critical” or “gender abolitionist.”

• Weaponization of detransitioners in order to bolster the claim that trans identity is a “phase” or something a person can be manipulated, forced, or “deluded” into.

• Discussion of “irreversible side effects” or “regret rate.”

• “42%” or the number 42, in reference to suicide rates among transgender individuals.

• “Womyn,” “wombyn,” “gyn,” or other omissions of the -man suffix.

• “Adult human female,” used as a mockery against the term “cisgender.”

• “Female homosexual” in the place of “lesbian,” especially if paired with the statement “female homosexuals don’t date men” to invalidate attraction toward trans women.

• “Libfem”: derogatory term for trans-inclusive liberal feminists.

• The 🍒 (referring to Joanna Cherry) and 🏁 (referring to the cis gender binary) emojis.

• TRA: “trans rights activist,” used in a derogatory manner. (Note that this acronym can also mean “transracial adoption,” which has nothing to do with bigoted rhetoric.)

• “Peak trans (moment),” used to describe a TERF’s moment of radicalization.

• Any discussion of “rapid-onset gender dysphoria”. It’s transphobic psuedoscience and does not exist.

• Transmedicalism: the idea that you’re not “actually trans” unless you have a desire to medically transition. TERFS will use this to invalidate and demonize trans individuals who don’t “pass.”

• Use of the term DSD (“disorder of sexual development”) instead of intersex, and/or advocating for the “medical correction” of intersex bodies.

• Invalidation of, exclusion of, or aggressions against intersex people.

• Exclusion or invalidation of aspec identities (asexual, aromantic, aroace, etc).

• Exclusion or invalidation of mspec attraction (pansexuality, bisexuality, etc), usually on the basis of one being a “traitor” if they like men and women.

• Disownment of the term “queer.”

• Discussion of autogynophilia or autoandrophilia, implying that trans identity is a “sexual fetish.”

• “Fetishist” being used as an insult, specifically against trans women or sexually autonomous trans individuals.

• Anti-kink puritanism and the treatment of (particularly female) sexual liberation as a shame or taboo.

• Applying the “male gaze” argument to real-life women who are open about and comfortable in their sexuality.

• “What about the children?!” rhetoric, specifically manifesting in claims that children are being groomed, indoctrinated, or forced into “dangerous” medical procedures.

• Language such as “transgenderism,” “gender ideology,” “genderist,” “gender cult,” or other terms that pathologize trans identity.

• Denial of intersectionality’s effect on systems of oppression and the belief that the patriarchy is solely to blame for all of women’s problems.

• The false equivalency fallacy: comparing bigoted ideologies to the struggles of marginalized groups to garner sympathy (ex. “TERF is a slur” or “POC feel safer in their own spaces, why are bathroom bans any different?”)

• Self-proclaimed “radfems.” (Keep in mind this is a VERY tricky one, simply because many people don’t fully understand what radfem ideology entails.)

• An open hatred toward all men.

• Denial of the fact that men can be oppressed or harmed, manifesting in accusing people of being “MRAs” if they advocate for trans, queer, disabled, POC, or otherwise marginalized men.

• Insinuation that women cannot be oppressive, abusive, or predatory, and that these traits are only exhibited by men.

• Strong aversion to being called cis or claiming the word is a slur.

• “LGB community” or “LGB, drop the T.” Any exclusion of a letter from the acronym could be a warning sign for bigotry or exclusionism.

• The Hydra symbol, used to portray trans individuals as an ever-expanding threat.

• “Did you just assume my gender?!” or “I identify as a ___” being used as mocking comments.

• Excessive use of biological terminology (“basic biology,” “female/male biology,” “biological markers,” “biological sex,” etc.)

• Transvestigating: intense scrutiny of one’s appearance and anatomy, especially around stereotypically gendered traits (body hair, eyelashes, muscles, height, facial structure, hips, waist, chest, etc.)

• Phrenology: a form of pseudoscience claiming that one’s character can be determined by their facial shape and proportion. Phrenology holds extremely racist/antisemitic implications and heavily favors femme Eurocentric beauty standards, leading to women with non-European features being “transvestigated” or viewed as masculine and therefore “brutish” or “threatening.”

• Conflation of feminine expression or aesthetics with purity or goodness (oftentimes overlapping with phrenology).

