#Millon's subtypes

[happyk44]

[ID: Table titled "Clinical Features of Schizoid Personality Disorder". Table is split into three columns: Area, Overt Characteristics, and Covert Characteristics. There are six rows.

Area: Self-concept

Overt Characteristics:

compliant

stoic

noncompetitive

self-sufficient

lacking assertiveness

feeling inferior and an outsider in life

Covert Characteristics:

cynical

inauthentic

depersonalized

alternately feeling empty, robot-like, and full of omnipotent, vengeful fantasies

hidden grandiosity

Area: Interpersonal relations

Overt Characteristics:

withdrawn

aloof

have few close friends

impervious to others' emotions

afraid of intimacy

Covert Characteristics:

exquisitely sensitive

deeply curious about others

hungry for love

envious of others' spontaneity

intensely needy of involvement with others

capable of excitement with carefully selected intimates

Area: Social adaptation

Overt Characteristics:

prefer solitary occupational and recreational activities

marginal or eclectically sociable in groups

vulnerable to esoteric movements owing to a strong need to belong

tend to be lazy and indolent

Covert Characteristics:

lack clarity of goals

weak ethnic affiliation

usually capable of steady work

quite creative and may make unique and original contributions

Area: Love and sexuality

Overt Characteristics:

asexual, sometimes celibate

free of romantic interests

averse to sexual gossip and innuendo

Covert Characteristics:

secret voyeuristic interests

vulneraable to erotomania

tendency towards compulsive perversions

Area: Ethics, standards, and ideals

Overt Characteristics:

idiosyncratic moral and political beliefs

tendency towards spiritual, mystical and para-psychological interests

Covert Characteristics:

moral unevenness

occasionally strikingly amoral and vulnerable to odd crimes, at other times altruistically self-sacrificing

Area: Cognitive style

Overt Characteristics:

absent-minded

engrossed in fantasy

vague and stilted speech

alternations between eloquence and inarticulateness

Covert Characteristics:

autistic thinking

fluctuations between sharp contact with external reality and hyperreflectiveness about the self

autocentric use of language

/end ID]

Akhtar's profile

is it comprehensive? no, and obviously most schizoids won't hit all of these markers at once. but one of the main things i like about akhtar's profile as opposed to the idc/dsm, millon's subtypes or even guntrip's criteria, is that akhtar's profile manages to humanize schizoids in a way that the 'detached, cold robot person' models simply don't. you get a tangible feeling for the hidden inner world with this one, not just in name but also in contents, which is so central to understanding the schizoid experience. it shines a light on common self-contradictory tendencies you see with schizoids. it makes me a human being, despite stigma, despite the occasional self-perception

i think that's why i keep returning to it, kind of like an affirmation of my own humanity, my own contradictions. even if i don't relate to all of it

[bleue-flora]

Okay I know I said I wasn’t going to talk about discduo anymore, and I meant it. I did. But then I saw the clip of cc!Tommy [post] talking about them and a few people saying how clingy duo didn’t know that they hurt c!Dream, and how c!Dream was just this unreasonable psychopath who drove c!Tommy to want to kill himself… and well I just feel like I can’t stand by while Dream gets slandered after I was being nice to c!Tommy.

So... that brings us here, where to the best of my memory and ability, I’d like to look at c!Tommy as being part of the Antisocial Personality Disorder spectrum. Because here’s the thing, I’ve seen people refer to him as some golden boy, who’s caring and has a good heart, but I’m gonna just be honest, I just don’t see it. From what I can tell, we accuse c!Dream of having no empathy, but I don’t think I’ve really seen c!Tommy show any.

Now granted, I’m definitely no psychologist or whatever, and in the real world diagnosing these disorders is a very intense and extensive process. Especially because there is no true way to know whether an individual has empathy or not since we can’t exactly read their minds or feelings. So we really only have their behavior to study. Having said all that though, here’s why I actually think c!Tommy is perhaps the “psychopath” or since that term is no longer medically used, has Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) in which psychopathy is sometimes considered a subtype of.

