#Mandalore Discourse

[atomicpalacedragonpeach]

Something that drives me absolutely batshit when it comes to fanfics including anything about the New Mandalorians is that almost every single one of them seem to think the New Mandalorians are either a new sect or that Satine Kryze is somehow directly responsible for them/their creation. Because, unless one of the other media types says otherwise and I just am unaware, the New Mandalorians have been in power on Mandalore for over 700 years by the time of the clone wars. In fact, they came into being as a direct consequence of the Dral'Han/Annihilation/Excision, followed by Republic occupation of Mandalore. They turned to peace as a way to regain some level of independence and power within their own system. As far as I can tell, it was the Republic that forcibly demilitarized them and exiled those who weren't willing to give up their warrior ways. The New Mandalorians reluctantly gave up some aspects of warrior ways because they wanted the Republic to get out of their hair. You cannot tell me that they gave up the entirety of their cultural practices, though, when the few bits of Mandalore we see in the Clone Wars shows obvious signs of warfare through their art (specifically the carving of Mandalorians fighting the Jedi) and the fact that Satine could easily identify a specific dialect of Mando'a.

Now, if someone wanted to be pissed off that all the New Mandalorians we see happen to be white with blonde hair and blue eyes, then I would agree that it's super sketchy considering their past. However, I would like to point a few things out. First, the Mandalorians didn't exile their own people, the Republic, who is known to be prejudiced already, did that. Second, this is a show that had one of the few women who wore a hear covering bomb a temple. It also has two dark haired, dark skinned, poor sisters with a last name of Martez becoming spice runners for a gang. I think it's safe to say the show isn't great about prejudice. I think it would 100% be on-brand for the show to have the strictly-peaceful people with a violent and bloody past be seen and blond and white. But even beyond this, we hdont see a whole lot of diversity in the Mandalorian people, both New and Deathwatch, in the Clone Wars either.

I just really drives me crazy that so many writers dumb all of the complicated and rich history and politics of the Mandalorian people to Deathwatch and New Mandalorians=bad, and True Mandalorians=good. I mean, it's as if people think that fighting and armor and weapons are all of what makes up Mandalorian culture. I mean, it completely ignores that Beskar is expensive shit, let alone all of the weapons. I would be willing to bet that, at Mandalore's height, only the rich were able to truly afford beskar beyond like a small piece because it is/was so expensive. It ignores the language, food, art, music, and especially whether the people thrived. Whether you love or hate Satine, she was able to make Mandalore thrive while she was in power, regardless of all the shit she had to deal with.

[phoenixyfriend]

Don't drink the propaganda juice, learn the actual makeup of Mandalore (hint, all characters of color either died 3-4000 years prior to canon, were introduced after people got mad about TCW's Mandalore being white, or are Fett clones).

Anyway, you can't arbitrarily apply the diversity beam to Jaster's Good Ol' Boys White Man Club and not Satine's We Have Three Character Models On A Shoestring Budget City.

[moxie-girl]

Star Wars clone wars-era tumblr dashboard simulator! this meme format is so old sorryyyy

🌳 treehuggr Follow

hate hate HAAATE that holoblr is so core-centric and you’re expected to post in basic or people just comment asking you to translate. I should be able to post in shryiiwook.

⬜️ senatesux-deactivated00192…

Hey, your choice of Shyriiwook as an “exotic” language to post in ties inherently into old colonialist views on Wookies and I need you to be aware of that, if it wasn’t intentional. Many people on the holonet these days…

Read More

🌳 treehuggr Follow

hi! op here. I’m a wookie.

🪐 outer-rim-4lyfe Follow

HELPPPPPP

#core holoblr users stop assuming everyone is human challenge

36,923 notes

🛸 fuckthatoldman Follow

ok but whys grandmaster yoda kinda… 🥵🥵

🧑🏾‍🚀 sora-the-explora Follow

Everybody on here claiming to be attracted to GILFs is lying except for this guy

#everyone unfollow me i wanna be alone with them

6,969 notes

5️⃣ 55555555 Follow

some of the ppl posting on here against clone rights are so funny like do you have any idea how many clones are on holoblr?? have fun losing like all ur followers lmao

#what do u think we’re doing between deployments??? just standing around waiting to fight????? #clone rights #cloneblr

84,255 notes

🌃 coru-ssant Follow

I sure hope my pet piece of flimsi is doing well! good thing I left my apartment window open so he could get some fresh air while I was at work :)

🌃 coru-ssant Follow

by the stars this can’t be happening

3,206 notes

🧋 bubble-tea-bounty Follow

⚒ keldabekisses Follow

#anyways vote vanilla extract for mand’alor it’s what jaster would’ve wanted #mandalore #mando discourse #<- for those of u who have it filtered

17,384 notes

🦾 hero-with-many-fears Follow

anakin skywalker is 22??? he should be at da club….