• Noticeable disgust or bitterness toward masculine/butch gender expression.

• Erasure of nonbinary identity or categorization of nonbinary people into their AGAB.

• Gender purism: any belief that there’s a “right” and “wrong” way to be a woman.

• Gender essentialism: belief that all men are born as violent oppressors and all women are inherently fragile and vulnerable.

• Belief that testosterone directly causes violent impulses and aggression.

• Separatism: enforced separation of men and women, specifically manifesting in “women only” spaces and the belief that trans women are “male invaders” trying to enact violence on other women.

• Defining the “female experience” exclusively by suffering, physically or mentally.

• Discussion of the “divine feminine,” female energy,” or co-opting of spiritual terminology to advocate gender essentialism.

• “Woman-born woman,” “AFAB woman,” “biological woman,” or “natal woman” as an avoidance of the word “cisgender.”

• Defining womanhood as the possession of a womb and the ability to menstruate and give birth, usually paired with the statement “men can’t have babies/periods.”

If you stuck around for this long, thank you for taking the time to look through this. If you know of any other potential dogwhistles, I invite you to reblog this post or comment with your additions so I can add them into this list.

TERFS will be blocked on sight. You are not fucking welcome here. Trans people will always exist, are valid as fuck, and deserve the right to life and happiness.

[aceing-on-the-cake]

Compulsory Heterosexuality Info Dump

So because a friend of mine didn't know what comp het was and their internet history is monitored by their parents so they can't just use google, I'm doing a very quick research dive and giving you guys the results in case there are others out there who are in the same situation. I'll also be tagging blogs bigger than me because again, there might be fellow queers out their who are in the same boat as my friend and I want them to have access to this information.

So what is compulsory heterosexuality (or comp het)?

Comp het is in essence the societal belief and enforcement of being straight.

What does this mean?

In basic form it means that the only options presented to everyone, from the moment of birth, is that of a cis, amatonormative, heterosexual lifestyle.

You are given two gender options, these gender options determine the two roles you're allowed to fulfill, husband and wife, and you are told that these two roles are what will make you happy and are what you are supposed to strive for.

Meaning society, if you are born AFAB, tells you you're going to one day get married, it's going to be a boy, and this is what will make you happy. Almost everything in life is then seen through this lens. How attractive your are, how you are supposed to talk, how you're supposed to behave, etc is all considered through the lens of if a man will be attracted to you.

On the flip side, if you are born AMAB society tells you there are roles you have to fulfill as well. You are told you will one day want a wife, that you have to be able to have a job to provide for her, that you have to behave in a certain emotional way to be strong for her, that if the things you like are too feminine well then you're gay or a girl which is a problem because at the end of the day you're supposed to want the girl-fiance-wife.

This literally just sounds like the patriarchy.

Yes, it does, because it's caused by it. Nowadays people commonly know about compulsory heterosexuality from the Lesbian Masterdoc, but the term actually originated by Adrienne Rich in 1980.

Adrienne Rich in her article Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence put forward three ideas, 1) that heterosexuality and lesbianism were institutions themselves/possible political ideologies, 2) that heterosexuality as a system if not constantly maintained and upheld would eventually crumble and 3) that heterosexuality as a system could be opted out of and actively fought against whether or not you were actually attracted to women/non-women.

This is very different from the way we currently think of and define those terms, I am aware of that, but her point does still stand to some degrees that comp het, cisnormativity and amatonormativity all crumble when we stop rigidly enforcing the structures that uphold them, i.e., the patriarchy, misogyny, classism, and racism.

Ok but like what does that actually look like?

It can look like a lot of things, for a lot of different people. In the Lesbian Masterdoc you see comp het presented from a straightforward lesbian lens (of a 19 year old figuring out and defining their own sexuality guys, I'm not gonna sit here and critique it and rip it to death, go do that somewhere else).

This is therefore presented through things like women/non-women who were raised/socialized as women possibly having crushes on men, but they're always unattainable in some way (celebrities, fictional, someone real but they wouldn't actually ever be able to truly be in a relationship with, etc). It might also show up for lesbians as liking the idea of a man but being uncomfortable when one actually wants to move forward in the process. Or even sometimes it might show up as sexual fantasies with men but they're faceless, they're more an idea, or you're actually viewing another woman sleeping with him.

