#MY theory

[triple-pupil]

What if he does that before somehow destroying the Ark with Gerald and himself in it. And Stone has to watch from earth Robotnik open his heart to him and then see the explosion up in the sky.

What if when Robotnik comes to make an announcement, he uses the global feed to apologize/profess his love to Stone, because after they split it's the only way Robotnik can communicate with him…

Everyone on earth after watching the moon blow up and then being subjected to a gay love confession by the psychopath who wants to enslave them:

[firinnie]

People laugh that Zeus did a powerpoint presentation to his children and wife before the God Games... but what if it's much sadder? After all, none of them knew Odysseus. So what if Zeus forced them to say exactly what he said? That's why personal arguments would work so well. Imagine the guilt of those gods when the game ended, they were puppets and because of that Athena suffered just before their eyes.

[just-a-lil-otter]

Why I think these two are related

(Click read more to see the theory because this is long)

One way I think they could be related is their similarities both physically and in how they behave

IE: very similar hair and skin color(and possibly eye color), both appearing rather skinny, similar fashion tastes, obsessing over one thing, manipulating people, acting in violence, and possibly anger issues

They also both are quiet and have trouble connecting with people and making friends, and though that doesn't necessarily mean two people are related, I just thought it was worth pointing out

I think they could either be cousins or siblings, long lost or otherwise. Cousins would be an easy answer, but they could very well be siblings!

Hypothetically, their parents could've gotten divorced shortly before or after whichever one is younger - which I'm gonna say is Vincent - was born and each took a kid with them, Bok-su ending up in Korea and Vincent in France

Perhaps their mother stayed in France while pregnant with Vince and their father left for Korea(possibly his home country) with Bok-su

As for them being cousins, it's very simple, their families just lived in different countries! Either way this means that Vincent possibly has some Korean decent and Bok-su has some French, which is kinda cool!

we can also see here that Vincent (possibly) was at the wedding, alongside (possibly) Rody!

This could mean Vincent knew Da-jeong, most likely from Bok-su, and knew her well enough to be invited! Rody could've possibly been a friend of the groom or some other relative

While Rody isn't at all involved in this theory as a whole, I just thought I'd point this out because this could mean Vincent and Rody had met before the events of dead plate and just didn't remember each other :3

Vincent also could be younger in the photo, so I wanna say this was before he got famous or at least a decent amount of years before dead plate/the bistro

This could possibly be while he was a teenager given how he looks in the photos, and given how Bok-su looks to be about her mid or late twenties, that could easily check out

Before anyone mentions the timeline, I did some research and women were aloud to start going to collage in Korea around 1948!

so with Dead Plate taking place in the 1960s and us having little idea when Married in Red takes place, this could easily mean that the game takes place sometime in the 50s when Vincent was a teenager or young adult as I believe he's in his mid or late twenties by the events of Dead Plate

That's basically the whole theory, let me know what you guys think! :3

[bookishdaze]

Noah's Ark for Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes

You know how the story of Caesar is inspired by Moses? Freeing his people and taking them to the promised lands?

Well, to continue this trend of using events and figures from the Bible as inspiration, Noa from Kingdom is based on Noah. They're not subtle about it at all.

Our main ape is named Noa, he saves his people from a flood, and there's a very big boat in the background for good measure. In case it wasn't obvious enough!

However, I believe we are not done with the similarities to Noah from the Bible. The story of Caesar as Moses happened in both Rise and War, actually. So if the similarities to Noah will continue in this new trilogy...what will that look like? Time to speculate!

First things first...we need an Ark, right? What will that look like? For this post and speculation, I will use other movies for inspiration!

Note: I'm not saying these movies were purposefully based on Noah's Ark. This is mostly for ideas and inspiration.

I've thought of bunkers, planes, and boats.

Bunker as the Ark

Okay, this idea came to me after watching Greenland with Gerard Butler. In Greenland, we follow John who has to take his family to a bunker in Greenland because an asteroid is going to hit earth that will wipe out all life. I know a bunker is not a big method of transportation like a boat, but here's why it could fit!

The flood from the Bible was a world-ending event that wiped out everything, right? Well, bunkers are built to withstand world-ending events! Maybe there's a big danger like a virus or bomb that the apes will need to escape from by hunkering down in a bunker.

