#I’m seeing a lot of discourse about this
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ineffectualdemon · 2 days ago
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I think some online leftists need to read Interesting Times by Terry Pratchett but believe him about it not being about China because it's not about China
These two sections live in my head rent free:
"‘Look,’ he said, rubbing his forehead. ‘All those people out in the fields, the water buffalo people . . . If you have a revolution it’ll all be better for them, will it?’
‘Of course,’ said Butterfly. ‘They will no longer be subject to the cruel and capricious whims of the Forbidden City.’
‘Oh, that’s good,’ said Rincewind. ‘So they’ll sort of be in charge of themselves, will they?’
‘Indeed,’ said Lotus Blossom.
‘By means of the People’s Committee,’ said Butterfly.
Rincewind pressed both hands to his head.
‘My word,’ he said. ‘I don’t know why, but I had this predictive flash!’
They looked impressed.
‘I had this sudden feeling,’ he went on, ‘that there won’t be all that many water buffalo string holders on the People’s Committee. In fact . . . I get this kind of . . . voice telling me that a lot of the People’s Committee, correct me if I’m wrong, are standing in front of me right now?’
‘Initially, of course,’ said Butterfly. ‘The peasants can’t even read and write.’
‘I expect they don’t even know how to farm properly,’ said Rincewind, gloomily. ‘Not after doing it for only three or four thousand years.’
‘We certainly believe that there are many improvements that could be made, yes,’ said Butterfly. ‘If we act collectively.’
‘I bet they’ll be really glad when you show them,’ said Rincewind."
Pgs 198-199 of the Kindle edition
And
"‘You see those armies over there?’ he said.
The buffalo holder concentrated his gaze.
‘Yes,’ he decided.
‘They’re fighting for you.’ The man did not appear moved by this. The water buffalo burped gently.
‘Some want to see you enslaved and some want you to run the country, or at least to let them run the country while telling you it’s you doing it really,’ said Rincewind. ‘There’s going to be a terrible battle. I can’t help wondering . . . What do you want?’
The buffalo holder absorbed this one for consideration, too. And it seemed to Rincewind that the slowness of the thought process wasn’t due to native stupidity, but more to do with the sheer size of the question. He could feel it spreading out so that it incorporated the soil and the grass and the sun and headed on out into the universe.
Finally the man said:
‘A longer piece of string would be nice.’"
P 227 of the Kindle edition
This this very relevant to a lot of leftist discourse bullshit I see everyday
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kaypeace21 · 3 days ago
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Ooo i just saw ur youtube vid and ig u were an og byler shipper so I am curious how was it like back then
Guuuuuuurl …you do not want to know . 🤣
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As much as I love the fandom; some of the discourse can be taxing. I remember my YouTube was hacked/stolen for 5 months, and they deleted videos, and posted horrible stuff on it . It was a lot. Plus, I got plenty of people who just made up lies or purposely misinterpreted things I said to discredit or smear me. Obviously I have posts that I don’t agree with now , or that could have been phrased more tactfully and sensitively . Definitely matured and became more leveled headed , nuanced , and tactful with how I analyze and speak of media now . But unfortunately, in the past, I definitely took the bait a few times with the trolls XD
yeah… it was a crazy time . St was my first fandom (so I was not prepared for the smears, all the homophobia, or ableist insults about me being autistic either 😅). But , I’ve grown a thicker skin because of it. Right now I just have side blogs for analyzing other shows - cause frankly I don’t want all the bullies to hate-stalk my new pages .But yeah, I’m taking a break from st until s5 comes out. Maybe I’ll analyze the trailer - we’ll see. :)
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Earthspark Analysis
S1 Ep3 - Moo-ving In
- Bee is speeding, great start!
- Okay jumping the train was actually sick.
- Bee is so tired of this stuff already.
- THERE’S A CALF!!! She makes me miss my own babies back on the farm!
- Bee scaring the baby >:(
- Not Thrash imitating the transformation sound
- Okay yeah transformation is definitely instinctual and not base book.
- Bee’s eyebrows do look like that.
- Alright, Bee is definitely struggling with the reintegration. He wants to be back with the other autobots, badly in fact. It’s making him struggle with this mission because he wants to rush it so badly. Which makes sense, I would want to be back with my friends as well if I were gone for so long. However, I don’t think taking a note from Megatron’s book is going to do well here.