2,836 notes

🌌 posts-from-a-darker-galaxy Follow

so was anyone gonna tell me they found out the chancellor is a sith or was I supposed to learn it from a CNL skit???

🌝 pizzathehutt Follow

posts that make you read op’s url

🚀 hyperdriven Follow

#op if you go asking at enough temples eventually a sith might answer

157,239 notes

[limnsaber]

Ok not to bring up “the Covert is a cult” discourse or w/e but a large part of the way cults maintain control is by limiting information right? And every time we see Din ask the Armorer about something she gives him the truth?

I know we make jokes an Din knowing next to nothing about the Star War, but the truth is that Din is incredibly knowledgeable about what is relevant to his people and his way of life. He’s incredibly skilled, and we only ever see him out of his depth in situations where any person who wasn’t Jedi or Jedi-adjacent would be as well!

He may not know much about the Jedi or fractured Mandalorian factions, but they were literally living underground, in hiding, for fear of death upon being found — and that fear was realized when they were. Do we even know Din spoke basic when he was first rescued?? There’s a different answer to this on a Doylist level with Din as our story’s protagonist, but to a fractured Clan of people who have had to remain insular to survive, I’m not surprised that Din (who was a foundling) doesn’t know what we know about the rest of Mandalore pre-Imperial decimation.

[marmota-b]

Justice for Fenn Shysa!

Well, that may be too strong a wording, but, seriously, Fenn Shysa deserves a lot more respect than he seems to get these days. Turns out I have a lot of thoughts and feelings on the subject, but the thing is, they're based on canon. (Legends canon, but considering how little new Disney canon ended up giving us, that still is where most Mandalorian discourse is happening to begin with.)

Fic writers (at least on AO3) who are into Mandalorians seem to love, love, love Jaster Mereel. They seem to think Jaster Mereel would have fixed everything, if only he had lived. There is an image of Jaster Mereel people have built up, and which they love, and hold up as a metric of what a good Mandalorian and Mand'alor is like.

I love it myself, but. But. Most of it is pure fanon.

Fenn Shysa's accomplishments aren't. Fenn Shysa is canonically great. Where are all the Fenn Shysa fics?!

Fenn Shysa, who incidentally has a lot in common with Jaster, actually did fix everything.

And it's a very interesting comparison to make because the two actually do have a lot in common, on a superficial level. They're both Mand'alors who started out as policemen, and don't come from a big established clan. But it seems to me that they took very different lessons from their experiences, and as far as I can see Shysa comes out the better from the comparison. Mereel, heralded as the reformer, by all appearances (including what lessons Jango seems to have taken from him) still doubled down on certain hardwired Mandalorian stock responses. Shysa moved on from them. Shysa overcame the biggest Mandalorian shortcomings.

(As far as I can see, the only thing Jaster might canonically have over him is taking in a ward (did he ever actually adopt Jango?) when Shysa remained without any family. Considering the truly hard times Shysa lived in, considering he spent a good deal of his adult years as a guerrilla fighter desperately trying to save people from the Empire, I can't find it in myself to hold it against him.)

And it's also interesting for a Mandalorian fan inclined to draw never-stated conclusions to compare them just by how they present. To look at Jaster Mereel, and look at Fenn Shysa, and see one wearing the colour of justice, and the other the colour of duty. Neither is necessarily wrong, of course, but in-universe, it probably does say something about them. We first meet Jaster fighting a civil war, bent on eliminating his opponents; we first meet Shysa freeing enslaved people. Their reasons for fighting differ considerably. And so do the results of their actions.

And it's the actions where Shysa shines. Where it's Shysa who is the real reformer.

Fenn Shysa actually united Mandalore. If you draw conclusions from the shifting canons the exact same way you do with Jaster, Fenn Shysa actually managed to work with all the factions and gain their respect: the fact that he was an undisputed Mand'alor after the fall of the Empire is Legends canon, not just fandom speculation of what the situation was and could have been.

