#Madam Jin needs more stans

[beneath-a-moonlit-lake]

There is not enough contempt in this world that can be felt when reading about Jin Guangshan.

Each time Jin Guangshan appears in the book, I become a Madam Jin stan. Yes, I know she's abusive. No, JGY did not deserve to ever be on the receiving end of her violence.

She deserves far more attention for showing us how her slimeball of a husband should really be handled. It's not an accident that JGS is introduced as a man who is terrified of his wife.

Jin Guangshan is a misogynist and a deeply spoiled and entitled bully, but he is also a coward who cannot handle direct confrontation. Madam Jin makes it impossible for him to mess with her by being loud, angry and confrontational with him. There are no concubines in the Jin Clan for a reason. Just look at the bullshit that JGS pulled off by bringing Mo Xuanyu back to the Jinlintai in order to threaten JGY. If JGS thought he could 'put Madam Jin in her place' by pulling that nonsense with a concubine he absolutely would have done it.

Jin Guangshan backs down when you confront him. He might not concede the case entirely, but he always gives way. Madam Jin gets angry about Meng Yao turning up and off JGS goes running to do something about it. NMJ wants Xue Yang dead? JGS can't tell him no, and ends up having to lock XY up and delay relentlessly until JGY murders him. Wei Wuxian confronts him over the Wen remnants and the Yin Tiger Tally and the only thing that JGS can do about it is to throw a giant pissbaby temper tantrum.

This man is not a credible threat. The two people who should have a great deal to fear from him - his wife and his bastard son, are barely even wary of him. His real power comes from his place in the social hierarchy, the insistence that people have on upholding said social hierarchy, the easy answers and assumptions that can be made, and the excuses that JGS provides for people to be the worst versions of themselves.

JGS did not order Meng Yao to be kicked down the stairs, he just told the servant to get rid of him as quickly as possible, and look what happened to that poor kid. He decided that he didn't want to acknowledge Meng Yao when he turned up at the Jin camp during the Sunshot Campaign, and some captain took it as an excuse to treat MY as a subhuman being and take credit for all his hard work.

Treating JGS like a scheming mastermind with WRH's powers treats everyone who enabled him in the book far too kindly. He only got his chance to scheme against WWX because everyone took it for granted that WWX was 'arrogant' rather than consider that there might have been a real problem with the treatment of the Wen Remnants.

The man had to gamble with the lives of his son and Jin Zixun just to get a chance of attacking WWX. Yes, the impoverished guy whose reputation was in tatters with no allies and no social protection. That is a huge L as far as political maneuvering goes. Readers don't care about Jin Zixun because he only exists in the story to be annoying, but that guy is basically the Second Young Master of the Jin clan. He's the Jin's equivalent of Nie Huaisang or Lan Wangji! JGS took advantage of his son and daughter-in-law's invitation but somehow assumed that either of them would be immune to being dragged into the mess and look what happened?

The last time in the story where prominent Young Masters were so exposed in politics was when WRH was actively waging war on the Sects. It was not a win when all the rich and important kids had to attend the Wen Re-education camp and basically just hope that nothing would go wrong. It would not be a political or narrative win if NMJ had to risk NHS's life or if Lan Qiren had to put the Twin Jades at risk to gain some benefit for their clans, but that exactly what JGS was doing.

The Jianghu should have respected Madam Jin a lot more.

[navarice]

my dearest fellow mdzs stans, i really don't want to spoil anyone's fun but sometimes some things must be said. please do NOT mistake fanon characteristics for canon characteristics because by GOD is it frustrating to dissect a character when all anyone wants to do is blindly turn away from the very vivid and metastasizing flaws.

jiang cheng is an extremely complicated character, and that's why we love him. but by god, he is a jealous, self-victimizing asshole with a massive inferiority complex who likes to torture (probably) innocent look-a-likes of his (as far as he knew) dead adjacent family member. jesus christ this isn't some simple case of miscommunication (well it is but, you know no amount of communication will ever mend the giant chasm that developed between them. especially not with asians raised within the most classical case of asian parenting, i mean come on now) but a matter of deep and intense self-loathing developed since early childhood projecting violently outwards. let me be clear. he hates wei wuxian. he loathes him. he wants to kill him with his own hands again and again so some part of his convoluted sense of justice and superiority will be fulfilled. he's a classist, a bully, and abusive to everyone around him. ong at the end of mdzs, i was nearly crying tears of joy when jin guangyao flayed him flat on his ass bc that man needed to hear it. he needed to feel it. he needed to stop blaming others and blame himself.

and!! he's homophobic!! the entire cultivation world is, yes, but he's the only one we see give wei ying and lan zhan active shit for it!!

point is...his complexity makes him interesting. as a child, he was pretty alright tbh. he was understandably upset when three of his dogs got taken away and he saw his dad give a completely random kid such a gentle hug when jiang cheng never received one so far. he was a kid, and it was sad and helped the readers get a glimpse at the already dysfunctional family dynamics before wei ying came into the picture. as an adolescent/teen, yes he had a lot of unresolved rage and inferiority issues building up when he was constantly being compared to wei wuxian by his mother and not given enough reassurance from his father (once again, all present before wei ying...everyone just likes to dump the shit on him bc it's easier to point fingers at others than at yourself). perhaps he could have turned out differently if literally either of his parents stepped up and took accountability. however, after the burning of lotus pier? after the golden core transfer? after wei ying stuck around as his subordinate just as he promised, and protected jiang cheng like he promised, and defected just to save the yunmeng clan's reputation so jiang cheng doesn't have to put up with the other clan's shit, still continuing to keep his promise? after wei ying's death? idk abt y'all, but all bets are off bro.

mxtx makes it a point to make him so irredeemable. he's an exploration of what can go wrong if you let your traumas, self-hatred, and revenge fantasies blind you. he has the worst traits of his parents for a reason, directly contrasting with the other sibling, who is a perfect picture of eldest daughters born into a dysfunctional family. jiang yanli has the best traits of her parents (in terms of compassion and standing up for her family), but the family dynamics also made her the way she was. the responsible, the mediator, the occasional mother, stepping in where madam yu cannot.

there's just so much potential to hold him accountable buried under the pretense of misunderstandings and kinnie moments. he just had so many chances, more than any other character, to make a different choice. to actually look past his misgivings and unlearn the bad habits he used to protect himself as a child. i'm not saying he has to magically heal from all his traumas, but at the very least know not to be like his parents. but he wasn't written that way. because that is what happens when you give into your insecurities and generational trauma.

bottom line: jiang cheng is a fantastic archetype that needs to be explored in all his authenticity, including his moments of loyalty and cruelty.

[words-writ-in-starlight]

I was just watching the scene where Madam Yu confronts Wen Zhuliu, and it made me think that the ONE good thing that the Jiang siblings possibly got from Madam Yu was the BEST Judgmental Stares. In an AU where all three of them got to rebuild Lotus Pier together, anytime they're in a sect meeting and someone says something stupid, they just collectively turn to that person and give them a look that says 1/2

'WOW. We are embarrassed for you as, like, a human being. We will now graciously give you the opportunity to SHUT THE HELL UP before we are forced to do it FOR you.' It could have been so good!! (This was basically brought on by my desperate desire for the Jiang siblings to be happy together WHY WEREN'T THEY EVER GIVEN THE CHAAAAAAANCE)

HONESTLY is there anyone out there who’s good with gifs who would make me and panther a gifset of the Yunmeng kids being Brutal to people, I have no money but you would have my undying adoration.  It’s the only decent thing their mother ever taught them.

[plan-d-to-i]

https://mobile.twitter.com/asideoftrashpl1/status/1539298644901236736

I smell sth fishy about this post trying to explain culture behind Ancestral Hall scene and it seems like they try to spin the novel into a "a grey area". I need some experts to dissect this.

LOL ppl you can read all the articles you want. Go off, grow your knowledge. But none of what they have to say matters. Why? Because we're not writing a paper on ancestral halls. We're not discussing ancestral halls thought time and history. We're discussing a story. MXTX's story; and she can make it as deep or not deep as she fucking wants for LWJ and WWX to visit the ancestral hall in her world. As she wrote in her postscripts:

“One good thing about fantasy stories is that you don’t have to be too historically correct and you can make changes to certain customs however you want. The conventions in this story are mainly from the Wei, Jin, Southern and Northern Dynasties as well as the Tang Dynasty. Chairs were rare. To ‘sit’ usually means to sit on one’s knees. The ceremonial clothes were mostly the Tang cap and the round-collar robe. However, chilli peppers and apples appeared even though they only happened in the Ming Dynasty. The hip-and-gable roof on the buildings were named in the Qing Dynasty. The vocabulary and poem allusions were even more examples of time-travelling. And the age at which one was given a courtesy name was lowered to fifteen. Anyhow, the author pretty much massaged together all of the Ancient China elements she liked and brewed them in a pot. There’s no accuracy at all. So whatever. Just read about the characters and the story.”

And in her novel this is what is said by the hero of her story:

"He didn’t want to argue, “I didn’t take HanGuang-Jun to the other, more confidential places of Lotus Pier. We only came to greet Uncle Jiang and Madam Yu with a few sticks of incense. We’re finished already and we’ll be leaving now.”

Somebody who wasn't jc most likely wouldn't have cared beyond that. jc however, is exactly like his mother: spewing poison bc he wants attention, because he wants a fight, because he's dripping w hate and resentment and he uses others (WWX, Jin Ling etc) as his emotional punching bag. jc stalked after WangXian and could have stopped them from entering the ancestral hall. He just wanted to be a piece of shit and start a fight. I'd say the bigger relevance of the ancestral hall scene is that it's there that Wen Ning drops his truth on jc; Wen Ning whose family jc let die/actively killed during the siege. Wen Ning to whom jc not only owes his life, but the fact that he even had his parents' bodies at all; unlike WWX who never even saw his parents' ashes. The truth is people can write a fucking thesis on ancestral halls, but the most relevant thing when discussing this story IS THIS STORY. So jc stans can build a bridge and get the fuck over their delusional notions, because they sound stupid af trying to spin jc as the victim of his own homophobic moment.

