#Ludanis

[redmoonruidus]

There’s a post about Ludanis being arrogant and audacious in thinking Laerynn, the great architect arcane, would be willing to help him, and they’re right she would be far too busy. But what really needs to be noted is that in Avalir at a a ball full of intelligent wizards, none of them knew what Laerynn did or how important/intelligent she was, but somehow a wizard from another city picked her out instead of any of the 9 leaders of Avalir as competent enough to help. I wonder if this implies an interaction between the two characters.

[the-big-nope]

This all really helps put into perspective even more than ever how much of a DUMBASS Ludinus is. He’s watching this too, watching these unfathomably powerful beings curbstomp Aeor in a matter of minutes. And he wants to bust out the thing that EATS THOSE??!

[littlepinksapphire]

Brennan said that he wanted the battle leading to the fall of Aeor to feel like the horrors of a power fantasy. How one gesture from a god’s hands can decimate hundreds. Laura said that while exciting at first, the immense power she wielded as the Raven Queen felt unfair. Ashley hated doing everything she did, she said so the whole time constantly.

It doesn’t matter how good anyone’s intentions are. It doesn’t matter if the Wildmother or the Everlight love mortals unconditionally. Trist had to betray Cassida even though she hated it. When you have that kind of power people get caught in the crossfires. Ashton is right to question not their seat on the throne, not who should have the throne, but the throne itself.

[dracoroma]

Something I found interesting in how they fleshed out Ripley in season 3 of LoVM is that they kinda made her a mini version of Ludanis, one Ludanis caused.

To Ripley, the Cerberus Assembly are what the gods are to Ludanis. They destroyed her home and killed everyone she loved

To Ripley, Orthat and Percy's guns are predathos, an entity with its own motives and power that will even the scales but cause untold destruction.

And I think this helps to show why Ludanis isn't the unsung hero. How can we possibly forgive him when we all agree that Ripley has been nothing but flat out wrong.

And she was just an amoral arms manufacturer. Ludanis is a straight-up terrorist

[underwaterbanshee]

This private reunion of Bells Hells is such a fantastic example of no one doing anything wrong yet people are still hurt and jealous and ready to self-flagellate because you can feel guilty about not having as hard of a time as someone you love.

And yet, that guilt does nothing to comfort those still experiencing trauma.

They had very different adventures and very different experiences with the gods--just like the world they are trying to save. How wonderful it is that they will have a variety of diverse experience to bring to their solution.

Because, whether or not you agree with how important the gods are, Ludanis is a fuck boy that needs his ass beat for how many people he’s hurt--the Laudnas, the Deannas, and the Bor’Dors.

[lildark1]

Did Ludanis grow up in Hawk's Hill? I thought he was specifically from Aeor, but I guess not.

[bloodyshadow1]

it’s late so I don’t have the time or energy to elaborate on this but Ludanis is a dumb bitch with a bad plan. 

further more, even if it was a good plan, which it’s not, you don’t get to destroy the world for imagined slights against you in your life

[dragonfairies]

Here's the thing. Ludinus is a hypocrite. At this point he knows he a hypocrite. It's the reason he refused to engage Chetney about Molaesmyr.

Here's the thing, we need to remove "are the Gods good or bad?" Question from the table when talking about Ludinus. We have two different issues that are only connected because of his end point.

So what does Ludinus want? He wants to set Predathos free to kill the gods. How is he getting to that end goal? He's murdered hundreds, if not thousands, of fey to extend his life, he destroyed an entire city, he wrecked thousands of acres of land surrounding that city, the corruption of which is still spreading hundreds of years later, he had an anti revivify poison created, tested, and then used to kill, more than likely, more than just the Ashari around Keyleth. This is not a man you work with. Ludinus Da'leth is a problem that's needed delt with for centuries.

Deal with Ludanis, circle back to restructuring the faith of Exandria after.

Tl;Dr the ends do not justify the means. Ludinus Da'leth does not care about sentient life. He cares only about his trauma.

[zelreedsandwrites]

All of y’all are wrong. Wulf may be a himbo but nobody can possibly be dumber than Ludanis “this god eater definitely won’t kill me im better than all the archmages before! The nein won’t also hear about this and whoop my ass like they did trent! This cannot possibly go wrong and I’m Fucking Winning!” Da’Leth. This man is fucking with an evil death crystal but on a cosmic scale.