- “Big bumbling know it all” Lmao
- I would like to preface and say that is is clear Twitch is trying to take Bumblebee’s advice despite not exactly liking him yet.
- Bumblebee getting startled by a cow is very funny.
- Okay Elita has a much better view on how to lead! Knowing your team is important. The problem here however is the terrans might not know themselves well either.
- The kids being cute is actually adorable and again I would kill a man for these four.
- Bee has a valid reason to be mad about the walkie talkies I feel.
- Oh stars a family game night
- Bee is just STRUGGLING, I wonder if this is from lack of contact and communication
- Ah yes, discourse
- Oh, there’s the snap
- Yes, tell Bee off, I too get angry when people disrespect my cow (I love you Millie)
- Flying through the ceiling because you’re angry, valid I suppose, though I am concerned about the property damage.
- Not the dad still going
- I love that the terrans are child-like, the swap from being angry to being excited about something is certainly a child like thing to do. Distractions might not be good all the time but they can help you figure out feelings with being influenced about your emotions. Stressful event happens, offer a distraction to calm emotions, return to evaluate.
- Twitch struggling to change back, oh I love it
- Optimus you little glitch with that voicemail tone
- Okay I love Dot for the comment, “If you figure out how to get them to listen let me know how” not only is she sharing the fact she struggles with the same issue but she’s validating Bee as well, it’s something he most definitely needs right now.
- Awe, his little smile! Bee’s so cute
- If anything happens to these cows I will go feral
- Bee finally understanding that his teaching style may not be the best way of going about things does wonders for me.
- Maltobots!!
- Calling the cows doggies <3
- Bee can lift a hay roll. With ease. Can he fucking juggle cows? Because that hay roll definitely weighs about the same as one of those cows. Which is about 1200 pounds. I get it giant alien robot but still >^>
- Went from Fluffy Ears being stuck to Twitch being stuck, I hadn’t even considered the fact that pedes could get stuck like that.
- Is this train foreshadowing. Is that what this is. That’s such a baller move
- Corn
- Ah yes character development as you’re about to be crushed by a train
- Not the train pun
- Also love the way Bee is holding Fluffy Ears
- Spin hug!!! I love spin hugs
- Bee is family, I love that <3
- Family game night take two!
- Bro just slid Optimus, that’s wild
Characters:
Twitch: She’s definitely gaining character, that I’m happy about. Over all I see a very big need for development, she seems to doubt herself a lot though and that shows with her transformation troubles.
Thrash: I didn’t get much from him this episode in all honesty but it looks like the next episode is about him.
Bumblebee: In the beginning of the episode it’s quite obvious to me that Bee struggles with familiarity, he didn’t seem comfortable on Earth and he didn’t seem comfortable with the Maltos. The definitely changes though even in the beginning when he’s working on getting advice from the others. It’s subtle in the beginning but no change in immediate. By the end of the episode he definitely seems much more relaxed, at ease with his situation and willing to put in the effort now that he understands how to do things, and now that he sees the Maltos as something more than a job.
Footnotes:
- Wanna preface and say I’m sorry this took so long, before I started this I began some training and it took more effort than I thought along with the craziness of the holiday season.
- Now, I don’t have much to really say but it’s wonderful we get to see the terrans act like children, it’s wonderful that they think how kids do. It’s amazing they don’t have experience because they shouldn’t. I’m loving each minor detail in this, can’t wait to see the Decepticons and I especially can’t wait to see the villain development of Mandroid.
Earthspark Analysis
How this will work:
- Starting from this post there will be a series of reblogs.
- Each will begin with the episode number/title.
- Important characters will be given an analysis based on their behavior/decisions/choice of words.
- I may also focus on background characters at times should I see anything interesting.
- I will also focus on other things, for example, if there are fights scenes I will likely make comments.
What you should expect:
I am by no means an expert and this is solely for fun! If you don’t like/agree with what I think that’s okay! In the end we’re all just having fun and this is just for the silly!
Things to watch out for:
I can be oblivious at times! Tell me if I missed something you think is important and I’ll try to round back and take a gander!
🩵 Now let’s get this show on the road! 🩵
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inthedreamatorium1 · 7 months ago
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I’ve been thinking a lot about Colin’s entrapment line and wrote a novel about it, whoops.