[admirableadmiranda]

Debts and balances: or how much does one man have to pay over the course of his life?

Good morning everyone! Today we’re going to be talking about debts, and why Jiang Cheng needs to shut the fuck up on debts because he is the one in the wrong pretty much the entire time.

Let’s start by acknowledging that I am not of this culture so I may perhaps state a thing or two wrong, but I also have several functioning brain cells to rub together and I pay attention so I will probably be more right than most of the “hot takes” I see on why Jiang Cheng is not actually in the wrong here. Because he is. He so is.

So, debts. First of all, there are multiple levels and layers of debts and to whom do you owe them too. So let’s start with the first one where the story is subtle about it and yet both Jiang Cheng and Madam Yu are in the wrong. We know that Cangse Sanren saved Jiang Fengmian’s life at one point when they were young. Life debts are big. To only be alive because of someone else’s actions is a debt that it is possible you will never be able to pay back. There are multiple stories of otherwise good people protecting the obvious villain because they owe that.

Jiang Fengmian’s only way of being able to pay back that debt after Cangse Sanren and Wei Changze die is to take care of their child and raise him how they would have. I.E, as a cultivator. This is not a debt that Wei Wuxian owes to the Jiangs. It is quite literally, the least of what Jiang Fengmian owes him and his parents to do.

Jiang Cheng cannot claim that Wei Wuxian owes them for his life. He is wrong. 

Next debt that even Jiang Cheng does not try to claim, only his ever so pleasant stans, the fucking dogs. The fucking dogs that he does not actually give a fuck about. 

Wei Wuxian does not ask anyone to do anything about the dogs. He is not in a mental state to. He is in a state of triggered phobia where his brain literally goes into run away screaming mode. This is also not funny and Jiang Cheng is a jackass for making fun of it whenever it happens. Jiang Fengmian is the one who decides that it’s better for the dogs to go. Even though Jiang Cheng is upset, he does not actually hold this as a lingering grudge against Wei Wuxian. He lets it the fuck go. And even if he didn’t, the resentment and anger should be aimed at the person who actually made a decision about it. Not Wei Wuxian. He does not give one singular fuck about his dogs later on. Let the fucking dogs go.

Third off: The Fall of Lotus Pier. There are different levels of blame that we can lay on this. Wei Wuxian is not close to responsible for this. Jiang Cheng knows this and elects to blame him anyway.

The first people we can lay the blame on the fall of Lotus Pier is the Wens, who came with ships, warriors, Wang Lingjiao to rile up the notoriously short tempered asshole Madam Yu, and Wen Zhuliu the Core-Melting Hand. They came prepared for battle and they got what they wanted. Madam Yu is the second one we can lay the blame on, for deciding to attack and demean Wang Lingjiao, not for making her do anything she didn’t want to do, because holy hell did she want to whip Wei Wuxian until he couldn’t move and leapt at the chance to do such a thing, but because Wang Lingjiao is a servant who was elevated by her lover and Madam Yu is a classist asshole. This is the only reason she flips out. Wei Wuxian did nothing wrong. Wei Wuxian does not have the blood of Lotus Pier on his hands, he is tied to Jiang Cheng and told to protect him at the cost of his life, a debt he does not owe. 

The four debt he attempts to claim, the only one that might be considered to have some teeth if it weren’t for how much Wei Wuxian gives him back almost immediately. Jiang Cheng goes to distract the Wens from Wei Wuxian and ends up getting captured and losing his golden core. So first off, in this world a golden core is a lot to lose, I won’t deny that. But, first off, Wei Wuxian is only in danger because after being whipped a lot, then strangled, then having to run after Jiang Cheng multiple times because he would rather go die at Lotus Pier than listen to either of his parents and escape, he still goes into town to get them something to eat because otherwise Jiang Cheng would rather lie on the ground and die. Fucking great sect leadership there, huh Jiang Cheng? But yes, Jiang Cheng sees the Wens, sees them notice Wei Wuxian, goes off to distract them and then gets captured and loses his golden core.

Now we’re getting to some of the debts that Jiang Cheng owes and refuses to pay back, because that’s definitely going to get him far in this world. Wei Wuxian in his panic and attempt to find Jiang Cheng, finds Wen Ning, who after some struggles manages to convince him that he can sneak in and get Jiang Cheng back out. In addition, he also retrieves the bodies of Madam Yu and Jiang Fengmian. This is huge. Jiang Cheng now owes him both a life debt for again, saving his life at great cost to his own: Wen Ning is literally committing treason here, and also for restoring the lost honor of not being able to bury his parents properly. Wen Ning gives them a proper burial and later after the war he is able to lie them to rest in the Ancestors Hall so their spirits will be at peace and he will have fulfilled his fillial duties. By all means, the debt he owes Wen Ning in particular is so great that he should have taken in every Wen in those camps and sheltered them because it is as close as he will ever get to repaying that debt. And that’s just Wen Ning!

The next debt he owes and refuses to pay is to Wen Qing, a genius doctor and respected by Wen Ruohan, who uses the prestige and skills she has to protect both him and Wei Wuxian in at this point enemy territory when they are being actively searched for, being the new sect leader and head disciple of Yunmeng Jiang. She hides them and then later uses her skills to give him a new golden core so that he can go and fight back against his people, revitalizing his clan and eradicating hers. This is another debt that could only really be paid back by protecting her people if she came to him. He owes her literally his life, his power and his people.

The third debt he owes and refuses to pay is to Wei Wuxian, who more than overbalances the scales back in his favor by giving him his golden core. He pays his chance at immortality, his power, his strength, his cultivation, everything that he has to his name so that Jiang Cheng won’t starve himself to death over losing his core. In addition, he tells Jiang Cheng that this comes from a once in a lifetime favor from his mother’s master so even before when he didn’t know about the core, this is still a massive, massive debt, a limitless one time favor from an immortal that he uses Wei Wuxian’s chance to get and never actually thanks him. So at this point, his own golden core as a debt starts to seem a little hollow. Either way, it’s been repaid. An action you do in service of someone else is not a weapon you get to hold over their heads for multiple lives.

Moving on! The next debt he would like to claim is that Wei Wuxian apparently has no right to do things he does not approve of. Excuse me? Is he now a computer program that crashed? What the fuck Jiang Wanyin? Wei Wuxian has less rank than him, although Jiang Cheng is so high rank in this society that he only shares his rank with three other people and there’s no one above him so it would be very hard for him to not be, but he is still a person, with his own thoughts, wishes, dreams, hopes and beliefs. He is not an extension of your hand, to make your clan look good and stand behind you as a hammer to smash on people. Wen Qing goes to Wei Wuxian to ask for help for finding her brother, her people because they are literally being tortured to death. This is a debt that by all means, Jiang Cheng should be repaying. See that part where Wen Ning committed treason to help him and restore his family’s honor? See that part where Wen Qing literally gave him the ability to go back to war against her family? This is the point where anyone with honor would recognize this is the only thing I can do. I will throw myself on my sword if I must, but I must repay this debt to them. There is nothing less I can do. But Jiang Cheng has only the honor of a mangy cur and ignores this, and when Wei Wuxian goes to fulfill this debt, he tells him to stop. To him, his multiple life debts are an inconvience to shoving his nose so far up Jin Guangshan’s ass that he’s tasting what he had for dinner that day.

The next debt that he would like to claim is the death of his brother in law. This is a debt that Wei Wuxian would owe to specific people. This debt is to Jiang Yanli, Jin Guangshan and Jin Ling, one of whom is wanting to forgive it, one who is too small to decide at the time, and one who straight up does not give a fuck beyond advancing his power. Jiang Cheng is not one of these people. His sister is fine, she’s not his concern anymore, she’s a part of the Jin sect. The only reason why he died is that Jiang Cheng decided the best way to repay his debt to Wei Wuxian was to throw a temper tantrum and declare him an enemy to everyone, ripping out every support from under his feet. Regardless, Jiang Cheng is an asshole and does not get to claim this debt.

The final one of Wei Wuxian’s first life that he keeps hurling at him is the death of his sister...the death of his sister who chose to leap between Wei Wuxian and a sword. The death of his sister at a battle that broke out because Jiang Cheng has been with Jin Guangshan whipping the cultivation world into a frenzy against the Wens and Wei Wuxian because of power and jealousy. The battle that would have not happened if they’d left them alone. Jiang Cheng has been to the burial mounds. He has seen the farmers, he has seen the baby there. He has decided that rather than do anything to repay these various deaths, he will kill them on other people’s swords instead. Because he is also a coward and won’t pick fights he can’t win. In addition he likes to steal Yanli’s agency, she’s the one who chose to come, she’s the one who chose to get in the way and she doesn’t die with regrets. And she is not his debt to claim. Again, the one who actually gets to claim this death that Wei Wuxian is not responsible for is Jin Ling, who actually shapes up and decides that it doesn’t matter, he doesn’t blame Wei Wuxian for it. He forgives him his role in that space and moves the fuck on, unlike a certain sir stabby grape mcwhipinnoencts.

