dracoroma

[dracoroma]

I think one of the big problems as a whole for Exandria is that

Objectively speaking, the creation myth is so sketchy

But we've had two campaigns in this world, well over 200 episodes, that don't try to address this at all.

And when we finally get it addressed, it's by the dictator turned terrorist Ludanis D'aleth, who no one takes as actually good intentioned

So when we do touch on it, it ends up being hollow

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Velvet Crowe is my favorite character in fiction.

To the point that the only thing stopping me from cosplaying her is that I'm a guy.

From her story, to her characterization, to Christina Vee's utterly fantastic performance bringing it all to life.

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I just realized something that hits a bit too hard, in a way I don'tthink was intended.

So, Matt has placed a huge effort on making sure the players know that exandria will keep on spinning without the gods. There's still sources of healing magic. There's still forces keeping demons at bay. The gods leaving will not be the apocalypse.

But, this does not address how it affects people on an individual level. What will life be like for Fjord and Pike and Yasha, people who find so much meaning in their relationships with their deities.

And where this hits too hard is that this mirrors some real-life antitheist rhetoric. "There are other, better sources of all the positive societal aspects of religion", and meanwhile the small, personal benefits are dismissed.

It calls back to Ashton's condtant dismissal of FCG's faith, trying to convert them back to atheism. It calls back to the one kid from heathdell who was given the ultimatum: convert back or be exiled.

[dracoroma]

I was thinking about Critical Role last night, I have been thinking about it a lot recently as I have been finally working my way through the Aeor arc of Campaign 2, and specifically about Campaign 3.

I fell off of Campaign 3 a couple times and dove back in trying to catch up before finally just saying Maybe Another Time/Maybe After Its Over around the time of them finding the Fire Titan Shard, because tbh, I got bored of the constant circular debate about defending/killing the gods, but I still think aobut it a lot because I liked the narrative Matt had built, love Exandria, and even liked Bells Hells as characters.

The reason I dont think it really clicked for me, and seemingly others, is I dont think Bells Hells is the right party for this story, and that it wouldve worked better with either all different characters, or as a shorter Epic Tier arc for Vox Machina or The Mighty Nein. Because, like, Bells Hells, at the start of their campaign is probably the party least connected to the Gods, either in a positive or negative light, especially compared to late game Vox Machina or Basically Any Point Mighty Nein.

Vox Machina had:

Grog: No connection to the Gods at the beginning of the campaign, finds some religious awakening with the Stormlord.

Keyleth: Strongly anti-organized religion at the beginning of the campaign, comes to resent the Matron of Ravens because of everything that happened with Vax.

Percy: Has a strong distaste for magic in any form, either of the arcane OR Divine persuasion, sees it as a shortcut that cheapens human ingenuity, despite that ruler of a city watched over by the Dawn Father with a respect for the Dawnfather.

Pike: Devotee of the Everlight, occasionally struggles with her devotion but one of the Everlights most ardent followers.

Scanlan: No strong connection to the Gods for most of the campaign, is smiled on by The Knowing Mistress during the Vecna arc.

Vax: His struggles with his sense of purpose push him towards religion early in the campaign and his love for his sister thrusts him into the service of the Matron of Ravens, eventually becoming her Paladin and Champion.

Vex: Defends the Dawnfathers city, but like Keyleth has a strong resentment towards the Matron for in their eyes Taking Vax.

The Mighty Nien had:

Caducius: Ardent follower of the Wildmother, helps guide Fjord towards enlightement in the Wildmothers eyes.

Caleb: After he broke mentally was broughtback to clarity by a follower of the Arch Heart.

Beau: Monk of the Cobalt Soul, and therefore a follower of The Knowing Mistress, while not overtly religious she has no problem presenting herself as a follower of the Mistress.

Fjord: Warlock of a creation of the Betrayer God Zehir who eventually finds redemption in the light of The Wildmother.

Jester: Cleric devouted to a Demi-God/Arch Fey who has a Less Than Great reputation with the Pantheon.

Nott/Veth: afaik basically no connection to the gods.

Yasha: Follower and adherent of The Stormlord, who lifted her from the brink of death and despair but challenges her in extreme and difficult ways.