Based purely on actual established canon events, Fenn Shysa was just about the best Mand'alor ever. Not flawless, of course, but better than most Mandalorians, able to rise above their common failings that have kept dooming them all throughout their history. He did not hold grudges, he wasn't isolationist, he wasn't inseparably married to the idea of warrior glory, while still maintaining warrior honour and a certain sort of proud independence. But he was not too proud to ask the Rebel Alliance / New Republic for help when Mandalore was attacked and overwhelmed - and not too proud to work with them. He also forgave and helped his enemies when it turned out they may have had somewhat justifiable reasons for their attempts at conquest, and immediately offered them Mandalorian help in reclaiming their own home. (Isn't one of the biggest failings of the Mando'ade how much they hold grudges, dooming any attempts at fruitful collaboration through old blood feuds and petty disagreements?) And he worked with the nascent New Republic, yet without giving in an inch of Mandalorian independence. He united the things the various factions wanted: he was an honourable warrior upholding the Supercommando Codex, he achieved peace within the system and peace with the Republic, and he gave rabid traditionalist Mandalorians actual wars to fight in which Mandalorians could prove their mettle before the Galaxy - just not destructive wars of conquest. It's not like the GFFA is short on villainous factions to try and stop.

It's Tobbi Dala who touches on it out loud in the comics, not Shysa specifically, but he obviously echoes Shysa's ideals: Their highest purpose as warriors is to protect. That's what the Resol'nare say, nothing else. Shysa started out, in the Clone Wars, as more or less a mercenary, like Jaster, but I think, outside of situations when he did have to be pragmatic about things like making a living, he outgrew it into something even greater.

Fenn Shysa may not have written a neat manifesto, but I bet he actually lived it. He was the best Mand'alor Mandalore had had in ages. Fenn Shysa was exactly the Mand'alor the Mando'ade needed, when they most needed him. He revived their spirit and their purpose after centuries of strife and defeats.

More respect for Fenn Shysa, please. Much, much more.

(I guess the unquestioning love of Jaster at Shysa's expense is excellent proof of the truth of that one Mandalorian saying: "He who writes, remains." 🙄)

[authortobenamedlater]

This is sorta where my Din and Bo hang out right now.

I think Tom and Chyler skipped this part and jumped right in the deep end 😆

personally i find the binary of “lets make every relationship in media gay” vs “no the creator was trying to say something important about friendship” stifling …. you guys are completely ignoring the possibility of platonic-romantic limbo where you would definitely kiss your friend if they asked but by god you are not going to make a move first . friends can and should be a little in love with each other actually

[sidhebeingbrand]

Time to Be Normal about Mandos on Main again

I really only have a main these days

TIME TO BE NORMAL ABOUT MANDOS ON MAIN AGAIN

This time it's about the presumption of loss built into their culture as defined by Karen Traviss and possibly hinted at in the new Didney canon

Blanket disclaimer that I am Aware of the Problematic Aspects of the Republic Commando Books. Like, I read the first trilogy, i saw them, I was there, Frodo.

But without those books and this author, we don't get Aayhan. Which is… it's neat.

hOkAY so in the RC books and KT's surrounding writing there are a few concepts that really Make mandos for me? Like as differentiated from any Noble Warrior People #253. 'A strong warrior code' is great and all but the specificity of the Mandalorian wordlview is…

I just like them, okay, I think they're neat.

SO ONE THING: is that Mandalorians used to worship gods. They don't anymore, but the concepts of them remain-- the god who represented the worst things in the universe, the one who would 'kill' your spirit, was Arasuum. A god of sloth and stagnation. The word arasuum still means 'stagnation' in Mando'a the same way that 'jovial' still means a good time bro even though the worship of Jupiter has strongly fallen off.

There was a trickster god, too, more neutral, and the Best god, the one mandalorians strove to emulate, was Kad Ha'rangir. Literally translates to 'the blade that makes ash?' A destroyer god, and a god of creation. The ideas are linked in the Mandalorian language-- creation comes from destruction, is only POSSIBLE with destruction. The greatest evil is everything staying the same. The greatest good is making new, and that comes with the end of things that are old.

(It is probably a heretical view that one needs a balance between the two-- Mandalorian stability and tradition are old. The language lives and gains new words and new ways to use those words but it has stayed more comprehensible than, say, Basic, which seems to have undergone massive levels of change within Yoda's lifetime. Is that not the hand of Arasuum? I bet the religious arguments about that ended up with the opposing philosophers in traction and that was the Really Polite Discourse)

What remains in the culture now that the gods are gone is this-- that the universe is not a battle between Good and Evil, Kind and Cruel, but Stagnation and Creation.

(ANd I watch The Mandalorian which is not bound to the concepts in the RC, I know that, but I also see: Bo Katan sits on her throne, staring at nothing, defeated, in the hands of Arasuum Bo Katan rises to the moment, throws off her stagnation, becomes Active, becomes Mandalorian once more.)