And then Wei Wuxian dies and any debts he may have still owed to Jiang Cheng, not that there were any, die with him. Jiang Cheng has no claim on him, he was not part of his sect, they were not brothers in any way, indeed Jiang Cheng called him his enemy. Even most people with far more real grudges at this point would let it go. Wei Wuxian is so dead that no one can find his soul, no matter how hard they look. He comes back to life and reaps the rewards of his actions, finding new allies, getting the chance to actually interact with Jin Ling and make his apologies, and in the end, settle down to a peaceful life with an adoring husband and nothing left to be repaid. If there is still a debt he owes, it is only to Mo Xuanyu, who gave up his entire cycle of life to let Wei Wuxian reincarnate early with his memories, a sacrifice he only asked for repayment in the death of his family. He may owe more still, but that is all Mo Xuanyu wanted from him in repayment for this great sacrifice. The cultivation world is in the wrong when they’re trying to persecute him again for the actions of his previous life, he owes them nothing anymore. The debts he carries towards Jin Ling are the ones he chooses to take on, feeling guilty that he grew up without his parents due to the world’s general actions and also no one else taking responsibility for how far things fell. 

That is what Jiang Cheng finally realizes in the temple, crouched on the floor and sobbing like a spoiled child over the golden core sacrifice. Is that he is in the wrong and has been in the wrong the whole time. That there is nothing he can hold onto, no debt that Wei Wuxian ever owed him that he could demand to be paid. He built it all up in his head as he left his honor, his family and his dignity in the wake of his arrogance. And it’s a painful thing to realize, the consequences of your decisions, but all he can do is live with his own ruined reputation, his own loneliness and the fact that no one wants to be around him. He’s blacklisted by multiple matchmakers, his disciples are more like thugs, Wei Wuxian chooses every opportunity to get away from him and even Jin Ling likes him less and less over the course of the book, not forgetting that he seems to prefer Jin Guangyao to begin with as he actually talks to him sometimes and doesn’t hit him. Jiang Cheng refusing to pay his debts gives him exactly what a debt deserter deserves. No one has a reason to trust him. The one bit of positive character growth he does is giving up and not trying to reel him back in by telling him of the sacrifice. At this point, all it would be is just him trying to get another debt he cannot hold because it is long since repaid, never quite made up for what they gave him to make up for it, and worthless in the face of Wei Wuxian’s new life. Wei Wuxian owes him nothing and never has.

Also, just to tally up the relationship between Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng on things given between the two of them, Jiang Cheng gives him: a lot of whinging on how unfair it is that Wei Wuxian is a prodigy, and a one time immediately regretted and held over his head sacrifice of a golden core. Whereas Wei Wuxian gives him: many lessons on how to be a kinder person that he ignores, the patience and tolerance of his stinkbug attitude, his love, his affection, his fucking golden core, his reputation, his blood, his livelihood, taking over his debts, trying to keep any of his actions from reflecting on the Jiangs even though if Jiang Cheng had repaid any of the debts he owed, there would have been no problems because if the Jin’s did decide to attack, Wei Wuxian would fight back and he can level battle fields on his own, his honor, his relationships, and even his life in the end, because if Wei Wuxian had ever turned on him like he claimed, he would have been a bloody smeared spot on the ground. And Jiang Cheng gobbles this all up and demands more with Wei Wuxian’s blood and tears dribbling from his mouth. 

Would you give that much for someone who doesn’t treat you well? Would you find that a reasonable price to pay for someone who demeans you at every opportunity, who tells you you deserve your misfortunes and that no one likes you? Why are you surprised that in the end Wei Wuxian would rather walk away with people who care about him, why he gives up, leaves any opportunity for anything in Jiang Cheng’s hands. Wei Wuxian has given more than any person should for almost nothing. It is a sign of triumph and victory, of recognizing his own worth and value in the world and who he wants to be with, that he leaves, that he walks away with his head held high. He owes Jiang Cheng nothing, and Jiang Cheng will just have to fucking live with that.

[whumpbby]

Lol, I am thinking that with the series gaining popularity and steam around the third volume, the prints were distributed far and wide. The author was praised for their descriptive and flowing style, just flowery enough to be dramatic, but concise enough to leave little to imagination. The characters gained fans, and as the cast grew with each new addition, everyone could find someone to stan. Either the main protagonist struggling between duty and love, or his lover with his tragic past, or the protagonist's best friend who struggled with his place in the world and attractions towards the beautiful Wen heiress. Maybe the young archer from a lowly sect undergoing his coming of age story, or the noble warrior searching far and wide for a sister kidnapped as a baby? Or even the advisor of the bad guy, who needed to decide whether to follow his master or leave and chase fter the man he loved, the cold Immortal from the Ice Peak? The plot quickly left the factual Sunshot War on the account of an imaginary retelling with the actual sects and people far in the background - doing vague political things, the threat of Yiling Laozu a distant and vague thing. All that generously sprinkled with sex and feelings, and dramatic reveals and cliffhangers, everyone getting in the way of the main couple.

The sex was still the main driving force of the story, but the breadth of relationships gave Jiang Cheng an opportunity to include more and more practices brought up by the jiejies and Su, even if some of them were enough to make him blush. Slowly, however, he learned to consider them in an academic way and easily write about things that would make Wei Wuxian gasp. Hell, in volume two he even introduced a character of a courtesan, an older Madame the protagonists kept crossing paths with, that often served as a mouthpiece for the more educational sections (she might have been a Meishan Yu spy, if one was to read into certain things) and explanations to the - somehow - still fairly inocent and naive main hero.

And it was - fun.

It was actually fun to make up these little stories and keep track of all the characters and subplots and positions. It was engaging and at the same time relaxing, to spend an evening away from the letters and reports, focusing on this imaginary world where a happy ending was possible. It was amusing to write the scenes including real people he knew, and imaging their reactions if they were ever confronted with them (not that he'd ever expect Lan Xichen to put his hands on a spring book, but being portrayed as a melancholic beauty of Gusu Lan that the cultivation world had an uniform crush on would probably drive him to distraction!)

Jiang Cheng didn't even notice how much of his life was consumed by taking care of Jin Ling until the boy was gone and he was left with nothing to do for the first time in his life. His sect also breathed a sigh of relief when their Leader stopped micromanaging every little thing and found a hobby - they assumed he was journaling or reading, or painting. He seemed calmer nowadays, happier. Even if he visited the nice brothel a lot recently. Good for him.

Jiang Cheng didn't even suspect how accomplished one could feel after creating something that people liked. It was such a silly thing, but it was his and it was good and it made him happy.

On the other side of the world, Wei Wuxian was slowly completing his collection of the Books of Spring, the whole seven volumes stacked in the place of honour on his bookshelf. Another seven stored in his pouch, if he wanted to read on the road - or needed some ideas to spice up their Everyday. Not that before was bad, but ever since Nie Huaisang has given Lan Zhan the first two volumes of the newest literary hit, their sex life became absolutely amazing. Who would have thought there was so many adventurous sex positions that were still good for one's back? And that oil made such a difference? And that something as easy as peeing after sex would save them so much trouble? And that whole chapter with the Wen heiress and the ropes...! Lan Zhan was blushing for a week afterwards! Who would have thought that following the rules would make sex so much better? Lan Zhan was particularly taken by the care the dashing rogue cultivator showed to his young lover even during their most daring escapades and strived to emulate it - and thought Wei Wuxian didn't see himself as particularly delicate and wasn't nearly as naive as the protagonist, he appreciated the thought. And lack of backpain in the morning.

If he could, he'd personally thank the author for shining a light the world of cutsleeve sex and for fun adventures he enjoyed alongside the characters. His favourite, amusingly, was the little side-character, a young cultivator from a distant branch of the Jiang sect. He wasn't very amusing, to be honest, his plot was a bit of a downer when compared to the rest - he just wandered the world, searching for the sect siblings the Wen took to their indoctrination camp and never gave back. His path crossed with the protagonists every so often - serving as a source of information or a helping hand when needed. Wei Wuxian knew that the story needed this sort of a side-body for the plot to run smoothly, but somehow he felt sympathy for the poor kid, just him and his spirit dog on a doomed quest to find his lost home...

Yeah, he kinda wanted to talk to the author - ask them what was the plan for the kid? Could they be convinced to give him a happy ending? Things being as they were, the poor boy had all the markings of tragic death written all over him! That would be awful! He needed to be saved!

Thus, Wei Wuxian decided to write to the author of the books - first of many letters addressed to the Wisteria House and the ever mysterious Author.

I love the pics where JC/wangxian get sex-pollened and dual cultivation is the only way out. Love every single of these.

However, an idea struck today xD

Say, the thing happens, sex pollen threatens their lives and they have to fuck and JC agrees to it reluctantly. He doesn't want to die so may as well let the Second Jade fuck him - it's a marginally better option than ungraceful death-_-

Except, the sex is so bad.

So. Bad.

Jiang Cheng lays there, forced to take it, gritting his teeth and questioning his choices. It can be, can it? Lan Zhan has been very openly in a physical relationship with Wei Wuxian for five years now. They apparently fuck all the time, if Lan Xichen's stilted complaints are anything to go by. So how is Wangji so bad at it??? Is it because he hates Jiang Cheng and doesn't care to make it good? Well, fuck him then-_-

But no. Because when Wei Wuxian's turn comes, it's still... not good.

Jiang Cheng sits there, aching and exhausted, and cannot stop looking, because he's concerned. They are going at it like a pair of blind monkeys. Is this what they think sex is??? It looks painful (and it is).

He leaves, full of concern and frustration.

When his father left him in a care of the expensive courtesan right after JC's sixteen birthday, it was completely different. He was nervous and embarrassed, but the jiejie was very patient and inviting, and they've spent a very nice afternoon as she taught him what to do on his wedding night. To his initial mortification, the lesson included *gulp* anal sex.

"In case future Jiang-Furen wishes to take a ride on your pillar without being distracted by possible consequences." She told him with a sneaky wink.

She seemed satisfied with his performance and, well, pleased, throughout. And he found the act quite pleasurable, if a bit scandalous (and doubly exciting because of that).

It cannot be that different when it's men, can it?

Can it?

Wei Wuxian, at least, was an avid reader of Huaisang's spring books, he should know the basics at least!