This presentation of comp het has made a lot of bi/pan/mspec people uncomfortable because they feel they too have experiencing comp het and when reading the Lesbian Masterdoc it's presented as if experiencing this is a straight shot towards being a lesbian.

And they're right that comp het isn't experienced by just lesbians. For mspecs who present feminine/as women this could be in the feeling that they have to dress a certain way to be presentable, but presentable is based on appealing to men. This can mean something as simple as women are expected to wear makeup, always, regardless of if they're looking to seek men's attention or not, because that's the base standard.

For mspecs who present masculine this can look like the inability to express themselves in an overly emotional manner because that doesn't make them "strong" and if they're not "strong" then they won't attract women, and that's what they're supposed to be doing.

For mspecs in general that can look like their queer looking relationships to be seen as a phase even if their mspec-ness is respected because of course they're eventually going to get married to a man/woman.

This can affect polyamorous cishet people in that they're seen as doing heterosexuality wrong because you're supposed to have the one partner and the 2.5 kids.

This can affect aspecs because they're told they'll never truly feel fulfilled if they don't have that boyfriend/girlfriend/partner to love them in a way that's so special nothing else could match up.

This affects all of us guys is my point.

How is this helpful to me?

Well for sapphics and lesbians (or sapphics/mspecs confused on if they are actually lesbians) this can be a helpful concept to consider because it can help you determine what relationships you truly want to pursue, which is the main point I feel is to be gained from the Lesbian Masterdoc. As she's put it "it's way more important to ask yourself if you can be truthfully happy with a man than if you’re attracted to them"

So if you're a sapphic who experiences attraction to men but you honestly can't ever see yourself willingly entering into a relationship with them, consider the idea of comp het.

If you're Achillean the opposite of this can be true, if you've been attracted to women before but honestly can't ever see yourself willingly entering into a relationship with them, consider whether comp het is working on you.

For mspecs this can be a helpful term to throw over the table back at your parents when they ask when you're going to get a "real relationship".

This can be a helpful term to consider when asking "am I forcing myself to wear mascara because I feel this is the only way I look presentable or do I actually like mascara."

Or it can be a helpful concept to look back on when undermining our internalized ideals of misogyny, towards ourselves and others.

This is a helpful term to put in our tool boxes to talk about the harm the systems of patriarchy, classism, and racism impose upon us.

Comp het can help us to understand why so many people look down on polyamory as a legitimate way of life.

It can be a helpful term for aspecs who are trying to figure out if they really want to date/have sex, or if they just believe these are the only things that will make you happy.

In general

Compulsory heterosexuality is just another term to describe a system we are all intimately familiar with. But by giving us the words to describe our experiences, it gives us the power to communicate those experiences more effectively, and to possibly understand why we're experiencing them.

This is just a bare basic knowledge post.

Honestly if you have the ability to, as in your internet history is not monitored in the way my friend's is, I encourage you to go on the deep dive through the sources listed below. Many of them are honestly only 30 pages long, that's a relatively short read, and understanding queer theory like this not only helps you to understand your own identity, but the ways in which you are connected to the rest of the fellow queer community.

Sources

Lesbian Masterdoc

Queer Theory 101: Compulsory Heterosexuality

Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence

Normativities Defined

Taglist

I'm tagging blogs bigger than me so that this has an easier time getting passed around as I mainly talk about aspec issues because I am aspec, but as stated above, I wanted to make sure that queer people who's internet histories are monitored and are only able to find information through tumblr safely could do so.

@our-queer-experience @our-sapphic-experience @our-lesbian-experience @our-aspec-experience @our-polyamorous-experience @our-pansexual-experience @our-unlabelled-experience @our-aroace-experience @our-mspec-experience @our-questioning-experience @our-bisexual-experience

[violottie]

since my old blog got nuked, i gotta make this post again because yall refuse to be anything but ignorant

lesbian sexuality ≠ heterosexual men's sexuality

lesbian attraction to women ≠ men's attraction to women

trans men cannot be lesbians, because they are men. if you think so, youre a transphobe as well as a lesbophobe.

lesbian attraction is not perverse, predatory, dehumanising to or sexualising of women's bodies

men have never and will never be included in lesbian sexuality and attraction under any circumstance

