#media discussion

[descendant-of-truth]

Shipping is fun and all but I swear every single time someone makes a comment, whether as a joke or in a legitimate analysis, about there being "no other explanation" for a pair's interactions, I lose just a bit more of my sanity

Like, no, you guys don't get it. Romance is not about the Amount of devotion, it's about the COLOR. the FLAVOR of it all. a character can be just as devoted to their platonic friend as they are to their romantic partner, and they don't love either of them more, just differently.

But because the majority of people still have it stuck in their minds that romance exists on the highest tier of love, I'm stuck seeing endless takes that boil down to "these two care about each other too much for it to NOT be romantic" as if that's the core determining factor to how literally any of this works

In conclusion: stop telling me that I don't understand the story if I don't interpret the leads as romantic, I am TIRED

[imheretoreadafic]

Something that's super funny to me is when they need Robin to do something on his own for The Plot in a show, and so Batman is just a huge dick for no reason in one episode and then cool the next.

Like, in Growing Pains (Batman The Animated Series), Robins all like, "There was this girl my age, and she said someone was chasing her, and she was super scared but she ran off we need to find her!" And Batman's like, "She's gone now, it's not our problem. Let the police handle it." Like, bitch you actively MAKE it your problem every night??? Every other episode you're going outa your way to save kids, but fuck Annie I guess 💀

[tikiki05]

“you people cant handle complex/morally gray characters!!1! 🤓”

DUDE. WHAT IF I K*LLED YOU. IF A CHARACTER IS COMPLEX AND/OR MORALLY GREY, THEN WE’RE GONNA TALK ABOUT HOW THEIR ACTIONS ARE COMPLEX, AND MORALLY GREY, AND HOW THEY DID BAD THINGS. THAT DOESN’T MEAN WE CAN’T HANDLE THEM. ITS CALLED DISCUSSING AND ANALYZING MEDIA!!!!!!! YOURE THE ONES WHO CAN’T HANDLE THAT!!!!!!

[blackcat419]

This is a really great video that talks about something I’ve noticed for a bit.

Stories that are trying to be more feminists or more female focused often miss the mark because they’re not telling stories about the women but placing the woman as a narrator in a man’s story.

Stories set in historical settings seem to think they must make the woman someone who could survive in modern society instead of exploring how a woman lives in that society.

These stories do a disservice to the women of their stories because they fail to actually see the women as humans in their own right and instead as mouth pieces for a modern audience to comment on how shit the past was.

My favorite line from the video is “the women of myth are not the untold stories, the women who we only know existed because we know they died are the untold stories of the time”

This is why I think HotD fails its female characters. These aren’t women in a fantasy historical area, they are modern mouth pieces to be used as commentary (Rhaenys is a blaring example of this). They are not allowed to be humans in this world like their male counterparts, they have to be modern women who we see tell the story of the men around them.

@ambrosia-v-black

@cherrysoulth

[a-doubleh-x]

A discussion on the problematic elements of Dandadan

TW: Nudity, sexualization, SA

Greetings everyone! As most people on this platform are probably aware, episode 9 of Dandadan sparked a bit of debate within the fandom. It was little compared to the controversies behind episode 1, but some of the takes I saw parading this time around still shocked me. That's why I wanted to sort my thoughts and wait until everyone cooled their heads before joining the discussion.

I invite you to take a deep breath with me before continuing, should you want, as this has already turned into a heated topic for some people.

*Inhale* *Exhale*

Still with me? Good.

Let's start with the focus point of the debate. Does Dandadan sexualize teenagers? To determine that, let's observe the definiton of sexualization. According to wikipedia: "Sexualization is the emphasis of the sexual nature of a behavior or person. Sexualization is linked to sexual objectification, treating a person solely as an object of sexual desire."

So, following with this definition, sexualization is essentially focusing on the sexuality of a person. You with me so far? Therefore, one can say that any show or work of art that places a significant light on the sexual aspects of a person or group is liable to sexualizing, possibly objectifying that person or group.