Except... well, father never took him to the Wisteria House - mother would openly murder both of them if that happened. And, as much as he flirted and chased girls, Jiang Cheng knew his shixiong was too busy with training and pranks, and never actually had a girl.

And Lan Wangji had the personality and charm of a tree stump, and he was famously in love with Wei Wuxian since they were boys.

Could it be that they were both goddamn virgins when they came together? Could it be they didn't know that sex was supposed to be better? Was this as far as their imagination went???

Jiang Cheng himself wasn't a regular customer of brothels and his libido was quite low, but even he knew your ass shouldn't ache for days after (and wasn't that a fun and humiliating experience in trying to heal that part of his body?). Lady Li very patiently explained to him how to ensure his future wife will leave their bed sated and relaxed.

He shouldn't care, really, what business of his was how Wei Wuxian and his husband fucked? He'd rather not think about it.

...But he was thinking about it. And it wasn't giving him peace!

Thus, after two weeks with very little sleep and a lot of punching things, Jiang Cheng found himself in the Wisteria House, asking to see their best male courtesan with the intention of asking some very embarrassing questions.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

I got into mdzs through the donghua and at first I was like "the baby grape's life is so sad 🥺" but then I see him do nothing but yell and scream and keep getting in wwx's way and I got really annoyed. Like dude if you loathe conflict so much then why don't you take a page out of your sister's book and cook soup instead of berating the guy who is actually doing something. He and yzy don't want to make any efforts but scream like a banshee when things don't go the way they want. Whenever I see his stans say "oh but he was manipulated/didn't had a choice!" I feel like eye rolling my eyes out of the eye socket. Is he some damsel in distress that couldn't do anything? Hell even mianmian who once was a damsel in distress, had the guts to stand up for someone who helped her and when those trash sect leaders talked shit about her, she left like a self respecting person unlike jc who keeps licking their feet. SoCIAl hE1rArcHy? more like cowardice lol

Late replies~ (I'm sorry so sorry lol it has been very very busy in life)!

But I agree with a lot of what you write here, a lot of MXTX villains hold the same theme of very much having the free will (despite varying degrees of harshness within life) to do better, kinder, choose love over resentment/power/jealousy etc, yet at every turn not taking that choice. They choose to relish within that hate.

In MDZS when it comes to the likes of Madam Yu, Jiang Cheng, Jin Guangyao, and Xue Yang, they each have in common using their lack of happiness in their life to act like they never really had a choice when they chose their extremes. They place the blame on others,

Madam Yu places her lack of finding love not on herself because she is cruel and abrasive, but on Jiang Fengmian for not liking her as she is, he needs to change himself. Jiang Cheng uses the guilt he thinks Wei Wuxian should feel for saving others that were not the Jiangs as a vice grip promise that Wei Wuxian has chosen his loyalty wrong and betrayed him constantly, Wei Wuxian can not do right by the standards of Jiang Cheng much like what his mother used to do to him. Jin Guangyao uses the fact that his low status meant he had no choice but to choose cruelty to protect himself, even long after his own father was gone and dug his hole of violence even deeper than it was ever needed. Xue Yang blames the world for what he is and refuses to say he himself had any part of the cruelty he set on others for despising the way people judged him however rightly.

Jiang Cheng does not hate conflict, he actively creates it several times when it comes to Wei Wuxian, he simply uses that as the excuse that Wei Wuxian makes problems for him as the inverse of what Madam Yu tried to stir up with herself, Jiang Fengmian, and Cangse Sanren. The rumors of them conveniently mirror Jiang Cheng, Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji later in life. And Jiang Cheng actively fueled the rumors against Wei Wuxian when he simply could have stood with Mianmian and Lan Wangji before everything spiraled. He chose his own jealousy first out of spite even when the tools not to were in front of him.

[annalacerda17]

I’m sorry for bothering you again but i was just thinking about JC in the donghua. I personally don’t really care about JC (but i do think people need to stop excusing his actions). When the donghua ended i saw a lot JC stans being angry at the ending, i don’t really know understand why but i would like your thoughts on that. Even though the donghua definitely has it’s problems, i do really like the way they did wangxian and their characterisation a lot more then with cql and that’s probably the most important to me.

It's not a bother!

I think that although it's not perfect, the donghua is still one of the better MDZS adaptations. It's much better than cql and I personally prefer it to the manhua just because I like the donghua's character designs better.

I think the donghua definitely understood the story they were adapting and it's characters.

When it comes to adaptions, I mostly look at wether the adaption was able to express the main themes and character arcs well. The donghua has its problems. I'm not fond of the way the donghua softened the Jiangs and their messed up portrayal of JFM and YZY's relationship and I don't like how they gave JC more scenes and generally tried to soften his character, especially in the first season (I'm not a fan of the first season, but it improved on the second season and I really liked the third season). I don't think this was a lack of understanding the story, but a deliberate choice because JC is (for some reason) a popular character. I'm still more forgiving towards the donghua than cql, because despite all that, the donghua managed to mostly stay within the boundary of the story's themes.

So, I liked the ending of the donghua.

JC stans won't be happy unless JC gets the VIP marry sue protagonist treatment. They were unhappy with the novel, and will be unhappy with any adaption that unless it turns JC into the MC and hands him everything he wants on silver platter.

About JC's ending in the donghua, here's what I think: JC just tried to whip WWX, who'd just saved his ass again (while JC had been trying to besiege and kill him again), then he found out he owed everything he is to WWX and Wen Qing, and responded with more violence towards an already hurt WWX, and JC stans still say JC was the real victim because LWJ knocked off his guan. How the hell does that make any sense? Are they really trying to sell the idea that JC's hairstyle is more important than others' lives? JC is ungrateful, spiteful, jealous and an all around poisonous person, he led a siege on WWX and the Wen Remnants he knew were innocent when he knew he owed Wen Qing and Wen Ning his life and when he saw his sister sacrifice her life to save WWX. He went on to spend 13 hunting down anyone who reminded him of WWX to torture and kill even when they turned out be innocent. He tried to kill WWX again after WWX's resurrection. All of that and he faced virtually no punishment. He can take a little humiliation, and should be thankful that's all he's getting.

Personally, I think his lack of external punishment works well with MDZS's themes about letting go of resentment. In a way, JC's punishment is there in his refusal to move on, in his inability to step out of self entitlement and victim mentality, in his refusal to overcome his shortcomings, in his self centerd worldview, all of which make him lonely.So far, we see that he already destroyed most of his ancestors' legacy and ideals, so I think the natural progression is for the Jiang sect to eventually fade away with JC's death or become part of the Jin sect under JL. JC hurts others, but he doesn't see that the one he's destroying is himself. That's what resentment does to ppl, and JC exemplifies that very well.

In MDZS, happiness is always a matter of choice: YZY, for example, got the husband she wanted, she had money, two children (a boy and a girl, even!), prestige, power as the leader of Lotus Pier, a loyal friend in Madam Jin, and basically all external things she could ask for, but was ultimately still unhappy her whole life because she chose to focus on the wrong things, and refused to put even a little effort into achieving the happiness she desired.

JC is exactly like that. He has everything, but is still unhappy. In a way, happiness is like a journey: others can tell you the way, but they can't walk your feet for you. WWX tries to help JC time and again, but JC refuses to take a single step, so there's nothing anyone can do.

Because of this, I'm not fond of JC going into seclusion in the donghua, because his inability to self reflect and refusal to change is so integral to his character. On the other hand, his seclusion might just be out of embarrassment, which would make more sense with his character. 🤔

[vrishchikawrites]

I get confused too easily when it comes to the lore of MDZS since this is my first post. Like do we address Madame Yu as Madame Jiang or is she a special case? It confuses me because in the dongua we know of a Madame Lan and a Madame Jin but we don't hear a Madam Yu. I think the Yu is her maiden name from her former sect which I believe is blatantly disrespectful to the current Madame Yu but I am not sure. If that makes sense. If yes and my theory is correct why does Sect leader Jiang tolerate this matter why is the man so lenient with his wife. When he has all the power to do something about it.🤔🤔 It kind of bonkers when I think about it.

You can have all the power in the world but if you're not the kind of enforce it on others, you'll still be vulnerable to people who want to take advantage or abuse you. JFM is very mild-mannered and placid when it comes to dealing with his wife.

As for her retaining her maiden name, I think people belonging to the culture would give you a more accurate answer. I have read contradictory accounts, tbh. Some metas say she was rebelling in some way while others say that women don't need to take up their husband's name. So idk about this one in particular. Granted, people that said she didn't need to take up his name were Madam Yu stans and from what I read married women typically do and concubines typically don't? That's all I can tell you here, nonny.

[whumpbby]

I am also thinking that the first scene is hilarious because of the double-standard if WWX telling JL to "say you love your uncle and want to keep him safe". A double-standard Jin Ling is aware of.

It's quite weird how different JC and WWX are in showing emotions, but not in the way that one does it and the other doesn't. Just in the way they chose which emotions to show and which they don't feel like they can express genuinely.

Like, you'd think that WWX is the more protective of the two, the kinder one, the more understanding, wouldn't you? He's the protagonist, he's perfect! He had a son in Burial Mounds (they say)! The juniors flock to him! He feels guilty for Yanli's death and is so caring!

Nope, he has little idea what to do with kids. He likes them, and he will protect them when needed, and he may be a good fun company... But he's not really kind in his affection and doesn't know how to console someone properly.

Not that Jiang Cheng is stellar at the consoling part - but he does it. When JL starts crying on that boat, only one of them reacts accordingly (what happened, who upset you?), the other one doesn't know what to do and so does nothing.