I dont know, I just feel like either of those groups of characters would have had a more tangible connection to a plot related to killing the gods than a group consisting of two people who felt their prayers went unanswered, two people with no real care or connection to the gods, a cleric looking for a god, and a guy who is kinda connected to the Wildmother.

And, again, I dont think Bells Hells are a BAD adventuring party, I just think their adventuring and story shouldve maybe touched on the source of Imogens powers, but also spent serious time exploring the rest of the new characters backstories, and found another Main Plot that wasnt this.

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I think that discussions of TTRPGs would be much more productive if the advocates of moving from D&D could separate out the ideas of "WoTC is part of the massive Hasbro conglomerate which engages in the shady capitalist practices massive conglomerates do"; "D&D is not suited for every single type of story or gameplay style"; and "here's how to pick a different TTRPG that suits you needs" because as I've said many a time like 99% of them are just trying to sell you on their favorite game, which might be out of print, prohibitively expensive, something no one around you is interested in playing, or is just as bad if not worse a fit for what you want to do as D&D.

I also think said conversations would be more productive if acknowledging many people came into TTRPGs via Actual Play but would be willing to branch out if you weren't the world's most condescending dickhead towards them*; if people considered the hard truth that if you're fluent in D&D and own the materials and have a group already the pitch for Pathfinder specifically actually becomes much harder, not easier; and, as always, if people tailored their recommendations. I agree that heists or space operas or low-combat social games don't play well in D&D; they also don't play well necessarily in your favorite game that you recommend for everything that isn't magically better or more versatile just because it's from a smaller company.

Anyway the point is if you just want to whine about D&D being a dominant force be my guest but you will probably lose all but the most impressionable/desperate for the validation of strangers portion of your D&D-playing audience. If you're actually interested in changing minds and not jacking off to how much cooler and better you are be prepared to ask or answer these questions:

Is D&D genuinely a bad fit for what they want to do, or are you just an intrusive hater?

What is the person you're trying to convert interested in doing at the table? This is is a complex question that covers genre and tone; session-to-session gameplay such as combat vs. RP balance but also (for example) granularity of rules; and overall scope of the game (eg: is this something that you can play a long-term campaign in with character progression? Or is it fairly static and intended to be a few sessions at most?)

What games are accessible to them? This means within their budget (unless you advocate for pirating from small indies, which will not really help with the whole WoTC dominance situation); within what they and their table have time to learn (or, if they are looking to get into games in the first place, what they might be able to find a group for); and again, I can't believe I have to say this but I really do because I've seen it multiple times: whether the game is in print.

Have you considered gently directing them to their friendly local gaming store with answers to the second and third questions above and unleashing them upon a person who knows the gaming scene in their area and (while I've dealt with a Comic Shop Guy or two in my time) is less likely to call them a dumb bitch to their face if the answer ends up being "I'll stick with D&D"? Again, is this about them having a good time? Or is this about you?

*the best way to describe this, since I've been talking a lot about people attempting to claim the status of the systemically oppressed, is that a lot of non-D&D/non-AP fans of TTRPGs on Tumblr act like they are an oppressed class and it's like Kevin, you are a white sysadmin Monte Hall Games fanboy, you are not oppressed by the girlies making Keyleth-inspired D&D characters. You are not part of the more popular fandom and indeed dislike it; this does not make you of a lower class.

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I think the two biggest problems with media literacy nowadays are

1) Nuance is dead on the internet. Things are not allowed to be complex

2) People are expecting works to conform to their expectations instead of meeting the work where it is. This does not mean you can not critique a work on being unsuccessful where it wants to be, but there is a line between what the creators wanted to do and what you wanted out of it

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The great part about doing research for a fantasy novel is that you learn so many interesting things that don't get represented. For example, did you know that Medieval, and even pre-christian Ireland had a super intricate legal system? That in Rome the priests were elected, and were mostly responsible for performing rituals and setting Holidays?

The frustrating part is that it can be very hard, especially depending on where you live, to find any good sources. I need to research Polland and Russia in the 1470s for my book, and am getting nothing. And even less for Bughanda and the Sakha people (if anyone has any good sources for those, please shoot them my way

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I'd love to be able to just let things go.