(and if your mind immediately goes to trans women and transfems when reading the above, congrats, youre a transphobe)

butch, femme, stud and stone are lesbian only identities

similarly, dyke is a slur that literally means lesbian. if youre not a lesbian, you're not a, nor can you 'reclaim', dyke.

butches and studs ≠ men or man-lite

butch ≠ masculine

femme ≠ feminine

transmasc ≠ trans man, therefore transmasc lesbians are a thing and trans men cannot ever be lesbians

trans women and transfems have been & will always be included in lesbian attraction, sexuality and community

trans lesbians & transfems can be butch

he/him lesbians ≠ (trans)masc, butch, stud lesbians

black lesbians ≠ automatically masc, butch, stud or tops

"bi lesbians" or "mspec lesbians" do not exist.

the split attraction model is for aromanticism and asexuality only. if you identify as such, youre just a bisexual who doesnt wanna unpack your internalised biphobia so resort to lesbophobia to cope with your self loathing caused by harmful stereotypes about your sexuality, which is bisexual. if you claim they do exist, you're both lesbophobic and biphobic

thank you for coming to my TedTalk. im sure you didnt listen to a word i said.

[nonconformityhub]

Mspec Lesbian Misconceptions

I still get exclusionary comments and reblogs on my friend's mspec lesbian infographic so I thought I'd make a sort of 'addon post' that answers basically everything!

Please check the infographic out! It's much shorter and it looks pretty

🌺 "Mspec always means that you're attracted to men"

⤷ Mspec is short for the 'multisexual (or other multi- attraction type) spectrum', meaning the attraction to multiple genders. Most folks who experience attraction to women and non-binary genders don't consider themselves mspec, but that doesn't mean that nobody can

⤷ As we understand the complexities of gender more and move past the 'only two genders' way, what counts as being bi or otherwise mspec will change

🌺 "There's no reason to reclaim old uses for the word lesbian from before lesbian separatism"

⤷ Lesbian separatists tried to exclude anyone that associated themselves with men or masculinity from lesbianism. This included bi people, trans people, butches and mascs, lesbians still married to men, lesbians living with men, and more. Some went as far as considering butch-for-femme relationships to be harmful. Why wouldn't people want to reclaim lesbian from a time before this ideology spread? See more here

🌺 "But bi women wanted to make their own spaces and stop using lesbian spaces and the lesbian label" ⤷ Obviously, some bi sapphics of the time would've wanted to be distinctly and only viewed as bi, and have no affiliation with lesbians, but plenty didn't. Implying that the rise of radical feminism in the lesbian community was wanted by all of the people they excluded is ridiculous. It wasn't a consensus

🌺 "Mspec lesbians just want to feel included in lesbian spaces"

⤷ You've hit the nail on the head actually, this isn't the gotcha you think it is. Mspec sapphics were originally welcome to use the word lesbian and exist in the lesbian community, and then they weren't, so some of them would like to be included again yes

🌺 "It takes away spaces that are just for monosexual lesbians"

⤷ There have been attempts made to create terms for monosexual lesbians (though usually people just mean 'not attracted to men' rather than monosexual), but the lesbian community thrived with bisexuals in it for a long time. Lesbian spaces are heavily dominated by monosexual lesbians as well

⤷ The real question here is why are you so keen to know for definite that nobody in your space is attracted to men? And what are you counting as 'attracted to men'? Are you assuming it based on dating habits? What label they use? What you consider to be attraction? Everyone views this stuff differently, you can't police it properly

🌺 "Lesbian can't be used in the split attraction model, it means no attraction to men at all"

⤷ Insisting that someone has to use 'homoromantic' rather than lesbian just because they're bisexual or vice versa is pointless. Not only is lesbian a more open and functional label (it specifies attraction to women and doesn't imply that the user is also a woman), but defining it as an absence of attraction to men is very 1970s lesbian separatist of you

🌺 + "If you're fluid between mspec and lesbian just say abrosexual", "If you heavily prefer women just say homoflexible" and so on so forth

⤷ There are probably terms that technically apply to you that you don't use because you're not connected to the label or it doesn't fit quite right. The same applies here. Abrosexual is very broad, homoflexible implies 'same gender' attraction to women, and we've established that there's nothing stopping them from using mspec and lesbian instead

[cloudboundcritters]

hiya anon! I just wanna let you know that mspec lesbians and lesboys have existed for a long time! here's an link to an article from harvard all the way from 1987, telling us that bi people can be lesbians.

mspec lesbians and lesboys have always been welcome in the lesbian community since around the 1970's. the thing is that terfs chased them out during the lesbian separationist movement because in true terf fashion, they thought that any woman who even breathed near a man is automatically "not feminist enough".