It's not to say that WWX is a bad person, just that some stan's obsession with making him this perfect father figure is baffling. Like, he wasn't raising Wen Yuan, he was the fun uncle that was there. Wen Yuan was raised by the Wen and then by the Lan Sect. He has no idea how to treat Jin Ling and makes no allowances for the kid's character, dispensing all the good advice he patently doesn't follow... like a sort of a scruffy big brother, not a father figure.

And, JC doesn't mince words, but he's there and he reacts accordingly when needed. He is overprotective and Jin Ling knows it and learned to live with it, and fight against it when he feels he needs to.

I think that JC took the bones of his parenting style from his mother, because that's the one parent he had absolute certainty cared for him. And, want it or not, the way she raised him did end up making him a good, successfull leader - which was absolutely crucial in the times he had to live through (channeling JFM'S style didn't get him far in the beginning, after all). He's not abusive towards Jin Ling and never was. Madame Yu's abuse also wasn't born out of senseless evil - it started as a need to make him formidable in front of a father that didn't care for him and a world that knew his shixiong was better. So that someone didn't get a great idea that they can walk all over him...

...Which now made me wonder how different JFM and MMY actually were to what we're told they were.

Like, JFM praised WWX for being forward and fearless and taking action - but he was himself a man who didn't take action unless absolutely forced to. Attempting impossible apparently didn't mean attempting to have a good family life once he decided him and his wife were incompatible. He just checked out.

And JC is apparently 'like Madame Yu' because he's emotional and looks at the bigger picture before deciding to act - but she'd the one that actually acts in this marriage. She goes on night-hunts, she raises the sect heir, she arranged Yanli's marriage, she wants the rumours of Wwx's parentage cleared, she flies off the handle when the Wen overstep... Her emotional expression was shit in the opposite direction to JFM's, but she was active in her role.

Wei WuXian, “I hit you so that you can think about your uncle. He’s not someone who likes to poke his nose into other people’s business. For your sake, he went around flaunting his strength in front of all those other sects, receiving so many jabbing remarks. And now you’re saying his surname isn’t Jin. If he heard this, wouldn’t he feel disappointed?”

Jin Ling paused in surprise before he fumed, “That’s not what I meant! I…”

Wei WuXian asked instead, “Then what did you mean?”

Jin Ling, “I! I…”

The first ‘I’ was full of confidence, while the second ‘I’ began to lose air. Wei WuXian, “I, I, I—I’ll say it for you. This is what you mean. Even though Jiang Cheng is your uncle, after all, he’s still an outsider to the LanlingJin Sect. In the past, he’s already helped you a couple of times, but if he messed about too much with someone else’s domain, it’d be hard for him not to be a target of attack in the future, for you not to bring him any trouble, am I right?”

Jin Ling raged, “What do you think?! So you understand, don’t you?! Then why did you hit me?!”

Wei WuXian landed another slap, “That was exactly what I meant to do! Can’t you say anything properly? Such wholesome words, and out of your mouth they sound especially gross!”

So this is the part in the extra people are talking about, and its honestly hilarious that antis love to use this as Evidence that jin ling is cutting ties with mean nasty abusive jiujiu because he sucks in favor of Perfectly Loving da-jiujiu wwx. This is also often used for extra evidence that wwx hates jc and is done with him because when /I/ hate a guy I always advocate for our shared nephew to rely on him more. Don't we all do this.

I feel like Jin Ling could state "I love my jiujiu so much and am so grateful to have him in my life!" and people would be like HE'S ONLY SAYING IT BECAUSE JC MADE HIM! 😡

meanwhile, WWX could show up to Lotus Pier to clearly and openly communicate that he wants to still have a relationship with JC and clear the air between them to start fresh, and people would lament how tragic it was that poor uwu baby Wei Ying had soooo little self-esteem that he would voluntarily go be abused, or something.

(But for real, WWX, stop hitting the tween. Unless your end goal is to frustrate JL so much that JC to kick your ass, you are undercutting your own point.)

[naw-naw-honeyimgood]

ChengQing (lmao never realized that was their fucking ship name)

so pros of (Jiang Cheng/Wen Qing):

one of the few possible het ships available to mdzs fans like there are all of five named female characters and this is the only one not in an established het pairing. and like sure ive seen yanli w/ someone else a couple times but you CANT put her with JIANG CHENG and i cant say ive ever seen mianmian in a serious relationship in fics with anyone besides either her canon hubby or a chick (usually yanli, wen qing herself, or even sometimes both lmao).

it’s basically written itself in cql!! he has a very obv and clear crush on her, even gives her a comb and offers to help her! she seems interested but the way the storyline went it was simply not meant to be :’(

you get to pair off jiang cheng!! ngl once u finish mdzs its kinda sad for everyone not wangxian (in their generation/above) cuz theyre the only one that get a happy ending. Everyone else is forever alone / depressed / bitter or a combination thereof. so it’s nice to see jiang cheng getting a happy ending!

he... gets... kids...? like ngl as a childless person that is happy to stay that way thats not exactly a pro in my eyes but you might look at his relationship w/ jin ling and say “he’s a great father! he deserves to be a father!” which okay good news! wen qing can bear children!

Now. Cons. 

for one thing the fact that you have a lack of options doesnt exactly mean every possible het pairing can have good chemistry even if you change circumstances enough. there comes to a point where certain pairings can only be really viable if one or both of them are ooc.

lets be honest im willing to bet that AT LEAST 80% of the reason cql introduced this ship was because they were not allowed to make the wangxian pair explicitly Together (and i dont even mean anything specifically sexual), and they needed SOME SORT of romance to feature in the story. xuanli doesnt count because theyre an established background ship,  the jiang parents dont count as romance, we aint talkin about the villain relationships, and lbr, mianmian already had a lot more signif in cql than mdzs. so it makes sense that they took the arguably most important male chara besides wangxian and made him have a crush on the most important female character that wasnt his SISTER. 

what im trying to say is that cql pulled that pairing out of a hat. if you look at canon at ALL i highly doubt there would ever have been feelings, just as there never were. we dont quite know the age dif but we know that wen qing was the older sister and wen ning might have been a bit younger? than the boys? cannot quite remember but we dont know if she was only a year or two older or if it was like. mingjue and huaisang. we dont know! and i canNOT see jiang cheng going for an older chick. also their personalities would clash So Much. she has older sis vibes and not the gentle kind like yanli. she snaps at wen ning’s mumbling and stuff a good couple times- you think she’d tolerate jiang cheng’s emotional immaturity? hah. 

this also kinda segues into my main point of: as depressing as it is that jiang cheng is forever alone unless you pair him off... he would honestly put whoever you pair him off with through hell. he’s not nice. so many jiang cheng stans like to argue that he’s a traumatized kid that was raised to channel his emotions through anger (and raises bitterness under his skin like an ugly puppy) but inside he has a heart of gold, and they’re... not exactly wrong! i mean- literally every younger chara is traumatized in some way. but... that doesn’t really... excuse the shit he’s pulled? as much as jiang cheng stans like to forget: jin guangyao was RIGHT when he said that jiang cheng’s insecurities got wei ying killed. his CLOSEST ALLY. 

tying back to wen qing we have their actual CANON interactions (or lack thereof). wen qing didn’t exactly protect wei ying and jiang cheng out of the goodness of her heart when lotus pier fell: she was protecting wen ning (her BROTHER) from the repercussions of his own actions by saving wei ying (and Jiang Cheng ig idk he was just there bUT YOUNG MASTER WEI-)

not QUITE sure why she agreed to doing the golden core transfer (maybe scientific curiousity? i mean she had an unproven medical theory and here was a volunteer) but it def wasnt For Jiang Cheng.

and then the next time she saw him? do you guys remember the next time she saw him? it’ was when jiang cheng came up to the burial mounds to kill wen ning’s corpse and tell wei ying to turn over the wens. 

KEEP IN MIND that jiang cheng KNOWS wen ning and qing SAVED HIS FUCKING ASS after lotus pier (not How but he KNOWS THIS) and yet he still tells wei ying to hand them over.

he makes wei ying choose between what amounts to the cultivation world and his morals. 

that does not a good healthy relationship make. also again their personalities would clash like so bad. i love wen qing way more but you have to admit her personality is super similar to madame yu’s. and we already agreed that jiang cheng was traumatized as a kid. im not saying fengmian didnt have a hand in it but you gotta admit a good amount was madam yu and her insecurites and accusations she piled on her son. and you wanna pair him up romantically with someone who won’t take his shit and smile? will call him out? HAH.

im not saying this because i think jiang cheng should be with a softer personalitied (guy) like lan xichen or wen ning or huaisang because god knows those pairings have their own issues. im just saying that in canon-verse all i can ship whole-heartedly is jiang cheng / therapy, but since there is not therapy in canon-verse, or even if there WAS then there’s no way he’d admit to needing it, then yeah he can stay single for all his bitter life. better that than making jiang parent relationship 2.0 like fuck.

(this of course means that in modern aus where he DOES get therapy i am Open)

also real quick but jiang cheng was NOT a good parent to jin ling and i will not take constructive criticism like sure he was better than the jiang parents and the lan parents but that is SUCH a low fuckin bar and it’s a fact that in chapter 9 jin ling literally thinks “if I can’t slice off her head with this blow, I will die here- death it is then!!” (taken gratefully from the exiled rebels scanlation) and that is NOT a healthy-minded child.

the only healthy minded children is like. jingyi. and probably sizhui. although i am not here for the way the lan sect raise children but sometimes you have to take what you can get.

also i want you to look me in the eye and tell me that wen qing could and would do anything besides throw down with someone that so much as looked at her brother wrong

because jiang cheng apparently decided to lay the blame for jin zixuan’s death at wen ning’s feet (which is incredibly ironic considering he blames wei ying for yanli’s death??? like i feel like he could stand to use his brain cells a bit more??) and repeatedly tried to kill him.