Are you kidding me? Do you think I like reliving all the times other people have made me feel like all I can ever do is screw everything up? Like I don't matter?

No, I don't. Every single one of those memories is a poison.

Living life as an autistic person is spending your whole life being help up to impossible to reach standards, being expected to be perfect when no one else holds themselves to those same standards

And then when you inevitably break, it's being told by those same people that all of it was something you made up in your head and they never said that.

All the while, no one ever considers meeting or even figuring out your needs. They're far to busy expecting you to be perfect.

[dracoroma]

Living life as an autistic person is spending your whole life being help up to impossible to reach standards, being expected to be perfect when no one else holds themselves to those same standards

And then when you inevitably break, it's being told by those same people that all of it was something you made up in your head and they never said that.

All the while, no one ever considers meeting or even figuring out your needs. They're far to busy expecting you to be perfect.

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[dracoroma]

One thing that needs to be adressed in the analysis of the theme of the Bell's Hells campaign is: what has the Worldbuilding set up.

Stories that feature god as the antagonist usually have it set up from the concept, to the Worldbuilding, to the execution that this is the theme they want to tackle. This is Persona 5, Tales of Symphonia, and Xenoblade Chonicles. These stories start from a theme, build their stories around that theme, and build and antagonist and world to fit that story.

The counterpoint for Exandria is that we have not seen any hint of anti colonial themes in the world until unrepentant terrorist Ludanis D'aleth started preaching it.

Now, to address the schism. The truth of the mstter is, this is a motif in official d&d lore. Rolling with difficulty, another actual play that's set in the planescape of the Forgotten Realms, features a war between the gods and the primordials. This theme comes from existing myths, but they’re all more complex than judt colonialism.

The irish book of invasions is clearly a mythologization of the migration to the island. While the norse Vulspa starts with the death of Ymir, it is unclear how much he represents some sort of outsider or native population. The greek theogony is solely a deal of sucession, from father to son. And Aztec ajd mesopotamian mythology both feature a reptilian primordial antagonist, not a humanoid one.

So, we've established why Matt has the schism in the Worldbuilding, but we also need to talk about the schism itself. Because the Titans worked with the gods to seal predathos, and the gods were refugees. In fact, as far as we know, the titans only started becoming antagonistic once mortals were given magic, which doesn't line up with a story about colonization. And the schism fully started when Corellon, in their infinite (sarcastic) wisdom decided to give mortals MORE magic.

In this regard, the wchism has much more in common with the Godzilla side in Godzilla vs Kong. Where the mortals have this fancy new thing that's bothering the titans (which, are also what the monsters in the monsterverse are called), the titans want them to cut it out, and then the tech gets worse prompting even more aggressive action. In GVK, it was mechagodzilla, in Exandria, it was arcane magic.

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The core problem of Campaign 3's god debate is that the only real support offered by the anti-god side is "some people are mad at the gods" and no one -- in-universe or out -- seems to realize that the mere existence of people who dislike the gods isn't sufficient to make "should the gods stay or go?" into a hyper-complex morally grey debate, any more than the mere existence of global warming denialists is sufficient to make the factual reality of climate change into a hyper-complex scientific debate. "People who are mad at the gods exist, therefore the current system is broken somehow" is the mentality of people-pleasing: if someone is mad at you, it proves that you're a bad person who did something to make them mad, and you are now morally obligated to internalize everything they say about you and devote all your energy to appeasing them.

I am, personally, of the opinion that it is vitally important for people in positions of power to maintain a healthy awareness of their own fallibility and cultivate lines of feedback from lower down in the chain the way software developers provide bug report forms; however, the reality I encountered when I accepted a forum moderation position years ago is that, if you're an Authority Figure™ of any stripe, for every person with a good-faith criticism of a poor ruling you made while overtired or an outdated policy that needs to be revised, there are a dozen who shake their fists at you because they want someone to be mad at. And when you look at the actual substance of the complaints being made (nearly all of which display a fundamental refusal to grapple with the scale the gods operate on and how that affects their decision-making) and ask "what, if anything, could/should the gods have done differently?" and "is getting rid of the gods actually a viable solution to this problem?", they're all firmly in that latter category.