The lesbians uncomfortable with mspec lesbians and lesboys probably also are uncomfortable with trans lesbians (transmasc, transfem, and transneutral), nonbinary lesbians, aspec lesbians, intersex lesbians, and multigender lesbians. heck those lesbians that you care about so much are probably terfs themselves

one more thing. if you see something you don't like, you have the option to scroll past it. the back button and tag filters are free, use it for fucks sake. you don't have to resort to being a dickhead to people you don't like. here's a reminder of the first rule of internet etiquette don't like, don't interact.

have you thought of that? its always the fucking terfs dude. get blocked idiot >:3

[bilesproblems]

I genuinely don't understand how there are nonbinary exclusionists. What business do you have being on their side?

You know from personal experience that gender is a social construct and can be fluid, or can be simultaneous. It's a vast spectrum. If orientation is based mainly off of gender, then orientation would also be at least partially a social construct, a vast spectrum, and have the capacity to be fluid or simultaneous. If you disagree with those being true for orientation, you would have to claim that they're not true for gender.

You're misgendered by every single exclusionist saying lesbian means "nonmen loving nonmen" as a way to discredit mspec lesbians. You're misgendered by every exclusionist who says that being attracted to multiple non-masculine genders is mono instead of mspec. Unless you view yourself as some type of girl, you're being misgendered. Mspec lesbians acknowledge that we, even as exclusive lesbians, are mspec because of our attraction to elsegender people. Why would you rather align yourself with people that so blatantly disrespect your gender identity than with people that you don't understand?

Every single exclusionist talking point is a result of TERFs. "Lesbians can't like men" is a result of lesbian separatism, a TERF led movement. "You're letting men into lesbian spaces!" is radfem fearmongering that women can't be safe around men ever, and relies entirely on bioessentialism. "Lesbian is the only sexuality that doesn't include men" blatant lie to anyone that can name more than 10 orientations, and enforces the importance of having an orientation completely void of men (again that's radfem fearmongering.) "But the definition!" it's a shitty definition. And it exists because of the way lesbian separatism recentered lesbian identity around men and not liking men instead of about the people we actually are attracted to. "You're just mspec and selfish for trying to invade the lesbian community" is radfem multiphobia that mspec women are tainted by their relationships with men, or betraying womanhood by choosing to associate with men. You gotta learn history enough to realize that the strict exclusion of men in lesbian attraction and lesbian identity is not how it's always been and also not a natural progression of language, it was a TERF movement. You're gonna be a lot more accepting of lesbian men and lesbians who unapologetically love men when you know that.

If you're nonbinary, you should not be an exclusionist. Everything exclusionists stand for disregards your identity.

[sirenium]

Just because you don't support certain queer identities, doesn't mean they'll stop existing. Close your eyes and plug your ears all you want, but lesbian men and mspec lesbians have always existed. Turian women and mspec gays have always existed. We will always exist, and there's no amount of history erasure, putting us on your DNIs, and harassment that will change that.

Also reminder that trying to erase queer people from society is a very queerphobic thing to do and exclusion only harms us all as a community. :3

[caeliangel]

WELCOME TO CAELIAN'S PAGE,

“I prefer that the patient also forgets the doctor, unless they relapse.”

screen reader ver coming !

‼️HELP PALESTINE‼️

RQS: CLOSED

"Anyone is free to kill himself, as long as I’m not around to see it.” (😭)

ask game

🥩 : one of my labels

🧠 : singer / band I like

🫀: song I like

🕸 : media I like

🦴 : book I like

Numbers = song in my likeds (1 to 224)

about, byf && dni under the cut!

| lesbian flags | gay flags | mspec flags | aro/ace flags | cluster b flags | butchfemme bi flags |

Pint: flags I made

⸺﹒ABOUT ME !!﹒⌣⌣⌣⌣⌣⌣⠀⚘️

🦇⋅ ⋅ ⋅ the winged one﹕ 𓆪

you can call me caelian / célian, or seph. I will always answer to those.