Even in Kingdom, the apes have to climb deep within the bunker/vault in order to save themselves from the flood. Maybe foreshadowing that a bunker will save them from another "flood" event in the future?

In Greenland, the humans leave the bunker once the dust has settled after nine months of living underground. One of the first things they see are birds, a sign that there is still life on earth. This reminds me of how Noah used birds to see if the waters from the flood had receded enough for it to be safe to leave the Ark. This also makes me think of how Noa's clan raises eagles...

The POTA franchise has always used bunkers in in its story, all the way back to the originals with the mutants from Beneath the Planet of the Apes that lived underground.

Aircraft as an Ark

Some movies/shows that come to mind that use aircraft, planes, and even spaceships as an Ark are Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, Thor Ragnarok, and The Handmaid's Tale.

In GotG Vol. 3, the movie ends with a bunch of animals escaping an exploding spaceship by getting on Knowhere, a spaceship/planet. This reminds me of how Noah had two of each animal on the Ark.

In Thor Ragnarok, Thor gets the people of Asgard on a spaceship in order to escape the destruction of their home world, Asgard.

In season 3 of The Handmaid's Tale, June and other rebels create a plan to get a bunch of children out of Gilead by having them escape on an airplane.

Even before this, when June learns how many others agreed to help, she jokingly replies, "We're gonna need a bigger boat."

I did create this post earlier this year where I discuss how Kingdom could be foreshadowing Noa taking flight in an aircraft. Where would the apes get a plane? Where would they go? And if it's a plane, what would they be escaping? The humans? Maybe it's both apes and humans escaping something? Other humans? A bomb? A virus? A natural disaster?

Boat as an Ark

This one is very on the nose, lol. I don't have other movies as examples for this one, but the story of Noah uses a literal boat, so I don't think I need to find other examples to prove this as a possibility. I personally don't think it would be a boat, but it could be another neat way to show how apes are advancing. And considering how apes die by drowning a lot in Kingdom, and how other movies like the 2001 POTA shows apes being afraid of water, apes getting on a boat could be a neat way to show how they're no longer afraid of the water?

Soooo that's all I got. A bunker is the one that makes the most sense. I also really like the idea of planes and apes advancing enough to understand flight. Boats I'm not very confident on, but I'm open to all possibilities. Feel free to share your thoughts and ideas!

[triple-pupil]

What if Stone notices the pattern of Robotnik being defeated by Sonic when he's alone, without Stone?

What if, while staring up at the sky, abandoned on earth, Stone thinks "I hope the Team Sonic destroys you... So you finally realize your mistake of leaving me behind." Hoping that Robotnik then comes crawling back to him.

[cacklingstranger]

I just reread Love Bullet and I'm back in obsession mode!

So, theory time!!

In Koharu's backstory, there's this one panel that briefly showed a Cupid's intervention

And like, it isn't seen who that cupid was, and since they don't dwell on it, we're made to assume it was someone random and irrelevant, BUT

Don't we know a certain cupid who uses bombs?

And another thing!! It was Kanna who greeted Koharu when she first woke up as a cupid

Not only that, she was assigned as her mentor

She also seemed to already know that Koharu was best friends with Aki

SO! With all that being said, what if Kanna was watching over Koharu even before the latter became a cupid?

We've seen how perceptive Koharu is when it comes to spotting people who are compatible as a couple

So what if Kanna recognised Koharu's accuracy and started using her love advice to others as basis for which target to shoot?

We've already seen in the pilot that she trusts in Koharu to have the final say

What if the reason Kanna dotes on her so much is because, aside from being her mentor, she had already developed a sort of fondness for her when Koharu was still alive?

Anyway that's all I have in mind! Just some random thoughts from this stranger :D

[elementroar]

This is the "Why ABA and Paracelsus can feel horny" lore/theory post

The main Paracelsus deepdive post is a monster that I'm building in Google docs cos Tumblr can't handle it while it's WIP. This is a separate lore/theory monster I want to get out of my system first.

Here's my theory why ABA is consistently portrayed as being horny for Paracelsus from the start.

Translated excerpt from the Night of Knives Vol.2 audio drama CD, released in 2004 (20 IRL years ago):

Her being horny wasn't so much portrayed in-game in XX/AC+R really, prolly engine/sprite limitations and all; but then STRIVE happens and we get:

It's not just her being horny, and knowing exactly how to rizz Paracelsus up, and clearly has been doing this in her pocket dimension for a while now. PARACELSUS CAN FEEL HORNY NOW TOO!