I know a lot of people are upset about it. On the surface level, it seems so out of the blue because HE was the one who suggested he help her find a husband. HE was the one that invited her over without a chaperone. HE was the one who kissed her when he knew he shouldn’t. HE was the one who kissed her a second time and initiated their first sexual encounter. So yeah, that line seems so out of character given all of this.
But then I started thinking more about it and dug a little deeper. This line comes after him saying he was a man of honor and acknowledged they had sex. He knows there are consequences there (ie. pregnancy). He knows he didn’t pull out because in that moment, there was no reason for him to do so. They were going to be married. Her winding up pregnant from that encounter wouldn’t matter in the long run because why would it?
Colin is SO angry and hurt and confused (rightfully so). Of course his mind is going to think the worst and in that moment, it did. He has spent days running over every single interaction and conversation they’ve had. He’s doubting everything. Her sincerity, her friendship, her respect, her love. Every single one of us would do the same thing. He sees himself as a protector first and foremost. So yes, he let himself think that Penelope purposefully had sex with him knowing that he would be obligated to marry her, no matter what. He let himself think she was using him and his family to protect herself from any harm if the truth came out. He knew that she knew he would never break their engagement and so yeah, he thought the worst. I mean, why wouldn’t he?
Do I think he regretted it? No, not in that moment. I think he still felt that way until they met on the street. He’s still very hostile with her (rightfully and understandably so)“What were you thinking? Why would you write these things about me and my family?” She pushes back and he finally listened to her. Not just her words but her sincerity and the way she didn’t justify any of her actions. How she apologized for it and acknowledged she was wrong. He listened.
Penelope exclaiming loudly and passionately that she loves him dissolved all of the negative thoughts he was feeling in regards to her trapping and using him. His biggest fear snapped in half. The torment he was feeling that it was all a lie dissipated. It’s why he grabbed her and kissed her so passionately. I’m sure a lot of it was relief. He was never that harsh with her again. Yes, he was still angry but he never doubted her intentions nor her love for him again. His conflict for the rest of the episode going into episode 8 was trying to sort out his place and role in her life and trying to come to terms with his feelings of inadequacy and insecurity.
So yeah, the entrapment line sucks and can be read as out of character given everything that’s happened in the previous episodes. But I think we need to allow him the grace to process everything he’s been feeling. Penelope did.
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inejqhafa · 7 months ago
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the scene where anthony tells kate that he wants to go to India so that their child knows their history and that he does too is so important especially for brown girls who are so often told to focus on integrating into their new households and forget their family once they get married. it really shows how much he values all parts of kate’s identity and who she is beyond just being viscountess, a wife, a future mother, etc. and then kate’s reaction of being fully and completely overwhelmed because she could never have imagined that he would be the one to bring it up, let alone being there for the birth makes me so emotional 😭
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atopvisenyashill · 6 months ago
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cregan’s issue is the same as corlys which is ya kno never seeing his girl heir as an heir period. so just like corlys brings marilda’s boys to rhaenyra to legitimize instead of pushing for baela or rhaena to inherit, cregan decides to remarry for a THIRD time even though he has a granddaughter and SEVERAL daughters who could inherit. they’re perfectly happy to bow to a woman when it’s convenient, when it fits into their own honor codes and benefits them, but when it comes to their own families, their own legacy, only a man is good enough. when it comes to the it it’s like - aegon the younger has BEEN heir, and was already named the next king by the time cregan gets there, BY corlys, who goes along with the green style inheritance of saying aegon iii is aegon ii’s successor through daemon’s line, likely imo bc he just wants the war to stop and thinks getting rhaenyra’s last son on the throne is good enough (bc he doesn’t get it!! it’s why he pushes rhaenyra to name men over women with better claims during the dance; he’s not about disrupting the system, he only supports rhaenyra bc it benefits him!).
baela isn’t being denied the crown because not a single person including baela herself thinks she’s a viable contender and that’s the result of aegon ii being the last monarch & adult targaryen alive in the capital, and not anything cregan or to some extent, corlys, does; jaehaerys’ ideology is what the greens are fighting for and jaehaerys’ ideology is what wins and the person to blame for both jaehaera & baela not being viable contenders for the throne is aegon ii himself. but jeyne arryn is right there!! too bad it doesn’t matter, bc in a situation where cregan and corlys actually do have the power to go “i have the ability to just support my girl heir” they choose a boy. it’s just like cat says it’s just like borros lord misogynist himself says - a daughter is nice but ahhh a son. a son is more important!