Of course, like most things in society, this is highly contextual. Someone can find sexual appeal on a work that isn't intended to be sexy and someome can not find any appeal in a sexualized work of art. This may be due to either the individual's preferences, the authorial intent, the presentation of the art piece, etc.

I think this distinction is why Dandadan provides some ambiguity, as some people find sexualized aspects in this show while others don't. Let's take the infamous abduction scene for example.

What is the purpose of this scene? One can argue, for instance, the purpose is drama, as this is a dangerous situation where the protagonist is restrained in front of a threat. One can also argue the purpose is comedy, as this is an inherently ridiculous situation timed after hours upon hours of disbelief.

In my case, I, myself will argue that this scene is heavily, heavily sexualized. The context is pretty clear to me. This scene references a rape fantasy. The restrained victim, the assailant in a position of power, the forced nudity, everything about this scene is charged with fetishism.

Yes, a scene can have many interpretations and most of them can be valid. Some may be evident within the context and some may be buried in the subtext. But that doesn't mean one is more relevant than another.

I think it is frankly ridiculous that some people feel the necessity to defend scenes like these to death, focusing on of the aspects in order to downplay the other. And yes, while I do recognize that this scene can be read as a symbolic representation of Momo's spiritual repression, yadda, yadda, I think there is an obvious front stage visual that should take presedence.

I will take a precious moment to mention that everyone has the right to enjoy any media they want for any reason within the comofrt of their own home. No one has the need to argue for the virtue of the shows they enjoy, but I've seen people behemently trying to downplay the problematic aspects of this show, which is actually a huge breach of respect to anyone who is made uncomfortable by the light depictions of sexual assualt.

Going back to episode 9, some people have made the argument that because the characters aren't depicted in a sexual situation, no sexualization is taking place just because the characters are naked. The argument being that it's simply played for laughs and whatnot. And while I agree the situation itself isn't necessarily sexual (fighting an alien lock ness monster), it is still an obvious case of gratuitous nudity.

Whether you find nudity inherently sexual or not (that's a whole other discussion) in today's modern age, most people in fact do. Ask anyone on the street if they'll be embarrassed by getting naked and the answer will overwhelmingly be yes. And while fiction has the luxury of dealing with fictional characters, it doesn't mean the respect that is showed by showrunners to their characters musn't reflect the respect the respect people show in reality towards each other (most of the time).

Now, I know what some of you are thinking. "So what?" "It's not like there aren't a million other shows just as frisky as Dandadan, if not worse!" "Relatively, it's rather tame." "Why should we care if the characters get naked in this show?"

And yes, while one can argue there's sleazier and more problematic shows than Dandadan out there, I think one of the most problematic element is the reception itself in the western world.

This is a rather old topic, so I'm sure I don't need to explain to you the problems with sexualizing teenagers. Teenagers are a vulnerable and impressionable age group that shouldn't be treated lightly in media. Otherwise, there are risks for that age group, such as making them coveted for age inappropiate persons.

Maybe teens in their underwear aren't a big deal for you, but they are a big deal for me and they're a big deal for anyone who cares about their safety. Anime has very different standards in its country of origin than the standards we have in the rest of the world and we musn't forget about our perspective if we don't want to fall into bad influences.

There is an implicit bias communicated through the use of gratuitous nudity that this is a desirable situation. Yes, usually the characters don't get naked *because they want to*, but it's not like the situations are clearly engineered by the writer in order for them to happen.

Just because the main story has a message doesn't mean it's flawless, nor that authorial intent is all that matters when it comes to reading a story. I, personally, would argue that Dandadan's main story is bogged down by this type of scenes that undermine to an extent its contextual themes of body autonomy.