And I stg I'm not joking...I think there's a legit lore reason for this.

Cos by the end of her arcade mode's flawless ending and according to the latest interviews with Daisuke-san and the game directors, it's explained that Paracelsus' form depends on what ABA thinks of Paracelsus, as well as her general mental stability.

ABA thought Paracelsus looked like a key, and he morphed into a key as part of his nature, which naturally makes him always fit to his wielder's preferences. In my deepdive I'll explain in more detail, but in addition to that, Slayer figured out that since ABA also saw Para as her hopeful "key to the future", Para's heart also began to change to basically fit her ideal of what he is.

So if ABA finds Paracelsus sexually attractive, and has made very obvious physical advances on him for years, then it follows that if she's horny for him, she can make Paras horny for her over time too, just like how Para is getting more key-like subconsciously just by being with her all this time.

I don't think this is entirely involuntary on Paracelsus end. I believe how much he wants to react to his wielder's emotions is still in his control...unless they become truly insane like with ABA's Jealous Rage being emotionally powerful enough to override Paras' ability to maintain his key form.

Also he reverts to his 'sharp teeth' design when he gets rizzed up, so he's losing his composure again and prolly holding back most of his...response. It's actually kinda telling cos Para used to just disassociate, ignore, scold ABA when she tries to make advances on him, so him actually responding now and to this degree is...interesting. And ABA seems very aware of this.

And for the bigger question of why ABA, an artificially created human would be created with the ability to feel horny...

Ok, crack theory time, it might be linked to why she apparently can summon an actual alchemical gate just whenever she wants, and even use it as her private pad. ABA doesn't just wanna rizz Paracelsus up as a key, she wants him in a human body since the start too.

Y'all remember Ghostbusters, and what the Gatekeeper and the Keymaster have to do to open the gate...?

[dean-winchesters-clit]

Another theory post about OFMD S2 because it's all I think about anymore

I had a theory forming about the pearl necklace Ed is wearing that I wanted to share with y'all. I was originally speculating about where Ed got the necklace, thinking that maybe he stole it off one of the wedding guests or even the bride because you can see a lot of the women wearing pearl jewelry in these shots.

But the only pearl necklace we see is much larger than the ones Ed is wearing, and I did some digging and found out that pearl necklaces mostly went out of style in Europe due to a war and the church getting all uppity about people being excessive, so it would be unlikely that any of the other women would be wearing pearl necklaces, especially when the earrings and hairpins made with pearls were usually larger and more uniform than the ones we see on Ed's necklace.

So, where did the necklace come from? I think it makes perfect sense that Stede gave it to Ed because of course he did, but when? It's hard to see Ed's neck in any of the shots of him raiding the wedding ship or in the captain's cabin aboard the Revenge, but I think it's safe to say that he doesn't have it at that point in time.

The first time we see it clearly in the trailer is when he's in the forest, confronting the mysterious figure (who I have a theory about, but that's for another time).

So, Ed gets the pearl necklace some time between raiding a bunch of ships as Blackbeard and getting stranded on an island. What could possibly happen in the interim that could cause him to acquire a pearl necklace from Stede?

Well, we all know Mysterious Merchant Susan is definitely the Chinese Pirate Queen Shi Yang/Zheng Yi Sao/Ching Shih or some approximation of her (since the real Zheng Yi Sao was born in 1775). We also know that she's masquerading as a merchant for some reason. What if the scene of Stede and Oluwande at the market happens before Stede sends his message in a bottle to Ed?

What if, when talking about Blackbeard and Ed, Susan convinces Stede to buy a string of these?

Chinese freshwater pearls. They're smaller and less uniform than the pearls we associate with classic European pearl jewelry. And they match up in style and size pretty well to the pearls on Ed's necklace.

What if Stede buys these pearls from Susan and places them in the bottle along with his message to Ed? Then, when Ed gets stranded on the island, he finds the bottle on the beach and the pearls inside. That's why he goes from no pearls on the Revenge to pearl necklace on the deserted island.

Just some food for thought!

Edit

So, @naranjapetrificada pointed something out that kinda sinks this theory, but I do really like where this new info leads us.