I am a franco-irish white indigenous pagan celt!

⚰️⋅ ⋅ ⋅ about the mind﹕ 𓆪

Nbpdtism + pdid + mixed origins.

🩸⋅ ⋅ ⋅ about the identity﹕ 𓆪

My main pronouns are he, hew, hy, she! I am a futchy boygirlflux bi intersex velaurian! Otherkin stuff includes but is not limited to: angelkin, vampkin, werewolfkin && more.

🕊⋅ ⋅ ⋅ about the interests... ﹕ 𓆪

trigun, nge, ff7, tloz, hello kitty, psychology, writing, poems, reading, literature, hoarding stuff and much more!

⸺﹒WILL & WONT DO﹒⌣⌣⌣⌣⌣⌣⠀⚘️

．．．will

hyperspecific terms

icons

gender && term coinning

contradictory labels

names finds

．．．won't

whatever makes me uncomfortable

tranx/id or any radqueer labels

terms for things I do not know well

paraphilic flags or terms

please note I can refuse anything for whatever reasons!

⸺﹒BYF & DNI !!﹒⌣⌣⌣⌣⌣⌣⠀⚘️

．．．byf

I am critical of my own interests and believe that things should be consumed critically.

I take everything personally and struggle to read tone!

Anyone can use my flags, just be respectful and credit me.

Dont steal them or change their meanings, thats all im asking. My flags have nothing to do with your queer discourse.

I support "contradictory" labels, this includes but is not limited to: mspec lesbian, mspec gay, lesboys, turigirls, etc.

I believe bisexuals can reclaim the d slur, the f slur, and use the double venus and double mars symbol. I also think butchfemmes are queer labels and not lesbian exclusive.

I am a battle axe bisexual as in, I fight and advocate against biphobia.

I am against separatists aswell and will not tolerate those who took away from bisexuals. Fuck biphobes.

．．．dni

Terfs, radfems, transmeds, truscums, gender skeptics, gender police, etc.

Believe in monosexual privilege, or use terms like "cis passing" "straight passing"

Anti xeno/neos and anti mogai/liom

Think non-binaries can't be gay/lesbians or don't support he/him lesbians or she/her gays

Fakeclaimmers

Against "contradictory labels"

Against otherkin, non-humans, therian, etc!

Under 13, unless I follow first.

If you demonize the cluster b (npd, bpd, hpd, aspd) and this includes if you belive that narcissistic abuse exist.

If you're going to judge me or mock me/my interests.

Anti-ageres.

Any kind of bigot.

Exclus or "Safequeers"

Radqueers

If you're here to argue or be a meanie whatever

⸺﹒TAGS !!﹒⌣⌣⌣⌣⌣⌣⠀⚘️

🦇︰︵︵ winged hoard : my hoard!

⚰️︰︵︵ rise the flag : flag making

🩸︰︵︵ gift for the beloveds : any requests

🥩︰︵︵ the food is here : flags I find gorgeous

🗝︰︵︵ memories : icons

💌︰︵︵ letters : inbox/asks/games

just for archival / pinterest purporse

🎀︰︵︵ combo flags

💗︰︵︵ orientations

💋︰︵︵ genders

❤️‍🩹︰︵︵ mad flags

🍬︰︵︵ plural flags

🐈‍⬛︰︵︵ otherkin flags

🦴︰︵︵ pint: caepiric (posted on pint)

🕷︰︵︵ butchfemme

coining event archives...

cael300foevent : tag for the 300 followers event.

cael400foevent : tag for the 400 followers event.

[t4tsalmon]

happy lesbian day to mspec lesbians, lesboys, boydykes, dykes, he/him lesbians, lesbians who don't use she/her, multigender lesbians, multigender lesbians who are also men/have masc genders, genderfluid lesbians, genderfluid lesbians who are men and/or have masc genders, nonbinary lesbians, genderqueer lesbians, transmasc lesbians, bear lesbians, hairy lesbians, fat lesbians, butch lesbians, futch lesbians, femme lesbians, aro lesbians, ace lesbians, aroace lesbians, aspec lesbians and all the other lesbians that the community tries to erase from existance because they hate it when lesbians identify in a way they don't like or aren't appreciated enough

You are cared for and more people support and accept you than you think, exclusionists are just a very loud minority, don't feel disencouraged to identify as you please, you have a place in the community, you have history, you always belonged and always will

[aphverse-confessions]

Most of these people advocating for casual lesbiphobia and misinformation in Minecraft fandom spaces (and furthermore implying that this is a STAPLE and REQUIREMENT of it) are not even lesbians; they don't have the means to send asks like that one. I know for a fact that some of you are not lesbians. Half of you blindly agreeing because you don't know any better and are afraid to ask/challenge, I know for a fact some of you are also not lesbians!