But anyway ANOTHER THING is that KT writes the Mandalorians as spiritually nomads, no matter how stable their current living situation. The only TRUE home a Mandalorian is guaranteed is within the Manda after death. A Mandalorian is not bound to a planet. A Mandalorian is Mandalorian because they have a mandalorian soul. And to have a Mandalorian soul is to know that at any time half the galaxy is pissed off at you, and you're pissed off at the other half.

There is a cultural expectation-- somewhat lost in later days by Mandalorians who live on Mandalore, but certainly firmly embedded in the minds of the remnant Ha'at'ade, the last of the true Mandalorians, who lost their civil war and saw power and structure ripped away from them.

In fact, their culture overlaps strongly with the Jedi here: they know loss is inevitable, and has to be accepted. That's one of the REALLY HARD lessons of the Jedi, too!

The difference, and likely one of the reasons* that Jedis and Mandos have Historically Not Gotten Along, is their reaction to that principle. Mandalorians don't limit their attachment to the things they know they may lose. Oh, no, they go full bore the other way-- they pour their time and souls into the things they love, and they defend them bitterly, and when they lose them if there is a tangible culprit for that loss they will pour their rage and grief upon that culprit--

(*There are a lot of reasons to be fair)

But then when the vengeance is done, the thing is over. What's lost is lost. Rebuild if you can. Salvage if you can. But you shouldn't be trying to re-enact the past! (TOR. Looking at YOU TOR) You are building the future. You are adapting, because that is how a culture is immortal. The Mandalorian word for immortal, going back to god words, is dar'asuum, and that 'asuum' is-- yeah-- straight from arasuum. No Longer Stagnant: an exulted state where you rise above your inherent inertia.

You can't avoid building because what you build will be destroyed-- you're robbing the future. You're robbing your soul.

Mandos know that everything lovely ends in time, to make room for the new; if it didn't, it would be the most poison fruit. If you can't let go, Arasuum's sleepy fingers twine around your heart, make you slow, complacent. You fight for what you love because you are a warrior, and the Taung's ashes burn inside your blood, but when it is gone it is gone.

Even a home.

(Din Djarin says: You'll have to move the covert. Paz Vizsla says: This is the way)

And you rebuild it from the ash, if it's practical to do so. You break down the old forge and remake it into the new one. You take the shards of glass that were people and homes and infrastructure and the very ground of your planet and you make new things. But you don't rebuild the same. What a fool's errand. What a stagnant thing.

SO THESE THINGS are encapsulated in one of the signature Mando Cultural Experiences, which is Aayhan.

Aayhan is that moment of perfect fulfillment-- of happiness, of peace -- in which you feel the ghosts of those who are not there to see it with you. In which what you have lost tangles with what you have gained. In which you Remember as you Feel. Joy laced with pain to make the joy more piquant.

It's just such-- of course. Of course they have a word for that, of course they IDENTIFY that because what do could you possibly have, if you have lost nothing? Loss is part of life, it is essential, it is what keeps the galaxy turning and the stars burning until they too end. The rage keeps your heart pumping. The threat of it keeps you sharp. The grief throws your joy in brighter relief. Without the danger and the reality of knowing Everything Ends you are a stagnant shell.

Loss is assumed, in their language, in their culture, in the stories they tell and the sensations they seek. And it's when this comes out-- this shape of a culture that is NOT like the one we live in, that is not common in the Galaxy they exist in, which is just-- Mando-- I don't know, it just gets to me. I feel things.

(And Paz Vizsla demands to know why his people should fight on behalf of who have taken from them, due to whom they have lost so much, and it is a rhetorical question: he will answer it himself in the next breath: "Because we are Mandalorians!" )

[oswlld]

✨2023: A Summary✨

Post your most popular and/or favorite edit/gifset for each month (it’s okay to skip months!)

Tagged by (1)@casualavocados, (2)@pranink, (3)@alexshenry, & (4)@forcebook 🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼 YAYY thank you all for tagging me, happy to tackle this for the third yr in a row (here’s 2022 and 2021; it’d be fun to look back and see if i agree with the choices today)

--

January

most popular — the mandalorian: s3 grogu

favorite(s) — vice versa: basic process of a colorist series

February

most popular — my school president: random screencap #1

favorite(s) — my school president: a lover’s discourse

March

most popular — the mandalorian: the mines of mandalore

favorite(s) — my school president: periodic table 1+2

April

most popular — doctor who: langston hughes

favorite(s) — midnight museum: the payphone & vice versa: talay’s top outfits

May

most popular — our skyy 2 bad buddy/atots: a self-portrait in letters

favorite(s) — jump started a book redesign series over here

June

most popular/favorite(s) — taylor swift: speak now tracklist

technically edited this in may and took a break from editing that month

July took a break

August took a break

September took a break

October

most popular/favorite(s) — vice versa: end of an era

it was the first edit back from break and the only edit that month

November

most popular — doctor who: the star beast

favorite(s) — last twilight: episode three braille

December

most popular — doctor who: the giggle

favorite(s) — last twilight: ?/.