[tsubasabasahazard]

Okay I have to express my stress with Mo Dao Zu Shi and I don’t like twitter that much, so here I go. btw I just finished chapter 88.

- Fuck Xue Yang, I live with someone that reminds me of him a lot and I hate him

- Xiao Xingchen A-Qing and Song Lan deserved better I need fanfics to cope

- Wei Wuxian for fucks sake how are you so dumb for love

- Jiang Cheng please fuck off, your homophobic ass is stressing me out every day, also stop threatening your only nephew

- I wanna slap Jiang Cheng, but I also wanna hug and kiss him

- Wei Wuxian love of my life

- Wen Ning why are you so cute? I can’t take this much cuteness

- Madam Yu and Uncle Jiang make me cry every damn time, I need fanfics to cope

- do I even need to mention Jin Lings parents? I cried so much, more fanfic and fanarts to cope

- the core- THE CORE I CANT

- I feel bad for Wuxian’s sword, I hate it here

- Wen Ning is so happy catching up with A-Yang, I love them so much

- Wangxian being the first exemple of love to the kids, I stan

- I wanna hit Jiang Cheng so bad- THE CORE

- I knew the core thing was too suspicious, I knew there was something to Wuxian and his thing with Suibian (his sword), BUT I DID NOT EXPECT FOR THIS MUCH PAIN AND ANGST

- seriously my heart ached, I felt my heart, the organ, ache, pain, like suffocating, when I read “Because the core inside of u is his” DAMN MU FUCKING HEART

- Jiang Cheng if I hear/read you say one more time that u hate or feel disgust for wangxian I WILL GIVE UP ON YOU I SWEAR

- I don’t know what is my thing with Jiang Cheng, but I might have a crush on him, not sure

- I see myself in Wuxian sometimes, I also wish I could be more like him, not the hero side, just the brave side, AND I WANT A LAN ZHAN TOO

- usually Lan Zhan would be my type, always and ever I like the quiet cool one’s, but he’s second on my list, first is Wuxian of course, then Lan Zhan and then Jian Cheng

- 4Madam Yu (I hate her but shes hot and cool), 5Nie Mungjue (so cool, I’d like to take him to therapy), 6Nii sama (Lan Xichen) sincerely I would like to marry this man, he is the type I would marry and love to spend my life with, the rest is the rest. I did kind of have on Uncle Jiang, but he’s Madam Yu’s.

- anyway, back to suffering and angst with hopes of smut and happiness (I was promised smut and romance, I��ve been given pain and suffering)

[chenqingssuibian]

Jiang Yanli and Wei Wuxian for the ask meme

two-for-one special, huh?

from this post!

How I feel about this character:

Jiang Yanli: ULTIMATE EXAMPLE OF CHARACTERS WHO DESERVED BETTER. Jiang Yanli is everything. She is the it girl. She is my favorite female character except for MAYBE A-Qing. She makes me wish I had a big sister, y’all. God, I wish she had gotten to meet her son - like, actually meet him, and get to know him. (When she died, he was... what, a year old at most? Not MUCH personality there, gotta say.) I wish she had gotten to grow old, man. Jiang Yanli was born to be a grandma, and the fact that she never got to be. Is upsetting. My girl is artistic, she is smart, she is brave (standing up to Jin Zixun!!!! A man who is 100% stronger than her!!!!! From a much stronger and wealthier sect!!!!) and GOD is she kind. Yanli, my beloved <3

Wei Wuxian: He is the main character and he is the main character for a REASON. This man? A mess, through and through. He is also a genius and he will not let you forget it, nor will he let you forget how SEXY he is. Yes Wei Wuxian we know your ass is fat you don’t need to remind me. I love this freaky lil necromancer. So sexy of him to invent that. He doesn’t have a SINGLE uncomplicated relationship, no, that’s too easy. He doesn’t even get to have a simple relationship with A-Yuan, because of course he doesn’t. Wei Wuxian is a flawed man who has committed atrocities and kindnesses in turn. He is simultaneously a grave robber who desecrates corpses on the regular, and ALSO the kind of dude who will attempt (and succeed) to resurrect a guy who he barely knows, even though it seems hopeless, because he is duty-bound. He takes his debt to the Wen siblings so, so seriously, he takes so much so seriously and that is why he doesn’t put effort into, for example, naming his weapons, or other bullshit. He has priorities, man. I love him. 

Romantic Ships:

Jiang Yanli: I’m a slut for xuanli, my token straight ship. Half of it is because I just really love Jin Ling, and if they weren’t a thing... he wouldn’t be either. But ALSO: Jin Zixuan resents her not because she’s her, but because he is being forced to marry her. Once that pressure is pulled off (though honestly? Not completely, because let’s be real - Madame Jin was probably pushing for that marriage all through Sunshot) and he gets the chance to... actually get to know her? He falls in love, y’all. I like to think Jiang Yanli, softhearted as she is, made him work to woo her as much as she was able. Gotta put effort into Jiang Yanli, Zixuan, it’s what she DESERVES! Other than them, yanqing is very good! I read some fics where she married Lan Xichen, which was lovely, and then there’s that series where she gets married to Jin Guangyao instead of Zixuan (though I can’t remember the name of it, rip.) There are very many options, for Yanli, and all of them good. give her a harem

Wei Wuxian: Wangxian goes without saying - they’re the core of the series, after all, if I didn’t like them at least a little... there wouldn’t be a point in me running a blog for this series, would there? Ningxian, unrequited or otherwise, is also very sexy. Wangningxian, too, and, as mentioned in the ask about Lan Xichen, I am into xixian! Xiaoxian also slaps - I’ve written a blurb for them, and plan on expanding it into something larger... at some point. Also, there are some really great (though DEFINITELY not for the light-hearted) xuexian fics out there, if you’re interested.

Non-Romantic Ships/BroTPS:

Jiang Yanli: Yanli and her brothers, Yanli and Wen Ning, Yanli and Everyone, Basically. Everyone should be friends with Jiang Yanli. She is very friend-shaped, and honestly? If everyone was her friend, a lot of shit would’ve gone down better. 

Wei Wuxian: I think the dynamic between Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng, and Jiang Yanli is just. So fuckin’ delicious. There are layers of love and devotion and propriety and conflicts of all of those things and GOD. I love them. I also thing Wei Wuxian should’ve been a menace as a child on the streets with Xue Yang. I would’ve liked to see it. Nie Huaisang is also a Very Good Bro, who I love him with immensely (and also think he should kiss a little bit)

Unpopular Opinion:

Jiang Yanli: Not to NSFW, but a lot of y’all seem to think she’s the kinkiest bitch on the block, and honestly? I don’t see it. I think her favorite position is missionary. I am so sorry to the pegging stans I just don’t think she has the core strength to make that good.

Wei Wuxian: HE. IS. MORALLY. GRAY. AT. BEST. Particularly during Sunshot and the immediate aftermath, but honestly, Wei Wuxian is not the liberator of the people, or something. He is a very talented man who, when he feels it is the right thing to do, will do anything - and what is right can be subjective and situational. He’s his own villain in a lot of ways, and the villain of many other people’s stories. Honestly, I can’t blame people for being afraid of him, or trying to put limits on what he can do - unchecked power is always bad. Always. Even when someone I like has it. 

What I wish would happen/had happened in canon:

Jiang Yanli: Uh. I wish she had fucking LIVED? I get WHY she had to die, so Jin Ling could... be Jin Ling, and Jiang Cheng would finally have something he really, truly couldn’t forgive Wei Wuxian for. I get that her death is the final nail in his coffin, or whatever. But seeing her simply get INJURED for him would’ve been enough, I think? I don’t think she needed to die, is what I’m saying, and I think MDZS could’ve been even more interesting, narratively speaking, if she hadn’t. Then again, I’m a Xuan Lu simp, so it is possible I simply wish we had had More Of Her.

Wei Wuxian: Therapy, as always. Otherwise, he’s pretty much got it made? Man came back from the dead, got some old friends back, solved a mystery, found out his sort-of son he raised in a graveyard for a while wasn’t dead at all, and then got married to the love of his life. He’s good on that front. Reconciliation with Jiang Cheng is really all I want, past that.

[threephasebird]

Hello friend, it's Nicole from TAD discord, so sorry for awkwardly & randomly sliding into your dms. I've noticed that you've been reblogging a lot of The Untamed recently and I have just finished The Untamed & literally cannot think about anything else. I'm obsessed. Anyway, I've also noticed from your blog that your favorite seems to be JGY and I find that *fascinating*. He's very much not my fav, but he's such a complex character that I would love to hear your thoughts & feelings & analysis?

And to be completely clear, I will never try to debate with you or say your opinions are wrong or immoral or anything. I'm not an anti, I've stanned plenty of villains in my time. I'm just genuinely curious. I think the fact that you have such different feelings about this character is part of the beauty of stories and a testament to how complex and smart this particular story is.

Hello friend! First of all, thank you for your ask -- I love talking about my fictional faves, so there’s no need to apologize at all! There are definitely people out there who have already posted much more cohesive and succinct character analysis for JGY, but I’ve sat down for a bit to find an answer to the question of why I, personally, like him so much. I ended up finding six possible ways to answer this question, which I’ll list below and then go into (a lot) more detail under the cut. Hope you enjoy!

1) I like him because his motivations as a villain are complex and understandable

2) I like him because there’s no easy solution to his conflicts

3) I like him because he interacts with the story in a unique way

4) I like him because when we see him on top of his game, it’s fun to watch

5) I like him because LXC likes him

6) JGY is very small and has dimples

So, onward! (2.7k)

1) I like him because his motivations as a villain are complex and understandable

One possible way of looking at JGY is that throughout the entire story, his end goal is to eliminate all of the Jin family and come out on top as sect leader, chief cultivator and most powerful person in the cultivation world. However, I personally find it more intriguing to think that his specific plans shifted throughout the story and that he didn’t follow a long con the way NHS did, but that the common ground in everything he does is that he’s motivated by wanting security. Then, everything that he does afterwards is a step-by-step escalation when no matter what he does and how far he comes, his goal is always dangled right in front of him, but ultimately impossible to reach.

