#MCU vs DCEU

[wetalkfilm]

Screen Clash DC &Marvel: Separated at Birth?

[malfiora]

rewatched Batman vs. Superman and im painfully reminded of how MCU fumbled the bag

the bag being sociopolitical commentary about whether the Avengers need government oversight. Civil War started out being about this and then very quickly veers away from any actual difficult conversation because of course Disney did. We could have had

an introduction of the Super Human Registration Act (SHRA) and a new body to enforce it (which could have paved the way to (re)introduce Sentinels and revealed the existence of mutants)

discourse on how people who can't blend in to society get ostracized while those who can pass are generally fine, and Tony above all has money and intelligence and has far less to lose by complying with the government

actual contrition from Tony, meaning he explicitly takes responsibility for Ultron and states why it was wrong

Steve having to reconcile with America having different values now than in his time (or he's just now seeing the truth of what America has always been – an imperial power always vying for the upper hand and unafraid to use any new weapon, including superheroes, at our disposal). This point goes double since, ya know, it's his movie

crazy how both films start out as commentary and then end up about some rich orphan's parents, but at least in BvS it makes sense

[bi-dykes]

Omg! It’s Lucas Lee, Ramona Flowers, and Envy Adams! 🤩

[jessebatson]

On paper, this may seem one-sided. The only female that regularly hangs with the Avengers ends up going against Joker's girlfriend? Well, when you compare the cinematic versions of these characters, it's a closer match than one may think.

Black Widow is ... Black Widow. Most people have seen her quick thinking, awesome athletics, advanced weaponry, and never-quit attitude. She's definitely a threat in any cinematic universe.

Meanwhile, Harley provides some comedic relief in the DCEU, but she also, especially after rewatching Birds of Prey, has a lot of skills. She's agile, smart, has an unruly edge to her, and is pretty tough. She, like the Widow, also thinks on her feet.

Hand to hand combat? Black Widow would probably win, though Harley would definitely land some shots. Weapons? Black Widow also wins, but, again, Harley throws Black Widow off her game with the bean bags full of glitter and wooden mallets. Street smarts? Eh. I'm no sure. Black Widow probably wins that, too, but not by much.

Overall, I guess we do have a winner, but it's a battle that would be very interesting with a lot of back and forth.

Winner: Black Widow

[figures4fun]

Red Capes

[wavy-arms]

Who's winning this fight?

Sinestro Corps Predator vs Nova Corps Blue Pikachu

[drbatsponge]

I don't think Marvel fans would've survived being DC fans back in 2016 because the cope over the Ant-Man Rotten Tomatoes score is giving me flashbacks.

[mdccanon]

When people suddenly have an opinion on legacy characters when they are women or people of color... What, you just now noticing...? Robin, Kid-Flash, Bucky, and Speedy have been around too long for you to JUST now notice...

Don't like Legacy Characters? Think they are stupid? Complaining that 55-year-old actors aren't playing these characters forever and their younger friends and family are picking up their themes?

Since you are an actual comic book fan and not just a know-nothing casual movie fan flooding into nerd spaces and give your uneducated opinions on an 85-year-old genre of storytelling, lets start talking about your revolutionary way to write comic book stories without legacy characters.

Pick a team/setting: Avengers, X-Men, X-Caliber, or X-Force, Justice League, Justice Society of America, Fantastic Four, The Sanctum Sanctorum, Wakanda, Latveria, Asgard, Atlantis, Krypton, Young Justice, Teen Titans, Birds of Prey, The Outsiders, the League of Shadows, Suicide Squad, Shazam, Captain Marvel, Nova Corps, the Kree Empire, Earth-2, World War 2 Era, before or after the Death of Superman, or before or after Crisis on Infinite Earths.

We can frame this entirely around the characters and story setting you know best. Let's talk about how to remove legacy characters from franchises entirely built on legacy characters. :)

(Just because a legacy character exists DOESN'T mean their writing is flawless and their story can't be poorly executed. But when people act dumb and talk like Captain Carter or The Mighty Thor is the first time a girlfriend has been given powers, or Kate Bishop is the first time a hero has retired and passed their mantle, and say things like (copied quote) "Sidekicks are complimentary to the main character, not outright replacements. Do you really need a man to pave the way for your character's success or can you create your own success from original ideas?" I will talk to them about how they've obviously never actually read a sidekick's storyline. Rhetorically spouting bullshit with no real knowledge of comic book history just means you don't like comics, you just like comic book movies. Feel free to do that. But don't talk like you understand the genre. You just wanna see some cool explosions.)