And yes, while I am more than aware that I clearly have dsmp favorites and therefore am biased, I have to say when I was rewatching lore I didn’t expect to come to this conclusion, but something about this scene specifically in the finale bothered me.

[clip] Dream: “Why are you–why are you trying to—ruin everything all the time?” Tommy: “Cuz that was just me having fun with my friends, Dream, but I didn’t–I didn’t…” Dream: “Ah-you just stealing my shit and a—griefing my friends’ houses and breaking shit?” Tommy: “I just didn’t realize how much that hurt you.”

Because c!Tommy essentially just straight up admits to enjoying harming others. In fact, is so clueless he doesn’t grasp that killing and breaking and stealing and griefing hurts people. And like how can you possibly tell me that someone at the age of 18 years old can be so oblivious to other people’s suffering. Because he sure didn’t like it when people griefed or trapped his house, stole from him, and killed him, but somehow didn’t know that other people also didn’t like that. I mean, there’s just no way someone can be that clueless, I don’t care how old they are, even children know better than to just push their friend down the stairs because it’s funny. 

Like I don't think this is just the behavior of some flawed teenager, but of someone with a lack of empathy or ASPD, which the National Library of Medicine says this about, “Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a pervasive and enduring pattern of disregarding and violating the rights of others, typically emerging in childhood or early adolescence and persisting throughout an individual's life. This disorder significantly impacts interpersonal and occupational functioning, often leading to profound impairments in overall quality of life. Individuals with antisocial personality disorder frequently engage in criminal behavior and struggle to learn from the negative consequences of their actions” [source], And I don’t know about you, but doesn’t that sound like c!Tommy? Even further the Millon Theory has this to say about Antisocial (ADAntis) individuals, “Prone to lessened emotional resonance and a marked lack of empathy, those individuals evidencing ADAntis patterns actively seek out what they feel is their entitlement. ADAntis individuals often feel slighted by their circumstances and believe they must take in order to receive. They are impulsive by nature and uncaring about any damage they may inflict on others or themselves” [source].

In other words, someone who does and takes without thinking of others as if they are entitled to it. A great example of this is c!Tommy just up and killing c!Purpled for no reason and stealing c!Tubbo’s resources before they battle c!Dream again for the discs, where c!Tubbo notes that c!Tommy has a ‘shit moral compass’ [clip]. There is also the stream I love to bring up of c!Tommy stealing from c!Tubbo, killing his bee and then burning his house, and not giving anything but a half assed apology of 'I didn’t mean to burn your house down that much’ and ‘I didn’t mean to kill your bee I was just giving him a high five’ [post] and that’s how he treats his best friend, one he drags into war after war. c!Tommy more than once highlights how pain is real in the dsmp whether a non-canonical death or a punch and yet shows no regard for holding back hurting others, whether that's burning c!Techno [clip] or throwing a harming potion at him when he’s found in the basement [clip], lighting c!Dream on fire with a bucket of lava on the first day of Exile [clip & clip], killing c!Alyssa just cuz she’s there and a woman [clip], stabbing c!Dream as he fills in a creeper hole in c!Tommy's yard no less [clip], how bout just dragging c!Tubbo into wars to risk his life and experience pain over some replaceable discs… etc just as some examples off the top of my head I've have seen recently. 

I mean he doesn’t seem to care about others. When c!Tubbo needs help, where’s c!Tommy, like when he goes after c!Sam after he killed his husband and kidnapped his son he teams up with all the people who have killed him. Where the freak is c!Tommy - the one he fought so many wars with. Heck in the finale, c!Tubbo charges into what might be certain death, even after disagreeing with c!Tommy and reasoning that maybe they shouldn’t kill c!Dream [clip]. Oh and then of course, I've talked about his behavior towards c!Punz in the beginning too, of him helping clingy duo and then c!Tommy plotting to stab him the next minute [post]. 

And he struggles so hard to separate the value of items over the living [clip], seen no clearer than his struggle multiple times with putting the discs over c!Tubbo. And as I talked about when looking at c!Quackity at some point, people without empathy can love but it’s more like loving chocolate where they can enjoy it but there is no consideration for a candy bar’s well-being or feelings - people are more so just there to be used than cared about, and isn’t that what he does with c!Tubbo? With c!Techno? With c!Dream? Using them as a weapon and for their resources and then tossing them aside. Certainly not having their back when they need it, something c!Techno highlights pretty well in his speech about being a person [clip].