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clawsextended · 2 months ago
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in my perfect world everyone makes so many lesbian muses the men then have to deal with the exact same behavior when every single post ever written isn’t about dick.
#CLAWS RETRACTED.#[real talk: I’m a lesbian transmasc little enby guy. but my gender? is lesbian. it’s how I explain it. my attraction to women is a part of#my innate gender. that’s just how it is and the two things inform one another. heteronormativity is still so alive and now everyone can put#it under progressive little labels where the character is bisexual but everything that’s focused on for miles is the hetcoded shit. it’s a#cool little thing people do now. it went from when I was a kid and ‘there’s no such thing as bi you’re just confused’ to ‘everyone is bi#because it gives me points but I will never meaningfully observe the queer aspect of that identity and it can make me seem comfortable with#queer identities’. it’s lip service so much of the time. and I never ever ever say you’re only valid if you write bi characters in a#queercoded relationship. bisexuality is forever valid always even if you’ve NEVER been in a queer relationship. but this is writing and#real bisexual people (I’m not even bi I’m literally a lesbian) have experiences irl that make them feel shitty#when they see them boiled down to shallow. a lot in the same way I get upset when I see lesbian relationships brushed off or ignored in#spite of my own excitement toward the ship. MY POINT IS that lesbians are completely ignored by this point and I can say this both irl and#on here because when you live a life that excludes men from your romantic space you’re basically illegal. it drives me fucking insane. the#way anyone can make a fucking whitebread ass man on this site and their inbox will be exploding but you make a lesbian and you have to pad#quietly around because from jump you’re already worried about how people will perceive you and you KNOW they won’t be immediately welcoming.#this is an irl thing in such a big way and I’m a NEW YORKER. but the fact that this exists in the rpc? truly I miss when we just wrote and#enjoyed things and this wasn’t a cesspit of discourse instead of an actual creative community. like. I went to college to study boring#theses that couldn’t keep my attention. I slogged through litcrit theory. do I love it? yes. but some of yall really just wanna be on#debatebro YouTube and not in the actual rpc. it’s wild. everyone’s a philosopher but no one wants to meaningfully engage. and if they do#they want to in either bad faith or basically hardheaded ignorance about an issue. someone’s 2 seconds from rping destiny.#swear to fucking god if I see one person make an asm.ngold joke I will cry.]
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befickleforever · 3 months ago
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I know there’s a lot of discussion right now but I find it just so tragic that someone so young has gone when they had a whole life ahead of them, where they could’ve made amends and done better, and got clean. It didn’t have to end like this. Addiction is a complicated disease.
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whoreiaki-kakyoin · 1 year ago
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Some people have aggressively stupid takes on censorship, fictional content, kink…. But then also in irl sex and relationships, too, and it’s exhausting. If you are a grown adult wringing your hands about how you could never date anyone two years younger than you or getting your panties in a twist over regular safe consenting sex practices/acting like safe and consensual k.ink is inherently abusive…. Then your brain has been so thoroughly rotted by online puritan discourse and you need to get off of twitter and experience the real world. Genuinely. Hope this helps.
#and there is a difference between having an understanding of these things and avoiding certain k.inks because of personal preference/trauma#but acting as if people who participate in and enjoy these things safely and privately are ‘freaks’ or ‘disgusting’ or immoral#is not the same thing#also please recognize the rhetoric you are parroting for fucks sake#because calling people ‘freaks’ and ‘degenerates’ and wanting to police anything sexual… not the take you think it is#this sort of thing actually enables and leads to things like a lot of sodomy laws in the us that existed pre obergefell v hodges#which classified any sex deviant from your standard piv penetrative sex as unlawful and immoral#setting a very dangerous precedent about what people can and cannot do in their own home#there are so many reasons that it pisses me off seeing these things but with the state of things in so many places right now#it baffles me when chronically online bitches swallow puritan rhetoric without a second thought and don’t see the writing on the wall#in an era of book bans and drag bans and the demonization of the lgbtq community at large#and with a Supreme Court that has shown time and again that they put their personal biases ahead of the safety and rights of constituents#I do not know how people do not recognize#this sort of reactionary shit will ALWAYS hurt marginalized people first. respectability politics will not save you when they turn on you#okay send tweet I’m just annoyed#laur speaks!#I better not get some dumbass shit on this post I am tired I am chronically and mentally ill and having a hell of a semester.#not looking for discourse. I do not have time. get blocked argue with the wall read a fucking book and learn some shit while you’re at it.