[phoenixlionme]

Who Would Win? Battle 27

Steve Rogers aka Captain America, Tony Stark aka Iron Man, and Thor Odinson

vs

Clark Kent aka Superman, Bruce Wayne aka Batman, and Diana Prince aka Wonder Woman

[artbyblastweave]

aks game: the dceu / "snyderverse" movies

So, watching Batman Vs. Superman as a teenager, I didn't exactly feel like my time was wasted. (Rise of Skywalker is the only film I've ever seen in theaters where I felt like my time was being actively wasted.) But I do recall judging the movie pretty harshly on the grounds that it wasn't as good as the MCU. Ten years of additional context have led me to the conclusion that these are shitty, shitty grounds on which to dismiss a superhero movie, so I think sometime soon I'm going to have to revisit the film in order to separate what was actually wrong with it (such as their attempt to play catch-up in creating a shared universe) from what the significantly-more-MCU-friendly fandom spaces of 2015 decided was wrong with it. There are undoubtedly a number of good ideas floating around in that thing, chained down in the execution; in the abstract, for example, I am really, really compelled by the idea of Superman debuting after Batman is entering his veteran-vigilante, cynical-isolated-paranoiac-over-the-hill era, with Superman acting as the decision point for Batman's descent into even more brutal cynicism or a return to the ideals he was originally pursuing. It wasn't executed well but that idea is clearly present, and I think it's worth taking seriously. In general, I'm not as hostile to Snyder's films as many are, because I find his signature melodramatic excess to be genuinely charming- sometimes I find it effective for the reasons Snyder finds it effective, more often I find it effective in a so-bad-it's-good way. The Joss-Whedon cut of Justice League I saw on an airplane made me want to bash my head against a brick wall, but I genuinely thought the Four-hour Snyder cut was a decent use of my time, because of, and not in spite of, how gratuitous and self-indulgent it was- every bad idea present because someone sincerely thought it was a good idea, no homogenizing decisions-by-committee in sight.

[wetalkfilm]

Screen Clash DC &Marvel: Separated at Birth?

[malfiora]

my friends cracked it:

MCU: fun and accessible plots that anyone can get into, fun Easter eggs for comic nerds; shallow characters that feel interchangeable

DCEU: deep and sympathizable characters, amazing costume designs; clunky or complicated plots

[ordinaryschmuck]

If someone might wonder why it is anyone prefers the MCU to the DCEU....

DCEU Hero costumes...

Vs Marvel costumes....

...Go on.

[soyouareandrewdobson]

Dawn of Justice: A pointless comic to a rather pointless movie

I really don’t have much of an idea for an introduction here, so let me just hand you the comic and then explain why it is rather dumb.

The comic in question came out sometime in late 2015 or early 2016, certainly BEFORE the movie “Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice” had come out in March of 2016.

Now let me just say this: I am not a fan of that movie really. Frankly, Warner’s approach of creating a cinematic universe/franchise for DC akin to the MCU, has in my opinion always been a bit of a tonal trainwreck, starting with Man of Steel itself. Mind you, I have nothing against the actors involved in it, but I thought for a first “outing” for Superman it was a bit too heavy on the last act level of destruction and trying to emulate overall a tone more akin to “Batman Begins”. As for “Dawn of Justice”, I hated the way Lex Luthor was portrayed in it more like a knock off ginger version of Joker and it was silly in my opinion, how they already, in their second major outing for the DCEU, made a vs crossover movie with Batman and Superman, even though not really anything was much established of the cinematic world it was set in. To me it was already just in concept the equivalent of jumping from “Iron Man” in 2008, to “Age of Ultron” without the movies inbetween narratively.

That said, I do not hate the movie and if you find enjoyment in it, fine with me. I am at best indifferent, at worst I think we should look at it, see what worked and what didn’t, and learn from it for a future take on the idea, once the superhero boom and fatigue has ceased.

Somehow, that makes me however already more stable in mind than others, who hate the movie with a passion that’s  ridiculous. At least moviebob should reevaluate his life, when he thinks his greatest achievement (or one of them) is to talk for over 4 hours how much the movie sucks, believing by doing so he has shown Warner Bros how much of a smarty pants he is. Even though by doing so, he spend more time talking about it than the movie runs, even in the director's cut.

As for this comic… it is to me just reactional garbage like a lot of stuff Dobson did once he heard something “awful” in regard of entertainment he didn’t even care much for. Like how he thought the Mario movie will be a disaster, cause Illumination was animating it

Now to be fair, he wasn’t entirely wrong to react worried, as the movie was not that good. However, his very first reaction to the trailer alone (which he posted on twitter) is telling you already more about how he really feels and is just utterly dismissive of it, without outright saying it.

Yeah Dobson, Dark Knight Returns is not necessarily my favorite Batman comic of all time either, but even with Miller turning out not quite right in the last 15+ years, you have no right to really treat it like it has no value at all in the field of comics, as even your beloved Batman: The Animated Series took in part inspiration from it.

It is however his second tweet I could find about it, that kinda makes me chuckle

After all, it is essentially the very same thing/opinion he lets say the older man in the picture state about Superman and Batman, and how preposterous the idea of them fighting against each other would be, seeing how they are SUPERFRIENDS.