--

tagging @morkofday @seatawinan @seatawinans @dribs-and-drabbles (for all your analysis, would love to see what popped off and what your personal favs are!) @i-got-the-feels @jimmysea @moonkhao @athousandbyeol @buffonia @taeminie

[tarisilmarwen]

ah yes, Mandalore. The major cultural world of a people infamous for being brutal warrior crusaders surely is far more important than THE galactic capital and home of the Senate and Jedi Temple.

like is the intent that we must side with Ahsoka? are we meant to recognize that her focus on Maul and Mandalore is in fact a bad thing but the execution is just botched?

The intent SEEMS to be that we're supposed to agree at least in principle with Ahsoka--that by prioritizing Coruscant (a planet of trillions, the location of the Jedi Temple and the Senate and all the governing heads of state) and the rescue of the Chancellor, the Jedi are "playing politics" and "not thinking/caring about the little people of the galaxy", which is such an unfair framing of the argument Obi-Wan even says it ONSCREEN. (Which is the ONLY defense he's allowed to offer, man should have been able to verbally smack Ahsoka into next year.)

Ahsoka's whole Walkabout Arc with Trace and Rafa and behind the scenes commentary from Filoni also ties into this; Ahsoka was supposed to have had a bit of "spiritual enlightenment" on her journey, realized the core of why she's a Jedi and that she cares about having compassion and fighting for the people that the Republic overlooks. The implication with her argument with Obi-Wan suggests that we're supposed to view the other Jedi as having also overlooked the "ordinary" people, they're distant, they're out of touch, blah blah blah.

Neglecting of course that, 1. That's not remotely true, and 2. The reason they haven't had much time to devote to their normal civilian services lately is because there's only 10,000 of them spread thin across the galaxy putting out a million tire fires an hour because of THE WAR.

The whole framing of the back half of S7 just has this veneer of leaning into the icky fanon "The Jedi lost their way/brought about their fall bc of their own actions" sentiment, instead of properly framing the issue as, "And this is how it was so easy for Palpatine to convince the galaxy to overlook their brutal murder down to the last child."

It's frustrating because for the most part? Filoni's behind the scenes commentary on Star Wars lines up exactly with Lucas's. And then like 15% of the time he busts out a Steeped Too Long In The Fandom Bullshit take that's just like, "What."

So yeah, this has been a fun week in Star Wars Discourse.

[cassatine]

next year on Mandalore | The Mandalorian (+ Clone Wars + Rebels)

This is what it's like to be Bo-Katan Kryze: you make all the wrong choices. You find ever-new, spectacular ways to fuck up. You do it all over again, and again, and again.

Rinse, repeat.

feat. Extreme Amounts of Mandalorian Fuckery, the Kryze Sisters' Political Philosophy Debate Club, History Discourse, and Survivor Guilt. introducing Bo-Katan Kryze: Founder of the Tarre Vizsla Hate Club, and The Concordia Exile as New Mandalore’s Original Sin. answering pressing, vital questions such as: Whatever Happened to Korkie Kryze, and How Many Times Can Mandalore Be Carpet Bombed Before It Takes?? (The Answer May Surprise You!!), and Is Special Sword Ownership A Good Basis for Government Anyway. there are War Crimes and Implied Cannibalism and A Very Important Tea Set, and for some reason, Tarre Vizsla as Space King Arthur.

[fellthemarvelous]

Satine Kryze Defense Squad

Ugh.

I don't know why Satine hate needed to show up on my dash, but why do these weirdos insist on referring to her as a dictator and accusing her of committing genocide? Gross.

Immediate block!

I don't have time for that negativity. Or the asinine ignorance that comes with this anti-Satine discourse.

Duchess Satine is one badass lady who turned Mandalore from a bloodthirsty warrior society into a peaceful planet.

She was right about the Clone Wars from the very beginning.

She was targeted for assassination by Death Watch, the Separatists, AND the Republic because she refused to get involved with the war.