Perhaps our biggest clue should be how revolved his character arc is about understanding the value of items and how people are more important, as he finally in the finale gives up his discs for Tubbo’s life…

I don’t know maybe I’m wrong, but all I’m saying is I have yet to see a scene that really shows c!Tommy as caring or empathic, instead I see more so the telltale signs and behavior of someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder… who’s the psychopath now? *mic drop*

[szpd-polls]

To read about each subtype I'd recommend going to this wikipedia page

[hauntedselves]

hi, do you have any sources on how to differentiate between AvPD and covert NPD? i tried to look it up myself, but everything i find is just “yeah they are similar except npd is evil”

Here's what Millon says about his "Compensatory Narcissist" subtype, which is NPD with AvPD (& Passive-Aggressive PD) features:

"The early experiences of compensating narcissists are not too dissimilar to those of the avoidant and negativistic personalities. All have suffered “wounds” early in life. Rather than collapse under the weight of inferiority and retreat from public view, like the avoidant, [...] the compensating narcissist develops an illusion of superiority. [...] Like avoidant personalities, compensating narcissists are exceedingly sensitive to the reactions of others, noting every critical judgment and feeling slighted by every sign of disapproval. Unlike avoidants, however, they seek to conceal their deep sense of deficiency from others and from themselves by creating a façade of superiority. Though they often have a degree of insight into their functioning, they nevertheless indulge themselves in grandiose fantasies of personal glory and achievement. Some procrastinate in doing anything effective in the real world for fear of evaluation. Instead of living their own lives, they often pursue the leading role in a false and imaginary theater unrelated to the real world. When threatened with reality, they may defend themselves by becoming more and more arrogant and dismissive until the offending stimulus withdraws. If reality overturns their illusion completely, compensating narcissists may retreat more and more into an imaginary world of others who recognize their supposed accomplishments."

Summary: NPD's primary defence is a façade of superiority; they don't withdraw / avoid. AvPD's primary defence is withdrawal / avoidance; they don't feel or project superiority.

Here's a reddit post where someone was asking this question, and here's Elinor Greenberg's summary of covert narcissists, which may be helpful.

[cantuscorvi]

From Millon's subtypes of sadists, which one ( or more? ) fit Raum the most? How does his sadism show?

@nezumivc103221

( Prefacing this with the stipulation that sadism isn’t considered a personality disorder to be diagnosed but instead a sub-clinical personality trait. )

Honestly in Raum’s case it can be challenging to fit him into the typical definition of a sadist. I would say yes, Raum is generally sadistic, but he finds baselessly hurting someone to become boring quickly. He is choosy about it, he has to have some sort of interest in the person he’s hurting. If you think of one end of the spectrum being a literal torturer and one a safe BDSM practitioner — he is falling somewhere in the middle. What he’s willing to do crosses into the territory of both of those things, but it’s not the same.

Odd as it sounds, his sadism shows as a form of appreciation, affection, or attraction. If he is interested in someone, he has likely thought about making them feel bad in some way. Whether that’s hurting them physically or emotionally, humiliating or overwhelming them, giving them physical marks, making them cry, afraid, or apologise, feel embarrassed or ashamed, etc. Whether that's something they actively want or not. He can be surprisingly gentle or barbaric in his methods, but he will apply them in ways to target the specific weaknesses of people he knows well. (and to please himself and his preferences, naturally)

Raum feels pleasure in the process and the outcome. Dragging those emotions and states out of someone is rewarding for him. He finds beauty in it, something raw and honest that he himself finds extremely difficult to express aloud. In that way, it’s cathartic for him to experience someone else’s negative emotion vicariously. He finds a sense of connection in it that he is normally unable to cross, and struggles to put into words.