Take for an example the most infamous episode aa of yet, episode 7. Acro-Silky's story is played *completely* seriously, she's a woman who, in the face of debt, has to sacrifice her own body by prostitution in order to be able to raise her daughter at all. And yet despite her efforts, she's beat anyways and taken the most important thing for her.

Now, imagine that the same light tone used during the abduction scene or the naked alien fight was used during this sequence.

Doesn't feel the same, right?

Why doesn't the rest of the show treat itself as seriously as these scenes? It is a problem, because inconsistency in narrative creates confusing messages, such as "one thing is good, one is bad". Acro-Silky being exploited is tragic, but Momo and co being exposed in front of the entire school is silly.

Now, yes, for those who think I'm being too harsh, I will admit there is probably no such thing as a perfectly cohesive piece of fiction without its own contradictions. I'm sure there's plenty of folks out there able to put two and two together, but I'm certain there even more folks who aren't.

We need to be on the same page for things that matter. While there is plenty of good that has come from this show, such as healthy relationship standards or advocacy for compassion, all that work is for naught if people are still misled by the negative aspects of the show.

I hope this post is useful for somebody, if not by itself at least to contribute to the collective conversation in any meaningful way.

Thanks for reading and I'll see you next time! Peace! ✌️

[the-future-is-chrome]

i honestly hate that fanfiction has a lot of negative connotations. like i really enjoy reading/writing fanfiction and i want to talk to people about that but i cant risk them thinking im some kind of chronically online freakazoid gooner who never leaves their room. i just like putting my favorite characters on silly adventures sometimes

[ultimatefartwizard]

NOT FUCKING AGAIN! THE MUSICAL ( TF EARTHSPARK MESSAGES AND MANDROID'S GENOCIDAL HORRORS EDITION)

Holy shit I am losing my mind... @monocle-teacup you better read this <3 (dead serious though cuz wtf)

Also of course as always, spoilers ahead this time for season 2 of earthspark so dont want it? skedaddle (s2 isnt worth caring about though, trust me)

Also again nobody go witchhunting or harassing anyone, this is discussion of media and someones poor takes on some clear themes in a show.

Okay you're using THE TERRIBLE WRITING OF S2 TO PROVE YOUR LITTLE HORRIBLE SLIMY GENOCIDAL GREASEMAN IN THE RIGHT???? WHY ARE YOU VOUCHING FOR HIM. WHY DO YOU SAY HIS IDEAS ARE RIGHT AUUUUGH-

How you continue to have terrible takes astounds me 💀 You can't be serious man how are you this like,,, braindead? And ignoring all of what S1 is trying to teach even before S2 came out? oh wait.

You choose your attraction of a gross ass man over LITERAL IN YOUR FACE PLOTPOINTS BECAUSE YOU'D RATHER MEATRIDE YOUR BABYGIRL MANDROID OVER EVERYTHING THE SHOW HAS BUILT UP. Not like you probably ever cared to connect any of the dots.

Oh, to help you do that, I have a previous post I made where I pinged you! You should read it before you read anymore, it'll help with what I'm about to preface here. Please READ IT.

Okay, time to dig into literally EVERYTHING ALL OVER AGAIN BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SEEM TO LET GO OF THIS MAN AND HIS OBVIOUS LACK OF HUMANITY IN HIM AND CONTINUE TO SEE SOMETHING THATS NOT THERE. I will start off by saying the quality of the writing for season 2 and season 2's entire disregard for season 1 don't discredit season 1, no matter what nonsense there is. I hate season 2 for all its going for thus far and its just genuinely a waste of my braincells to try watching it again. There are also things not specifically related to mandroid but are also pet peeves that show your lack of attention to detail.

How. Did you miss this. Humans have been living with bots for 30 to 40 years at this point they don't bat an eye at them because THEY THINK THEY'RE JUST SOME BOTS CASUALLY WALKING AROUND. They don't give a fuck about the terrans; only a select few know they are even earth-born bots. Transformers have been living amongst humans casually don't you think they wouldn't give two fucks and know not to gawk at random robots walking around like they just started existing?