Advocating for ANY form of a lesbian identity that involves being attracted to men, particularly your use of 'mspec' and 'bi lesbians' here, even in fiction, is absolutely not a staple or requirement for a fandom. Not even in a big diverse fandom like MCYT. You are not a 'majority vote' and you do not have the power to dictate how progressive or diverse a fandom space is, nor do you have the power to 'chase people to twitter' to protect a fandom space that you aren't in charge of. Nor is this 'chasing you off' in return because this is Tumblr and a fandom and chances are in fandom you will meet at least one person who doesn't agree with you. But in the gentlest way possible, crying 'exclusionist!' is shutting yourself off from ever having a mature conversation about the issue at hand. Being open to new, emerging and changing sexualities and fluidities does not also mean actively disrespecting lesbians, and as a lesbian it's so frustrating to see you all be so okay with it.

It is not exclusionary to admit that lesbians can't also be bisexual/biromantic. It is not exclusionary. Simple as that. It's not exclusionary to say that you shouldn't be headcanoning your queer characters as 'bi lesbians' as if to suggest that lesbians can also be bisexual or biromantic in any way. It is not fair to suggest that being a lesbian is a spectrum that means you can be sexually attracted to or romantically attracted to men. If you are sexually attracted to different people but romantically only attracted to women, lesbian (much less mspec lesbian or bi lesbian) is not the word you use to describe that preference, especially if you yourself aren't a lesbian and are just trying to headcanon character sexualities. Even if you personally think that putting the word mspec label alongside the lesbian label (which actively contradict each other) is fitting, your lesbian friends very well can be and are allowed to be hurt. You are imlpying that the lesbian identity, which can be fluid and growing, yes, will always in some way shape or form include men. Whether that's romantic or sexual or included within bi identities, you are still spreading that narrative that our sexualities must always adjust to have men involved. When you project that on fictional characters, you are also spreading that rhetoric into fandom.

You can talk about queer women, split-attraction and mspec identities without lumping in the lesbian identity beside them. It is disrespectful to promote a 'bi lesbian' as an existent identity that has a place alongside your other headcanons. These characters can very well be biromantic/bisexual with a preference for women. They could be referred to as sapphic, WLW, so many more. There are so many identities that allow women to have preferences that involve men. There is a multitude of beautiful and good labels and words if you do want one that describe attraction to women on a variety of levels that still include bisexual people and still acknowledge mspec/romantic-sexual splits. Lesbian is not one of them.

The reaches that some of you guys are going to to try and involve men in lesbian's circles of sexual and romantic attraction is ridiculous. Some of you, I know for a fact, are fully grown adults who should know better. And yes, their ask opened themselves up to 'discourse' and 'an argument' because it wasn't good! Stop reducing queer conversations to 'oouuh more discourse I don't wanna fight ><' and comparing it to proshipping on tumblr? My god.

From the looks of these discord servers and the reblogs on that post, there's a distinct group of people in support who need to reconsider the language they use and consider adjusting the language in your headcanons. It's shameful to see the lack of research and respect around aphblr currently and even in discord servers. It is moreso sad finding out the amount of people in this fandom who are still trying to find ways to involve attraction to men into the lesbian identity. Bending over backwards to defend bi lesbian headcanons is just one of those ways. There are better and far better hills in queer discourse to die on.

I love my bi siblings (metaphorically) and my bi siblings love me. Even while identity is fluid and can change or develop, it is not biphobic or lesbiphobic to recognise that lesbians are not also bisexual in any way, shape or form. Lesbians do not also secretly have romantic or sexual attractions to men. We are not romantically attracted to men but sexually to women or the other way around; lesbian is not the word to describe a general attraction to women and also men sometimes too. Be respectful of your lesbian siblings in fandom spaces.

.