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mishtershpock · 9 months ago
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#not to sound like a broken record#i know this has already been talked about a lot in current fandom discourse#but all the tommy love also comes from a place of#misogyny (buck’s m/f relationships failed bc the women weren’t good enough. but his first m/m is perfect and destined and tommy is god)#(even though we know next to nothing about them as a couple. cough 1 kiss and 1 failed date cough cough)#and biphobic concepts (buck’s only relationship/partner that is worth shipping and love and fandom time is the m/m one)#(if he’s with a woman he’s not worth our time? the relationship/partner isn’t worth our time. right?)#some people kinda sounding like the conservative haters right now#oliver stark’s voice shouting from afar: he isn’t gay! he is bisexual! he still likes women!#some people like to celebrate bi buck (as we should) but then erase his previous gfs#in favour of this 1 man he’s shared literally 4 scenes with. okay#<- <- <- i drafted this like 6 hours before that interview came out. ollie came to back me up with the ‘he still likes women’ lmao#him dating a guy now does not erase or dismiss his previous m/f relationships or that he’s still into women#one final comment. any time buck got with a girl it was ‘they need to break up immediately’#‘she’s not right for him’#he’s with his first guy and it’s ’they should be endgame’#‘they’re perfect together’#huh?? one. we barely know tommy/them together#two. what exactly makes them endgame material? bc they’re both men? cough biphobic misogyny fetishization cough#three. it would be objectively hilarious if he realises his sexuality and within 2 weeks is dating a guy for the first time#and then that guy ends up being his endgame forever partner. lmaoooo that would be so dumb sawry#not to mention it would kinda lean into the biphobia and misogyny mentioned above#in that it would suggest that his problem with finding love previously was… women#and this problem is now magically fixed because… man#four. not to be a buddie endgame truther but if all the vocal support means this is what we get instead#instead of Them. i’m out see ya bye bye#i am sooooo reading way too much into this but oh well
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towards-toramunda · 1 year ago
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(As a person who uses she/they pronouns it feels weird when people get viscerally angry at people who don’t use exclusively they/them for Ashton. Like ashton’s pronouns are he/them. It’s fine for people to use he/him or they/them for Ashton, and they aren’t disrespecting them by using “he” in a sentence. I get wanting to hear they/them used more often for them [I definitely do and will get annoyed by people acting like he’s not nonbinary], but like… saying “he” or “him” for Ashton is still valid and fine and doesn’t make a player at the table (!) or person on tumblr a bad person for using a pronoun he has in their preferred pronouns.)
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hero-dualies-pog · 7 months ago
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i think i finally get all those “maybe we could do with a little less shipping in fandom. this is not a complaint but a cry for help” aromantic posts
#>be me#>aro#>find a piece of work that speaks to me deeply#>the character dynamics are fascinating and i want to see more of it#>check out the fandom#>half of it is shipping#>not only that but there is also a fuck ton of absolutely rancid ship discourse#>so shippers act like they are absolutely persecuted for shipping x ship#>see the absolutely batshit take of “seeing the characters as siblings is bad because they act toxic to each other-#obviously the better interpretation is toxic yaoi”#>also see the equally as bad take “these characters are BASICALLY BROTHERS and if you ship them IT’S BASICALLY INCEST”#>they are not canonically lovers nor siblings#>they just exist in the same space#>… why#>it’s like wanting to study bugs in a place with no bugs. so you import the bugs. like yeah it’s harmless but why did you go to the trouble#of bringing the bugs here when there aren’t any bugs and people aren’t here for bugs. instead of idk. going to a place with bugs??#>the shippers are complaining about how people hate their ship and there’s not enough of it (at least half of the fandom ships them)#>not a whole lot of people but a few hate on the ship and like 6x the amount of haters immediately start screaming at the haters#>the homestuck fandom handled this better. please guys#>people may not like your ship. block. move on#>people may ship something that you see as an absolute insult to the themes of the work. block. move on#>and like yeah i get that this is the singular ship in the entire fandom so there’s gonna be more of it#>but i am starving for purely platonic content. please.#>i do not want to continue having to willfully misinterpret romantic/familial content as platonic#>i’m going back to the “homestuck fandom handled this better” point actually#>like there is an honest to god blog called “this ship is better than davekat”#>and i can guarantee that if i tried to make an equivalent blog in this fandom i would be killed instantly#>generally it’s not a great place to be as a platonic relationships enjoyer which sucks because the canon material is cool as shit#>the only thing i can think of to do is wait like a year to see if this situation resolves itself#>and hope to god that there’s more platonic content by then
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whalehouse1 · 1 year ago
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Jason went mad and killed those people due to pit madness.