[lonely-business]

okay, just thinking some thoughts, but releasing predathos would destroy ruidis, right? like, the gods literally pulled a chunk of exandria into the sky and used it to help disguise the divine gate that they sealed predathos behind. so, if predathos is released it would destroy ruidis, and every single thing that resides on it. if ludanis is able to amass his ruidis bred and born elite force onto exandria, every average ruidian is gonna be destroyed. the children and noncombatants and just dang regular folk *boom* gone. I don't think anyone is thinking of them enough when they talk about releasing predathos. The Arch-heart doesn't seem to care about them. but i think the gang should be better than that. put aside the gods for the moment, don't these people, these people who have never been able to make their own choice and dream of strawberries and oceans get to live?

[punkrockgenasiashton]

"Every person that I'm peeling off the board right now was one of the brightest mortal wizards who ever lived."

Listen. Me as a person still thinks Ludanis is full of shit. And understands why the Gods are doing what they're doing. BUT with that said, that quote, if I was one of my wizard characters within Exandria, ACTUALLY SEEING THIS...man. I would have a new hatred and disillusionment with the Gods.

[redmoonruidus]

Ludanis prepping the spell weird is the biggest plot hole in the entirety of CR

[elvengoblin]

Ludanis is just like showing bell hells a video of a family fighting at Thanksgiving and being like " look at how toxic they are they are such a bad family" what you don't see the happy and healthy intentions the rest of the year.

[cringefaecompilation]

funniest ludinus misspellings i have seen

ludinnis

ludanis

loodinus

lodenis

lodins

lewdinis

leudeniss

lutinnus

[dracoroma]

Honestly, what I think is the biggest problem in the Bell's Hells campaign is the half-baked nuance. The campaign is asking us how we feel about the gods, yet only presenting their worst sides. And, unlike a story about nuance and questions should do, we're not being told in the story why we should care about the gods. That entire half of the question is held up entirely by Pike, Vax, Fjord and Caduceus, and even then, 75% of that is Caduceus and Vax alone.

Nuance is created when both sides are neither fully right or wrong. But that's not what we're being given. We're not given a reason to care about the gods in the campaign on its own merits. All we're given (with the exception of downfall) is the many reasons why we shouldn't care about the gods, which lends to the narrative supporting the arguments of the blatant terrorist Lidanis Daleth at every turn.

I think back to Abreia saying that Diana was meant to add an interesting perspective, a cleric who is unsure herself about the gods. Our recent talk with Corellon is meant to make things interesting, as they have some interesting opinions. But these aren't interesting if the backbone of the question isn't backed up properly.

This, in the end, isn't nuance in the slightest. It's the equivalent of the punk attitude of "question authority" (hey, look at that, something Ashton is doing). This attitude conflates questioning with contrarianism. You're choosing not to believe that "the man" is doing anything good, so obviously, everything "they" do is bad. And this is in direct vontrast with what I believe is the core of nuance: Chesterton's Fence. The philosophy that we should understand why before tearing the theoretical fence down.

I believe that Matt is trying to tell a nuanced narrative. The problem has been assuming that pro-god is the default. The problem has been the constant lore drops doing nothing but supporting Ludanis, and even some of the party members agreeing with him to the point of starting arguments.

We need a strong reason in the campaign to care about the gods because otherwise, we're going to be trapped in this mire forever. Trapped with Ashton and Dorian devaluing people's beneficial experiences because of their personal vendettas. Trapped with the issue only growing more and more complicated. And trapped with the community arguing about this

[underwaterbanshee]

So...just a few hours away from Downfall and...well...okay:

Two things can be true:

Aeor, as a sovereign nation, during Calamity, tasked with protecting its people, has the right to stop divinity, prime and betrayer, from murdering its people by any means possible, including maiming or harming the gods harming them

AND

Ludanis Fucking Daleath is a bad person whose goal of releasing Predathos to kill the gods will potentially hurt millions, if not billions of mortals just like the gods' war did during Calamity, and he must be stopped.

I am so fucking excited for Downfall but I don't think any information inside that little hologram is going to tell me that Ludanis' goals to free Predathos won't hurt mortals.

That's not the twist.

I don't care about the gods at all. I just think they are load bearing to the world building at this point and we've seen the already deadly repercussions of messing with divine magic after establishment of the bloody bridge during the Applebees Soulcycle.

I do wish a discussion about a political or peace treaty could be brought through the back door to the Rebellion instead of an army was had. Getting rid of Ludanis and the Ruby Vanguard would allow everything to deescalate and real communication between two very different peoples to happen.

But you know, politics in Actual Play DnD isn't fun or sexy, (no shade, it is why it was narrated over single episodes and the epilogue in C2), so Boom, Crash, right?