Ed is wearing the pearl necklace before being stranded on the island. You can see it in the "fuck you, Stede Bonnet" frame, but it's easy to miss.

There she is, when Ed is very clearly on the deck of the Revenge.

So, this does burn my theory to the ground, but that's okay!! That's the fun of theory crafting! Someone noticed something I didn't and flipped the whole script!

I love the implications that the necklace is something Ed chooses for himself, rather than something he is gifted. He still likes fine things and wants to feel pretty and finds something that makes him feel that way. Babygirl is having a rough time and deserves some happiness, dammit!!

[lukaslosteyelashes]

Why is it important that Luka trained with Su-Han

Luka found out Ladybug’s and Chat Noir’s true identity in "Whishmaker". He might feigned ignorance for a short amount of time and also tried to play it cool, but knowing this secret surely weighting on him.

He not only has to play the therapist to basically everyone and be emotionally there for them and give them advices while he just wants to play his music; but he also have to be careful with his emotions if he is not intending to get akumatized and spitting out Paris's iconic superhero duo's civil identity.

Just look at what happened in "Migration".

He almost got akumatized because he felt that what happened between Kitty Section and Bob Ross was his fault. Not only that, but his emotions also told Monarch that he knows Ladybug's and Chat Noir's identity. And because of all that he couldn't calm down to resist the akuma, the only way he saw to escape from that dreadful situation was to break his precious guitar. At the end of the episode he had to flee Paris; he didn't trust himself, his emotions enough to stay, he was afraid that Monarch might try to akumatize him again. Furthermore, he wasn't safe from other akumatized villain's attack either, he couldn't became Viperion, and he didn't want to rely on Ladybug and Chat Noir to protect him.

That's what so frustrating in akumatization. People can't feel their negative emotions and they have to bottle it up or forcefully resist them, which is really unhealthy. Our emotions, be it positive or negative, they're essentially not our enemy we just have to find methods to deal with them.

And that's where Su-Han comes in the picture.

Do you remember what he did in "Furious Fu"?

"My anger is mine, but I'm not my anger."

This dude just got snaped back to existance into a time when everything is completely different from his time, and the first thing he did was to search for the Miracle box. A dutiful guy, indeed. Obviously, he was angry at Fu for a lot of thing, but as soon as he saw the Akuma, he didn't fall into despair or started panicking. No, instead he started chanting the line above to himself, as if he was casting a spell that chases off the butterfly.

What I think he actually did, was that, he controlled his emotions. He accepted his anger, not suppressing it and transformed it into protective barrier, instead of letting it take a hold of him. This method looks more effective than Ladybug's Magical Charms that Shadowmoth easily overpowered.

So, there's a boy who can't seem to cope with his strong emotions; what could be the best solution for him? Mastering the ancient teachings of a guy from an ancient time (I know he's actually not that old). I can't imagine how could they've met or if they know about each other (that Luka's the Holder of that Snake Miraculous and that Su-Han is a celestial guardian of the Miraculous); but Luka's time in Tibet could be very important for his character. He could've learned, not just kung-fu, but also how to repel Akumas, and knowing this technique allows him to return to Paris and become Viperion again since the chances for him to get akumatized lowered.

Last but not least, his Holder friends could take lessons from him for free (he might as well charge them tho) to further decreasing the possibility of any Holders getting akumatized. Jagged, Penny and Fang also learned kung-fu, and they might as well learned the Akuma repelling stuff too, how cool would that be! They could also open studio or something where they could teach those things.

Anyways, I really hope we'll see more Luka in season 6 and that he actually learned how to repel Akumas.

[pinkeoni]

The Show is Telling Us That Will Shouldn’t Have Survived

Inspired by a conversation with @aemiron-main I wanted to point out how it seems that the show is deliberately telling us, that Will shouldn’t have been able to survive the Upside Down.

In season one, there is this brief exchange a lab worker and Joyce.

He makes note that the atmosphere is toxic, to which Joyce remarks “But my son’s in there.” There isn’t really a resolve to this line? We never hear how Will was able to survive, just this suggestion that his survival is odd without much elaboration.

And Will does seem pretty weak when he gets to the hospital, but this is also post-agressive Hopper CPR. Either way, Will was at least keeping alive until he was taken and had a vine shoved down his throat. Who knows how long he could’ve stayed alive without intervention.