You saw the Philadelphia episode (I hope? because you act like you haven't) or really any episode they are just chilling and walking around, you didn't notice nobody gave a damn? What about Optimus, Elita 1, and other bots? Would you randomly gawk at a group of sapient beings walking amongst you who've been there for a lifetime?

No.

They had to hide FROM GHOST not FROM THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE. Ghost would have tried to capture them and imprison them by deeming them a threat for merely existing, not humans as a whole. The fact you miss this entire detail is incredibly sad.

Okay now onto Mandroid stuff because you never stop meatriding him MY GOD

Huh, maybe you need to USE YOUR BRAIN and realize he was not protecting earth. He -thought- he was, because he perceived them as vermin who need to be wiped out and a threat to humanity. Like I said before in my last post DECEPTCONS DO NOT EQUAL ALL OF TRANSFORMERS OH MY GOD. Plus with this season its clear there can't be the same writers on this team. They have sacrificed the story for toymaking opportunities DON'T YOU THINK MAYBE HE'S NOT RIGHT JUST BECAUSE S2 SOMEHOW SAYS THE -CONS IN SPECIFIC (NOT ALL BOTS MY FUCKING GOD)- ARE TO NOT BE TRUSTED AND ARE DANGEROUS? USE YOUR CRANIUM THAT EVOLUTION HAS GIVEN YOU. Mandroid conflated every single transformer with a twisted ideal in his head born out of hate, not from a true sense of danger nor did he separate cons and autobots or unaligned bots in his head from the conglomerate "evil" he thinks they are.

As above so below, you're DEFENDING HIS TERRIBLE GENOCIDAL BEHAVIOR BY BEING LIKE "HE MIGHT HAVE DONE BAD STUFF BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY HE WAS JUST PROTECTING EARTH" over a giant guardian robot who's being mind controlled and had no intention to do this or will of her own. Why are you so adamant on convincing yourself he was a good or commendable man? Where is your basic comprehension of anything in this show at all. HE TRIED TO COMMIT GENOCIDE ON A WHOLE RACE OF BEINGS WHO HAD BEEN COEXISTING ON EARTH FOR YEARS. It's not something you can go 'erm acshually-" on.

He literally killed EVERYONE who was a transformer; even if their death wasn't permanent they still died because he saw them all as a disease needing to be eradicated.

He has no sense of humanity, only hate in his heart and the need to destroy. How do you think he was protecting earth when he had succeeded at murdering an entire population off the face of the earth even if it's only for about 5-10 minutes? HOW ARE YOU THIS BLIND TO MEATRIDE HIM THIS HARD.

I honestly doubt they knew about her, let alone understood the glyphs everywhere. They were just mapping ancient tunnels and figuring it out; Croft also probably forbid anyone from entering due to the DWELLERS, not Terratronus; she was well off course and well protected/hidden by dirt and freaky alien monsters. Even if they somehow DID know, GHOST probably just utilized Terratronus to justify imprisoning dozens of transformers; whether they were cons, neutral, or autobots that didn't want to be part of a government mass incarceration and control program. Mandroid probably didn't give a shit at the moment because he was busy trying to squash literal children like bugs. Shut up about this stupid attempt at the executives making money off of random plot bullshit and toymaking opportunities.