When he joins the Nie clan, on a superficial level it seems that this place could offer him the security he wants and needs, especially with NMJ protecting him -- but on the flip side of the coin, no one apart from NMJ and NHS seem to respect him, and his security entirely depends on NMJ’s goodwill. It’s an exteremely fragile position that could probably only ever last for a limited amount of time. Even if JGY never killed the guard captain and wasn’t thrown out of the Unclean Realm, how would the future have looked like for him? NMJ’s life expectancy was low to begin with, and once he had died (of natural causes, in this hypothetical case), NHS wouldn’t have been able to hold the same protective hand over JGY as his brother, and JGY would have become the disrespected advisor to the disrespected clan leader. (On a side note, I personally don’t think JGY released XY to get the yin iron -- I think it makes more sense that he wanted to use XY as bargaining chips against WC, seeing how he goes to free him immediately after WC asks for NMJ to release XY, to save the Unclean Realm and, in extension, his own ass.)

After JGY is thrown out, he’s basically out of options -- it’s go big or go home, because which other clan would take him in now? So he sets his sight on being recognized by JGS once more, and in order to succeed, he derives the plan of becoming a spy under WRH and do something so “heroical” that after the war, JGS has no other choice but to accept him into his clan. And at first, it seems like he succeeds and that he finally gets everything he wished for -- his father recognizes him as a son and gives him a position, he’s part of the Jin clan, he has power, he’s secure! But then it turns out that he was wishing on the monkey’s paw. His father doesn’t truly recognize him, and even in the Jin clan he’s disrespected (by JGS, by Madam Jin, by Jin Zixun), he doesn’t truly hold power (he just has to do whatever JGS tells him to), and he’s not secure (JGS instrumentalizes him because he’s useful to him right now, but does that mean he’ll be useful forever? So there’s a constant threat there).

I think the only reason JGS officially adopts JGY is that it allows him to claim the victory over WRH for the Jin clan and to expand his own power. Instead of JGY being recognized, JGS instrumentalizes him from the very first second and to make it worse, he makes JGY his attack dog the same way WRH did. I think the things JGY does under both WRH and JGS are absolutely horrifying, but I can’t help but also feel horrified for him. Under WRH, I think he tells himself that whatever he does is the lesser evil because it’ll end the war quicker, and that it’ll all be worth it in the end, and as a result, he loses parts of his own humanity there. And then under JGS, it’s the same fucked up shit again, except that this time, he also wants so very badly for JGS to value him, and in addition, he’s also completely out of options now. Without wanting to excuse the things he does under JGS, the only alternative at this point is for him to leave the Jin clan and the cultivation world as a whole, and I do think there’s a definite possibility that JGS would have him killed if he did because he knew too much about JGS’s plans.

Without passing judgment on his involvement in JZX and JZX’s deaths, as well as him killing NMJ and JGS for now (the latter being the one thing that I’m personally most horrified of), I don’t see JGY as a villain who enjoys being the villain the way XY does. I think he’s constantly horrified at himself and compartmentalizes to a degree where he’s actually derailing his own plans. Him throwing out XY immediately after killing JGS reads to me as him wanting to close the chapter of everything they did under JGS -- I think he must have acted out of a visceral emotion there or else he wouldn’t have left XY to die at the side of a road so carelessly (and, in effect, allowed for someone to live on with detailed knowledge of his own deeds). After rising to power (and finally, seemingly, really getting the security he’s always wanted), he doesn’t use that power to become WRH 3.0, but instead to do genuinely good things (such as building the watch towers). That’s not supposed to mean that him not being a cruel despot makes up for everything he’s done, but I find it interesting to think about from the perspective of, what kind of person could he have been if this opportunity had been given to him freely -- if his own class and social standing didn’t prevent him from that? I think he’d have become an incredibly powerful cultivator and clan leader if he’d have the same privilege as JZX.

In a way, I see JZX, WC, and JGY as narrative foils. WC shows us who JZX might have become if JGS treated him the same way as WRH treats WC. But, JGS doesn’t -- he shields his own son from this part of the Jin clan, and basically allows him to live in a completely different reality as JGY! JZX’s whole character arc is one of personality development, and becoming a hero, and falling in love -- he doesn’t have a clue about his father wanting to get his hands on XY and the Stygian tiger amulet and arguably about at least part of the war crimes he commits against the Wen clan. It’s not part of his life. In a way, JGY is the sacrifice being made to allow him to live his life unaware because in him, JGS found someone else to do his dirty work.

2) I like him because there’s no easy solution to his conflicts

Sometimes, when you want to be a villain apologist, all you need to do is point at one or a few bits of the story and say, “well if they hadn’t done that...”. (See, for example, Anakin Skywalker -- you wanna write a RotS canon divergence fixit? Just have Obi-Wan come back approximately one hour earlier and you have it, because before Anakin kills the Jedi even the Younglings he’s basically completely redeemable.) With JGY, you don’t get to have that. There’s no single turning point where you could say, “if he had picked the other option, he could have had a happy ending”. And part of the reason for that, which makes him a tragic character in my eyes, is that he crucially lacks options at many turning points.

In order to write a canon divergence AU for JGY where he comes out unscathed and redeemable, you’d have to go pretty far back in the story, and even then, you’d have to work hard to find a solution to his story that doesn’t a) rely on someone saving him (such as: LXC brings him to Cloud Recesses, or: JGS has a change of heart, frees his mother, and sends them a comfortable monthly pension), b) having him be dependent on someone else’s goodwill (such as: staying in the Unclean Realm in a delicate position).

If we don’t want to go back right to the very beginning or change fundamental parts of the story, well... As I’ve mused about above, if we let him stay in the Unclean Realm, he’d have never reached his goal of security either. If he never became a spy during the Sunshot Campaign, he wouldn’t have been accepted into the Jin clan and would have been out of options. If he never committed the atrocities for JGS, JGS would probably have kicked him out or killed him. (I do think there’s a lot of truth in what JGY tells NMJ in the empathy flashback, on that instance.) If he didn’t kill NMJ, there is a distinct possibility that NMJ would have killed him -- we see him try three times on screen, after all. (I’m leaving out the parts about him being directly responsible for JZX’s and JZX’s death in the show, as well as for controlling the corpses at Nighless City and JYL’s death, because it’s not in the book and I think it takes away from WWX’s character. As for QS’s and their son’s deaths...I personally do not see strong motivation for him to kill them, but in the end, we just don’t know which is, on a side note, a thing I really like about The Untamed/MDZS! Sometimes we just don’t know because the only people who know for sure can’t tell us anymore.) One option could be for him to confide to JZX, bring him over to his own side, and non-violently overthrow JGS, which would be a good and satisfying ending both to his and JZX’s character arcs -- but I also think there’s a high possibility JZX would hold JGY responsible for what he and JGS did, and never trust him with power again.

(Again, one thing I really do not wish to excuse away is how he killed JGS, and I just. Desperately wished he didn’t.)

I’ve been going over and over the possibilites for fix-its and canon divergence AUs, but in the end, I’ve arrived at the conclusion that the only real choice JGY has throughout the story is whether to remove himself from the narrative or stay in it. He could make the choice to give up his mother’s dream, reject his father, and leave cultivation world (and, on a meta level, the story!) to become a “nobody”. (Small side note, though -- living on which skills?) If he doesn’t -- well, as soon as he enters the game, the cards are stacked against him.

To pick up on the meta level comment, I do find it fascinating that in a sense, JGY not only has to struggle for respect and recognition within the story, but that what he does also serves to keep his character part of the story. He could choose to give up and leave (and thus come out of the story redeemable), but then he wouldn’t be part of the story anymore.

3) I like him because he interacts with the story in a unique way

Continuing with the last point, JGY interacts with the story in two unique ways that distinguish him basically from all the other characters. He’s not actually supposed to be part of the story, but that he basically claws his way in. But that also means that his class and social status cannot be removed from any of the conflicts he encounters in universe -- they’re at the heart of all of them. In the empathy flashback, he says to NMJ, “You always scold me for indecent scheming. You always say that you are just and straight [...] A decent man shouldn’t resort to devious stratagems. [...] You’re of noble birth and have profound cultivation. What about me? How can I be the same? First, I don’t have the foundation of cultivation. No one has ever taught me that since I was a child! Second, I don’t have any background. Do you think that my position is very solid in the Jin clan of Lanling?” What I find so intriguing about this scene is that he’s right when he says he’s different from the others both in text and on a meta level because most of the other characters are never faced with the same decisions and have a natural place within the story (apart, to some degree, WWX and XY, where also interesting parallels can be drawn). And the other characters are, in a way, self-righteous to judge him when almost none of them come out of the story without blood on their hands -- WWX’s revenge, JC torturing demonic cultivators after WWX’s death, and so on...The entire cultivation world (even NMJ! even LXC!) were complicit in the war crimes against the Wen. But when the cultivation world turns against JGY, they are the most appalled by the things I as a viewer would be the most lenient towards (murdering JGS), and don’t care at all about the thing that horrifies me the most (murdering the sex workers).

There’s an interesting post by @pumpkinpaix​ analysing how class dynamics work in the story, which I highly recommend! I don’t want to repeat what has been said there already in much better ways than I can, but among other things, it makes some really interesting points about how much JGY’s class is tied with his motivations.