And then we get this line about water from Erica in season 3—

So the human body will die without water, and yet Will survived in the specifically waterless Upside Down for a week?

I feel like these lines are here to plant the seed in the audiences mind that Will’s survival in the Upside Down is strange, and that there is something that is yet to be revealed in season 5.

[cloverandstuff]

I saw something talking about how Childe's foul Legacy looks similar to Seelies, and I was like "No fucking way,"

...Yes. They actually, somehow, fucking do.

The little antennas, the fluff around the neck, the cape thingy, the Fucking One Eye™

And now we know the seelies are the devolved forms of "Angels" who were incredibly wise and also powerful. Their ancestor was married to a traveller from far away, (who was probably the second descender)

Does this mean that Childe, whose c6 cab be translated to mean "Angel Annihilation", is connected to them?

...I mean, kinda? But not in the way you think.

We know that there are five sinners and that they possessed abilities that could shatter the world. I think, this can also mean they had abilities that tried to replicate divine powers too

We're focusing on Surtalogi "The Foul". He is skirks's master, the creator and original owner of the foul legacy, and in the turn, the reason for Childe's Foul Legacy.

I think Surtalogi tried to replicate the powers of the angels, and in turn, created something that rivalled and contrdicted them. Thus the name, "Angel Annihilation".

Which means...either Surtalogi was really into research and was great at it too OR the motherfucker is alot older than we thought.

NOTE: This does not make Childe any less important. The motherfucker still has alot of connections to other unnatural shit, (ie. the 3 motif, the whale calling him, the abyss seeminly choosing him to fall, his highly likely reincarnations, weapons looking like the ones found in enkanomiya, the names his entire known family has)

[locuas642]

Romina did NOT Create the Scarlet Rot

In the Remembrance it says she took a "twisted divine element" which she weaved into the Scarlet Rot, but I feel this is reffering to the Scarlet Rot in it's current incarnation. as it currently exist in the world above. not the Scarlet Rot as a whole.

This is because the Lake of Rot, the place where the Outer God associated with the Scarlet Rot is sealed away is different from the other two places heavily involved with it. One of the key elements is the vegetation.

As in, both in Caelid and in Romina's Domain we see flowers and buds waiting to bloom. there is a weird twisted vegetation that is growing out of these places, while in the lake of rot, we see dead trees, only fungi capable of growing here.

Even in the Halightree, we see flowers surviving within the Scarlet Rot, something weird for something as destructive as it is. there is a weird association with Flora that is nowhere to be seen in the Lake of Rot.

In a similar note, the waters of the Scarlet Rot look different. the Lake of Rot is this Red-ish, Pinkish, black dotted sickly thing. while in Caelid, Romina's temple and the Halightree, we have a more intense "clean" shade of Red.

My theory is that, after the Outer God had been sealed, ROmina found a remnant of it (or It found Her), which she then began to nurture and change it into the Scarlet Rot as we see it today. A Different, distilled maybe more pervasive version of the Scarlet Rot, one that is actually capable of spreading a vegetation that helps it spread.

A Scarlet Rot that, if you forgive the pun, is capable of taking Root in the Lands Between.

ETA: Because someone complained, I want to point out YES THERE IS LIVING TREES UNDERGROUND

THE LAKE BEING UNDERGROUND DOESN'T NECESSARILY EXPLAIN THE LACK OF LIVING VEGETATION.

[firinnie]

Some Greek facts. Did you know that Odysseus was an older brother? Yes, he had a younger sister named Ctimene, there's nothing about her in Epic so most people probably don't know her because of that. But you know how that little plot, especially about her?

She married Eurylochus.

Yes, that guy who was Odysseus' best friend, opened the Wind Bag and was "chosen to be killed" by the hands of Zeus.

Soooo imagine how awkward it's going to be when Odysseus gets home, greets his wife, son, sister and then has to tell her why her husband died. Ouch.

[ilhamiman]

Please tell me I'm not the only one thinking this.

Ok, ok ok ok, Von Lycaon, I noticed he sure have many straps on him. I first thought it might be for the looks and accessories but after learning about his past, it got me thinking; what if these straps on aren't for decoration purpose but more like he restricting himself in punishing way? I mean think about, when he was younger, he did some bad shit in his life and after he lost his legs and right eye, I think he added those straps to restrained myself from being wild like he was before. I might be thinking too far but I can't help but feel he's somewhat punishing himself for being a criminal back in his days. What do you guys think? Leave some comments.