To go down the list:

Vecna: If we're treating "people who are mad at the gods" as a Marginalized Group™ whose grievances are Good Points™ and Worth Considering™ simply because they are grievances with The People in Power™, then Vecna is part of said Marginalized Group™, seeing as he holds a massive grudge against the gods who helped banish him beyond the Divine Gate and per the campaign books his ultimate goal is to eliminate the worship of all deities other than himself. One can only imagine how hard he's kicking himself for failing to find out about Predathos before his own ascension.

Ludinus: His parents will still be dead whether he succeeds or fails, and preventing the same thing from happening to others is what the Divine Gate is for. Killing the gods would not only not prevent similar tragedies, it would, at least in the short term, actively make things worse: assuming Tharizdun doesn't just eat everything, how does he expect Lesser Idols like Uk'otoa to react to a glorious new age where there are no gods to keep them in check and millions of newly deity-less clerics are stuck watching people die whom they could have saved if they still had their spells? Moreover, what happens when people discontented with his glorious new era swear vengeance on those they blame for taking their gods from them, as Ludinus swore vengeance on those he blames for his parents' deaths, or start idealizing the lost age of the gods and looking for ways to somehow bring them back, as Ashton does with the Titans? Does the perspective of people who like the gods then become Worth Considering™, if they've gone from being Privileged™ to being a Marginalized Group™ who have been collectively traumatized by the loss of something precious to them?

Aeor: One of the major takeaways from Downfall was that Aeor was extremely decadent, corrupt, stratified, and generally dystopian at its height. Their main reason for wanting the gods dead seems to be not liking the existence of anything more powerful than them, and anyone arguing that the gods are Too Powerful To Exist needs to explain why the tiny cabal of mages at the tippy-top of Aeor's societal pyramid, wielding power that 99.9% of Exandrians will never have access to, were not themselves Too Powerful To Exist, especially given their evident imperialist ambitions.

Dorian: I won't downplay the genuine grievance there, but a. Opal was victimized by one of the Betrayer Gods, and what to do about them is a question that Vespin Chloras and Cassida Previn, for all their hubris, approached with considerably more nuance, and b. per the post linked in the previous bullet point, if your ultimate goal is to prevent all ill-advised deals with powerful entities and the unpleasant consequences thereof, where exactly do you stop?

Tuldus and Hearthdell: Plenty of irreligious people across Exandria are living their best lives unmolested, so the whole "you must be religious OR ELSE" isn't something the gods themselves are demanding in a systemic way, and getting rid of them wouldn't prevent all oppression any more than it would prevent all cataclysms and mass deaths. (It might not even stop the oppression committed by those specific religious people; per 'personality predates ideology', the ones who are in it to bully others and feel righteous about it will simply look for a different excuse to do so if their current one is taken from them.) There's a genuine debate to be had about how much responsibility the gods bear for their followers' actions and one could, more reasonably, accuse them of having become too lax and needing to be more stringent about telling their priests to cut that kind of shit out (though that in turn opens the question of how much they can micromanage their followers' behavior before it becomes genuinely smothering and oppressive), but it runs counter to the "the gods have too much control" narrative the Vanguard is pushing.

Liliana: Every parroted accusation she levies at the Exandria's pantheon is something Predathos and its worshippers are far, FAR more guilty of, but Predathos doesn't present itself as a caring, benevolent entity in the same way the Prime Deities do, and she expects us to believe that it admitting that it's bad somehow makes it good. (There's a Slacktivist quote that I think sums up the underlying logic here: "Once you've decided that the Most Important Thing is to avoid the wolf in sheep's clothing, your safest course of action is to embrace the wolf in wolf's clothing.")

Ashton: Essentially blames the gods for refusing to micromanage reality on their behalf and, in focusing so much on his own pain, hasn't stopped to ask what the world would look like if the gods actually felt obligated to micromanage reality on behalf of everyone who petitioned them that way, not just him personally. My dad is an agnostic and specifically doesn't believe in a god who answers prayer because what's a god to do when there's a baseball game and both teams have fans praying for their victory (or when there's a war and both armies include adherents of a given faith)?