AS STATED IN MY LAST POST: YOU ARE CONFLATING DECEPTICONS WITH ALL TRANSFORMERS, AS MANDROID DID. ONE GROUP DOES NOT EQUAL ALL OF THEM, AND DOES NOT MAKE TRANSFORMERS AS A WHOLE DANGEROUS IF THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO CAUSE TROUBLE. MANDROID SAW ALL TRANSFORMERS AS A THREAT EVEN IF THEY HAD BEEN LIVING WITH HUMANS PEACEFULLY FOR DECADES. YOU ARE HERE SIMPLY REITTERATING A STUPID AND NULL POINT THATS PROVEN WRONG AGAIN AND AGAIN IN S1. His reasoning behind his actions are "we need to get rid of these filthy dangerous vermin who are invading our precious planet." Also the chaos terrans being born evil is a horrible plotpoint and groups being born evil is terrible writing, just like the entirtey of Season 2 because these new writers on the team understand nothing about the show as is. (Yes, most of the writers in s2 never worked on s1)

This one. this one enraged me. This is the most recent post I'd seen about mandroid as of writing (june 8th) and you have SERIOUS AUDACITY to say this. HE KILLED ALL OF THE MALTO BOTS AND TRIED TO KILL ROBBY AND MO; WHAT MAKES YOUR FUCKING MANDROID LOVING SHRUNKEN AND POCKED BRAIN THINK THAT HE WOULD TEAM UP WITH THEM LIKE SOME BUDDY BUDDY ADVENTURE? HE ATTEMPTED AND COMMITTED GENOCIDE, UNETHICAL EXPERIMENTATION, CHILD MURDER, AND MORE.... HE WOULDN'T MAKE JUST """""SMARTASS COMMENTS""" HE'D STRAIGHT UP HATECRIME ALL OF THEM.

I'm not gonna be nice with this last one. You are incredibly media illiterate if not just lacking basic cognition to think he of all people would willingly team up with people he wanted to kill off during season 1. You watched the finale of season 1 and GATHERED NOTHING FROM IT. You, in all your 34 years of life, somehow have not obtained a single gram of "maybe I shouldn't vouch for and defend a person who's xenophobic and wants to commit genocide" despite enjoying writing and HISTORY. HOW ARE YOU ONE TO ENJOY HISTORY YET MAKE NO CONNECTIONS TO ATTROCITIES COMMITTED BY PEOPLE TO WHAT MANDROID IS DOING AND HOW THEY ARE WRONG AND ENTIRLEY UNFORGIVABLE. At this point I believe you to be willfully ignorant to pass off your crush on this man as okay and convince yourself he is right somehow; even going as far as to utilize this new season as an excuse for him.

Your audacity to think he is anything other than a pathetic horrible man with terrible and morally bankrupt goals and actions somehow will be nice to groups of people he hates astounds me to no end. The show gives you all you need to connect the dots and you haven't. I'm aware i'm likely talking to a brick wall because you're likely willingly ignorant to excuse yourself or will never read this but I will call out this nonsense regardless. It comes off as extremely weird and bordering on you just believing in the ideologies he spouts.

I will say this again to make it clear; Mandroid is a stand-in for people who believe in racist and xenophobic ideas, and will stop at nothing to destroy them. The transformers are an allegory for refugee immigrants, and the terrans are first gen decedents. You continuing to believe his lies and defending him just borderlines on you upholding racist ideals. (That might sound deranged af of a claim but considering the context... yeah)

TLDR for lazy people: This fool pinged in this post is claiming a character who ATTEMPTED TO COMMIT GENOCIDE as being in the right somehow with his ideals/actions and not a total morally bankrupt person. Meatriding getting in the way of logic.

-No cheers to you, Wizard and Cupid

[liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiily]

i thoroughly enjoy media without strict moral dictation. i hate preaching, almost sermonic media. i find it far more beautiful when the media lets you make up your own meaning, it adds to the discourse of the piece and you can have deeper discussions with people over whatever issue it discussed.