[bookishdaze]

Noa and Mae as Romeo and Juliet in the Next Planet of the Apes Movie?

Here's why a potential "love story" between Mae and Noa, whether explicit or simply implied, may not be such a terrible idea.

Why? Because Shakespeare told me so, that's why.

"When in doubt, it's from Shakespeare....or the Bible." At least according to a book I had to read for high school, lol.

The biblical references in Caesar's trilogy have been pointed out multiple times already, and these movies have also been described as Shakespearean tragedies. So I thought, 'ok, what kind of Shakespearean tragedy will we have this time around?'

I'm first gonna start off with Hamlet in the Caesar trilogy. I'm also gonna mention other popular movies that are based on Shakespeare's plays. Not necessarily because it's concrete proof that this is what will happen in future POTA movies. This is me simply picking up certain storytelling beats and patterns I've noticed in some of my favorite movies.

It's not 100% the same, but there are some similarities. Also, this isn't anything new. Many have pointed this out before, but I love talking about this stuff!

The Lion King, Black Panther, and Dawn of the Planet of the Apes are loosely based on Hamlet. A king or rightful heir is killed. Usually by an evil uncle, cousin, or family member. For some reason this always results in them falling off a very high cliff.

Everyone thinks they're dead, the evil relative takes power, and everything kinda sucks. There is not enough food in the Pride Lands under Scar's rule. Killmonger burns the heart-shaped herbs. Koba leads the apes to war against the humans.

The rightful ruler spends time in exile, recovering from their wounds and trauma. They might even get a visit or have a recollection of their dead father.

Then the rightful ruler comes back from the dead, challenges the usurper, and regains their rightful place upon the throne.

Now lets take a look at their sequels.

The Lion King 2 and Wakanda Forever share some similarities. They both follow another one of Shakespeare's popular plays, Romeo and Juliet.

Like the Montagues and Capulets, we have two rival kingdoms in both movies. We got the Pridelanders and the Outsiders. We also got the Wakandans and Talokanils.

The two heirs/rulers from both kingdoms meet. They hate and don't trust each other at first, but then they start to have compassion for the other. In Kiara and Kovu's case, they fall in love. Namor and Shuri don't fall in love, but after Namor shows her his underwater kingdom and what he has to protect, she softens and begins to understand him more. (They even got the whole Hades and Persephone thing going on, who are a couple in Greek mythology, by the way).

There are losses on both sides. Kovu's brother was killed while going after Simba. One of Namor's people was killed when Shuri was rescued by Nakia, and Shuri's mother, Queen Ramonda, died after Namor's attack on Wakanda. (Starts nervously eyeing Anaya here...)

These losses make things worse, by the way.

In the end, both pairs are able to bring the fighting between their people to a stop. The Outsiders are welcomed into Simba's pride. The Wakandans and Talokanils stop fighting after seeing their leaders return together.

In the end, they realize that they're the same. That they can't let hate and fear of the other side cloud their judgement.

Kiara tells her father, "A wise king once told me we are one....Look at them. They are us. What differences do you see?"

Shuri tells Namor while she spares his life, "Vengeance has consumed us. We cannot let it consume our people."

And I think this goes well with one of the core themes of these POTA movies. The apes are a mirror to humanity. We the audience are seeing us through them, and the characters in the movies themselves must come to the realization that they're the same.

Like when Caesar tells his son, "I always think ape better than human. I see now how much like them we are."

Maybe something similar like this will happen with Noa and Mae and whatever fight will happen between apes and humans. While I'm all for a good romance, it may end up being more like Namor and Shuri's case. There's something there. The tropes are present, but they don't fall in love. (At least not yet. Please Ryan Coogler, give me Nashuri endgame in Black Panther 3, hehe).

This is just a theory, by the way. This doesn't have to happen, but I just think it'd be neat. There would be differences though. What those differences would be, idk, but whatever happens in the next one, I can't wait!

"But but.... aren't you forgetting something?"

What's that?

"Don't they...ya know...both die at the end?"

Besides, they don't have to die. Things can be a little more hopeful for our two heroes 🙈