This reason is precisely why he can’t stand to see a stranger begging and blubbering and feels absolutely nothing in return for that. In that kind of case he is much more cold-blooded about the whole thing, he can toy around sure, but he won’t get much more from it than a feeling of petty maliciousness, superiority and contempt. He grows tired of it easily and would rather put the poor (boring) soul out of their misery.

If I had to pick from those archetypes, I suppose I would choose Tyrannical Sadism for him:

Relishes menacing and brutalizing others, forcing them to cower and submit; verbally cutting and scathing, accusatory and destructive; intentionally surly, abusive, inhumane, unmerciful.

[fangpunk]

where is that one post with the Millon's subtypes? it was like the subtypes but in more casual english words? /nfta

[panplatonic-moved]

[PT: Millon's Subtypes [AVPD Edition]

Note: all definitions are taken directly from Millon's writings, which are quite old, with only a few edits and rephrasings to make things more digestible to a modern audience.

���� The Phobic Avoidant — Have a general apprehensiveness counterbalanced with an avoidable, tangible cause. Problems often symbolized by a distasteful and specific object or circumstance.

has dependent traits

📃 The Conflicted Avoidant — Characterized by internal discord and dissension. They often fear being dependent. Often or easily unsettled. Typically unreconciled with themselves. They are hesitating, confused, tormented, paroxysmal, and embittered by unresolvable angst.

has negativistic traits

📃 The Hypersensitive Avoidant — They are intensely wary and suspicious. Usually alternating between panicky, terrified, edgy, & timorous; and thin-skinned, high-strung, petulant, and prickly.

has paranoid traits

📃 The Self-Deserting Avoidant — Tends to block or fragment their self-awareness by intense dissociation. Attempts to discard painful images and memories. Casts away untenable thoughts and impulses. Often suicidal.

has depressive traits

/End PT]

MILLON'S SUBTYPES [ AVPD EDITION ]

Note: all definitions are taken directly from Millon's writings, which are quite old, with only a few edits and rephrasings to make things more digestible to a modern audience.

📃 The Phobic Avoidant — Have a general apprehensiveness counterbalanced with an avoidable, tangible cause. Problems often symbolized by a distasteful and specific object or circumstance.

▐ has dependent traits

📃 The Conflicted Avoidant — Characterized by internal discord and dissension. They often fear being dependent. Often or easily unsettled. Typically unreconciled with themselves. They are hesitating, confused, tormented, paroxysmal, and embittered by unresolvable angst.

▐ has negativistic traits

📃 The Hypersensitive Avoidant — They are intensely wary and suspicious. Usually alternating between panicky, terrified, edgy, & timorous; and thin-skinned, high-strung, petulant, & prickly.

▐ has paranoid traits

📃 The Self-Deserting Avoidant — Tends to block or fragment their self-awareness by intense dissociation. Attempts to discard painful images and memories. Casts away untenable thoughts and impulses. Often suicidal.

▐ has depressive traits

More of Millon's subtypes:

[ASPD] [AVPD] [BPD] [DPD] [DPPD]

[HPD] [OCPD] [PPD] [NGPD] [NPD]

[SAPD] [SDPD] [STPD] [SZPD] [TPD]

[paethosbled]

me,,,   trying do do a psychological disorders headcanon on jade   :    girl you are one whole ass mess

[mischiefmanifold]

npd subtypes? are those diagnostic subtypes like not official but proposed but officials? Very curious I never heard of it before where did it come from

Hi anon!

Several psychologists over the years have proposed theories of different expressions of personality disorders, called subtypes. The most commonly known subtypes are those proposed by Theodore Millon.

The personality disorder subtypes are not diagnostic in any way, but they can potentially be helpful in determining harmful behaviors and the necessary treatment.

@hauntedselves has quite a few posts on Theodore Millon’s personality disorder subtypes.

[violentviolette]

So true about pd subtypes they always rubbed me the wrong way like rather then seeing the differences in people with pds as them simply being individuals with personalities outside of their disorder everything they do has to be an extension of their disorder.