[ace-robot-has-matcha]

Tell me a show you watched that you think would have been better with a 20 episode season instead of whatever it got. I’ll go first:

Dead boy detectives

Dead end paranormal park

Inside job

Cuphead

Hazbin hotel

Man I sure miss 20 ep seasons :(

[descendant-of-truth]

I think the other reason I don't really get into ships as portrayed by fandom culture is that it seems like the mindset is more like. "I want these characters to be in a Romantic Relationship(TM)" instead of "I want these characters' relationship to be romantic"

What I mean here is that, so often I see pairings enacting romance tropes to the point of heavily altering or downright replacing their original dynamic - as if the people behind it only understand romance as a series of checklists to tick off. Couples like to kiss and sleep in the same bed and flirt with each other, so it doesn't matter who the characters are, if they're a couple then naturally they'll do those things, right??

And that's where the whole thing starts to lose me, because I would assume that the appeal of shipping characters is, y'know... the characters? Rather than just, the idea of a couple? If I'm thinking about how it'd be cool for them to be in love, my first thought is always "so how would they show it," because just like everything else about a person, the answer is going to be different on a case-by-case basis.

Maybe the characters involved aren't really into kissing, but they like arranging date activities. Maybe they aren't committed to the structure of dating at all, and just want to be around each other whenever they can. And even if they are the types to like doing traditionally romantic things, that doesn't suddenly erase whatever else they had going on before they started adding that on top of it.

I'm not saying that the more typical romance tropes and activities are bad, just that they're applied kind of excessively, regardless of whether or not they actually work for the characters involved. I want to see my favorite characters having relationships that are true to who they are, not what the stock depiction of a couple says they should be.

[imheretoreadafic]

One of my biggest pet peeves in the killing Jokee discussion is the whole: "Well, he's not going to stop, and killing him is the only way to stop him!" Like... Just send him to an actual prison instead of Arkham?? We have murderers irl people, and they don't always stop because they're killed. They often stop because... They're in secure prisons.

Now, is escape possible in basically any prison if a person is dedicated enough? Yeah, I actually just watched a documentary about that it was really good, lmao (History's Best Escapes with Morgan Freeman). But at least a federal prison is TRYING and will slow him down, Arkham's security is glitter glue and hope, it ain't holding anyone in.

[pet-shop-of-horror-fan]

"Fiction is not reality! It's not my fault you can't separate them!"

Putting aside the strawmanning of your opposition and the mass oversimplification of the discussion of fiction's influence on reality-

You know who is learning to separate fiction from reality and are often times more influenced by it than most people? Children.

You know what a lot of popular fandoms are based on? Children and family media.

And do fandoms based on children's media keep in mind they are sharing a space made for kids and act accordingly? Rarely, if ever.

[caktusjuice-draws]

We discuss the worst sequel of all time on this minisode of our new podcast FURIGHTENING

[shsl-hubris-guy]

ultimately, the story of UDG is meant to be one of acceptance, and that to end a cycle of violence between opposing ideologies, you have to first understand why both sides of the war have become as jaded as they have. Understanding that there is no black and white, only shades of grey, and that anyone is capable of right in the same way anyone is capable of wrong is critical to making peace. That what separates us is our individuality, not an arbitrary set of social guidelines that categorizes people, as is shown by the separation of kids and adults. Choosing to save and value both in a world that demands separation and a hard stance on right and wrong is the point. And that's also why Toko chooses to save both Komaru and Byakuya in the end, because friends and lovers are equally important and valuable. Community and acceptance is everything, and the refusal to choose one over another is the epitome of the entire game's overarching message. It's an aro dream to see a game that takes a hard stance on the equal validity of platonic/non-romantic relationships to romantic/sexual ones.

(That said, it would've been that much more powerful if they'd actually gone all the way with Toko's gay awakening and had Toko and Byakuya actually yk. Been friends. Or hell, swapped him out for Makoto or Hina as the hostage. And then you get the same message with canon yuri. But that's just me lol)

[giphit]

hate how the mcu has made people interact with media.

saw a yt thumbnail like "what is the point?" talking about thunderbolts.

it's like people are conditioned to view full movies as something that needs justification and a specific place in a wider story. but no!! we can just have movies!! the winter soldier is the best mcu movie by a lot and it works fully standalone.