4) I like him because when we see him on top of his game, it’s fun to watch

Aside from any analysis, part of the reason why I like him so much is that when he’s acting as a villain, he’s just so much fun to watch. When WWX breaks into his vault in paperman form and JGY has approximately 5 minutes to get rid of the head, the torture bench (?) and anything suspicious, contact and inform Su She, run to a different building and come back, and nonetheless he manages to convince everyone but WWX and LWJ that he’s the victim in this situation, it’s just. Peak entertainment? For a short time, he’s on top of the game, and then he’s backed into a corner and becomes sloppy, and finally loses it all due to sentimentality (if he didn’t want to take his mother’s body with him and say goodbye to LXC, I’m sure he could have fled the country). I think Zhu Zanjin did an amazing job as an actor to portray how JGY is constantly assessing everything, how 23638 emotions flicker over his face in half a second, how his whole body language shows the constant anxiety and pressure and stress and fear he’s under, and how we actually get to see in his microexpressions when JGY chooses a path and commits to the acting and emotional manipulation to follow it through.

5) I like him because LXC likes him 

Here’s a secret: Actually, LXC is my favourite character. And LXC loves JGY a lot. So I’m kind of contractually obliged to at least love JGY a little bit as well?

On a more serious note, I’m very intrigued in their relationship because I do think what they had was genuine. I view it as two people being very open and honest and true with each other, while placing a lot of things outside the brackets and crossing them out. LXC even says that he was aware of some things JGY did (which ones? how? I need to know) but that he justified them to himself. I think they both realised that they could have had something very special, but under the given circumstances, LXC wouldn’t have been able to help JGY (see: point 2) even if he knew everything. Still, they were obviously very close and trusted each other as much as they could. I think in the end, when LXC seemed to have decided to stay and die with him, JGY pushed him away because he was the only genuinely good part of his life, and he felt like he couldn’t rightfully deprive the world of LXC. It’s all very tragic, and I’m very intrigued to explore what they could have been in a slightly softer world.

6) JGY is very small and has dimples

I can only speak for myself, but when I was watching, I was so prone at any point to believe in him no matter what was revealed. Look at him! Could this man do something wrong?

[i-am-too-tired-for-this-shit]

Wait but like... if one were to write a sect swap for Mingcheng... doesn't that mean that Huaisang would be the older brother?? Since we know that he went to study to the Cloud Recesses for like 2 or 3 times before the Jiang siblings went... what would that mean?? How would that be like?? Would Jiang Cheng step up as Mingjue did and let Huaisang have his fun with his art, and birds, and fans, or would Huaisang actually step up himself and act as a competent sect leader, because he wants to protect his younger brother? No, but like, seriously...

And also, considering the fact that he is not the sect leader of the Nie sect, Nie Mingjue would not be prone to qi deviations... but Huaisang would *or Jiang Cheng, if we consider the possibility of him telling Huaisang that he can just relax and let him handle the sect*

And we already know that Jiang Cheng is insecure because of the A++++++ parenting that he got from Jiang Fengmian and Madam Yu.. but would he be different? Like, you know, less insecure? More confident? Would he befriend Wei Wuxian or Jin Zixuan or Lan Wangji? Or would Huaisang do it? What kind of relationships and alliances would the Nie sect actually have? Because we know that the Nies have a really strong alliance with the Lans because Mingjue and Xichen are childhood friends... but that would go to the Jiangs now.. and considering the fact that Huaisang, if he decides to act like a proper sect leader, in means to actually protect Jiang Cheng *because we know how protective he can get when he really wants to*, then he would not have met Wei Wuxian, right? So yeah... this is really something that started bugging me now because I need answers.

Wait a second... if Nie Mingjue is the Heir of Lotus Pier *since he is older than Yanli and Wei Wuxian... we stan Wei Wuxian- the youngest sibling agenda*... What happens to Meng Yao???

Like... is he gonna stay on the streets, or in a brothel, or are the Nies still gonna take him in? And we know that they would not flip shit like Mingjue did if he indeed killed that general... yet again... Xue Yang would have been brought to Lotus Pier, because they didn't bring Xue Yang to Qinghe because it's the Nie Sect there, but because of Mingjue's reputation as the most corect and just of the sect leaders... he would still be just and level-headed therefore Xue Yang would be brought to Lotus Pier... thus, everybody lives, because no one actually became evil. *although I am really concerned about the acting sect leader of the Nie sect*

WAIT A SECOND

Would that mean that... Jiang Cheng's core would be alright? And like... it would be alright... because yeah... and Wen Zonghui would like never even come close to capturing Nie Mingjue, or if he did, Nie Mingjue I think would have escaped somehow... if he ever even did let Lotus Pier get destroyed at all... I don't think he would have... I feel like he stayed there and fought and i also feel like they would have won if they had Nie Mingjue there, but that's just my wishful thinking...

Y'all where are the NMJ and JC polyshippers at like can you imagine the kind of lovely fanart that we could have if more of us jumped on the bandwagon like

Mingjue in cord wrapped or ribbon wrapped braids instead of just the coils, or if it's one of the Jiang sibs doing his hair like small wrapped braids in his ponytail if you're leaning more towards donghua Mingjue

The wrapped braid style is something I remember seeing on both CQL Yanli and WWX but not on Jiang Cheng and I'm a bit sad about that tbh

Actually just like let Mingjue have hair ribbons too like I know that's WWX's kind of thing design wise but I feel like da-ge could rock it too? Like it can even be black or gray ffs but with subtle gold or bronze colored threads to catch the light depending on which design you prefer

But also like JC in the Qinghe Nie coiled style with specially commissioned floral hairpins sounds cool too... It's hard to imagine him in a color that isn't purple but I feel like properly reimagined it could work! Like the small hair ornaments that pin da-ge's braids to the sides in CQL do look floral to me, though it's hard for me to tell squinting at my phone but!! In an AU where Nie bros gift him smth, my bet is it's gonna be some kind of hair ornament I mean Huaisang gave MY one of his own... This is all in some kind of vague polyverse where no one gets betrayed and dies btw but I feel like JC could use a bit of love and affection in the form of somebody other than himself doing his hair for him

Also I know some people have done sect swaps for fanfic with Xicheng but I feel like doing it for MingCheng, NieLan, etc would be a really cool challenge tbh. Not just the writing of it but seeing what other ppl come up with would be so cool??

[plan-d-to-i]

Okay but let’s be honest here for a second, JC stans don’t even stan the actual character, they stan their OC/fanon version of JC, because all the things they attribute to him as his positives and reasons why “he’s a good an complex character” are not even real:

He’s a good sect leader: he’s not, the regular people his sect is supposed to protect are scared of him (as we were told in canon by the innkeeper lady before wangxian confronted jgy). So his people are terrified of him, he constantly grabs people to torture them, the other sects have shaky relationships with him and he doesn’t even have an heir

He’s a good guardian to JL: hell no, he raised that kid on a diet of spite and hatred and made him as insecure, entitled and full of rage as him. JL’s only saving grace was getting to know WWX and the other juniors and expanding his social circle, which helped him grow much more in like 3 months than his uncle did in over 20 years.

He’s actually a caring brother deep down!: is he? Like even putting aside how shitty of a “brother” he was to WWX, he wasn’t even that good to JYL either. Sure he cared for her and all that, but he was more than ready to give her away to the Jin sect when she was still apprehensive about the marriage, he completely ignored her last dying wish by killing the guy she sacrificed her life for and then raised her son in the worst way possible to be as bitter as him.

He raised his sect from nothing!: well considering YunmengJiang wasn’t destroyed or burned during the sunshot campaing (as we can see from the novel) and considering he received support from the other clans in getting soldiers during the campaign, had the best soldier in the whole war on his sect and because of said soldier attracted lots of disciples after the war was over, how much else was there left to do? Do his sect duties and organize things? Like Xichen had to do after his sect burned down and his dad died, while he also had to fight a war and help people along the way?

Sorry for the rant Plan, just needed to vent a little after seeing so many JC stans talking about this incredible fabrication they concocted in their minds.

Lol no worries go off!! <3 Sorry this is so delayed! x

I agree. there's definitely this vibe jc stans try to give jc of ~emotionally abusive asshole on the outside, covering a heart of gold! Sometimes assholes on the outside are just assholes on the inside tho. That's the more frequent one tbh. It's also a funny attitude in general, bc someone might have a heart of gold on the inside (still not jc tho) but if their actions only end up hurting people and they're just a horrible person to be around what's on the inside hardly matters.

Now I think it's true that jc made Yanli's death all about himself (like everything else ever) but I wouldn't say that "he was more than ready to give her away to the Jin sect when she was still apprehensive about the marriage". Ofc it's an easy marriage to approve of. It was something YZY wanted and jc's thinking has always been in line w hers and socially he's a good match being a Clan heir himself but jc isn't a political, machiavellian juggernaut. I mean I know jyl stans want to act like jyl was a strong independent woman who didn't need no man and she was forced into marriage and had her dreams of being a Clan leader crushed but that's because they're 🤡. jyl always liked jin ZiXuan. And it's not a bad call on her part. He's by far one of the better dudes in the story. She just thought after soupmageddon he found her presence truly bothersome and would never think well of her, so she didn't want to impose on him. ~"Wei WuXian knew she feared that Jin ZiXuan was only inviting her due to Madam Jin’s intentions and didn’t really want to have her with him, so she didn’t wish to trouble him. However, what could Jin ZiXuan know about this?" and ofc in his embarrassment Jin Zixuan initially confirmed this exact fear: "Jin ZiXuan’s voice was ice, “What should you be sorry for? You can think whatever you want to. I wasn’t the one who wanted to invite you anyways. It’s fine if you don’t want to.” This is ofc all cleared up by his shouted confession.

jc is an idiot but I think it's funny he was one of the first to cotton on to the fact there was something different about the way that WWX was treating LWJ from day 1, he was just too homophobic to get what it was and he knew jyl liked jzx AND SHE DID. That's all.