Jason made a conscientious choice to kill those people and the pit doesn’t cause madness.
Me: I go with whatever I’m vibing with that day or what seems funnier to me at a particular moment. He didn’t shove that guy off the roof though, not that I would have blamed him.
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yannfredericks · 9 months ago
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being online rn is such a fucking nightmare oh my god!!!
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dangerous-advantage · 2 years ago
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thinking about how raph, april, and mikey are less focused on by the fandom than donnie and leo, the only two main characters in rottmnt with white voice actors
#to be clear this is not a “callout” nor am i trying to inspire discourse/attack anybody#it’s just something i’ve been thinking about for a while that i feel deserves more... ig recognition? by the fandom at large#like i know a part of it is definitely the shows’ fault and their own unspoken biases#but i can’t turn a blind eye when i see human versions of the turtles that consistently have see and lee be lighter skinned#even if they are all represented as poc#like to reiterate: this is not a call-out#it could absolutely just be the niche of the fandom that i find myself in (in which this is a massive self report)#and i absolutely need to do better as well!!#but i haven’t seen this talked about as much as i feel it should#esp with april— i mean i already am aware about the fandom bias toward male characters#but it makes it doubly hard for her character which is a shame seeing as she is a queen#+ my fav representation of april in the entirety of the tmnt canon so far#i understand with mikey that it could be excused due to the fact that his character was focused on less#but raph? he has sooo much good characterization that i often see given to leo in fic/fanart#like i said: this is a lot more nuanced than what i’ve talked about#and i am by no means perfect#i just think we as a fandom should at the very least recognize this aspect of ourselves#idk i’m definitely not the best person to be talking about this#but i’ve been turning it over in my head for a while so i figured i might as well just. say it#rottmnt#rottmnt meta#racism#tw racism#internal bias#if anybody has something to add feel free#just like. be civil please? like i don’t think anyone is doing it on purpose (obviously)#just something to be aware of
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brjeauregard · 1 year ago
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It’s wild to me how many people are angry at Orym for “letting” Laudna lose control and for telling Keyleth about Imogen’s mom. It feels like people are conveniently forgetting everything he’s been through in favor of coddling Imogen and Laudna. Don’t get me wrong, I love Imogen and Laudna and think they’re great characters, but they aren’t the only ones with trauma.
Sure Orym could have stepped in and stopped Laudna from killing Bor’Dor, but Liam confirmed on 4SD that Orym was going to kill him regardless. All of the pain and anger that Laudna felt from Bor’Dor’s betrayal was also felt by Orym, coupled with the fact that he was facing a member of the group that killed his husband and father. To say that Orym is blinded by his anger and not capable of seeing the situation objectively is saying that there are two sides to consider. The Ruby Vanguard are killing people indiscriminately and everyone knows that Ludinus can’t be trusted. Was it selfish if Orym to want Delilah back? Yes, but you also can’t ignore his very valid reason for wanting the power to stop Ludinus.
On the Imogen issue, Keyleth has every right to know about the people she’s trusting to help her and her people. A lot of people have already pointed this out, but her reaction would have been so much worse if she found out about Imogen’s connection to the Liliana from an outside source. It’s completely valid for Imogen to want her mom to be good and to try to justify her actions, but doing so in front of Keyleth and Orym, two people who have lost loved ones to the Ruby Vanguard, wasn’t the smartest choice. You can’t defend your enemy and then be surprised when your allies don’t fully trust you. Orym has very clear in the past that he doesn’t want to hear Imogen offer excuses for the Ruby Vanguard or defend their actions. He can love and care about Imogen while also holding her at an arms length in case she does turn on them.
These characters are complex, flawed, and deeply traumatized. They’re not always going to make the morally correct decision, but their choices almost always have a reasonable explanation behind them. You don’t have to agree with every decision they make, but a lot of people conveniently ignore very valid character motivations whenever those characters do something that hurts or upsets their favorite character.
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