But yeah, she's the dictator for trying to protect her people from more violence and unnecessary death because she saw the Clone War for the game it was from the very beginning. Got it. 🙄

[browneyesbrighteyes]

I’m actually gonna make a longer post. 

I’m realizing I’m not upset with the outcome of this season so far so much as I am with the way we’ve gotten here. 

Back when S2 ended there was a lot of discourse about whether or not Din even had any story left to tell. And at the time I would have emphatically said YES! Of course!

Because you had a man who had just lost everything. His child (though he had yet to admit it), his creed. Who had a responsibility he didn’t want (the darksaber) and who was facing being alone again (something he’d been used to before but, through Grogu, had grown accustomed to being without). 

And if this season had been TBOBF ep 5 and s3 eps 1&2, but told more slowly and from DIN’S point of view? I would have been okay with it. But I wanted to see HIS motivations and HIS struggles with accepting these changes.

I wanted to see him grapple with taking his helmet off. Even if he ultimately decided to bathe in the waters and redeem himself, I want to see him get to that decision and why.

I wanted to see him grapple with the responsibility of the darksaber. Even if he ultimately decide it was a responsibility he didn’t want and did give it back to Bo-katan eventually. Bo-Katan could have even been there on Mandalore and for part of this, but it could have been from HIS point of view.

I wanted to see him realize he didn’t want to be alone. So yes, I don’t think Grogu should have been in most of this season. It’s clear now they have no purpose for him other than to do a million backflips. He could have still eventually returned to Grogu and Grogu could have still been given the same choice, but it should have happened in The Mandalorian and he should have been absent for at least part of the season (we know this was Disney. I hate them for this). 

The story could have been EXACTLY the same in terms of overall plot and outcomes. But the way they did it has me so disappointed. It’s like I’m talking myself into liking this season. And I don’t hate it. There’s a lot that is fun and moments I’ve really enjoyed. I’ll give them the chance to see where these last two episodes go and am hoping we get Din’s POV once more. and again, I don’t hate the outcomes. 

But I miss Din Djarin. He’s RIGHT THERE, and I still miss him.

[noddytheornithopod]

Got mixed feelings about the Ahsoka finale. Liked some stuff, but other stuff I'm not so sure on. Spoilers under cut

Okay first thing... the episode felt kinda cheap? Like, I could tell this was on a TV budget, lol. Some episodes have looked pretty good, but for whatever reason this just wasn't working for me?

Maybe I also just am still getting used to seeing animated stuff in live-action. Seeing the green flames finally show up is a relief, but it still felt kind of strange.

My other thing is, I'm not exactly sure I understand what block Sabine has overcome to be able to use the Force properly now? It was kind of jarring to suddenly see her do all this stuff.

Oh yeah, and a lot of this is down to unfortunate circumstances but... Baylan only got one scene? And we only get a slight tease of what he might be after (something Mortis related :v)? Was surprised we barely got any Shin, too.

I did like the zombie troopers even if the action scenes looked a bit cheap. Morgan dying I'm indifferent on, also hey "blade of Talzin." Thrawn explicitly mentions he knew Anakin, and clearly hints he knows of the Vader connection.

Still not sure how I feel about Ahsoka's place in everything, we got Morai finally but Filoni's really teasing the mystery box with her here (and now Baylan, lol). Also, hi Anakin.

I admit I do find the irony of Ezra being the only one to make it back quite amusing. Him making the new lightsabre inspired by Kanan's is pretty cool, too.

It is kind of weird that Sabine only talked about her decision with Ahsoka, though. That conversation resolved that aspect for them thankfully, but to know that Ezra's not gonna know anything until whenever they're together next is... yeah. Who even knows when that will be? If there's a Season 2, I feel like that's gonna not happen for a while, lol.

Oh yeah, some more clarification of the timeline with Mandalore and the Purge. It sounds like it happened at the end of the war, so at least they got to have like 4-5 years of having the upper hand before Gideon and co bombed the fuck out of them.

Maybe it's just me but they felt kind of vague on how much Ezra knew about Thrawn and the Nightsisters? This episode clarified it, but it was hard to tell in his previous appearances.

Am curious as to the specifics of what Morgan went through, and what the sacrifice those Night Troopers made was. It seems like they're not dead, but they do something that renders them subservient to her and makes them undead. IDK how similar Marrok is, he seems kinda different.