Which brings me back to the comic in itself and me actually wanting to explain, why it is kinda dumb in proper detail.

First, as stated before, it came out way before the movie even got released. So aside of some poster design that he could copy paste into it and some trailer material he had seen to make up his mind, Dobson had nothing to judge the product by. And I genuinely doubt he ever even bothered to look into it and judge it then based on the actual merit of quality or lack thereof. As long as he could rage about Zack Snyder and Snyderbros being neo nazis or whatever years later, why bother as a cartoonist and critic of nerd culture, to actually talk about a superhero movie. After all, he also never played a Metal Gear game, and that makes him still an expert on Kojima.

Second, the “generational gap” Dobson tries to show here is ridiculous. The “young” comic book fan -likely to be in his twenties, even though he looks older- actually being hyped for it, seemingly because he craves the violence of such a movie. As indicated by making a claw with his hand, having a facial expression that indicates less geek out and more “bloodthirst” as well as how he emphasizes the “Dawn of Justice” in a format that is normally saved for slasher movie titles like “Friday the 13: The Bloodbath at Menarche Lake”.

For fucks sake, Dobson comes off like some old geezer shouting at the clouds how the “younger” generation is craving for blood instead of a decent plot, even though many people younger than him at the time (quick reminder: Dobson was only around 33 to 34 years old when that comic came out) also had a problem with how that movie looked as well as its tone.

Also, the second person who is actually opposed of the idea of them fighting/ is confused about it, trying to portray the other age group, supposedly opposed to the concept of the movie? That character looks like he is in his late 50s. And I can tell you of actual experience, not many people in that age group would even care for superhero movies anyway. They have other things to worry about, like actually being responsible adults and getting their kids through college.

Okay, I apologize if that was rather insulting to some, but let us be real here: Most people at that age are not necessarily into comics anymore as an age group of 20-30 somethings in the 2010s would be And those that still are, would likely not act this confused at the idea, because with all the stuff that has been going on in DC comics within the last 30-40 years, this would likely just make them roll their eyes and think “aww shit, we go the vs route first” or be slightly intrigued if they can pull it off or not. After all, Superman and Batman/ Clark and Bruce may be friends, but that hasn't stopped people from writing stories where the two had to fight against each other. Just ask the people familiar with Injustice.

Really, the only reason we have that early retirement citizen look at the poster in confusion, is because Dobson needed someone to represent him and his opinion. And to be honest, the fact that Dobson, someone in his late 30s at this point identifies more with someone 15+ years his senior, is kinda weird. Like, is Dobson that old fashioned? Or did the years already have a bad effect at his looks and in real life he looked more to that, then he would ever admit?

Anyway, it just stinks of creating some sort of schism between generations, by insinuating that the younger generation is essentially bloodthirsty, while an older one would love something more positive. Which frankly, is dumb to assume, as age does not necessarily account for taste in some cases.

Honestly though, the funniest aspect of the comic for me however, is the way it is structured. Cause it reminds me of that pile of trash

And yeah, I know that Stan Kelly is meant to be a joke by the Onion about political comic artists in newspapers, but I honestly think those joke comics are to a degree so accurate to the mindset of some people on either side of the political spectrum, it hurts. And in regard of Dobson… well, Kelly is a joke. Dobson is the real deal.

Finally, like with many of his comics, Dobson likes to complain, but he does not really “offer” an alternative. Neither did he in comments or on twitter. And what alternative am I talking about?

Well, simple: If he thinks Dawn of Justice will suck cause he wants something more child friendly and comic like…

Why doesn’t he just recommend for others the animated movie “The Batman/Superman Movie: Worlds Finest” from 1997, based on the Superman and the Batman Animated Series of the 90s, on which later the JLA cartoon based its design and style?

Oh right! Because a Dobson only wants to complain but never help improve the status quo

[jessebatson]

OK, Batman is usually on top of things, always with a back-up plan, a utility belt full of gadgets, and his extensive fighting skills. Black Widow, however, particularly the MCU version, seems quite capable against Batfleck.

Batman typically doesn’t kill, but this Batman is different, at least when he was enraged by Superman. Black Widow? Well, we know there’s red in her ledger.

In terms of weapons and tech, it may be an even playing field. Black Widow has S.H.I.E.L.D. tech that includes blunt weapons, electric shocks, and projectiles. This Batman hasn’t shown off his weaponry as much, but we know that Bruce Wayne money buys a lot. He did come up with armor and weapons that put down Superman, at least momentarily.

Batman in the DCEU vs Black Widow from the MCU? Honestly, I’m kind of shocked, but I’m going with Marvel only because she has had more screen time. We’ve seen a little bit more of her fighting a variety of people, from Ultron’s robots to Hawkeye to aliens from space.

Winner: Black Widow

Is Black Widow your pick, too?