Bor'dor: It's one thing to say that the gods have certain obligations to their followers and quite another to say that that the gods are supposed to keep their followers swaddled in bubble wrap 24/7 and prevent them from experiencing any consequences for their own actions whatsoever, and arguing that the Wildmother should have somehow stopped Bor'dor's family's suicide charge from resulting in their deaths is the latter.

Vox Machina: Continue to hold a grudge against the Matron for taking Vax away and would like to believe her being gone would make him mortal again, but when you stop to think about Vax as a person with his own feelings and opinions about his relationship with the Matron, instead of as a passive object to be fought over, the "what if Predathos eats the Matron?" scenario looks a hell of a lot bleaker. There's also the question of whether or not Predathos would consider Vax himself edible; a mere celestial might be one of those half-crushed potato chip fragments at the bottom of the bag in comparison to a god, but when you've been trapped and starving for thousands of years...

Zathuda: Objects not to being told 'no' but to the existence of forces who could potentially tell him no, which to me reads as an asshole whining about how unfair and oppressive it is when people see his assholery and tell him to cut it the fuck out.

[dracoroma]

ppl seem to do this thing in fandoms where theyll take a character whos inherently kind and trusting of people and then they make the fanon version of them ignorant or innocent to certain things by default and i dont like it

[dracoroma]

Not to be a pretentious asshole but yes there is a problem with people no longer reading the classics. A lot of the YA literature romance novel crowd perpetuates the myth that the classics are inherently boring and stuffy and there’s nothing you can relate to or learn by reading them. And they’re not. These beautiful universal things we enjoy, comedy, romance, tragedy, family strife, they’re still so poignant centuries after they’re written.

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Ah yes

Because it's not like any stories have ever delved into the ethics of is immortality was only available to tbe rich and powerful.

It's not like we'd have the same problem of Jane Doe being sad over the fact that her spouse and children can't come back, but now King Dwendal and his line, or even Gilmore and his husband, get to live forever instead. The rich get all the luxury of eternity, while the poor fight and die over the scraps

In one game I ran, a hag ordered an NPC she made a deal with to fight the party until either they died, or he did. Afterwards, the party tried to bring him to a cleric to get him revived. And I asked them the same question the cleric would

"Why this person and not the thousands of others who die every day?"

Without even getting into philosophical discussions on immortality, decay, the natural order, all of that, we have to ask the question of how can anyone make an objective choice over who gets revived or not.

And the most ethical answer is that death be left sacred

New weirdest take I've seen regarding the Matron is that it's unreasonable for her to have as much say as she does on matters of life, death, and resurrection, and who is she to tell Vax that he can't stay if he wants to? And it's like, well, for one:

For two, she's Vax's BOSS. He offered his soul to her (and she chose to interpret "take me instead, you raven bitch" in a way that was pretty damn generous). She is entirely within her rights as his divine patron to make certain demands or place certain restrictions on him! If you don't want a higher power telling you what you can or can't do, you shouldn't go around offering your soul to them!

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SO MUCH THIS!!!!

I think shipping is all well and fun when people treat it as either their own headcannons, or as fun, hypothetical thought experiments. But when it turns into "these characters are obviously so deeply in love", it becomes incredibly obnoxious.

And I think the cause of this and why it's a problem come from the same place. Because our culture has told us that the relationships that really matter are romantic and familial, that platonic relationships are less valuable.

This can also continue other trends, specifically in the case of friendships between men. Because as someone who has been male my whole life, boys and men are not encouraged to have deep, meaningful, intimate friendships, with anyone, because a relationship that deep is only reserved for romantic partners. And this may be part of why many men are emotionally stunted.

Friendships can be incredibly powerful, and we need to let them be without constantly jumping to the conclusion that it's secretly romantic.

‘there’s no platonic explanation for this’

buddy you wouldn’t believe what kind of platonic explanations im capable of

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"their hubris" IM SORRY THEIR HUBRIS???? THEIR HUBRIS???????? BESTIE I LOVE YOU BUT YOU PULLED THE LITERAL DEVIL INTO YOUR REALM THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN THEIR HUBRIS!!!!! YOUR HUBRIS !!!!!!!