Am sure the Thrawn book discourse will continue, but everything's lining up and playing as I expected. He's all in on the Empire, but he's genuine when he says he believes it's for the security of the galaxy. For those of you worried about the Grysk, there's a bone for you. :P

Not sure when "long live the Empire" developed though, cuz if it was post-Endor then wonder how Thrawn got it, maybe it's something they prepared to say if things went to shit, or more weird dream shit is happening, lol.

So... yeah, that's the end of Ahsoka, presumably the first season of at least another. Kind of average in the end for me, I guess. I like more than I don't, but I do have a bit of Filoni fatigue at this point, especially with the amount of mystery boxes, lol.

Okay with Sabine and the Force, upon reflection I realise it's meant to be because Ahsoka showed she trusted her and had faith in her. Definitely think it could've landed better, but I guess I at least get it now.

Also, RIP to learning about where Ahsoka was between Malachor and the end of the Galactic Civil War. IDK what Mr Filoni think, but I personally think it's a pretty important detail to acknowledge, because why wasn't she with the Rebellion then?

[kenobussy]

Actually nvm i will submit to the discourse. I always assumed that Kalevala had different politics and dynamics then other mando planets, much like we see concord dawn having a unique structure in legends. I know RC isnt canon anymore, but it was when Satine was introduced, so im going under the assumption that the fragmented state of mandalore system politics was in mind when writing her. So i always saw satine as really ruling/speaking for the domed cities and kalevala, not other planets or the rest of Mandalore necessarily. Like id think what we see in tcw, and now in 3.1, reflects kalevalen ideas and culture. Clearly there's no single unified mandalorian culture. So while satine does abstain from physical violence, the stark lack of anything we see from other (non kalevalen) mandalorians implies to me a political or social violence. Not saying that was her intention, but obviously exiling an entire sect of your people with thousands of years of tradition didnt really go well. (Dont come for me saying warrior societies arent real cultures im not doing that one, star wars isnt real life and no im not advocating for a return to feudalism irl or whatever)

[secreteviltwin]

im way too fired up about mandalore discourse rn. i dont think ive ever cared about star wars discourse before in my life but this one is just too juicy and insane

[amuser-96]

I agree with @phoenixyfriend that while there’s a lot of white New Mandalorian characters, if we’re also looking at Legends, it’s likewise true of the True Mandalorians. I mean, other than the True Mandalorians coming from Concord Dawn that is, and Jaster and Jango are the only two mentioned coming from the planet.

The thing is—Jango’s parents in Legends Canon? They’re not considered Mandalorian. So you should really take Jango’s parents off any list of poc Mandalorians that you have, because they’re not real Mandalorians. And Jango’s sister, I mean, Death Watch did forcibly made Arla into an assassin, a position that nobody else wants. Arla’s ethnicity could’ve been a major factor in making her a lowly assassin rather than a regular brain washed Death Watch member.

As stated in Karen Traviss’ Republic Commando novels, Jango (and presumably his parents) are from a Non Mandalorian “Ethnic Group” hailing from Concord Dawn. So according to Legends Canon? Concord Dawn is a planet from Mandalorian Space full of Non Mandalorians, because they’re not culturally Mandalorian.

Three guesses for why this is and your first two guesses don’t count. It’s also why the Cuy’val Dar member that taught Bacara wasn’t considered Mandalorian, he was a former Journeyman Portector from Concord Dawn. And while he spoke Concordian, a dialect of Mando’a, Cort Davin isn’t considered a Mandalorian.

And Karen Traviss? It could be said that she single handedly created the Mandalorian Culture through her world building and Legends novels. She was the one that did most of the Mandalorian World Building by word of god, and she was where many of the concepts of their culture came from.

Karen promised equality for all Mandos, a culture free from bigotry; no matter their race, species, gender, and orientation. However, she didn’t actually deliver on her promises and and wrote incredibly misogynistic and xenophobic Mando characters.

However, Jango’s ethnic group is spoken of as also “genetically Mandalorian.” Or his ethnic group shares some of the same genes, because Mandalorians and this unnamed ethnic group was said to have interbreed in the past. If you ask me—it was a way for Karen Traviss to explain away Jango’s ethnicity and how he could still be considered what she considered “genetically Mandalorian.”

And yes throughout her books the culture that’s supposed to accept anyone regardless of lineage or species has a major preoccupation with genetics. And an extremely human centric one at that.

And here’s where the Canon about Legends Mandalorians gets extremely sketchy and starts reeking of eugenics—ah, excuse me—I meant “the coincidental reinforcement of desirable genes through cultural encouragement.” A topic that’s discussed multiple times and by many of the Mandalorians throughout the RepComm and Karen’s other SW novels.