It's all in bad faith and millon or whatever his name is can get bite chomp killed thanks

god literally tho!! like the minute u start to really think about it in a real and practical way and what purpose these actually serve and how professionals are actually categorizing them its just so blatent that its just all built on ableism in order to further pathologize and stigmatize us

and like I understand why people gravitate towards these things because as humans we very much are prone to parsing ourselves into very neat and specific categories to feel validated in but like. its just not worth it and it isn't supported by evidence based science or medicine

[tixij]

Maybe it’s just because I distance myself from the “mental illness club” on this site, but I think it’s kinda funny I haven’t seen people sink their claws into the millon's subtypes of PD’s. You’d think a website obsessed with labels would love to hang their hat on something that relies on archetypes and is basically the MBTI of the psychology field.  

[martianmoonboy]

Trigger warning: emotional abuse, abandonment, parentification, emotional incest

Millon's subtypes of DPD rewritten (feel free to reblog with the ones that you relate to the core of; I'm not rewriting Ineffectual or Immature because I don't relate to those variants and don't want to speak for people who do):

Disquieted (avoidant traits):

This dependent wants to be close to people, but has been so traumatized in early childhood by emotional or physical abandonment that they can no longer enjoy close relationships without fear, or repress their anger when they feel their needs aren't being met. They feel horrible for their negative feelings, especially after outbursts, and try to make up for it by appeasing their depended(s).

Accommodating (Depressive (outdated personality disorder) Traits):

This dependent doesn't believe they can get people to stay without excessive people-pleasing and doing whatever it takes for people to like them, even if it means going against their own values. This is the effects of growing up with one or two egocentric caregivers who made them earn love. They believe they have to perform to receive love from their depended(s).

Selfless (Masochistic (another outdated personality disorder) Traits):

This dependent's self-worth is tied up in being able to meet everyone else's needs, as well as the way their depended (and others, but mostly their depended) sees them. They gain their sense of identity from other people, likely because other people have been telling them who and what they are their whole lives. They usually grew up with (a) selfish caregiver(s) who didn't care about how their actions affected others and were parentified, so they have an unhealthy sense of responsibility and only can view themselves well when their dependeds are pleased with them.

[urfavehasnpd]

dan hibiki has npd? as someone who has bpd and is suspecting themselves of having hpd and npd/npd traits as well, i think dan has npd as well: mainly, two subtypes of npd, one described by millon (compensatory narcissist) and one described by james f masterson (closet narcissist, which has more pronounced borderline features). SORRY IF THIS IS LONG i'm just a big fan of street fighter and project my cluster b disorders onto them

Done!

[hauntedselves]

Subtypes of SzPD

See also: Millon's subtypes; more on languid SzPD; Greenberg's subtypes.

From Zachary Wheeler, Treatment of Schizoid Personality [dissertation] (2013)

[imtherealsebastiansatan]

Child and adolescent psychotherapist here! I am not under APA guidelines so making my guess on Sebastian Stan’s presentation is not outside my professional guidelines to do so. My impression here is he presents very like a coverted type of narcissist. Thinned-skinned in nature. Passive aggression is a common symptom trait of this subtype. The DSM 5 has a great description that might help some of your followers, if interested. Dr Theo Millon devised amazing measures to determine subtypes. I would also ask followers explore his superb work. Diagnosis without face to face assessment is always ethically grey, but most psychological scientists will formulate based on patterns of behavior. This is fine to do, but only if it’s for speculation, and not to formally diagnose. Thanks. Interesting blog. Quite the fan of Bucky! Not sure about Mr Stan!

Thank you!

[dividedego]

Akhtar's profile

is it comprehensive? no, and obviously most schizoids won't hit all of these markers at once. but one of the main things i like about akhtar's profile as opposed to the idc/dsm, millon's subtypes or even guntrip's criteria, is that akhtar's profile manages to humanize schizoids in a way that the 'detached, cold robot person' models simply don't. you get a tangible feeling for the hidden inner world with this one, not just in name but also in contents, which is so central to understanding the schizoid experience. it shines a light on common self-contradictory tendencies you see with schizoids. it makes me a human being, despite stigma, despite the occasional self-perception

i think that's why i keep returning to it, kind of like an affirmation of my own humanity, my own contradictions. even if i don't relate to all of it