In fact, Jango and the clones’ genes were often a topic of discussion, and it often came off as incredibly racist. Whenever Jango’s accomplishments as Mand’alor were brought up, Jango’s “Mandalorian Ancestors” were attributed for his and even the clones’ success as warriors.

When it came to the troopers who decided to become farmers and support clan Skirata; it’s their ancestors that were farmers that are brought up. The implication being that the ancestors spoken of were from Jango’s indigenous ethnicity, despite these supposed ancestors literally being as close in relation as Jango’s biological parents.

There’s even a gene that makes Mandalorians such good fathers that is supposedly found in the Mandalorian genome, which allow me to remind you, the Mandalorian genome spoken of in the novels made such discussions extremely human centric. It didn’t help that Kal Skirata was exceedingly Xenophobic, not that he realized this fact…

Not only that but ‘a son’s obedience to his father’ was seen as an important part of said Mandalorian genome.

And on the topic of Jaster bringing an 8 year old Jango into war zones; Jaster did intend to keep Mandalorian traditions intact, apparently it included the tradition that Mando fathers should bring their sons onto battlefields by the age of eight, to ready them for their adulthood at thirteen.

It’s the reason why Kal’s ex-wife divorced him even. Really, the only thing Jaster changed was making mercenary work honorable, because I think it had something to do with soldiers being more honorable?

Although I detest Kal Skirata as a character, for his abuse of those he considered his sons, he did have an incredibly traumatic childhood at the hands of his Mandalorian father. In fact, in the second book in RepComm, during the scene where Kal confesses his sins to Etain; Kal does imply that even if he wanted to treat his sons differently, he doesn’t know how, because of the way he was raised.

Honestly, Kal is the epitome of “the circle of abuse continues,” instead of “breaking the cycle.”

Then there’s how Mandokar is used in relation to the regular non commando troopers, or their lack of Mandokar because of how the Kaminoans genetically modified the reg troopers to be “more docile” and “less aggressive.”

Let’s face it if you don’t have enough aggression than you’re not seen as desirable adoption Mando materiel. It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s why Jango’s “Mando Ancestors” decided to drop their Mando Culture and raised their kid Non Mando.

That is if Jango even had any Mando ancestors and Kal isn’t just talking out of his behind. Never mind how there’s a lot of condemnation of non warriors by most Mando, even if they’re supposed fellow Mandos.

"Satine should have been a villain" is just. I've seen it a few times and. Ffffff please tell me more about why you think a woman doing "my community should do less colonialism/imperialism/child abuse" is the bad guy, without revising what she, her people, or the Traditionalists whose culture (of imperialism, child soldiers, and freaking devşirme, depending on the sect) is being "ruined" by her saying "yeah, you don't get to kill people for money anymore."

Mandalorian history is filled with Mandalorian armies committing genocide, both full and cultural. Why, for the love of all that is good and holy, why would you accuse Satine of doing exactly the thing she is canonically an activist against?

People just. Take Satine's best traits. And transplant them onto Jaster Mereel.

Then they say she'd be better as a villain because she's erasing a culture whose best traits (egalitarianism, diversity, compassion, a desire to help the weak and abused) are either informed traits, wholesale fanon, OR STOLEN FROM NEW MANDALORE.

Revising canon so that the True Mandalorians aren't uncomfortably racist and killing political activists for money (see: Open Seasons) so that their portrayals match up to their stated values is fine, but... claiming the pacifist is a more interesting villain because the culture she erased is diverse and progressive in fanon is... why. Why is it more interesting to write a pacifist, progressive character as the bad guy than to explore her in the context of the deeply messed up culture she was raised in.

I just. This is a woman who is shown displaying compassion at every turn and explicitly stated to have gone through hell for her beliefs, who rations when her people do, who said "no more war" because her people killed so many and then each other.

It's so much more interesting to investigate what she went through. It's so much less pro-imperialist to just RETCON THE DEMOGRAPHICS (the way canon did) and reimagine Satine as a woman of color to ditch the White Blonde Politician weirdness than to say "actually, the gun-toting mercenaries who said things like 'the natives are poorly armed' (thanks, Jaster) are the morally best option for this culture."

Hell, there's room to go 'oh hey, Kalevala was likely a planet that was colonized, since it's not Manda'yaim, which means Satine is possibly descended from people who, like Kal Skirata, were forcibly assimilated into Mandalorian culture way back.'

Just. Why is "the pacifist activist who is on decade number three of changing her own culture from the inside to be less British/Danish/Ottoman/Mongolian/Japanese/Roman Empire-esque should be the bad guy" your go-to?